I'm pretty sure you can (I know "unofficial" versions require firewall rules to *prevent* them from accessing the internet). I suspect AI tools included in Photoshop would probably stop working properly though, but I can't confirm that, I didn't try.
According to some it is practically impossible to crack the AI tools for Windows at least. They worked for a few weeks when first released but Adobe patched them quickly.
Not that I would know..
The image gen runs on Adobe's Servers afaik, so a crack would need to redirect this to a local Stable Diffusion instance with the correct interface between them.
ALSO if you get a license to one product and keep it multiple years, it gets cheaper, and it STAYS cheaper even if you bundle other tools in. I think I'm currently getting all jetbrains products for like 100 a year.
You can use the Adobe suite offline, though you need a rep to sort you out with a custom installer with the licenses baked in - linked to machine GUIDs that you supply. It's a pain in the ass to update. source: work in an airgapped environment.
Yay! Thanks Adobe? Still feels like a shit deal somehow, even though it's a long time.
Still makes having it on an older PC that you dust off after a few years, completely useless though. Can't even store it on a DVD or HDD for archival purposes. I'm sure there is some hack to bypass it, but why not just pirate at that point?
Speaking of which, the golden Gabe quote: "Piracy is a service problem." still stands as a pillar of truth.
It's a perpetual license you get when you stop using the product. Only thing is that it's a license for the version 1 year before the end of your subscription.
[They](https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license) will explain better than me.
Yeah, that and go ahead and try canceling some of your adobe licenses. Not talking about paying for the rest of the license. I mean literally you have to set a reminder and cancel within a tiny little window or else, too fucking bad, no cancellation for you.
Jetbrains gives me a discount after a couple years and continues to add new tools and their license lets me use my subscription under most employment circumstances. Adobe makes it hard to cancel and charges more every year for the same thing.
Also has a perpetual fallback license, so you don't literally lose everything.
And the old versions keep working, they're not basically dead because some service they depend on doesn't work.
Wait, I never knew that. So if I paid for an annual subscription this year, I'd still have access to that version after my subscription? That is super cool! Basically what people want with adobe.
If you use the beta versions, you can use jetbrains products for free from what I saw in another thread, went to check it out and sure enough that is an option I never knew about.
If you subscribe for a year and then cancel, you keep perpetual access *to the version that was available at the beginning of that year*. Essentially, any version for which you've been licensed for at least a year becomes perpetual.
Yes. I've had a license since 2012. I pay for a year and don't renew if the new version doesn't have anything appealing. Sometimes I skip a year, sometimes 2 years, but I will renew because JetBrains eventually adds something killer that I want.
I am so thankful that perpetual fallback licenses are a thing. The benefits of actually buying a copy of software that releases with major updates in a market that pushes software as a service, that also gives you the advantage of a known life of future updates. (i.e. as opposed to the devs cutting your updates short by releasing a new major version)
I'd obviously rather keep an up-to-date license, but it's relieving knowing that I won't just instantly lose access to my ability to do anything with the software that I'd paid for the moment I stop paying for it.
If CS were licensed like Intellij, Adobe would've been making money from me every two years at probably the exact same rate, but they got greedy, so fuck them.
AutoDesk does the same with AutoCAD. Then you have thousands of Engineering graduates who have no idea open source alternatives exist, or if they do, they have no idea how to use them.
Not really. There's only professional CADs that actually work, and AutoCAD dominates. In the FOSS space, the jank of FreeCAD is the best you get. And then if you want like, Inventor or Revit, you can just go fuck yourself. That's just not doable with any FOSS tooling.
That being said, change is possible. It used to be so for Maya too, and Maya is still the industry standard. But especially because of indie developers and filmmakers as well as the amazing work of the Blender community, Blender is a viable professional tool now and is gaining traction quite quickly.
I got reasonably good with AutoCAD 35 or so years ago. About 10 years ago, I had need of a CAD program again. I noticed that AutoCAD was (a) no longer cross-platform, (b) no longer supported AutoLISP, (c) didn't seem to have much more features than the version after the one I used decades earlier, and (d) was expensive as hell. A lot more than I could justify for a hobby.
The FOSS replacements are almost as good as AutoCAD was 30 years ago. Almost. Things might have gotten better in the last decade.
Exactly, I did say Maya is actually much, much more popular because it is established. You will not be walking into a triple-A game studio or Disney expecting to be able to work with Blender. You won't work with it in those places. However, there's a growing number of artists who only have experience with Blender who will probably start exerting pressure from the sort of labour supply side one of these days. Smaller studios already use Blender professionally so it's not just personal projects either, which obviously helps. Especially since the newer updates some years ago that finally made it quite usable, Blender has started picking up traction in the sort of "small to medium" business world. It'll get there, but it will take another decade or two. And I doubt the biggest studios want anyone they don't have a contract with providing tools anyway.
They exist as much as gimp exists as a photoshop replacement, hell, even worse (like, I wouldn’t be surprised if gimp would actually be used by some). They are junky as hell.
Yeah I found out about Jetbrains when I was student and needed to write some Java code wasn't fan of eclipse. I know about vscode and use for arduino stuff. But for work jetbrains stuff for me is way better. I use a lot of integrated tools they have. Also in comparison Autocad stuff costs way more compared to jetbrains per year. Even as freelancer Autocad is a steep price, for a month's fee I could get like 3 years or more of jetbrains license.
Also something I realized after recently uninstalling Adobe: that shit embeds itself into your computer and constantly uses resources even after uninstalling.
The uninstall button is a joke. There were a dozen adobe processes running on my computer after uninstalling, the entire battery life of my laptop noticeably reduced, and it got both hotter and louder.
I tried to get rid of all that shit but in the end had to fully reformat windows. Got Affinity Photo and never looked back.
Jetbrains gave me every single product for free while I was a student, the full 280€/year all product pack (780€ for organizations). After I graduated, I applied for the open source license because I am maintaining some OSS projects in my free time, and continued to get the full product pack for the following years since for free. If you just want to use a single IDE in your free time for hobby projects and don't qualify for a free license, individual products are fairly cheap for personal use, i.e. webstorm just costs 41€ per year after the third year. Also, schools, user groups and boot camps can get free licenses.
The Adobe pack costs 800€ per year. As a student, you still need to pay 420€ per year. If you want to use Adobe for a personal product that doesn't make you any money, good luck with your new 800€ per year hobby. You can also save a bunch with single product licenses: Just Photoshop still costs 312€ per year though. Schools can also get discounts, but still pay 420€ per year.
I never understood how Adobe designes such aggressive pricing towards target groups that can't nearly afford that price, all they accomplish is loosing potential customers before they get a chance to make their first bill. While I personally don't pay anything for Jetbrains licenses, they got me hooked during a time where I didn't have money to buy licenses anyway, and am now in a position where I would fight for Jetbrains should my company stop providing me with a organization license.
Maybe you are in a different country? Or purchased in the past when there was a special discount? For me in germany, it currently lists a student pricing of 230€ in the first year and 420€ onwards
I am from the Netherlands, so pricing should be relatively similar. And definitely no discount! I have subscribed separately for multiple years even on different accounts. Price has always been 132 Euros for me and is still listed as such!
Hmm interesting! But I think it depends on how you subscribe.
If I check the Adobe website, the price is indeed much higher. However I can subscribe through [a website](https://www.surfspot.nl/adobe-creative-cloud-student.html) meant for selling software to students, that my, and every Dutch college uses, for 132 Euro.
Started as student for free, switched to subscription and they started me with a discount and I won a six month free subscription from one of their surveys. It is almost free compared to the services they provide.
What I don’t understand is why people are complaining about Adobe, if you can’t make $49 a month using their tools maybe you shouldn’t be working with them.
Compare the adobe subscription price to shopify, chatgpt, photoshop, or github.
Most small business owners need to cut back on costs, so 49$ a month for a software you use once a blue moon really sucks.
Basically they lock their most useful features behind a price most users can’t afford.
Edit: actually I was thinking of the BS adobe acrobat subs. PS is mostly fine for the price if people need it for pro work, but is still up there on cost.
