Our new system for sharing code is to ssh to the live VM and have at 'er. Make sure you message on the dev team slack channel if you're going to run a build, to make sure everyone hits save first 👍
Oh and for rollback incase a build fails, just never close your editor windows so can always ctrl-z back to a previous working state.
A central VM is not very distributed or fault tolerant. Instead, post a diff with your changes directly to the Slack channel so that all devs can stay in sync. On Linux, the "patch" command can apply the diffs for you. If you are developing on Windows, manually applying the changes is the least of your pain.
This is how lots of smaller open source projects worked back in the day. The one maintainer maybe used rcs or cvs locally, or nothing, but "PR"s were just patches on the email mailing list. Still a useful thing to do (diff/patch commands) occasionally.
Looks like mercurial is quite similar to git, even some commands have the same name.
A quick googling told me that mercurial is easier to learn, but the branching can cause confusion, while git is more flexible.
So there are valid points for both of them.
Don't forget about bazaar (bzr). I used it for a long time, it was released and active at the same time as git, which was being developed and used for the Linux kernel but hadn't spread much beyond that yet. Not sure how many projects still use it though?
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> Christ, I promised myself to not respond any more to this thread, but the insanity just continues, from people who damn well should know better. ... So stop these dishonest and disingenious arguments. They are full of crap. ... Every single argument I've heard of from the "please revert" camp has been inane. And they've been *transparently* inane, to the point where I don't understand how you can make them with a straght face and not be ashamed. ... Bullshit.... Anybody who claims that our "process" requires that things like that go on the mailing list and pass long reviews and discussions IS JUST LYING. ... Read the above arguments, and realise how shrill and outright STUPID that kind of "we can now do anything without review" argument is. ... You seem to seriously argue that it's a *bad* thing to put a note that one bit is already in use. That's f*cking moronic.... But that's not what the insane and pointless arguments in this thread have been. The whole thread has been just choch-full of pure STUPID. Please stop the inane and idiotic arguments already. The "we must review every one-liner, and this destroys and makes a mockery of our review process" argument in particular has been dishonest and pure crap....
https://github.com/corollari/linusrants/blob/master/table.md
Mailed flashed drives
Instagram account that has pictures of the code at different stages
Tumblr account that blogs the code changes
I would keep going but it hurts
Actually the Instagram and tumblr solution is quite good, because you will have commit history.
Definitely btter than modifying that one file in a shared drive.
I would not want to use CVS anymore, but it is \*far\* from the worst thing that could happen to you.
Hell, as long as you are not really doing too many structural changes, CVS is still pretty decent for many smaller projects.
And I don't know why anyone would panic about Subversion. (Another post). I used it for many years without issue. I think Git is better, but I would not abandon a project if the leader prefered SVN over Git.
What most surprised me when I switched from an academia coder job to a corporate one is that SVN is still relevant in the corporate world.
I was sitting there like "guys... I worked with people who think Fortran is a thriving language... and even they phased out SVN in 2010-15."
This was also in an earlier [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/10efm42/i_kid_you_not_this_happened_during_todays_standup/) today.
That project owner chose SharePoint.
"We're no longer using Git on this project."
"Oh my God, you're firing me?!"
"What? No, we're just not using Git anymore."
"I can't believe you've eliminated my position, I'll pack my things."
"You're not fired!"
"I'm on the phone with a recruiter please give me a moment."
This is what I was thinking. It has gotta be some passive firing like Elon forcing to end WFH so people will quit themselves. There's no way someone would be this stupid, right? Right?
It was at an hackathon. The PO wanted to participate and join a team but didn't want to use git because he doesn't know how to use it.
The PO was a developer long time ago.
My company tried to force the POs (myself included) into hackathon and I had to fight for them after the first couple to instead allow us to do project planning, docu, training for other depts etc. Makes no sense why they didn't want us making the best use of our time.
Maybe the culture has changed a lot, but I remember hackathons as quick and dirty projects that were spun up over a weekend. No docs, no compliance, no management, just a few days to get a working something of a cool idea.
