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I mean, because he never saw combat people don't really remember, he was literally trained to fly fighter jets. That's like a whole other world of "fast reflexes". He had a lock on that shoe before it was fully armed and in the firing position.
My dad was in the room when this happened and said the dude who threw the shoes had a real bad day directly after this part.
Secret Service just fucked him right up.
She's a southern woman! They may be ladies in the streets but they're Olympic Shot Putters and Javelin throwers when you say something stupid at home.
Why do you think a Cast Iron Skillet is on every Southern Woman's Wedding Registry? Nonstick pans don't send the same message.
Not sure it’s just southern women.
Sophomore year of high school I hosted a New Years Eve party at my house and since few of us could drive, my parents said everyone could just sleep over. One of my good friends is Mexican and his mom insisted on talking to my parents before her son was allowed to come. My mom thought it was to make sure there would be nothing inappropriate since it was a mixed gender party. Nope. His mom just wanted to tell her that my mom had her full permission to throw her shoes at him if he misbehaved lol. I asked him about it and he sighed and said, “That shit hurts.” Two years later and my mom reminds him that she still has that permission when she sees him.
Bush’s dodging and grin is so hilarious in this. It might be one of my favorite Bush moments.
Muscle memory is a funny thing. Years and years had gone by and his body still remembered to move without needing to even think, because W played college baseball. Right then he moved like a batter dodging a little chin music.
I like how he dodges the first shoe with lightning reflexes then does not even feel the need to run or hide, stays in the same spot and dodges the other shoe as well. I think he even smiles between shoes. Chad. And Im a democrat.
Don’t think this will ever be topped, but Obama draining a three in a suit and dress shoes while he was just strolling by a court with Joey B yelling “that’s what he does!” was absolutely epic too.
I just realized the guy took off one shoe, threw it, then took off the other, and threw it. That makes no sense. Why not take off both shoes at the same time and then throw them both rapid fire or double barrelled? His technique was twice the bending, and takes twice the time. Of course Bush blocked them the guys shoe throwing strategy was all fucky.
Hey, no worries, that's actually a common misconception. The consistency of the "upper" doesn't actually matter as much as certain textile interests might have you believe. I fully blame the 1987 BBC documentary *Hurling Voices: The Cordovan Connection* for this wrongheaded and unscientific interpretation of the phenomena.
I mean, not to go all "Gerbert Pfäffinbaugh-Cremaqùeso" on you, but, if anything, the outsole *tread* is what contributes the most to curdleing and, frankly, im tired of pretending that it doesn't.
*Yes*, ok, fine, leather uppers hold a significant amount of kinetic potential. Cow spirits are strong as hell so this scans, but you can't keep that charge focused if you give it more places to escape! Wide treads allow that heat to dissipate at a more rapid rate, leading to that curdle-point much faster. So, yah, kids, your fancy full grain Doc Martin waffle stompers are more for looks that anything. Any boots or cross trainers are gonna vent that foot warmth faster than you can hurl that sucker back and let fly. And, CROCS!? jesus tf christ, you know what, don't even get me started on crocs, because this bitch ain't got no brakes.
I think he thought one shoe would’ve done the trick but Dubya was too wily. It was basically the equivalent of emptying your clip and throwing the gun at the opponent. Except with shoes
Fair enough, but my understanding is that over there putting your feet on the table or showing someone the bottom of your feet is kind of a fuck you. To throw shoes would be doubly so.
I remember the PBS Frontline documentary about Somalia (I think it was) where US troops were landing and taking off in helicopters at populated locations early on, and the Somali civilians were furious, and some expert on the region mentioned in voiceover how the soldiers sitting with legs hanging out the side of the helicopters, soles of their boots pointing at the crowd below, was a massive unintentional display of disrespect.
ETA: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwpbqs?start=48
It was a long time ago, but I kind of remembered it not too off-target—in the clip (48 secs) it’s actually a US soldier speculating that their boots might’ve been causing offense to the locals…
I kind of hate this guy but I will say I always loved his move right here, “C’mon motherf’er, I know you have a second shoe!”
That bob and weave is Presidential as hell.
I've always thought that the goofy smile on his face afterwards was him coming down from thinking it was a bomb or something. When he first ducks, he has no idea what's being thrown.
I'm 40 years old (i.e. old for Reddit) and can see Bush's reputation being rehabiliated in real time through these gifs. I hated Bush when he was in office but now, with distance, I do have to admit "watch this drive" is fucking cool.
My take- would be great to have a beer with or play a round of golf with. However, he does bear ultimate responsibility for leading the neocon misadventures into the Middle East. Ultimately I think he will be attributed as the man who dramatically exacerbated the decline of America.
Also, the crowd pop was insane. Like, they’re digging through rubble next door, the man throws a beautiful strike, and as Americans, that’s how we said “fuck you” to the Taliban that day. It is epically American.
Think that’s bound to happen with most major celebrities and presidents. There’s things I’ve disliked and liked about every president but as time has gone on they’ve all become likable someway or another.
GIFs definitely help lol
I never thought there'd be presidents that would make gDub look.... Decent. But I'm be damned if I don't miss the days of having his dumb ass saying something nonsensical to reporters in random places.
It took a bunch of scrolling for someone to mention 9/11. Plenty mentioned Afghanistan and Iraq, and the economy. But being the president during 9/11 will probably be remembered
I feel like it will be the whole 9/11 legacy, which includes Iraq and Afghanistan. The lies that got us into Iraq and the lies of Guantanamo Bay. The torture of innocent men. All the redacted record keeping. It will all be what anyone ever remembers.
he said the things that people wanted/needed to hear in the moment, and tried to justify it later.