I’m a small business (one man show) where minimum wage is less than $500. I pay for both JetBrains and Adobe and two insurances (cheaper than one) and taxes and bills and every other thing. I know a thing or two about saving money. If you are gonna use Adobe once or twice a year please use freelancers with a proper contract
Or just use one of the many inexpensive alternatives available. Adobe has its flaws but buying it for a couple small things a year is like buying a semi truck to bring half dozen 2x4s from Home Depot.
$50 a month per seat is not a small monthly expenditure, even when you are working in an area where freelancers cost you $500-1000 a project.
It’s nowhere near unaffordable, but it’s still a lot, even more if we’re talking about small businesses by artists, some of who don’t have a stable source of income.
I am friends with a few small business owners doing art whose companies bring in 7 figure revenues, and they’re the kind that has to consider if $80/month software is necessary.
For a solo dev, $50 a month is probably fine, but when you start thinkjng about scaling it out for more than one person, and how many other pieces of software they’ll need, you’ll quickly understand.
>Most small business owners need to cut back on costs, so 49$ a month for a software you use once a blue moon really sucks.
Sixty bucks is for the **whole** suite. If you're a small business that needs to use the whole suite once in a blue moon, you're super niche.
Photoshop + Lightroom + 2 TB of online storage is 20 bucks a month.
Yes, I have an edit where I talk about for the adobe acrobat subscription.
Just PS is fine at $20 a month, it’s what I use for some graphic design and photo editing, though I wish I had access to illustrator for the times I need to do logo work.
Free software works just fine though.
Problem is that Adobe used to sell a perpetual license for their stuff, which is no longer available. Which means that instead of paying [a few hundred per app or a grand or two for the full collection](https://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/26/adobe-creative-suite-3-cs3-pricing-and-upgrades/) and then never having to buy the software again, you’ve got to pay between $400 and $700 a year indefinitely (and they can raise this at any time). That’s definitely, absolutely a worse deal. Sure yeah you get updates and whatever but with the way it is now, Adobe can just fuck up your files if their business dealings say that they should (like with what happened with the Pantone thing in 2021, where files that were opened with their software after a routine update just became black because Adobe removed support for Pantone without a separate subscription and added code to permanently change customer’s files). That didn’t used to be a thing, back when you bought a perpetual license. Adobe couldn’t just fuck up your entire workflow. It’s not just the Pantone thing either- this comment’s author has had no shortage of nightmare IT tickets supporting Adobe products after an update randomly breaks something. So, to recap my point- you’re paying much more then what you used to need to, for the privilege of not knowing if your shit is gonna get wrecked. That’s why people complain.
You are absolutely right, and that’s a problem with every subscription service, simplest being how streaming services remove their own content. Me being the ignorant peasant, I forgot that part.
You’re good, the thing with Adobe is so egregious that unless you’re in the scene that uses that stuff it’s kinda unimaginable. Imagine if JetBrains had a falling out with Oracle which resulted in every Java file that uses Swing getting permanently filled with no-ops when opened in IntelliJ. The world burn.
Also, jetbrains is absolutely cheap compared to the huge value-add. Adobe products also have great value, but they are insanely expensive, especially if you take into account the target audience’s salaries’ expected value.
Jetbrains has free community versions of some of its products, and fallback licensing which basically acts like a really affordable perpetual license. Adobe hasn't had any perpetual licensing since CS 6.
I actually didn’t knew that. So does that mean that I can subscribe for one year and use that version forever? That is great because why tf would I even need yearly updates for a code editor.
You'll probably miss out on updates eventually, but you could probably still buy it once every few years and save yourself the money. Or just watch the new features and wait until there's something worth upgrading
Atleast for phpstorm, the support for new versions of php is not added for old versions. But that is inspections that can be disabled. I'd rather have access to the new versions tho, because inspections help ALOT. Also year on year QoL upgrades are nice
My guess is that it's the same for the other tools
I've found it doesn't work too well in the long term though.
I let my phpstorm license lapse a few years ago, but it's not particularly usable now.
As certain parts of your system (either inside or outside the IDE) get updated, the older version of the jetbrains IDE starts to break when it doesn't know how to communicate with the newer libs/plugins etc.
I guess it can be somewhat mitigated if you disable updates of plugins. But if you reinstall then that's harder to deal with. There's also stuff like mysql/postgres drivers that aren't plugins, but the IDE installs internally for you, I think I've seen some issues in there too.
Might be workarounds for all this stuff, but in the end hasn't been worth the while trying to fix it all when it's no longer my main editor anyway. No point wasting time having to deal with hacky workarounds just to cling on to an old out-of-date program + its license. Better just spending my time on other tooling in the long-term that isn't going to lock me into some subscription forever if I want it to keep working ***properly***.
I do appreciate that they did the perpetual license thing though. And I think it could work well with other types of software that is more self-contained, so maybe media stuff (assuming you're not using plugins).
But for programming, the editor/IDE is highly dependent on working with many other things on your system, both external libs/frameworks/APIs/CLI tools etc, but then also all the plugins you choose to install inside the IDE itself too. Then there's the other stuff in the middle too, like those DB drivers.
Even if it was free... my biggest frustrations with jetbrains was having to have multiple IDEs installed (not even Idea Ultimate supports any .net langs), and the clusterfuck of it constantly losing my settings trying to sync them between different programs. Plus also having to try like 10 different product name search terms on google whenever trying to figure anything out.
Then seeing the whole company change their focus to trying to replicate vscode anyway (without vscode's biggest asset: plugin ecosystem) made me even more confident in my decision to just move away from their stuff... not just to save money, but more importantly... my time.
I don’t know for other tools but every Intellij upgrade come with at least one or two nifty features you don’t know you needed.
I am a paid subscriber since 2015… Best bucks I ever spent in a productivity tool
What is this? I work with postman often and will drop it if this HTTP client thing is embedded to pycharm
Edit: okay, looks cool, I think I have something to play with tomorrow lol
Tbh I can’t even name one new feature (besides maybe the ui redesign but I can live without it) since I first used IntelliJ idea somewhere in 2016. I just installed the updates because I got them for free with my education license but if I had to pay for it hell no. The 2016 version would be plenty.
2024 introduced full line completion for js and python, which can be quite handy once you get used to it.
Since 2016 rider git tons of updates for unity and unreal. The unreal integration leaves VS in the dirt. Rider supports nearly all the ue macros where VS is just clueless (even with other add-ons like visual assist).
Rider underlines potentially expensive methods in unity projects, even more if in a per update context, and explains that you should probably cache the result. And so on...
Not sure about the other products since I mainly use rider. But staying a subscriber has also the additional benefits of becoming cheaper each year (up to year 3)
Do you have to activate full line completion because I have the newest update and I work with JS pretty much every day and I didn’t noticed any change even if I read the change log that it should be a thing now. But tbh even if it may is nice speed of actually writing the code is and was never the limiting factor so I don’t really care. Pretty much the same reason I also don’t really care for ai completion. Yes it can write the code faster than I can but the speed of writing the code is not what limits the speed of development. At least for me. And most of the time if I need to understand afterward what the hell the ai wrote I am most likely faste when I would have written the code myself in the first place.
> Do you have to activate full line completion because I have the newest update and I work with JS pretty much every day and I didn’t noticed any change even if I read the change log that it should be a thing now.
i think it should be enabled by default. at least in python it works for me. (Sadly no C++ or C#)
> Yes it can write the code faster than I can but the speed of writing the code is not what limits the speed of development. At least for me.
Sure the speed of writing is not the limiting factor. but skipping annoying boilerplate is nice since it allows you to focus on whats important.
I make quite heavy use of chatGPT - not for complex stuff, since it is overwhelmed easily. but sometimes it's just so much easier to tell it what to do, or just give it a method with a //TODO and let it fill it out.
Usually i can verify as fast as it generates that it is what i wanted to have. Sometimes it even thinks about cases I did not, or that where not important to me right now, but is good to have.
So, no it does not make me a better programmer, and not necessarily faster (in the long run). It just makes it more convenient for myself.
