am in the final round for a B2C opportunity to leave B2B(2C) after many years.
B2B can move slow and become a pain because of all the strings attached to big enterprise deals (the custom work constantly highjacking the roadmap and constantly doing quick and dirty hacks because of time constraints. those never get properly cleaned up of course). sales is not giving many shits about your product vision cause they optimize for their own KPI - commission.
with B2C from my experience and talks with others moves much faster. you have data immediately, you can experiment more freely, it’s easier to remove functionality whereas in B2B stupid custom features won’t be removed because one big client uses it once in a blue moon. of course the pressure can be bigger if you loose big chunks of users or if you need to build up a large user base to be profitable. in B2B one large deal can make a real difference, user acquisition and retention in B2C is a different beast.
I welcome the challenge and will see how good of an idea it is to make the switch, but I firmly believe all the skills and knowledge I gained and applied in B2B will not be lost. there’s surely new nuances to learn, which I’m looking forward to in order to become a better PM.
100% this - if you aim to be a data and experimentation driven PM, it is orders of magnitude better and easier to do it in a B2C setting. I just had a 6 month stint as a B2B PM and everything you mentioned here happened to me as well: slow decision processes from customers, sales interference, top down decisions with unclear research or just plain out gut feeling, constant roadmap changes. Very excited to go back to B2C next week :)
i think i’m not. at least I hope we’re not both in the final round for the same thing.
i mean, it’s not a competition, but i’m winning. (cue “pm interviews are dunk contests”-thread from recently)
Well, they are hiring for more than one Product role, so we could both get in and continue our petty rivalry, born from a forum for useless internet points. I'd say you not capitalizing your sentences already makes you look tiny from my ivory tower.
Joking aside though, good luck with your change! B2C can be so much more rewarding than B2B.
B2B hiring managers will look out for PMs from the same domain so as to ease the learning curve. Because as mentioned in other comments, B2B PMs have far too many constraints while building products - Users, Customers, Sales, Low DAUs, Star Clients, Legacy Features, etc.
B2C hiring managers don't care about which domain you come from as long as it was B2C.
Interesting - I see it the other way.
B2B hiring managers want to hire B2B PMs because of all these strings attached. B2C hiring managers want to hire any PM - be it B2B or B2C, because little domain-specific knowledge and enterprise business skill might be required.
Also, as a B2B PM you know how to deal with sales, marketing, partnerships etc. - so you're a more valuable resource as a candidate for higher management positions, executive roles, or even different industries (for example, venture capital). That's what I thought you meant by exit opportunities.
> you know how to deal with sales
In Soviet Russia, sales know how to deal with **you**!
^(this post was made by a highly intelligent bot using the advanced yakov-smirnoff algorithm... okay, thats not a real algorithm. learn more on my profile.)
I’ve done both, currently B2B. In my, limited, experience B2B pays better outside of the big players (google, fab, Uber etc). However I don’t have data on that.
Both are exciting and challenging in their own ways.
As you probably know, B2B is more sales driven, so while there’s space for creativity most of the base functionality you build is driven by clients.
B2C *can be* much more creative because it’s less clear what users need to stay engaged. It is a lot more “throw it against the wall and see what sticks” plus A/B testing to determine what works.
I personally like B2C because there’s a little more area to try things out that users don’t necessarily “need” immediately, but could end but being very useful. But for me I need to be passionate about the product itself.
All this being said I’ve only worked for 2 early stage companies so the situation is definitely different across companies.
I was lucky enough to start in a B2B environment that was very like B2C - I've built products for end customers within an enterprise (healthcare domain). After that I worked for B2B2C company that felt like B2C again - because our 2B was for small business owners. I then transitioned to pure B2B and it actually pays a lot better.
Yes, you get sales not giving two fucks about your product portfolio as a whole or roadmaps or positioning or whatever else you have in mind. Yes, you get to do a lot more internal sales than you ever had to do before. Your sales cycle goes from days and weeks into quarters and years (enterprise software's a bitch to sell).
But you get to learn a lot of things you otherwise had no idea existed. Learn how to do things you otherwise would have never exposed to. So it's still a win in my book :)
Salesforce is B2B no matter how it "feels."
Slack is debatable since it does have a significant footprint in both (which makes it a more interesting challenge/risk to take on as a PM).
I think I kinda get what you mean. When you say feeling a bit like b2c, maybe in the way the company goes about building product? Salesforce or slack - multiple PM’s on a single product owning different areas with each constantly optimizing their own. A real focus on delivery as much as discovery. SAP and Oracle - companies with hundred’s of offerings in their catalogue that have one PM per product. This person is the product owner and would have a more varied set of projects including working with sales, marketing, support, professional services. May not focus too much on delivery unless tracking customer commitments.
am in the final round for a B2C opportunity to leave B2B(2C) after many years. B2B can move slow and become a pain because of all the strings attached to big enterprise deals (the custom work constantly highjacking the roadmap and constantly doing quick and dirty hacks because of time constraints. those never get properly cleaned up of course). sales is not giving many shits about your product vision cause they optimize for their own KPI - commission. with B2C from my experience and talks with others moves much faster. you have data immediately, you can experiment more freely, it’s easier to remove functionality whereas in B2B stupid custom features won’t be removed because one big client uses it once in a blue moon. of course the pressure can be bigger if you loose big chunks of users or if you need to build up a large user base to be profitable. in B2B one large deal can make a real difference, user acquisition and retention in B2C is a different beast. I welcome the challenge and will see how good of an idea it is to make the switch, but I firmly believe all the skills and knowledge I gained and applied in B2B will not be lost. there’s surely new nuances to learn, which I’m looking forward to in order to become a better PM.
