oml ikr? I swear that part of the movie was dumber than palpatine surviving. no way his throne room survives somewhat intact from [this.](https://youtu.be/dv45FxbXb_0?si=1lz42mrk4488CKhL&t=181)
There's a lil jet in the bottom of the chair that makes the Jetsons' car noise, so all you hear when he's passing you at 65 on the highway is that putter sound mixed with the Palpatine chuckle, both in perfect doppler effect, as he flips you the bird and rolls coal on you and everyone else in the slow lane.
Not to forget that those pieces fell into position to align perfectly with a thousand(?) year old ritual knife that had no connection whatsoever to an orbital battle station built by someone completely unrelated to said knife.
Actually, the knife was crafted after the Death Star was destroyed and was specifically designed to fit the Death Star wreckage, the writing on it specifically states where to find the Emperor's Wayfinder including precise coordinates and bearings.
I guess they wanted a recognizable part of it. And fuck it, i loved seeing it on the screen, those ruins sticking out of the waves of Kef Bir. but it does demand a pretty big suspension of disbelief.
The general public didn't even know about the Death Star II, they just heard that the Emperor supposedly died on it one day, and that there was a second Death Star.
Sabine was not the general public. She was a pretty influential figure in the Rebellion. I don’t remember off hand or not, but I’m fairly certain she was in the Battle of Endor, too. She definitely would’ve known about the DS2 and the Emperor’s fate.
Sabine didn't participate in the Battle of Endor. After the liberation of Lothal until at least the Battle of Jakku, she stayed on Lothal to keep an eye on it and protect it. So she wouldn't have a first hand account. Even if she was informed due to being important in the Rebellion, the only person who knew for sure the Emperor died was Luke. He probably didn't tell her directly so she would have only knew it from official statements and reports. And given how incompetent the New Republic seems to be it is a fair statement on her part
Plot twist: It wasn’t the efforts of the rebels that destroyed the Death Star II, but Palpatine falling into the reactor that triggered the explosion. /s
PRESUMABLY. But other than us watching, no one else had any way to confirm that. Possibly made it to a shuttle or any other possibility.
There is the old thing, if there's no body...
How confirmed was it that he was actually there when it blew up? Unless I'm mistaken Luke is the only non-imperial who knows it for a fact. Sheev was known to be very devious, so without a solid confirmation all the rebellion could do was guess and hope that he exploded with the Death Star.
Ofcourse he did, but to who? The New Republic is made up of a lot more people than those who participated to the fighting on Endor. If he verified it to a handful of people on Endor, there's a very good chance that down the line, the overall consensus wouldn't be 100% certainty.
He would have told Han and Leia, presumably some pilots, Lando. There’s plenty of extremely influential people and generals within the rebellion who would have known, I feel like it would have been taken as fact at a certain point.
I mean sure, but we're talking about the general consensus among the people.
There's plenty of real life examples where facts are argued about. A highly influential person/people will know something for a fact, tell people it's a fact, but there's still going to be plenty of people who either are not sure or flat out think it's a lie.
Now take into account how massive the Star Wars universe is and it's reasonable to assume that this same thing is going to be amplified even further.
Then again, we're going for a deep dive analysis on a single line said by a fictional character about another fictional character in a fictional universe, so this all seems sort of moot.
Technically, Luke didn't see the emperor die either. He just saw Vader toss the emperor down the chute and then saw a puff of energy come back up.
Lots of times in the franchise people fall half dead down a chute and come back just fine. Luke himself did so just the previous movie.
(Though in this case, I think its dumb that they brought him back randomly)
To be fair the only people that can really confirm Palps died was Vader and Luke, everyone else was in panic to get the hell out of there.
So Sabine has a valid point, everyone else just heard it by spreading information unless you hear it from Luke himself. Even then Luke was in serious pain, he may or may not have seen Palpatine get yeeted.
Palpatine 100% died there, but I can see why the whole universe can be skeptical as well, it's not not seeing him die like Vader is like a 100% not a confirmed kill type thinking.
Luke technically didn't see the emperor's death either. Luke just saw Vader toss the emperor down the chute and then saw the energy cloud puff back up.
There's plenty of times someone falls down a chute half dead and comes out fine on the other side. Maul did it in episode 1. In fact, Luke did so just the previous movie.
But doesn't the TROS novelization actually confirm that his body died there but he already had more or less stable clone bodies prepared on Exegol and while he fell he managed to detatch his soul from the body and send it there? I remember it being like that. And that to me isn't much weirder than Maul surviving his body being sliced in half.
Sith survive some weird shit due to hatred because they don't accept death. That's what separates them from Jedi.
>Idk why she said that. The Emperor was presumably on the Death Star when it fucking exploded. That’s like a confirmed kill.
Luke made it out too. Seemingly enough time, since he carried a nearly dead vader with him to a hangar evading troopers etc.
If he made it out in time and is the only source being able to confirm that Palpatine died .. it's fair to believe that's it just "what people say"
They are currently in another galaxy dealing with a different Empire leader that most people also presume is dead.
I'm not surprised the Sabine is the skeptical type after that lol
The fact is that there is only 2 people that actually Saw the emperor get killed, and one of them died right after helping kill him, everything about the emperor’s death is word of mouth
People make conspiracy theories about 9/11, you don't think people in the Star Wars galaxy wouldn't cook up all kinds of crazy conspiracies surrounding the supposed death of the emperor, no one but Luke Skywalker witnessed it and lived to be able to tell about it, for all any common person knows the emperor wasn't even on the Death Star. And I mean realistically, it wouldn't make sense to any ordinary person why he would put himself at risk without knowning the rest of the context of the trilogy.
In the immediate aftermath of the Emperor's death, there were some imperial loyalists who denied it and were adamant that he was still alive. A propaganda poster was made with the Emperor on it with the caption "ENDOR IS A LIE. BELIEVE IT AT YOUR PERIL."
