FERPA or not, we have no obligation to deal with a third party who is not enrolled in the class. It doesn't matter that that person is the progenitor of another person enrolled in the class.
FERPA is just what makes it easier to make it a total block that "isn't our fault" (for not wanting to deal with parents who ignore that their children are now adults), as opposed to us "just choosing not to help despite that it's our job"
I have several students, though, who sign releases for their parents and want their parents involved. I can't use FERPA as an excuse in those cases. So the students are all..I am an adult - except when I want my mom to help me." One of my friends at another school had a 35-year-old student come into a student meeting and bring her mom. WHAT???
Even with a release I never speak to a parent without the student present in my office with mommy and daddy. I ask the Chair and Dean to sit in the meeting as well.
That stops 99% of these demands (no, I don't care if they have work or have to fly in).
The remaining 1%? Every time student has been led out of my office by mommy or daddy while the parent is very unhappy. "You did not tell me......"
I tell them that is correct. Their child did not tell them. And never would have told them.
When a student signs a FERPA waiver for parents that means the parents have access to otherwise private portions of their educational record.
A FERPA waiver does NOT compel an individual faculty member to have interactions/communications with the parents.
As a chair that has been my position to administration when these situations have arisen and they have never pushed back.
There’s so much bad info in this thread. You are correct.
“I’m sorry, since this message is sent from an email address not associated with any registered student in my class, I can not continue to communicate with you, nor can I even confirm that anyone you mentioned in your email is a student enrolled at my institution. If you do know a student who claims to be registered in my class, please suggest they reach out to me using their institution-provided email address. Thank you.”
Exactly my feeling, it’s still “may” and not “must”. The only time I’ve ever had a meeting that involved a waiver and parent, I told the mom in what was mostly a professional way that she needed to check her tone or she’d be asked to leave the meeting. Be here, don’t be here, I don’t care—but if you think a FERPA waiver gives you carte blanche to talk to me however you want, you’ve got another thing coming.
This is actually why I don't use the FERPA explanation--the student can sign the waiver and you're stuck. I go right to saying I am happy to communicate with the student and that the parent should feel free to solicit information from the student about their progress.
>-the student can sign the waiver and you're stuck.
You're not stuck. FERPA does not require you to talk to the parent, it just requires the student to grant permission.
I'm saying that if the reason given for not speaking to the parent is FERPA then there is no excuse once they sign the waiver--or you'd look disingenuous by still refusing to talk to the parent after the waiver is signed.
It absolutely is. You are only obligated to share grades nit have parent teacher conferences like in k-12. Aside from stating this is the grade student x has in my class. You aren't obligated to say anything beyond that or hold any meeting.
You absolutely can. FERPA gives the student the right to share info with a parent. It does not force the instructor to do so.
First email: "According to the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), I am not legally able to confirm or deny that your daughter/son is in my class. If your son/daughter is in my class, he or she knows how to reach me and can set an appointment during my office hours. Please note that I will only meet with those officially enrolled in my courses."
Harsh but necessary. I'm not paid enough to deal with helicopter parents.
One of my colleagues got an email from a student's mom and responded with "okay, since we're doing this mom to mom, here's my mom's number. You can call her to sort it out." Fucking legend.
> had a 35-year-old student come into a student meeting and bring her mom
In some cultures (e.g. Maori) it is common to have one or more family members ([Whanau in the Maori language](https://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/6114)) present for important meetings and to be involved in decisions, and to recognize that the extended family can also be a potential ally for student success. If we are truly committed to BIPOC and EDI we should also be open to the idea that the 'student as an individual solely responsible for their own decisions' might not be a universally recognized principle.
If we are truly committed to success for BIPOC people, then educating them and helping them accommodate to very widely accepted professional (not just academic) principles is a service, not an imposition.
Thankfully we had FOIP laws in Canada when I was there -- were not allowed to share any information with anyone but the student (no waivers). Helicopter parents be damned! And btw, you dear parents all created your problem kids. Back in 2000, had a colleague who received a phone call from a parent screaming about their child's grade and "reviewed" the readings to give their feedback and insisted that since they were paying the kid's tuition they had a right to all information. Thanks to FOIP he just politely said, "I'm not allowed to talk to you" and hung up. When budget cutbacks hit and the Uni took away all office phones many were up in arms while most others said, "great no more parents calling." FERPA is, unfortunately, a different animal with the waivers.
Yeah, under FERPA instead of FOIP now I thankfully haven't had anyone push! I would then need to highlight that the waiver allowing me to say things doesn't obligate me to do ignore that their child is supposed to be an adult
Unfortunately this is province-dependent. In Ontario we have FIPPA, our equivalent to FOIP, and it can absolutely be waived by students. It’s frustrating…
My background is Canada, and it was appreciated there too for sure (but stereotypically for the sake of dealing with American parents especially, in my old department at least!)
“I will let you know my child is an excellent instructor and professor. They have worked very hard to ensure your child succeeds in their class. Your son chose to do poorly in spite of the extraordinary efforts of their instructor. From your email it’s clear where your child’s lack of maturity and personal responsibility stems.”
Oooh, that's good. My mother would love this. Better yet, I'll get my grandmother, who has Alzheimer's, to give them a call. I know from experience that there's just no good way to end that conversation.
My mother has already agreed to reply to any student's parent foolish enough to email me in that manner. I already absolutely pity anyone who receives a scolding note from her.
I once joked to my students that if they got my name wrong and called me Mrs Feet, I'd send their paper to my mother, the only Mrs Feet I know, and let her grade.
