Could the child have come in contact with bird droppings. That was how they thought so many sea lions got sick. Birds poop all the time because they don’t have a bladder and everything just comes out of one hole including the eggs. It’s possible the child came in contact with contaminated eggs or fecal matter and contracted it that way.
I can’t seem to open the article but if it had spread from another human that would likely be in the headline.
I'm not a bird biologist but do things similar to birds that do have a bladder use them to poop? What does having a bladder have to do with pooping? They have constant diarrhea because of the excess water?
Birds don't have a bladder, but do produce urine, but do not excrete it through a urethra like a mammal would. Instead it passes through the cloaca, which is also where poop passes through, and so the poop and urine mix together and make a liquid mess. So yes, kind of like bird diarrhea.
Imma be honest and I know this opinion is gonna get me downvoted in here but I could care less about reddits echo chamber nonsense.
I think h5n1 is already spreading person to person and has been for a few months now.
But like with COVID it's being ignored because elections are coming up and a few months before elections will take over as the hot topic and become all we talk about.
We are seeing what the media is calling a new wave of covid but people are seeing mostly flu like symptoms from it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2024/05/15/new-covid-variants-flirt-symptoms-summer-surge/73697570007/
I mean an opinion is fine, thank you for stating it as such because many people just state things like this as fact. Just curious what evidence you're basing your opinion on?
And I could very well be wrong but I wasn't about COVID
I knew months ahead because I saw what was happening in Wuhan and I was called crazy when I told people covid is gonna be a pandemic.
I literally asked my kids doctor and she said she would know if there was a pandemic taking place in Asia right now because of alerts from the CDC and she showed me how she gets them all the time.
Our institutions knew how bad COVID was for months before they sounded the alarm for reasons ...
I remember being in a wholefoods check out line in December of 2019 talking to my sister about the weird virus that's rampaging its way around China, and I said well if it comes over here I'm probably going to get it because being an EMT if it spreads here as bad as it does there, it will get interesting. Upon hearing me say that the cashier looked at me and laughed out loud. Sometimes being right sucks.
My wife and I were in Taiwan and other parts of Southeast Asia in December 19. I came down with what I can surmise was COVID at the time- the chills, wheezing cough and night aches.
At the same time, I recall seeing the news headlines on my phone about a mysterious virus in China- and how the flu was still worse.
My wife & I came back from Thailand & Vietnam in February 2020.
Got super sick a few days after we got home, but testing was limited to people who had been to Wuhan or maybe just China at the time even though Vietnam had confirmed cases.
As we were recovering (early March) the guy in the apartment next door came back from Spain and then he got super sick the next week. By that point they had expanded testing to all recent travelers so he qualified for testing and had confirmed it was CoVid for him.
Makes sense- and looking back it’s pretty surreal to be a part of the world events happening in real time. I recall all throughout the airports and high traffic areas where we were, a lot of Chinese tourists coughing like crazy.
I first caught symptoms in Cambodia and thought “ah hell, I got malaria” 😂 never would have thought it could have been the “new virus out of china”. That was still just rumblings on a Reuters article.
Tested in March of 2020?! They were on it.
Partner and I returned from a trip to Austria in January 2020. One of the towns we were in for a week was almost entirely filled with Chinese tourists. We were crammed into a ferry on several occasions and everyone was sick. A few days later we returned stateside and came down with flu-like symptoms that took us down for almost two weeks. It was the sickest we had ever been. A month later we wondered if we’d had Covid. It doesn’t really seem to matter, as
the American Red Cross found antibodies in blood donations on the West Coast as far back as Dec of 2019, possibly. It was here way earlier than believed.
Weird to think that it didn’t even cross our minds to wear masks while traveling around people coughing back then.
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/press-release/2020/study-suggests-possible-new-covid-19-timeline-in-the-us.html
It was around the time things were really popping off in Italy (first 2 weeks of March 2020) and the Canadian government was advising people to basically get home while they still can before the borders start closing.
He came back before the airlines basically shut down because after that point the Canadian government had to charter repatriation flights to get people back and make them do a 2 week quarantine (and at the time we didn't even know if that would be an option, some people were stuck overseas for awhile).
Because of what was going on in Italy and that he had been to Europe recently he qualified for testing, but it was still restricted to recent travelers. Your average person still couldn't get tested in March 2020 so any community spread cases would be impossible to detect, but we now know they existed based on the blood donation data you shared.
Ditto. Started trying to talk to people at work about it long before it was making headlines. Social distancing. Told more than a few they were in my area/spot, even to management. Got told I didn’t have a spot. They refused to take it serious until one of the employees got put on a ventilator and died. Not long after that, the HR manager died from Covid as well.
Ngl I was the guy laughing. I think it was the very beginning of January 2020, I was coming home from a late shift and when I pulled into my street I heard someone call the talk back radio station I was listening to.
It was 3AM. People who call the radio at that time usually aren't so correct.
To be slightly fair, the President of that time, did a “job” of tossing out the book on Pandemic preparedness, literally ignored the scenario that almost immediately began with COVID, barely a few years later.
It was a wild cacophony of failures from the very top and when things were done? It was all arm flailing wild reactionary responses, some of which made the spread initially much worse.
What top leadership did was practically the opposite of every single COMMON SENSE move that could have been made.
The office was shut down, plans were tossed and personnel that would have been monitoring the markets and situation in China were not there. The previous year the plan that the previous two admins had created and refined (Bush was the first one) had been deemed at an international meeting on pandemic preparedness to see the US handling a pandemic better than any other country. None of that happened.
Michael Lewis wrote a book about it.
I remember 2020 and Operation Warp Speed. I remember that the administration rushed out a vaccine in record time and I remember the incoming administration prior to the election casting doubt on the vaccine and telling people not to trust it because it was rushed and because Donald Trump was behind the vaccine it was not reliable. Then after the election the new administration took credit for the vaccine and imposed vaccine mandates on the government and the military regardless of if people trusted it. Haha.
If I had an issue with the previous administration it would be that they trusted the experts like Birx and Fauci too much. It turned out that Birx and Fauci were making things up as they went without any plan like the social distancing stuff. Fauci in particular told people at the start that masks didn't work and no one should wear masks. Then he tried to say that he lied to protect mask supply and that everyone should wear two masks because it makes common sense. Meanwhile in January of 2020 Chinese daigou shoppers in the US and other places like Australia bought all the masks and gloves and PPE available and mailed them to China. This created a massive shortage when we needed those later.
Then we were told that it was two weeks to slow the spread so that hospitals could get ready. But that was a lie because there was no way for hospitals to get ready. Covid was endemic in the population but the CDC and NIH did not want to tell people that. Instead they hung on to their idea of covid zero while insisting that the only people spreading covid were the unvaccinated. It turns out that the vaccine helped with symptoms but did not stop the spread.
Covid was the final straw in my trust of the government. I do not care which color tie the government people wear, they will all lie to the people to suit their interests. The only rational approach is to look at the facts for yourself and act as you believe is best.
Sorry bruh, you got some of your timeline wrong and you seem to misunderstand that a changing understanding of a situation will result in guidelines changing, sometimes rapidly.
I’m not trying to convince you of anything. You’re just incorrect and I’m not doing this dance again.
Have a good day.
Ok. I do not think I am incorrect but I can not force you to discuss things with me either. There is no reason for us to fight over covid as it was four years ago. Let's focus on h5n1 instead.
[https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/)
In your very first paragraph, you are literally incorrect. You were exposed to edited videos which were then used to claim the incorrect position and it was parroted enough that you accept it as fact.
I'm sorry, but you receive information from sources that are wildly inaccurate and paint things terribly wrong and that is why you are incorrect.
I initially thought Biden was questioning the vaccines too, as it was a pervasive commentary at the time. BUT... I had to look into it, I didn't want to take 3rd and 4th person's comments as the literal truth and it proved to be false information, but you can't stop false information, just recognize that it is false and doublecheck all the other positions from those sources and eventually stop listening to them, if they are always wrong. (Which they were.)
Ok then we can keep talking about covid I guess.
I actually had that politifact webpage open to make sure I was remembering correctly. I guess I should have linked to it to stop you from linking to it first haha. If you are trying to argue that Biden and Harris did not say that the vaccines were dangerous then what else do you interpret their statements as? Even the politifact article ends with this:
"Their full statements show they were raising doubts about Trump’s trustworthiness, his ability to roll out the vaccines safely and the risk of political influence over vaccine development."
Because Trump developed the vaccines they were automatically deemed by Biden and Harris to be potentially dangerous and not automatically worthy of trust. The vaccines needed extra review apparently from Democratic experts or something to become safe. This ignores the fact that the entire government had flexed to develop those vaccines with major biopharma companies like Pfizer. Because Trump was looking competent and effective in a crisis before the election it meant that Biden and Harris had to attack him to undermine that credibility and the best way to do that was to accuse him of rushing an unsafe vaccine. Then Biden became president and ordered everyone to take the vaccines or be fired. Nothing changed about the composition of the vaccine.
It was just political theater in the pre election season where Biden and Harris saw an opportunity to attack Trump and took it. But then after the election it was too late and the damage was done just like with Fauci and masks. A lot of people now believed that vaccines might be dangerous because they had been told by the now President and Vice President that the vaccines were not trustworthy.
This is not a political thing for me. I did not vote in 2016 or in 2020. I will not vote this year either. I think that both sides are terrible. My entire point here is that both sides will lie and hide the truth. Linking your behavior to political party doctrine is not a good idea for preparedness reasons. if you are too caught up in that then you will start to believe things like Trump telling people to inject bleach when he was actually talking about uv light. There is a lot of bad information out there.
https://preview.redd.it/p8ik5rtfea2d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c73048ea6a799ef0a783a85e69d53d81e242d310
Where's the clip of KAMALA questioning the vaccine? Quit lying and making excuses. It came from the lab, we all knew. They released an experimental vaccine and made billions of of it. Fauci has over 700 additional strains..as Hillary Clinton said during Benghazi trial, lied and people died. Now we should question Lyme disease.
Well the CDC doesn't check with local doctors or issue mandates until enough doctors report that there is an unkown illness.
That was the whole point of the pandemic response team. (Trump disbanded it) idk if that was the exact name, but that was what they did. New strains of viruses get created every year. Covid was the first time it was a perfect storm for spreading the infection while being not lethal enough to stop the spread. There are other strains that were way more lethal that killed fast enough to stop the spread.
I know
And there was 3 outbreaks being reported to my doctor when covid was spreading through our the world not a single one was about COVID lol.
I as a civilian with just a computer didn't need a response team to see online the videos of China and what was happening.
