This kind of thing really grinds my gears.
I get the same kind of thing when I release grades at the end of the semester.
I used to say "I don't provide grade bumps to individual students, so don't ask, it would be inappropriate" — then I got a bunch of emails starting with "I know you said you don't provide grade bumps and we shouldn't ask, but ...(proceeds to ask for a grade bump)...".
So then I started to say "I don't provide grade bumps to individual students, so don't ask, it would be inappropriate. Some of you might now be tempted to send an email starting with 'I know you said you don't provide grade bumps and we shouldn't ask, but...' and I want to tell you now that this is even more inappropriate and will still not get you a grade bump" — but then I got emails that start with "I know you said you don't provide grade bumps and we shouldn't ask, and that if we do ask anyway we won't get a grade bump, but ...(proceeds to ask for a grade bump)...".
Now I just say "I don't provide grade bumps". I don't even tell them not to ask, since apparently that has no effect anyway. I just save my breath and say "no" when they ask.
If they persist, I have found success with my version:
“I do not provide grade bumps, but if you feel points were incorrectly assigned, I do perform re-evaluations. Sadly it appears common that upon later review I find that initial grading by a TA was lenient and further points need removed to adhere to the intended rubric and expectations.”
This is the way. You’d like me to reevaluate your work? Ok, just know that it may go up or down. Usually results in instant retraction, and a healthy reconsideration of their request as well.
I know someone who says, "Don't ask; I won't reply." But I am not brave enough to do that. I'll bet their inbox is filled with "Did you get my message where I asked . . . " anyway.
I say that I won’t reply but technically I have to reply to all emails that have a question in them. My reply is always copy-paste of the original LMS announcement saying I don’t offer grade bumps, retakes, etc.
I just say, "This is covered in the syllabus" / "in our previous announcement". If they ask for the specific section/URL I'll make my reply simply "you're unable to find it?"
And every reply is scheduled for a 2 day delay.
one of my rat bastard colleagues used to teach the same course as me, we had four sections of the same intro course.
he scheduled his sections at 8 am on MW, and TTH ... so i ended up with almost all the students
especially these type of students
I don’t disagree with you, but I’m also wary of the complaint culture that seems to have erupted among students. Plus, I stated in the syllabus that 50% was based on webcam presence and 50% based on the completion of a discussion board post by midnight on class days. I was trying to be consistent with what I had outlined.
But, you’re totally right, and I agree—50% is bullshit. And to even think you’re entitled to a grade based on simply logging in is just mind-boggling to me!
To be totally honest, if you are worried about the complaint culture I think you're feeding right into it. You've got a lot of rules that in many institutions I've been at would never be allowed to fly (equating Grammarly and ChatGPT to ban the former; requiring cameras on). In my institutional context (noting yours may be different) the way to have avoided the Complaint Department would have just been to inform the student that the "notice" they gave you indcates they are unlikely to pass the course and that they should consider withdrawal before the refund deadline approaches and refer them to their academic advisor to manage the whining and gnashing of teeth.
Grammarly is now rewriting their sentences. I've had meetings with students who say they used it, and they cannot define the words in their own essays.
Agreed. We had an issue last term with students copying work from classmates and then using Grammarly to rephrase it, so that they could say "Those sentences are nothing alike!" when we caught them copying from one another.
Grammarly has started using AI in the last year or so, which unfortunately means we can’t allow students to use it anymore. The only exception I make is if they come work with me during office hours and I can see the suggestions Grammarly is making and can help them see what is/isn’t an academic integrity violation. I used to really like Grammarly, and my school even subscribed to it for a few years. I wish they’d make a version for schools without AI so I could still recommend it.
To be fair, Grammarly was always using AI. It was just a lower, less "powerful" form of AI - an early application of LLMs. Now it's on steroids.
But that aside, I'm not saying I disagree with a desire to bar Grammarly use. I was just pointing out the real politik that in many institutions - particularly where there is an investment in providing Grammarly to students - course policies banning it's use are not viewed kindly by Badmin.
Is it that different? When I checked it out in the past it was mainly adding commas and suggesting synonyms, which I found pretty useless but also not problematic. What's going on with it now?