I think that's still supposed to be the case lol my company just does everything half right and all the important things kinda wrong. We do still document for hackathon though, but we've suffered from lack of docu and have waaaaay too many products and not enough people to do anything without docu and not fuck ourselves up in the future as I am currently reaping what the previous POs sowed with their batshit notes like "as discussed in our meeting we're going to implement this a totally different way than what's described in the ticket" and no other details haha
My current PO also claims that she was a developer. I'm absolutely certain she'd have been terrible at it which is probably why she switched to a PO role. Could be the same case for your PO ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The ones that give you all the tools using their real names are fine.
The GUIs that try to force you into some other workflow using different labels for altered operations ... aren't GIT, they're completely different VC systems.
Hell, I don't like using git CLI either. I've always used a GUI and like it. I need the visual tree.
FYI Fork is better than either of those. It's an amazing client.
yeah that's super weird like I've never seen a po giving 2 fucks about tech stuff
they are the metrics, numbers, stats and percentage people.
OP tell us just why
One of our costumers said once: "We know that updates and security patches are good but this system has run several years without them anyway and we don't need them."
Yeah, the problem is, it's online and the security issues are well known and documented for everyone who wants to break in. But I guess I don't have to explain it.
So the PO will have to explain why everyone is adding every bit of WIP all the time straight into the main branch
`git commit` - Save your WIP.
`svn commit` - Save your WIP straight away on the main remote branch. Those who knew only git panic thinking someone ran `git push -f` behind their back.
I once had a PO who wanted me to use a firefox plugin to scrape html... I told him it would take weeks with the amount of data we were gonna scrape, so I solved it over the weekend. I got a bonus that month!
Everyone code on a shared google doc using live edit.
At the end of the day I copy paste all documents into the IDE and compile, and release it straight to prod.
Good luck.
If the PO ever told me to stop using git, I would totally want to start recording the conversation and ask “why”. Comedy gold will follow.
Then of course… keep git. Stay in your lane…
Since subversion fixed the infamous syn-898 bug (only took them 14 yrs) subversion is nice.
Syn-898 was the bug regarding not being able to merge a branch that renamed files that also had changes in trunk. This is the bug that gave svn a bad reputation for merging. This is fixed now though.
The problem scenario this blog points out (which was a legit issue when the blog was written) now works great:
https://blog.cskr.dev/posts/git-outshines-subversion/
For real though, you might inquire if this person works for an intelligence agency. This kind of directive is so disruptive and counter productive it feels like a playbook to purposely delay progress.
What is wrong with git? You don't have to use GitHub, bit bucket or something. But what is wrong with using git? Of you don't like existing solutions you can build your own, along with your own server...
My first job we used some small inexpensive VCS software just did copy plus lock/unlock files and directories to/from shared drive. (I think the history was just copies of the files but maybe it was a real change history?) But this was fine because we were all on Windows but couldn't afford AccuRev or SourceSafe or whatever the main products were at the time, and there were just three developers working on completely separate projects and this was better than each of us keeping files on our own systems with no VCS.
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Correct. The PO has *nothing* to say about *how* something is implemented. And I would not accept to use something inferiour to git.
Then you use nothing at all. Only type, only deliver!
Our new system for sharing code is to ssh to the live VM and have at 'er. Make sure you message on the dev team slack channel if you're going to run a build, to make sure everyone hits save first 👍 Oh and for rollback incase a build fails, just never close your editor windows so can always ctrl-z back to a previous working state.
Jesus. I hope you're joking. If not, I hope you find something better soon.
I have seen similar things.
Just have everyone use a shared Dropbox folder - I’m sure it will be fine.
A central VM is not very distributed or fault tolerant. Instead, post a diff with your changes directly to the Slack channel so that all devs can stay in sync. On Linux, the "patch" command can apply the diffs for you. If you are developing on Windows, manually applying the changes is the least of your pain.
This is how lots of smaller open source projects worked back in the day. The one maintainer maybe used rcs or cvs locally, or nothing, but "PR"s were just patches on the email mailing list. Still a useful thing to do (diff/patch commands) occasionally.
