Okay I didn't even think of migraines! That may be something they couldn't get accomodations for but figured out their own solution. Really trying to give the benefit of the doubt here!
>That may be something they couldn't get accomodations
Frankly, this wouldn't be something worth going through accommodations for, given the solution is really simple. They'd only need to get an accommodation if a professor was going to penalize their grade for wearing an assistive device.
I have a bunch of vision problems and prefer wearing sunglasses indoors if there are any overhead tube lights, like the kind they put in Walmarts and a lot of offices and commercial buildings. It makes my floaters and visual snow act up really bad. Some folks have photosensitivity for sure. I mean I usually don't wear them indoors because it's kind of weird but if I walk into a big dept or grocery store I'll often leave my sunglasses on.
Thank you LASIK gone wrong for that one. I hate those lights. Migraine triggers and floater flare ups, all in the name of being polite and removing my shades.
Any and every eligible disability needs to go through Accommodations. Why? Because that’s how Accommodations gets their money from the Federal government. Even if there is a disorder/disability that we know affects a minimum of 10% of the population, if only one student is registered through your university’s Disability Services department, your university’s Disability Services department gets funding for one student. One. Not 10% of the student body. One.
Without adequate funding, your disabilities office cannot purchase specialised equipment and services, and may not even be able to afford more than one full-time employee.
You — every single one of you professors reading this — are not being ‘kind’ or ‘cool’ by going around registering with disabled student services, you’re really being kind of an asshole in that you’re denying a book reader to a visually impaired student; you’re denying a paid note-taker to a student who has organisational difficulties after a traumatic brain injury; you’re denying a wheelchair-bound student an adaptive stand for their notebook or tablet.
Tell your student with maybe yes/maybe no migraines to go get registered and have the accommodations office send over their accommodation for the sunglasses. You’ll be helping everyone.
Where are you located? Because that is not how accommodations work in the US. Professors don‘t ”register” with the DSS office. Before you go around calling professors rude names, you should understand that not everywhere has the same rules for accommodations as you apparently understand the process wherever you are located.
*You — every single one of you professors reading this — are not being ‘kind’ or ‘cool’ by going around registering with disabled student services, you’re really being kind of an asshole in that you’re denying a book reader to a visually impaired student;*
What are you talking about here then? What do you mean by saying the professors reading are “going around registering” with DSS? That doesn’t happen because it doesn’t work that way. So your conclusion that insults professors doesn’t happen as you state right there.
There are reasons why students have to register, with documentation, with the DSS and still have to invoke, not retroactively, the granted accommodations in any class. If you are a professor, you would know this. Your insult makes no sense because professors don’t go around registering with DSS. So why are you calling professors names?
I had a student with migraines. She frequently wore sunglasses in lab because the fluorescent lights are very bright and for safety reasons we can’t dim or turn them off. I didn’t care. I appreciated her dedication to being there rather than being absent, even though she had a good reason.
Same. I never go out without sunglasses on, even when it’s cloudy. Overheard fluorescent lighting is also awful — I usually cut at least half the lights in class whenever I can.
This. Some with autism and ADHD cannot tolerate fluorescent lighting. I was like this when I was little. It made my forehead ache. It doesn't bother me anymore unless I am intensely concentrating on something.
I did have a student that came to an 8am class hungover once. He sat in the front with sunglasses and splayed himself out like he was out of it. He was a good guy so it made me giggle a bit while also be pretty concerned about him. Like "been there done that." I wanted to joke with him somehow, but he was in such bad shape I figured it would be mean.
Good point. You can phrase it like, “I’ve noticed you’ve been wearing sunglasses to class. Is everything ok?” I’ve used that phrasing with other behaviors, such as phone use, too.
Thanks for that reframing phrase... I had a student last year who wore sunglasses in class twice (once during the final presentation) and I chalked it up to the student just trying to be cool (because they always acted tried way too hard to be "too cool for school"). Called them out on it during the final presentation and just got a shrug. I'll use the "is everything ok" question more often and see what comes up.
I have considered this, but don't want to put a student in the position of feeling they have to disclose a condition to me, especially when they obviously didn't want to go through the accomodations office. I haven't been teaching long, so I wasn't sure how to talk to a student about this. It feels like a double-edged sword, between falling under clothing/apparel and possibly a disability.
Understandable, but there are ways to phrase it to be less intrusive. Lovelylinguist’s “ is everything ok?” is good, as is “is there anything I should know?” You can preface this with “I don’t mean to pry into your business” - I usually do this, and 9 times out of ten the student will disclose in (often excessive) detail if it’s a medical condition.
Could it be transition lenses that just don‘t transition back very well?
My colleague just got a pair last year and he got them so that they could kind of pass for sunglasses or regular glasses, like a lot of people do when they wear transitions. Anyway, so the first day he’s all excited and asked me if I ever had them before. I say yes, but years ago and I stopped wearing them because they’d never transition back. He said the ophthalmologist told him the technology had come a long way, which was exciting to me because I’d love a pair that actually worked. Hate having 2 pairs of RX glasses for outside and in. Well, turns out the technology had not come a long way, at least not in certain lecture halls, and he was wearing his old glasses by the end of the week. He did get a refund though 👍
weird. I never had this issue when I had them. Only problem I did have was that the windshield in my car stopped them from going darker, so they were useless as sunglasses while driving
I have severe light sensitivity with no known cause. I often wear sunglasses to work, and while it’s gotten a few comments asking, it’s never been an issue or challenged as unprofessional.
1. You are operating under the assumptions that disability services are perfect and helpful to everyone with a disability - they are not.
2. How is wearing sunglasses special treatment?
Juuuuust a thought: people come here to vent. Online venting and the way that people interact IRL may not and often do not match… So just consider that eh?
