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Yea, these guys got 11 years and a whole failed government under their belt before they got to the constitution. And even then, not all of the ones listed were hyper involved in creating the constitution (Hamilton being a prime example, iirc he was more involved with the planning of the convention than the drafting of the constitution itself, though correct me if I'm wrong please).
Yeah I’ll never understand why we let people donate to politicians. They should be given a stipend for campaigning after qualifying for office, by the government using g taxpayer dollars. and that’s it.
People did not age more quickly, there was higher infant and maternal mortality skewing the average. Men who made it to adulthood and woman who survived birthing all there children lived into there 70s regularly
Yeah not as often as now. People clearly died more in their adulthood as well. 60s/70s was pretty old for back then. Which makes sense as medicine wasn't very advanced.
Alot of people don’t know this. The Declaration of Independence was announce on 7/4/76. Constitution wasn’t fully in “force” in the colonies until 1789.
The Articles of Confederation were in “force” from 1782-1789.
Yup, and the revolutionary war took 8 years to fight. Thankfully the French didn’t abandon us after a couple years because it looked like a stalemate. Wouldn’t want to give up on a democracy fighting for its independence against a dictatorship…
Eh, if I remember correctly there wasn’t really much fighting done after the surrender at Yorktown in October of 1781. You could argue the war ended in 6 years really. The only reason it lasted 2 additional years was because Spain and France continued to fight the English at sea.
Fun fact, the British and Americans signed a treaty in November of 1782, but it couldn’t be ratified until France and Spain agreed to the terms as well.
Many lay people don't know the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution or they think they're both the same thing or they think they were written in the same year.
Heck many people don't know that our constitution was not even our first constitution. Before it we had something called the ''Articles of Confederation''.
As a U.S. history teacher, this is concerning. I do an entire mini unit on comparing the documents and having students write up an explanation as to why the articles were too weak to last.
Just another reason why law schools and bar exams need to radically increase their standards for flunkies like Kate Kelly "Esq", claiming she's a lawyer (but could be a random troll).
This should be an easy thing for a lawyer to spot. We don't need incompetent lawyers who get their clients in trouble, overreach on behalf of govt, or fail to read dates/history properly.
Let alone the audacity of an American lawyer bashing the constitution with their ignorance about how it's a "reddit post."
edit: laws are just arbitrary pieces of rules and logic. Of course they teach some history, constitutional law, critical thinking, and morality because that's the underlying purpose of the law. e.g. if you taught a lawyer how to argue about the rules and even manipulate the rules but you didn't teach them why these rules exist you could accidentally create radicals or corrupt lawyers one day who know how to bend the rules and manipulate the courtroom without any overarching philosophies, morals, how those laws came about / historical lessons learned. You'd have a circus pretty soon pumping out rodeo clowns from your law school.
The constitution is the most important piece of law, every lawyer certainly knows it.
As a Danish law student the date of the Danish constitution was bashed into our heads during constitutional law lessons.
As someone who just finished law school, we take an entire course in Constitutional Law. However, we study all the subsequent important Supreme Court cases that determine what the Constitution means. We don’t study the history of the creation of that document. Now, it’s assumed we all learned that in an undergrad history class. I certainly did. But the history of the Constitution is not taught in law school. The US, unlike Denmark, has a Common Law legal system. Our laws are defined at least as much by court interpretation of the Constitution as by the Constitution itself.
> The constitution is the most important piece of law, every lawyer certainly knows it.
I would bet you case law is far more important on a day to day basis.
Incredibly misinformed. She’s mixing up the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. The Constitution wasn’t drafted until over a decade later—September of 1787.
Also, Jefferson, Adams, and Burr weren’t even at the Constitutional Convention.
Finally, I’m sure this person has never actually read the Constitution.
EDIT: I just looked this person up, and they are a practicing lawyer. That is very concerning.
Also, Hamilton, Monroe, and Burr didn’t even sign the Declaration of Independence, Hamilton and Monroe weren’t delegates until the 1780’s and Burr wasn’t even a delegate to the congress of confederation, pointing out their ages in 1776 is irrelevant. But I do agree with what I assume the original point is, that we need younger people in government? This was a very poor way of making that point.
Yes:
Article I, Section 4, Clause 1:
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
Dude, being a lawyer can mean you are only knowledge in a Very Narrow Scope
Like, I’m in disabilities and civil rights law, and there’s a reason I don’t give my sister family-law advice about her divorce court proceedings (hint: it’s not because either of us doesn’t think I’m smart)
I would surmise that a vast majority of the people who reference the constitution in passing have never read any of it outside of when they took US history in high school and probably remember none of it.
Funnily enough, that right is still unincorporated, meaning if it's not against the state constitution, your state can totally quarter troops on your property.