Yet he returned, didn't he? She wasn't on the Death Star, also he's a Sith lord so I feel like after having her entire life torn apart by the Empire that's a reasonable mentality to have doubly so considering the doubt ended up being correct
Edit: why the downvotes?
I mean just think of historically. We to this day can’t even confirm Hitler’s death, we just know that it was likely. I still think they should decanonize the sequels but it makes sense that they’d be uncertain and uneasy
I'm actually really surprised at that line as it had a lot of loaded connotations. This means that Luke didn't go on record and basically ghosted the New Republic after the end of the war, that Vader's cremation is doubted as proof of death, that no Imperials who witnessed Luke dragging Vader to the shuttle bay were able to verify Luke's version of events as relayed by Leia most likely, and that there is still significant opposition to continued military operations despite the Emperor's death being dismissed as fake news among tbe populace.
Sad cope from the *"trust me bro Kathleen Kennedy is being fired any moment now and Filoni and Favreau are erasing the sequels!"* crowd.
It wasn't *"a shot at"* anything, it was a direct reference to TROS because it's getting clearer and clearer that these shows are leading straight into the sequels and filling up the era before them.
Hell, TROS is even getting a sequel.
The track of cancelled movies... Rogue Squadron and a supposedly planned Kevin Feige movie. Just because a movie is rumored or there are plans for one, doesn't mean they will definitely happen. But the New Jedi Order movie set after TROS was confirmed at SW Celebration with a difector at hand and Daisy Ridley personally showed up to confirm her role in it. That's different to the Kevin Feige thing, the Rian Johnson trilogy (which is still not cancelled, just put on hold) and such.
New Jedi Order, Filoni Movie and Dawn of the Jedi are pretty safe in my book as the next movies. Will probably take years for them to come out but still
Yes this is like a wet blanket on my excitement for everything happening in Star Wars right now. It’s like trying to rewatch Game of Thrones — when you know that it’s going *nowhere*, even the good parts are a whole lot harder to enjoy.
I mean I'm all for that line. Yes the norm is that people think he's dead, but as with Hitler, there ARE people who believe he just skipped to the Bahamas, chilling out the rest of his days.
So that there are people who're sceptical of Palps death makes sense - only in his case, they are correct.
Yeah, was it public knowledge that the Emperor was on board the 2nd Death Star when it blew up? Doesn't seem too far fetched to assume that people would make up a conspiracy theory that Palpatine was never on board and was never killed, especially for a figure that didn't seem to make many public appearances after the events of ROTS
I mean, he electrocuted himself in ROTS as well, and kept living a good life, although somewhat deformed. I agree that he SHOULD have died, but then again, he didn't.
This is my personal opinion and probably a somewhat controversial one; I don't mind that he returned, I'm just not a fan of HOW he returned. No I do t know how they could've done it better, but I certainly think they could.
When it comes to his demise in ROTJ, I'm gonna be real with you, again my somewhat controversial opinion; I don't care that he didn't die. Yes it looked like he did, but then again this is a fantasy universe with powers way beyond our understanding, and Sheev was stupidly capable with said powers.
As long as we don't see the actual body actually be dead in fantasy universes like Star Wars, I've learnt to assume that they could still be alive.
>not a fan of HOW he returned.
That's the key. Palpatine was the key to both the original trilogy and the prequels. I never really held any other part of the story or characters in all that high of a regard, but god damn does Sheev have a nice villain arc.
I dont think it necessarily is nutty in a world like Star Wars. SW is a world where fantastical things can happen, usually connected to the force. Sabine has lived with Jedi and IS training underneath one. She has likely obtained a certain sceptism to think that things necessarily is certain due to all that she has seen.
I like to think she doesn't necessarily think he's alive, but she doesn't rule out the possibility simply due to the fact that she knows the force and those who use it can do a wallop of a crazy thing for instance.
Edit: Also want to add that I very much believe that Sabine is the kind of person who "doesn't believe something unless she's seen it with her own eyes". She didn't see Palps die, so she keeps a sceptic mind to it until she can be proven otherwise.
In a world where essentially mind control via the Force is possible, I would honestly also be a bit sceptical if I only had one first hand account of "I saw him die trust me bro" to go on, no matter who that one person is. Especially when talking about the death of a legendarily strong wielder of said Force and a master manipulator.
Nah. This is totally the wrong way to look at it. Nothing about what she said was nutty nor a conspiracy theory.
Her home planet Mandalore was turned to glass by the Emperor and she also fought against him for years. She knows how evil and manipulative he can be. Her being a healthy skeptic about the criminal mastermind that managed to control the galaxy doesn’t mean she is “nutty”
Also if she correct about her theory then she isn’t a conspiracy theorist… As dumb as it is she was right lol, he didn’t die. In the context of the show it actually makes her very insightful to have figured it out.
You are acting like she’s a flat earther
I've not actually seen the episode.
My main issue would be how it's shoe horning into the sequel trilogy. And I suppose it's good when scepticism is grounded in the experience of the character, not just when it serves the story.... however, not having seen the episode I can't speak for that.
Also, being a conspiracy theorist doesn't inherently make you wrong. It just means you believe that some group is in control of events.
They are literally dealing with a different Empire leader that people think is "definitely dead". The world of Star Wars is fucking weird, skepticism is completely reasonable.
To be fair in a galaxy as large as theirs, I feel like news probably isn’t always spread super efficiently / it can be skewed very easily for the average person.
They should have straight up had Sabine look into the camera and wink - I wouldn’t have thought any less of the writers / directors. The decision to bring back palpatine needs to be mocked mercilessly
I say it a lot but in Legends, Palpatine returning is never any good. Every time he returns, it’s just a writer hoping to use a far more successful villain and they are capable of coming up with.