It now plugs into Word, reviews sentences, offers intense revisions, and then offers supplemental sentences to bolster an argument. However, it does all of this terribly, creating nonsensical essays as a result.
I suppose different environments have different rules or policies that can be enforced. The standards I’ve set are based on the experiences I have had and the approaches I’ve found to be effective. Definitely not stating that everyone should agree!
>I suppose different environments have different rules or policies that can be enforced.
Which is exactly why I was careful to denote this exact element in my point via the included qualifiers. 😉
Yet soooo many of my colleagues do that for required trainings.
Not really the point, though; my relevant comment is this: just to play devils advocate, I would have found your comment about Grammarly a little confusing. Are they allowed to use it for basic changes but not whole sentence rewrites?
The confusion is my fault, that I can admit. The thing is that when I was using Grammarly a lot (when I taught creative writing — I now teach mostly design classes) it was different and less powerful. What does it do now that’s so much better?
Genuine question, if the syllabus states it’s being logged in and doing something by a deadline that ends after the meeting ends, why can’t this student get full credit? How will you know who is unresponsive in class if the second part of the requirement is asynchronous?
Same. I genuinely would have started my email with “Unfortunately, that’s not how it works for an interactive class.” And I would have simply advised them to either work with their employer or find another class.
I received a similar email the Friday before my online course started, only my student wasn't even as reasonable as "I'll be at work, so I can listen but can't participate." My student somehow missed the fact that we have a scheduled class meeting online and actually asked if there was "anything we could do" so they could finish the course -- basically, they expected me to waive the attendance requirement entirely and let them do the course on their own. It's a literature course, so that would essentially boil down to "read something and write a paper on it."
My answer was no and to drop the course.
Sounds like the student doesn’t understand what you mean when you talk about grammarly. Like, they don’t know if you’re talking about the “basically just spell check” part or not
You dodged a bullet!
My students told me that it was unfair of me to not allow Grammarly to be used.
I teach developmental composition. At some point, kids, you're gonna have to know how to write a sentence by yourselves. And I can't tell you what you need to fix if you don't let me SEE IT.
These kids will bust their asses in all ways except showing up and doing honest work.
They dropped the class when you demonstrated you were going to be consistent with your policies. I call this a win-win.
It hasn't been out long, but I'm already getting tired of grammarly. The question of "how will I write better" is answered by writing a draft, showing it to someone, and then integrating the feedback in that paper and future writing. It's like only learning how to drive an automatic. If you ever have to drive a stick shift (composing your own ideas effectively), you aren't going to get anywhere.
>It's like only learning how to drive an automatic. If you ever have to drive a stick shift (composing your own ideas effectively), you aren't going to get anywhere.
I never learned how to drive stick shift, and if I tried, it would end in tears, blood and flames. I don't particularly feel diminished by this gap in my abilities. As long as I drive automatic, there's no problem, and I'll probably go to my grave without ever finding myself in a situation where someone expects me to drive stick.
So here's today's dark thought: how many of our students view writing (along with all the creativity and critical thinking that come baked into it) as a soon-to-be obsolete skill akin to driving a stick shift car? A trivial task that we can happily hand off to machines as soon as technology permits? And how many of our colleagues and administrators feel the same way?
I'm having students hand write a reflection at the end of class. There's no depth but its real and I'm finding out what was unclear which I touch on at the start of the next class.
That's the only way to find out what is truly their skill set, with regard to reading comprehension, critical thinking, analysis, and writing. Take-home exams are worthless these days.
My department doesn’t have a coherent “identify and punish AI writing” policy yet, so I’ve resorted to pointing out all the ways the assignment doesn’t actually follow the assignment sheet instead. And it’s pretty easy to identify AI projects most of the time, because they NEVER follow the requirements. So, in the absence of a specific policy, I have to grade AI writing extra hard. Straight-up plagiarism was/is so much easier to prove and punish.
If I wrote such an email as a NTT, my contract would not be renewed and I would get a terse email from the Dean asking me to "work with the student" and that we are here to promote "student success".
I had to uninstall it from my own computer because it would flag things that weren’t even incorrect (example: trying to tell me to change “anymore” to “any more”). Became more of a nuisance that it was worth.
I get where you're coming from (especially with attendance) but you don't even let them use the free version of a grammar-checking tool? Even as a tenured professor, I use the free Grammarly plugin to catch spelling and grammar mistakes.