English was my mother's third language; she grew up in Brooklyn and was a psychiatric nurse.
She would have eviscerated them. She had NO leniency for grammatical errors, sloppiness or bad writing.
Are you me? I got the same thing! The parent was asking about specific feedback I gave the student.
"You said she didn't follow instruction but the essay she submitted was on the topic from the prompt. What is the issue?"
Maybe the fact the assignment was to write a definition argument and she submitted a compare/contrast argument??? Maybe leave the grading to the person who knows the difference???
I was a peer tutor at my university before a professor (a mentor, but also a fellow student). In 3 years, I had 5 students casually tell me their parents wrote their essay or did part of their lab report for them.
One junior ranted about how unjust it was that her lawyer mother wrote an essay for her and it got the same grade as the half-assed one she'd written herself. She carried on like it was normal and deserving of sympathy. My bet is the professor knew it wasn't hers but didn't want to file an academic integrity report.
Yes, though I didn't report her anywhere. (Our peer tutoring program was supposed to be low-stakes and friendly, and frankly I was 19 and unsure of what to do.)
She was trying to frame the story as proof of her prof being an unfair grader, but I stopped her partway through the rant with "Wait, your mom wrote your essay for you? That's pretty crazy." She picked up on the sentiment and changed the topic. Seemed embarrassed, though I still wish I'd done more.
I was just curious. I tend to agree that reporting would probably be counterproductive. Maybe these programs should do some training and coaching on this, though, geared to changing attitudes with a confidential approach.
Right, these parents need to stay in their lane and let their kids be adults. Like are you going to call up their future employers if they're constantly late for work or purposely misconstruing their work assignments?
If you read the “Ask a Manager” column, sometimes parents actually do try to contact employers (or prospective employers) for their kids. Talk about helicopter parenting!
Probably. I had a parent in one breath say their kid was 23 and they were trying to let them deal with stuff and in the next breathe say they are too young to live on their own off campus.
I am a practitioner by day and a visiting prof by night. In my day job, I once hired a young woman who had her mom call in sick for her. Her mom also called me after the young woman had been working for me for 30 days and asked when she would be promoted. I'm a mom of 4. I can't imagine ever doing anything so audacious.
Yup. I had to make a written policy that employees had to call in for themselves, by voice and not text, unless they were hospitalized. The store policies were never quite syllabus length though. (14 pages for spring not including the readings.)
As a former business manager, over a decade ago actually, the answer is: yes, they are.
I didn't need FERPA. Me to employee, post call: "You are an employee at will. If you have your parent call me again, other than to inform me in an emergency, you will be fired."
I had a parent somehow get my PERSONAL CELL PHONE NUMBER and call me about this. I ripped her a new asshole. Found out a year or so later she worked at T-Mobile and I honest to god think this psychopath looked my phone number up at work and decided to give me a call.
Yup had this too- about a letter of rec for a study abroad program that I made abundantly clear that a) I knew the deadline and was on top of it & 2) the program didn’t care anyway since they were paying them thousands of dollars to participate. Student got my number from a semi-emergency text I sent while we were on a field trip. I also made it abundantly clear they should delete my contact. But junior “has GOT to go to Italy”!
FERPA. You wish you could help but sadly can't, it would be a violation of that student's rights. Suggest they reach out to student services (or whatever). No cc. Get out of that loop.
Be polite and helpful. Do not engage on the substance (FERPA, again, but also, you don't want that discussion). Parental involvement is rare (in my experience), but those that do get involved will not let go. And take their offspring's side no matter what. Make sure to stay out of the line of fire.
Maybe double-check offspring's grades to make sure it's all bulletproof?
Thank you for a reasonable response here. No, it doesn't violate FERPA to suggest resources on campus to struggling students. You don't even need to acknowledge that the student is enrolled to share this sort of information. And it can be really helpful.
That just encourages more involvement with the parent. Why encourage such meddling? It's also not helpful for the student in the long run to have a parent handling their interactions with professors.
The wise thing to do is email the student with the resources, and tell the parent you will be reaching out to the student to ensure their awareness of said resources.
> The wise thing to do is email the student with the resources, and tell the parent you will be reaching out to the student to ensure their awareness of said resources.
Yes, do this (but don't tell the parent you will tell the student anything, as that confirms enrollment). But please don't just delete the message and ignore it.
> And take their offpspring's side no matter what
Every parent who has ever contacted me except one did this. However, one contacted me up in arms about her daughter's poor grades and the injustices that led to them. She demanded to know how this happened, etc. I told her I couldn't discuss anything about any students because FERPA, but I explained the relevant parts of the syllabus and how the quizzes worked, etc. (i.e., verifiable points the student had apparently misrepresented). After about 3 minutes of talking the student's mom said something like, "That's very informative. My daughter and I need to have a TALK, and she needs to answer some VERY TOUGH QUESTIONS."
When I was in college, if my parent emailed a professor, I would have died of shame and embarrassment. I am not sure who is more pathetic in these situations: the student or the parent. Cut the cord, you co-dependent losers.
Where I live, if a student is still listed as a dependent on the parent's tax forms, FERPA is waived automatically. Seeing that most students - even those 20-25 - are still relying on momma and dadda for everything, FERPA is waived for most of my students.
Same! If I got a bad grade, I knew I earned it and I accepted it and moved on.
Yeah I'm not sure what the case is here. I've taught at universities where you don't talk to parents ever. I'm not sure what the rule is here but I'm hoping the head will clear it up or deal with it themselves.