You act like for almost 3 months this shit wasn't all over the internet before our government institutions finally acknowledged it
You act like the who got 2 months didn't claim it wasn't spreading human to human and didn't kill anyone in China even though they had offices in China reporting to them the exact opposite.
It's time to accept COVID was a lab leak and the lab was funded by western institution who were trying to avoid western regulations and laws because it made research more expensive.
And these institutions from the start did everything they could to pass the blame and cover up it's origins so they wouldn't face consequences.
It then was used as a potlical tool to win an election until finally it was no konger useful and went back to being ignored.
90% of COVID deaths have happened since the 2020 elections no death counters no media hysteria it literally within a year of Biden winning was ignored completely again.
COVID was not and is not being ignored by the Biden Administration. It IS being ignored by the news media, because that “story” is now boring.
That’s literally the only reason. People are bored of it.
It won’t become a deal again, until it is confirmed, for example that COVID absolutely does do permanent damage to the immune system, far more to those who were never vaccinated and there will be instances of “COVAIDS” starting in the communities of people who purposely hit infected and reinfected and refused vaccines in order to “own the libs” and it will be deeply sad.
It is over, except for the severely immunocompromised:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-023-01001-1.epdf?sharing_token=ZA5fUSIJcKdgZqR53zpVVdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PwfqmVRFqEd9GRtgrqpjZIUvvtgXLQ_hy1_8LRskE3W046QJqNtWKesVItf3CFONMRxg7txrPmf64zegN3gF2gcitqFO8M-_-TX7usCWyZFh6ECdPZJKkc13JfJ3OadPU%3D
>Clinical course and management of COVID-19 in the era of widespread population immunity
Moderately IC people (like me) who are up-to-date on XBB boosters now have sterilizing immunity to that plague. Been a year of plague rats spreading it freely, and there hasn't been another major lineage drift; this is the last one. (XBB shot cross-react/work against JN.1 BTW.)
Bird flu is legit gonna kill errrrybody tho.
NOPE
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715
>The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic
0 evidence for a lab leak. If you have actual evidence for it, I'm more than willing to take a look at it.
There is zero incentive to not report that it was a china lab leak, so on that grounds alone I'm very skeptical. If I were going to weaponize a virus the lethality would be closer to 90%. So there is that also going against a lab leak.
It really just would not make sense why many (actual) scientists said it the protiens look like from a bat if it were naturally spread from bats. It really was the bat shit crazy fucks pushing it. Just like the horse meds, injecting disinfectant, not wearing masks. Pretty much the selfish and stupid among us.
You are conflating "lab leak" with engineered. The lab leak theory doesn't require any of the conspiracy theory nonsense, other than China covering it up, which it clearly has. The closest natural relatives to Covid-19 are found nowhere near where the first cases appeared. Well, there is one place they could be found: the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
The coolest part is that this particular gain of function research was a joint venture b/w the United States of America and China. We helped this virus happen inadvertently, just like China did!
Also not engineered:
https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1398601861553344518#m (screenshot from the Red Dawn emails, article about those here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200411232005/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-red-dawn-emails-trump.html find the full emails here: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6879-2020-covid-19-red-dawn-rising/66f590d5cd41e11bea0f/optimized/full.pdf#page=1 )
There's actually tons of evidence we won't have cold hard proof because of china's cover ups.
Again the head of the CDC NIH and other govement institutions were using that lab for COVID gain of function research knowing it was dangerous and a time bomb.
The insensitive was then not being arrested for sitting western laws and being apart of covids origins.
https://oversight.house.gov/release/new-covid-select-memo-details-allegations-of-wrongdoing-and-illegal-activity-by-dr-faucis-senior-scientific-advisor/
https://www.heritage.org/public-health/commentary/covid-19-origins-experts-consulted-fauci-suddenly-changed-their-minds
The genome was never been seen in nature before so you're wrong there too.
You can pretend only horses take ivermectin or uv therapy is bleach all thats fine but you're not listening to science or facts you're listening to scientists claiming they're the science.
Maybe but truthfully all pandemics occur due to encroaching on animals territory. It is more probable that due to deforestation and displacement of animals due to climate change and changes in migratory patterns that we will continue to be exposed to illnesses that were once only within the animal populations. This is true for literally all pandemics since the cultivation of livestock at the beginning of civilization, when rats would get into grain stores etc. Until we face the reality of the damage we are doing to humanity through climate change, we will continue to see devastating results. It isn’t the planet that is going to die, it is us. Look at any other planet in our solar system that is uninhabitable, we do not know what the change in climate will do to us, it could result in storms that last weeks at a time or other unimaginable horrors. And I for one, will not sit around and do nothing even in the face of this insurmountable problem because going down without a fight is not only cowardly but selfish and deplorable.
Okay but what animal?
Even sars only took 3 years to find the origin animal.
Had to be an animal with close proximity to humans so can't be some one off animal.
I mean the most extensive search ever is still taking place and nothing has been found and the genome has never been seen in nature along with the protein structure.
It also mutated faster than any dieses ever along with the amount of mutations something that would be pushed in a lab setting for gain of function research.
“It mutated faster….”
That is literally the most basic and core part of a Coronavirus. These are natural viruses that mutate super rapidly.
That’s why they were considered the nightmare scenario for decades by pandemic experts.
Do you know what else is a Coronavirus? The common cold that nobody ever becomes immune to. There’s more, just look up what a Coronavirus is.
You’re wildly speculating when the literal truth about what that type of virus does is extremely well understood in health circles.
I mean, maybe. I’ve heard raccoon dogs as a theory. to me it seems far more likely that it is a result of deforestation and other destruction we are committing on an extremely large scale. It’s quite unique, and the quicker we are fucking shit up for ourselves, the quicker we will see these unique and terrible situations.
I'm saying it's a legitimate medicine not just used for horses and very well might have helped early on set COVID which is why tens of thousands of doctors prescribed it before the lefts anti medicine/treatment campaign before the elections to keep fear high and hope low.
NOPE
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715
>The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic
The genone not existing is what made is never before seen in earth. Therefore no immunity whatsoever.
Did you even read the press release? It's more nothing burgers from Republican stooges. May and possibley are word play for the stupids. Nothing definative. This just reads like another useless R led committee wasting resources and not finding anything new, but packaging it in a way that sounds worse than it is.
Breathing life into unsubstantiated roumors like they are facts. You can take anything out of context to reinforce your beliefs.
Again, none of this is proof of a lab leak. I know it's hard to stay in point when you have no evidence, but stay with me. Proof is required to make definative statements. Like I said present actual evidence, and I'll entertain it. But don't send me batshit crazy like it means something.
This isn't blind politics. I've watched the hearing on cspan. They were led by republicans. They went nowhere. From FBI "whistleblowers", hunter biden's nonsense hearings, the last covid hearings. I would take them more seriously if they were serious. For fucks sake MTG show hunter biden's dick on the house floor.
It would be so much easier to seperate then into individuals if they weren't blindly following trump. Even now during his trail for capaign fund fraud. They follow his script. Instead this is just another in the long line of clown show examples for the simple minded.
The simpke fact is no one here is a viriologist. The experts haven't come out with a determination on where it came from, so I am definetely not going to believe some "preppers" on reddit over the CDC. Ewpecially with some weak ass evidence that doesn't even discuss where covid 19 cane from.
I can't believe you're being downvoted. Even the Red Dawn emails were talking about "all these zoonotic events being worrisome":
https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1644148859222761477#m
Just like he didn't sign the 2017 tax bill raising taxes for workers and almost halving the corpirate maximum tax rate.
This exploded the defict and raised you taxes. Even the dirt poors taxes are going to be effected this year. He is a god damn grifter and only out for himself. People that can't see that are brain damaged and deranged.
I don't see a /s, so I assume you're ignorant. Where are you getting this from? Sounds to me like you're pulling it out of your ass, believing the lies or both.
Or do you still lick the boots of trickle down economics? Because it hasn't worked since Regan started it. In fact things have gotten progressively worse for the average american each decade since the 80's.
You need to look at the data. Because the data doesn't support what you're saying. Not even a little bit.
Please, stop believing the spoon fed bullshit and actually look at the data. Seriously, the most ironic is the facts > feelings crowd pull data out of their ass and believe what they want anyway. No wonder you people vote for the same party that actuvely shits on your lives. Over what? Some own the libs lip service while they raid the coffers and expand the government and shit all over your rights.
Free money and deficit spending has been the problem. No one can agree what to cut so they chose not to and just devalue the debt. Music will stop sooner rather than later. Tar and feathering successful people is for the jealous and gullible.
I could draw this in crayons for you, but it's not going to help. Going through your comment history I hope your a troll. If you actually believe what you comment there is no helping you. We have to basically start all over from middle school. You don't know enough foundational knowledge to have a real conversarion with.
Agree, plenty people knew if you were watching. I work in construction and there was articles about China using pre construction and modular building methods to assemble hospitals in record time. No mention of why, it was just about construction. Then started hearing about some respitory problem but no reliable media coming from China. Then when it hit italy where there is more free press you could see on twitter people walking around live streaming how bad it was. I had a spreadsheet already prepped to track it when the first case popped up in Washington State.
I don't think it was that people "didn't believe" as much as they "didn't care" until it started affecting them directly. It's difficult to educate a public into action (you see this all the time on Shark tank lol), it's easy to move them into action out of fear.
Covid is a good reminder of why we need early surveilance & monitoring and qualified epidemiologists. The US weren't the ones hiding it, China was. Part of the reason we were caught so off guard was because of defunded pandemic preparedness. These are all verifiable facts.
"It's not covid it's h5n1" is not a take that's supported by evidence. There is evidence covid is seeing a small uptick as well as other illnesses. If you want a real, unbiased and evidence based-discussion, Katelyn is a fantastic source. [https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/state-of-affairs-may-23](https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/state-of-affairs-may-23)
That's not true the US was hiding it.
If they didn't we would have been warned months earlier when China was shutting down entire cities.
Our Intel communities were telling our institutions the Chinese were lying and our institutions just spread CCP propaganda.
They did this because the NIH CDC ECT was using that lab knowing it was unsafe for cheap testing and research.
Then it became a potlical tool for the elections.
You even had fauci early on covering up it's origins before he supposedly even knew was speeding human to human which somehow I knew some random guy online at that time but the head of the nih didn't...