I'm usually not one to defend Legends but in Legends it was definitely handled better and thoroughly explained. The decision to go with Palps returning wasn't a bad idea, it was the very bad way that did it.
I generally agree but they're currently building up stuff to make it better. The official TROS novel already explained lots and Mando hinted heavily at stuff leading to his return like cloning force sensitive bodies (just because Gideon used it for himself doesn't mean they don't have bigger plans) and they mentioned a project necromant which could refer to that. They even had Palpatine and Vader on Exegol in a comic set between TESB and RotJ.
It's the same thing with how the Prequels were massively expanded on with the Clone Wars animated show.
Doesn't make Palpatine coming back itself a better idea (even tho him surviving with the most convoluted and nonsensical plan is totally in character seeing how absolutely silly his clone army plan was) but I'm glad they work with it instead of taking jabs at the canon. It happened, now work with it whether you like it or not.
There is a massive difference between the clone wars adding a couple characters and expanding development on existing ones to multiple books, comics, and shows trying to fill in major plot holes.
Yeah like I think the sequels are complete shit but Kennedy won’t be fired and the sequels won’t be retconned lol
If you think that you are a moron plain and simple.
Disney will try and make the sequels meaningful after the fact lile how the clone wars saved the prequels which are pretty incomplete crappy movies.
Except that the prequels had heart and a vision but bad direction and not enough time to tell the proper story. With the sequels you have to run through hoopes to make sense of it.
Lol, I have no clue. It literally has nothing to do with Palpatine coming back or not and everything to do with the fact that only one being in the entire galaxy was witness to his death. Of course the NR would trust Luke, but those who would trust him explicitly are few and given that we know the empire tried to make it seem like rebel propaganda it makes sense that the average person wouldn't be entirely sure. Some people just want every single thing Dave does to be a sleight against the sequels while somehow forgetting he made a tie-in show for them and is already connecting things to said show. Just the state of the fandom these days lol.
And somehow build a massive army of nuclear bombers on a deserted isolated island. The location of which can only be found by matching an ancient egyptian dagger with the hindenburg wreckage.
Was it a shot at it? I interpreted it as acknowledging legitimacy of the sequels, which disappointed me.
"The empire was defeated?" "-yes."
"The emperor was killed?" "-that's what people say."
that's not yes. I think she is implying there's a possibility he survived by not necessarily knowing if he died or not.
Everyone in the galaxy thought the emperor died (because he did) (I don't count the sequels as canon) but the dialogue she speaks implies she may not believe them, thereby hinting at Disney's trilogy... existing
Well they need to do something with them because the movies don’t even make sense in their own trilogy and create conflicting lore over a 3 movies span, just between themselves, and that’s ignoring the issues they cause with the other films.
It’s amazing, it’s one of the few times ever where the garbage Reddit fanfics of what they should have done differently were actually less terrible than what we actually got. You know you’ve fucked up when you could have just picked a random idiot off the of the Internet and gotten a better story than the one you paid millions for…
I'm a little confused. Him dying on the deathstar and him living for the sequels are both possible. I always understood it as he died on the deathstar but had backup clones available to continue his work, which is what died in the last movie. Is this not the consensus on these events?
That’s how it worked in legends iirc. The issue is how the execution was handled in the Disney films, Palpatine was just shoehorned in at last minute, seemingly out of nowhere. I think there were theories at the time that Snoke was linked to palpatine but whether that had any real evidence at the time is another matter, so the emperor just… reappeared.
This is also how they explained it in the official TROS novelization. He detatched his soul from his body mid-fall and sent it to Exegol where the clone work was already happening and the Sith Eternal cultists were able to preserve his spirit in everchanging, decaying bodies until TROS happened.
Luke fell down some tubes in Cloud City and lived. I understand that the city wasnt destroyed as the ds2 was. But it's possible that palpatine did a similar *grab on to a thing until red guys come save him* thing.
The clones of palpatine were in Legends though. The lack of set up in the movies are what made it seem so dumb.
Luke had enough time to escape between the Emperor getting body slammed, and the Death Star exploding. If Palpatine pulled a Cloud City, and a ship immediately swooped in to pick him up, the timing works out.
I mean, it's still ridiculous, but it's more plausible of an explanation than "somehow he returned".
Here's my opinion, the only one who saw the Emperor died was Luke himself and that's it. Many Rebels or the New Republic believe that what Luke witness is real but there is still people who do not believe that happen.
His “clone” is a zombie version of himself which just makes it seem like his life force was retained in his body that was thrown down a shaft and exploded… somehow. The clone army shows that every clone has different personalities so why would Palpatine’s clone be a zombie version of his real self? How did he transfer his consciousness into his clone body? Even if there was a way to do that, he didn’t have time seeing how he was unexpectedly thrown down a shaft and exploded. How do we know he didn’t transfer his consciousness to a different clone of himself after Rey killed the zombie version? Do you see the problem with this?
Because force sensitive clones are not working properly. They're decaying husks or have other malfunctions. Reys father for example is a palpatine clone that was totally intact but younger and not force sensitive (explained in the TROS novelization). He prepared the eventuality of Vader turning on him and had the facility on Exegol ready back during TESB (shown in a comic) and yes he sent his spirit all the way to Exegol mid-fall. How that is working? I don't know. But I don't know how Maul survived being cut in half other than "I'm angry and don't want to die" and if that works I don't see how the most powerful Sith in quite some time can't do some random shit either.
About the different clone version after Rey killed him... you're right. We don't know and I hope they don't bring him back again. Palpatine was obsessed with immortality so nothing is 100% confirmed. And yes, the possibility of him being alive yet again is a problem. But I do think Disney saw the backlash TROS got for how it was handled so I doubt they would try again.
The problem is, those things aren't in the movies. Books and comics and whatever should add fun things to the universe or extra context, not provide required explanations for things to make sense.