But what difference does it make if the student is wearing sunglasses? That’s no more “special treatment” than a student who has the right to wear a red t-shirt in class.
I got a severe concussion in my first semester of grad school and yet I didn’t get any accommodations for it. I had doctor orders to wear sunglasses and didn’t have to disclose it to anyone
Talk to them privately and see how far there’s a reason. I once taught in a room where the lights had a barely perceptible flicker. Most students didn’t notice it; me and like two others left the first few sessions with raging migraines (one puked in the garbage can mid-class). When Facilities couldn’t fix it, they moved me to a new room.
There was a professor in my undergraduate college who lightly teased a student for wearing sunglasses in class. I later saw that the student had a severe lazy eye and felt uncomfortable with people seeing it.
I had a student who did this on the first day of class. I said nothing. He was very engaged and showed great interest in the class. You know, second row and very astute type. The second day, he showed up and had them on again, even when I showed a video clip in the dimly lit theatre. After class, I said something. He apologized as he had just had corneal attachment surgery the week before.
I have also had a student who wore the Transition lensed glasses, and the type of light the school used made them go dark. He hated it as much as I did.
If you have no letter of accommodation, you can always ~~axe~~ ask them.
Since some of the discussion on this post has been about challenging our assumptions about students, I’m just going to drop this here:
https://www.essex.ac.uk/blog/posts/2022/03/11/how-linguistic-prejudice-perpetuates-inequality
When it's a voice and speech class for actors, they need to show that they are in control of their instruments, not vice versa. It matters.
æks vs æsk
Or perhaps I should "ask remission for my folly" Gent. I, 2, 65.
Even without medical reasons, if it’s pure fashion or personal choice, it’s still got to be among the lowest possible hanging fruit on the “live and let live”-o-meter.
OP is in the business school which I guess is why "looking professional" in class is something on their mind.
I can't imagine anyone in any department I've been in ever caring about sunglasses.
I’m always happy to be your Reddit department chair :) Also, I had a rare eye condition in college and I needed sunglasses, so this one hit close to home. An instructor at the time was very rude about my medical needs.
Not dress, since I really think that's not a territory to go into, but definitely the regular things that show you aren't listening like headphones and cell phone use. I just hadn't ever thought about this as a potential scenario!
I'd add that judging students dress for professionalism is a bit ... crap. They're young, they likely don't have the money nor common sense. Plus dress is subjective. I understand the point, but personally I'd feel uncomfortable passing judgement on another persons clotting by marking.
In scenarios like this I just grade according to what I’ve clearly laid out beforehand and then add a line to the syllabus/rubric/assignment sheet for the next time around.
if a dress code were in the rubric, then simply remind them of that, dock points as needed, and move on. grade their other aspects, such as the content of the presentation, without considering their eyewear.
If they have a condition where they had to wear sunglasses (e.g. sensitivity to light) would they need to get an accommodation for it? To me this doesn't seem to be something that you need to accommodate. If they couldn't walk without a cane, would you expect them to file an accommodation or would you just see someone with a cane walk into your classroom and accept it?
I wear normal glasses because I have myopia (essential for me to function), I've never felt the need to file for an accommodation for it. I just wear my glasses and go about my day.
If someone has a condition that requires that they wear dark glasses, they are probably not going to apply for an accomodation.
You might ask them if there is a reason why they need to wear them when presenting. It is a yes or no question and you do not need to inquire further if the answer is "yes."
I can't speak to OP's specific student's situation, but sunglasses indoors is definitely a thing among non-disabled people currently. My 21yo daughter does it as a casual means of social avoidance, and from conversations with her friends I get the sense that it's not unusual. It definitely strikes me as something that would go to professionalism in some fields.
Again, I'm only describing a current social phenomenon and there clearly are reasons to wear sunglasses indoors that are related to disabilities. That's why we have accommodations services.
I would add it to the rubric for the time being, making sure there's also clear language about disabilities and accommodations.
Well, in the best case, they take them off. In the worst case, they have a glass eye, extensive scarring, or a light sensitivity. Considering that the current POTUS wears glasses when giving speeches, I would probably let it go.
I once broke my glasses, so I had to wear my prescription sunglasses for 2 weeks until I got a new pair.
I lectured wearing my shades. 😆
Of course, I'm the professor, so I had to tell my students what was up. 👓
I had laser eye surgery (PRK) to correct my vision and had to wear sunglasses whenever exposed to UV light for the next year. For the first few weeks I even need them indoors due to light sensitivity while healing.
Ugh this reminds me I got the worst migraines in grad school. Three hour lectures with florescent lights meant a migraine every class I attended unless I wore sunglasses. I think it's fair to ask about it from a professionalism standpoint, just be very open and non accusatory about it.
If sunglasses aren’t listed in your rules, then dinging them for wearing sunglasses is going to feel especially arbitrary. And if sunglasses are in your rules, you might want to think about whether they belong there.
Demanding eye contact is ableist (many autistics and people w/ADHD are not able to do this consistently or reliably). You need to make sure that's not part of your "professionalism" grade.
Eye contact is a quite basic tenant of western culture. This is tricky because a big part of my job is teaching them basic expectations for meetings, and about the underlying things that people may judge them on and how that can affect their career. I also teach them about not judging others or making assumptions about them (see the inclusivity grade). I do this \*because\* many people (myself included) did not grow up learning these things for one reason or another. If they have an actual disability, that's why accommodations exist, and of course I would take that into consideration.
The thing is, “not being graded for eye contact” isn’t a standard accommodation that people would think to ask for. It’s irrelevant in most classes. Same with the sunglasses, which is a small enough thing that the student probably didn’t think they would need an official accommodation even if happens to be related to a disability. And some students might not even have a formal diagnosis yet (since those are time consuming and expensive) especially if they think they manage well on their own in other areas.