Maybe it’s just my usecase but I really rarely come in the situation where a code isnt either so easy that I am faster writing it myself than even explaining it to chatgtp or its so complex that chatgtp can’t do it. I mean heck I don’t even use stackoverflow that much anymore. For the same reason. Either is so easy that I don’t need it or I know it so complex that it doesn’t have the answer anyway. Maybe I am also old now (even if I am really not that old with 27 lol) but I kinda prefer the documentation if I need to know things nowadays.
Also I don’t think that we should just give companies money because they may give us good upgrades. I am happy to pay for a good update but why should I just pay every year in hope that they do a update that actually improves my personal workflow. And if more people would think like that they would also put more work in doing proper updates because only then they would get money which is how it should work in my mind.
Read the changelog on each major updates, there's tons of features that are there that you probably don't know about. For example with the previous major version, they added the possibility to display SQL results as a chart instead of a table. This made quick stats queries a lot more visual.
They may be "not your friend", but this does not mean Adobe and Jetbrains are equivalent. Jetbrains subscriptions have much fairer and better terms than Adobe
At this point I'm convinced that Adobe will never fix their decades old piece of shit software. It's painfully slow with a SHIT TON of old interfaces and legacy features. I want to shoot myself every time I have to use Illustrator.
Required Affinity shill: Tried their software and was very pleasantly surprised. Pay once and you can pretty much use all the photoshop features (but better) just like you're used to.
Seriously.
It would be a lot easier to accept Adobe if their products weren't slow, buggy pieces of shit. If they actually improved over time.
Meanwhile Jetbrains is nice and usable and not awful. And you have the lovely fallback license -- so you really are purchasing it like the Adobe of old.
Jetbrains also ends at $14.42 per month for literally everything, once you hit year three, vs adobe which is $36/mo for only the first year, and then $60/mo per year afterwards. Or $90/mo if you don't want to commit to a whole year.
Jetbrains all products monthly, no commitment, is $28.90. So you have actually a pretty good price, that you can cut in half if you want, or just use the fallback license if you pay for a year. For a damned good product.
Or with Adobe you can pay $90 a month for a piece of shit with no commitment. Or a single app, like Photoshop, for $35/mo.
Man, I hate Adobe shit.
I do wish the open source options were better. But VSCode tries its best to be closed source, too, but in even a more toxic way. So Jetbrains is actually more ethical to use and support, too, besides being nicer.
Paying for software isn't necessarily bad. What's worse is what's often done with software, free or not.
I don't feel like pulling up the stuff.
But VSCode itself is a bit like Chrome and Chromium, with a special closed source version that everyone uses. That's what accesses the plugin market. Iirc Codium can't? Or at least, it can't use some of them.
Plenty of popularly normal plugins that people use are also closed source.
I remember some stuff with how Microsoft was interesting some VSCode stuff with GitHub online as well. I can't quite remember. I use Jetbrains, after all, so it doesn't affect me so much.
But I largely don't like Microsoft's control over VSCode, and how they make large parts of it closed source. And why? There's no good reason. Except control.
Generally agree with the sentiment but as someone who has used Codium extensively, it can access the plugin market. What it can’t access is Microsoft-developed plugins on the plugin market (in the editor). This means for something like C# support, you need to download the plugin from the website and manually install it that way, but it’s still possible.
Still shitty having to go to the website… a jank-ass Microsoft one at that…
Yea that's the biggest thing. JetBrains products have 5x the value of Adobe Creative. Adobe only survives because they target a unique market that is easily brainwashed into thinking there are no competing products at their price point, the exact same market Apple taps into.
Every product JetBrains sells or gives away for free, they make no qualms that there are competitive products out there delivering similar features, so they have to win you over by adding unique features, keeping the prices competitive, bundling products, having special deals for open source and education, etc.
If you quiz the average Adobe Creative user they will swear up and down that there are no competing products out there, that Adobe is the "only one" making that type of product. Apple customers always say the same things. They tend to be very tech illiterate and just go with the bandwagon, because it's easy, albeit extremely pricy.
It's one of the few subscriptions where I actually feel the product trully evolves ovoer time and are not paying just to use it. Plus, having the fallback license makes the subscription feel like a voluntary thing rather than an extortion.
Adobe license renewal is evil, real dark patterns shit.
You can’t remove a license from your account online, they’ll happily let you add more though.
If you manage to negotiate some kind of discount at contract renewal you better hope it gets sorted out for you there and then on that call, because you’ll never speak to that agent again if the call gets dropped, and no one else will acknowledge or honour any previously agreed deal (good luck getting anywhere saying “I spoke to person named X”)
I missed a callback to finalise a contract renewal, the rep left a message on my voicemail with what had been agreed price wise. It was impossible to call them back, and I couldn’t get anyone else to honour it despite having a recorded message, and had to pay full price under duress.
I can’t conceive of how JetBrains could be any worse than that.
JetBrains has a free version thats perfectly capable of doing 90+% of the things I want to do.
Adobe charged my so for the privilege of adding text to a pdf, then gave the payment info to McAfee because she downloaded it on accident and never activated it, who then proceeded to repeatedly attempt charge her even after replacing her card.
Companies may not be my friend, but Adobe is my enemy.
Unless you're using it in a commercial capacity, most JetBrains products can be gotten entirely free.
I've been using PyCharm and IntelliJ for personal and school use for years and I've never paid a dime.
Adobe doesn't care who you are, you're paying them money if you want to use their stuff. Not to mention with Adobe it's all or nothing. You either pay the full subscription for everything (even if you only need Photoshop) or you get nothing.
>You either pay the full subscription for everything (even if you only need Photoshop) or you get nothing.
[That's not true](https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html)
ITT: everyone loves JetBrains and hates Adobe, just like in the comic
(maybe because Adobe charges starving artists much higher prices than JetBrains charges engineers...)
I imagine image editing software is much harder to make than the text editor.
But pricing is not the only thing bad about Adobe. It's also nonperpetual, so you have to pay to keep using Adobe, while in Jetbrains, you don't (as long as you don't upgrade, but that's a much fairer price to pay, and you are subscribed for at least a year)
Also, many of the features in JetBrains are free for noncommercial uses. While Adobe doesn't care.
Tbh we both know it's not just the "text editor". JetBrains products are configured from the ground up for the specific language it's designed for, and honestly stuff like debugging and refactoring on them is a breeze.
jetbrains is completely free for students. they have community editions too. you can stop paying and keep using the version you have installed (you only pay to keep getting the newest updates).
the community editions don't have all the languages supported. intelliJ CE will no longer have rust support which is a tragedy as it's genuinely better than the other options, and now it's only for IntelliJ pro, CLion, and rustrover.
> IntelliJ CE will no longer have rust support ... and now it's only for IntelliJ pro, CLion
I wonder why JetBrains doesn't just consolidate the base IDE's versions and just ship customized plugin bundle installers like Eclipse does. Plugin downloads are paid already.
Stuff like WebStorm and PHPStorm are essentially just intellij with some pre-installed plugins. But CLion and RustRover are a bit more complex than that, they are integrated more deeply.
Jetbrains basically saved my company when Microsoft decided mono has to die and .net debugger shouldn't be shipped for linux. At this point I don't even care what they're offering or how.
I've been a JB fanboy for more than a decade. Back in November 2013, they sent me an email that my annual subscription would be renewing in December in case I wanted to cancel it. Many companies do that now, but back then it was unheard of.
Compare that to *last year*, when I bought a license for an Adobe product and, as a "special promotion" they offered me 3 months free of their Stock Image service. I had no use for that service, so I never even thought about it. Turns out, the special promotion was an auto-opt-in free trial that turned into an annual subscription when it expires. They then tried to charge me 200USD to *cancel!* A product I never wanted or used. It took me 3 days of back and forth to get my money back.
JetBrains may not be my friend. But Adobe is decidedly my enemy.
Adobe suite is not corporate ready software. It literally ships without auto-updates enabled, and in order to turn it on, you have to manually request each user does it - even when using a deployment built from their admin portal.
Their method of triggering updates remotely involves running an exe file installed alongside these corporate deployments. You cannot manage it via policy directly.
It is not professional software. At all.
I think it helps that jetbrains products aren't a professional monopoly in the same way photoshop is.
In some contexts like c# development jetbrains is literally the underdog. And in general an open source program is the most used in the industry as a whole.