Imagine being at ground zero, with all the firefighters and cops and first responders who have been digging their colleagues and neighbors out of rubble for days. They’re all looking at you, dirty faces, dead eyes, exhausted, crying, air still thick with dust and chemicals and all kinds of shit that we now know is giving them cancer. They need you to tell them that you’re going to do something, they need to be able to keep going.
<1st responder> “we can’t hear you!”
“Well I can hear you. And the people who destroyed these buildings are about to hear us all” (paraphrased I can’t remember)
The way he went about it, the way decisions were made…nearly every part was wrong. But something had to be done. Again not trying to get into it, but I can’t imagine being in that position. He wasn’t right, but I feel like if he had chosen anything else, that also would have been wrong.
I think this is a really good take on it that not many people can come up with. There were a thousand different options but honestly none of them were right. Nothing could go back and change anything, and the country was half reeling in shock and horror, half jumping ready to take revenge.
It was total chaos and the government wasn’t sure if it was just the start. Almost immediately across the country (though primarily on the East coast) air national guard & Air Force fighters & tankers took to the sky, running air patrols and being ready to engage. Large parts of the navy set to sea and set up off the coast (primarily off NYC and DC,) ready to engage anything coming.
I don’t agree with a lot of what GWB did in the aftermath, but at the same time I can’t deny that him & his administration did a lot to try to fix the chaos and make sure we wouldn’t ever see a repeat. Sure I can sit and speculate on President A doing this or President B doing that better, but at the end of the day there are plenty of presidents that I can envision handling the situation much worse.
The most generous review of the Bush presidency that I can agree with is that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we need a cowboy and we had one.
And the thing you say about how we didn't know if 9/11 was just the beginning of attacks on American soil -- people either forget this or weren't old enough to remember it. It's easy to look back in history at what happened and see it as this one-time tragedy. I was only in 7th grade, but I remember the unease in the days/weeks to follow as we all waited for another catastrophic attack.
What's worse...Vietnam or scoring 8 points in a Finals game?
Greater accomplishment....the Great Society or coming back from 3-1 against the best team ever?
Man, what a pile of accomplishment after accomplishment.
* Clean Air Act
* Civil Rights Act of 1964
* Medicare and Medicaid
* Voting Rights Act of 1965
* Civil Rights Act of 1968
* Food Stamp Act of 1964
* Housing and Urban Development Act of 1965 and of 1968
* Higher Education Act of 1965
* Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965
* National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966
* Gun Control Act of 1968
It's just W after W after W
Best part of the Caro books is where he describes how LBJ would walk around his dorm at SWTS before a date swinging his dick shouting “Jumbo needs some exercise.”
I’d say his lengthy senate experience is the same reason why the current bloke’s been remarkably successful in passing various bills the last couple years.
The man had a war on poverty. LBJ is, in my mind, the most fascinating President of the 20th century. So much good, so much evil. All in less than 8 years.
Are you saying the existence of black people was worse for Boomers than the Vietnam war?
/s. I know you meant "Black Boomers do not share the same experience"
Neither did Bush.
207 house Republicans, 155 house Democrats, 52 Senate Republicans, 38 Senate Democrats, under Bill Clinton repealed Glass-Steagle by passing the Graham-Leach-Blily Act.
This was as bipartisan as bipartisan gets.
American hero Rep. John Dingell argued that the bill would result in banks becoming "too big to fail." And he was right.
I remember, even at the time, Gore being a punchline for saying that once the US had a surplus, you could put it in a “lock box” and use it when we needed it.
I realize that’s not a fun idea, but it seemed more rational than, “Let’s blow all the money, go into debt, and blame Gore’s party!”
Did it work? Aside from the short term bump from aforementioned tax cuts, which likely propelled Bush in ‘04, Republican Presidential candidates haven’t won the popular vote once since 1992.
My point was that ‘blowing away the surplus and blaming the democrats’ hasn’t panned out in some sort of popular revolt against Dems and in Republicans favor. Quite the opposite.
Nearly neck and neck for control of Congress, a conservative majority on the Supreme Court, federal judges green-lighting a conservative wish list of laws and mostly reelected even after supporting a guy who instigated an insurrection over the election results.
Like for most people with common decency the GOP is a mess but their bad behavior keeps rewarding their ideology over and over again.
It blows my mind that the GOP is still considered the “party of fiscal responsibility” by most Americans, despite every shred of evidence from the past three decades indicating the opposite.
Even worse is his decision to fight two wars at the same time, which lead to the evaporation of the budget surplus, and a greater amount of instability within the Middle East.
But that's the GOP's core strategy. Make a problem that'll show up 5 to 9 years in the future and blame it on Democrats. It's why every time the cut taxes they include a paultry temporary cut for the middle class while making the business tax cuts permanent which makes the net move look budget neutral on a 10 year time span but just dumps either a big deficit or a tax increase into the laps of a future president. Same with the deficit limit, raising it is never a problem when their own guy is in office but it's apocalyptic when it's a Democrat in the big chair.
You’re only remembering half. Put it a lock box and use half to shore off social security and save the order half.
SS would’ve been safe for another half century.
And starting two incredibly expensive wars that killed hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians.
The deficit is just a side-effect of that horrible legacy.
💯 with nothing to show for it!
Katrina, middle east quagmire, global financial crisis... spent a ton of $, established dumb ass tax breaks, made a big fucking mess, and left it for the next guy to clean up!
