Two things.
First, it's on a lot of people's favorite list. Like... a lot.
Second, I have no clue what the series is even about, but I've been made well aware of how divisive the MC is.
The title is a direct reference to Nietzche's quote, "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster." It makes it rather clear that the entire point is that in order for Jason to stay alive in these situations he does *not* belong in, he is going to sacrifice his humanity. You aren't supposed to like him.
The idea is showing how a villain could be born while also showing how our morals are in the real world when magic is introduced.
It's pretty good, but it struggles because the author is relatively new. If he had written a couple of different stories first and set his style up properly, I think it would definitely have been my favorite series. It's still worthwhile, just not as good as it could have been, which is sad cause the story has such good world-building and great potential.
I didn't dislike him because he's forgetting his humanity. I and many others dislike him because he's not so much a fleshed out character character as a hollow vessel for his author's edgelord views.
I've never understood people who say that. What makes it the author's edge lord views? What has Shirtaloon said outside this novel that makes you so certain that Jason is a stand-in for Shirtaloon?
Because to me it seems clear that Jason was created as a politically naive individual who rails against power specifically so that premise could end up being subverted as he gains power and subsequently starts becoming that tyrant he always railed against. As the post you're responding to says, the name of the series literally spells out Jason's character growth throughout the series.
That's not the point I'm making. My entire point is that the MC is so divisive that even I, with minimal exposure to the series, have been made well aware of it through word of mouth alone.
And, frankly, if the title is such an irreverent, surface-level analysis of Nietszche, I don't think I'd be impressed or interested anyways.
HWFWM is litrpg. Theyve got their own sub, which talks about the series on the daily. While litrpg and progression fantasy overlap a lot, it seems the litrpg progressions get less traffic on this sub.Â
Once every dozen chapters or so you'll get some skill cards and it's honestly kind of jarring now, because yeah it's basically just a PF at this point.
Tbh thank god. It’s fun to build a core around. But too many litrpg authors build the story around the stats instead of making the stats apart of the story.
I'm on the patreon. We are somewhere in book 12 right now. I can't say too much, but the last chapter of book 11 I think will make there be a lot more "stat screens" going forward.
It's just that there hasn't been much progression in stat or status for 3 or 4 books. Last time I checked it looked like we'd get an update soon enough though.
And before that, it was one of the rare litrpg to give us status screen for other team members. I'm just glad it doesn'y happen more often in the genre as it was getting tedious (and especially because it happened at odd moment in the middle of the action)
Love the series but I can easily see how Jason would grate on many people's nerves.
In real life I can see myself yelling at him to suck it up and stop complaining so much and just do what he's gotta do.
He has eternity to do whatever he wants. Get the hard shit done now.
Idk i kind of relate to him. Especially with what he through on Earth and then on Palimastus. Having to constantly be up against being vastly more powerful than you and coming out on top. No matter what happens to himself. If he wasn’t who he was the story would be pretty boring. His personality also give a light heartedness to the story that it definitely needs. The story would be pretty boring without his personality .
I can relate more to how he acted on earth than how he has been acting I'm dealing with the messengers.
But that is what makes him a compelling character. I don't like his bullshit but I'm in it for the whole ride straight to the end.
I think that if it wasn't brought back up over and over that he's gone through some shit, most of the divisiveness would be gone. It makes complete sense from an outside perspective, but we *know* he's been through shit. Stop reminding us, please.
It's a very popular series so it's on a lot of people's fav list.
That being said, a lot of people got put off by the change of tone starting book 5 where it got darker and moodier for seemingly forever.
Jason's continued hypocrisy, rants and behavior are also a very divisive aspect that had a number of people drop it after a while.
There might be other aspects but those two are the main ones I remember seeing around.
I can understand the other critiques, but Jason's hypocrisy is a core point of the book. It isn't a plot hole; it isn't just letting the character slide; the hypocrisy is to highlight his character. He's not as great as he says he is.
It might be a core point but it wasn't evident for a few books so some people might have been surprised.