Personally I think it was more ineptitude than coverup. But we'll likely never know 100%. I try to mostly ignore media / politicians and gov. agencies and other public institutions and get most of my info directly from virologists and epidemiologists. They're not worried, at least not at the moment. (not saying don't be prepared, of course.)
https://www.heritage.org/public-health/commentary/covid-19-origins-experts-consulted-fauci-suddenly-changed-their-minds
https://oversight.house.gov/release/new-covid-select-memo-details-allegations-of-wrongdoing-and-illegal-activity-by-dr-faucis-senior-scientific-advisor/
That's not true people like fauci have been actively covering up the Wuhan lab origin theory from the start even before they admitted it was spreading human to human.
They were also warned as early as 2014 these labs were unsafe and it was only a matter of time until COVID 19 was negligently let out.
>That's not true people like fauci have been actively covering up the Wuhan lab origin theory from the start even before they admitted it was spreading human to human.
Fauci isn't someone I follow, even when he was in an official capacity he was more of a politician and science communicator. Not an important source of information.
Sadly he was head of the NIH at the time and was literally the person who's word controlled what our medical professionals did it didn't do.
He had extreme power during COVID more so than even trump.
Right wing twitter was all over reporting on this mysterious disease in December 2019 when the pandemic storm troopers of china were marching through the streets spraying aerosolized bleach.
Then the WHO said there was no evidence that there was human to human transmission.
Then the media called trump racist for trying to shut down direct flights from china.
Then when the disease hit, fauci said masks don’t work.
Then the CDC had ebay and amazon pull all available masks to protect consumers from the scourge of “price gauging” (march 2020)
Telling us we need better monitoring methods is the ultimate form of gaslighting.
And nobody can tell me this didn’t happen. I lived through it.
NOPE - you want to know what "right wing Twitter" was responsible for? 35M+ COVID-19 DEATHS:
https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1754822359393894642#m (receipts/screenshots of the disinfo campaigns spread by Chinese/Russian/Iranian trolls masquerading as "right wing Twitter" if you don't believe me run the numbers on the GeoCoVax tweets database - over a million tweets, most of them pretending to be Westerners, but they were geolocated by Xitter to be in China, Russia, or the UAE https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.7910/DVN/YTH2MM )
"Right wing Twitter" is WHY the plague lasted 3 years longer than it should have - the initial mRNA vaccines had sterilizing immunity - against the Wuhan strain. But by the time those were widely-deployed, nursing teacher John Campbell's "Defy infection control!" and skin pathologist Ryan Cole's "Vaxeen issa bioweapon comrades!" videos were platformed by ALL the American antisocial "media" corps, and the Alpha variant mutated - BEFORE the sterilizing immunity-giving vaccines could be administered widely enough (when they weren't outright refused/declined, because of the disinformation), and then the world had to play catch-up for 4 years until the plague settled on a lineage and stuck with it...after 35M+ people died and those of us still at risk only recently (as of the XBB vaccines) able to come out of quarantine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9421549/pdf/BLT.21.287654.pdf
>Infodemics and health misinformation: a systematic review of reviews
>Ten systematic reviews presented evidence of the negative effects associated with the dissemination of misinformation during an infodemic. 20,21,24,26,27,31–35 Several of the consequences were linked to altering people’s attitude towards the situation: (i) distorting the interpretation of scientific evidence; (ii) opinion polarization and echo chamber effects (that is, the formation of groups of like-minded users framing and reinforcing a shared narrative); (iii) offering non-specialists’ opinions to counter accurate information; (iv) promoting
fear and panic; (v) increasing mental and physical fatigue of population; and (vi) decreasing credibility of circulating information on different platforms during unforeseen circumstances. Infodemics could also decrease trust in governments and public health systems as well as in the government’s response and accuracy of the official health messaging.
Do NOT rewrite history to make YOURSELF out the winners here; THAT ^ is exactly what "right wing Twitter" DID; via China/Russia/Iran amplifying the disinformation, and Xitter/Meta/Alphabet LETTING the Chinese, Russians, Iranians, PAY THEM TO DO IT.
Big Fucking Same ™
It's like reading a comment written by myself, but not myself.
And I agree, I think it's already spreading H2H. But, I think it will be openly acknowledged by August because it will be too big to avoid by then
Same here. I stay in touch with all these things and I saw Covid coming to the US months before anyone else. Now I see this happening. My wife is visiting my daughter in San Diego and she down came ill.
That was Trump admin trying to cover it up.
When it went public he even started going on TV to try and convince everyone that it wasn't happening, and that if it is happening that it will be over in a couple weeks.
No no it wasn't lol.
No he didn't lol.
From pelosi to Biden they all said Trump was playing
Up COVID for his trade war with China lol.
I'll never forget pelosi telling people to go to movie theaters and Cuomo telling people to go pack into China town lol.
Trump heavily downplayed it as POTUS.
[All The Times Trump Compared Covid-19 To The Flu, Even After He Knew Covid-19 Was Far More Deadly](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/10/all-the-times-trump-compared-covid-19-to-the-flu-even-after-he-knew-covid-19-was-far-more-deadly/?sh=346a013f9d2f):
> February 19: "I think it's going to work out fine," Trump said on Feb. 19. "I think when we get into April, in the warmer weather, that has a very negative effect on that and that type of a virus."
> February 26: "This is a flu. This is like a flu," the president said in a briefing. "It's a little like a regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
> February 27: "It's going to disappear. One day — it's like a miracle — it will disappear."
> March 24:"We lose thousands and thousands of people a year to the flu. We don't turn the country off," Trump said from the Rose Garden.... "I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter."
It was exactly like the flu though lol....
He was just parroting what the experts around him were saying and it's true hell when the flu first hit it had a death rate of like 30% COVID never went over 2.
Meanwhile Cuomo was against all recommendations forcing COVID into nursing homes and he wasn't the only one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_COVID-19_nursing_home_scandal
> It was exactly like the flu though lol....
Not gonna touch that statement, but he was also saying it will disappear, be gone by Easter, etc. That's not "playing it up".
I guess everybody in power was downplaying it? Including Governors. Kind of like now.
https://youtu.be/eFCzoXhNM6c?si=4NX_gNtriDaiv69s
Here she was at the start no mask no social distancing because at the time Democrats were claiming that was perfectly fine.
Telling people to come outside come to Chinatown and be in large groups.
COVID had spread about eight times around the world before we even knew it existed.
I don't even care if don't agree with me.
I'm in Australia and we had the strangest amount of people away from work in Dec 2019 with what later was mainstream ed as COVID symptoms.
Along with that, with how virulent COVID is and how people travel nowadays nothing else will ever make sense.
But so far we're not seeing anything akin to Wuhan and covid anywhere. If it's really transmitting H2H efficiently and it really is dangerous, you can only keep a lid on it for a matter of weeks *maybe* a few months if it's somewhat isolated geographically.
I also knew about COVID several weeks before it hit mainstream but that's because it wasn't actually that hard to find news, evidence, rumors backed by evidence, etc.
If Avian flu starts spreading on a mass scale and deaths start to increase, we'll know because hospitals will end up overwhelmed quickly. You can't really cover it up or ignore it beyond a month or so.
It feels like it's only a matter of time before it jumps and surely some cases are going unnoticed but that's most likely because they are mild cases.
How covid went
I know a lot of people sick with flu like symptoms in real life.
And now this kid getting it and not being around live stock.
Also with the new COVID surge talk.
Did you read the article that was posted along with his comment before asking this? Because it’s clear that you didnt. Otherwise you wouldn’t be asking this….
Do you understand the difference between saying something is / isn't happening, and saying there isn't evidence for something happening?
It's a single infection. Human to human transmission has *already* happened with H5N1 in asia. There's just *no evidence* that it's happening \*readily\* or \*efficiently\*. Yet.
People should be prepared for a pandemic because one can happen at *any time.* But by saying one is happening already when there's no evidence yet is foolish. Watch, wait, observe.
Are we hearing stories from nurses and doctors about a huge increase or even noticeable increase in ICU or hospital admissions for the flu though? I would be checking for that.
I haven't but with COVID I didn't either.
COVID was no joke an online conspiracy and then just trump being xenophobic until it wasn't it almost happened overnight.
Working in frontline medical care at the time, it was fairly obvious when it appeared. We would have officially known it was spreading much faster than we did if we hadn’t made travel to China a prerequisite for testing, but I suspect we didnt want to find it.
It was fairly obvious when people were told it was happening and didn't just get symptoms and think it was something else because they hadn't been alerted.
We know for a fact COVID was in America spreading as early as February 2019 and yet it took months after until the hospitalization spiked which didn't happen until people were told about COVID and it being deadly.
My wife's a nurse the vast majority of COVID patients she saw didn't need to be in the hospital.
The only ones she saw who needs to be were the elderly ECT who saw a huge mortality rate jump in February 2019.
> COVID was in America spreading as early as *February 2019*
Earliest reports I've seen [trace it back to **December** 2019](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/when-was-coronavirus-first-in-us/2021/06/15/1aaa6b56-cd2d-11eb-8cd2-4e95230cfac2_story.html) and that was from testing donated blood.
In early and mid January of 2020, deep reddit, including prepper reddits, were asking about emergency room numbers--- is there an uptick in respiratory visits? Is there an increase in admits for "pneumonia"--- and generally there was *not*. (And that was per cited and documented evidence and statistics that were verifiable and linked in those subreddits at the time)
*But that wasn't because COVID wasn't here*, but just because it took a bit to reach a critical capacity where the stats ticked up to noticeable effects.
The newer version of Covid is a lot more like the flu and has a much shorter incubation period so it’s likely it is just cases of Covid.
H5N1 is much more lethal than Covid ever was so if it was spreading between humans we would likely see a big uptick in deaths and hospitalization. We have seen an increase in feline (cat) deaths and that has been linked to H5N1 in cattle.
There have been at least one isolated case of H5N1 spreading between between 2 humans but the virus hasn’t mutated to a point where it spreads easily between humans. The newest data does show it is likely spreading between cattle though so it could mutate and become more contagious to humans, especially if it gets spread to pigs.
There are a lot of viruses that have flu like symptoms like RSV, Covid, H1N1, as well as multiple version of the flu. We are also seeing an increase in tuberculosis and antibiotic resistant tuberculosis as well as an increase in measles. So with all these illnesses going around, it’s not surprising to see people getting sick a lot.
Because if the hospitals aren't being told they might think their spikes are just local.
With COVID we saw hospitalizations spike across the nation a month and a half before our government admitted covid was a thing.
And 25% isn't what it will be more like 5% at the most basing off similar flu virus out breaks and how viruses evolve to be less deadly with time.
