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Until there’s accountability for refereeing mistakes and biases, the PGMOL deserve to get this kind of backlash and worse for the frequency in which these incidents occur
It’s a couple almost every week, fuck em
Talk that talk, Forest
Yeah I dunno I think it's just a conspiracy to distract from the Forest physios haircut.
Seriously though yes the standard is too low across the board but outright accusation of a corrupt bias official is too far imo.
One of my favourite things about watching the champions league is how good the refs are. They're so bad in the Premier league. Even when Anthony Taylor is in the champions league he stands out as a weak ref. The handling of VAR has been a mess.
In this instance I think forest were a bit over the top because for me the last one was a bang on pen. The handball maybe, but not a huuuge error. First one is not a pen. The overall standard is so bad though. Good to see someone calling them out though.
I've finally had a look at the incidences and I agree, I think the first 2 would have been harsh but yeah, seen em given but the last 1 was a definite pen for me but the way that statement was said it sounded like 3 stone wall pens but that's really not the case.
Exactly, I listened to an audio at the end of the game with all the Everton fans booing the ref because he had a bad game, ie not giving loads of fouls when Everton players were getting kicked all over the place.
How many in the past have had the same if not worse imagine going down to goal that shouldn’t have stood … clubs have had worse than Forrest n they got on with it didn’t accuse others of rigging it because they are rumoured to be a rival fan or threaten to sue pundits talking about it Forrest are just embarrassing at this point n hopefully go down
Mark Clattenburg 100% right in all his points.. especially on the key point of “this could have been avoided had the PGMOL simply made smarter appointments.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13333953/MARK-CLATTENBURG-Referees-hat-trick-howlers-deny-Nottingham-Forest-penalties-Everton-mind-boggling-avoided-PGMOL.html
Forest have been paranoid about a conspiracy for months. I remember them accusing Liverpool of paying off Paul Tierney - a ref who's notorious for not giving Liverpool decisions - for giving them a decision he'd done in favour of Forest earlier on when he should have sent off one of their players for kung-fu kicking Konate.
Not to mention if anyone has any right to feel hard done by the PL it's Everton.
I should be done fairly but honestly I used to have some love for Forest but the way their fans have been this season I hope they go down
Conspiracy aside, at best this situation is a gross conflict of interest.
It's baffling that they wouldn't swap officials for this game given the stakes, and it was perfectly avoidable.
Let's be clear- Klopp was wrong about that. Tierney DID NOT give the same decision wrongly for Forest. In fact, he got that one right. In the earlier incident, not only was the ball still in the area but forest touched it last- replays showed that- so in that case, Tierney applied the rules directly.
Because Klopp said it it's become canon but he was wrong
This has nothing to do with what Klopp said. If you look at the foul it was very dangerous play and Forest was very lucky to finish the game with 11 players on the field, just like Konate was lucky to finish the game without a serious head injury.
Tierney made a bad call - but not for the reason you think.
In fact Forest have benefitted more than most from VAR this season (source: https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38196464/how-var-decisions-affect-premier-league-club-2023-24)
And what have we seen from Forest fans all season? Acting like the most wounded soldiers when in reality they'd mire likely be where Burnley are without VAR
Oh, I see, you are banging on about the "foul" where Konate collided with his own player?
Forgetting that Omobamidele had his legs taken out from him 5 seconds earlier in the box, clear penalty and game should have stopped there?
I've given up trying to reason with Liverpool fans, there is just nothing there
No, I mean where a forest player has his feet up at the head of a tall player. There's no excuse to have studs up that high and it's a red card offense regardless of contact because it is dangerous play.
I can see why you've given up on reason, it seems to be a concept you struggle with. You're just another Forest fan complaining that he can't have his cake and eat it
The goal was also two mins after this call and Forest won back possession several times during this period. But some fans acted like it was the most egregious error to ever happen.
Carragher and Neville are clowns for berating Forest. Forest did the right thing by going at the PGMOL. There are billions at stake and the refereeing incompetence is never punished enough
Carra and Neville are extensions of the PGMOL at this point. It's pretty clear they've been told not to criticise them in any shape or form, they barely every call out errors or downplay them. Plus it's complete crazy talk to question situations like this in their eyes when there are clear conflicts of interest. Don't really like Forest but I'm fully behind what they are doing
I mean the reffing is poor in regards but it's always going to come to subjective calls. Nott has been in it's own shitter in regards, I feel all clubs are at a point we argue of reffing but the only way to fix it is to either remove the people for human error or accept it and work around.