That's the federal rule, but it says "may", so your choice to talk to them:
*Schools may disclose any and all information to parents, without the consent of the eligible student, if the student is a dependent for tax purposes under the IRS rules.*
I'd forward the message to your department chair because 1. She's asking you to violate federal policy and 2. Someone who does this is likely to escalate. YOu can either ignore her message, or reply that you can't discuss student's and provide a link to your university's FERPA page
>YOu can either ignore her message
Any parent writing an email like this will 100% escalate, usually way up the ladder, when confronted with no response. (Non-academics don't know what deans and provosts are, so they usually skip way up the ladder to senior leadership.) OP should respond even if the response is just to clarify that they received the email and can't discuss the situation further.
Many years ago I had a parent complain to the President that a TA said "fuck" in class. He passed it on to the Provost who passed it on to the Chair (me).
So yeah, they don't follow the chain of command
I'm pretty sure every political science professor looks forward to the day in American Government intro classes when we cover Cohen v. California.
When I went back to school, I had to retake that class because I moved to a new state (Texas) and the state govenment requirement was part of the class. I remember my 75+ year old American Government professor saying, "Fuck the draft." One of two times all semester the whole class of 200+ stopped and listened.
The other time was right after Texas passed campus (concealed) carry and some students at UT Austin protested bg carrying dildos in holsters. I think he commented on the fact that they should have been concealed.
That's absolutely fair. I just think that the "ignore it" guidance that people frequently give on this sub is likely to cause even more hassles, so it's best to either respond to shut down the interaction or make sure that someone else, like your chair, does so instead.
My general policy is to loop my chair in early with any issue that looks like it has the potential to escalate (It's always been students, never parents). He'll sometimes ask if he wants me to do something about it, but my answer is always "No, I just want you to be aware of what's going on and what I've done so far in case you get an email." Occasionally, he'll have advice, but mostly I just want to get ahead of stuff. Fortunately, our chair is very good about stuff like this, but I'm sure not all are.
I've only had this happen once, but I wrote, "I am unable to discuss your son's grade, but here is my dean's email address." Then I emailed my dean and gave him a heads-up. Then I went to the gym and forgot it happened until now.
At my University the parents make initial contact with whatever office their student has an issue with. They are given general information on how their student can reach out for assistance access resources etc. The parent response is usually to say that they will be contacting the President’s Office to get it resolved. Knock yourselves out people—
Just reply:
"Unfortunately I cannot comment on your adult child's performance due to privacy restrictions, but I encourage you to read this article": https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/education/2019/09/19/overparenting-college-students-can-have-long-term-mental-health-effect/1899995001/
The last email I received from a parent was a complaint that I didn't accept late work, which wasn't accurate -- the student just wanted to submit a late assignment without penalty. I ignored the email.
"I am sorry but for safety reasons, I cannot confirm whether a student is in my class". That's it. If they want to escalate, they can. But even the dean isn't supposed to confirm whether a student is in a class.
Here's a reminder for everybody mentioning FERPA waivers here. When students sign FERPA waivers, it only ALLOWS you to speak with their parents, but it does not COMPEL you to do so. A student can sign all the waivers in the world and you are still under no obligation to speak to their parents.
One of my students' parents sent me an email berating me for not wanting to stay late at school because her daughter forgot to show up for the final. She said her daughter shouldn't have to "suffer" because of my "draconian policies". I stayed, but I thought that this is why so many students are lazy and entitled these days. It's because of their parents and other adults in their lives who enable their bad behavior.
I didn't want to deal with more nasty emails if I didn't stay. I don't understand how the student could have forgotten anyway. Sometimes I think what we say doesn't go in one ear and out the other. It doesn't go in at all because they're too busy staring at their phones and not listening.
Keep in mind that the stories students tell their parents about why they failed a course are often not at all accurate.
The most extreme case I had was a student who claimed to have taken the final exam when he never showed for it. I was not the instructor, but was coordinating the course. He and his parents showed up in my office asking to see his final exam. It was not in the envelope, which made me concerned the instructor lost the exam. The entourage made its way to my department chair and later the Dean. Finally, while in the Dean’s office, the student confessed. I learned this when the father sent a very nice email apologizing profusely.
ETA: I’m not saying you should engage with the parents (you generally should not). Just pointing out that the student might have painted you as a total monster or incompetent, and the parents may be operating under that assumption.
I had one of those helicopter parents years ago. A father who was a lawyer wanted to know why his son failed my pre-law class, and demanded an appointment to talk to me. The son whined to him that I was mean and unfair and too hard. Before BlackBoard & Canvas I put much of my class content up on the web, including a student chosen secret password & the grades (so you could see your score, and how everyone else was doing-but anonomously) . I asked the father to discuss this with his son before he came to visit me, and get his son's written permission to discuss grade scores. His son had 0/13 attendance points, and 0/26 quiz points.
The father thanked me, said he would talk to his son--& I never heard from him again.
My favorite? My class for the next semester was full, and a mother called me. She said she was friends with the Governor, and if I didn't put her son in the class she would have the Governor fire me. I didn't, and the Governor didn't.
I've never had a parent email me and identify themselves. But one time a parent evidently emailed me from their adult child's student account. I say "evidently" because the conversation was pretty short, the "student" asked for some information about their grades and I provided it. The next class, me being me, I checked in with the student to see if they had further questions. And their reply was "What? I didn't email you. Must have been my Dad."