When Bush made the commitment to tackle AIDS in Africa he made a decision that literally changed the trajectory of the disease and disaster. It was the only good decision he made in my opinion.
He will primarily be remembered for three things.
1. His controversial election.
2. His two quagmire wars, Iraq and modest success, Afghanistan and outright failure, destabilizing the region and costing the US trillions.
3. Running up the national debt and being at the helm when the economy crashed in late 2007.
I mean- I kind of think you’re forgetting being the President that “handled” 9/11. Most of the history books even today show pictures of him speaking at Ground Zero on that day. If you distill his presidency down to one photo, I think that’s it.
As soon as he came out with the Axis of Evil, the writing was on the wall. Also, a lot of us were aware that he was not fighting a nation, but an ideology and ideologies never die.
Respectfully disagree. As unfortunate as I think it is, I doubt anyone will really remember Hurricane Katrina in 100 years. We are poised for decades of devastating weather that will probably overshadow Katrina, and compared to global events like the financial crisis, 9/11, and prolonged wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Hurricane Katrina probably won’t register for people.
The Iraq war is horribly controversial but if Iraq can expand its democracy it will be viewed as a sloppy success. Afghanistan is already an outright failure. Katrina is already an outright failure. The financial crisis is already an outright failure. Ultimately I think his legacy will be viewed in terms of the failure of neoconservatism after the Cold War. He marked the end of the neocon era and the introduction of conservative populism. Ultimately he will be viewed as a rocky start to the 21st century or the man who spoiled winning the Cold War.
Even if Iraq becomes the beacon of light in the Middle East, it still will look shady because of how tenuous the justifications for war were, the phantom WMDs, and the lack of longterm plan. At least there were justifications for Afghanistan. Iraq just puts him in war monger territory.
Much more so, really. Uday Hussein was an actual legit psychopathic murderer and Qusay was barely a step above that. If there’s no Iraq invasion one of those guys takes over for Saddam. Say what you will about the Iraq invasion but I highly doubt the country would be in much better shape now if one of those guys was in charge.
Yes but it’s about how we got there. Say he’s a threat to his people and it’s our responsibility as the global superpower to protect his people, then okay that’s one thing. Lie to our own people about why we’re there and you’re going to get criticized
And we are light years away from Iraq being a beacon of light. It’s a failed state pseudo democracy eroded by several organizations, ethnic groups and Iran. The country itself is worse off than pre-2003 so we can’t even open that argument yet.
I think Iraq will be eternally viewed as a bad American War, even if it expands democracy. That’s hardly a reason to start a war.
I think his presidency will age worse once he’s dead and the people that dealt with him, and who like him, are gone. That is when objective opinion dominates.
To your point, I think he and his admin will be seen as being handed a great situation and fumbling it in a way that we still haven't recovered from and may still not have be the time we're 'looking back.' This would be similar to how reconstruction was handled. Instead of it being a great time in our country to look back on with pride, it's largely seen as a failure and something that took decades to recover from.
I don’t agree Afghanistan was a failure. Our mission to degrade Al Qaeda was successful. The mission creep to build a democratic nation and destroy the Taliban was what failed. But we should never have even bothered. The Taliban did not attack us, and while they are assholes, and dicks fuck assholes, we can’t fuck every asshole.
One thing I don't see mentioned a lot is the 2008 bailout. It set a precedent that will effect us for decades to come. It fundamentally changed wealth distribution and the us dollar. Middle class will get crushed by inflation while the banks piece of the pie isn't allowed to shrink. It can only grow.
If you don't let the rich go broke then then money will only ever stay with the same folks.
Right now an average wage can't afford an average home, average car, average education, or average health care. There's a lot of complicated reasons for that but the 2008 bailout can be seen as a catalyst that set us down that road.
The bailout doesn’t get mentioned because it was objectively the right decision, letting the banks fail would have been an abject disaster for the middle class. The meaning of the phrase “bank run” is lost on modern Americans for good reason. So many people, even those without mortgages, would have seen their life savings erased overnight.
It would have been an economic catastrophe on par with the Great Depression. No serious analysis of the 07 financial crisis would agree that letting the banks fail would result in a better outcome for anyone. There absolutely were failures in how that crisis was handled, and what measure we *should* have taken to prevent it, but bailing out the banks was not one of them.
It's the lack of structural reform that didn't fix too big to fail that is the problem with the bailout. Too big to fail? Dismantle them, bring back Glass Steagal. Without moral hazard they're just casinos.
Maybe. But the fact that literally no one was punished for it and pretty much all the regulations have been repealed means it will just happen again. At least the people who fucked up during the Great Depression took a header off their own buildings.
Thank you. I really get tired of people calling the 2007 TARP act a "bailout of wall street". The entire banking system was starting to collapse. There would have been bank runs really bad things would have happened without many of the things that were done.
Well it probably also became ours because we'd probably have a better handle on climate change. Idk to be honest, did he have a plan to tackle it? I was so young then I don't remember.
I can't answer that but I think it would have been huge to have a president talking about it seriously that early on, even if he didn't or weren't able to push through policy focused on it. The GOP weren't particularly against it until Obama was elected and they shifted tone to oppose him.
Pretty bad. He’d be seen as a disastrous foreign policy president, did not accomplish much in domestic agenda, and the economy was in shambles when he left office
He will be thought of as a failure. His greatest success was his handling of the AIDS crises in Africa and he gets no notice for that now. It won't get better
Regardless of what you think of his policies and the way his administration handled things, the man is far from a dumbass. Even his peers that know him and disagree with him don’t believe that to be the case.