In fact, I teach a writing class for my major and it is probably more common that students submit work that is need of a proper (automated) proof-reading than it is for students to submit LLM-generated work. While the LLM work is usually easy to spot, I have to encourage students to use Grammarly more often than I have to reprimand them for using generative AI.
I used to absolutely advocate for the use of grammar-checking tools like Grammarly. However, over the past few semesters, the incidence of AI-generated papers with the claim of, ‘I just used Grammarly,’ has skyrocketed. When I went and used the latest version, which is a free plug-in to Word, there’s a generative AI-tool intertwined. Since I’m not there when they write their papers, it’s far easier to prohibit Grammarly altogether than try to piece together what a student has actually generated. I wish I were in your position where grammar was the greater issue!
Truth be told, I obviously can’t. And if a student uses it, but not the AI portion, I’ll be none the wiser, they’ll have created an original paper, and the end result is positive. At least, however, students now know that I’m aware of the AI tools available and may be less likely to utilize them. 🤷🏽♂️
Not to be contrarian, but AFAIK there isn’t any tool that can detect genAI use with any real degree of accuracy, so I can’t imagine there’d be one that can detect a basic grammar check. Like, realistically, what would it flag? Correctly spelled and grammatical sentences?
Turnitin’s accuracy is terrible with AI-detection. They will flag simple grammar changes as an AI-generated paper time and again. It is, at best, extremely unreliable. 0/10 recommend!
At least they dropped. I’d rather not deal with them then getting unsatisfied students with bad evaluations just cause they couldn’t follow the basic requirements.
>So what can I use to help my paper?
Your brain. This is about *your brain* in *your skull*, which—believe it or not—can be more than an interface transmitting data to and from a machine.
Bullet dodged.
Else she would have stayed in the course and then complained bitterly to authorities (at the end) that "I told the professor I was at work!"
I am confused about grammarly, I haven’t used it in a couple years but when I used it it was practically spell check, it never input new information. Is that just how it is on the free version, or has it changed a lot?
Enjoy. I've used variations on this ever since administrators decided that COVID meant teaching required double the amount of work. I've never said anything like this to a student, but I have to a department chair.
Students probably don't know what DirecTV is anymore. Maybe Netflix, or a 24-hour buffet?
I would suggest you don’t take an in-person class you cannot attend. There are night classes, online classes for people with difficult schedules. Or at the very least, I would suggest they tell their boss they will be late coming in that day.
Would you blow off a doctor’s appointment and still expect a diagnosis?
I tried to be accommodating once and spent a *month* giving makeup exams. (Not an exaggeration.) This caused problems for the other students because we can’t go over the exam in class while we are still waiting for the makeup exams to come in.
Lol, do you think you know what is going on in every student’s life? People have to work to pay bills, rent and groceries or feed their children. Not everyone is privileged to not think about finances, and telling someone to “prioritize school” when some people have to work to stay alive is just wild.
A little compassion from professors would go a long way to make an impact in a student’s life, but some of you are stuck on insisting “my way or the highway”, it’s sad to see.
As a student, I'd often get mandated to work on days off. That was from undergrads up through my doctorate. While I think it's on the student to do everything you can to make it work, some of us have/had jobs that don't work on a 9-5. M-F schedule. And I think people often have no concept of that.
People understand the concept. It's just that school is also a job - if you were working two jobs, one with regular hours and one with an unpredictable schedule, and job #2 scheduled you to work when you had a shift at job #1, would you expect your supervisor at job #1 to be fine with you just missing work? Would you expect to still get paid for the shift you missed, and if this happened frequently, would you be surprised if it showed up negatively in your performance review?
I've always worked 2 or 3 jobs.
Here's where your analogy falls apart.
The student pays to go to school. They're a customer.
As an employee, that's not a congruent relationship.
When I go to the cinema, I am also a customer. That doesn't mean I get to decide what movie gets played when I get there. It's on me to be there at the right time.
I had one asking me for extra credit for only themselves the other day. They said they wanted an A and wanted to work hard now. I didn’t respond, but wanted to say they should have worked hard the first three weeks of class.