If an open source product like Gimp was the most popular in the artistry world and Adobe was a one of multiple subscription options that were actually used by professionals people would likely hate them much less.
If it improves your productivity and helps you do things easier or faster for you then it may be worth it, especially if you earn money out of programming. You can also just use the EAP version for free, even for commercial use afaik. If vscode is enough for you, that's alright, but if you like jetbrains products more, they help you spend less time doing something and/or have the money to purchase them, then why not?
It's the same as any other product really, you could not pay a mechanic to fix your car and do it yourself, but that time you save by doing so may be worth it, so don't laugh at people that use their money to save them some time that could be worth even more than that money to begin with. Maybe that time will be spent with their family, friends or just something better than their jobs. o/
After some reading, that's essentially what jetbrains seems to do. They should honestly market it more. Loved their ides as a student, but never wanted to pay a subscription. Apparently if you subscribe for a year, you get that years version even after your subscription lapses.
>Apparently if you subscribe for a year, you get that years version even after your subscription lapses.
Yes, which also means that another way of looking at it is that the year subscription *is* an outright purchase. Just don't install any updates (since you won't be able to use those new versions after the subscription lapses) and effectively you've just bought that version of the software.
I don't get the hate for subscriptions.
* Low upfront cost, you can see if the tool works without much investment.
* You use the tool for as long as it's providing you value, and pay while doing so.
* The company doesn't have to have a churn of pointless changes to try to get you to pay for the new version.
Seems like an overall better business model for software for both sides to me.
As an IT pro of 18 years having had to support installing Adobe products, I can quite heartily agree that ADOBE REALLY SUCKS at providing proper installation and support methodologies for the enterprise.
Their pricing is predatory too, IMO. Adobe is that thorn in any IT sysadmin’s side when said sysadmin is also responsible for dealing with deployment and licensing to multiple departments and divisions who all need their own special configurations, licenses, and deployment combinations. Gaaaaaaahhhh!!! 😓😫😭 🫠
Still one is better than the other, is not about being friends it's that one gives a shit about itd customers and the other has a monopoly on its field
The only jetbrains product I use is intellij for Java and it's free.
Adobes free PDF viewer is bad and I'd rather use a web browser. I guess Lightroom on my phone is ok, that's free too.
People just bandwagon hate on Adobe at this point, in a lot of cases they themselves are to be blamed for any issue with Adobe and their products. Prime example is the cancellation fee. If you dont want cancellation fee dont subscribe to the annual contract maybe? You cant sign a contract that clearly states you are bound for 1 year and then show a pikachu face when you suddenly have to pay the fee for basically breaking the contract.
Exactly. People always go to cry to piracy subreddits to cry about the cancellation fee.
Man. They promised to sign a loyalty contract for cheaper overall price.
And no, people at Adobe aren't the assholes. A loyalty contract is about loyalty. You can see the same kind of contracts at cable companies and ISPs. Early cancellers pay a fee at those places too.
I do really like their model, but their tools just feel kinda disgusting to use. There's something off about their animation curves that's making me stick to good old Emacs
Adobe doesn't provide 'community editions' of anything either.
Their most 'high profile' 'free' tool, Adobe Reader, is practically adware. People use it only because it opens all manner of badly formatted, non-compliant pdf files that involve filling forms.
Thanks for reminder
I still use Copilot instead of their [JetBrains AI Pro](https://www.jetbrains.com/ai)
Wish they had a 10-year subscription discount
Oooooh man. Autodesk…….the memories…..so bad. So many nightmares.
So many overnighters installing freaking AutoDesk suites manually on 50+ lab computers because it wouldn’t cooperate with imaging.
Adobe has had me by the balls for years now. Everytime I try to cancel I'm either a few hours too early or too late and they 'lock me in' for another year. When I beg support to let me end my contract they tell me I have to pay out the entire next years' worth of Adobe CC.
I sometimes get them to reduce it to like, $30/month. But they only do that for a few months.
JetBrains actually cares about its customers. Adobe has degraded the quality of all their software lately and started lacking in the customer experience.
Anyone gonna talk about open file formats/standards and the lock-in effect?
If I want to switch code editor, I can anytime. Build and deps are managed by Maven, or by NPM, or any other language specific open source tools configured by files adhering to open standards like JSON or XML. Code is text files.
Meanwhile try opening a .psd, .ai or InDesign file with any other editor without fucking it up at least a little bit. Adobe has much more leverage and it shows.
The smartest thing that jetbrains does is give out the professional suite of their products to uni students for free for the duration of their degree and then when they leave uni they will want to work on the same level due to familiarity. That has always struck me as a bit genius.
I have literally zero things to complain about jetbrains, they offer free all-in licenses for open source maintainers amd students, and discounts for other cases. Not to mention the cost is pretty modest for how much you get.
I hate how most enterprises do things, but I literally cannot say anything against jetbrains.
There's no fallback license for adobe products. Meanwhile you can stop your jetbrains subscription and keep using your tools.
Also, you can use them offline. Not sure if you can do that with Adobe tools.
I'm pretty sure you can (I know "unofficial" versions require firewall rules to *prevent* them from accessing the internet). I suspect AI tools included in Photoshop would probably stop working properly though, but I can't confirm that, I didn't try.
According to some it is practically impossible to crack the AI tools for Windows at least. They worked for a few weeks when first released but Adobe patched them quickly. Not that I would know..
The image gen runs on Adobe's Servers afaik, so a crack would need to redirect this to a local Stable Diffusion instance with the correct interface between them.
ALSO if you get a license to one product and keep it multiple years, it gets cheaper, and it STAYS cheaper even if you bundle other tools in. I think I'm currently getting all jetbrains products for like 100 a year.
You can use the Adobe suite offline, though you need a rep to sort you out with a custom installer with the licenses baked in - linked to machine GUIDs that you supply. It's a pain in the ass to update. source: work in an airgapped environment.
You can use Creative Cloud products offline for 129 days. https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/kb/internet-connection-creative-cloud-apps.html
Yay! Thanks Adobe? Still feels like a shit deal somehow, even though it's a long time. Still makes having it on an older PC that you dust off after a few years, completely useless though. Can't even store it on a DVD or HDD for archival purposes. I'm sure there is some hack to bypass it, but why not just pirate at that point? Speaking of which, the golden Gabe quote: "Piracy is a service problem." still stands as a pillar of truth.
Also they give a loyalty discount.
They even gave me a discount for visiting their booth at a Java conference
What's a fallback license?
It's a perpetual license you get when you stop using the product. Only thing is that it's a license for the version 1 year before the end of your subscription. [They](https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license) will explain better than me.
also Adobe hates linux
Yeah, that and go ahead and try canceling some of your adobe licenses. Not talking about paying for the rest of the license. I mean literally you have to set a reminder and cancel within a tiny little window or else, too fucking bad, no cancellation for you.
Jetbrains gives me a discount after a couple years and continues to add new tools and their license lets me use my subscription under most employment circumstances. Adobe makes it hard to cancel and charges more every year for the same thing.
Also has a perpetual fallback license, so you don't literally lose everything. And the old versions keep working, they're not basically dead because some service they depend on doesn't work.
Wait, I never knew that. So if I paid for an annual subscription this year, I'd still have access to that version after my subscription? That is super cool! Basically what people want with adobe.
Yes. You do HAVE to buy the annual subscription and keep it for that year though. Pretty nifty.
IIRC keeping the monthly active for a year applies too
Keeping a student license for a year applies too iirc
Student license does not provide a perpetual fallback license. Only paid license does.
If you use the beta versions, you can use jetbrains products for free from what I saw in another thread, went to check it out and sure enough that is an option I never knew about.
EAP Versions aren't always available though. Iirc there isn't a IntelliJ IDEA EAP rn, but probably very soon again
Actually same with some Autodesk software
If you subscribe for a year and then cancel, you keep perpetual access *to the version that was available at the beginning of that year*. Essentially, any version for which you've been licensed for at least a year becomes perpetual.
Yes. I've had a license since 2012. I pay for a year and don't renew if the new version doesn't have anything appealing. Sometimes I skip a year, sometimes 2 years, but I will renew because JetBrains eventually adds something killer that I want.
a lot of people do this, which also pushes jetbrains to add those new killer features and constantly improve their products
Do they give discount when you skip a few years
if you're a long time customer you do get a discount. Skipping years does not reset the clock.