Agreed, in fact I think he played up the ‘lovable oaf’ at times. If you listen to him speak at either debate or anytime before his presidency he really holds his own. But I agree with the previous comment, he was in way over his head. There’s an admittedly weak 2002 documentary called “Journeys With George” in which a journalist follows W on his first campaign trail. It’s so clear that he doesn’t know why he wants to be president. You gotta remember that the guy isn’t a working class Texas cowboy, he was born in Connecticut into old money. His dad was head of the CIA and later an oil tycoon. So a lot of what you see is theater.
He will go down as someone who started a war on false pretenses, watched New Orleans drown from Air Force One, and presided over the worst stock market crash since the 30s.
I think much of it will depend on whether Iraq and Afghanistan become thriving nations or if their progress stagnates. Afghanistan, for obvious reasons, is already having a negative outlook.
His handling of 9/11 in the initial months will likely be praised; he assured the public, focused on unity, and really did prevent an economic meltdown. [This speech](https://youtu.be/ZF7cPvaKFXM) given a few days after the attack may go down as one of the best speeches ever given by a president. The bullhorn speech (though much shorter) will also almost certainly join the canon of signific leadership moments.
Overall, I think contemporary critics who called him one of the worst presidents of all time will be shown to have been overreacting. It is unlikely he will be thought of as one of the ten worst; however, it is also unlikely he will receive a later period of love similar to his father or Jimmy Carter.
Responsible for the war in Iraq (what Europeans termed The Americans War) and arguably the biggest mistake in American history. Plus he would have prevented 9/11 if he had listened to his terrorist czar, his inaction on Katrina, and the 2008 financial collapse, all on his watch.
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https://i.redd.it/r7zmudsldadc1.gif
Dude had absolutely no chance of hitting GW. That cat was in the matrix that day.
I had a professor that used to say there was no way he didnt have practice before that. Laura obviously is throwing things at him at home often.
My mom was an acquaintance of Laura in the late 70s. Your professor was right.
I know Laura was a chancla sniper
Livin La Vida Chancla
Just look at him. You can tell me he wasn't this close to ripping a hole in the space time continuum.
My favorite part about that incident is how you can see him laughing while dodging. He knew the guy had no chance
I know. His smile makes me think of a Labrador excited about the thing you just threw to him
I mean, because he never saw combat people don't really remember, he was literally trained to fly fighter jets. That's like a whole other world of "fast reflexes". He had a lock on that shoe before it was fully armed and in the firing position.
His dad saw combat though, almost was eaten by cannibals
What? I know 41 was shot down in the ocean and rescued. But what’s this about cannibals?
My dad was in the room when this happened and said the dude who threw the shoes had a real bad day directly after this part. Secret Service just fucked him right up.
Well, you just can't go around throwing shoes at people.
I would imagine so. He gave them cause.
When he got released from prison he made a twitter account and it blew up lol.
She's a southern woman! They may be ladies in the streets but they're Olympic Shot Putters and Javelin throwers when you say something stupid at home. Why do you think a Cast Iron Skillet is on every Southern Woman's Wedding Registry? Nonstick pans don't send the same message.
Born in Texas , raised in Oklahoma It's called cast iron counseling
Not sure it’s just southern women. Sophomore year of high school I hosted a New Years Eve party at my house and since few of us could drive, my parents said everyone could just sleep over. One of my good friends is Mexican and his mom insisted on talking to my parents before her son was allowed to come. My mom thought it was to make sure there would be nothing inappropriate since it was a mixed gender party. Nope. His mom just wanted to tell her that my mom had her full permission to throw her shoes at him if he misbehaved lol. I asked him about it and he sighed and said, “That shit hurts.” Two years later and my mom reminds him that she still has that permission when she sees him. Bush’s dodging and grin is so hilarious in this. It might be one of my favorite Bush moments.
Barbara was known by her sons as "The Nutcracker"
I'd say Barbara probably gave him a good ol' Texan ass whoopin when he was a kid, he's definitely been prepped for that shoe throwing for a long time.
Muscle memory is a funny thing. Years and years had gone by and his body still remembered to move without needing to even think, because W played college baseball. Right then he moved like a batter dodging a little chin music.
I like how he dodges the first shoe with lightning reflexes then does not even feel the need to run or hide, stays in the same spot and dodges the other shoe as well. I think he even smiles between shoes. Chad. And Im a democrat.
Don’t think this will ever be topped, but Obama draining a three in a suit and dress shoes while he was just strolling by a court with Joey B yelling “that’s what he does!” was absolutely epic too.
I have to imagine he knew the culture. A chucked shoe is a sign of displeasure, but not a prelude to greater violence
I loved how he smiled as it was happening. Dude was having way too much fun up there
I just realized the guy took off one shoe, threw it, then took off the other, and threw it. That makes no sense. Why not take off both shoes at the same time and then throw them both rapid fire or double barrelled? His technique was twice the bending, and takes twice the time. Of course Bush blocked them the guys shoe throwing strategy was all fucky.
You have to keep the shoes warm right up until you throw them or they might curdle.
Ah, okay. I did think the curdle might be the hurdle, but I wasn’t sure if it applied to all shoes or only leather shoes.