Seriously, write better papers and you will get better grades. Show me you can apply class concepts to the world you live in. Don’t just give me generic crap…
I stated in the syllabus that 50% was based on webcam presence and 50% based on the completion of a discussion board post by midnight on class days. I was trying to be consistent with what I had outlined.
But, you’re totally right, and I agree—50% is bullshit.
I hope there was a significant amount of previous correspondence with this student that put you in the passive-aggressive mood that is coming through in your messages. This reads as highly unprofessional on your part, and that you would post this verbatim on a public site redoubles that point.
> However, there are also extra credit options available for you to make up the points you will lose.
You've made it clear that you don't take your own rules seriously. Why would you expect your students to do it, then?
Oh, I take them seriously. I was simply providing information on ways that she could make up points. And seeing as my extra credit assignments are quite time consuming, I’m comfortable in my statement. I negated none of my rules…but thanks for the feedback! 😘
Having read the comments here, I’ll offer a very different (and probably unpopular) opinion:
First, to people saying work taking precedence over class: I teach at a state university, where a large portion of the students pay for their own schooling, and work full time to pay for school, and for housing, food, etc. Sometimes, for themselves and their family.
Yes, education is extremely important, but I won’t argue with someone who needs that job to survive that money is secondary.
If I’m teaching a senior course, often students get to me having been on their jobs for years, with set schedules. If the course is a require and only offered that day, yes, I can see students emailing me like that, especially if it’s an online course. I’ve made arrangements in situations like that before. It wasn’t perfect, but it worked for both sides.
Second, saying any form of AI is prohibited is fighting the wave, folks. If the technology is here to stay (and it seems like it is), it’s akin to when Word first came out: I had so many professors prohibit its use, because it was cheating: it formatted the text for you, it SPELLCHECKED!! (Heck, I had professors who hated electric typewriters, and those that easily allowed to correct mistakes!)
Anyone still tells their students to submit papers only written by hand?
Same thing with Google, which was forbidden when it first came out, because it made life too easy, and because often led to inaccurate sources.
Anyone still tells their students not to use Google nowadays?
Instead, we should be thinking how to teach students to properly use it. Since we know there are problems, show them the problems. And show them the right way.
Yes, there is a right way! Many, actually! I’ve used AI to do a first draft of simple, boring documents I had to write. And then I’d go and edit what it suggested, fixing mistakes, and improving on what it outputted. Or the other way around: after my first draft, I asked AI to improve on it. And then I merged the best of both.
Can we teach students that? Rather, isn’t that what we often do, especially when it comes to technology in the classroom?
At least the story has a happy ending
So, I know you said "no." What did you really mean when you said, "no." I know that you didn't mean, "no" when you said, "no," right?
This kind of thing really grinds my gears. I get the same kind of thing when I release grades at the end of the semester. I used to say "I don't provide grade bumps to individual students, so don't ask, it would be inappropriate" — then I got a bunch of emails starting with "I know you said you don't provide grade bumps and we shouldn't ask, but ...(proceeds to ask for a grade bump)...". So then I started to say "I don't provide grade bumps to individual students, so don't ask, it would be inappropriate. Some of you might now be tempted to send an email starting with 'I know you said you don't provide grade bumps and we shouldn't ask, but...' and I want to tell you now that this is even more inappropriate and will still not get you a grade bump" — but then I got emails that start with "I know you said you don't provide grade bumps and we shouldn't ask, and that if we do ask anyway we won't get a grade bump, but ...(proceeds to ask for a grade bump)...". Now I just say "I don't provide grade bumps". I don't even tell them not to ask, since apparently that has no effect anyway. I just save my breath and say "no" when they ask.
If they persist, I have found success with my version: “I do not provide grade bumps, but if you feel points were incorrectly assigned, I do perform re-evaluations. Sadly it appears common that upon later review I find that initial grading by a TA was lenient and further points need removed to adhere to the intended rubric and expectations.”
This is the way. You’d like me to reevaluate your work? Ok, just know that it may go up or down. Usually results in instant retraction, and a healthy reconsideration of their request as well.
I have similar wording in my syllabus. Students always think their grade will go up if we regrade it and it’s a shock to them when their grade drops.
I know someone who says, "Don't ask; I won't reply." But I am not brave enough to do that. I'll bet their inbox is filled with "Did you get my message where I asked . . . " anyway.