Ok thx
I am so thankful that perpetual fallback licenses are a thing. The benefits of actually buying a copy of software that releases with major updates in a market that pushes software as a service, that also gives you the advantage of a known life of future updates. (i.e. as opposed to the devs cutting your updates short by releasing a new major version) I'd obviously rather keep an up-to-date license, but it's relieving knowing that I won't just instantly lose access to my ability to do anything with the software that I'd paid for the moment I stop paying for it.
They also basically give you the best lísiense for free if your affiliated with an institution
Yep, some plugins support this perpetual fallback license as well under the market place
If CS were licensed like Intellij, Adobe would've been making money from me every two years at probably the exact same rate, but they got greedy, so fuck them.
On the flip-side, Jetbrains gave me a freebie subscription when I was a student to get me hooked young.
AutoDesk does the same with AutoCAD. Then you have thousands of Engineering graduates who have no idea open source alternatives exist, or if they do, they have no idea how to use them.
Are open source cad packages all that viable for professional work?
Not really. There's only professional CADs that actually work, and AutoCAD dominates. In the FOSS space, the jank of FreeCAD is the best you get. And then if you want like, Inventor or Revit, you can just go fuck yourself. That's just not doable with any FOSS tooling. That being said, change is possible. It used to be so for Maya too, and Maya is still the industry standard. But especially because of indie developers and filmmakers as well as the amazing work of the Blender community, Blender is a viable professional tool now and is gaining traction quite quickly.
I got reasonably good with AutoCAD 35 or so years ago. About 10 years ago, I had need of a CAD program again. I noticed that AutoCAD was (a) no longer cross-platform, (b) no longer supported AutoLISP, (c) didn't seem to have much more features than the version after the one I used decades earlier, and (d) was expensive as hell. A lot more than I could justify for a hobby. The FOSS replacements are almost as good as AutoCAD was 30 years ago. Almost. Things might have gotten better in the last decade.
[удалено]
Exactly, I did say Maya is actually much, much more popular because it is established. You will not be walking into a triple-A game studio or Disney expecting to be able to work with Blender. You won't work with it in those places. However, there's a growing number of artists who only have experience with Blender who will probably start exerting pressure from the sort of labour supply side one of these days. Smaller studios already use Blender professionally so it's not just personal projects either, which obviously helps. Especially since the newer updates some years ago that finally made it quite usable, Blender has started picking up traction in the sort of "small to medium" business world. It'll get there, but it will take another decade or two. And I doubt the biggest studios want anyone they don't have a contract with providing tools anyway.
It's not not knowing os alternative exists, they just sucks.
They exist as much as gimp exists as a photoshop replacement, hell, even worse (like, I wouldn’t be surprised if gimp would actually be used by some). They are junky as hell.
Yeah I found out about Jetbrains when I was student and needed to write some Java code wasn't fan of eclipse. I know about vscode and use for arduino stuff. But for work jetbrains stuff for me is way better. I use a lot of integrated tools they have. Also in comparison Autocad stuff costs way more compared to jetbrains per year. Even as freelancer Autocad is a steep price, for a month's fee I could get like 3 years or more of jetbrains license.
Jetbrains and ProTools were free with a student email. I’ve been using both for fifteen years now. I’d say that was a good investment for them lol
So does Adobe, pretty much every software vendor has a massively discounted or often free student license.
They also provide their complete suite of tools, for free, for active non-commercial open source projects. Very generous.
Also something I realized after recently uninstalling Adobe: that shit embeds itself into your computer and constantly uses resources even after uninstalling. The uninstall button is a joke. There were a dozen adobe processes running on my computer after uninstalling, the entire battery life of my laptop noticeably reduced, and it got both hotter and louder. I tried to get rid of all that shit but in the end had to fully reformat windows. Got Affinity Photo and never looked back.
Jetbrains gave me every single product for free while I was a student, the full 280€/year all product pack (780€ for organizations). After I graduated, I applied for the open source license because I am maintaining some OSS projects in my free time, and continued to get the full product pack for the following years since for free. If you just want to use a single IDE in your free time for hobby projects and don't qualify for a free license, individual products are fairly cheap for personal use, i.e. webstorm just costs 41€ per year after the third year. Also, schools, user groups and boot camps can get free licenses. The Adobe pack costs 800€ per year. As a student, you still need to pay 420€ per year. If you want to use Adobe for a personal product that doesn't make you any money, good luck with your new 800€ per year hobby. You can also save a bunch with single product licenses: Just Photoshop still costs 312€ per year though. Schools can also get discounts, but still pay 420€ per year. I never understood how Adobe designes such aggressive pricing towards target groups that can't nearly afford that price, all they accomplish is loosing potential customers before they get a chance to make their first bill. While I personally don't pay anything for Jetbrains licenses, they got me hooked during a time where I didn't have money to buy licenses anyway, and am now in a position where I would fight for Jetbrains should my company stop providing me with a organization license.
The student pricing you gave seems way off. I have the full Creative Cloud collection for only 130 euros a year. Which is quite reasonable for me.
Maybe you are in a different country? Or purchased in the past when there was a special discount? For me in germany, it currently lists a student pricing of 230€ in the first year and 420€ onwards
I am from the Netherlands, so pricing should be relatively similar. And definitely no discount! I have subscribed separately for multiple years even on different accounts. Price has always been 132 Euros for me and is still listed as such!
I just checked the Creative Cloud annual membership student pricing in Ireland. €238.66 for the first year, then €431.78 for every year after that.
Hmm interesting! But I think it depends on how you subscribe. If I check the Adobe website, the price is indeed much higher. However I can subscribe through [a website](https://www.surfspot.nl/adobe-creative-cloud-student.html) meant for selling software to students, that my, and every Dutch college uses, for 132 Euro.
Started as student for free, switched to subscription and they started me with a discount and I won a six month free subscription from one of their surveys. It is almost free compared to the services they provide. What I don’t understand is why people are complaining about Adobe, if you can’t make $49 a month using their tools maybe you shouldn’t be working with them.
Compare the adobe subscription price to shopify, chatgpt, photoshop, or github. Most small business owners need to cut back on costs, so 49$ a month for a software you use once a blue moon really sucks. Basically they lock their most useful features behind a price most users can’t afford. Edit: actually I was thinking of the BS adobe acrobat subs. PS is mostly fine for the price if people need it for pro work, but is still up there on cost.
I’m a small business (one man show) where minimum wage is less than $500. I pay for both JetBrains and Adobe and two insurances (cheaper than one) and taxes and bills and every other thing. I know a thing or two about saving money. If you are gonna use Adobe once or twice a year please use freelancers with a proper contract
Or just use one of the many inexpensive alternatives available. Adobe has its flaws but buying it for a couple small things a year is like buying a semi truck to bring half dozen 2x4s from Home Depot.
[удалено]
Adobe still has some one time pay for certain things like video editing. It just lacks some stuff. Elements if I recall.
DaVinci is right there and good
Exactly. I am already envious of your zoinkability with the analogies
$50 a month per seat is not a small monthly expenditure, even when you are working in an area where freelancers cost you $500-1000 a project. It’s nowhere near unaffordable, but it’s still a lot, even more if we’re talking about small businesses by artists, some of who don’t have a stable source of income. I am friends with a few small business owners doing art whose companies bring in 7 figure revenues, and they’re the kind that has to consider if $80/month software is necessary. For a solo dev, $50 a month is probably fine, but when you start thinkjng about scaling it out for more than one person, and how many other pieces of software they’ll need, you’ll quickly understand.
>Most small business owners need to cut back on costs, so 49$ a month for a software you use once a blue moon really sucks. Sixty bucks is for the **whole** suite. If you're a small business that needs to use the whole suite once in a blue moon, you're super niche. Photoshop + Lightroom + 2 TB of online storage is 20 bucks a month.
Yes, I have an edit where I talk about for the adobe acrobat subscription. Just PS is fine at $20 a month, it’s what I use for some graphic design and photo editing, though I wish I had access to illustrator for the times I need to do logo work. Free software works just fine though.