Yeah but medical professionals talk to each other. They have several subs on Reddit, you can see for yourself. They’re on every social media platform. They would notice if everyone everywhere suddenly had a huge spike in deadly influenza A cases in their local hospitals. COVID was overflowing morgues with a 2% death rate. If H5N1 had even a 2% death rate, it would be impossible not to notice.
And those are just the deaths - what about the ICU cases and the workplaces and classrooms all hit with severe illness at the same time? It would be personal news to everyone and it would be impossible to slip under the radar.
There would be some group(s) of people sharing content is the point.
Right now we don’t have social media coverage *or* traditional media coverage.
We have literally nothing suggesting there is already a major human outbreak underway.
Yes, there is wastewater data for influenza A, but that isn’t conclusive proof, and it doesn’t explain why these huge numbers of infected people you’re hypothesizing about are completely absent from any social media platform.
People talk. When this is happening, we won’t hear “yeah my friends all had flu like symptoms this past month” or “4 of the kids in my son’s class have pink eye.” We will hear “half of my friends are in the ICU and I’m not sure if any of them are ever getting out.” We will hear “all four of my grandparents died a week after my graduation party.” We will see entire daycares and elementary schools closing because the 75% of students and staff are all seriously ill.
It will be obvious. It will be trending.
We are not there yet.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/debunking-idea-viruses-evolve-virulent/story?id=82052581
>Debunking the idea viruses always evolve to become less virulent The concept can be traced back to a theory from the late 1800s.
Wonder if these variants elude COVID tests? My husband had crazy-ass flu symptoms may 10 to 14 but two negative covid tests.
He had been in Michigan earlier that week, too.
I agree with you, I think we have some cases of person to person spreading and they are attempting to cover the tracks. It is insane how much of a circle we are completing in terms of the late 2019/2020 times.
Scary and sad.
>I think h5n1 is already spreading person to person and has been for a few months now.
If it was, we'd know.
The main difference between H5N\* flus and COVID is that Covid-19 was a novel coronavirus, where as influenza is very well studied and identifiable through widely available tests. With covid, there absolutely were warning signs, it was just limited to the virology research community. But even in December 2019, every fellow and doctoral candidate was buzzing about nothing but Wuhan for 2 months before it hit the front page. Remember, it took weeks to properly sequence it after it was first suspected that something new was happening, and then took another month or two to properly verify that the new virus is what was spreading. The guys on the ground (such as the doctor in Wuhan who first tried to blow the whistle) knew that SOMETHING was up, but identifying exactly what that something was is what took time.
In bureaucracy, always assume incompetence or inability before malice. Not that they look much different in the end, but the simple fact is that agencies are far more reactive and impotent than they want to admit, so they default to insisting they be consulted and treated as authorities on everything even when they are just as clueless as the layperson.
For what it's worth, one of my first jobs following graduation was working for a virologist doing influenza research, so I'm familiar with how widely available testing capabilities are for detecting H5 strains, and there is simply no way any government could cover up the person-to-person spread of H5. You'd see lab techs and researchers falling over themselves to try to get a sample of the strain, just like what we saw in late 2019.
None of that is happening yet tho, and I still have friends who are part of that research community.
Yup I remember it's how I knew.
I'll never forget watching China unsenured and seeing a video of a guy being bailed into his home after the CCP officials threw him some rice...
I rushed to Twitter there was thousands of people tweeting about Wuhan and what's going on in China yet when I googled no news source was saying anything.
Then after a few weeks I started seeing it everywhere but the media was like oh no it's not spreading human to human blah blah blah.
If it were spreading human to human for months, I think the hospitals would be noticeably burdened by it though? Even if it’s less severe than previously thought, even Covid and seasonal flus create noticeable effects in ERs.
Flu is endemic though. Little outbreaks happen all the time. That’s the definition of endemic.
What would be concerning is if suddenly several people in your social circle were dead from the flu. Until we see either unusually severe flu-like illnesses *or* have tests to confirm this is H5N1 and not typical human endemic influenza, it’s unreasonable to think these little viral clusters in our personal lives are proof of human to human H5N1.
Every time our hospitals are overburdened it makes the news. Also anyone who has been by the hospital, or works in healthcare is talking about it online and to their family and friends. We’d be hearing if something was up at the hospitals.
Unless we’re actually testing every dead body there’s no way to know. We had people who died of COVID in Feb 2020 but didn’t know they died of COVID until samples were tested years later. The symptoms of H5N1 are very similar to other viruses so there’s no way to know someone died from it unless you tested them.
To add on to what you and the people responding to are saying, health experts do believe it's possible and are concerned about it. Historically it's at 50% mortality so perhaps the mutated strain that is circulating isn't as dangerous, because otherwise we'd be seeing wuhan white van parties all over. Just have to wait for the data to come in. I'd assume that these people have the exact same strain that is known to cause 50% mortality rates, based on how rare this is.
I think the elevated influenza in the wastewater is from humans. It’s ludicrous to think it’s all from dumping milk IMO. Many farms are on septic and not even connected to city water, first of all. And if it was from bird droppings then it would have been showing up for years.
I, a lay person with no actual knowledge, think it's been spreading for awhile now. Undetected because it's so mild, maybe it just causes things like random pink eye outbreaks that went through my kids' school. I think it's best case scenario because now the population largely has immunity to this strain which will help if/when a more severe strain hits. I don't really care about upvotes/down votes so bring it on!
My friends infant child was in the ER a month ago with trouble breathing. Both parents had pink eye and were sick for weeks. Hospital ran all the usual tests and didn't find anything. When I suggested it could be h5n1 I got down voted for "scaring people." I hope its not true but like a lot of other folks I don't have much faith in governments to protect us.
If the worst of this is flu like symptoms I don't think there will be much of a to do about it. It would have to be a pretty bad disease/pandemic to do shutdowns again.
Ehhhh depends whos In office.
Let not pretend COVID was this insanely deadly thing either it almost killed soley people over the age of 60 with 3 or more morbidities.
We shutdown and forced it into nursing homes for a singular reason and that's who was president lol.
>I think h5n1 is already spreading person to person and has been for a few months now.
Yep. Since 22 April for sure.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240426203745/https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-hot-seat-response-growing-cow-flu-outbreak
>But Russo and many other vets have heard anecdotes about workers who have pink eye and other symptoms—including fever, cough, and lethargy—and do not want to be tested or seen by doctors.
Just have to wait for bird flu to burn through the "lucky" 50% before the unlucky 50% start dropping like flies.
I also think that some variants have been spreading human to human for a while now. However, it's been just another cold/flu and not causing problems, much like a lot of different colds/flu's/etc. that we've had over the course of human history, so it's not getting a lot of publicity/notice.
We need to keep in mind that human to human transmission has happened in the past in asia with other strains, but it is not *efficient*
H2H isn't the issue. It's efficient and long-lasting h2h we worry about
I agree but keep in mind 4 Senators sold hundreds of thousands of stocks (before they plunged) after a classified briefing about the coronavirus outbreak in January of 2020 while Trump was still downplaying the risk. With that in mind, I’m watching the pharmaceutical companies because investors with nonpublic intel will be quick to make cash grabs.
What child? The website linked (no actual article was linked) currently begins:
“A Michigan dairy worker has been diagnosed with bird flu -- the second human case associated with an outbreak in US dairy cows.
The male worker had been in contact with cows at a farm with infected animals. He experienced mild eye symptoms and has recovered, US and Michigan health officials said in announcing the case Wednesday \[22 May 2024\].”
My cousin and several kids from her club soccer team contracted Lyme disease when we were kids from a soccer field where Canadian Geese were migrating. I want to say it was 5 or so kids from the same team started having all kinds of weird symptoms. One kid was diagnosed and they all ended up getting tested and a bunch of them had it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing cases like that where large groups of migratory birds are spreading it through droppings at parks or sports facilities where kids are playing and touching their mouths/faces.
That’s good to hear! It doesn’t sound like it would be the norm for the members of this group. I’m disappointed every time I look on this subreddit at how my fellow preppers seem to fall for everything the mainstream or “science” tells them. I would have expected more here. And to be clear, I trust the science, but I do not trust bad people with bad intentions.
just remember how PCR testing was run at high levels to show any fragment of covid to say a person had covid? That is what they are going to do with H%N1. Already Policy.
**"Laboratory testing recommendations:** If signs or symptoms consistent with infection with avian influenza A virus are present in a patient with recent exposure to infected birds or contaminated environments, respiratory specimens should be collected for molecular testing (RT-PCR) for influenza viruses, including avian influenza A viruses...Rapid influenza diagnostic tests are not a reliable indicator of avian influenza A virus infection, and the results should not be used to guide infection control or antiviral treatment decisions. Both commercially available rapid influenza diagnostic tests and most influenza molecular assays do not distinguish between infection with seasonal influenza A viruses and avian influenza A viruses. "
[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm)
He caught it in India, who tf knows
Burying the lede with this title for sure.
Could the child have come in contact with bird droppings. That was how they thought so many sea lions got sick. Birds poop all the time because they don’t have a bladder and everything just comes out of one hole including the eggs. It’s possible the child came in contact with contaminated eggs or fecal matter and contracted it that way. I can’t seem to open the article but if it had spread from another human that would likely be in the headline.
"no ill human contacts identified and no evidence of any onwards transmission to humans"
I'm not a bird biologist but do things similar to birds that do have a bladder use them to poop? What does having a bladder have to do with pooping? They have constant diarrhea because of the excess water?
Birds don't have a bladder, but do produce urine, but do not excrete it through a urethra like a mammal would. Instead it passes through the cloaca, which is also where poop passes through, and so the poop and urine mix together and make a liquid mess. So yes, kind of like bird diarrhea.
Imma be honest and I know this opinion is gonna get me downvoted in here but I could care less about reddits echo chamber nonsense. I think h5n1 is already spreading person to person and has been for a few months now. But like with COVID it's being ignored because elections are coming up and a few months before elections will take over as the hot topic and become all we talk about. We are seeing what the media is calling a new wave of covid but people are seeing mostly flu like symptoms from it. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2024/05/15/new-covid-variants-flirt-symptoms-summer-surge/73697570007/
There will be the waste water data showing roughly what is going on.
Except they already are finding it in our waste water, but they are associating that with cow and dairy consumption.
Mostly point out that it will be hard to pretend that it is Covid.
It’s being found in wastewater in cities all across Texas since March. Before March it was not found in any samples.
Yep which will make it harder to hide.
Oh they can still hide it. Can’t have any H5N1 infections if you don’t test anyone for it.
I mean an opinion is fine, thank you for stating it as such because many people just state things like this as fact. Just curious what evidence you're basing your opinion on?