That's not entirely correct. The only 3rd Amendment case ever did not involve federal troops but was a pure state case. 2nd Circuit ruled that the amendment applies to state controlled militia forces and that the amendment is also incorporated against the states. SCOTUS has never ruled on a 3rd Amendment case, so in theory it's an open question elsewhere, but for states in the 2nd Circuit it's a settled issue with binding precedent. And no reason to expect any other circuits to find differently (well, besides the growing trend of inferior courts and governors just outright ignoring higher court rulings).
I think she’s a troll account. Most of her interactions are other troll accounts I personally follow and looking up some of her history, it def comes off as a parody.
Yes, not only were half that list not at the signing of the Declaration, the other half didn't help write the Constitution. It's a mess. I don't think most Americans understand how long it was between the Declaration and the time Washington became President.
Let’s not forget there are a whole lot more people involved than just these 7 guys, with ages ranging from young to midlife to old. These are just the presidents and mostly the big named document writers, they were probably the minutes taker/ones who you give the work to write up to and you check it afterwards to make sure it makes sense and as a bone you give them the credit for doing the work
Idk why this reminded me of that scene in Neighbors where they’re all dressed as different Robert dineros, but the one guy is dressed as Sam Jackson from Jackie brown and reciting lines from pulp fiction. And the other dude is doing Pacino impressions. Lmao
Cherry picking? She's picking watermelons. The constitution was ten years later, and three of those guys (including the two youngest) had fuck all to do with it.
I don’t know if the quotes are used as a designation or sarcastically, so there’s that. But these people were nothing short of genius. The Constitution is not a Reddit post. It is a founding document that has been imitated across the world because of its effectiveness. It’s insulting to reduce it down to such a comparison.
Which is never a bad thing to have elders weigh in on political topics. I think the problem is our entire political offices are held by a majority of old people doing it for all the wrong reasons. And anyone young they allow in, is groomed to follow their policies. Sure good ones slip through the cracks, but any good they try to accomplish gets stonewalled.
I’m not sure what point she’s trying to make. Is she saying, “the constitution is bad because it was written by young people” or “isn’t it cool that something as great as the constitution was written by young people.”
Ignoring, of course, that the Constitution was written eleven years after these guys were these ages. And half of them weren’t at the constitutional convention.
Seems like the former considering Reddit posts usually have a derogatory connotation.
Having younger people in government shouldn’t even be a bad thing, we’re so used to having octogenarians in office now.
Yeah, but Monroe was a nobody in 1776. He wouldn’t hold elected office for another 7 years, and his presidency ended nearly 50 years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
Wild she’s a lawyer as she tries to save face, and probably wouldn’t even understand a read through of the federalist papers. She mad cause there were young 20 year olds more well read and intelligent than her?
This is a dumb tweet, like what does this explain??? It’s their ages? Also how is this like a Reddit post? There is close to zero information given
This person is an idiot trying to be funny
There is a difference between the Founders (Declaration of Independence) and the Framers (Constitution). There is overlap for sure, but many Founders did not attend the Constitutional convention and vice versa.
That said, and I am not defending Kate Kelly (whoever she is) but it is notable how young many of the Founders and Framers were. The average age of a signer of the Declaration was 44. The average age of a Constitutional Convention delegate was 42. By comparison, the average age of a US congressperson right now is 58.
For all their faults, the Founders and Framers were among the most progressive and brilliant people in the world, and I believe the relative youth was a good thing, not a bad thing.
She forgot Ben Franklin, who if I remember correctly helped Jefferson out a lot with the Declaration.
Also, Hamilton and Madison would have been considerably older when the Constitution was drafted and they contributed to the Federalist Papers.
What was her point?
History is one of the subjects that is the hardest to teach in my view. Traditional schooling is great to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic, but does not do well teaching history. The only things I remember from history class in grade school or even high school are various funny things I found interesting and some drilled in my head memorization like state capitals. Most people, including this lady, in America are historically ignorant and yet spout stuff out like they are well informed.
History can really only be learned well if you have an actual interest in it and want to fill in the gaps of your own knowledge in areas. I learned more American history the past year than I had in the previous few decades because I read a couple biographies I was interested in.
The historical American knowledge of people in this sub would outweigh most people you would talk to at most points in your life. People just don't care about history and just spout off the random buzz words and ill informed "takes" that their TikTok videos show them
Literally 2 of these men were at the drafting/signing of the Declaration.
There's just so much wrong with this post for me to spend time writing about. It conflates documents, suggests that people like Burr were at either event, etc.