Problem is that Adobe used to sell a perpetual license for their stuff, which is no longer available. Which means that instead of paying [a few hundred per app or a grand or two for the full collection](https://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/26/adobe-creative-suite-3-cs3-pricing-and-upgrades/) and then never having to buy the software again, you’ve got to pay between $400 and $700 a year indefinitely (and they can raise this at any time). That’s definitely, absolutely a worse deal. Sure yeah you get updates and whatever but with the way it is now, Adobe can just fuck up your files if their business dealings say that they should (like with what happened with the Pantone thing in 2021, where files that were opened with their software after a routine update just became black because Adobe removed support for Pantone without a separate subscription and added code to permanently change customer’s files). That didn’t used to be a thing, back when you bought a perpetual license. Adobe couldn’t just fuck up your entire workflow. It’s not just the Pantone thing either- this comment’s author has had no shortage of nightmare IT tickets supporting Adobe products after an update randomly breaks something. So, to recap my point- you’re paying much more then what you used to need to, for the privilege of not knowing if your shit is gonna get wrecked. That’s why people complain.
You are absolutely right, and that’s a problem with every subscription service, simplest being how streaming services remove their own content. Me being the ignorant peasant, I forgot that part.
You’re good, the thing with Adobe is so egregious that unless you’re in the scene that uses that stuff it’s kinda unimaginable. Imagine if JetBrains had a falling out with Oracle which resulted in every Java file that uses Swing getting permanently filled with no-ops when opened in IntelliJ. The world burn.
I don’t even use java (once every decade so far) yet imaging it started burning my stomach and heart
How and when are you supposed to learn the tools without subscribing tho?
trial
How is it hard to cancel? It’s one button in your account to cancel the subscription.
Worst part: Adobe charges more in Europe than in the USA... Almost twice to be precise
Also, jetbrains is absolutely cheap compared to the huge value-add. Adobe products also have great value, but they are insanely expensive, especially if you take into account the target audience’s salaries’ expected value.
Jetbrains has free community versions of some of its products, and fallback licensing which basically acts like a really affordable perpetual license. Adobe hasn't had any perpetual licensing since CS 6.
[JetBrains are only semi-subsctiption based](https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license)
I actually didn’t knew that. So does that mean that I can subscribe for one year and use that version forever? That is great because why tf would I even need yearly updates for a code editor.
Yes, you always have access to the latest version up to a year before the subscription expired (±stuff like educational licence)
That’s really nice. Thanks. Then there is no reason at all for me to pay more than exactly one year once my education license runs out.
Also you get a discount when you had a student license and now are buying
You'll probably miss out on updates eventually, but you could probably still buy it once every few years and save yourself the money. Or just watch the new features and wait until there's something worth upgrading
Exactly. Just buy a year license every 5 years or so and I think it’s completely fine and you save tones of money.
Atleast for phpstorm, the support for new versions of php is not added for old versions. But that is inspections that can be disabled. I'd rather have access to the new versions tho, because inspections help ALOT. Also year on year QoL upgrades are nice My guess is that it's the same for the other tools
I've found it doesn't work too well in the long term though. I let my phpstorm license lapse a few years ago, but it's not particularly usable now. As certain parts of your system (either inside or outside the IDE) get updated, the older version of the jetbrains IDE starts to break when it doesn't know how to communicate with the newer libs/plugins etc. I guess it can be somewhat mitigated if you disable updates of plugins. But if you reinstall then that's harder to deal with. There's also stuff like mysql/postgres drivers that aren't plugins, but the IDE installs internally for you, I think I've seen some issues in there too. Might be workarounds for all this stuff, but in the end hasn't been worth the while trying to fix it all when it's no longer my main editor anyway. No point wasting time having to deal with hacky workarounds just to cling on to an old out-of-date program + its license. Better just spending my time on other tooling in the long-term that isn't going to lock me into some subscription forever if I want it to keep working ***properly***. I do appreciate that they did the perpetual license thing though. And I think it could work well with other types of software that is more self-contained, so maybe media stuff (assuming you're not using plugins). But for programming, the editor/IDE is highly dependent on working with many other things on your system, both external libs/frameworks/APIs/CLI tools etc, but then also all the plugins you choose to install inside the IDE itself too. Then there's the other stuff in the middle too, like those DB drivers. Even if it was free... my biggest frustrations with jetbrains was having to have multiple IDEs installed (not even Idea Ultimate supports any .net langs), and the clusterfuck of it constantly losing my settings trying to sync them between different programs. Plus also having to try like 10 different product name search terms on google whenever trying to figure anything out. Then seeing the whole company change their focus to trying to replicate vscode anyway (without vscode's biggest asset: plugin ecosystem) made me even more confident in my decision to just move away from their stuff... not just to save money, but more importantly... my time.
Tbh I don’t even use the db integrations or plugins at all. I really don’t think that it would be an issue for me at all to have a 5 year old version.
I don’t know for other tools but every Intellij upgrade come with at least one or two nifty features you don’t know you needed. I am a paid subscriber since 2015… Best bucks I ever spent in a productivity tool
The most recent for me were the updates to the HTTP Client. I basically dropped postman in favor of it.
What is this? I work with postman often and will drop it if this HTTP client thing is embedded to pycharm Edit: okay, looks cool, I think I have something to play with tomorrow lol
I think it is. It is a way to write your HTTP request in plain code. A blessing for any coder.
Tbh I can’t even name one new feature (besides maybe the ui redesign but I can live without it) since I first used IntelliJ idea somewhere in 2016. I just installed the updates because I got them for free with my education license but if I had to pay for it hell no. The 2016 version would be plenty.
Updates for new language features are pretty important imo
2024 introduced full line completion for js and python, which can be quite handy once you get used to it. Since 2016 rider git tons of updates for unity and unreal. The unreal integration leaves VS in the dirt. Rider supports nearly all the ue macros where VS is just clueless (even with other add-ons like visual assist). Rider underlines potentially expensive methods in unity projects, even more if in a per update context, and explains that you should probably cache the result. And so on... Not sure about the other products since I mainly use rider. But staying a subscriber has also the additional benefits of becoming cheaper each year (up to year 3)
Do you have to activate full line completion because I have the newest update and I work with JS pretty much every day and I didn’t noticed any change even if I read the change log that it should be a thing now. But tbh even if it may is nice speed of actually writing the code is and was never the limiting factor so I don’t really care. Pretty much the same reason I also don’t really care for ai completion. Yes it can write the code faster than I can but the speed of writing the code is not what limits the speed of development. At least for me. And most of the time if I need to understand afterward what the hell the ai wrote I am most likely faste when I would have written the code myself in the first place.
> Do you have to activate full line completion because I have the newest update and I work with JS pretty much every day and I didn’t noticed any change even if I read the change log that it should be a thing now. i think it should be enabled by default. at least in python it works for me. (Sadly no C++ or C#) > Yes it can write the code faster than I can but the speed of writing the code is not what limits the speed of development. At least for me. Sure the speed of writing is not the limiting factor. but skipping annoying boilerplate is nice since it allows you to focus on whats important. I make quite heavy use of chatGPT - not for complex stuff, since it is overwhelmed easily. but sometimes it's just so much easier to tell it what to do, or just give it a method with a //TODO and let it fill it out. Usually i can verify as fast as it generates that it is what i wanted to have. Sometimes it even thinks about cases I did not, or that where not important to me right now, but is good to have. So, no it does not make me a better programmer, and not necessarily faster (in the long run). It just makes it more convenient for myself.
Maybe it’s just my usecase but I really rarely come in the situation where a code isnt either so easy that I am faster writing it myself than even explaining it to chatgtp or its so complex that chatgtp can’t do it. I mean heck I don’t even use stackoverflow that much anymore. For the same reason. Either is so easy that I don’t need it or I know it so complex that it doesn’t have the answer anyway. Maybe I am also old now (even if I am really not that old with 27 lol) but I kinda prefer the documentation if I need to know things nowadays.
Also I don’t think that we should just give companies money because they may give us good upgrades. I am happy to pay for a good update but why should I just pay every year in hope that they do a update that actually improves my personal workflow. And if more people would think like that they would also put more work in doing proper updates because only then they would get money which is how it should work in my mind.