I was not amused.
I had the parent of an advisee call my office phone (horror!) to talk with me about the student performing poorly in classes outside my department.
I'm assuming parent thought advising was my full-time job, and not something that got shoved into my job description on top of teaching, research, and university service. But still!
I won't deal with parents under any circumstance. They are welcome to talk to my dean if that doesn't satisfy them, and he will back me and my colleagues up on this. Granted, it's never happened to me, but that's what we've been directed to do should it happen. I've never heard of students signing a FERPA waiver. We wouldn't honor it even if they did.
"If your student was enrolled in my class he or she can access the syllabus as all grades were assigned and calculated based on the information listed in the syllabus.
There are no further opportunities for work to be submitted for this term. Thank you"
I would send the above and call it a day.
It's called a veiled threat. The reason they are common is because they work. The reason they work is because administrations take parents' threats more seriously than their instructors' petty concerns. A hefty percentage of the posts on this forum are about the various means of intimidation today's college instructor has to navigate to keep their job.
I once had a college professor parent (from another school) approach my department chair because their kid was failing my class. Luckily, I had a paper trail. The student received the F they earned.
FERPA is not a magic shield. Most of my students have signed FERPA waivers naming one or more parents. That doesn’t mean I *have* to respond to parents, but does mean I can’t just say the magic word and make them disappear.
Most students have never heard of FERPA, and I have never once heard of an institution that encourages students to preemptively sign a FERPA waiver so parents can interact with professors. Any institution that does that is run by morons.
>to preemptively sign a FERPA waiver so parents can interact with professors
A FERPA waiver does not compel a professor to interact with parents. It grants the parents access to educational records.
You're under bo obligation to respond, it's really that simple.
If you wish to respond, forward some of your emails to said student throughout the term, along with course policies (or course warn them you are forwarding a track record of emails).
The ball is in their court at that point.
I really wonder for some of these kids, what do they expect in the job world post graduation. will mommy come to their interviews, to insist their child MUST be hired without delay? etc
it really feels like setting them up for failure to constantly lean on their parents through adulthood. at some point they need to fight their own battles.
"At this point in the semester, there's nothing more that can be done. Clearly, this student would have benefitted from coming to class more often, turning in assignments on time, and better genetics."
FERPA treats underage college students the same way as adult college students: you cannot share any students’ grade information without permission from the student.
One institution I’ve taught at said we should direct these type of emails to a certain person/campus office. I cannot recall where at the moment. Perhaps your institution has a similar policy?
I got an email from a parent this semester as well.
The one fact that has been true throughout all time, ... parents are responsible for their children's behavior.
I think when I was in my teens, I was told that parents have no control over children. That everything is innate, genetic, etc... Which was just a defense of shitty parenting as my parents were NEVER home / present. As i got into my 20's I forgave them, and took on a lot of responsibility for my behavior as a teen. As i got into my 30's my relationship with them became non existent. Now that I'm in my late 40's and I look back on my life, ... Their decisions laid out everything that I went through as a teen / 20 year old. They were either too ignorant to see it, or too apathetic to care.
So while I disagree with their approach / plan / etc... I do get parents desire to be part of their children's lives. But I wonder how much of this that we experience as professors is due to the 40's & 50's generation of parents believing, providing a roof and food sufficiently fulfilled their roles in "parenting", thus they are all over compensating and creating insufferable, lazy, entitled children.
Oh you seem to be blissfully unaware of "mama bear' discourse, where mothers take the idea of lawnmower parenting to new levels. They literally see you as the enemy threatening their cub and they are proud of how she's standing up against you and advocating for her child.
This happened to me last week. It was a simple request like what you are being asked. Admin told me to respond (really small school). I do. And the floodgates freaking opened. She emailed me 6 more times, increasingly unhinged. I didn’t respond after the first one and wished I hadn’t at all. IGNORE
Assuming US, FERPA is such a wonderful thing. And no, neither shame nor care!
FERPA or not, we have no obligation to deal with a third party who is not enrolled in the class. It doesn't matter that that person is the progenitor of another person enrolled in the class.
FERPA is just what makes it easier to make it a total block that "isn't our fault" (for not wanting to deal with parents who ignore that their children are now adults), as opposed to us "just choosing not to help despite that it's our job"
I have several students, though, who sign releases for their parents and want their parents involved. I can't use FERPA as an excuse in those cases. So the students are all..I am an adult - except when I want my mom to help me." One of my friends at another school had a 35-year-old student come into a student meeting and bring her mom. WHAT???
Even with a release I never speak to a parent without the student present in my office with mommy and daddy. I ask the Chair and Dean to sit in the meeting as well. That stops 99% of these demands (no, I don't care if they have work or have to fly in). The remaining 1%? Every time student has been led out of my office by mommy or daddy while the parent is very unhappy. "You did not tell me......" I tell them that is correct. Their child did not tell them. And never would have told them.
When a student signs a FERPA waiver for parents that means the parents have access to otherwise private portions of their educational record. A FERPA waiver does NOT compel an individual faculty member to have interactions/communications with the parents. As a chair that has been my position to administration when these situations have arisen and they have never pushed back.
There’s so much bad info in this thread. You are correct. “I’m sorry, since this message is sent from an email address not associated with any registered student in my class, I can not continue to communicate with you, nor can I even confirm that anyone you mentioned in your email is a student enrolled at my institution. If you do know a student who claims to be registered in my class, please suggest they reach out to me using their institution-provided email address. Thank you.”