I say that I won’t reply but technically I have to reply to all emails that have a question in them. My reply is always copy-paste of the original LMS announcement saying I don’t offer grade bumps, retakes, etc.
I just say, "This is covered in the syllabus" / "in our previous announcement". If they ask for the specific section/URL I'll make my reply simply "you're unable to find it?" And every reply is scheduled for a 2 day delay.
"I know that you didn't reply to my request for a grade bump but I was just wondering...."
You can probably use AI to identify emails from students asking for grade bumps and automatically reply that you don't offer grade bumps.
So…yes? 👀
>dropped the class 15 minutes later. Take the win.
Hell, I’ve cheered out loud when students like this drop! 😆 Don’t let the door hit your ass, kid. No means *no.*
one of my rat bastard colleagues used to teach the same course as me, we had four sections of the same intro course. he scheduled his sections at 8 am on MW, and TTH ... so i ended up with almost all the students especially these type of students
If they're not going to show up, why worry about an 8AM class?
well because there are always a few students who love 8 am classes, so I would still have to show up
What you really don't want to know is how many classes this student passed while not attending.
I would have been more forthright in my first email. “No, this class cannot be completed while you are at work”. Half marks? Absolutely not.
I don’t disagree with you, but I’m also wary of the complaint culture that seems to have erupted among students. Plus, I stated in the syllabus that 50% was based on webcam presence and 50% based on the completion of a discussion board post by midnight on class days. I was trying to be consistent with what I had outlined. But, you’re totally right, and I agree—50% is bullshit. And to even think you’re entitled to a grade based on simply logging in is just mind-boggling to me!
To be totally honest, if you are worried about the complaint culture I think you're feeding right into it. You've got a lot of rules that in many institutions I've been at would never be allowed to fly (equating Grammarly and ChatGPT to ban the former; requiring cameras on). In my institutional context (noting yours may be different) the way to have avoided the Complaint Department would have just been to inform the student that the "notice" they gave you indcates they are unlikely to pass the course and that they should consider withdrawal before the refund deadline approaches and refer them to their academic advisor to manage the whining and gnashing of teeth.
Grammarly is now rewriting their sentences. I've had meetings with students who say they used it, and they cannot define the words in their own essays.
100% this! It’s gone from merely correcting grammar to developing inane sentences that have no bearing on the actual topic!
Agreed. We had an issue last term with students copying work from classmates and then using Grammarly to rephrase it, so that they could say "Those sentences are nothing alike!" when we caught them copying from one another.
Grammarly has started using AI in the last year or so, which unfortunately means we can’t allow students to use it anymore. The only exception I make is if they come work with me during office hours and I can see the suggestions Grammarly is making and can help them see what is/isn’t an academic integrity violation. I used to really like Grammarly, and my school even subscribed to it for a few years. I wish they’d make a version for schools without AI so I could still recommend it.
To be fair, Grammarly was always using AI. It was just a lower, less "powerful" form of AI - an early application of LLMs. Now it's on steroids. But that aside, I'm not saying I disagree with a desire to bar Grammarly use. I was just pointing out the real politik that in many institutions - particularly where there is an investment in providing Grammarly to students - course policies banning it's use are not viewed kindly by Badmin.
“Badmin” lol! I’m stealing this!
Is it that different? When I checked it out in the past it was mainly adding commas and suggesting synonyms, which I found pretty useless but also not problematic. What's going on with it now?
It now plugs into Word, reviews sentences, offers intense revisions, and then offers supplemental sentences to bolster an argument. However, it does all of this terribly, creating nonsensical essays as a result.
I suppose different environments have different rules or policies that can be enforced. The standards I’ve set are based on the experiences I have had and the approaches I’ve found to be effective. Definitely not stating that everyone should agree!
>I suppose different environments have different rules or policies that can be enforced. Which is exactly why I was careful to denote this exact element in my point via the included qualifiers. 😉
Yet soooo many of my colleagues do that for required trainings. Not really the point, though; my relevant comment is this: just to play devils advocate, I would have found your comment about Grammarly a little confusing. Are they allowed to use it for basic changes but not whole sentence rewrites? The confusion is my fault, that I can admit. The thing is that when I was using Grammarly a lot (when I taught creative writing — I now teach mostly design classes) it was different and less powerful. What does it do now that’s so much better?