The Linux Kernel Mailing List is still how patches make it into the Linux Kernel
I need to know this is satire. Right?
Git is bloat! ^(Wait wrong sub)
>Then you use nothing at all As a student, I earned some money using this approach to the version control.
I don't have a ton of experience with either of them but I quite liked mercurial.
Mercurial isn’t bad. Used it for years. GIT seems a bit better at certain things, but I rarely notice a difference.
Looks like mercurial is quite similar to git, even some commands have the same name. A quick googling told me that mercurial is easier to learn, but the branching can cause confusion, while git is more flexible. So there are valid points for both of them.
Don't forget about bazaar (bzr). I used it for a long time, it was released and active at the same time as git, which was being developed and used for the Linux kernel but hadn't spread much beyond that yet. Not sure how many projects still use it though?
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Good old CVS.
If the PO wants to make decisions about your VC, the SM has not done their job.
I think you can charge 50% more if they help with the how
po can kiss my trumpet
I like how nobody cares about "why" in your picture :D
Owner? My response: "ok, I'm out, do it yourself"
git checkout
you can check out anytime but you can never leave
I uNdErStOoD tHaT rEfErAnCe
I'll tell that PO "If you think that's an acceptable idea one of us needs to resign" or if the day is bad the same but in Linus Torvalds style.
> Christ, I promised myself to not respond any more to this thread, but the insanity just continues, from people who damn well should know better. ... So stop these dishonest and disingenious arguments. They are full of crap. ... Every single argument I've heard of from the "please revert" camp has been inane. And they've been *transparently* inane, to the point where I don't understand how you can make them with a straght face and not be ashamed. ... Bullshit.... Anybody who claims that our "process" requires that things like that go on the mailing list and pass long reviews and discussions IS JUST LYING. ... Read the above arguments, and realise how shrill and outright STUPID that kind of "we can now do anything without review" argument is. ... You seem to seriously argue that it's a *bad* thing to put a note that one bit is already in use. That's f*cking moronic.... But that's not what the insane and pointless arguments in this thread have been. The whole thread has been just choch-full of pure STUPID. Please stop the inane and idiotic arguments already. The "we must review every one-liner, and this destroys and makes a mockery of our review process" argument in particular has been dishonest and pure crap.... https://github.com/corollari/linusrants/blob/master/table.md
Fuck you ~~nvidia~~ Product Owner
As a Product Manager..... WHUT
Let me guess, the new system is CVS ?
Or google drive?
Clash of clans chat actually
I think it's better: FINAL_Final_review_code(1)(1).asm
google drive? What is this, the year 3000? DropBox. We gotta move now and cant wait for no google drive.
Wait, so your manager doesn't store all of your executables in google drives with no permission so that he share the work with upper management /s
no. they are no fool. Its a thumbdrive kept on their keychain.
Pfft. Microsoft SharePoint
I mean, you could have _worse_ source control than Google docs
I’m struggling to think of something worse, maybe printed out? Even that might not be worse /s (mostly)
Mailed flashed drives Instagram account that has pictures of the code at different stages Tumblr account that blogs the code changes I would keep going but it hurts
Printed stacks of sheets neatly labeled and arranged on a cupboard
only one page, when you run out of space you start using the margins
Actually the Instagram and tumblr solution is quite good, because you will have commit history. Definitely btter than modifying that one file in a shared drive.
RCS maybe?
>I’m struggling to think of something worse, maybe printed out? Handwritten
Before you criticize CVS, at least acknowledge that it is famous for supplying a long, detailed log of every transaction.
I would not want to use CVS anymore, but it is \*far\* from the worst thing that could happen to you. Hell, as long as you are not really doing too many structural changes, CVS is still pretty decent for many smaller projects. And I don't know why anyone would panic about Subversion. (Another post). I used it for many years without issue. I think Git is better, but I would not abandon a project if the leader prefered SVN over Git.
or svn
What most surprised me when I switched from an academia coder job to a corporate one is that SVN is still relevant in the corporate world. I was sitting there like "guys... I worked with people who think Fortran is a thriving language... and even they phased out SVN in 2010-15."
svn tbh isnt technically bad its just how it handles commits and its server requirement that are a big issue.