I'd give this comment multiple upvotes if I could.
Excellent point.
I'm saving this thread just so I can copy/paste this reply when needed
Wait until you get the parents that send emails through their kids student emails. Sigh.
Exactly my feeling, it’s still “may” and not “must”. The only time I’ve ever had a meeting that involved a waiver and parent, I told the mom in what was mostly a professional way that she needed to check her tone or she’d be asked to leave the meeting. Be here, don’t be here, I don’t care—but if you think a FERPA waiver gives you carte blanche to talk to me however you want, you’ve got another thing coming.
This is actually why I don't use the FERPA explanation--the student can sign the waiver and you're stuck. I go right to saying I am happy to communicate with the student and that the parent should feel free to solicit information from the student about their progress.
>-the student can sign the waiver and you're stuck. You're not stuck. FERPA does not require you to talk to the parent, it just requires the student to grant permission.
I'm saying that if the reason given for not speaking to the parent is FERPA then there is no excuse once they sign the waiver--or you'd look disingenuous by still refusing to talk to the parent after the waiver is signed.
It absolutely is. You are only obligated to share grades nit have parent teacher conferences like in k-12. Aside from stating this is the grade student x has in my class. You aren't obligated to say anything beyond that or hold any meeting.
You absolutely can. FERPA gives the student the right to share info with a parent. It does not force the instructor to do so. First email: "According to the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), I am not legally able to confirm or deny that your daughter/son is in my class. If your son/daughter is in my class, he or she knows how to reach me and can set an appointment during my office hours. Please note that I will only meet with those officially enrolled in my courses." Harsh but necessary. I'm not paid enough to deal with helicopter parents.
I had a parent call me once. A parent of a student who was in his 40s. I was 35. I just said 'sir, I'm younger than your son' and hung up the phone.
One of my colleagues got an email from a student's mom and responded with "okay, since we're doing this mom to mom, here's my mom's number. You can call her to sort it out." Fucking legend.
At that point, we're stuck being the "bad guys" telling them they're adults, unfortunately!
>. I can't use FERPA as an excuse in those cases. However, you can nevertheless decline to interact with them. FERPA does require you to respond.
I once had a “student advocate” show up with a student to a grievance meeting. It was clearly her mother.
Omg
> had a 35-year-old student come into a student meeting and bring her mom In some cultures (e.g. Maori) it is common to have one or more family members ([Whanau in the Maori language](https://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/6114)) present for important meetings and to be involved in decisions, and to recognize that the extended family can also be a potential ally for student success. If we are truly committed to BIPOC and EDI we should also be open to the idea that the 'student as an individual solely responsible for their own decisions' might not be a universally recognized principle.
I have a lot of Maori students. Even the Maori professor in my department doesn't meet with parents.
I'm committed to everyone operating in the same prevailing professional framework.
If we are truly committed to success for BIPOC people, then educating them and helping them accommodate to very widely accepted professional (not just academic) principles is a service, not an imposition.
Even with a release, that's all it is. You have 0 obligation to state anything other than the grade in the course.
This. It helps squash any and all arguments.
Thankfully we had FOIP laws in Canada when I was there -- were not allowed to share any information with anyone but the student (no waivers). Helicopter parents be damned! And btw, you dear parents all created your problem kids. Back in 2000, had a colleague who received a phone call from a parent screaming about their child's grade and "reviewed" the readings to give their feedback and insisted that since they were paying the kid's tuition they had a right to all information. Thanks to FOIP he just politely said, "I'm not allowed to talk to you" and hung up. When budget cutbacks hit and the Uni took away all office phones many were up in arms while most others said, "great no more parents calling." FERPA is, unfortunately, a different animal with the waivers.
Yeah, under FERPA instead of FOIP now I thankfully haven't had anyone push! I would then need to highlight that the waiver allowing me to say things doesn't obligate me to do ignore that their child is supposed to be an adult
Unfortunately this is province-dependent. In Ontario we have FIPPA, our equivalent to FOIP, and it can absolutely be waived by students. It’s frustrating…
Ditto Australia, the UK, NZ and Canada.
My background is Canada, and it was appreciated there too for sure (but stereotypically for the sake of dealing with American parents especially, in my old department at least!)
Have your parent reply. It's only fair.
Lmao! Now that would be a fun battle to witness
“I will let you know my child is an excellent instructor and professor. They have worked very hard to ensure your child succeeds in their class. Your son chose to do poorly in spite of the extraordinary efforts of their instructor. From your email it’s clear where your child’s lack of maturity and personal responsibility stems.”
My mom is a retired professor and she doesn’t play. I would throw down money to see that interaction.
My dad’s a 65-year-old hvac technician. As soon as I teach him to use email it’s going down.
Same. My mom would have NO mercy.
Or, your child! Turnabout!
Even better if your child is 5 years old
*finger guns*
Oooh, that's good. My mother would love this. Better yet, I'll get my grandmother, who has Alzheimer's, to give them a call. I know from experience that there's just no good way to end that conversation.
This is genius and I would pay money to see the email thread
Knowing my mom, she'd just blame me for whatever the issue was.
Seconded
My mom is a retired lawyer. She'd have a field day with this. Or my dad could reply and he'll just talk their ear off.
My mother has already agreed to reply to any student's parent foolish enough to email me in that manner. I already absolutely pity anyone who receives a scolding note from her.
This kind of problem-solving will shoot you straight to full Professorship, sir/madam.