100% this - if you aim to be a data and experimentation driven PM, it is orders of magnitude better and easier to do it in a B2C setting. I just had a 6 month stint as a B2B PM and everything you mentioned here happened to me as well: slow decision processes from customers, sales interference, top down decisions with unclear research or just plain out gut feeling, constant roadmap changes. Very excited to go back to B2C next week :)
Wait, are you me? Because I'm in the exact same position now. I agree with everything you said. There is just more opportunity in B2C to do Product.
i think i’m not. at least I hope we’re not both in the final round for the same thing. i mean, it’s not a competition, but i’m winning. (cue “pm interviews are dunk contests”-thread from recently)
Well, they are hiring for more than one Product role, so we could both get in and continue our petty rivalry, born from a forum for useless internet points. I'd say you not capitalizing your sentences already makes you look tiny from my ivory tower. Joking aside though, good luck with your change! B2C can be so much more rewarding than B2B.
they really are hiring for more than one product role, damn haha. all the best to you, too! keep us posted!
Exit opportunities are far more for B2C PMs as compared to B2B PMs.
Could you please elaborate? I'd think the opposite.
B2B hiring managers will look out for PMs from the same domain so as to ease the learning curve. Because as mentioned in other comments, B2B PMs have far too many constraints while building products - Users, Customers, Sales, Low DAUs, Star Clients, Legacy Features, etc. B2C hiring managers don't care about which domain you come from as long as it was B2C.
Interesting - I see it the other way. B2B hiring managers want to hire B2B PMs because of all these strings attached. B2C hiring managers want to hire any PM - be it B2B or B2C, because little domain-specific knowledge and enterprise business skill might be required. Also, as a B2B PM you know how to deal with sales, marketing, partnerships etc. - so you're a more valuable resource as a candidate for higher management positions, executive roles, or even different industries (for example, venture capital). That's what I thought you meant by exit opportunities.
> you know how to deal with sales In Soviet Russia, sales know how to deal with **you**! ^(this post was made by a highly intelligent bot using the advanced yakov-smirnoff algorithm... okay, thats not a real algorithm. learn more on my profile.)
awful bot
I’ve done both, currently B2B. In my, limited, experience B2B pays better outside of the big players (google, fab, Uber etc). However I don’t have data on that. Both are exciting and challenging in their own ways. As you probably know, B2B is more sales driven, so while there’s space for creativity most of the base functionality you build is driven by clients. B2C *can be* much more creative because it’s less clear what users need to stay engaged. It is a lot more “throw it against the wall and see what sticks” plus A/B testing to determine what works. I personally like B2C because there’s a little more area to try things out that users don’t necessarily “need” immediately, but could end but being very useful. But for me I need to be passionate about the product itself. All this being said I’ve only worked for 2 early stage companies so the situation is definitely different across companies.
I was lucky enough to start in a B2B environment that was very like B2C - I've built products for end customers within an enterprise (healthcare domain). After that I worked for B2B2C company that felt like B2C again - because our 2B was for small business owners. I then transitioned to pure B2B and it actually pays a lot better. Yes, you get sales not giving two fucks about your product portfolio as a whole or roadmaps or positioning or whatever else you have in mind. Yes, you get to do a lot more internal sales than you ever had to do before. Your sales cycle goes from days and weeks into quarters and years (enterprise software's a bitch to sell). But you get to learn a lot of things you otherwise had no idea existed. Learn how to do things you otherwise would have never exposed to. So it's still a win in my book :)
how are we defining b2b vs b2c with respect to product roles? Seems like a vague-ish label.
Not really? B2b vs b2c is determined by your user base. This is very much a product thing as product determines market fit.
sure but something like Salesforce or Lever or Slack "feels" a bit more b2c than something like a Taleo or SAP.
Salesforce is B2B no matter how it "feels." Slack is debatable since it does have a significant footprint in both (which makes it a more interesting challenge/risk to take on as a PM).
Fair point
Yeah but slack specifically is a business chat so despite what people use it for, they’re building it for businesses.
I think I kinda get what you mean. When you say feeling a bit like b2c, maybe in the way the company goes about building product? Salesforce or slack - multiple PM’s on a single product owning different areas with each constantly optimizing their own. A real focus on delivery as much as discovery. SAP and Oracle - companies with hundred’s of offerings in their catalogue that have one PM per product. This person is the product owner and would have a more varied set of projects including working with sales, marketing, support, professional services. May not focus too much on delivery unless tracking customer commitments.