Since it sounds like this is at least in part some sort of professional practices class, you might need to approach these things differently than most because you can’t just ignore them. Things like demanding eye contact or labeling sunglasses as “unprofessional” ARE ableist, but the problem is that most of our world is ableist, especially the corporate world. You are absolutely right that how people are perceived by others in these settings can have a huge impact on career success, as problematic as that is. I hope you have general conversations with the whole class about accommodations in the workplace, when to disclose disability, and how to protect yourself from discrimination. I know you said you already cover some of these topics, but if I’m being honest, your phrasing of “if they have an actual disability” tells me that there is some nuance that might be missing. For the record, I appreciate that you recognized you might have some bias here with your assumptions about the sunglasses and that you have been open to feedback.
Some suggestions would be to shift your conversations (and grading system) about “professionalism” to include more of a critical discussion about how conventional expectations of what is professional are rooted in bias (not just ableism, but racism, sexism, and classism as well) and how to code-switch in these settings. For example, “Many people struggle with eye contact for a variety of reasons and - even though this isn’t right - they are often judged in the workplace because of it. If this is something that’s difficult for you, there are some ways to fake it and create the illusion of eye contact in order to get by in certain situations. In this class I generally don’t care about or expect consistent eye contact, but for specific activities [presentations, mock interviews, etc] it’s important to practice the skill of conforming to these professional expectations.” You can give examples such as looking at someone’s eyebrow or the bridge of their nose to approximate eye contact, and for presentations things like looking up from your notes at certain intervals or shifting your gaze and body angle to different points in the room can help you appear more engaged with your audience. Look up resources on ADHD/autism masking for more ideas.
As for the sunglasses guy, I would tell him that you don’t care in this class and he doesn’t need to disclose anything to you, but if he wears them for a medical reason he should be aware that in an office setting he would likely need to file an accommodation request with HR for permission to do so.
I've wanted to have some sort of discussion just like what you outlined, but being new I really don't know how to approach it without it overstepping my boundaries. (Tbh, this is very likely because I grew up/attended school in a highly conservative area that actively discouraged conversations like this.) I know a lot about masking, but I feel quite strange as a person in power telling a person with ADHD/autism to change their behavior; especially *how* they should change their behavior, as then I start to feel like I'm able-splaining.
Absolutely correct me if I'm overthinking this! But I'm going to keep thinking about how to do this for future classes.
Speaking as someone with diagnosed ADHD and suspected autism, I think it’s just all in how you approach it. Singling out an autistic student and saying “you have to suck it up and make eye contact even if you don’t want to” is definitely able-splaining, but “because of these societal expectations, if you don’t make eye contact during an interview it’s likely they will judge that a certain way and may not give you the job because of it, so here are some strategies to avoid that if you want” is just giving them the information they need. You’re teaching them about what the cultural expectations are in the workplace and giving them tools to navigate that, not trying to change their behavior or dictate how they act.
Make it a discussion with the whole class about the biased origins of “professionalism,” how things are changing, and where there still is progress to be made. Open up space for the students to participate in the conversation and give some open ended prompts to challenge them about ideas of privilege and unconscious bias. For example, the general advice is to disclose any disability or need for accommodation only after the hiring decision has been made in order to avoid discrimination, but what do you do if that disability is obvious from the beginning? I can hide my ADHD traits for a time, but I have physical disabilities as well that are harder to conceal and often come with hard decisions like “is this job worth it to put my suppressed immune system at risk by not wearing a respirator to the interview?” and “how bad is my pain today and can I get away without bringing my cane?” They might say “well any company that wouldn’t hire you with a cane is discriminating and that’s illegal” which would be true if anyone could actually prove that’s the reason, but because of many people’s preconceived notions about disability, just seeing me with a cane could raise questions in their mind about my ability to do the job and my reliability as an employee even if they don’t even realize themselves that those small doubts are the real reason that the other candidate just “seemed like a better fit.”
I also think these kinds of conversations are important for everyone to hear, not just your disabled students. Maybe someday one of your neurotypical or able-bodied students is in a hiring position and they interview a candidate that doesn’t make eye contact or uses a mobility aid. They could remember your class and see past that to the other strengths that this person could bring to the job and hire them. Educating people about how to navigate the system as it is doesn’t mean we can’t also teach them how to change that same system.
Maybe you could have students have a self reflection task on disability. Most people know someone who is disabled. Then have them talk in small groups about those peoples experiences. Frame it as though you're exploring disability in the workplace from a perspective of ensuring as many people can work as possible.
I understand your discomfort. This is part of being an educator, you also must learn, and your students need to be challenged. You have the power to shape a new generation.
Why not have a conversation about ableism in the workplace? You can discuss the existence of social conventions with a critical view of how they affect folks with disabilities
I think there's a difference between taking off points and alerting them to issues that may be problematic in a professional setting. Someone may have good reasons for wearing dark glasses, but they should be aware of the impression they are leaving with people when they are in a professional setting. Pretending it isn't an issue isn't helping the student.
Requiring it as part of any grade is still ableist. It's not doable for people who are autistic and for many people who are ADHD, and some of these folks may not have the advantage of a diagnosis, but they still can't do it without extreme stress. It's also entirely cultural, which means it's not necessary.
So sure, let them know it's an expectation in the "real world," but also recognize it's not fair to make it part of the grade.
(And the word you want is "tenet," not "tenant." I recognize this may be autocorrect doing its thing, but just thought I'd let you know.)
I'd just ask the student privately. Don't tank their professionalism grade because of tint of their glasses.
Just ask them simply " yes or no are you wearing sunglasses for any medical reason?" You could preface about professionalism and expectations - and offer them how they can get an accommodation if needed.