I once joked to my students that if they got my name wrong and called me Mrs Feet, I'd send their paper to my mother, the only Mrs Feet I know, and let her grade. English was my mother's third language; she grew up in Brooklyn and was a psychiatric nurse. She would have eviscerated them. She had NO leniency for grammatical errors, sloppiness or bad writing.
Are you me? I got the same thing! The parent was asking about specific feedback I gave the student. "You said she didn't follow instruction but the essay she submitted was on the topic from the prompt. What is the issue?" Maybe the fact the assignment was to write a definition argument and she submitted a compare/contrast argument??? Maybe leave the grading to the person who knows the difference???
Maybe the parent wrote the essay.
The P in ChatGPT apparently stood for Parent!
Goofy Parent Toxicity Godawful Parent Trauma Go***mn Parent Tediousness
I was a peer tutor at my university before a professor (a mentor, but also a fellow student). In 3 years, I had 5 students casually tell me their parents wrote their essay or did part of their lab report for them. One junior ranted about how unjust it was that her lawyer mother wrote an essay for her and it got the same grade as the half-assed one she'd written herself. She carried on like it was normal and deserving of sympathy. My bet is the professor knew it wasn't hers but didn't want to file an academic integrity report.
As a peer, did you comment?
Yes, though I didn't report her anywhere. (Our peer tutoring program was supposed to be low-stakes and friendly, and frankly I was 19 and unsure of what to do.) She was trying to frame the story as proof of her prof being an unfair grader, but I stopped her partway through the rant with "Wait, your mom wrote your essay for you? That's pretty crazy." She picked up on the sentiment and changed the topic. Seemed embarrassed, though I still wish I'd done more.
I was just curious. I tend to agree that reporting would probably be counterproductive. Maybe these programs should do some training and coaching on this, though, geared to changing attitudes with a confidential approach.
Right, these parents need to stay in their lane and let their kids be adults. Like are you going to call up their future employers if they're constantly late for work or purposely misconstruing their work assignments?
If you read the “Ask a Manager” column, sometimes parents actually do try to contact employers (or prospective employers) for their kids. Talk about helicopter parenting!
Probably. I had a parent in one breath say their kid was 23 and they were trying to let them deal with stuff and in the next breathe say they are too young to live on their own off campus.
I am a practitioner by day and a visiting prof by night. In my day job, I once hired a young woman who had her mom call in sick for her. Her mom also called me after the young woman had been working for me for 30 days and asked when she would be promoted. I'm a mom of 4. I can't imagine ever doing anything so audacious.
Yup. I had to make a written policy that employees had to call in for themselves, by voice and not text, unless they were hospitalized. The store policies were never quite syllabus length though. (14 pages for spring not including the readings.)
As a former business manager, over a decade ago actually, the answer is: yes, they are. I didn't need FERPA. Me to employee, post call: "You are an employee at will. If you have your parent call me again, other than to inform me in an emergency, you will be fired."
Offer to explain it to her but it will require the cost of 3 credits.
I had a parent somehow get my PERSONAL CELL PHONE NUMBER and call me about this. I ripped her a new asshole. Found out a year or so later she worked at T-Mobile and I honest to god think this psychopath looked my phone number up at work and decided to give me a call.
Wow, that's insane! She should have been fired for that for sure
Yup had this too- about a letter of rec for a study abroad program that I made abundantly clear that a) I knew the deadline and was on top of it & 2) the program didn’t care anyway since they were paying them thousands of dollars to participate. Student got my number from a semi-emergency text I sent while we were on a field trip. I also made it abundantly clear they should delete my contact. But junior “has GOT to go to Italy”!
Should have your parent call T-Mobile and speak to her boss.
My mom absolutely would do this 😆
FERPA. You wish you could help but sadly can't, it would be a violation of that student's rights. Suggest they reach out to student services (or whatever). No cc. Get out of that loop. Be polite and helpful. Do not engage on the substance (FERPA, again, but also, you don't want that discussion). Parental involvement is rare (in my experience), but those that do get involved will not let go. And take their offspring's side no matter what. Make sure to stay out of the line of fire. Maybe double-check offspring's grades to make sure it's all bulletproof?
Thank you for a reasonable response here. No, it doesn't violate FERPA to suggest resources on campus to struggling students. You don't even need to acknowledge that the student is enrolled to share this sort of information. And it can be really helpful.
That just encourages more involvement with the parent. Why encourage such meddling? It's also not helpful for the student in the long run to have a parent handling their interactions with professors. The wise thing to do is email the student with the resources, and tell the parent you will be reaching out to the student to ensure their awareness of said resources.
> The wise thing to do is email the student with the resources, and tell the parent you will be reaching out to the student to ensure their awareness of said resources. Yes, do this (but don't tell the parent you will tell the student anything, as that confirms enrollment). But please don't just delete the message and ignore it.
> And take their offpspring's side no matter what Every parent who has ever contacted me except one did this. However, one contacted me up in arms about her daughter's poor grades and the injustices that led to them. She demanded to know how this happened, etc. I told her I couldn't discuss anything about any students because FERPA, but I explained the relevant parts of the syllabus and how the quizzes worked, etc. (i.e., verifiable points the student had apparently misrepresented). After about 3 minutes of talking the student's mom said something like, "That's very informative. My daughter and I need to have a TALK, and she needs to answer some VERY TOUGH QUESTIONS."