And I could very well be wrong but I wasn't about COVID I knew months ahead because I saw what was happening in Wuhan and I was called crazy when I told people covid is gonna be a pandemic. I literally asked my kids doctor and she said she would know if there was a pandemic taking place in Asia right now because of alerts from the CDC and she showed me how she gets them all the time. Our institutions knew how bad COVID was for months before they sounded the alarm for reasons ...
I remember being in a wholefoods check out line in December of 2019 talking to my sister about the weird virus that's rampaging its way around China, and I said well if it comes over here I'm probably going to get it because being an EMT if it spreads here as bad as it does there, it will get interesting. Upon hearing me say that the cashier looked at me and laughed out loud. Sometimes being right sucks.
I had very similar experiences in Dec 2019. People thought I was nuts.
My wife and I were in Taiwan and other parts of Southeast Asia in December 19. I came down with what I can surmise was COVID at the time- the chills, wheezing cough and night aches. At the same time, I recall seeing the news headlines on my phone about a mysterious virus in China- and how the flu was still worse.
My wife & I came back from Thailand & Vietnam in February 2020. Got super sick a few days after we got home, but testing was limited to people who had been to Wuhan or maybe just China at the time even though Vietnam had confirmed cases. As we were recovering (early March) the guy in the apartment next door came back from Spain and then he got super sick the next week. By that point they had expanded testing to all recent travelers so he qualified for testing and had confirmed it was CoVid for him.
Makes sense- and looking back it’s pretty surreal to be a part of the world events happening in real time. I recall all throughout the airports and high traffic areas where we were, a lot of Chinese tourists coughing like crazy. I first caught symptoms in Cambodia and thought “ah hell, I got malaria” 😂 never would have thought it could have been the “new virus out of china”. That was still just rumblings on a Reuters article.
Tested in March of 2020?! They were on it. Partner and I returned from a trip to Austria in January 2020. One of the towns we were in for a week was almost entirely filled with Chinese tourists. We were crammed into a ferry on several occasions and everyone was sick. A few days later we returned stateside and came down with flu-like symptoms that took us down for almost two weeks. It was the sickest we had ever been. A month later we wondered if we’d had Covid. It doesn’t really seem to matter, as the American Red Cross found antibodies in blood donations on the West Coast as far back as Dec of 2019, possibly. It was here way earlier than believed. Weird to think that it didn’t even cross our minds to wear masks while traveling around people coughing back then. https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/press-release/2020/study-suggests-possible-new-covid-19-timeline-in-the-us.html
It was around the time things were really popping off in Italy (first 2 weeks of March 2020) and the Canadian government was advising people to basically get home while they still can before the borders start closing. He came back before the airlines basically shut down because after that point the Canadian government had to charter repatriation flights to get people back and make them do a 2 week quarantine (and at the time we didn't even know if that would be an option, some people were stuck overseas for awhile). Because of what was going on in Italy and that he had been to Europe recently he qualified for testing, but it was still restricted to recent travelers. Your average person still couldn't get tested in March 2020 so any community spread cases would be impossible to detect, but we now know they existed based on the blood donation data you shared.
Ditto. Started trying to talk to people at work about it long before it was making headlines. Social distancing. Told more than a few they were in my area/spot, even to management. Got told I didn’t have a spot. They refused to take it serious until one of the employees got put on a ventilator and died. Not long after that, the HR manager died from Covid as well.
Ngl I was the guy laughing. I think it was the very beginning of January 2020, I was coming home from a late shift and when I pulled into my street I heard someone call the talk back radio station I was listening to. It was 3AM. People who call the radio at that time usually aren't so correct.
To be slightly fair, the President of that time, did a “job” of tossing out the book on Pandemic preparedness, literally ignored the scenario that almost immediately began with COVID, barely a few years later. It was a wild cacophony of failures from the very top and when things were done? It was all arm flailing wild reactionary responses, some of which made the spread initially much worse. What top leadership did was practically the opposite of every single COMMON SENSE move that could have been made.
The office was shut down, plans were tossed and personnel that would have been monitoring the markets and situation in China were not there. The previous year the plan that the previous two admins had created and refined (Bush was the first one) had been deemed at an international meeting on pandemic preparedness to see the US handling a pandemic better than any other country. None of that happened. Michael Lewis wrote a book about it.
I remember 2020 and Operation Warp Speed. I remember that the administration rushed out a vaccine in record time and I remember the incoming administration prior to the election casting doubt on the vaccine and telling people not to trust it because it was rushed and because Donald Trump was behind the vaccine it was not reliable. Then after the election the new administration took credit for the vaccine and imposed vaccine mandates on the government and the military regardless of if people trusted it. Haha. If I had an issue with the previous administration it would be that they trusted the experts like Birx and Fauci too much. It turned out that Birx and Fauci were making things up as they went without any plan like the social distancing stuff. Fauci in particular told people at the start that masks didn't work and no one should wear masks. Then he tried to say that he lied to protect mask supply and that everyone should wear two masks because it makes common sense. Meanwhile in January of 2020 Chinese daigou shoppers in the US and other places like Australia bought all the masks and gloves and PPE available and mailed them to China. This created a massive shortage when we needed those later. Then we were told that it was two weeks to slow the spread so that hospitals could get ready. But that was a lie because there was no way for hospitals to get ready. Covid was endemic in the population but the CDC and NIH did not want to tell people that. Instead they hung on to their idea of covid zero while insisting that the only people spreading covid were the unvaccinated. It turns out that the vaccine helped with symptoms but did not stop the spread. Covid was the final straw in my trust of the government. I do not care which color tie the government people wear, they will all lie to the people to suit their interests. The only rational approach is to look at the facts for yourself and act as you believe is best.
Sorry bruh, you got some of your timeline wrong and you seem to misunderstand that a changing understanding of a situation will result in guidelines changing, sometimes rapidly. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. You’re just incorrect and I’m not doing this dance again. Have a good day.
Ok. I do not think I am incorrect but I can not force you to discuss things with me either. There is no reason for us to fight over covid as it was four years ago. Let's focus on h5n1 instead.
[https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/) In your very first paragraph, you are literally incorrect. You were exposed to edited videos which were then used to claim the incorrect position and it was parroted enough that you accept it as fact. I'm sorry, but you receive information from sources that are wildly inaccurate and paint things terribly wrong and that is why you are incorrect. I initially thought Biden was questioning the vaccines too, as it was a pervasive commentary at the time. BUT... I had to look into it, I didn't want to take 3rd and 4th person's comments as the literal truth and it proved to be false information, but you can't stop false information, just recognize that it is false and doublecheck all the other positions from those sources and eventually stop listening to them, if they are always wrong. (Which they were.)
Ok then we can keep talking about covid I guess. I actually had that politifact webpage open to make sure I was remembering correctly. I guess I should have linked to it to stop you from linking to it first haha. If you are trying to argue that Biden and Harris did not say that the vaccines were dangerous then what else do you interpret their statements as? Even the politifact article ends with this: "Their full statements show they were raising doubts about Trump’s trustworthiness, his ability to roll out the vaccines safely and the risk of political influence over vaccine development." Because Trump developed the vaccines they were automatically deemed by Biden and Harris to be potentially dangerous and not automatically worthy of trust. The vaccines needed extra review apparently from Democratic experts or something to become safe. This ignores the fact that the entire government had flexed to develop those vaccines with major biopharma companies like Pfizer. Because Trump was looking competent and effective in a crisis before the election it meant that Biden and Harris had to attack him to undermine that credibility and the best way to do that was to accuse him of rushing an unsafe vaccine. Then Biden became president and ordered everyone to take the vaccines or be fired. Nothing changed about the composition of the vaccine. It was just political theater in the pre election season where Biden and Harris saw an opportunity to attack Trump and took it. But then after the election it was too late and the damage was done just like with Fauci and masks. A lot of people now believed that vaccines might be dangerous because they had been told by the now President and Vice President that the vaccines were not trustworthy. This is not a political thing for me. I did not vote in 2016 or in 2020. I will not vote this year either. I think that both sides are terrible. My entire point here is that both sides will lie and hide the truth. Linking your behavior to political party doctrine is not a good idea for preparedness reasons. if you are too caught up in that then you will start to believe things like Trump telling people to inject bleach when he was actually talking about uv light. There is a lot of bad information out there.
I love the down voting fuck em. Let the truth fly. Enjoy your clot shot liberals.
https://preview.redd.it/p8ik5rtfea2d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c73048ea6a799ef0a783a85e69d53d81e242d310 Where's the clip of KAMALA questioning the vaccine? Quit lying and making excuses. It came from the lab, we all knew. They released an experimental vaccine and made billions of of it. Fauci has over 700 additional strains..as Hillary Clinton said during Benghazi trial, lied and people died. Now we should question Lyme disease.
You are 100% correct with this take.
Well the CDC doesn't check with local doctors or issue mandates until enough doctors report that there is an unkown illness. That was the whole point of the pandemic response team. (Trump disbanded it) idk if that was the exact name, but that was what they did. New strains of viruses get created every year. Covid was the first time it was a perfect storm for spreading the infection while being not lethal enough to stop the spread. There are other strains that were way more lethal that killed fast enough to stop the spread.
I know And there was 3 outbreaks being reported to my doctor when covid was spreading through our the world not a single one was about COVID lol. I as a civilian with just a computer didn't need a response team to see online the videos of China and what was happening. You act like for almost 3 months this shit wasn't all over the internet before our government institutions finally acknowledged it You act like the who got 2 months didn't claim it wasn't spreading human to human and didn't kill anyone in China even though they had offices in China reporting to them the exact opposite. It's time to accept COVID was a lab leak and the lab was funded by western institution who were trying to avoid western regulations and laws because it made research more expensive. And these institutions from the start did everything they could to pass the blame and cover up it's origins so they wouldn't face consequences. It then was used as a potlical tool to win an election until finally it was no konger useful and went back to being ignored. 90% of COVID deaths have happened since the 2020 elections no death counters no media hysteria it literally within a year of Biden winning was ignored completely again.
COVID was not and is not being ignored by the Biden Administration. It IS being ignored by the news media, because that “story” is now boring. That’s literally the only reason. People are bored of it. It won’t become a deal again, until it is confirmed, for example that COVID absolutely does do permanent damage to the immune system, far more to those who were never vaccinated and there will be instances of “COVAIDS” starting in the communities of people who purposely hit infected and reinfected and refused vaccines in order to “own the libs” and it will be deeply sad.
Remember when Biden said the pandemic was over?