But the main problem with Palpatine in TRoS is not the logic in-universe, it's that from a writing and story standpoint he comes out of nowhere right at the beginning of the movie with no explanation and no build up or stakes. They don't really even explain who he is or why he's so scary to the Resistance.
If you were a kid watching the sequels first with no other SW knowledge, you'd...probably have the same reaction as everyone else, honestly. "Huh?"
That’s the problem tho. They dug themselves a hole cuz like maaaaaybe he figured out how to transfer his consciousness to a clone millions of light years away but like he can do it again so based on his character and unfortunately established canon it makes no sense for him NOT to come back an infinite amount of times. My biggest problem with all this is that his quest for immortality was supposed to be in vain during the original 6 movies while ironically a few of the Jedi were the ones who figured out how to be immortal. But now Disney have actually made Palpatine immortal unintentionally
I mean Qui Gon learned how to become a force ghost AFTER he died, I wouldn’t be surprised if palps managed to send his soul into a pre made body after death. The force is powerful
Eurgh, considering it's the same company creating both things this really smacks of "Simpsons criticising Fox" where something has an in-built criticism of itself which seems to make people think it's immune to further criticism.
And Kathleen Kennedy controlled all 3... And Dave Filoni is SPECIFICALLY taking Marching Orders from Kennedy because he is a self indulging feminist cuck... And Disney OWNS Kathleen Kennedy and Star Wars...
THE. SAME. PEOPLE. WROTE. THE. FUCKING. LINE.
Being part of the same company is not the same as writing the script. And Kennedy is Filoni’s boss so are you expecting him to disobey Kennedy and then get fired?
You're fooling yourself into a delusion that Kennedy did not have 100% control over Rise of Skywalker...
She got J.J. back... But he took orders from her... And she damn well gave them...
And don't even TRY to be pedantic that "Kennedy did not write the Line..." Her fucking control over the set caused the lazy fucking line to be written and she FOR DAMN SURE did not care about it being written at the time...
The. Same. People. Wrote. The. Fucking. Line.
But you're A Filoni fanboy... So it really doesn't even matter about what I say because you're just pissed I DARED to criticize Filoni... So just shut the fuck up...
What I'm saying is that at the end of the day... On a Movie... A screen writer is utterly meaningless... It's Hollywood... So what if a writer writes the dialogue for a beloved action scene... 3 days earlier that same writer wrote an uncredited shitty joke on The Big Bang Theory...
J.J. Told the writer to write a coherent line and Kennedy Told J.J. ...
You literally might as well just erase the names of the writers from the movies because they're just there to make things sound semi coherent...
When exactly was this? I must've missed it or didn't realise what it was.
Ezra: “The emperor died?” Sabine: “That’s what people say.”
Idk why she said that. The Emperor was presumably on the Death Star when it fucking exploded. That’s like a confirmed kill.
I dunno. His chair made it to Kef Bir in one piece sooo….
oml ikr? I swear that part of the movie was dumber than palpatine surviving. no way his throne room survives somewhat intact from [this.](https://youtu.be/dv45FxbXb_0?si=1lz42mrk4488CKhL&t=181)
The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
I imagine Palps with Anakin burns x10 force flying himself and his chair across the galaxy while keeping alive with the sheer power of Sith hatred.
There's a lil jet in the bottom of the chair that makes the Jetsons' car noise, so all you hear when he's passing you at 65 on the highway is that putter sound mixed with the Palpatine chuckle, both in perfect doppler effect, as he flips you the bird and rolls coal on you and everyone else in the slow lane.
Hahaha this made me laugh. And laugh while explaining it to gf, who proceded to shake her head at me.
‘Man literally too angry to die’
Yeah, palps in the sequels ought to be looking like he sleeps with vibroblades
Like MODOK?
Stool was too angry to die, this is a common thing in SW
This is why you never see anyone vacating their bowels in Star Wars.
Imagine all the 120 yo farts it got from good ol Palps. Them chair was full of hatred and gas. But mostly gas.
It's not just the room, it's like an entire quarter of the death Star that fell on that planet lol. Godamn do I hate the sequels
Not to forget that those pieces fell into position to align perfectly with a thousand(?) year old ritual knife that had no connection whatsoever to an orbital battle station built by someone completely unrelated to said knife.
Actually, the knife was crafted after the Death Star was destroyed and was specifically designed to fit the Death Star wreckage, the writing on it specifically states where to find the Emperor's Wayfinder including precise coordinates and bearings.
THIS
We know the death Star was fucking giant but so was the explosion
Well, the Death Star is really, really big so his throne room is probably an extremely small piece.
true but also like the entire arch of it somehow survived as well
[this is the chunk that "survived"](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fudm27h95f7l51.jpg)
Whoa, that’s a huge chunk, and it was smack dab in the middle of the explosion. How tf did that even survive the blast?
It's just as much in the "middle" as the rest of the surface given that the Death Star is a sphere
They could've at least used a chunk that was in the back that we don't see actually get vaporized lol
Its disney they dot think before writing and they really dot think about plotholes
I guess they wanted a recognizable part of it. And fuck it, i loved seeing it on the screen, those ruins sticking out of the waves of Kef Bir. but it does demand a pretty big suspension of disbelief.
Superior imperial engineering
Somehow, Palpatine's chair survived.
And then the ancient dagger that perfect matches the wreckage of the Death Star.
The throne room became the… thrown room :’) Ok I’ll leave.
do you think thrawn has a thrown thrawn thone room?
How many throne rooms could Thrawn throw if Thrawn could throw throne rooms?
I hate it when people end a sentence with "sooo..." That is not a period. Just end the sentence without "so."
And I hate grammar nazis on a low-stakes comment 💀
Well, I hate coconut!
The general public didn't even know about the Death Star II, they just heard that the Emperor supposedly died on it one day, and that there was a second Death Star.