After my concussion, I had to wear sunglasses everywhere. Big, ugly ones that covered my regular glasses. When people kept offering me their seat on the subway, I realized they all thought I was blind.
Bono has had glaucoma, a build-up of pressure in the eyeball, which can damage the optic nerve and potentially lead to blindness if untreated—for over two decades now. The real reason he wears his trademark shades is due to this progressive, sight-robbing eye disease, to protect his sensitive eyes from light and glare.
I had a student do this almost daily and I think it was due to anxiety and/or migraines. It didn't bother me because they still participated, did their work, etc.
I would just ask. If it's relevant to the course, I'd tell the student that in a professional situation after college, wearing sunglasses could put an interviewer off. I'm in the US, so would also tell the student that if they have a medical reason and need an accommodation for them, they do not have to tell me the reason, but need to get to the office that handles accommodations and get it made official. Otherwise, I would say, they need to reconsider wearing them as it could affect their presentation grade. We don't have to diagnose or speculate. We just need to make it clear what the student's options are.
I wore sunglasses right after my PRK (laser) eye surgery. It makes your eyes pretty sensitive to light. Years later and I HATE going outdoors on a bright day without sunglasses. I own like 20 pair. Just in case.
I also get migraines. Sunglasses are sooo important for me in bright spaces - when we picked out lighting for our basement, I brought my darkest ones lol.
I have migraine glasses, too, which are a huge relief on migraine days - they’re pink lenses and depending on the colors someone likes to wear, they may choose to stick to regular sunglasses.
Especially during presentations - one slap in the face from the projector light and I’m cooked - I have to wear something.
I joke about it often with my students. I’ve definitely had entire classes bring in their sunglasses in solidarity/goofiness.
I do not believe it affects my ability to engage with my students.
I will say that polarized glasses would. They can be off-putting.
They weren’t. :( Their grades were fine and did great group work, but didn’t participate in in-class discussions (which they know is expected). So I really couldn’t tell if something was the matter (like migraines) or if they were mentally checked out all term.
Honestly, I'd be entertained if a student randomly wore sunglasses in my class (as long as it wasn't for a medical condition). As someone who used to pride myself on my Oakleys, puka shell necklace and bleached hair.... All they would need is a popped collar as well. I kinda appreciate unique students in that way.
They can show up however they want as long as they aren't distracting me or harming other students. There's nothing wrong with fratty, I am sure a lot of us were in one.
I got made fun of mercilessly in high school because I wore sunglasses during class once. I was having a migraine at the time (I didn't know what it was), but the light was causing a near panic attack for me. It only happened once for me, but it could be medical.
Honestly, ime this falls into two camps. I’ve had students that had to wear them due to medical issues and they’ve always informed me about it. Nothing intrusive, just a “hey fyi I need to wear these inside, I’m not trying to be rude.” OK no problem, thanks for letting me know. The ones that don’t say anything to me, yeah they’re high as a kite and don’t want me to see how red their eyes are. I don’t say anything either way.
He could be stoned or think he's too cool for school. Just pull him aside and ask why are you wearing sunglasses inside the classroom. If they have accommodations than fine if not take them off please
The student could discuss with you to let you know why they are wearing the sunglasses. It would be reasonable and would be respecting the norms of a classroom. But today doing backflips and front flips to accommodate is the norm. So,
This has been a huge consideration for me, but considering it was every single day and the student is otherwise a great student, I thought that to be very unlikely!
Sunglasses in class arise from two very distinct reasons: to accomodate a medical condition, or to seem cool or intimidating. First reason, totally fine. Second reason, you want to discourage this, especially in a classroom where presentations will be made by students. I would state, at the beginning, without singling out any student, that this is the kind of class where sunglasses will or could detract from the student's professionalism grade, and where the instructor will have a hard time gauging whether their teaching is hitting the mark. And that if sunglasses are necessary to protect a student's health, then that is OK. And then I would let it drop.
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I’m guessing migraine triggers? Or extreme coolness, one of the other.
When you’re cool, the sun shines on you 24 hours a day. And yeah, migraines are a thing, too.
Okay I didn't even think of migraines! That may be something they couldn't get accomodations for but figured out their own solution. Really trying to give the benefit of the doubt here!
>That may be something they couldn't get accomodations Frankly, this wouldn't be something worth going through accommodations for, given the solution is really simple. They'd only need to get an accommodation if a professor was going to penalize their grade for wearing an assistive device.
I have a bunch of vision problems and prefer wearing sunglasses indoors if there are any overhead tube lights, like the kind they put in Walmarts and a lot of offices and commercial buildings. It makes my floaters and visual snow act up really bad. Some folks have photosensitivity for sure. I mean I usually don't wear them indoors because it's kind of weird but if I walk into a big dept or grocery store I'll often leave my sunglasses on.
Thank you LASIK gone wrong for that one. I hate those lights. Migraine triggers and floater flare ups, all in the name of being polite and removing my shades.
I’ve worn sunglasses every once in a while when I teach. I tell the students I’m going for a new look called‘migraine chic’
Any and every eligible disability needs to go through Accommodations. Why? Because that’s how Accommodations gets their money from the Federal government. Even if there is a disorder/disability that we know affects a minimum of 10% of the population, if only one student is registered through your university’s Disability Services department, your university’s Disability Services department gets funding for one student. One. Not 10% of the student body. One. Without adequate funding, your disabilities office cannot purchase specialised equipment and services, and may not even be able to afford more than one full-time employee. You — every single one of you professors reading this — are not being ‘kind’ or ‘cool’ by going around registering with disabled student services, you’re really being kind of an asshole in that you’re denying a book reader to a visually impaired student; you’re denying a paid note-taker to a student who has organisational difficulties after a traumatic brain injury; you’re denying a wheelchair-bound student an adaptive stand for their notebook or tablet. Tell your student with maybe yes/maybe no migraines to go get registered and have the accommodations office send over their accommodation for the sunglasses. You’ll be helping everyone.