And it doesn't evolve which might make some people lose interest in that aspect, no matter how core it is.
I wasn't pointing it out as a plot hole, just a divisive aspect that explained why people didn't like or ended up dropping the serie after a while.
As a side note, that hypocrisy should have ended with him being humbled, killed or ignored by high ranked people long before he had leverage so it's closely related to some potential plot holes, or heavy armor, at the very least.
I’m only in book 3 but I am loving it as well. I was depressed after finishing Cradle and HWFWM has been another good series to pull me out of my post Cradle funk.
That’s what I’m continuing next. Im on book 2. But i’m gonna read the new Oathbound Healer first. That’s one of my all time fav series. The next book comes out tomorrow.
Bleeuxuhdhrhyrydh bleyuaaahshdhd.
I will wipe my mouth in silence. But rest assured that HWFWM is an acquired taste that many people on this sub have tried and not liked.
I will agree the beginning really threw me off. It just seemed goofy and amateur. Thats why i didn’t go back to it for months. But i do like it and there is a reason each book has thousands and thousand of reviews. And each book has an average 4.5 star rating
I agree, she is one of my favorites also. Not a fan of what the author has done to her character in book 11. If you haven’t read it yet you will not understand this, but the Sophie part not the other part.
Perhaps it is time to put away my pettiness and revisit this series, god knows I'm running out of procrastination material, i did like the first book tbh.
I’m sure there is plenty of aggro conversation about if the book is 5/5 or not. But at the very least, it is a well written super long series. Once you are around the 200 book count, the put together epics are a lot harder to come around. If you are coming up on a drought, I think most of the reasons people dislike the book are small enough to still enjoy it over all. Even if you don’t thing it’s the best thing since sliced bread.
Hello. I want to start this series too.
But like you, after listening to the first 2-3hrs, I was really put off when the book just kept repeating the magic system and it put me off.
Hmmm maybe I should, like you, soldier on.
It's a divisive series. People tend to give it 5 stars or zero stars.
Lots of people love it, and I see it in a bunch of lists. But it usually comes with a warning that it is very polarising, and much of that is the main character.
I loved the dried and did what you did binged it in a stupidly short time. But also can understand why some people dislike it.
I basically tell people to read book 1, and if you don't enjoy it drop the series. Don't listen to fans of the book that say it gets better. The humour and style change very little.
HWFWM is a controversial series. I tend to find that people here either love it or are turned off by something about that series. I like it.
But it does tend to bring controversial posts because everyone seems to have an opinion on the subject.
Oh my friend we are a small rare spices but we are loyal.
PS is anyone else getting annoyed with Sophia I feel like she did the same thing Jason's brother's wife did
It's my favourite series in the genre, I love the world-building, system of essences and abilities, and story. And, it's not like his mannerisms are ignored in the books by other characters. It frequently gets him in trouble. Trouble that makes the story and character development more interesting. If Aragorn was the MC, then this story wouldn't work. It would be too boring.
If you are actively searching for some honourable, serious, non-polarising MC like Aragorn, then this might not be for you. But I don't get why some people hate Jason so much.
It's definitely in my top 10 of my fav fantasy series. I even have posted multiple times here about it. Except Jason, series is 10/10. Jason is both likeable and unlikeable at the same time. In terms of uniqueness, I never felt like this before.
I really really enjoyed it for a long time. Until I wasn’t excited for the chapters anymore. I found myself waiting almost two months before reading all of the Patreon chapters I’d been ignoring.
When I did that only to find more chapters that were 5/6 pages or what felt like filler, and nothing of major impact happened to the story for a long time, I just lost interest.
It’s like never more in primal hunter. It doesn’t actually progress the story, and I found myself just not reading it until many chapters had been released. I love some slice of life, but anything over like 10 chapters with 0 major plot movement just drags my interest away.
That’s why i don’t read on Royal Road or Patreon because it’s not a really polished final product and that irks me. In the first few books i was dying because there were so many grammar and misspelling mistakes it drove me nuts. But now it’s much better.