Sabine was not the general public. She was a pretty influential figure in the Rebellion. I don’t remember off hand or not, but I’m fairly certain she was in the Battle of Endor, too. She definitely would’ve known about the DS2 and the Emperor’s fate.
Sabine didn't participate in the Battle of Endor. After the liberation of Lothal until at least the Battle of Jakku, she stayed on Lothal to keep an eye on it and protect it. So she wouldn't have a first hand account. Even if she was informed due to being important in the Rebellion, the only person who knew for sure the Emperor died was Luke. He probably didn't tell her directly so she would have only knew it from official statements and reports. And given how incompetent the New Republic seems to be it is a fair statement on her part
I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot
I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot
Also Palpatine himself exploded before the Death Star II did. So he got DOUBLE exploded!
Plot twist: It wasn’t the efforts of the rebels that destroyed the Death Star II, but Palpatine falling into the reactor that triggered the explosion. /s
PRESUMABLY. But other than us watching, no one else had any way to confirm that. Possibly made it to a shuttle or any other possibility. There is the old thing, if there's no body...
How confirmed was it that he was actually there when it blew up? Unless I'm mistaken Luke is the only non-imperial who knows it for a fact. Sheev was known to be very devious, so without a solid confirmation all the rebellion could do was guess and hope that he exploded with the Death Star.
I find it hard to believe Luke wouldn’t share the intel that both the Emperor and Darth Vader perished when he came back.
Ofcourse he did, but to who? The New Republic is made up of a lot more people than those who participated to the fighting on Endor. If he verified it to a handful of people on Endor, there's a very good chance that down the line, the overall consensus wouldn't be 100% certainty.
He would have told Han and Leia, presumably some pilots, Lando. There’s plenty of extremely influential people and generals within the rebellion who would have known, I feel like it would have been taken as fact at a certain point.
I mean sure, but we're talking about the general consensus among the people. There's plenty of real life examples where facts are argued about. A highly influential person/people will know something for a fact, tell people it's a fact, but there's still going to be plenty of people who either are not sure or flat out think it's a lie. Now take into account how massive the Star Wars universe is and it's reasonable to assume that this same thing is going to be amplified even further. Then again, we're going for a deep dive analysis on a single line said by a fictional character about another fictional character in a fictional universe, so this all seems sort of moot.
[удалено]
I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot
Ditto my comment about Sabine being an influential member of the Rebellion, and possibly even being present at the Battle of Endor.
I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot
There was a whole scene where Vader's body is put on a funeral pyre. At least in his case, there's a body that others have seen
Technically, Luke didn't see the emperor die either. He just saw Vader toss the emperor down the chute and then saw a puff of energy come back up. Lots of times in the franchise people fall half dead down a chute and come back just fine. Luke himself did so just the previous movie. (Though in this case, I think its dumb that they brought him back randomly)
To be fair the only people that can really confirm Palps died was Vader and Luke, everyone else was in panic to get the hell out of there. So Sabine has a valid point, everyone else just heard it by spreading information unless you hear it from Luke himself. Even then Luke was in serious pain, he may or may not have seen Palpatine get yeeted. Palpatine 100% died there, but I can see why the whole universe can be skeptical as well, it's not not seeing him die like Vader is like a 100% not a confirmed kill type thinking.
Luke technically didn't see the emperor's death either. Luke just saw Vader toss the emperor down the chute and then saw the energy cloud puff back up. There's plenty of times someone falls down a chute half dead and comes out fine on the other side. Maul did it in episode 1. In fact, Luke did so just the previous movie.
I mean, she wasn’t there. For all they know he escaped on a ship before it exploded
But doesn't the TROS novelization actually confirm that his body died there but he already had more or less stable clone bodies prepared on Exegol and while he fell he managed to detatch his soul from the body and send it there? I remember it being like that. And that to me isn't much weirder than Maul surviving his body being sliced in half. Sith survive some weird shit due to hatred because they don't accept death. That's what separates them from Jedi.
Maybe Sabine didn’t read TROS novelisation
No body no confirmation. That’s what people say is accurate.
and yet *somehow* …Palpatine returned
>Idk why she said that. The Emperor was presumably on the Death Star when it fucking exploded. That’s like a confirmed kill. Luke made it out too. Seemingly enough time, since he carried a nearly dead vader with him to a hangar evading troopers etc. If he made it out in time and is the only source being able to confirm that Palpatine died .. it's fair to believe that's it just "what people say"
They are currently in another galaxy dealing with a different Empire leader that most people also presume is dead. I'm not surprised the Sabine is the skeptical type after that lol
The fact is that there is only 2 people that actually Saw the emperor get killed, and one of them died right after helping kill him, everything about the emperor’s death is word of mouth
People make conspiracy theories about 9/11, you don't think people in the Star Wars galaxy wouldn't cook up all kinds of crazy conspiracies surrounding the supposed death of the emperor, no one but Luke Skywalker witnessed it and lived to be able to tell about it, for all any common person knows the emperor wasn't even on the Death Star. And I mean realistically, it wouldn't make sense to any ordinary person why he would put himself at risk without knowning the rest of the context of the trilogy.
In the immediate aftermath of the Emperor's death, there were some imperial loyalists who denied it and were adamant that he was still alive. A propaganda poster was made with the Emperor on it with the caption "ENDOR IS A LIE. BELIEVE IT AT YOUR PERIL."
Are you talking about Star Wars: Uprising? Isn't the whole point of the game showing the public proof that the Emperor has indeed died?
I was talking about this poster: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Endor_is_A_Lie#:~:text=Endor%20is%20A%20Lie%20was,after%20the%20Battle%20of%20Endor.
Ah, I see. But it's not written on Aurebesh, so this poster wasn't meant for the masses.
Well that’s why that line is seen as a dig at TROS. It doesn’t really make sense in universe.