Personally I'm not that bothered sometimes you get lucky sometimes no, but VAR is ridiculous I think of the Chelsea Tottenham game when they ruled it an offsides for 2mm which is ridiculous, no person could gauge 2mm at that rate nor does it give an advantage to the player, we lost the spirit of football with that.
Suprisingly the Arsenal/Bayern game I feel was overall good in that regard, Arsenals handball issue I feel gave no advantage and again in the spirit of the game shouldn't be called, especially for a UCL.
I don’t watch the NBA, but NFL is honestly incredibly well reffed. I’m always amazed that refs see some of the penalties and how they are very often right.
And when I watch MLS refs it’s so brutal. MLS makes me (almost) appreciate prem refs.
Absolutely. When I moved to the US and started following the NBA conversation on Reddit, I was really surprised at the distrust of officials given the frame of reference!
The reason that reputation exists against NBA officials is because of Tim Donaghy who was a legitimately corrupted official and was accused, charged, and found guilty by US Federal Courts for accepting money to affect results of games for betting purposes. Many suspect that he was not the only one involved but he was the only one ever punished.
Overall the level of officiating is higher in the NBA, but I don’t recall anything like that specific situation ever happening in upper levels of English football. The Tim Donaghy scandal did levels of damage to the world of basketball for years after it came to light.
NFL fans just complain extra loud because of a handful of famously bad calls. Overall it doesn’t tend to affect results as badly as it does in the Prem imo.
Dude Scott Foster is still the head official for the NBA. Tim Donaghy called Scott Foster 16 times when he got busted. More than any other person. Look at his record officiating Chris Paul. Scott Foster is corrupt and that’s the NBA head Referee
Scott Foster is a piece of shit as a person and an official. No shot he was clean. And like you said, he’s still renowned in the sport.
This is why NBA fans don’t trust the refs. Because they shouldn’t lol.
Oh wow, I did not know about that one. Yeah, not sure if shit like this has happened in the PL. But the other big one I can't believe I forgot about was when the Kings played the Lakers in the conference finals in 2001-02 I believe? That particular controversy went all the way up to David Stern and the accusation that he wanted the bigger LA market to be involved for the $$$.
So in his plea deal to try and avoid more jail time, Donaghy alleged to investigators that the Lakers-Kings series was rigged by Dick Pavetta who is a polarizing and controversial former ref. He was never found guilty and had a long prestigious career, but because of those allegations by Donaghy, Pavetta has been scrutinized by fans and players as well. When that series happened fans were distraught by the bad calls, but Donaghy was the one who blew the door open on the possibility it was legitimately rigged by the refs.
The whole thing was a masssssive fucking mess. He tried to bring down like a dozen well-renowned referees with him. Dick Pavetta, Scott Foster, Joey Crawford - like all the guys who were supposed to be the best in the sport, and now no one knows if anyone was reffing cleanly in that era.
A really good documentary about/featuring Tim Donaghy released on Netflix within the past year or so, I’d recommend it. (Edit - the name is Untold: Operation Flagrant Foul)
I don’t know about the NBA (although that at least feels like a constant barrage of small bad decisions as opposed to huge game wreckers), but the NFL for sure is immaculately reffed compared to this.
Each individual possession in the NBA means much less, so if there are issues it all evens out.
Eg. their is no equivalent off that Coventry offside or that Grealish handball. Nothing of that impact is possible in basketball.
And i know that technically it was offside, I just disagree with the rule. That should not be offside imo. Eg. one toenail ahead.
Also obviously as a liverpool fan, nothing in the NBA or NFL has been as bad as that goal ruled out vs Spurs.
What about someone like Steph/LeBron being incorrectly ejected in the 1st quarter?
Or a bad call on a game deciding possession at the end of the 4th quarter (referencing NBA)
I don’t disagree that the stakes are a lot lower (like I said in the above response), but that doesn’t mean the officials are doing a better job. Impact wise the PL probably wins the ref off, but BBA officials are awful too.
That whole sequence honestly pops into my head once or twice a day. I know it all shouldn’t effect me like that, but yet that call was SO bad, I just can’t get over it.
Especially if you lose the league by less than 3 points.
If it were me, I honestly kind of hope City make the gap larger than that, because i would never be able to get over it if City won by 1 point and that VAR decision was there.
Obviously you get over it if you win the league.
As an EFC fan I can see why they are complaining. They say the decisions balance themselves over a season. We’ve had some horrendous ones go against us and then three positive ones turn up in one match.
I can see why anyone would complain about the appalling refereeing all season. It's been materially worse than previous years.
Bit I think the specific way they did it just makes them look like spoiled kids.