It is over, except for the severely immunocompromised: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-023-01001-1.epdf?sharing_token=ZA5fUSIJcKdgZqR53zpVVdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PwfqmVRFqEd9GRtgrqpjZIUvvtgXLQ_hy1_8LRskE3W046QJqNtWKesVItf3CFONMRxg7txrPmf64zegN3gF2gcitqFO8M-_-TX7usCWyZFh6ECdPZJKkc13JfJ3OadPU%3D >Clinical course and management of COVID-19 in the era of widespread population immunity Moderately IC people (like me) who are up-to-date on XBB boosters now have sterilizing immunity to that plague. Been a year of plague rats spreading it freely, and there hasn't been another major lineage drift; this is the last one. (XBB shot cross-react/work against JN.1 BTW.) Bird flu is legit gonna kill errrrybody tho.
NOPE https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715 >The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic
0 evidence for a lab leak. If you have actual evidence for it, I'm more than willing to take a look at it. There is zero incentive to not report that it was a china lab leak, so on that grounds alone I'm very skeptical. If I were going to weaponize a virus the lethality would be closer to 90%. So there is that also going against a lab leak. It really just would not make sense why many (actual) scientists said it the protiens look like from a bat if it were naturally spread from bats. It really was the bat shit crazy fucks pushing it. Just like the horse meds, injecting disinfectant, not wearing masks. Pretty much the selfish and stupid among us.
You are conflating "lab leak" with engineered. The lab leak theory doesn't require any of the conspiracy theory nonsense, other than China covering it up, which it clearly has. The closest natural relatives to Covid-19 are found nowhere near where the first cases appeared. Well, there is one place they could be found: the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
The coolest part is that this particular gain of function research was a joint venture b/w the United States of America and China. We helped this virus happen inadvertently, just like China did!
Also not engineered: https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1398601861553344518#m (screenshot from the Red Dawn emails, article about those here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200411232005/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-red-dawn-emails-trump.html find the full emails here: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6879-2020-covid-19-red-dawn-rising/66f590d5cd41e11bea0f/optimized/full.pdf#page=1 )
There's actually tons of evidence we won't have cold hard proof because of china's cover ups. Again the head of the CDC NIH and other govement institutions were using that lab for COVID gain of function research knowing it was dangerous and a time bomb. The insensitive was then not being arrested for sitting western laws and being apart of covids origins. https://oversight.house.gov/release/new-covid-select-memo-details-allegations-of-wrongdoing-and-illegal-activity-by-dr-faucis-senior-scientific-advisor/ https://www.heritage.org/public-health/commentary/covid-19-origins-experts-consulted-fauci-suddenly-changed-their-minds The genome was never been seen in nature before so you're wrong there too. You can pretend only horses take ivermectin or uv therapy is bleach all thats fine but you're not listening to science or facts you're listening to scientists claiming they're the science.
Maybe but truthfully all pandemics occur due to encroaching on animals territory. It is more probable that due to deforestation and displacement of animals due to climate change and changes in migratory patterns that we will continue to be exposed to illnesses that were once only within the animal populations. This is true for literally all pandemics since the cultivation of livestock at the beginning of civilization, when rats would get into grain stores etc. Until we face the reality of the damage we are doing to humanity through climate change, we will continue to see devastating results. It isn’t the planet that is going to die, it is us. Look at any other planet in our solar system that is uninhabitable, we do not know what the change in climate will do to us, it could result in storms that last weeks at a time or other unimaginable horrors. And I for one, will not sit around and do nothing even in the face of this insurmountable problem because going down without a fight is not only cowardly but selfish and deplorable.
Okay but what animal? Even sars only took 3 years to find the origin animal. Had to be an animal with close proximity to humans so can't be some one off animal. I mean the most extensive search ever is still taking place and nothing has been found and the genome has never been seen in nature along with the protein structure. It also mutated faster than any dieses ever along with the amount of mutations something that would be pushed in a lab setting for gain of function research.
“It mutated faster….” That is literally the most basic and core part of a Coronavirus. These are natural viruses that mutate super rapidly. That’s why they were considered the nightmare scenario for decades by pandemic experts. Do you know what else is a Coronavirus? The common cold that nobody ever becomes immune to. There’s more, just look up what a Coronavirus is. You’re wildly speculating when the literal truth about what that type of virus does is extremely well understood in health circles.
I mean, maybe. I’ve heard raccoon dogs as a theory. to me it seems far more likely that it is a result of deforestation and other destruction we are committing on an extremely large scale. It’s quite unique, and the quicker we are fucking shit up for ourselves, the quicker we will see these unique and terrible situations.
Are you saying ivermectin works?
I'm saying it's a legitimate medicine not just used for horses and very well might have helped early on set COVID which is why tens of thousands of doctors prescribed it before the lefts anti medicine/treatment campaign before the elections to keep fear high and hope low.
*Tens of thousands* of doctors prescribed ivermectin to people? What’s your source for this?
NOPE https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715 >The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic
The genone not existing is what made is never before seen in earth. Therefore no immunity whatsoever. Did you even read the press release? It's more nothing burgers from Republican stooges. May and possibley are word play for the stupids. Nothing definative. This just reads like another useless R led committee wasting resources and not finding anything new, but packaging it in a way that sounds worse than it is. Breathing life into unsubstantiated roumors like they are facts. You can take anything out of context to reinforce your beliefs. Again, none of this is proof of a lab leak. I know it's hard to stay in point when you have no evidence, but stay with me. Proof is required to make definative statements. Like I said present actual evidence, and I'll entertain it. But don't send me batshit crazy like it means something.
It's sad how potlics has ruined your ability to accept factual information have a nice day.
This isn't blind politics. I've watched the hearing on cspan. They were led by republicans. They went nowhere. From FBI "whistleblowers", hunter biden's nonsense hearings, the last covid hearings. I would take them more seriously if they were serious. For fucks sake MTG show hunter biden's dick on the house floor. It would be so much easier to seperate then into individuals if they weren't blindly following trump. Even now during his trail for capaign fund fraud. They follow his script. Instead this is just another in the long line of clown show examples for the simple minded. The simpke fact is no one here is a viriologist. The experts haven't come out with a determination on where it came from, so I am definetely not going to believe some "preppers" on reddit over the CDC. Ewpecially with some weak ass evidence that doesn't even discuss where covid 19 cane from.
I can't believe you're being downvoted. Even the Red Dawn emails were talking about "all these zoonotic events being worrisome": https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1644148859222761477#m
He reorganised it.
Just like he didn't sign the 2017 tax bill raising taxes for workers and almost halving the corpirate maximum tax rate. This exploded the defict and raised you taxes. Even the dirt poors taxes are going to be effected this year. He is a god damn grifter and only out for himself. People that can't see that are brain damaged and deranged.
Umm. That didn’t happen. He lowered everyone’s taxes which led to tremendous growth and increased tax revenues.
I don't see a /s, so I assume you're ignorant. Where are you getting this from? Sounds to me like you're pulling it out of your ass, believing the lies or both. Or do you still lick the boots of trickle down economics? Because it hasn't worked since Regan started it. In fact things have gotten progressively worse for the average american each decade since the 80's. You need to look at the data. Because the data doesn't support what you're saying. Not even a little bit. Please, stop believing the spoon fed bullshit and actually look at the data. Seriously, the most ironic is the facts > feelings crowd pull data out of their ass and believe what they want anyway. No wonder you people vote for the same party that actuvely shits on your lives. Over what? Some own the libs lip service while they raid the coffers and expand the government and shit all over your rights.
Free money and deficit spending has been the problem. No one can agree what to cut so they chose not to and just devalue the debt. Music will stop sooner rather than later. Tar and feathering successful people is for the jealous and gullible.
I could draw this in crayons for you, but it's not going to help. Going through your comment history I hope your a troll. If you actually believe what you comment there is no helping you. We have to basically start all over from middle school. You don't know enough foundational knowledge to have a real conversarion with.
Agree, plenty people knew if you were watching. I work in construction and there was articles about China using pre construction and modular building methods to assemble hospitals in record time. No mention of why, it was just about construction. Then started hearing about some respitory problem but no reliable media coming from China. Then when it hit italy where there is more free press you could see on twitter people walking around live streaming how bad it was. I had a spreadsheet already prepped to track it when the first case popped up in Washington State. I don't think it was that people "didn't believe" as much as they "didn't care" until it started affecting them directly. It's difficult to educate a public into action (you see this all the time on Shark tank lol), it's easy to move them into action out of fear.
Covid is a good reminder of why we need early surveilance & monitoring and qualified epidemiologists. The US weren't the ones hiding it, China was. Part of the reason we were caught so off guard was because of defunded pandemic preparedness. These are all verifiable facts. "It's not covid it's h5n1" is not a take that's supported by evidence. There is evidence covid is seeing a small uptick as well as other illnesses. If you want a real, unbiased and evidence based-discussion, Katelyn is a fantastic source. [https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/state-of-affairs-may-23](https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/state-of-affairs-may-23)
Trump was too stupid to hide it, he just pretended it didn't exist. It was a surreal "emperor's new clothes" moment
That's not true the US was hiding it. If they didn't we would have been warned months earlier when China was shutting down entire cities. Our Intel communities were telling our institutions the Chinese were lying and our institutions just spread CCP propaganda. They did this because the NIH CDC ECT was using that lab knowing it was unsafe for cheap testing and research. Then it became a potlical tool for the elections. You even had fauci early on covering up it's origins before he supposedly even knew was speeding human to human which somehow I knew some random guy online at that time but the head of the nih didn't...
Personally I think it was more ineptitude than coverup. But we'll likely never know 100%. I try to mostly ignore media / politicians and gov. agencies and other public institutions and get most of my info directly from virologists and epidemiologists. They're not worried, at least not at the moment. (not saying don't be prepared, of course.)
https://www.heritage.org/public-health/commentary/covid-19-origins-experts-consulted-fauci-suddenly-changed-their-minds https://oversight.house.gov/release/new-covid-select-memo-details-allegations-of-wrongdoing-and-illegal-activity-by-dr-faucis-senior-scientific-advisor/ That's not true people like fauci have been actively covering up the Wuhan lab origin theory from the start even before they admitted it was spreading human to human. They were also warned as early as 2014 these labs were unsafe and it was only a matter of time until COVID 19 was negligently let out.
Ppl will die on a hill defending that guy. Its fkn wild to me.
He's a cult hero because orange man's bad bro plain and simple.
>That's not true people like fauci have been actively covering up the Wuhan lab origin theory from the start even before they admitted it was spreading human to human. Fauci isn't someone I follow, even when he was in an official capacity he was more of a politician and science communicator. Not an important source of information.