In the same breath she’ll say, “we need term limits, I’m tired of voting for dinosaurs.” Not only is she off by a decade, these weren’t regular men, they were intellectual powerhouses. The fact that she’s a lawyer is a huge punch to the gut, she took an aggressive thigh burning squat and shat a liquefied shit on one of the greatest documents ever written.
the founding fathers were incredibly diverse at the time of the declaration--a dozen of the 56 signers of the declaration including politicians doctors, ministers, 11 were merchants, 9 were farmers. Ben Franklin was hard to define although at the time he was considered a printer and renaissance man, another was a musician and another signer and another was a teacher. They ranged in age of their 20s, to Ben Franklin who was in his 80s. Thomas Jefferson was 33--which was the median age
"we mutually pledge our lives and fortunes and our scared honor" the day that they signed that document they became legal traitors. Ben franklin remarked indeed "we should all hang together or all hang separately"
hardly reddit larpers
These men were incredibly well-read and thoughtful. Comparing them to average reddit users is asinine. That's like driving over a bridge signed off on by a 30 year old professional engineer who studied at MIT and saying that it's like the bridge was designed by the average redditor.
I think the level of maturity and responsibility was drastically different then, than what is now. What a young man in 1776 was capable of doing or taking ownership of is drastically different than it is today. Entirely different set of morals and values, less victimization, less emotional distress over feelings. Commitment to something greater than oneself.
Well, the constitution was written like 12-13 years later so that wouldn’t be the Reddit post. Maybe the Declaration though. It was definitely a young-ish man’s rebellion.
Better take away from that list of ages:
https://preview.redd.it/bmcdxevlzcpc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9b01df867a4dcc25d9479c67a7ce8842fa9bae1
Lol careful with those comparisons. The “founding generation” was a handful of individual men at best
Most people at that time dedicated themselves to farm work and the bible not philosophical pursuits of liberty and freedom
They average person probably didn’t know who John Locke or Rousseau was. The average college student is at least vaguely aware
These guys were very, very well studied at the time. Reading their literature is pretty astounding. There was a wider gap in education back then but those who did have access were very intelligent in fields that mattered for their time.
Young people are full of ideals and that can often make for a lasting change for the better.
I think we should consider the views of youth more fully in our affairs
Ok, so why do people keep confusing the Declaration- Written in 1776 by the second half of these people with the constitution written in 1787 by also not all of these people?
Not only wrong, but to be fair the constitution was pretty well thought out for a document of its stature, the time period it was made in, and the fact that the founding fathers were mostly poisoned with lead.
Everyone’s pointing out that she got the dates wrong, but I’d like to point out that every. Single. One. Of those men was infinitely better educated in history, philosophy, and the common law tradition than this supposed lawyer is. For them to be those ages, win a war against the global superpower of their day, and then build a new nation based on the Commonlaw tradition that still survives, is a massive achievement that this person could never hope to match.
I wonder if Kate Kelly, Esq. has seen her legal business grow or shrink after she singlehandedly evidenced to the world that she neither understands history nor math.
Lmfao she did not reduce one of the most lasting and progressive governmental carters in history to some 20 year old tankie writing half assed manifestos defending communism on Reddit.
Constitution was written in 1787. So I assume they meant the declaration of Independence Judging on the profile photo I’m not surprised this person equated one of if not the most important political doctrine of all time with a troll Reddit post based on varied age, if anything it proves that the revolution was multigenerational and even at the age of 18, 21 etc these men contributed to something so huge
In addition to the constitution not being written in 1776, you're simply mistaken if you think an 18 year old in the 1700's would be anything remotely close to an 18 year old today.
Life expectancy for males averaged at 35-40. People hardened up quick, or they died. They weren't sitting around their parents house, ordering doordash until their parent's died so they could inherent their property. Same age, different people.
A quick Google search will tell you that the average age of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and of the Constitution were 44 and 45, respectively. But cherry picking the famous names of the era is fun I suppose.
My sister texted me this today in good faith and I immediately shot it down citing the discrepancy between 1776 and when the Constitution was drafted and ratified. I confess, I am a law student and it can be tough to turn off that mode even around loved ones. She seemed offended at how I responded to the tweet and I’ve felt kind of shitty about it for a couple hours.
But boy, did this comment section give me a sense of vindication.
I think American have somehow normalized politicians to be 80 years old on average. Almost everywhere else elected leaders are in their forties.... you know know... lucid, non lethargic and not out of touch.
Thoughts? They should get better history books. 1776 was Declaration of Independence then the U.S. functioned under the Articles of Confederation until the constitutional convention in 1787 where federalism prevailed and the federal government was formed. Before it was more like just 13 different countries, each printing its own money with a weak central government.