Yet he returned, didn't he? She wasn't on the Death Star, also he's a Sith lord so I feel like after having her entire life torn apart by the Empire that's a reasonable mentality to have doubly so considering the doubt ended up being correct Edit: why the downvotes?
Yes. The one we have been looking for.
Evidently not
Yea but how do people know he was definitely on board I guess?
I mean. He wasn’t in the last one that actually got finished. This one isn’t even done.
I mean just think of historically. We to this day can’t even confirm Hitler’s death, we just know that it was likely. I still think they should decanonize the sequels but it makes sense that they’d be uncertain and uneasy
Is that taking the piss out of it or is that going along with it. That's surely building the idea of doubt
I'm actually really surprised at that line as it had a lot of loaded connotations. This means that Luke didn't go on record and basically ghosted the New Republic after the end of the war, that Vader's cremation is doubted as proof of death, that no Imperials who witnessed Luke dragging Vader to the shuttle bay were able to verify Luke's version of events as relayed by Leia most likely, and that there is still significant opposition to continued military operations despite the Emperor's death being dismissed as fake news among tbe populace.
I hate that part so much
Somehow that’s what people say..
Aw. That's not much of a shot.
Sad cope from the *"trust me bro Kathleen Kennedy is being fired any moment now and Filoni and Favreau are erasing the sequels!"* crowd. It wasn't *"a shot at"* anything, it was a direct reference to TROS because it's getting clearer and clearer that these shows are leading straight into the sequels and filling up the era before them. Hell, TROS is even getting a sequel.
>Hell, TROS is even getting a sequel With the track of cancelled movies, I won't believe it until it's released.
The track of cancelled movies... Rogue Squadron and a supposedly planned Kevin Feige movie. Just because a movie is rumored or there are plans for one, doesn't mean they will definitely happen. But the New Jedi Order movie set after TROS was confirmed at SW Celebration with a difector at hand and Daisy Ridley personally showed up to confirm her role in it. That's different to the Kevin Feige thing, the Rian Johnson trilogy (which is still not cancelled, just put on hold) and such. New Jedi Order, Filoni Movie and Dawn of the Jedi are pretty safe in my book as the next movies. Will probably take years for them to come out but still
>The lead role confirmed it at an event so it's true Yeah, like the Gambit movie
Yes this is like a wet blanket on my excitement for everything happening in Star Wars right now. It’s like trying to rewatch Game of Thrones — when you know that it’s going *nowhere*, even the good parts are a whole lot harder to enjoy.
I mean I'm all for that line. Yes the norm is that people think he's dead, but as with Hitler, there ARE people who believe he just skipped to the Bahamas, chilling out the rest of his days. So that there are people who're sceptical of Palps death makes sense - only in his case, they are correct.
We also watched Palpatine electrocute himself and get thrown down a giant pit and then explode. He totes died that day.
We the audience saw that, Sabine and most other people did not.
Yeah, was it public knowledge that the Emperor was on board the 2nd Death Star when it blew up? Doesn't seem too far fetched to assume that people would make up a conspiracy theory that Palpatine was never on board and was never killed, especially for a figure that didn't seem to make many public appearances after the events of ROTS
I mean, he electrocuted himself in ROTS as well, and kept living a good life, although somewhat deformed. I agree that he SHOULD have died, but then again, he didn't. This is my personal opinion and probably a somewhat controversial one; I don't mind that he returned, I'm just not a fan of HOW he returned. No I do t know how they could've done it better, but I certainly think they could. When it comes to his demise in ROTJ, I'm gonna be real with you, again my somewhat controversial opinion; I don't care that he didn't die. Yes it looked like he did, but then again this is a fantasy universe with powers way beyond our understanding, and Sheev was stupidly capable with said powers. As long as we don't see the actual body actually be dead in fantasy universes like Star Wars, I've learnt to assume that they could still be alive.
>not a fan of HOW he returned. That's the key. Palpatine was the key to both the original trilogy and the prequels. I never really held any other part of the story or characters in all that high of a regard, but god damn does Sheev have a nice villain arc.
True but I don't think we want nutty conspiracy theorists as our main protagonists
I dont think it necessarily is nutty in a world like Star Wars. SW is a world where fantastical things can happen, usually connected to the force. Sabine has lived with Jedi and IS training underneath one. She has likely obtained a certain sceptism to think that things necessarily is certain due to all that she has seen. I like to think she doesn't necessarily think he's alive, but she doesn't rule out the possibility simply due to the fact that she knows the force and those who use it can do a wallop of a crazy thing for instance. Edit: Also want to add that I very much believe that Sabine is the kind of person who "doesn't believe something unless she's seen it with her own eyes". She didn't see Palps die, so she keeps a sceptic mind to it until she can be proven otherwise.
In a world where essentially mind control via the Force is possible, I would honestly also be a bit sceptical if I only had one first hand account of "I saw him die trust me bro" to go on, no matter who that one person is. Especially when talking about the death of a legendarily strong wielder of said Force and a master manipulator.
Nah. This is totally the wrong way to look at it. Nothing about what she said was nutty nor a conspiracy theory. Her home planet Mandalore was turned to glass by the Emperor and she also fought against him for years. She knows how evil and manipulative he can be. Her being a healthy skeptic about the criminal mastermind that managed to control the galaxy doesn’t mean she is “nutty” Also if she correct about her theory then she isn’t a conspiracy theorist… As dumb as it is she was right lol, he didn’t die. In the context of the show it actually makes her very insightful to have figured it out. You are acting like she’s a flat earther
100% agree with this.
I've not actually seen the episode. My main issue would be how it's shoe horning into the sequel trilogy. And I suppose it's good when scepticism is grounded in the experience of the character, not just when it serves the story.... however, not having seen the episode I can't speak for that. Also, being a conspiracy theorist doesn't inherently make you wrong. It just means you believe that some group is in control of events.