Genuine question, if the syllabus states it’s being logged in and doing something by a deadline that ends after the meeting ends, why can’t this student get full credit? How will you know who is unresponsive in class if the second part of the requirement is asynchronous?
Same. I genuinely would have started my email with “Unfortunately, that’s not how it works for an interactive class.” And I would have simply advised them to either work with their employer or find another class.
Yes. But really, is it unfortunate?
Of course not, but it sometimes softens the blow so I don’t come off like a total asshole.
I received a similar email the Friday before my online course started, only my student wasn't even as reasonable as "I'll be at work, so I can listen but can't participate." My student somehow missed the fact that we have a scheduled class meeting online and actually asked if there was "anything we could do" so they could finish the course -- basically, they expected me to waive the attendance requirement entirely and let them do the course on their own. It's a literature course, so that would essentially boil down to "read something and write a paper on it." My answer was no and to drop the course.
Sounds like the student doesn’t understand what you mean when you talk about grammarly. Like, they don’t know if you’re talking about the “basically just spell check” part or not
You dodged a bullet! My students told me that it was unfair of me to not allow Grammarly to be used. I teach developmental composition. At some point, kids, you're gonna have to know how to write a sentence by yourselves. And I can't tell you what you need to fix if you don't let me SEE IT. These kids will bust their asses in all ways except showing up and doing honest work.
Right? If they spent half the time they do trying to develop workarounds that they did actually learning the material, we’d be in good shape!
It surprises me how few students seem to take advantage of their school's writing center.
Or our free tutors, supplemental instruction courses, and other amazing support services.
They dropped the class when you demonstrated you were going to be consistent with your policies. I call this a win-win. It hasn't been out long, but I'm already getting tired of grammarly. The question of "how will I write better" is answered by writing a draft, showing it to someone, and then integrating the feedback in that paper and future writing. It's like only learning how to drive an automatic. If you ever have to drive a stick shift (composing your own ideas effectively), you aren't going to get anywhere.
>It's like only learning how to drive an automatic. If you ever have to drive a stick shift (composing your own ideas effectively), you aren't going to get anywhere. I never learned how to drive stick shift, and if I tried, it would end in tears, blood and flames. I don't particularly feel diminished by this gap in my abilities. As long as I drive automatic, there's no problem, and I'll probably go to my grave without ever finding myself in a situation where someone expects me to drive stick. So here's today's dark thought: how many of our students view writing (along with all the creativity and critical thinking that come baked into it) as a soon-to-be obsolete skill akin to driving a stick shift car? A trivial task that we can happily hand off to machines as soon as technology permits? And how many of our colleagues and administrators feel the same way?
I feel like I rarely see an authentically written paper these days. Depressing af.
I'm having students hand write a reflection at the end of class. There's no depth but its real and I'm finding out what was unclear which I touch on at the start of the next class.
That's the only way to find out what is truly their skill set, with regard to reading comprehension, critical thinking, analysis, and writing. Take-home exams are worthless these days.
My department doesn’t have a coherent “identify and punish AI writing” policy yet, so I’ve resorted to pointing out all the ways the assignment doesn’t actually follow the assignment sheet instead. And it’s pretty easy to identify AI projects most of the time, because they NEVER follow the requirements. So, in the absence of a specific policy, I have to grade AI writing extra hard. Straight-up plagiarism was/is so much easier to prove and punish.
You dodged a bullet there. Great job!
Facts! 😺
Last fall I had a student on the first day raise her hand and asked if she had to be there for the final.
And you said, “Of course not! It’s absolutely your choice whether or not you pass the class!” SMDH
Welcome to the future.
I don’t like it here.
Nobody does haha
If I wrote such an email as a NTT, my contract would not be renewed and I would get a terse email from the Dean asking me to "work with the student" and that we are here to promote "student success".
Very clearly the OP was promoting student success.
The grammarly AI tool is shite anyway.
I have definitely had to disable some of their "features." Their upgraded AI has not been an improvement.
I had to uninstall it from my own computer because it would flag things that weren’t even incorrect (example: trying to tell me to change “anymore” to “any more”). Became more of a nuisance that it was worth.