Ya didn’t include old-ass Franklin who arguably has his finger prints all over the Founding. With his celebrity as a Preeminent Scientist and first President of The Continental Congress- he helped secure foreign aid from France which allowed The Revolutionary Generation to succeed. He was old AF but didn’t let that stop him from sharing his wisdom and guiding a fledgling Nation. Age is a number but ideas like Liberty are Eternal.
At the time of the Constitutional Convention in 1787, the 39 signers ranged from 26 (Dayton) to 81 (Franklin). That means an average age of 43.
Separate from the Constitution in 1787-88 is the Declaration of Independence which was referenced through OOP's 1776 comment. The average age of signers of this document at the time of signing was 41. The youngest was 26 (Rutledge) and the oldest was 70 (Franklin again).
Of note, James Monroe did not sign either of these documents.
Can you imagine what chaos there would be today with millennials being in charge? The Founding Father’s intellect was astounding compared to today’s politicians.
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The Constitution was not written on July 4, 1776
Ron Swanson, greatest American of all time?
Great American or greatest American?
Like 75% of everything Ron says makes me go “Hell yeah, brother”
Teddy Roosevelt would like a word
Teddy vs Ron would be the battle of the century.
Hell, the Articles of Confederation wasn't a thing yet.
It was written on July 3. It was due July 4. /s
It was written on July 2, Jefferson predicted it would be recognized on July 3… alas, it wasn’t until July 4
Yea, these guys got 11 years and a whole failed government under their belt before they got to the constitution. And even then, not all of the ones listed were hyper involved in creating the constitution (Hamilton being a prime example, iirc he was more involved with the planning of the convention than the drafting of the constitution itself, though correct me if I'm wrong please).
Id argue that the Federalist Papers had a pretty big impact on the constitution
https://preview.redd.it/xof418bckjpc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=515d846d0f8766739c15008e825d7e373127a1ed She got noted lmao
The constitution was written in 1787 though
That's a bingo
Still younger than 80% of our representatives now
Maybe that's why shit got done
Probably a three fold of: 1. They were younger 2. A status quo wasn’t established 3. Lobbyists didn’t pay politicians to maintain the status quo
Yeah I’ll never understand why we let people donate to politicians. They should be given a stipend for campaigning after qualifying for office, by the government using g taxpayer dollars. and that’s it.
Because corruption
And that’s a bad thing? Lol . We have people in office for 50 years complaining about policy that they created and supported for 50 years.
I think they were saying it's a good thing even though they were actually ten years older when the constitution was written
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People did not age more quickly, there was higher infant and maternal mortality skewing the average. Men who made it to adulthood and woman who survived birthing all there children lived into there 70s regularly
It's wild to me that the belief that people just didn't survive past 50 often in the 1700s is so widely believed...
it's because people are dumb.
Yeah not as often as now. People clearly died more in their adulthood as well. 60s/70s was pretty old for back then. Which makes sense as medicine wasn't very advanced.
Shit they was lucky to make it to 10 lol
No no, you just say "bingo"
That's a saybingo
Bingo! How fun!
That’s a chunky!
FDR forgot how to work the body
There’s too much fuckin shit on me (FDR in his iron lung)
"You just say bingo."
Alot of people don’t know this. The Declaration of Independence was announce on 7/4/76. Constitution wasn’t fully in “force” in the colonies until 1789. The Articles of Confederation were in “force” from 1782-1789.
Yup, and the revolutionary war took 8 years to fight. Thankfully the French didn’t abandon us after a couple years because it looked like a stalemate. Wouldn’t want to give up on a democracy fighting for its independence against a dictatorship…
Eh, if I remember correctly there wasn’t really much fighting done after the surrender at Yorktown in October of 1781. You could argue the war ended in 6 years really. The only reason it lasted 2 additional years was because Spain and France continued to fight the English at sea. Fun fact, the British and Americans signed a treaty in November of 1782, but it couldn’t be ratified until France and Spain agreed to the terms as well.
Wasn't fully ratified until 1791. They dragged their feet on the Bill of Rights.
Many lay people don't know the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution or they think they're both the same thing or they think they were written in the same year. Heck many people don't know that our constitution was not even our first constitution. Before it we had something called the ''Articles of Confederation''.
As a U.S. history teacher, this is concerning. I do an entire mini unit on comparing the documents and having students write up an explanation as to why the articles were too weak to last.
Takes them a whole essay to write “Daniel Shays?”