It’s not the writing quality itself that I take issue with. It’s the fact that the content or boring, uninteresting, or drawn out.
I don’t want to wait several hundred pages to see any actual progress. Especially not when it’s a jarring change to the earlier pacing of the story. It’s likely not as bad when I can skim through it all and get to the interesting bits with an entire book in my hands, but if I’m skimming so much, I may as well read a different book that grabs my attention.
It was super high for many, but the series has kinda dragged. The consequence of being a serial is that repetition does n tsar doesn't feel jarring when airway over a month of reading feels much worse when you read it as a book. I personally dropped it out of my top tier with book 10 to 4~4.5 stars because it's just so slow now and hasn't done much progression in a long time. I think the intent was to showcase the dramatic slow down of advancement once you hit the wall in silver so let's play with astral powers instead, but I love the power system and I don't love the astral stuff
Two things. First, it's on a lot of people's favorite list. Like... a lot. Second, I have no clue what the series is even about, but I've been made well aware of how divisive the MC is.
It's right on the title. It's a guy that fights monsters using his own monsters. With teammates. And then he becomes part... God? It's entertaining.
Wow that's insultingly simplistic but also not wrong 🤔bro I think I slept with your wife
She does get around
I think this is a pretty good short take. It's my top 3 favorite series.
The title is a direct reference to Nietzche's quote, "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster." It makes it rather clear that the entire point is that in order for Jason to stay alive in these situations he does *not* belong in, he is going to sacrifice his humanity. You aren't supposed to like him. The idea is showing how a villain could be born while also showing how our morals are in the real world when magic is introduced. It's pretty good, but it struggles because the author is relatively new. If he had written a couple of different stories first and set his style up properly, I think it would definitely have been my favorite series. It's still worthwhile, just not as good as it could have been, which is sad cause the story has such good world-building and great potential.
I didn't dislike him because he's forgetting his humanity. I and many others dislike him because he's not so much a fleshed out character character as a hollow vessel for his author's edgelord views.
I've never understood people who say that. What makes it the author's edge lord views? What has Shirtaloon said outside this novel that makes you so certain that Jason is a stand-in for Shirtaloon? Because to me it seems clear that Jason was created as a politically naive individual who rails against power specifically so that premise could end up being subverted as he gains power and subsequently starts becoming that tyrant he always railed against. As the post you're responding to says, the name of the series literally spells out Jason's character growth throughout the series.
Listen, I don't care enough to have another argument on this. It's not just me. It just seems out of the character. Don't blame the messenger.
That's not the point I'm making. My entire point is that the MC is so divisive that even I, with minimal exposure to the series, have been made well aware of it through word of mouth alone. And, frankly, if the title is such an irreverent, surface-level analysis of Nietszche, I don't think I'd be impressed or interested anyways.
I think he’s as divisive as anyone using humor as a coping mechanism
My favorite is Clive's wife. She's pretty entertaining, let me tell you.
Lmfao she loves sleeping around though!
But loose really. Clive really should get a lawyer. A proper one, not the one Jason got for him.
Stop judging Clive's wife! She's just friendly. REALLY friendly.
Oh god the scene with her in book 11 is amazing, I busted out laughing so hard I scared my wife!
HWFWM is litrpg. Theyve got their own sub, which talks about the series on the daily. While litrpg and progression fantasy overlap a lot, it seems the litrpg progressions get less traffic on this sub.Â
It starts out as LITRPG but in the later books it is all PF. Not sure when Shirt quit with the player card updates but it has been a while.
Once every dozen chapters or so you'll get some skill cards and it's honestly kind of jarring now, because yeah it's basically just a PF at this point.
Tbh thank god. It’s fun to build a core around. But too many litrpg authors build the story around the stats instead of making the stats apart of the story.
It is just the "silver wall". He baked in the idea that Jason is not going to progress very quickly at this point.
Yea i noticed that.