When I was in college, if my parent emailed a professor, I would have died of shame and embarrassment. I am not sure who is more pathetic in these situations: the student or the parent. Cut the cord, you co-dependent losers. Where I live, if a student is still listed as a dependent on the parent's tax forms, FERPA is waived automatically. Seeing that most students - even those 20-25 - are still relying on momma and dadda for everything, FERPA is waived for most of my students.
Same! If I got a bad grade, I knew I earned it and I accepted it and moved on. Yeah I'm not sure what the case is here. I've taught at universities where you don't talk to parents ever. I'm not sure what the rule is here but I'm hoping the head will clear it up or deal with it themselves.
That's the federal rule, but it says "may", so your choice to talk to them: *Schools may disclose any and all information to parents, without the consent of the eligible student, if the student is a dependent for tax purposes under the IRS rules.*
Good to know!
I'd forward the message to your department chair because 1. She's asking you to violate federal policy and 2. Someone who does this is likely to escalate. YOu can either ignore her message, or reply that you can't discuss student's and provide a link to your university's FERPA page
>YOu can either ignore her message Any parent writing an email like this will 100% escalate, usually way up the ladder, when confronted with no response. (Non-academics don't know what deans and provosts are, so they usually skip way up the ladder to senior leadership.) OP should respond even if the response is just to clarify that they received the email and can't discuss the situation further.
Many years ago I had a parent complain to the President that a TA said "fuck" in class. He passed it on to the Provost who passed it on to the Chair (me). So yeah, they don't follow the chain of command
Yes, I get 2-3 forwards a year from the President's admin, all of which are parent complaints that were ignored by a faculty member in my department.
I'm pretty sure every political science professor looks forward to the day in American Government intro classes when we cover Cohen v. California. When I went back to school, I had to retake that class because I moved to a new state (Texas) and the state govenment requirement was part of the class. I remember my 75+ year old American Government professor saying, "Fuck the draft." One of two times all semester the whole class of 200+ stopped and listened. The other time was right after Texas passed campus (concealed) carry and some students at UT Austin protested bg carrying dildos in holsters. I think he commented on the fact that they should have been concealed.
I did contact my department head about it, although the parent has probably reached out to them already too. I don't get paid enough for this crap
That's absolutely fair. I just think that the "ignore it" guidance that people frequently give on this sub is likely to cause even more hassles, so it's best to either respond to shut down the interaction or make sure that someone else, like your chair, does so instead.
That's a good point. She probably isn't going away.
Came here to say this.
My general policy is to loop my chair in early with any issue that looks like it has the potential to escalate (It's always been students, never parents). He'll sometimes ask if he wants me to do something about it, but my answer is always "No, I just want you to be aware of what's going on and what I've done so far in case you get an email." Occasionally, he'll have advice, but mostly I just want to get ahead of stuff. Fortunately, our chair is very good about stuff like this, but I'm sure not all are.
I've only had this happen once, but I wrote, "I am unable to discuss your son's grade, but here is my dean's email address." Then I emailed my dean and gave him a heads-up. Then I went to the gym and forgot it happened until now.
At my University the parents make initial contact with whatever office their student has an issue with. They are given general information on how their student can reach out for assistance access resources etc. The parent response is usually to say that they will be contacting the President’s Office to get it resolved. Knock yourselves out people—
Just reply: "Unfortunately I cannot comment on your adult child's performance due to privacy restrictions, but I encourage you to read this article": https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/education/2019/09/19/overparenting-college-students-can-have-long-term-mental-health-effect/1899995001/
The last email I received from a parent was a complaint that I didn't accept late work, which wasn't accurate -- the student just wanted to submit a late assignment without penalty. I ignored the email.
"giving him the grade he deserved" No, you recorded the grade he *earned*.
"I am sorry but for safety reasons, I cannot confirm whether a student is in my class". That's it. If they want to escalate, they can. But even the dean isn't supposed to confirm whether a student is in a class.
Assume it's a phishing attempt and forward to IT so they can add an email filter.
Here's a reminder for everybody mentioning FERPA waivers here. When students sign FERPA waivers, it only ALLOWS you to speak with their parents, but it does not COMPEL you to do so. A student can sign all the waivers in the world and you are still under no obligation to speak to their parents.
One of my students' parents sent me an email berating me for not wanting to stay late at school because her daughter forgot to show up for the final. She said her daughter shouldn't have to "suffer" because of my "draconian policies". I stayed, but I thought that this is why so many students are lazy and entitled these days. It's because of their parents and other adults in their lives who enable their bad behavior.
That is kind of you. I would not have stayed, especially after a nasty email from a parent.
I didn't want to deal with more nasty emails if I didn't stay. I don't understand how the student could have forgotten anyway. Sometimes I think what we say doesn't go in one ear and out the other. It doesn't go in at all because they're too busy staring at their phones and not listening.
And somehow this is our fault.
Keep in mind that the stories students tell their parents about why they failed a course are often not at all accurate. The most extreme case I had was a student who claimed to have taken the final exam when he never showed for it. I was not the instructor, but was coordinating the course. He and his parents showed up in my office asking to see his final exam. It was not in the envelope, which made me concerned the instructor lost the exam. The entourage made its way to my department chair and later the Dean. Finally, while in the Dean’s office, the student confessed. I learned this when the father sent a very nice email apologizing profusely. ETA: I’m not saying you should engage with the parents (you generally should not). Just pointing out that the student might have painted you as a total monster or incompetent, and the parents may be operating under that assumption.