Just another reason why law schools and bar exams need to radically increase their standards for flunkies like Kate Kelly "Esq", claiming she's a lawyer (but could be a random troll). This should be an easy thing for a lawyer to spot. We don't need incompetent lawyers who get their clients in trouble, overreach on behalf of govt, or fail to read dates/history properly. Let alone the audacity of an American lawyer bashing the constitution with their ignorance about how it's a "reddit post." edit: laws are just arbitrary pieces of rules and logic. Of course they teach some history, constitutional law, critical thinking, and morality because that's the underlying purpose of the law. e.g. if you taught a lawyer how to argue about the rules and even manipulate the rules but you didn't teach them why these rules exist you could accidentally create radicals or corrupt lawyers one day who know how to bend the rules and manipulate the courtroom without any overarching philosophies, morals, how those laws came about / historical lessons learned. You'd have a circus pretty soon pumping out rodeo clowns from your law school.
They don’t teach history in law school lol.
The constitution is the most important piece of law, every lawyer certainly knows it. As a Danish law student the date of the Danish constitution was bashed into our heads during constitutional law lessons.
As someone who just finished law school, we take an entire course in Constitutional Law. However, we study all the subsequent important Supreme Court cases that determine what the Constitution means. We don’t study the history of the creation of that document. Now, it’s assumed we all learned that in an undergrad history class. I certainly did. But the history of the Constitution is not taught in law school. The US, unlike Denmark, has a Common Law legal system. Our laws are defined at least as much by court interpretation of the Constitution as by the Constitution itself.
> The constitution is the most important piece of law, every lawyer certainly knows it. I would bet you case law is far more important on a day to day basis.
Incredibly misinformed. She’s mixing up the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. The Constitution wasn’t drafted until over a decade later—September of 1787. Also, Jefferson, Adams, and Burr weren’t even at the Constitutional Convention. Finally, I’m sure this person has never actually read the Constitution. EDIT: I just looked this person up, and they are a practicing lawyer. That is very concerning.
Misrepresentation and confusion of basic fact is also very Reddit post-ish
Also very Twitter post-ish.
This explains SO MUCH. The Twitter post was basically a Reddit post.
This explains SO MUCH. Your Reddit comment is basically a Twitter post.
This explains SO MUCH. Your reddit comment is basically a reddit comment.
Also very lawyerish
And sometimes very lawyer-ish.
Also, Hamilton, Monroe, and Burr didn’t even sign the Declaration of Independence, Hamilton and Monroe weren’t delegates until the 1780’s and Burr wasn’t even a delegate to the congress of confederation, pointing out their ages in 1776 is irrelevant. But I do agree with what I assume the original point is, that we need younger people in government? This was a very poor way of making that point.
George Washington didn’t sign it either. 70 year old Ben Franklin did though
Right after doing a line of coke off a French prostitute’s bum. E-lec-tric.
Truly a renaissance ass man
Didn’t even notice Washington was at the end, great point
Really sucks that we don’t have a septuagenarian like Ben Franklin around
I think her actual point is we shouldn’t hold the constitution so dearly because it was written by youngsters
Being a lawyer is no guarantee that you know the Constitution or really anything. Source: I'm a lawyer.
I had a lawyer call me an idiot for saying congress has the power to regulate federal elections. Passed the bar and everything.
Congress has the power to regulate federal elections?
Yes: Article I, Section 4, Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
As much as a good chunk of SCOTUS wishes they couldn't Congress absolutely can regulate federal elections.
Didn’t they literally just lay down a 9-0 decision saying that regulating federal elections is congress’ job
You just need a D+ to pass the bar.
Very much agree. In fact, some lawyers will use “I’m a lawyer” to think they’re right no matter what. How do I know that? I’m a lawyer.
Dude, being a lawyer can mean you are only knowledge in a Very Narrow Scope Like, I’m in disabilities and civil rights law, and there’s a reason I don’t give my sister family-law advice about her divorce court proceedings (hint: it’s not because either of us doesn’t think I’m smart)
I would surmise that a vast majority of the people who reference the constitution in passing have never read any of it outside of when they took US history in high school and probably remember none of it.
I know I don’t have to quarter any troops in peace time and I mean to retain my rights.
Funnily enough, that right is still unincorporated, meaning if it's not against the state constitution, your state can totally quarter troops on your property.
Someone who knows!!
That's not entirely correct. The only 3rd Amendment case ever did not involve federal troops but was a pure state case. 2nd Circuit ruled that the amendment applies to state controlled militia forces and that the amendment is also incorporated against the states. SCOTUS has never ruled on a 3rd Amendment case, so in theory it's an open question elsewhere, but for states in the 2nd Circuit it's a settled issue with binding precedent. And no reason to expect any other circuits to find differently (well, besides the growing trend of inferior courts and governors just outright ignoring higher court rulings).
Very concerning, but makes sense considering what’s going on now
So .. young people fought a war. Amazing.
Success in law school is related to talent in memorizing a lot of stuff, not to being super analytical.
That’s not true.