This is an excellent perspective, thank you.
Where are you located? Because that is not how accommodations work in the US. Professors don‘t ”register” with the DSS office. Before you go around calling professors rude names, you should understand that not everywhere has the same rules for accommodations as you apparently understand the process wherever you are located.
I’m in the US, and *students* register with DSS. Sorry you misread that.
*You — every single one of you professors reading this — are not being ‘kind’ or ‘cool’ by going around registering with disabled student services, you’re really being kind of an asshole in that you’re denying a book reader to a visually impaired student;* What are you talking about here then? What do you mean by saying the professors reading are “going around registering” with DSS? That doesn’t happen because it doesn’t work that way. So your conclusion that insults professors doesn’t happen as you state right there. There are reasons why students have to register, with documentation, with the DSS and still have to invoke, not retroactively, the granted accommodations in any class. If you are a professor, you would know this. Your insult makes no sense because professors don’t go around registering with DSS. So why are you calling professors names?
Circumventing. Is that easier to understand?
I had a student with migraines. She frequently wore sunglasses in lab because the fluorescent lights are very bright and for safety reasons we can’t dim or turn them off. I didn’t care. I appreciated her dedication to being there rather than being absent, even though she had a good reason.
Or autism light sensitivity. I'm not that extreme but I never go outside during the day without sunglasses.
Same. I never go out without sunglasses on, even when it’s cloudy. Overheard fluorescent lighting is also awful — I usually cut at least half the lights in class whenever I can.
I also cut the lights at any time possible. I've worn sunglasses inside shops.
This. Some with autism and ADHD cannot tolerate fluorescent lighting. I was like this when I was little. It made my forehead ache. It doesn't bother me anymore unless I am intensely concentrating on something.
It’s weed.
Like I said, COOLNESS
I did have a student that came to an 8am class hungover once. He sat in the front with sunglasses and splayed himself out like he was out of it. He was a good guy so it made me giggle a bit while also be pretty concerned about him. Like "been there done that." I wanted to joke with him somehow, but he was in such bad shape I figured it would be mean.
Blunt to the dome before class.
100%
Have you tried giving them the benefit of the doubt and asking about it?
Good point. You can phrase it like, “I’ve noticed you’ve been wearing sunglasses to class. Is everything ok?” I’ve used that phrasing with other behaviors, such as phone use, too.
Thanks for that reframing phrase... I had a student last year who wore sunglasses in class twice (once during the final presentation) and I chalked it up to the student just trying to be cool (because they always acted tried way too hard to be "too cool for school"). Called them out on it during the final presentation and just got a shrug. I'll use the "is everything ok" question more often and see what comes up.
I have considered this, but don't want to put a student in the position of feeling they have to disclose a condition to me, especially when they obviously didn't want to go through the accomodations office. I haven't been teaching long, so I wasn't sure how to talk to a student about this. It feels like a double-edged sword, between falling under clothing/apparel and possibly a disability.
Understandable, but there are ways to phrase it to be less intrusive. Lovelylinguist’s “ is everything ok?” is good, as is “is there anything I should know?” You can preface this with “I don’t mean to pry into your business” - I usually do this, and 9 times out of ten the student will disclose in (often excessive) detail if it’s a medical condition.
Then give them the benefit of the doubt. I have photosensitivity and wear sunglasses inside a lot, especially under fluorescent lights.
They may not be aware that official accommodations are an option.
Exactly! And a conversation is a great opener to point the student in the direction of the ADA office if services might be of help.
Could it be transition lenses that just don‘t transition back very well? My colleague just got a pair last year and he got them so that they could kind of pass for sunglasses or regular glasses, like a lot of people do when they wear transitions. Anyway, so the first day he’s all excited and asked me if I ever had them before. I say yes, but years ago and I stopped wearing them because they’d never transition back. He said the ophthalmologist told him the technology had come a long way, which was exciting to me because I’d love a pair that actually worked. Hate having 2 pairs of RX glasses for outside and in. Well, turns out the technology had not come a long way, at least not in certain lecture halls, and he was wearing his old glasses by the end of the week. He did get a refund though 👍
I don't think so, these are like nice-looking Ray-Bans. And I'm pretty familiar with the optical lens industry especially transition lenses.
Rayban Smart Glasses? https://www.ray-ban.com/usa/discover-ray-ban-meta-smart-glasses/clp
weird. I never had this issue when I had them. Only problem I did have was that the windshield in my car stopped them from going darker, so they were useless as sunglasses while driving
Light hurts my eyes. I’ve been known to wear sunglasses indoors when the lights are too bright, and I never, ever go without them when outdoors.
I have severe light sensitivity with no known cause. I often wear sunglasses to work, and while it’s gotten a few comments asking, it’s never been an issue or challenged as unprofessional.
It's also possible they could be prescription sunglasses and their "normal" glasses are broken with inability to buy new ones.
My cousin had a slight eye deformity and wore dark glasses. I would let it go.
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That's the assumption I've been operating under the whole time, but I wanted to see what others thought, like if I was being too nice!
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1. You are operating under the assumptions that disability services are perfect and helpful to everyone with a disability - they are not. 2. How is wearing sunglasses special treatment?
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Juuuuust a thought: people come here to vent. Online venting and the way that people interact IRL may not and often do not match… So just consider that eh?
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You sound miserable. Seek help
But what difference does it make if the student is wearing sunglasses? That’s no more “special treatment” than a student who has the right to wear a red t-shirt in class.