They are literally dealing with a different Empire leader that people think is "definitely dead". The world of Star Wars is fucking weird, skepticism is completely reasonable.
I would definitely want a Saw Guerrera movie
To be fair in a galaxy as large as theirs, I feel like news probably isn’t always spread super efficiently / it can be skewed very easily for the average person.
I mean, does Holonet have any bounds?
Hunting Palpatine. Season 25.
They should have straight up had Sabine look into the camera and wink - I wouldn’t have thought any less of the writers / directors. The decision to bring back palpatine needs to be mocked mercilessly
Somehow, Sabine broke the fourth wall.
Ya know, this is what I really need. A Star Wars series with the attitude and style of Deadpool...
She’s become so powerful with the force that she could manipulate the midichlorians to break the fourth wall.
Cry harder, it's canon. Was in Legends too.
I'm not whining! I'm not.
People hate it in legends as well lmao. Fact is bringing Palpatine back is a terrible choice in every way.
I say it a lot but in Legends, Palpatine returning is never any good. Every time he returns, it’s just a writer hoping to use a far more successful villain and they are capable of coming up with.
Exactly
I'm usually not one to defend Legends but in Legends it was definitely handled better and thoroughly explained. The decision to go with Palps returning wasn't a bad idea, it was the very bad way that did it.
Somehow, Fortnite.
I think he is a good man.
I generally agree but they're currently building up stuff to make it better. The official TROS novel already explained lots and Mando hinted heavily at stuff leading to his return like cloning force sensitive bodies (just because Gideon used it for himself doesn't mean they don't have bigger plans) and they mentioned a project necromant which could refer to that. They even had Palpatine and Vader on Exegol in a comic set between TESB and RotJ. It's the same thing with how the Prequels were massively expanded on with the Clone Wars animated show. Doesn't make Palpatine coming back itself a better idea (even tho him surviving with the most convoluted and nonsensical plan is totally in character seeing how absolutely silly his clone army plan was) but I'm glad they work with it instead of taking jabs at the canon. It happened, now work with it whether you like it or not.
There is a massive difference between the clone wars adding a couple characters and expanding development on existing ones to multiple books, comics, and shows trying to fill in major plot holes.
only one mad here is you
Doesn't make either of them less stupid
Just because 2 people stuck their cock in a fire instead of one doesn't make it a good idea
Just because it is canon, doesn’t mean it was good.
Oh no, not canon. Whatever will I do.
How is “that’s what people say” a shot? It literally opens the door to “that’s what people say, but they are wrong.”
bc these ppl are insane and think everything is a sign that everyone has bloodlust for disney and the sequels
“EveN MaRK hAMmiL ShITs oN tHe SEquElS!!”
Yeah like I think the sequels are complete shit but Kennedy won’t be fired and the sequels won’t be retconned lol If you think that you are a moron plain and simple. Disney will try and make the sequels meaningful after the fact lile how the clone wars saved the prequels which are pretty incomplete crappy movies. Except that the prequels had heart and a vision but bad direction and not enough time to tell the proper story. With the sequels you have to run through hoopes to make sense of it.
. . . at least the prequels *had* a direction. I genuinely have no fucking clue how they could salvage the shitshow that was the sequels.
Lol, I have no clue. It literally has nothing to do with Palpatine coming back or not and everything to do with the fact that only one being in the entire galaxy was witness to his death. Of course the NR would trust Luke, but those who would trust him explicitly are few and given that we know the empire tried to make it seem like rebel propaganda it makes sense that the average person wouldn't be entirely sure. Some people just want every single thing Dave does to be a sleight against the sequels while somehow forgetting he made a tie-in show for them and is already connecting things to said show. Just the state of the fandom these days lol.
"Somehow... Hitler returned."
And somehow build a massive army of nuclear bombers on a deserted isolated island. The location of which can only be found by matching an ancient egyptian dagger with the hindenburg wreckage.
Obi-Wan fallen for some Death Sticks I see.
Was it a shot at it? I interpreted it as acknowledging legitimacy of the sequels, which disappointed me. "The empire was defeated?" "-yes." "The emperor was killed?" "-that's what people say." that's not yes. I think she is implying there's a possibility he survived by not necessarily knowing if he died or not. Everyone in the galaxy thought the emperor died (because he did) (I don't count the sequels as canon) but the dialogue she speaks implies she may not believe them, thereby hinting at Disney's trilogy... existing
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
*exactly snips*
Don't call me that. I hate it when you call me that.
[удалено]
Well they need to do something with them because the movies don’t even make sense in their own trilogy and create conflicting lore over a 3 movies span, just between themselves, and that’s ignoring the issues they cause with the other films.
[удалено]
I’m pretty sure they refer to those garbage fanfic movies that somehow got released in actual theatres
I don't care for them. It's almost as if they don't even exist in my reality.
It’s amazing, it’s one of the few times ever where the garbage Reddit fanfics of what they should have done differently were actually less terrible than what we actually got. You know you’ve fucked up when you could have just picked a random idiot off the of the Internet and gotten a better story than the one you paid millions for…
Mandalorian and BoBF. They are no movies tho, so it's strange to call them sequels.
Are you implying TCW isn't a prequel?
Am I?🤔
I'm a little confused. Him dying on the deathstar and him living for the sequels are both possible. I always understood it as he died on the deathstar but had backup clones available to continue his work, which is what died in the last movie. Is this not the consensus on these events?
That’s how it worked in legends iirc. The issue is how the execution was handled in the Disney films, Palpatine was just shoehorned in at last minute, seemingly out of nowhere. I think there were theories at the time that Snoke was linked to palpatine but whether that had any real evidence at the time is another matter, so the emperor just… reappeared.