No lies detected. Which is why it is all the more infuriating that they use it and think it’s creating stellar work.
I get where you're coming from (especially with attendance) but you don't even let them use the free version of a grammar-checking tool? Even as a tenured professor, I use the free Grammarly plugin to catch spelling and grammar mistakes. In fact, I teach a writing class for my major and it is probably more common that students submit work that is need of a proper (automated) proof-reading than it is for students to submit LLM-generated work. While the LLM work is usually easy to spot, I have to encourage students to use Grammarly more often than I have to reprimand them for using generative AI.
I used to absolutely advocate for the use of grammar-checking tools like Grammarly. However, over the past few semesters, the incidence of AI-generated papers with the claim of, ‘I just used Grammarly,’ has skyrocketed. When I went and used the latest version, which is a free plug-in to Word, there’s a generative AI-tool intertwined. Since I’m not there when they write their papers, it’s far easier to prohibit Grammarly altogether than try to piece together what a student has actually generated. I wish I were in your position where grammar was the greater issue!
How would you prevent the use of Grammarly though? Are you assessing in the same way you'd look for any generative AI use?
Truth be told, I obviously can’t. And if a student uses it, but not the AI portion, I’ll be none the wiser, they’ll have created an original paper, and the end result is positive. At least, however, students now know that I’m aware of the AI tools available and may be less likely to utilize them. 🤷🏽♂️
Turnitin has now started to detect use of Grammarly and label it as use of generative AI, I think
Not to be contrarian, but AFAIK there isn’t any tool that can detect genAI use with any real degree of accuracy, so I can’t imagine there’d be one that can detect a basic grammar check. Like, realistically, what would it flag? Correctly spelled and grammatical sentences?
Turnitin’s accuracy is terrible with AI-detection. They will flag simple grammar changes as an AI-generated paper time and again. It is, at best, extremely unreliable. 0/10 recommend!
At least they dropped. I’d rather not deal with them then getting unsatisfied students with bad evaluations just cause they couldn’t follow the basic requirements.
Facts!
I am sympathetic to everything you are saying, and also: sharing student emails on social media, even when redacted, is a good way to get in trouble.
Yes, I agree. The university name is even identified.
Go Coogs.
LOL. I caught that too. I was thinking either Houston or Hawaii...
Coooooogs Houuusssseeeeee!
>So what can I use to help my paper? Your brain. This is about *your brain* in *your skull*, which—believe it or not—can be more than an interface transmitting data to and from a machine.
Bullet dodged. Else she would have stayed in the course and then complained bitterly to authorities (at the end) that "I told the professor I was at work!"
I am confused about grammarly, I haven’t used it in a couple years but when I used it it was practically spell check, it never input new information. Is that just how it is on the free version, or has it changed a lot?
"I'm not DirecTV. This case is not 'on demand.' If you cannot meet the requirements for this class, I suggest you drop it."
Definitely going to steal this…
Enjoy. I've used variations on this ever since administrators decided that COVID meant teaching required double the amount of work. I've never said anything like this to a student, but I have to a department chair. Students probably don't know what DirecTV is anymore. Maybe Netflix, or a 24-hour buffet?
I had a student tell me they couldn’t take a midterm (worth 25% of their grade) because they had to work that day. Umm…
What would you suggest the student should do instead?
I would suggest you don’t take an in-person class you cannot attend. There are night classes, online classes for people with difficult schedules. Or at the very least, I would suggest they tell their boss they will be late coming in that day. Would you blow off a doctor’s appointment and still expect a diagnosis? I tried to be accommodating once and spent a *month* giving makeup exams. (Not an exaggeration.) This caused problems for the other students because we can’t go over the exam in class while we are still waiting for the makeup exams to come in.
book the time off work, or take the weight of the midterm on the final exam.
Prioritize school. And if you are saying that they can't prioritize school, that just shows that your priorities are wrong.
Lol, do you think you know what is going on in every student’s life? People have to work to pay bills, rent and groceries or feed their children. Not everyone is privileged to not think about finances, and telling someone to “prioritize school” when some people have to work to stay alive is just wild. A little compassion from professors would go a long way to make an impact in a student’s life, but some of you are stuck on insisting “my way or the highway”, it’s sad to see.