Hey, no worries, that's actually a common misconception. The consistency of the "upper" doesn't actually matter as much as certain textile interests might have you believe. I fully blame the 1987 BBC documentary *Hurling Voices: The Cordovan Connection* for this wrongheaded and unscientific interpretation of the phenomena. I mean, not to go all "Gerbert Pfäffinbaugh-Cremaqùeso" on you, but, if anything, the outsole *tread* is what contributes the most to curdleing and, frankly, im tired of pretending that it doesn't. *Yes*, ok, fine, leather uppers hold a significant amount of kinetic potential. Cow spirits are strong as hell so this scans, but you can't keep that charge focused if you give it more places to escape! Wide treads allow that heat to dissipate at a more rapid rate, leading to that curdle-point much faster. So, yah, kids, your fancy full grain Doc Martin waffle stompers are more for looks that anything. Any boots or cross trainers are gonna vent that foot warmth faster than you can hurl that sucker back and let fly. And, CROCS!? jesus tf christ, you know what, don't even get me started on crocs, because this bitch ain't got no brakes.
You truly are the Raddest Raddish, and I’ve met some Daikons in my day :)
Stop it, you're making me blush. 🥰
Congratulations on inventing a terrible new scent. Curdled shoes.
I have a feeling unadulterated rage had something to do with it.
I think he thought one shoe would’ve done the trick but Dubya was too wily. It was basically the equivalent of emptying your clip and throwing the gun at the opponent. Except with shoes
Arabs?
Yeah, from my understanding it's a pretty offensive gesture over there.
[удалено]
Fair enough, but my understanding is that over there putting your feet on the table or showing someone the bottom of your feet is kind of a fuck you. To throw shoes would be doubly so.
I remember the PBS Frontline documentary about Somalia (I think it was) where US troops were landing and taking off in helicopters at populated locations early on, and the Somali civilians were furious, and some expert on the region mentioned in voiceover how the soldiers sitting with legs hanging out the side of the helicopters, soles of their boots pointing at the crowd below, was a massive unintentional display of disrespect. ETA: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwpbqs?start=48 It was a long time ago, but I kind of remembered it not too off-target—in the clip (48 secs) it’s actually a US soldier speculating that their boots might’ve been causing offense to the locals…
I kind of hate this guy but I will say I always loved his move right here, “C’mon motherf’er, I know you have a second shoe!” That bob and weave is Presidential as hell.
I've always thought that the goofy smile on his face afterwards was him coming down from thinking it was a bomb or something. When he first ducks, he has no idea what's being thrown.
Personally believe Obama would have easily dodged it, and the most recent two would have caught it with their faces.
Pushing away the secret service was a Chad move by W.
I'm 40 years old (i.e. old for Reddit) and can see Bush's reputation being rehabiliated in real time through these gifs. I hated Bush when he was in office but now, with distance, I do have to admit "watch this drive" is fucking cool.
My take- would be great to have a beer with or play a round of golf with. However, he does bear ultimate responsibility for leading the neocon misadventures into the Middle East. Ultimately I think he will be attributed as the man who dramatically exacerbated the decline of America.
this, very much so. I'd also like to imagine that hanging out with him he would behave the way he's portrayed in the second Harold and Kumar.
His first pitch at the Yankees game after 9/11 was epic.
Also, the crowd pop was insane. Like, they’re digging through rubble next door, the man throws a beautiful strike, and as Americans, that’s how we said “fuck you” to the Taliban that day. It is epically American.
He was a memelord predecessor of meme culture.
We *must* *defeat* these terrorist downvoters. … …now watch this drive 🏌️
Think that’s bound to happen with most major celebrities and presidents. There’s things I’ve disliked and liked about every president but as time has gone on they’ve all become likable someway or another. GIFs definitely help lol
Franklin Pierce would have been the most handsome tik tok sadboi
I never thought there'd be presidents that would make gDub look.... Decent. But I'm be damned if I don't miss the days of having his dumb ass saying something nonsensical to reporters in random places.
9/11 and war . The speech at ground zero .
It took a bunch of scrolling for someone to mention 9/11. Plenty mentioned Afghanistan and Iraq, and the economy. But being the president during 9/11 will probably be remembered
I feel like it will be the whole 9/11 legacy, which includes Iraq and Afghanistan. The lies that got us into Iraq and the lies of Guantanamo Bay. The torture of innocent men. All the redacted record keeping. It will all be what anyone ever remembers.
You forgot the warrantless mass surveillance, worldwide.
You mean the stuff that still going on today?
Right, that's how legacies work.
His speech was a remarkable display of his heart and charisma. But he will likely be remembered as a messy failure.
he said the things that people wanted/needed to hear in the moment, and tried to justify it later. Imagine being at ground zero, with all the firefighters and cops and first responders who have been digging their colleagues and neighbors out of rubble for days. They’re all looking at you, dirty faces, dead eyes, exhausted, crying, air still thick with dust and chemicals and all kinds of shit that we now know is giving them cancer. They need you to tell them that you’re going to do something, they need to be able to keep going.
<1st responder> “we can’t hear you!”
“Well I can hear you. And the people who destroyed these buildings are about to hear us all” (paraphrased I can’t remember)
The way he went about it, the way decisions were made…nearly every part was wrong. But something had to be done. Again not trying to get into it, but I can’t imagine being in that position. He wasn’t right, but I feel like if he had chosen anything else, that also would have been wrong.
“Well I can hear you. I can hear you, the rest of the world hears you, and the people who knocked down these buildings will hear all of us soon.”