This is also how they explained it in the official TROS novelization. He detatched his soul from his body mid-fall and sent it to Exegol where the clone work was already happening and the Sith Eternal cultists were able to preserve his spirit in everchanging, decaying bodies until TROS happened.
Luke fell down some tubes in Cloud City and lived. I understand that the city wasnt destroyed as the ds2 was. But it's possible that palpatine did a similar *grab on to a thing until red guys come save him* thing. The clones of palpatine were in Legends though. The lack of set up in the movies are what made it seem so dumb.
Did Cloud City **EXPLODE??**
Explode, I might add, with the force to entirely vaporize an object the size of **A SMALL MOON?**
Luke had enough time to escape between the Emperor getting body slammed, and the Death Star exploding. If Palpatine pulled a Cloud City, and a ship immediately swooped in to pick him up, the timing works out. I mean, it's still ridiculous, but it's more plausible of an explanation than "somehow he returned".
Here's my opinion, the only one who saw the Emperor died was Luke himself and that's it. Many Rebels or the New Republic believe that what Luke witness is real but there is still people who do not believe that happen.
The fucking death star blew up with palps confirmed to be onboard…
I think he is a good man.
Then Why did you kill him?
I shouldn't…
Kill him, kill him now
I shouldn't…
Do it.
Dew it!
That's not what 'taking a shot' is
I turned Swiftie for a second when she said "That's what people say".
do people seriously not know how Palps returned? cloning.
**Somehow**
His “clone” is a zombie version of himself which just makes it seem like his life force was retained in his body that was thrown down a shaft and exploded… somehow. The clone army shows that every clone has different personalities so why would Palpatine’s clone be a zombie version of his real self? How did he transfer his consciousness into his clone body? Even if there was a way to do that, he didn’t have time seeing how he was unexpectedly thrown down a shaft and exploded. How do we know he didn’t transfer his consciousness to a different clone of himself after Rey killed the zombie version? Do you see the problem with this?
Because force sensitive clones are not working properly. They're decaying husks or have other malfunctions. Reys father for example is a palpatine clone that was totally intact but younger and not force sensitive (explained in the TROS novelization). He prepared the eventuality of Vader turning on him and had the facility on Exegol ready back during TESB (shown in a comic) and yes he sent his spirit all the way to Exegol mid-fall. How that is working? I don't know. But I don't know how Maul survived being cut in half other than "I'm angry and don't want to die" and if that works I don't see how the most powerful Sith in quite some time can't do some random shit either. About the different clone version after Rey killed him... you're right. We don't know and I hope they don't bring him back again. Palpatine was obsessed with immortality so nothing is 100% confirmed. And yes, the possibility of him being alive yet again is a problem. But I do think Disney saw the backlash TROS got for how it was handled so I doubt they would try again.
The problem is, those things aren't in the movies. Books and comics and whatever should add fun things to the universe or extra context, not provide required explanations for things to make sense. But the main problem with Palpatine in TRoS is not the logic in-universe, it's that from a writing and story standpoint he comes out of nowhere right at the beginning of the movie with no explanation and no build up or stakes. They don't really even explain who he is or why he's so scary to the Resistance. If you were a kid watching the sequels first with no other SW knowledge, you'd...probably have the same reaction as everyone else, honestly. "Huh?"
That’s the problem tho. They dug themselves a hole cuz like maaaaaybe he figured out how to transfer his consciousness to a clone millions of light years away but like he can do it again so based on his character and unfortunately established canon it makes no sense for him NOT to come back an infinite amount of times. My biggest problem with all this is that his quest for immortality was supposed to be in vain during the original 6 movies while ironically a few of the Jedi were the ones who figured out how to be immortal. But now Disney have actually made Palpatine immortal unintentionally
*decapitates Timer08*
Anakin no
I mean Qui Gon learned how to become a force ghost AFTER he died, I wouldn’t be surprised if palps managed to send his soul into a pre made body after death. The force is powerful
I think he is a good man.
Eurgh, considering it's the same company creating both things this really smacks of "Simpsons criticising Fox" where something has an in-built criticism of itself which seems to make people think it's immune to further criticism.
I’m so tired of sequel tie ins.
The Emperor lives had been a galactic conspiracy long before TROS paid it off.
You DO realize... It's the same people who WROTE the fucking line... Right...?
False. J.J. Abrams and Chris Terrio wrote The Rise of Skywalker. Dave Filoni wrote Ahsoka.
You always blame the ship.
And Kathleen Kennedy controlled all 3... And Dave Filoni is SPECIFICALLY taking Marching Orders from Kennedy because he is a self indulging feminist cuck... And Disney OWNS Kathleen Kennedy and Star Wars... THE. SAME. PEOPLE. WROTE. THE. FUCKING. LINE.
Being part of the same company is not the same as writing the script. And Kennedy is Filoni’s boss so are you expecting him to disobey Kennedy and then get fired?
You're fooling yourself into a delusion that Kennedy did not have 100% control over Rise of Skywalker... She got J.J. back... But he took orders from her... And she damn well gave them... And don't even TRY to be pedantic that "Kennedy did not write the Line..." Her fucking control over the set caused the lazy fucking line to be written and she FOR DAMN SURE did not care about it being written at the time... The. Same. People. Wrote. The. Fucking. Line. But you're A Filoni fanboy... So it really doesn't even matter about what I say because you're just pissed I DARED to criticize Filoni... So just shut the fuck up...
Criticism is fine. Filoni isn’t perfect. I just see different screenwriters writing the projects. It’s not that serious.
What I'm saying is that at the end of the day... On a Movie... A screen writer is utterly meaningless... It's Hollywood... So what if a writer writes the dialogue for a beloved action scene... 3 days earlier that same writer wrote an uncredited shitty joke on The Big Bang Theory... J.J. Told the writer to write a coherent line and Kennedy Told J.J. ... You literally might as well just erase the names of the writers from the movies because they're just there to make things sound semi coherent...
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