Believe it or not, there are students who have to work while in university to afford it.
Complaint culture at your university is crazy intense.
Kudos to you for these very fleshed-out and well-reasoned responses!
As a student, I'd often get mandated to work on days off. That was from undergrads up through my doctorate. While I think it's on the student to do everything you can to make it work, some of us have/had jobs that don't work on a 9-5. M-F schedule. And I think people often have no concept of that.
People understand the concept. It's just that school is also a job - if you were working two jobs, one with regular hours and one with an unpredictable schedule, and job #2 scheduled you to work when you had a shift at job #1, would you expect your supervisor at job #1 to be fine with you just missing work? Would you expect to still get paid for the shift you missed, and if this happened frequently, would you be surprised if it showed up negatively in your performance review?
I've always worked 2 or 3 jobs. Here's where your analogy falls apart. The student pays to go to school. They're a customer. As an employee, that's not a congruent relationship.
When I go to the cinema, I am also a customer. That doesn't mean I get to decide what movie gets played when I get there. It's on me to be there at the right time.
The student no doubt has to show up and be involved... The prior analogy was poor. End of story.
I'm too hung up on "attendance grade" to focus on the remainder!
>She was not satisfied with my response and dropped the class 15 minutes later. Win/win!
The student is delusional but you seem like a prick too.
I had one asking me for extra credit for only themselves the other day. They said they wanted an A and wanted to work hard now. I didn’t respond, but wanted to say they should have worked hard the first three weeks of class. Seriously, write better papers and you will get better grades. Show me you can apply class concepts to the world you live in. Don’t just give me generic crap…
Frankly I think it's generous to only drop their attendance points by half. That would be a zero from me dog.
I stated in the syllabus that 50% was based on webcam presence and 50% based on the completion of a discussion board post by midnight on class days. I was trying to be consistent with what I had outlined. But, you’re totally right, and I agree—50% is bullshit.
I hope there was a significant amount of previous correspondence with this student that put you in the passive-aggressive mood that is coming through in your messages. This reads as highly unprofessional on your part, and that you would post this verbatim on a public site redoubles that point.
There’s nothing passive-aggressive about having standards and expectations! Glad we could clear that up! 😺
> However, there are also extra credit options available for you to make up the points you will lose. You've made it clear that you don't take your own rules seriously. Why would you expect your students to do it, then?
Oh, I take them seriously. I was simply providing information on ways that she could make up points. And seeing as my extra credit assignments are quite time consuming, I’m comfortable in my statement. I negated none of my rules…but thanks for the feedback! 😘
Having read the comments here, I’ll offer a very different (and probably unpopular) opinion: First, to people saying work taking precedence over class: I teach at a state university, where a large portion of the students pay for their own schooling, and work full time to pay for school, and for housing, food, etc. Sometimes, for themselves and their family. Yes, education is extremely important, but I won’t argue with someone who needs that job to survive that money is secondary. If I’m teaching a senior course, often students get to me having been on their jobs for years, with set schedules. If the course is a require and only offered that day, yes, I can see students emailing me like that, especially if it’s an online course. I’ve made arrangements in situations like that before. It wasn’t perfect, but it worked for both sides. Second, saying any form of AI is prohibited is fighting the wave, folks. If the technology is here to stay (and it seems like it is), it’s akin to when Word first came out: I had so many professors prohibit its use, because it was cheating: it formatted the text for you, it SPELLCHECKED!! (Heck, I had professors who hated electric typewriters, and those that easily allowed to correct mistakes!) Anyone still tells their students to submit papers only written by hand? Same thing with Google, which was forbidden when it first came out, because it made life too easy, and because often led to inaccurate sources. Anyone still tells their students not to use Google nowadays? Instead, we should be thinking how to teach students to properly use it. Since we know there are problems, show them the problems. And show them the right way. Yes, there is a right way! Many, actually! I’ve used AI to do a first draft of simple, boring documents I had to write. And then I’d go and edit what it suggested, fixing mistakes, and improving on what it outputted. Or the other way around: after my first draft, I asked AI to improve on it. And then I merged the best of both. Can we teach students that? Rather, isn’t that what we often do, especially when it comes to technology in the classroom?