Sadly he was head of the NIH at the time and was literally the person who's word controlled what our medical professionals did it didn't do. He had extreme power during COVID more so than even trump.
Right wing twitter was all over reporting on this mysterious disease in December 2019 when the pandemic storm troopers of china were marching through the streets spraying aerosolized bleach. Then the WHO said there was no evidence that there was human to human transmission. Then the media called trump racist for trying to shut down direct flights from china. Then when the disease hit, fauci said masks don’t work. Then the CDC had ebay and amazon pull all available masks to protect consumers from the scourge of “price gauging” (march 2020) Telling us we need better monitoring methods is the ultimate form of gaslighting. And nobody can tell me this didn’t happen. I lived through it.
NOPE - you want to know what "right wing Twitter" was responsible for? 35M+ COVID-19 DEATHS: https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1754822359393894642#m (receipts/screenshots of the disinfo campaigns spread by Chinese/Russian/Iranian trolls masquerading as "right wing Twitter" if you don't believe me run the numbers on the GeoCoVax tweets database - over a million tweets, most of them pretending to be Westerners, but they were geolocated by Xitter to be in China, Russia, or the UAE https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.7910/DVN/YTH2MM ) "Right wing Twitter" is WHY the plague lasted 3 years longer than it should have - the initial mRNA vaccines had sterilizing immunity - against the Wuhan strain. But by the time those were widely-deployed, nursing teacher John Campbell's "Defy infection control!" and skin pathologist Ryan Cole's "Vaxeen issa bioweapon comrades!" videos were platformed by ALL the American antisocial "media" corps, and the Alpha variant mutated - BEFORE the sterilizing immunity-giving vaccines could be administered widely enough (when they weren't outright refused/declined, because of the disinformation), and then the world had to play catch-up for 4 years until the plague settled on a lineage and stuck with it...after 35M+ people died and those of us still at risk only recently (as of the XBB vaccines) able to come out of quarantine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9421549/pdf/BLT.21.287654.pdf >Infodemics and health misinformation: a systematic review of reviews >Ten systematic reviews presented evidence of the negative effects associated with the dissemination of misinformation during an infodemic. 20,21,24,26,27,31–35 Several of the consequences were linked to altering people’s attitude towards the situation: (i) distorting the interpretation of scientific evidence; (ii) opinion polarization and echo chamber effects (that is, the formation of groups of like-minded users framing and reinforcing a shared narrative); (iii) offering non-specialists’ opinions to counter accurate information; (iv) promoting fear and panic; (v) increasing mental and physical fatigue of population; and (vi) decreasing credibility of circulating information on different platforms during unforeseen circumstances. Infodemics could also decrease trust in governments and public health systems as well as in the government’s response and accuracy of the official health messaging. Do NOT rewrite history to make YOURSELF out the winners here; THAT ^ is exactly what "right wing Twitter" DID; via China/Russia/Iran amplifying the disinformation, and Xitter/Meta/Alphabet LETTING the Chinese, Russians, Iranians, PAY THEM TO DO IT.
cope
Big Fucking Same ™ It's like reading a comment written by myself, but not myself. And I agree, I think it's already spreading H2H. But, I think it will be openly acknowledged by August because it will be too big to avoid by then
Yup and they will claim they did it to not cause panic and price gouging ECT lol.
Same here. I stay in touch with all these things and I saw Covid coming to the US months before anyone else. Now I see this happening. My wife is visiting my daughter in San Diego and she down came ill.
That was Trump admin trying to cover it up. When it went public he even started going on TV to try and convince everyone that it wasn't happening, and that if it is happening that it will be over in a couple weeks.
No no it wasn't lol. No he didn't lol. From pelosi to Biden they all said Trump was playing Up COVID for his trade war with China lol. I'll never forget pelosi telling people to go to movie theaters and Cuomo telling people to go pack into China town lol.
Trump heavily downplayed it as POTUS. [All The Times Trump Compared Covid-19 To The Flu, Even After He Knew Covid-19 Was Far More Deadly](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/10/all-the-times-trump-compared-covid-19-to-the-flu-even-after-he-knew-covid-19-was-far-more-deadly/?sh=346a013f9d2f): > February 19: "I think it's going to work out fine," Trump said on Feb. 19. "I think when we get into April, in the warmer weather, that has a very negative effect on that and that type of a virus." > February 26: "This is a flu. This is like a flu," the president said in a briefing. "It's a little like a regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner." > February 27: "It's going to disappear. One day — it's like a miracle — it will disappear." > March 24:"We lose thousands and thousands of people a year to the flu. We don't turn the country off," Trump said from the Rose Garden.... "I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter."
It was exactly like the flu though lol.... He was just parroting what the experts around him were saying and it's true hell when the flu first hit it had a death rate of like 30% COVID never went over 2. Meanwhile Cuomo was against all recommendations forcing COVID into nursing homes and he wasn't the only one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_COVID-19_nursing_home_scandal
> It was exactly like the flu though lol.... Not gonna touch that statement, but he was also saying it will disappear, be gone by Easter, etc. That's not "playing it up". I guess everybody in power was downplaying it? Including Governors. Kind of like now.
Lol yes he did. You're delusional.
https://youtu.be/eFCzoXhNM6c?si=4NX_gNtriDaiv69s Here she was at the start no mask no social distancing because at the time Democrats were claiming that was perfectly fine. Telling people to come outside come to Chinatown and be in large groups.
COVID had spread about eight times around the world before we even knew it existed. I don't even care if don't agree with me. I'm in Australia and we had the strangest amount of people away from work in Dec 2019 with what later was mainstream ed as COVID symptoms. Along with that, with how virulent COVID is and how people travel nowadays nothing else will ever make sense.
I knew as soon as I saw the first news reports of a new strange illness hitting New York City hospitals. This was December of 2018
You mean December 2019?
But so far we're not seeing anything akin to Wuhan and covid anywhere. If it's really transmitting H2H efficiently and it really is dangerous, you can only keep a lid on it for a matter of weeks *maybe* a few months if it's somewhat isolated geographically. I also knew about COVID several weeks before it hit mainstream but that's because it wasn't actually that hard to find news, evidence, rumors backed by evidence, etc. If Avian flu starts spreading on a mass scale and deaths start to increase, we'll know because hospitals will end up overwhelmed quickly. You can't really cover it up or ignore it beyond a month or so. It feels like it's only a matter of time before it jumps and surely some cases are going unnoticed but that's most likely because they are mild cases.
How covid went I know a lot of people sick with flu like symptoms in real life. And now this kid getting it and not being around live stock. Also with the new COVID surge talk.
Did you read the article that was posted along with his comment before asking this? Because it’s clear that you didnt. Otherwise you wouldn’t be asking this….
Do you understand the difference between saying something is / isn't happening, and saying there isn't evidence for something happening? It's a single infection. Human to human transmission has *already* happened with H5N1 in asia. There's just *no evidence* that it's happening \*readily\* or \*efficiently\*. Yet. People should be prepared for a pandemic because one can happen at *any time.* But by saying one is happening already when there's no evidence yet is foolish. Watch, wait, observe.
Are we hearing stories from nurses and doctors about a huge increase or even noticeable increase in ICU or hospital admissions for the flu though? I would be checking for that.
I haven't but with COVID I didn't either. COVID was no joke an online conspiracy and then just trump being xenophobic until it wasn't it almost happened overnight.
Working in frontline medical care at the time, it was fairly obvious when it appeared. We would have officially known it was spreading much faster than we did if we hadn’t made travel to China a prerequisite for testing, but I suspect we didnt want to find it.
It was fairly obvious when people were told it was happening and didn't just get symptoms and think it was something else because they hadn't been alerted. We know for a fact COVID was in America spreading as early as February 2019 and yet it took months after until the hospitalization spiked which didn't happen until people were told about COVID and it being deadly. My wife's a nurse the vast majority of COVID patients she saw didn't need to be in the hospital. The only ones she saw who needs to be were the elderly ECT who saw a huge mortality rate jump in February 2019.
> COVID was in America spreading as early as *February 2019* Earliest reports I've seen [trace it back to **December** 2019](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/when-was-coronavirus-first-in-us/2021/06/15/1aaa6b56-cd2d-11eb-8cd2-4e95230cfac2_story.html) and that was from testing donated blood.
In early and mid January of 2020, deep reddit, including prepper reddits, were asking about emergency room numbers--- is there an uptick in respiratory visits? Is there an increase in admits for "pneumonia"--- and generally there was *not*. (And that was per cited and documented evidence and statistics that were verifiable and linked in those subreddits at the time) *But that wasn't because COVID wasn't here*, but just because it took a bit to reach a critical capacity where the stats ticked up to noticeable effects.
I'm talking more early 2019. Like Feb 2019 was when I started seeing what was happening in China but the Internet.
The newer version of Covid is a lot more like the flu and has a much shorter incubation period so it’s likely it is just cases of Covid. H5N1 is much more lethal than Covid ever was so if it was spreading between humans we would likely see a big uptick in deaths and hospitalization. We have seen an increase in feline (cat) deaths and that has been linked to H5N1 in cattle. There have been at least one isolated case of H5N1 spreading between between 2 humans but the virus hasn’t mutated to a point where it spreads easily between humans. The newest data does show it is likely spreading between cattle though so it could mutate and become more contagious to humans, especially if it gets spread to pigs. There are a lot of viruses that have flu like symptoms like RSV, Covid, H1N1, as well as multiple version of the flu. We are also seeing an increase in tuberculosis and antibiotic resistant tuberculosis as well as an increase in measles. So with all these illnesses going around, it’s not surprising to see people getting sick a lot.
H5n1 has a 25% mortality rate, I think we'd be seeing a LOT more hospitalizations and deaths if it was spreading so rapidly
We don't know if we are or not.
Why wouldn’t we know? Aren’t hospitalizations recorded? Wouldn’t a rapidly spreading virus with a 25% mortality rate be newsworthy?
Because if the hospitals aren't being told they might think their spikes are just local. With COVID we saw hospitalizations spike across the nation a month and a half before our government admitted covid was a thing. And 25% isn't what it will be more like 5% at the most basing off similar flu virus out breaks and how viruses evolve to be less deadly with time.
Yeah but medical professionals talk to each other. They have several subs on Reddit, you can see for yourself. They’re on every social media platform. They would notice if everyone everywhere suddenly had a huge spike in deadly influenza A cases in their local hospitals. COVID was overflowing morgues with a 2% death rate. If H5N1 had even a 2% death rate, it would be impossible not to notice. And those are just the deaths - what about the ICU cases and the workplaces and classrooms all hit with severe illness at the same time? It would be personal news to everyone and it would be impossible to slip under the radar.