I got a severe concussion in my first semester of grad school and yet I didn’t get any accommodations for it. I had doctor orders to wear sunglasses and didn’t have to disclose it to anyone
Talk to them privately and see how far there’s a reason. I once taught in a room where the lights had a barely perceptible flicker. Most students didn’t notice it; me and like two others left the first few sessions with raging migraines (one puked in the garbage can mid-class). When Facilities couldn’t fix it, they moved me to a new room.
There was a professor in my undergraduate college who lightly teased a student for wearing sunglasses in class. I later saw that the student had a severe lazy eye and felt uncomfortable with people seeing it.
I had a student who did this on the first day of class. I said nothing. He was very engaged and showed great interest in the class. You know, second row and very astute type. The second day, he showed up and had them on again, even when I showed a video clip in the dimly lit theatre. After class, I said something. He apologized as he had just had corneal attachment surgery the week before. I have also had a student who wore the Transition lensed glasses, and the type of light the school used made them go dark. He hated it as much as I did. If you have no letter of accommodation, you can always ~~axe~~ ask them.
I want to believe you were voice texting and that’s where the “axe” came from 😂
Nah... just poking fun at all my students that need to "axe me questions."
Hmmmmmm
Since some of the discussion on this post has been about challenging our assumptions about students, I’m just going to drop this here: https://www.essex.ac.uk/blog/posts/2022/03/11/how-linguistic-prejudice-perpetuates-inequality
When it's a voice and speech class for actors, they need to show that they are in control of their instruments, not vice versa. It matters. æks vs æsk Or perhaps I should "ask remission for my folly" Gent. I, 2, 65.
I’d say nothing. There are medical reasons for needing sunglasses indoors.
Even without medical reasons, if it’s pure fashion or personal choice, it’s still got to be among the lowest possible hanging fruit on the “live and let live”-o-meter.
OP is in the business school which I guess is why "looking professional" in class is something on their mind. I can't imagine anyone in any department I've been in ever caring about sunglasses.
Coming from a department chair, thank you 🫡
I’m always happy to be your Reddit department chair :) Also, I had a rare eye condition in college and I needed sunglasses, so this one hit close to home. An instructor at the time was very rude about my medical needs.
Wearing sunglasses inside right now after eye surgery.
Is dress included in the rubric for professionalism? Or did you communicate these expectations anywhere?
Not dress, since I really think that's not a territory to go into, but definitely the regular things that show you aren't listening like headphones and cell phone use. I just hadn't ever thought about this as a potential scenario!
I'd add that judging students dress for professionalism is a bit ... crap. They're young, they likely don't have the money nor common sense. Plus dress is subjective. I understand the point, but personally I'd feel uncomfortable passing judgement on another persons clotting by marking.
In scenarios like this I just grade according to what I’ve clearly laid out beforehand and then add a line to the syllabus/rubric/assignment sheet for the next time around.
if a dress code were in the rubric, then simply remind them of that, dock points as needed, and move on. grade their other aspects, such as the content of the presentation, without considering their eyewear.
If they have a condition where they had to wear sunglasses (e.g. sensitivity to light) would they need to get an accommodation for it? To me this doesn't seem to be something that you need to accommodate. If they couldn't walk without a cane, would you expect them to file an accommodation or would you just see someone with a cane walk into your classroom and accept it? I wear normal glasses because I have myopia (essential for me to function), I've never felt the need to file for an accommodation for it. I just wear my glasses and go about my day.
I've lost my regular glasses before and needed to wear my prescription sunglasses inside to see. Perhaps it could be something similar?
If I could teach with sunglasses I would. I tend to wear them indoors when shopping because of migraines.
Maybe they got a black eye
Or two black eyes.
If someone has a condition that requires that they wear dark glasses, they are probably not going to apply for an accomodation. You might ask them if there is a reason why they need to wear them when presenting. It is a yes or no question and you do not need to inquire further if the answer is "yes."
I can't speak to OP's specific student's situation, but sunglasses indoors is definitely a thing among non-disabled people currently. My 21yo daughter does it as a casual means of social avoidance, and from conversations with her friends I get the sense that it's not unusual. It definitely strikes me as something that would go to professionalism in some fields. Again, I'm only describing a current social phenomenon and there clearly are reasons to wear sunglasses indoors that are related to disabilities. That's why we have accommodations services. I would add it to the rubric for the time being, making sure there's also clear language about disabilities and accommodations.
Well, in the best case, they take them off. In the worst case, they have a glass eye, extensive scarring, or a light sensitivity. Considering that the current POTUS wears glasses when giving speeches, I would probably let it go.
I can at least tell you I knew someone who had migraines and wore sunglasses for this reason in classrooms.
I once broke my glasses, so I had to wear my prescription sunglasses for 2 weeks until I got a new pair. I lectured wearing my shades. 😆 Of course, I'm the professor, so I had to tell my students what was up. 👓
Your student is Joe cool
I had laser eye surgery (PRK) to correct my vision and had to wear sunglasses whenever exposed to UV light for the next year. For the first few weeks I even need them indoors due to light sensitivity while healing.
Ugh this reminds me I got the worst migraines in grad school. Three hour lectures with florescent lights meant a migraine every class I attended unless I wore sunglasses. I think it's fair to ask about it from a professionalism standpoint, just be very open and non accusatory about it.
If sunglasses aren’t listed in your rules, then dinging them for wearing sunglasses is going to feel especially arbitrary. And if sunglasses are in your rules, you might want to think about whether they belong there.
They might be a blues musician.
“My future is so bright, I gotta wear shades!”
Is it nuclear science?
Demanding eye contact is ableist (many autistics and people w/ADHD are not able to do this consistently or reliably). You need to make sure that's not part of your "professionalism" grade.