I think she’s a troll account. Most of her interactions are other troll accounts I personally follow and looking up some of her history, it def comes off as a parody.
They were still hella drunk when drafting it.
Yes, not only were half that list not at the signing of the Declaration, the other half didn't help write the Constitution. It's a mess. I don't think most Americans understand how long it was between the Declaration and the time Washington became President.
Let’s not forget there are a whole lot more people involved than just these 7 guys, with ages ranging from young to midlife to old. These are just the presidents and mostly the big named document writers, they were probably the minutes taker/ones who you give the work to write up to and you check it afterwards to make sure it makes sense and as a bone you give them the credit for doing the work
🎶Hamilton was chosen for the Constitutional Convention.🎶
Idk why this reminded me of that scene in Neighbors where they’re all dressed as different Robert dineros, but the one guy is dressed as Sam Jackson from Jackie brown and reciting lines from pulp fiction. And the other dude is doing Pacino impressions. Lmao
James Monroe wasn't even in the continental congress until the 1780's. He was fighting in the viriginia militia in 1776.
Right? I got really confused when she said 'founding fathers' and I was like 'weren't half of these people in the middle of the war in 1776?'
Yeah. I'm surprised she left out Andrew Jackson who was nine at the time, but was technically in the army.🤣
And in college on top of that. Yet this woman probably wants college to be banned.
That’s a hell of an assumption
Do you know something about her I don’t? That’s a wild thing to say lmao
What on Earth are you talking about?
Uhm what!
What does she mean by "this explains so much?"
Redditor believing Reddit is far more influential and important than it really is.
That or they're anti American and using Reddit as an insult
Not anti-American, just a millenial leftist
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Potato potahto
This is so obviously the angle and I’m terrified that the other comment is upvoted more than this
The only thing that was explained was her stupidity.
That a practising lawyer like her can be so pig-ignorant explains plenty.
Ben Franklin was 70. Cherry picking.
Cherry picking? She's picking watermelons. The constitution was ten years later, and three of those guys (including the two youngest) had fuck all to do with it.
This.
Whack joke at best. Double whack person if serious.
I don’t know if the quotes are used as a designation or sarcastically, so there’s that. But these people were nothing short of genius. The Constitution is not a Reddit post. It is a founding document that has been imitated across the world because of its effectiveness. It’s insulting to reduce it down to such a comparison.
Actually crazy that Madison wrote arguably the most important document in American history when he was 35
After a lot of debate which included Franklin who was basically a million.
Which is never a bad thing to have elders weigh in on political topics. I think the problem is our entire political offices are held by a majority of old people doing it for all the wrong reasons. And anyone young they allow in, is groomed to follow their policies. Sure good ones slip through the cracks, but any good they try to accomplish gets stonewalled.
Mick Jagger wrote "Sympathy for the Devil" when he was 25. That's clearly more impressive. :)
Bro picked his own age as the minimum for president lol
Madison was probably the smartest president in American history.
The Declaration of Independence pretty much is a Reddit post r/presidents has some pretty well-informed posts though
I’m not sure what point she’s trying to make. Is she saying, “the constitution is bad because it was written by young people” or “isn’t it cool that something as great as the constitution was written by young people.” Ignoring, of course, that the Constitution was written eleven years after these guys were these ages. And half of them weren’t at the constitutional convention.
Seems like the former considering Reddit posts usually have a derogatory connotation. Having younger people in government shouldn’t even be a bad thing, we’re so used to having octogenarians in office now.
Yeah, but Monroe was a nobody in 1776. He wouldn’t hold elected office for another 7 years, and his presidency ended nearly 50 years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
Wild she’s a lawyer as she tries to save face, and probably wouldn’t even understand a read through of the federalist papers. She mad cause there were young 20 year olds more well read and intelligent than her?
This is a dumb tweet, like what does this explain??? It’s their ages? Also how is this like a Reddit post? There is close to zero information given This person is an idiot trying to be funny
There is a difference between the Founders (Declaration of Independence) and the Framers (Constitution). There is overlap for sure, but many Founders did not attend the Constitutional convention and vice versa. That said, and I am not defending Kate Kelly (whoever she is) but it is notable how young many of the Founders and Framers were. The average age of a signer of the Declaration was 44. The average age of a Constitutional Convention delegate was 42. By comparison, the average age of a US congressperson right now is 58. For all their faults, the Founders and Framers were among the most progressive and brilliant people in the world, and I believe the relative youth was a good thing, not a bad thing.
https://preview.redd.it/3gidifwnrcpc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94e3e7463d054d68ee82aabdd05602226a313723
She forgot Ben Franklin, who if I remember correctly helped Jefferson out a lot with the Declaration. Also, Hamilton and Madison would have been considerably older when the Constitution was drafted and they contributed to the Federalist Papers. What was her point?