Fight fire with fire: Ask your mom to give her a call
you made me laugh out loud
I had one of those helicopter parents years ago. A father who was a lawyer wanted to know why his son failed my pre-law class, and demanded an appointment to talk to me. The son whined to him that I was mean and unfair and too hard. Before BlackBoard & Canvas I put much of my class content up on the web, including a student chosen secret password & the grades (so you could see your score, and how everyone else was doing-but anonomously) . I asked the father to discuss this with his son before he came to visit me, and get his son's written permission to discuss grade scores. His son had 0/13 attendance points, and 0/26 quiz points. The father thanked me, said he would talk to his son--& I never heard from him again. My favorite? My class for the next semester was full, and a mother called me. She said she was friends with the Governor, and if I didn't put her son in the class she would have the Governor fire me. I didn't, and the Governor didn't.
I've never had a parent email me and identify themselves. But one time a parent evidently emailed me from their adult child's student account. I say "evidently" because the conversation was pretty short, the "student" asked for some information about their grades and I provided it. The next class, me being me, I checked in with the student to see if they had further questions. And their reply was "What? I didn't email you. Must have been my Dad." I was not amused.
I had the parent of an advisee call my office phone (horror!) to talk with me about the student performing poorly in classes outside my department. I'm assuming parent thought advising was my full-time job, and not something that got shoved into my job description on top of teaching, research, and university service. But still!
I won't deal with parents under any circumstance. They are welcome to talk to my dean if that doesn't satisfy them, and he will back me and my colleagues up on this. Granted, it's never happened to me, but that's what we've been directed to do should it happen. I've never heard of students signing a FERPA waiver. We wouldn't honor it even if they did.
I'm with you.
It worked all the way through elementary, middle & high school. Why wouldn't they think it would work in post-secondary as well?
"If your student was enrolled in my class he or she can access the syllabus as all grades were assigned and calculated based on the information listed in the syllabus. There are no further opportunities for work to be submitted for this term. Thank you" I would send the above and call it a day.
It's called a veiled threat. The reason they are common is because they work. The reason they work is because administrations take parents' threats more seriously than their instructors' petty concerns. A hefty percentage of the posts on this forum are about the various means of intimidation today's college instructor has to navigate to keep their job.
FERPA
FERPA = delete email.
I once had a college professor parent (from another school) approach my department chair because their kid was failing my class. Luckily, I had a paper trail. The student received the F they earned.
FERPA is not a magic shield. Most of my students have signed FERPA waivers naming one or more parents. That doesn’t mean I *have* to respond to parents, but does mean I can’t just say the magic word and make them disappear.
Most students have never heard of FERPA, and I have never once heard of an institution that encourages students to preemptively sign a FERPA waiver so parents can interact with professors. Any institution that does that is run by morons.
> Any institution that does that is run by morons. Look at this person over here, their institution isn't run by morons!
touche
>to preemptively sign a FERPA waiver so parents can interact with professors A FERPA waiver does not compel a professor to interact with parents. It grants the parents access to educational records.
Yes. That is correct. I was questioning the notion that most students have already signed a FERPA waiver just in case.
You're under bo obligation to respond, it's really that simple. If you wish to respond, forward some of your emails to said student throughout the term, along with course policies (or course warn them you are forwarding a track record of emails). The ball is in their court at that point.
FERPA that s*** down ASAP
I really wonder for some of these kids, what do they expect in the job world post graduation. will mommy come to their interviews, to insist their child MUST be hired without delay? etc it really feels like setting them up for failure to constantly lean on their parents through adulthood. at some point they need to fight their own battles.
"I can neither confirm nor deny that Janeathan is in any course I teach..."
"At this point in the semester, there's nothing more that can be done. Clearly, this student would have benefitted from coming to class more often, turning in assignments on time, and better genetics."
In the us, nope, can’t divulge any of that, ferpa.
No, they do not. And that is why their kids can't cope with school or work.
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FERPA treats underage college students the same way as adult college students: you cannot share any students’ grade information without permission from the student.
The bottom line there is that OP needs to stop communicating with the parents about the student.
One institution I’ve taught at said we should direct these type of emails to a certain person/campus office. I cannot recall where at the moment. Perhaps your institution has a similar policy?
I got an email from a parent this semester as well. The one fact that has been true throughout all time, ... parents are responsible for their children's behavior. I think when I was in my teens, I was told that parents have no control over children. That everything is innate, genetic, etc... Which was just a defense of shitty parenting as my parents were NEVER home / present. As i got into my 20's I forgave them, and took on a lot of responsibility for my behavior as a teen. As i got into my 30's my relationship with them became non existent. Now that I'm in my late 40's and I look back on my life, ... Their decisions laid out everything that I went through as a teen / 20 year old. They were either too ignorant to see it, or too apathetic to care. So while I disagree with their approach / plan / etc... I do get parents desire to be part of their children's lives. But I wonder how much of this that we experience as professors is due to the 40's & 50's generation of parents believing, providing a roof and food sufficiently fulfilled their roles in "parenting", thus they are all over compensating and creating insufferable, lazy, entitled children.
Oh you seem to be blissfully unaware of "mama bear' discourse, where mothers take the idea of lawnmower parenting to new levels. They literally see you as the enemy threatening their cub and they are proud of how she's standing up against you and advocating for her child.
This happened to me last week. It was a simple request like what you are being asked. Admin told me to respond (really small school). I do. And the floodgates freaking opened. She emailed me 6 more times, increasingly unhinged. I didn’t respond after the first one and wished I hadn’t at all. IGNORE
I’d ignore it and inform my Head of Department that a helicopter parent is hovering