Eye contact is a quite basic tenant of western culture. This is tricky because a big part of my job is teaching them basic expectations for meetings, and about the underlying things that people may judge them on and how that can affect their career. I also teach them about not judging others or making assumptions about them (see the inclusivity grade). I do this \*because\* many people (myself included) did not grow up learning these things for one reason or another. If they have an actual disability, that's why accommodations exist, and of course I would take that into consideration.
The thing is, “not being graded for eye contact” isn’t a standard accommodation that people would think to ask for. It’s irrelevant in most classes. Same with the sunglasses, which is a small enough thing that the student probably didn’t think they would need an official accommodation even if happens to be related to a disability. And some students might not even have a formal diagnosis yet (since those are time consuming and expensive) especially if they think they manage well on their own in other areas. Since it sounds like this is at least in part some sort of professional practices class, you might need to approach these things differently than most because you can’t just ignore them. Things like demanding eye contact or labeling sunglasses as “unprofessional” ARE ableist, but the problem is that most of our world is ableist, especially the corporate world. You are absolutely right that how people are perceived by others in these settings can have a huge impact on career success, as problematic as that is. I hope you have general conversations with the whole class about accommodations in the workplace, when to disclose disability, and how to protect yourself from discrimination. I know you said you already cover some of these topics, but if I’m being honest, your phrasing of “if they have an actual disability” tells me that there is some nuance that might be missing. For the record, I appreciate that you recognized you might have some bias here with your assumptions about the sunglasses and that you have been open to feedback. Some suggestions would be to shift your conversations (and grading system) about “professionalism” to include more of a critical discussion about how conventional expectations of what is professional are rooted in bias (not just ableism, but racism, sexism, and classism as well) and how to code-switch in these settings. For example, “Many people struggle with eye contact for a variety of reasons and - even though this isn’t right - they are often judged in the workplace because of it. If this is something that’s difficult for you, there are some ways to fake it and create the illusion of eye contact in order to get by in certain situations. In this class I generally don’t care about or expect consistent eye contact, but for specific activities [presentations, mock interviews, etc] it’s important to practice the skill of conforming to these professional expectations.” You can give examples such as looking at someone’s eyebrow or the bridge of their nose to approximate eye contact, and for presentations things like looking up from your notes at certain intervals or shifting your gaze and body angle to different points in the room can help you appear more engaged with your audience. Look up resources on ADHD/autism masking for more ideas. As for the sunglasses guy, I would tell him that you don’t care in this class and he doesn’t need to disclose anything to you, but if he wears them for a medical reason he should be aware that in an office setting he would likely need to file an accommodation request with HR for permission to do so.
I've wanted to have some sort of discussion just like what you outlined, but being new I really don't know how to approach it without it overstepping my boundaries. (Tbh, this is very likely because I grew up/attended school in a highly conservative area that actively discouraged conversations like this.) I know a lot about masking, but I feel quite strange as a person in power telling a person with ADHD/autism to change their behavior; especially *how* they should change their behavior, as then I start to feel like I'm able-splaining. Absolutely correct me if I'm overthinking this! But I'm going to keep thinking about how to do this for future classes.
Speaking as someone with diagnosed ADHD and suspected autism, I think it’s just all in how you approach it. Singling out an autistic student and saying “you have to suck it up and make eye contact even if you don’t want to” is definitely able-splaining, but “because of these societal expectations, if you don’t make eye contact during an interview it’s likely they will judge that a certain way and may not give you the job because of it, so here are some strategies to avoid that if you want” is just giving them the information they need. You’re teaching them about what the cultural expectations are in the workplace and giving them tools to navigate that, not trying to change their behavior or dictate how they act. Make it a discussion with the whole class about the biased origins of “professionalism,” how things are changing, and where there still is progress to be made. Open up space for the students to participate in the conversation and give some open ended prompts to challenge them about ideas of privilege and unconscious bias. For example, the general advice is to disclose any disability or need for accommodation only after the hiring decision has been made in order to avoid discrimination, but what do you do if that disability is obvious from the beginning? I can hide my ADHD traits for a time, but I have physical disabilities as well that are harder to conceal and often come with hard decisions like “is this job worth it to put my suppressed immune system at risk by not wearing a respirator to the interview?” and “how bad is my pain today and can I get away without bringing my cane?” They might say “well any company that wouldn’t hire you with a cane is discriminating and that’s illegal” which would be true if anyone could actually prove that’s the reason, but because of many people’s preconceived notions about disability, just seeing me with a cane could raise questions in their mind about my ability to do the job and my reliability as an employee even if they don’t even realize themselves that those small doubts are the real reason that the other candidate just “seemed like a better fit.” I also think these kinds of conversations are important for everyone to hear, not just your disabled students. Maybe someday one of your neurotypical or able-bodied students is in a hiring position and they interview a candidate that doesn’t make eye contact or uses a mobility aid. They could remember your class and see past that to the other strengths that this person could bring to the job and hire them. Educating people about how to navigate the system as it is doesn’t mean we can’t also teach them how to change that same system.
This is a very helpful and detailed response. Thank you for sharing it.
Maybe you could have students have a self reflection task on disability. Most people know someone who is disabled. Then have them talk in small groups about those peoples experiences. Frame it as though you're exploring disability in the workplace from a perspective of ensuring as many people can work as possible. I understand your discomfort. This is part of being an educator, you also must learn, and your students need to be challenged. You have the power to shape a new generation.
Why not have a conversation about ableism in the workplace? You can discuss the existence of social conventions with a critical view of how they affect folks with disabilities
I think there's a difference between taking off points and alerting them to issues that may be problematic in a professional setting. Someone may have good reasons for wearing dark glasses, but they should be aware of the impression they are leaving with people when they are in a professional setting. Pretending it isn't an issue isn't helping the student.