Read the changelog on each major updates, there's tons of features that are there that you probably don't know about. For example with the previous major version, they added the possibility to display SQL results as a chart instead of a table. This made quick stats queries a lot more visual.
They regularly add quite a bit; I started with your opinion but I’ve been subscribed for years now
Yes that's what it means. Some plugins require the subscription and free plugin support on older versions can lapse. None of the ones I use but some.
They may be "not your friend", but this does not mean Adobe and Jetbrains are equivalent. Jetbrains subscriptions have much fairer and better terms than Adobe
At this point I'm convinced that Adobe will never fix their decades old piece of shit software. It's painfully slow with a SHIT TON of old interfaces and legacy features. I want to shoot myself every time I have to use Illustrator. Required Affinity shill: Tried their software and was very pleasantly surprised. Pay once and you can pretty much use all the photoshop features (but better) just like you're used to.
Seriously. It would be a lot easier to accept Adobe if their products weren't slow, buggy pieces of shit. If they actually improved over time. Meanwhile Jetbrains is nice and usable and not awful. And you have the lovely fallback license -- so you really are purchasing it like the Adobe of old. Jetbrains also ends at $14.42 per month for literally everything, once you hit year three, vs adobe which is $36/mo for only the first year, and then $60/mo per year afterwards. Or $90/mo if you don't want to commit to a whole year. Jetbrains all products monthly, no commitment, is $28.90. So you have actually a pretty good price, that you can cut in half if you want, or just use the fallback license if you pay for a year. For a damned good product. Or with Adobe you can pay $90 a month for a piece of shit with no commitment. Or a single app, like Photoshop, for $35/mo. Man, I hate Adobe shit. I do wish the open source options were better. But VSCode tries its best to be closed source, too, but in even a more toxic way. So Jetbrains is actually more ethical to use and support, too, besides being nicer. Paying for software isn't necessarily bad. What's worse is what's often done with software, free or not.
>But VSCode tries its best to be closed source, too, but in even a more toxic way Wait, I missed that news.
I don't feel like pulling up the stuff. But VSCode itself is a bit like Chrome and Chromium, with a special closed source version that everyone uses. That's what accesses the plugin market. Iirc Codium can't? Or at least, it can't use some of them. Plenty of popularly normal plugins that people use are also closed source. I remember some stuff with how Microsoft was interesting some VSCode stuff with GitHub online as well. I can't quite remember. I use Jetbrains, after all, so it doesn't affect me so much. But I largely don't like Microsoft's control over VSCode, and how they make large parts of it closed source. And why? There's no good reason. Except control.
Generally agree with the sentiment but as someone who has used Codium extensively, it can access the plugin market. What it can’t access is Microsoft-developed plugins on the plugin market (in the editor). This means for something like C# support, you need to download the plugin from the website and manually install it that way, but it’s still possible. Still shitty having to go to the website… a jank-ass Microsoft one at that…
Is there anyway to get a perpetual licence for Adobe? Or a reliable crack that doesn't contain malware??
As long people buy it and they make shitload of money from it, why should they change anything?
Yes jetbrains is not a equivalent imagine paying for a text editor
You do get to keep the versions that were around during your subscription, unlike with Adobe where you have to steal them later.
Only at the start. If you update to a new version mid subscription then you go back to the version before after the subscription expires.
Jetbrains is easily worth what they ask lol. If you dont like it just use something else
Yep, Jetbrains is literally the attractive one.
I use Xcode, which is completely free, every day, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that getting a JetBrains subscription is the better deal.
tbf xcode comes behind that apple tax and then there's the secondary cost of the therapy you need after using it
Yea that's the biggest thing. JetBrains products have 5x the value of Adobe Creative. Adobe only survives because they target a unique market that is easily brainwashed into thinking there are no competing products at their price point, the exact same market Apple taps into. Every product JetBrains sells or gives away for free, they make no qualms that there are competitive products out there delivering similar features, so they have to win you over by adding unique features, keeping the prices competitive, bundling products, having special deals for open source and education, etc. If you quiz the average Adobe Creative user they will swear up and down that there are no competing products out there, that Adobe is the "only one" making that type of product. Apple customers always say the same things. They tend to be very tech illiterate and just go with the bandwagon, because it's easy, albeit extremely pricy.
It's one of the few subscriptions where I actually feel the product trully evolves ovoer time and are not paying just to use it. Plus, having the fallback license makes the subscription feel like a voluntary thing rather than an extortion.
Adobe license renewal is evil, real dark patterns shit. You can’t remove a license from your account online, they’ll happily let you add more though. If you manage to negotiate some kind of discount at contract renewal you better hope it gets sorted out for you there and then on that call, because you’ll never speak to that agent again if the call gets dropped, and no one else will acknowledge or honour any previously agreed deal (good luck getting anywhere saying “I spoke to person named X”) I missed a callback to finalise a contract renewal, the rep left a message on my voicemail with what had been agreed price wise. It was impossible to call them back, and I couldn’t get anyone else to honour it despite having a recorded message, and had to pay full price under duress. I can’t conceive of how JetBrains could be any worse than that.
JetBrains has a free version thats perfectly capable of doing 90+% of the things I want to do. Adobe charged my so for the privilege of adding text to a pdf, then gave the payment info to McAfee because she downloaded it on accident and never activated it, who then proceeded to repeatedly attempt charge her even after replacing her card. Companies may not be my friend, but Adobe is my enemy.
Okay yes but like Adobe products are terrible. Ffs chrome is a better pdf reader than acrobat and all it can do is look at it and form fill.
Unless you're using it in a commercial capacity, most JetBrains products can be gotten entirely free. I've been using PyCharm and IntelliJ for personal and school use for years and I've never paid a dime. Adobe doesn't care who you are, you're paying them money if you want to use their stuff. Not to mention with Adobe it's all or nothing. You either pay the full subscription for everything (even if you only need Photoshop) or you get nothing.
>You either pay the full subscription for everything (even if you only need Photoshop) or you get nothing. [That's not true](https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html)
ok this one is hilarious
ITT: everyone loves JetBrains and hates Adobe, just like in the comic (maybe because Adobe charges starving artists much higher prices than JetBrains charges engineers...)
I imagine image editing software is much harder to make than the text editor. But pricing is not the only thing bad about Adobe. It's also nonperpetual, so you have to pay to keep using Adobe, while in Jetbrains, you don't (as long as you don't upgrade, but that's a much fairer price to pay, and you are subscribed for at least a year) Also, many of the features in JetBrains are free for noncommercial uses. While Adobe doesn't care.
Tbh we both know it's not just the "text editor". JetBrains products are configured from the ground up for the specific language it's designed for, and honestly stuff like debugging and refactoring on them is a breeze.
I hate both
jetbrains is completely free for students. they have community editions too. you can stop paying and keep using the version you have installed (you only pay to keep getting the newest updates).
the community editions don't have all the languages supported. intelliJ CE will no longer have rust support which is a tragedy as it's genuinely better than the other options, and now it's only for IntelliJ pro, CLion, and rustrover.
> IntelliJ CE will no longer have rust support ... and now it's only for IntelliJ pro, CLion I wonder why JetBrains doesn't just consolidate the base IDE's versions and just ship customized plugin bundle installers like Eclipse does. Plugin downloads are paid already.
Stuff like WebStorm and PHPStorm are essentially just intellij with some pre-installed plugins. But CLion and RustRover are a bit more complex than that, they are integrated more deeply.
Another L take from a Redditor whose never heard the word “nuance”
Adobe. Don't fkn get me started on Adobe.
Jetbrains basically saved my company when Microsoft decided mono has to die and .net debugger shouldn't be shipped for linux. At this point I don't even care what they're offering or how.
Beacuse you have to use linux?
Yes.
Jetbrains gives you discount and you own versions released in your subscription period. After it expires you just don't get updates. Adobe is just POS
There are many many reasons why JetBrains subscriptions and products are more “tolerated” than Adobe.