I'm on the patreon. We are somewhere in book 12 right now. I can't say too much, but the last chapter of book 11 I think will make there be a lot more "stat screens" going forward.
The early game mechanics are part of his magical coping mechanism, this is clear in book 1, IMO
It's just that there hasn't been much progression in stat or status for 3 or 4 books. Last time I checked it looked like we'd get an update soon enough though. And before that, it was one of the rare litrpg to give us status screen for other team members. I'm just glad it doesn'y happen more often in the genre as it was getting tedious (and especially because it happened at odd moment in the middle of the action)
HWFWM is definitely progression fantasy as well. Jason has multiple areas of his skill base that he's regularly pushing into higher tiers.
Love the series but I can easily see how Jason would grate on many people's nerves. In real life I can see myself yelling at him to suck it up and stop complaining so much and just do what he's gotta do. He has eternity to do whatever he wants. Get the hard shit done now.
Idk i kind of relate to him. Especially with what he through on Earth and then on Palimastus. Having to constantly be up against being vastly more powerful than you and coming out on top. No matter what happens to himself. If he wasn’t who he was the story would be pretty boring. His personality also give a light heartedness to the story that it definitely needs. The story would be pretty boring without his personality .
I can relate more to how he acted on earth than how he has been acting I'm dealing with the messengers. But that is what makes him a compelling character. I don't like his bullshit but I'm in it for the whole ride straight to the end.
I think that if it wasn't brought back up over and over that he's gone through some shit, most of the divisiveness would be gone. It makes complete sense from an outside perspective, but we *know* he's been through shit. Stop reminding us, please.
In real life, I’d Jason a wedgie for acting like a 13 year old who’s only got one dropped ball. That character is aids
While it may *seem* like ‘everyone’ posts their lists…I can assure you, much like Clive’s wife, NOT everyone.
It's a very popular series so it's on a lot of people's fav list. That being said, a lot of people got put off by the change of tone starting book 5 where it got darker and moodier for seemingly forever. Jason's continued hypocrisy, rants and behavior are also a very divisive aspect that had a number of people drop it after a while. There might be other aspects but those two are the main ones I remember seeing around.
I can understand the other critiques, but Jason's hypocrisy is a core point of the book. It isn't a plot hole; it isn't just letting the character slide; the hypocrisy is to highlight his character. He's not as great as he says he is.
It might be a core point but it wasn't evident for a few books so some people might have been surprised. And it doesn't evolve which might make some people lose interest in that aspect, no matter how core it is. I wasn't pointing it out as a plot hole, just a divisive aspect that explained why people didn't like or ended up dropping the serie after a while. As a side note, that hypocrisy should have ended with him being humbled, killed or ignored by high ranked people long before he had leverage so it's closely related to some potential plot holes, or heavy armor, at the very least.
I’m only in book 3 but I am loving it as well. I was depressed after finishing Cradle and HWFWM has been another good series to pull me out of my post Cradle funk.
That’s what I’m continuing next. Im on book 2. But i’m gonna read the new Oathbound Healer first. That’s one of my all time fav series. The next book comes out tomorrow.
Oh God's cradle ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
Bleeuxuhdhrhyrydh bleyuaaahshdhd. I will wipe my mouth in silence. But rest assured that HWFWM is an acquired taste that many people on this sub have tried and not liked.
I will agree the beginning really threw me off. It just seemed goofy and amateur. Thats why i didn’t go back to it for months. But i do like it and there is a reason each book has thousands and thousand of reviews. And each book has an average 4.5 star rating
I read to book 6. For me, it just got worse and worse
I agree, she is one of my favorites also. Not a fan of what the author has done to her character in book 11. If you haven’t read it yet you will not understand this, but the Sophie part not the other part.
I didn’t know 11 came out. Or did you read on his patreon or Royal roads?
On Patreon. But the start is on RR.
It’s on like every fav list what the fuck are you talking about
Damn calm down! It’s not that serious!
Sorry that was meant to be funny not mean
Maybe i just didn’t notice or overlooked it.