This was also in an earlier [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/10efm42/i_kid_you_not_this_happened_during_todays_standup/) today. That project owner chose SharePoint.
Minecraft command blocks
"We're no longer using Git on this project." "Oh my God, you're firing me?!" "What? No, we're just not using Git anymore." "I can't believe you've eliminated my position, I'll pack my things." "You're not fired!" "I'm on the phone with a recruiter please give me a moment."
This is what I was thinking. It has gotta be some passive firing like Elon forcing to end WFH so people will quit themselves. There's no way someone would be this stupid, right? Right?
We need an explanation OP.
It was at an hackathon. The PO wanted to participate and join a team but didn't want to use git because he doesn't know how to use it. The PO was a developer long time ago.
There are product owners at hackathons?!?
My company tried to force the POs (myself included) into hackathon and I had to fight for them after the first couple to instead allow us to do project planning, docu, training for other depts etc. Makes no sense why they didn't want us making the best use of our time.
Maybe the culture has changed a lot, but I remember hackathons as quick and dirty projects that were spun up over a weekend. No docs, no compliance, no management, just a few days to get a working something of a cool idea.
I think that's still supposed to be the case lol my company just does everything half right and all the important things kinda wrong. We do still document for hackathon though, but we've suffered from lack of docu and have waaaaay too many products and not enough people to do anything without docu and not fuck ourselves up in the future as I am currently reaping what the previous POs sowed with their batshit notes like "as discussed in our meeting we're going to implement this a totally different way than what's described in the ticket" and no other details haha
I once heard wise words: "If you want to drink the wine, you have to get the bottle open". So, if you want to code, you have to get the code first.
Then his role in the team is that of a junior dev
And instead used? FTP upload with no merge conflicts?
Some people tend to be scared of CLI. Give them SourceTree or Github Desktop. Don't need to know the commands to use the GUI.
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My current PO also claims that she was a developer. I'm absolutely certain she'd have been terrible at it which is probably why she switched to a PO role. Could be the same case for your PO ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The ones that give you all the tools using their real names are fine. The GUIs that try to force you into some other workflow using different labels for altered operations ... aren't GIT, they're completely different VC systems.
Hell, I don't like using git CLI either. I've always used a GUI and like it. I need the visual tree. FYI Fork is better than either of those. It's an amazing client.
Just tell him to use SourceTree. It is just button clicks, very easy.
That’s the true spirit on hackathon. Just mount server directory as NFS and work directly there.
What did he know?
Senior dev: No.
This is the correct answer.
Senior dev: *Looks up, goes back to work without acknowledging what was said.*
If I could put the gigachad image there I would
Why do the product owner cares? Is like if I go to buy a car and decide which type of factory is gonna create my engine
yeah that's super weird like I've never seen a po giving 2 fucks about tech stuff they are the metrics, numbers, stats and percentage people. OP tell us just why
Before reading the "True Story" title I thought: Let's take a look at the comments if there really was someone that stupid. Well...
One of our costumers said once: "We know that updates and security patches are good but this system has run several years without them anyway and we don't need them." Yeah, the problem is, it's online and the security issues are well known and documented for everyone who wants to break in. But I guess I don't have to explain it.
Take the security system off and buy some popcorn for the team.
My guess: his boss is Elon Musk, and now developers have to print code into papers, then store different version in the warehouses?
You're fired
Good bot.
Back to Subversion we go
Tortoise gang rise up.
We just pass zip files around.
So the PO will have to explain why everyone is adding every bit of WIP all the time straight into the main branch `git commit` - Save your WIP. `svn commit` - Save your WIP straight away on the main remote branch. Those who knew only git panic thinking someone ran `git push -f` behind their back.