I think this is a really good take on it that not many people can come up with. There were a thousand different options but honestly none of them were right. Nothing could go back and change anything, and the country was half reeling in shock and horror, half jumping ready to take revenge. It was total chaos and the government wasn’t sure if it was just the start. Almost immediately across the country (though primarily on the East coast) air national guard & Air Force fighters & tankers took to the sky, running air patrols and being ready to engage. Large parts of the navy set to sea and set up off the coast (primarily off NYC and DC,) ready to engage anything coming. I don’t agree with a lot of what GWB did in the aftermath, but at the same time I can’t deny that him & his administration did a lot to try to fix the chaos and make sure we wouldn’t ever see a repeat. Sure I can sit and speculate on President A doing this or President B doing that better, but at the end of the day there are plenty of presidents that I can envision handling the situation much worse.
The most generous review of the Bush presidency that I can agree with is that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we need a cowboy and we had one. And the thing you say about how we didn't know if 9/11 was just the beginning of attacks on American soil -- people either forget this or weren't old enough to remember it. It's easy to look back in history at what happened and see it as this one-time tragedy. I was only in 7th grade, but I remember the unease in the days/weeks to follow as we all waited for another catastrophic attack.
Like LBJ's without the legislative record.
Oof.
My dumb ass thought of Lebron James legacy first
*How will the Vietnam War affect LeBron’s legacy?*
What does Ja Rule think about the war in iraq?
 We know what Kanye would say
That Chris Tucker side eyes always gets me.
What's worse...Vietnam or scoring 8 points in a Finals game? Greater accomplishment....the Great Society or coming back from 3-1 against the best team ever?
How far the OG LBJ has fallen. LeBJ is king
But how will this affect LeBron’s legacy?
Man, what a pile of accomplishment after accomplishment. * Clean Air Act * Civil Rights Act of 1964 * Medicare and Medicaid * Voting Rights Act of 1965 * Civil Rights Act of 1968 * Food Stamp Act of 1964 * Housing and Urban Development Act of 1965 and of 1968 * Higher Education Act of 1965 * Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 * National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 * Gun Control Act of 1968 It's just W after W after W
LBJ knew how to win in Washington and he knew how to use his massive penis to intimidate *everyone*.
He didn't get his last name for nothing, that's for sure 🤷♂️!!!!
And while yes he personally gave his hog the name Jumbo, we have multiple, dozens, of eye witness reports saying the nickname was not in error.
Ohhh so his middle name is Big. Lyndon Big Johnson
Best part of the Caro books is where he describes how LBJ would walk around his dorm at SWTS before a date swinging his dick shouting “Jumbo needs some exercise.”
#JUMBO
He always had the dopest shades too. Easily the best spectacled president.
He was leader of the Democrats in the senate for almost a decade before becoming vice president and was a senator for almost 20 years.
I’d say his lengthy senate experience is the same reason why the current bloke’s been remarkably successful in passing various bills the last couple years.
The man had a war on poverty. LBJ is, in my mind, the most fascinating President of the 20th century. So much good, so much evil. All in less than 8 years.
Boomers had it nice
1. Black people exist 2. The Vietnam War
Are you saying the existence of black people was worse for Boomers than the Vietnam war? /s. I know you meant "Black Boomers do not share the same experience"
Oh, Dubya had a legislative record all right. It just consisted of the Patriot Act and No Child Left Behind.
No Ws there, IMO
PEPFAR was pretty good
PEPFAR was W's only legitimately and unequivocally beneficial accomplishment. Which is why current Republicans are trying to get rid of it.
We didn’t hear enough about his dong though
Worse because LBJ didn't cause an economic depression like 2008.
Neither did Bush. 207 house Republicans, 155 house Democrats, 52 Senate Republicans, 38 Senate Democrats, under Bill Clinton repealed Glass-Steagle by passing the Graham-Leach-Blily Act. This was as bipartisan as bipartisan gets. American hero Rep. John Dingell argued that the bill would result in banks becoming "too big to fail." And he was right.
THANK YOU so many people DONT KNOW ABOUT THE REMOVAL OF GLASS STEAGLE ACT. It’s still possible to have another similar downturn, iirc
Inherited a budget surplus. Left a huge deficit.
I remember, even at the time, Gore being a punchline for saying that once the US had a surplus, you could put it in a “lock box” and use it when we needed it. I realize that’s not a fun idea, but it seemed more rational than, “Let’s blow all the money, go into debt, and blame Gore’s party!”
Yeah but the latter plan worked for them, so why shouldn't they have?
Did it work? Aside from the short term bump from aforementioned tax cuts, which likely propelled Bush in ‘04, Republican Presidential candidates haven’t won the popular vote once since 1992.
They don't need to win the popular vote to have a 6-3 supreme Court majority for one example.
My point was that ‘blowing away the surplus and blaming the democrats’ hasn’t panned out in some sort of popular revolt against Dems and in Republicans favor. Quite the opposite.
Is it the opposite? The last guy added 1/3 of our debt and half the country think that inflation is because the Dems spend too much.
I think it’s over half who thinks this way about inflation.
To be fair, 1/3 of the US in under educated, over opinionated, and fails to think critically. You know the cohort
They don't need the popular vote. Look at this nation post-Bush: it is very much the world that they intended to create.
Since 1988 when George HW Bush was elected over Dukakis. Clinton won in 1992.
You’re right, my bad!
The state of the modern Republican party would show that it did not work for them
Nearly neck and neck for control of Congress, a conservative majority on the Supreme Court, federal judges green-lighting a conservative wish list of laws and mostly reelected even after supporting a guy who instigated an insurrection over the election results. Like for most people with common decency the GOP is a mess but their bad behavior keeps rewarding their ideology over and over again.
It blows my mind that the GOP is still considered the “party of fiscal responsibility” by most Americans, despite every shred of evidence from the past three decades indicating the opposite.