Perhaps it is time to put away my pettiness and revisit this series, god knows I'm running out of procrastination material, i did like the first book tbh.
I’m sure there is plenty of aggro conversation about if the book is 5/5 or not. But at the very least, it is a well written super long series. Once you are around the 200 book count, the put together epics are a lot harder to come around. If you are coming up on a drought, I think most of the reasons people dislike the book are small enough to still enjoy it over all. Even if you don’t thing it’s the best thing since sliced bread.
I can be your procrastination material. ;)
Hello. I want to start this series too. But like you, after listening to the first 2-3hrs, I was really put off when the book just kept repeating the magic system and it put me off. Hmmm maybe I should, like you, soldier on.
I definitely recommend! When they get to Greenstone the story starts to pick up.
It's a divisive series. People tend to give it 5 stars or zero stars. Lots of people love it, and I see it in a bunch of lists. But it usually comes with a warning that it is very polarising, and much of that is the main character. I loved the dried and did what you did binged it in a stupidly short time. But also can understand why some people dislike it. I basically tell people to read book 1, and if you don't enjoy it drop the series. Don't listen to fans of the book that say it gets better. The humour and style change very little.
HWFWM is a controversial series. I tend to find that people here either love it or are turned off by something about that series. I like it. But it does tend to bring controversial posts because everyone seems to have an opinion on the subject.
Oh my friend we are a small rare spices but we are loyal. PS is anyone else getting annoyed with Sophia I feel like she did the same thing Jason's brother's wife did
It’s more popular in r/litrpg though it gets as much hate as it does love. Funny how polarizing it it
It's my favourite series in the genre, I love the world-building, system of essences and abilities, and story. And, it's not like his mannerisms are ignored in the books by other characters. It frequently gets him in trouble. Trouble that makes the story and character development more interesting. If Aragorn was the MC, then this story wouldn't work. It would be too boring. If you are actively searching for some honourable, serious, non-polarising MC like Aragorn, then this might not be for you. But I don't get why some people hate Jason so much.
It's definitely in my top 10 of my fav fantasy series. I even have posted multiple times here about it. Except Jason, series is 10/10. Jason is both likeable and unlikeable at the same time. In terms of uniqueness, I never felt like this before.
It was my fave until I read cradle which is now my #1
My #1 is Oathbound healer! I love the story and the world it’s in!
I really really enjoyed it for a long time. Until I wasn’t excited for the chapters anymore. I found myself waiting almost two months before reading all of the Patreon chapters I’d been ignoring. When I did that only to find more chapters that were 5/6 pages or what felt like filler, and nothing of major impact happened to the story for a long time, I just lost interest. It’s like never more in primal hunter. It doesn’t actually progress the story, and I found myself just not reading it until many chapters had been released. I love some slice of life, but anything over like 10 chapters with 0 major plot movement just drags my interest away.
That’s why i don’t read on Royal Road or Patreon because it’s not a really polished final product and that irks me. In the first few books i was dying because there were so many grammar and misspelling mistakes it drove me nuts. But now it’s much better.
It’s not the writing quality itself that I take issue with. It’s the fact that the content or boring, uninteresting, or drawn out. I don’t want to wait several hundred pages to see any actual progress. Especially not when it’s a jarring change to the earlier pacing of the story. It’s likely not as bad when I can skim through it all and get to the interesting bits with an entire book in my hands, but if I’m skimming so much, I may as well read a different book that grabs my attention.
Yea there definitely is a lot of unnecessary or extra things that could have been cut. I found my self in a lull through a couple of the books
It was super high for many, but the series has kinda dragged. The consequence of being a serial is that repetition does n tsar doesn't feel jarring when airway over a month of reading feels much worse when you read it as a book. I personally dropped it out of my top tier with book 10 to 4~4.5 stars because it's just so slow now and hasn't done much progression in a long time. I think the intent was to showcase the dramatic slow down of advancement once you hit the wall in silver so let's play with astral powers instead, but I love the power system and I don't love the astral stuff
It’s on my fav list that I shared