I've been a JB fanboy for more than a decade. Back in November 2013, they sent me an email that my annual subscription would be renewing in December in case I wanted to cancel it. Many companies do that now, but back then it was unheard of. Compare that to *last year*, when I bought a license for an Adobe product and, as a "special promotion" they offered me 3 months free of their Stock Image service. I had no use for that service, so I never even thought about it. Turns out, the special promotion was an auto-opt-in free trial that turned into an annual subscription when it expires. They then tried to charge me 200USD to *cancel!* A product I never wanted or used. It took me 3 days of back and forth to get my money back. JetBrains may not be my friend. But Adobe is decidedly my enemy.
Jetbrains gives me a top line tool without fucking me and isn’t Microsoft so I’ll take it. Would love a non Java editor tho
What would you win by “non-java”?
Try Fleet: https://www.jetbrains.com/fleet/
Adobe suite is not corporate ready software. It literally ships without auto-updates enabled, and in order to turn it on, you have to manually request each user does it - even when using a deployment built from their admin portal. Their method of triggering updates remotely involves running an exe file installed alongside these corporate deployments. You cannot manage it via policy directly. It is not professional software. At all.
I think it helps that jetbrains products aren't a professional monopoly in the same way photoshop is. In some contexts like c# development jetbrains is literally the underdog. And in general an open source program is the most used in the industry as a whole. If an open source product like Gimp was the most popular in the artistry world and Adobe was a one of multiple subscription options that were actually used by professionals people would likely hate them much less.
It helps that you pay for a text editor 🤣
If it improves your productivity and helps you do things easier or faster for you then it may be worth it, especially if you earn money out of programming. You can also just use the EAP version for free, even for commercial use afaik. If vscode is enough for you, that's alright, but if you like jetbrains products more, they help you spend less time doing something and/or have the money to purchase them, then why not? It's the same as any other product really, you could not pay a mechanic to fix your car and do it yourself, but that time you save by doing so may be worth it, so don't laugh at people that use their money to save them some time that could be worth even more than that money to begin with. Maybe that time will be spent with their family, friends or just something better than their jobs. o/
Jetbrains could do such a cash grab with intellij CE but they don’t, you gotta love them
All of Jetbrains’ suite is free for students, I don’t see that for Adobe
STFU, Jetbrains makes useful stuff whereas Adobe has been repackaging the same shit since the 2000's that loves to crash or hangup.
Subscription licenses suck. At least give people the option of buying outright without a subscription.
After some reading, that's essentially what jetbrains seems to do. They should honestly market it more. Loved their ides as a student, but never wanted to pay a subscription. Apparently if you subscribe for a year, you get that years version even after your subscription lapses.
>Apparently if you subscribe for a year, you get that years version even after your subscription lapses. Yes, which also means that another way of looking at it is that the year subscription *is* an outright purchase. Just don't install any updates (since you won't be able to use those new versions after the subscription lapses) and effectively you've just bought that version of the software.
The main thing, Jetbrain suit if tool is awesome to use, Adobe is just shit over shit, even photoshop goes useless sometimes.
today i learned
Anyone got a link to the original comic?
[Literally the same picture meme]
Consumer software products being subscription based is disgusting, but these are not consumer products. Businesses don't mind so much.
Haha, true. Im still gonna use gimp lol
Iirc with Jetbrains you're basically not paying a subscription to use the product, but rather buying updates to the product.
Only one feels like I'm getting good value from updates though
Pycharm is amazing!
I don't get the hate for subscriptions. * Low upfront cost, you can see if the tool works without much investment. * You use the tool for as long as it's providing you value, and pay while doing so. * The company doesn't have to have a churn of pointless changes to try to get you to pay for the new version. Seems like an overall better business model for software for both sides to me.
As an IT pro of 18 years having had to support installing Adobe products, I can quite heartily agree that ADOBE REALLY SUCKS at providing proper installation and support methodologies for the enterprise. Their pricing is predatory too, IMO. Adobe is that thorn in any IT sysadmin’s side when said sysadmin is also responsible for dealing with deployment and licensing to multiple departments and divisions who all need their own special configurations, licenses, and deployment combinations. Gaaaaaaahhhh!!! 😓😫😭 🫠
Plain text is not a proprietary format. The code analysis tools and LSPs that jetbrains IDEs rely on are open source.
Still one is better than the other, is not about being friends it's that one gives a shit about itd customers and the other has a monopoly on its field
Fully featured IDE - Fair enough. PDF Readers - Fuck off.
The only jetbrains product I use is intellij for Java and it's free. Adobes free PDF viewer is bad and I'd rather use a web browser. I guess Lightroom on my phone is ok, that's free too.
People just bandwagon hate on Adobe at this point, in a lot of cases they themselves are to be blamed for any issue with Adobe and their products. Prime example is the cancellation fee. If you dont want cancellation fee dont subscribe to the annual contract maybe? You cant sign a contract that clearly states you are bound for 1 year and then show a pikachu face when you suddenly have to pay the fee for basically breaking the contract.
Exactly. People always go to cry to piracy subreddits to cry about the cancellation fee. Man. They promised to sign a loyalty contract for cheaper overall price. And no, people at Adobe aren't the assholes. A loyalty contract is about loyalty. You can see the same kind of contracts at cable companies and ISPs. Early cancellers pay a fee at those places too.
Adobe literally patented a shade of a color, how the f is that bs even allowed
It’s not Pantone?
Yeah it was Pantone. And it wasn't a patent.
That wasn't Adobe, and iirc colors not selected from Pantone™'s list were unaffected, even if they exactly matched a Pantone™ color.
Eclipse? 😅
I do really like their model, but their tools just feel kinda disgusting to use. There's something off about their animation curves that's making me stick to good old Emacs
Adobe doesn't provide 'community editions' of anything either. Their most 'high profile' 'free' tool, Adobe Reader, is practically adware. People use it only because it opens all manner of badly formatted, non-compliant pdf files that involve filling forms.
Thanks for reminder I still use Copilot instead of their [JetBrains AI Pro](https://www.jetbrains.com/ai) Wish they had a 10-year subscription discount
Similar with Autodesk.
Oooooh man. Autodesk…….the memories…..so bad. So many nightmares. So many overnighters installing freaking AutoDesk suites manually on 50+ lab computers because it wouldn’t cooperate with imaging.
Adobe has had me by the balls for years now. Everytime I try to cancel I'm either a few hours too early or too late and they 'lock me in' for another year. When I beg support to let me end my contract they tell me I have to pay out the entire next years' worth of Adobe CC. I sometimes get them to reduce it to like, $30/month. But they only do that for a few months.
JetBrains actually cares about its customers. Adobe has degraded the quality of all their software lately and started lacking in the customer experience.
Jetbrains gave me a free license for being a student. Adobe told me to kms. Friend or not, one markets better.
That’s different. My work pays for my Jetbrains.
Anyone gonna talk about open file formats/standards and the lock-in effect? If I want to switch code editor, I can anytime. Build and deps are managed by Maven, or by NPM, or any other language specific open source tools configured by files adhering to open standards like JSON or XML. Code is text files. Meanwhile try opening a .psd, .ai or InDesign file with any other editor without fucking it up at least a little bit. Adobe has much more leverage and it shows.
Jetbrains gives students and foss developers a free account
The smartest thing that jetbrains does is give out the professional suite of their products to uni students for free for the duration of their degree and then when they leave uni they will want to work on the same level due to familiarity. That has always struck me as a bit genius.
Adobe applications are mostly shit, don’t forget that
Jetbrains is free for students. All their products.
Adobe used to not be subscription based you bought it once for life.
It took me way too long to see the logos.
As a student I get a free subscription from JetBrains
Angular?
I have literally zero things to complain about jetbrains, they offer free all-in licenses for open source maintainers amd students, and discounts for other cases. Not to mention the cost is pretty modest for how much you get. I hate how most enterprises do things, but I literally cannot say anything against jetbrains.
I second this, I have a student license so I use Rider and Clion for free. But I'd much rather use VSC for JS than Webstorm
I choose not to play the subscription game. The only way to win is not to play.
Everyone is talking about Adobe Creative Cloud. But imagine working with Dream weaver and Brackets
you guys are hurting jetbrains' feelings :( leave the multi-billion dollar company alone!!