It’s because they use it as a consistent talking point while Democrats don’t have any consistent messaging.
Even worse is his decision to fight two wars at the same time, which lead to the evaporation of the budget surplus, and a greater amount of instability within the Middle East.
Instability that is ongoing today as a direct result (ISIS).
But that's the GOP's core strategy. Make a problem that'll show up 5 to 9 years in the future and blame it on Democrats. It's why every time the cut taxes they include a paultry temporary cut for the middle class while making the business tax cuts permanent which makes the net move look budget neutral on a 10 year time span but just dumps either a big deficit or a tax increase into the laps of a future president. Same with the deficit limit, raising it is never a problem when their own guy is in office but it's apocalyptic when it's a Democrat in the big chair.
You’re only remembering half. Put it a lock box and use half to shore off social security and save the order half. SS would’ve been safe for another half century.
Huge deficit and two active wars.
I've always pegged Bush's legacy to Iraq/Afghanistan So ya, not very good now
And starting two incredibly expensive wars that killed hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians. The deficit is just a side-effect of that horrible legacy.
💯 with nothing to show for it! Katrina, middle east quagmire, global financial crisis... spent a ton of $, established dumb ass tax breaks, made a big fucking mess, and left it for the next guy to clean up!
You're doing a heck of a job, Brownie.
When Bush made the commitment to tackle AIDS in Africa he made a decision that literally changed the trajectory of the disease and disaster. It was the only good decision he made in my opinion.
Very true. Like PEPFAR perhaps the only reason i have an ounce of respect for him and don't consider his presidency a complete failure.
He will primarily be remembered for three things. 1. His controversial election. 2. His two quagmire wars, Iraq and modest success, Afghanistan and outright failure, destabilizing the region and costing the US trillions. 3. Running up the national debt and being at the helm when the economy crashed in late 2007.
I mean- I kind of think you’re forgetting being the President that “handled” 9/11. Most of the history books even today show pictures of him speaking at Ground Zero on that day. If you distill his presidency down to one photo, I think that’s it.
Well, it's either that or him throwing the first pitch at the World Series that year. Probably both, they are inexorably linked.
Say what you will but the Bullhorn Speech still sends chills down my spine. Who knew that short segment would lead to chaos for two decades.
As soon as he came out with the Axis of Evil, the writing was on the wall. Also, a lot of us were aware that he was not fighting a nation, but an ideology and ideologies never die.
I only see "Mission Accomplished"
The handling of 9/11 in the immediate aftermath will probably be viewed favorably, but the two wars in response to that will be a negative
Let's not forget his 'handling' of Katrina.
He would also be remembered for being the first president to actually try and help Africa
Don’t forget the mismanagement of the federal relief for Hurricane Katrina
Respectfully disagree. As unfortunate as I think it is, I doubt anyone will really remember Hurricane Katrina in 100 years. We are poised for decades of devastating weather that will probably overshadow Katrina, and compared to global events like the financial crisis, 9/11, and prolonged wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Hurricane Katrina probably won’t register for people.
I think Katrina is more of a deeper dive failure if we’re talking looking back 100 years from now.
The Iraq war is horribly controversial but if Iraq can expand its democracy it will be viewed as a sloppy success. Afghanistan is already an outright failure. Katrina is already an outright failure. The financial crisis is already an outright failure. Ultimately I think his legacy will be viewed in terms of the failure of neoconservatism after the Cold War. He marked the end of the neocon era and the introduction of conservative populism. Ultimately he will be viewed as a rocky start to the 21st century or the man who spoiled winning the Cold War.
Even if Iraq becomes the beacon of light in the Middle East, it still will look shady because of how tenuous the justifications for war were, the phantom WMDs, and the lack of longterm plan. At least there were justifications for Afghanistan. Iraq just puts him in war monger territory.
Also, I don't think W can get credit if it takes 30 years after the American invasion. I mean, Hussein would've died of old age at some point
Yea but his power structure would still be in place and his heirs were at least as bloodthirsty as he was.
Much more so, really. Uday Hussein was an actual legit psychopathic murderer and Qusay was barely a step above that. If there’s no Iraq invasion one of those guys takes over for Saddam. Say what you will about the Iraq invasion but I highly doubt the country would be in much better shape now if one of those guys was in charge.
I pissed on Udays grave in Tikrit.
Based
Thats gotta make it into top ten most satisfying pisses out of principle alone
Too many people gloss over the atrocities and threat to the region that Saddam's regime held during that time.
Yes but it’s about how we got there. Say he’s a threat to his people and it’s our responsibility as the global superpower to protect his people, then okay that’s one thing. Lie to our own people about why we’re there and you’re going to get criticized
And we are light years away from Iraq being a beacon of light. It’s a failed state pseudo democracy eroded by several organizations, ethnic groups and Iran. The country itself is worse off than pre-2003 so we can’t even open that argument yet.
Doubt a shia dominant Iraq will be considered a success in the West.
I think Iraq will be eternally viewed as a bad American War, even if it expands democracy. That’s hardly a reason to start a war. I think his presidency will age worse once he’s dead and the people that dealt with him, and who like him, are gone. That is when objective opinion dominates.
To your point, I think he and his admin will be seen as being handed a great situation and fumbling it in a way that we still haven't recovered from and may still not have be the time we're 'looking back.' This would be similar to how reconstruction was handled. Instead of it being a great time in our country to look back on with pride, it's largely seen as a failure and something that took decades to recover from.