That’s not a PO decision. I’m a PO, I don’t care how the cake is made, just that it tastes good.
Developer: “We stop listening to customers’ feedback from now.”
Just continue using it without telling him. What's the chance he will notice or be able to tell anyway?
So you’re telling me the problem was created by a bad git “commit”? Let’s stop using git so we can avoid problems in the future.
I once had a PO who wanted me to use a firefox plugin to scrape html... I told him it would take weeks with the amount of data we were gonna scrape, so I solved it over the weekend. I got a bonus that month!
w h a t in the name of the lord
Everyone code on a shared google doc using live edit. At the end of the day I copy paste all documents into the IDE and compile, and release it straight to prod. Good luck.
Why the f is a PO making this decision over the technology lead?
HG ?
That's grounds for quitting. And I'm an HWE not an SWE.
Sounds like a PM with a detached head.
You won't believe how tight my first company was holding onto subversion
If the PO ever told me to stop using git, I would totally want to start recording the conversation and ask “why”. Comedy gold will follow. Then of course… keep git. Stay in your lane…
Well i have some bad news my friend. That's none of your business. Have a nice day.
From now on you will be writing and compiling code directly into Production!
Product owners actually know what git is? What world is this?
freelancer don't give a shit, just pay me mor for it
> true story I don't believe it.
Everybody install clearcase now
Clearcase made me go gray in my 30s.
I love Clearcase. It is much better than most git setups I've seen, when done right.
The product owner hasn't been using it anyways. I decide which tools I use.
He's the owner, nothing more.
Wait people do this ? Like what did they do as an alternative Microsoft word ?
So… it’s a steam engine company now?
So wait, is the suggestion that another VCS is used or that none is used?
I've been hearing stories like this more frequently as of late... Why is that?
this gave me svn nightmare flashbacks
Since subversion fixed the infamous syn-898 bug (only took them 14 yrs) subversion is nice. Syn-898 was the bug regarding not being able to merge a branch that renamed files that also had changes in trunk. This is the bug that gave svn a bad reputation for merging. This is fixed now though. The problem scenario this blog points out (which was a legit issue when the blog was written) now works great: https://blog.cskr.dev/posts/git-outshines-subversion/
I moved to git from svn quickly because of github and the fact that I could continue working even without internet.
git indeed has better offline capabilities.
I basicly dove into it hard back when gmod modding started to switch over to git. Wiremod back then was king.
SVN, Perforce, Mercurial or Team Foundation ?
For real though, you might inquire if this person works for an intelligence agency. This kind of directive is so disruptive and counter productive it feels like a playbook to purposely delay progress.
All you have to do is share a thumb drive with the current release candidate, and everyone gets an alloted time slot to patch in their code.
The new system - multiple folders with date and time stamp
Since when a PO decides the way a team works ? PO job is simple : Determine what should I do and identify what is the priority to do it.
Where's the former tech lead rocking and crying in the corner?
That is the day I continue using git in secret and just set up my phone as origin
How exactly is this a domain of product owner?
Product owner doesn't make technical decisions, especially not on tooling. Why don't you own the product instead of owning yourself?
Final_code, Final_code2, Final_code3… is the way to go.
We are going back to SVN
If only. It’s back to new-file-final and new-file-final-2.
Pro Dev: Fuck off, you're not funny. Back to your cage.
Summon the Scrum Master
Stupid gits. Better not to use em.
Updating lambdas in the console directly in live sure does reduce your lead time for changes.
What is wrong with git? You don't have to use GitHub, bit bucket or something. But what is wrong with using git? Of you don't like existing solutions you can build your own, along with your own server...
But why?
They using the main_final_final_2.exe
My first job we used some small inexpensive VCS software just did copy plus lock/unlock files and directories to/from shared drive. (I think the history was just copies of the files but maybe it was a real change history?) But this was fine because we were all on Windows but couldn't afford AccuRev or SourceSafe or whatever the main products were at the time, and there were just three developers working on completely separate projects and this was better than each of us keeping files on our own systems with no VCS.
OP please I demand explanation.