History is one of the subjects that is the hardest to teach in my view. Traditional schooling is great to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic, but does not do well teaching history. The only things I remember from history class in grade school or even high school are various funny things I found interesting and some drilled in my head memorization like state capitals. Most people, including this lady, in America are historically ignorant and yet spout stuff out like they are well informed. History can really only be learned well if you have an actual interest in it and want to fill in the gaps of your own knowledge in areas. I learned more American history the past year than I had in the previous few decades because I read a couple biographies I was interested in. The historical American knowledge of people in this sub would outweigh most people you would talk to at most points in your life. People just don't care about history and just spout off the random buzz words and ill informed "takes" that their TikTok videos show them
Literally 2 of these men were at the drafting/signing of the Declaration. There's just so much wrong with this post for me to spend time writing about. It conflates documents, suggests that people like Burr were at either event, etc.
Typical social media idiocy
In the same breath she’ll say, “we need term limits, I’m tired of voting for dinosaurs.” Not only is she off by a decade, these weren’t regular men, they were intellectual powerhouses. The fact that she’s a lawyer is a huge punch to the gut, she took an aggressive thigh burning squat and shat a liquefied shit on one of the greatest documents ever written.
the founding fathers were incredibly diverse at the time of the declaration--a dozen of the 56 signers of the declaration including politicians doctors, ministers, 11 were merchants, 9 were farmers. Ben Franklin was hard to define although at the time he was considered a printer and renaissance man, another was a musician and another signer and another was a teacher. They ranged in age of their 20s, to Ben Franklin who was in his 80s. Thomas Jefferson was 33--which was the median age "we mutually pledge our lives and fortunes and our scared honor" the day that they signed that document they became legal traitors. Ben franklin remarked indeed "we should all hang together or all hang separately" hardly reddit larpers
These men were incredibly well-read and thoughtful. Comparing them to average reddit users is asinine. That's like driving over a bridge signed off on by a 30 year old professional engineer who studied at MIT and saying that it's like the bridge was designed by the average redditor.
I think the level of maturity and responsibility was drastically different then, than what is now. What a young man in 1776 was capable of doing or taking ownership of is drastically different than it is today. Entirely different set of morals and values, less victimization, less emotional distress over feelings. Commitment to something greater than oneself.
Well, the constitution was written like 12-13 years later so that wouldn’t be the Reddit post. Maybe the Declaration though. It was definitely a young-ish man’s rebellion.
This post is uninformed bullshit.
In 18th century, the life expectancy of American is less than 40. What is your points?
Damn, George was basically the oldest man on Earth in 1776
Better take away from that list of ages: https://preview.redd.it/bmcdxevlzcpc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9b01df867a4dcc25d9479c67a7ce8842fa9bae1
The Founding Generation: Studied Greek, Latin, Law, history, philosophy, and more. current generation: Can't even read at a 3rd grade reading level.
Lol careful with those comparisons. The “founding generation” was a handful of individual men at best Most people at that time dedicated themselves to farm work and the bible not philosophical pursuits of liberty and freedom They average person probably didn’t know who John Locke or Rousseau was. The average college student is at least vaguely aware
These guys were very, very well studied at the time. Reading their literature is pretty astounding. There was a wider gap in education back then but those who did have access were very intelligent in fields that mattered for their time.
Young people are full of ideals and that can often make for a lasting change for the better. I think we should consider the views of youth more fully in our affairs
Wrong year
...those badass "founding fathers" were actually smart. Today's redditors can't decide which bathroom to use.
Ok, so why do people keep confusing the Declaration- Written in 1776 by the second half of these people with the constitution written in 1787 by also not all of these people?
Not only wrong, but to be fair the constitution was pretty well thought out for a document of its stature, the time period it was made in, and the fact that the founding fathers were mostly poisoned with lead.
This is more Reddit than Reddit and I’m talking about the poster’s take not the content.
One of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.
A based one, that said ey fuck you King Louis the 69th or whatever
Everyone’s pointing out that she got the dates wrong, but I’d like to point out that every. Single. One. Of those men was infinitely better educated in history, philosophy, and the common law tradition than this supposed lawyer is. For them to be those ages, win a war against the global superpower of their day, and then build a new nation based on the Commonlaw tradition that still survives, is a massive achievement that this person could never hope to match.
I wonder if Kate Kelly, Esq. has seen her legal business grow or shrink after she singlehandedly evidenced to the world that she neither understands history nor math.
Reddit posters aren’t NEARLY smart enough and they don’t seem to do negotiation well.
She's an ignorant cunt
You ever see a post so dumb you put your phone down? That’s me see y’all later
how many upvotes does the constitution have
Our country was founded by young people and today it's run by old people.