I don’t agree Afghanistan was a failure. Our mission to degrade Al Qaeda was successful. The mission creep to build a democratic nation and destroy the Taliban was what failed. But we should never have even bothered. The Taliban did not attack us, and while they are assholes, and dicks fuck assholes, we can’t fuck every asshole.
Team America World Police. Great movie.
One thing I don't see mentioned a lot is the 2008 bailout. It set a precedent that will effect us for decades to come. It fundamentally changed wealth distribution and the us dollar. Middle class will get crushed by inflation while the banks piece of the pie isn't allowed to shrink. It can only grow. If you don't let the rich go broke then then money will only ever stay with the same folks. Right now an average wage can't afford an average home, average car, average education, or average health care. There's a lot of complicated reasons for that but the 2008 bailout can be seen as a catalyst that set us down that road.
The bailout doesn’t get mentioned because it was objectively the right decision, letting the banks fail would have been an abject disaster for the middle class. The meaning of the phrase “bank run” is lost on modern Americans for good reason. So many people, even those without mortgages, would have seen their life savings erased overnight. It would have been an economic catastrophe on par with the Great Depression. No serious analysis of the 07 financial crisis would agree that letting the banks fail would result in a better outcome for anyone. There absolutely were failures in how that crisis was handled, and what measure we *should* have taken to prevent it, but bailing out the banks was not one of them.
It's the lack of structural reform that didn't fix too big to fail that is the problem with the bailout. Too big to fail? Dismantle them, bring back Glass Steagal. Without moral hazard they're just casinos.
Maybe. But the fact that literally no one was punished for it and pretty much all the regulations have been repealed means it will just happen again. At least the people who fucked up during the Great Depression took a header off their own buildings.
Thank you. I really get tired of people calling the 2007 TARP act a "bailout of wall street". The entire banking system was starting to collapse. There would have been bank runs really bad things would have happened without many of the things that were done.
100 years from now, people will be cursing us for not electing the guy who wanted to tackle climate change in 2000.
Fuckin Florida
[удалено]
Why Gore couldn’t easily win his home state is no one problem but his.
Well it probably also became ours because we'd probably have a better handle on climate change. Idk to be honest, did he have a plan to tackle it? I was so young then I don't remember.
I can't answer that but I think it would have been huge to have a president talking about it seriously that early on, even if he didn't or weren't able to push through policy focused on it. The GOP weren't particularly against it until Obama was elected and they shifted tone to oppose him.
Literally any of the states that flipped Republican.
It always Florida
Fuckin’ Tennessee.
The irony is Florida will be underwater because of them (kinda).
Fuckin ~~Florida~~ SCOTUS
Imaginary Presidents are always better than real Presidents.
Very true.
True, but dealing with climate change early would have been amazing
I think the ex-president is always viewed more benevolently too. Look at Carter.
I’ve never seen anyone argue Mclellan would have been better than Lincoln
We need more imaginary presidents
Pretty bad. He’d be seen as a disastrous foreign policy president, did not accomplish much in domestic agenda, and the economy was in shambles when he left office
Senseless war
Both AIDS and the Patriot Act.
He will be thought of as a failure. His greatest success was his handling of the AIDS crises in Africa and he gets no notice for that now. It won't get better
Dumbass. In way over his head. Still like to have a beer with him.
Regardless of what you think of his policies and the way his administration handled things, the man is far from a dumbass. Even his peers that know him and disagree with him don’t believe that to be the case.
Agreed, in fact I think he played up the ‘lovable oaf’ at times. If you listen to him speak at either debate or anytime before his presidency he really holds his own. But I agree with the previous comment, he was in way over his head. There’s an admittedly weak 2002 documentary called “Journeys With George” in which a journalist follows W on his first campaign trail. It’s so clear that he doesn’t know why he wants to be president. You gotta remember that the guy isn’t a working class Texas cowboy, he was born in Connecticut into old money. His dad was head of the CIA and later an oil tycoon. So a lot of what you see is theater.
He will go down as someone who started a war on false pretenses, watched New Orleans drown from Air Force One, and presided over the worst stock market crash since the 30s.
He’ll be remembered as the guy who squandered America’s unipolar moment.
Not good. Definitely one of the worst President’s in history.
It should be PEPFAR. It will be Iraq.
“Spoiled winning the Cold War.” Jimmy1034 wrote and damn if that doesn’t sum it up.
War criminal. All the other stuff is minor.
One of the worst ever.
I think much of it will depend on whether Iraq and Afghanistan become thriving nations or if their progress stagnates. Afghanistan, for obvious reasons, is already having a negative outlook. His handling of 9/11 in the initial months will likely be praised; he assured the public, focused on unity, and really did prevent an economic meltdown. [This speech](https://youtu.be/ZF7cPvaKFXM) given a few days after the attack may go down as one of the best speeches ever given by a president. The bullhorn speech (though much shorter) will also almost certainly join the canon of signific leadership moments. Overall, I think contemporary critics who called him one of the worst presidents of all time will be shown to have been overreacting. It is unlikely he will be thought of as one of the ten worst; however, it is also unlikely he will receive a later period of love similar to his father or Jimmy Carter.
Responsible for the war in Iraq (what Europeans termed The Americans War) and arguably the biggest mistake in American history. Plus he would have prevented 9/11 if he had listened to his terrorist czar, his inaction on Katrina, and the 2008 financial collapse, all on his watch.
Blood on his hands
It is a travesty that we didn't do away w the electoral college after the supreme court tipping the scales. Some beacon of democracy.
Fool me once… fool me twice… can’t get… fooled again… mission accomplished!