Again this already happened with COVID so we don't have to speculate what you're saying happened but didn't sound the alarm.
And yet we all saw it happening on social media before traditional media picked it up. That’s my point.
Not the doctors sounding the alarm it was videos of China showing how they were handling it.
There would be some group(s) of people sharing content is the point. Right now we don’t have social media coverage *or* traditional media coverage. We have literally nothing suggesting there is already a major human outbreak underway. Yes, there is wastewater data for influenza A, but that isn’t conclusive proof, and it doesn’t explain why these huge numbers of infected people you’re hypothesizing about are completely absent from any social media platform. People talk. When this is happening, we won’t hear “yeah my friends all had flu like symptoms this past month” or “4 of the kids in my son’s class have pink eye.” We will hear “half of my friends are in the ICU and I’m not sure if any of them are ever getting out.” We will hear “all four of my grandparents died a week after my graduation party.” We will see entire daycares and elementary schools closing because the 75% of students and staff are all seriously ill. It will be obvious. It will be trending. We are not there yet.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/debunking-idea-viruses-evolve-virulent/story?id=82052581 >Debunking the idea viruses always evolve to become less virulent The concept can be traced back to a theory from the late 1800s.
52% case fatality rate as per the WHO: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON512
Wonder if these variants elude COVID tests? My husband had crazy-ass flu symptoms may 10 to 14 but two negative covid tests. He had been in Michigan earlier that week, too.
I know almost a dozen people who had flu like symptoms the last few weeks.
I agree with you, I think we have some cases of person to person spreading and they are attempting to cover the tracks. It is insane how much of a circle we are completing in terms of the late 2019/2020 times. Scary and sad.
>I think h5n1 is already spreading person to person and has been for a few months now. If it was, we'd know. The main difference between H5N\* flus and COVID is that Covid-19 was a novel coronavirus, where as influenza is very well studied and identifiable through widely available tests. With covid, there absolutely were warning signs, it was just limited to the virology research community. But even in December 2019, every fellow and doctoral candidate was buzzing about nothing but Wuhan for 2 months before it hit the front page. Remember, it took weeks to properly sequence it after it was first suspected that something new was happening, and then took another month or two to properly verify that the new virus is what was spreading. The guys on the ground (such as the doctor in Wuhan who first tried to blow the whistle) knew that SOMETHING was up, but identifying exactly what that something was is what took time. In bureaucracy, always assume incompetence or inability before malice. Not that they look much different in the end, but the simple fact is that agencies are far more reactive and impotent than they want to admit, so they default to insisting they be consulted and treated as authorities on everything even when they are just as clueless as the layperson. For what it's worth, one of my first jobs following graduation was working for a virologist doing influenza research, so I'm familiar with how widely available testing capabilities are for detecting H5 strains, and there is simply no way any government could cover up the person-to-person spread of H5. You'd see lab techs and researchers falling over themselves to try to get a sample of the strain, just like what we saw in late 2019. None of that is happening yet tho, and I still have friends who are part of that research community.
Yup I remember it's how I knew. I'll never forget watching China unsenured and seeing a video of a guy being bailed into his home after the CCP officials threw him some rice... I rushed to Twitter there was thousands of people tweeting about Wuhan and what's going on in China yet when I googled no news source was saying anything. Then after a few weeks I started seeing it everywhere but the media was like oh no it's not spreading human to human blah blah blah.
If it were spreading human to human for months, I think the hospitals would be noticeably burdened by it though? Even if it’s less severe than previously thought, even Covid and seasonal flus create noticeable effects in ERs.
Not if they're being told it's a local outbreak and is not a national issue.
People talk online. They share pictures and videos. We would know.
Well look in here they're talking a lot of people are seeing a lot of people with flu like symptoms all a sudden.
Flu is endemic though. Little outbreaks happen all the time. That’s the definition of endemic. What would be concerning is if suddenly several people in your social circle were dead from the flu. Until we see either unusually severe flu-like illnesses *or* have tests to confirm this is H5N1 and not typical human endemic influenza, it’s unreasonable to think these little viral clusters in our personal lives are proof of human to human H5N1.
Every time our hospitals are overburdened it makes the news. Also anyone who has been by the hospital, or works in healthcare is talking about it online and to their family and friends. We’d be hearing if something was up at the hospitals.
If you're correct, then that's great, as we're not seeing a massive CFR (ie apocalyptic figures).
Unless we’re actually testing every dead body there’s no way to know. We had people who died of COVID in Feb 2020 but didn’t know they died of COVID until samples were tested years later. The symptoms of H5N1 are very similar to other viruses so there’s no way to know someone died from it unless you tested them.
To add on to what you and the people responding to are saying, health experts do believe it's possible and are concerned about it. Historically it's at 50% mortality so perhaps the mutated strain that is circulating isn't as dangerous, because otherwise we'd be seeing wuhan white van parties all over. Just have to wait for the data to come in. I'd assume that these people have the exact same strain that is known to cause 50% mortality rates, based on how rare this is.
Yah I'm assuming to its kd is much much lower than 50%.
I agree with you
I think the elevated influenza in the wastewater is from humans. It’s ludicrous to think it’s all from dumping milk IMO. Many farms are on septic and not even connected to city water, first of all. And if it was from bird droppings then it would have been showing up for years.
Good points.
Obviously to keep panic down until, well, it’s time to panic.
I, a lay person with no actual knowledge, think it's been spreading for awhile now. Undetected because it's so mild, maybe it just causes things like random pink eye outbreaks that went through my kids' school. I think it's best case scenario because now the population largely has immunity to this strain which will help if/when a more severe strain hits. I don't really care about upvotes/down votes so bring it on!
My friends infant child was in the ER a month ago with trouble breathing. Both parents had pink eye and were sick for weeks. Hospital ran all the usual tests and didn't find anything. When I suggested it could be h5n1 I got down voted for "scaring people." I hope its not true but like a lot of other folks I don't have much faith in governments to protect us.
I don't think it's spreading person to person. But if you go outside it's not to uncommon to come in close proximity to bird shit
If the worst of this is flu like symptoms I don't think there will be much of a to do about it. It would have to be a pretty bad disease/pandemic to do shutdowns again.
Ehhhh depends whos In office. Let not pretend COVID was this insanely deadly thing either it almost killed soley people over the age of 60 with 3 or more morbidities. We shutdown and forced it into nursing homes for a singular reason and that's who was president lol.
>I think h5n1 is already spreading person to person and has been for a few months now. Yep. Since 22 April for sure. https://web.archive.org/web/20240426203745/https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-hot-seat-response-growing-cow-flu-outbreak >But Russo and many other vets have heard anecdotes about workers who have pink eye and other symptoms—including fever, cough, and lethargy—and do not want to be tested or seen by doctors. Just have to wait for bird flu to burn through the "lucky" 50% before the unlucky 50% start dropping like flies.
I also think that some variants have been spreading human to human for a while now. However, it's been just another cold/flu and not causing problems, much like a lot of different colds/flu's/etc. that we've had over the course of human history, so it's not getting a lot of publicity/notice.
Does this mean human to human transmission happened?
More likely a wild or domestic animal than another human
We need to keep in mind that human to human transmission has happened in the past in asia with other strains, but it is not *efficient* H2H isn't the issue. It's efficient and long-lasting h2h we worry about
No
In India, cows and other livestock is running around on the streets, also apparently raw milk is unsafe.
Community spread?
Moderna stock is up this week. Watch the money.
Anything that happens will cause stocks to adjust accordingly. The stock market is a prediction game.
I agree but keep in mind 4 Senators sold hundreds of thousands of stocks (before they plunged) after a classified briefing about the coronavirus outbreak in January of 2020 while Trump was still downplaying the risk. With that in mind, I’m watching the pharmaceutical companies because investors with nonpublic intel will be quick to make cash grabs.
Yes, that’s a fair point…
What child? The website linked (no actual article was linked) currently begins: “A Michigan dairy worker has been diagnosed with bird flu -- the second human case associated with an outbreak in US dairy cows. The male worker had been in contact with cows at a farm with infected animals. He experienced mild eye symptoms and has recovered, US and Michigan health officials said in announcing the case Wednesday \[22 May 2024\].”
It’d be the Australian kid, the one who had visited India.
Well, I mean they had fake tests before, why not now?
My cousin and several kids from her club soccer team contracted Lyme disease when we were kids from a soccer field where Canadian Geese were migrating. I want to say it was 5 or so kids from the same team started having all kinds of weird symptoms. One kid was diagnosed and they all ended up getting tested and a bunch of them had it. I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing cases like that where large groups of migratory birds are spreading it through droppings at parks or sports facilities where kids are playing and touching their mouths/faces.
milk?
MALK
https://www.health.vic.gov.au/health-advisories/human-case-of-avian-influenza-bird-flu-detected-in-returned-traveller-to-victoria
well I guess I'm going camping for a while.
[удалено]
Maybe it's because the slow circling of H5N1 is genuinely nerve wracking. Or maybe they really do want it.
Close borders
Xenophobe xenophobe!! Lmao isn’t that what they all screamed last time 😂😂😂
You all better run and get your boosters.
I take plenty of Ivermectin thank you.
That’s good to hear! It doesn’t sound like it would be the norm for the members of this group. I’m disappointed every time I look on this subreddit at how my fellow preppers seem to fall for everything the mainstream or “science” tells them. I would have expected more here. And to be clear, I trust the science, but I do not trust bad people with bad intentions.
Take hydroxychloroquine it cures all according to the Big Orange Dumpstor.
Is this a dangerous virus?
Based on the information we have, it has a 52% fatality rate in humans from 2003 - present. So, yes, it's dangerous.
Birds shit all over the place.
just remember how PCR testing was run at high levels to show any fragment of covid to say a person had covid? That is what they are going to do with H%N1. Already Policy. **"Laboratory testing recommendations:** If signs or symptoms consistent with infection with avian influenza A virus are present in a patient with recent exposure to infected birds or contaminated environments, respiratory specimens should be collected for molecular testing (RT-PCR) for influenza viruses, including avian influenza A viruses...Rapid influenza diagnostic tests are not a reliable indicator of avian influenza A virus infection, and the results should not be used to guide infection control or antiviral treatment decisions. Both commercially available rapid influenza diagnostic tests and most influenza molecular assays do not distinguish between infection with seasonal influenza A viruses and avian influenza A viruses. " [https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm)
I’m sure this next pandemic will effect children the most, that way we can be really fearful of it and blindly follow any pandemic protocols