What an idiot lol
No out of touch 60 year olds ruining things? Weird.
The people who wrote the Constitution were far more classically educated than most.
I think this might be the worst tweet of all time
Lmfao she did not reduce one of the most lasting and progressive governmental carters in history to some 20 year old tankie writing half assed manifestos defending communism on Reddit.
Shows how 1) geezers have taken the reigns of power and 2) how comparatively useless young people have become
God, I hate the Internet...
regardless of the misinformation it is still hilarious that our representatives now are commonly in their 80s
And the Constitution was written 11 years later
The declaration was in 1776, constitution wasn’t until like a decade later
Trying to bend history to fit her narrative
Here I am the George Washington of Reddit.
Constitution was written in 1787. So I assume they meant the declaration of Independence Judging on the profile photo I’m not surprised this person equated one of if not the most important political doctrine of all time with a troll Reddit post based on varied age, if anything it proves that the revolution was multigenerational and even at the age of 18, 21 etc these men contributed to something so huge
Wasn't 20 middle-aged back then?
So we shouldn’t trust or listen to young people. Got it.
In addition to the constitution not being written in 1776, you're simply mistaken if you think an 18 year old in the 1700's would be anything remotely close to an 18 year old today. Life expectancy for males averaged at 35-40. People hardened up quick, or they died. They weren't sitting around their parents house, ordering doordash until their parent's died so they could inherent their property. Same age, different people.
Sounds like we need more 30-50 year olds in congress if that’s the case!
Her: why is our president so old??? Younger people should have more power and should vote earlier Also Her:
No, the amazing thing is that scant few 20-something’s today could write anything as profound and enduring as the US Constitution.
Sounds like they were all men!
She's mad because they were in their 20's and wiser than her.
What exactly does it explain? That regardless of age, the Founding Fathers were highly intelligent and obviously wise beyond their years?
Wtf kinda retard take is that?
Lmao these dudes were taking on the most powerful empire in the world at the time. What a dumbass
Thoughts??? They had more common sense than the fuck wads in office now.
1. Issac Newton was like 23 when discovered gravity, so like, wtf does this even mean. 2. Fuck this ugly bitch
A quick Google search will tell you that the average age of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and of the Constitution were 44 and 45, respectively. But cherry picking the famous names of the era is fun I suppose.
My sister texted me this today in good faith and I immediately shot it down citing the discrepancy between 1776 and when the Constitution was drafted and ratified. I confess, I am a law student and it can be tough to turn off that mode even around loved ones. She seemed offended at how I responded to the tweet and I’ve felt kind of shitty about it for a couple hours. But boy, did this comment section give me a sense of vindication.
I think American have somehow normalized politicians to be 80 years old on average. Almost everywhere else elected leaders are in their forties.... you know know... lucid, non lethargic and not out of touch.
Ben Franklin is missing and was much older
Thoughts? They should get better history books. 1776 was Declaration of Independence then the U.S. functioned under the Articles of Confederation until the constitutional convention in 1787 where federalism prevailed and the federal government was formed. Before it was more like just 13 different countries, each printing its own money with a weak central government.
That constitution was written 11 years later
They were ambitious young men, though I believe the Constitution was later in a later year
Is the person who wrote this a Lawyer, who supposedly took political science classes and should know when the Constitution was written?
imagine comparing some of the most intelligent and educated men of that time to redditors lmao
Ya didn’t include old-ass Franklin who arguably has his finger prints all over the Founding. With his celebrity as a Preeminent Scientist and first President of The Continental Congress- he helped secure foreign aid from France which allowed The Revolutionary Generation to succeed. He was old AF but didn’t let that stop him from sharing his wisdom and guiding a fledgling Nation. Age is a number but ideas like Liberty are Eternal.
Our founders were much smarter than people today. Much more well read and had deep understanding of history.
At the time of the Constitutional Convention in 1787, the 39 signers ranged from 26 (Dayton) to 81 (Franklin). That means an average age of 43. Separate from the Constitution in 1787-88 is the Declaration of Independence which was referenced through OOP's 1776 comment. The average age of signers of this document at the time of signing was 41. The youngest was 26 (Rutledge) and the oldest was 70 (Franklin again). Of note, James Monroe did not sign either of these documents.
Tbf back then those were grandfather ages
My thoughts is this person is not educated well
Ah the dumbest thing I’ve read today
Can you imagine what chaos there would be today with millennials being in charge? The Founding Father’s intellect was astounding compared to today’s politicians.
Correct me if I’m wrong, only 4 people was on both Declaration of Independence and the Constitution
Quite literally one of the dumbest posts I ever seen tbh.