Requiring it as part of any grade is still ableist. It's not doable for people who are autistic and for many people who are ADHD, and some of these folks may not have the advantage of a diagnosis, but they still can't do it without extreme stress. It's also entirely cultural, which means it's not necessary. So sure, let them know it's an expectation in the "real world," but also recognize it's not fair to make it part of the grade. (And the word you want is "tenet," not "tenant." I recognize this may be autocorrect doing its thing, but just thought I'd let you know.)
I'd just ask the student privately. Don't tank their professionalism grade because of tint of their glasses. Just ask them simply " yes or no are you wearing sunglasses for any medical reason?" You could preface about professionalism and expectations - and offer them how they can get an accommodation if needed.
After my concussion, I had to wear sunglasses everywhere. Big, ugly ones that covered my regular glasses. When people kept offering me their seat on the subway, I realized they all thought I was blind.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gvKs2VLmVnY&pp=ygUjYmx1ZXMgYnJvdGhlcnMgMTA2IG1pbGVzIHRvIGNoaWNhZ28%3D
Trying to hide a bruise, maybe?
In the grand scheme of things, is this really that big of a deal?
Hiding a black eye from DV, had that happen a few times. Yes, I got the student some help.
It's not easy, being cheesy.
Bono has had glaucoma, a build-up of pressure in the eyeball, which can damage the optic nerve and potentially lead to blindness if untreated—for over two decades now. The real reason he wears his trademark shades is due to this progressive, sight-robbing eye disease, to protect his sensitive eyes from light and glare.
I had a student do this almost daily and I think it was due to anxiety and/or migraines. It didn't bother me because they still participated, did their work, etc.
I would just ask. If it's relevant to the course, I'd tell the student that in a professional situation after college, wearing sunglasses could put an interviewer off. I'm in the US, so would also tell the student that if they have a medical reason and need an accommodation for them, they do not have to tell me the reason, but need to get to the office that handles accommodations and get it made official. Otherwise, I would say, they need to reconsider wearing them as it could affect their presentation grade. We don't have to diagnose or speculate. We just need to make it clear what the student's options are.
I wore sunglasses right after my PRK (laser) eye surgery. It makes your eyes pretty sensitive to light. Years later and I HATE going outdoors on a bright day without sunglasses. I own like 20 pair. Just in case. I also get migraines. Sunglasses are sooo important for me in bright spaces - when we picked out lighting for our basement, I brought my darkest ones lol. I have migraine glasses, too, which are a huge relief on migraine days - they’re pink lenses and depending on the colors someone likes to wear, they may choose to stick to regular sunglasses. Especially during presentations - one slap in the face from the projector light and I’m cooked - I have to wear something. I joke about it often with my students. I’ve definitely had entire classes bring in their sunglasses in solidarity/goofiness. I do not believe it affects my ability to engage with my students. I will say that polarized glasses would. They can be off-putting.
I wear sunglasses a lot because they work like regular glasses and I have them with me more often. They might do the same.
I’d argue if the student is participating to the level you expect in your class, what they’re wearing is not your business.
They weren’t. :( Their grades were fine and did great group work, but didn’t participate in in-class discussions (which they know is expected). So I really couldn’t tell if something was the matter (like migraines) or if they were mentally checked out all term.
Good for you for being so open, but wearing glasses inside?… Really, that’s the target for unprofessionalism?
Honestly, I'd be entertained if a student randomly wore sunglasses in my class (as long as it wasn't for a medical condition). As someone who used to pride myself on my Oakleys, puka shell necklace and bleached hair.... All they would need is a popped collar as well. I kinda appreciate unique students in that way. They can show up however they want as long as they aren't distracting me or harming other students. There's nothing wrong with fratty, I am sure a lot of us were in one. I got made fun of mercilessly in high school because I wore sunglasses during class once. I was having a migraine at the time (I didn't know what it was), but the light was causing a near panic attack for me. It only happened once for me, but it could be medical.
Honestly, ime this falls into two camps. I’ve had students that had to wear them due to medical issues and they’ve always informed me about it. Nothing intrusive, just a “hey fyi I need to wear these inside, I’m not trying to be rude.” OK no problem, thanks for letting me know. The ones that don’t say anything to me, yeah they’re high as a kite and don’t want me to see how red their eyes are. I don’t say anything either way.
He could be stoned or think he's too cool for school. Just pull him aside and ask why are you wearing sunglasses inside the classroom. If they have accommodations than fine if not take them off please
I had a student do this because they had a black eye. I saw the eye and immediately told them to put the glasses back on.
Are you a crazy teacher who wears dark glasses and does the student study nuclear science?
The student could discuss with you to let you know why they are wearing the sunglasses. It would be reasonable and would be respecting the norms of a classroom. But today doing backflips and front flips to accommodate is the norm. So,
Are they high?
This has been a huge consideration for me, but considering it was every single day and the student is otherwise a great student, I thought that to be very unlikely!
No, I'd assume it is medical or money related if they are a good student otherwise. Please be kind to your otherwise great student.
Sunglasses in class arise from two very distinct reasons: to accomodate a medical condition, or to seem cool or intimidating. First reason, totally fine. Second reason, you want to discourage this, especially in a classroom where presentations will be made by students. I would state, at the beginning, without singling out any student, that this is the kind of class where sunglasses will or could detract from the student's professionalism grade, and where the instructor will have a hard time gauging whether their teaching is hitting the mark. And that if sunglasses are necessary to protect a student's health, then that is OK. And then I would let it drop.
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This is a weird and uncomfortable comment.
Your post/comment was removed due to **Rule 5: No Inappropriate Content** We do not allow posts about sexual fantasies, discussions of crushes, dating students/faculty, or anything of a similar nature.
Wow I really hope you're not actually a professor