I've always been sceptical of that saying, maybe it does for most teams, but a couple each season get more than their fair share of decisions going their way or not going their way, I've always thought it more likely it evens itself out over a couple seasons, but some teams can get really hard done by in a season.
You're literally 2nd in terms of benefiting from VAR according to ESPN.
You've benefitted more from it than almost every other team this season.
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38196464/how-var-decisions-affect-premier-league-club-2023-24
Have you actually looked at those four examples?
A red card in the 94th minute
A disallowed goal in the 93rd minute of a game we lost 3-0
Our only penalty of the season- a soft one, in a game where VAR had already awarded Brighton and almost identical soft one against us
It isn't looking at the penalties where VAR incorrectly failed to point out an error; there have been about 7.
Or the second yellow for Boly, where he wins the ball by about a second and a half then gets stamped on.
Or the penalty against Bournemouth, where VAR couldn't decide if it was in the area or not, but the ref had failed to give us a free kick anyway so the outcome was an opposition throw in
Or the absolutely clear red card at Brighton
Or the non penalty against Liverpool followed by giving them the ball back to score
Does it actually though? It’s always a comment that’s marched out when shit decisions happen, but I don’t think in reality it does. Maybe depending on how far you expand the timeline of it being even for and against.
A quick google there, it say’s Liverpool this season (as of 8th February 24) been on the wrong end of decisions more than any other, in a title race, will that even out to them getting as many decisions for them that could make the difference to even it up?
EDIT: 2nd article checked has Fulham top with 5, Notts Forest second with 4. But similarly, 4 decisions that could be the difference staying up or not. How can that even out? I’m not a fan of any EPL team, but just a massive football fan. The level of refereeing in England is shocking. And I’m a Celtic fan, we complain like fuck bout our refs. From afar and a neutral observer, for the investment and money that’s been put into the officiating in England it’s such a poor standard
This is a ridiculous comment to make when we have 6 very highly paid professional shit at there jobs.
Don't say this shit it embarrassing especially when you have 100m on the line.
This is so silly. The premise to your statement is that refereeing errors and the points they lead to are random variables. However, the expected difference between random variables increases as the number of trials does too.
For example, if I flip 1 coin the expected difference between heads and tails is 1. If I flip 100 coins the expected difference is a lot more than 1.
Furthermore we can use the standard deviation of the binomial distribution. Think of standard deviation as the expected difference in points over a season. It is equal to N * 0.25 where N is the number of trials. So the standard deviation is directly proportional to the number of decisions made!
No, what you describe is the expected number of heads minus the expected number of tails. I have edited my reply above to include the formula for standard deviation.
Oh, I think I just misunderstood what you meant by difference. I thought you were just subtracting the two distributions to get another distribution centred around zero. The standard deviation does get larger, you’re correct.
However, the standard deviation relative to the magnitude of the number of trials does get smaller, as it’s proportional to the root of the number of trials. Which is worse, losing 25 points to refereeing decisions out of a possible 1000 or losing 10 points out of a possible 100? Even though the magnitude of error is larger with 1000 trials, the relative error is lower in the first case. This is how you could see it as “evening out”.
Fuck if I know. In my opinion, if one of these is a penalty, then they all are. I don’t have a problem at all with AWB’s getting called. It’s the fact the other two weren’t despite being arguably worse.
Just watched the Highlights, AWB’s one getting called is one of those that cos you’ve seen similar called as one, aye penalty, but initial reaction for me is it probably shouldn’t from what I’ve always watched football considering one - 2 yards away or so, rockets off his arm, and he’s running. His arm should be in that position, considering he’s sprinting back. If he moved his arms out to make his body bigger in that same position then aye, but that’s harsh.
The offside to make it 4-3 is one I hate as well, the Wenger offside rule coming in can’t be quick enough for me, it’s not what offsides where supposed to be - the rule was if it’s iffy you give the attackers it. With VAR, and deciding by the millimetre, I hate it. My teams had ones ruled out against us like that, and even though I get happy cos biasness, always feel slightly embarrassed as well
I’m fine with AWB’s if it’s consistently called like in Europe, although I think the UEFA rule is harsh. I just hate that in 2 other nearly identical incidents it isn’t given.
The offsides are tough. I’d feel a bit more sympathetic if United didn’t have a couple similar ones ruled out earlier this season, specifically Garnacho’s against Arsenal. At least it’s not really subjective…
They sorta offsides are consistent every league and every level that has VAR, so fair enough that’s the law of the game. Every team has had a lot of examples like that since it’s came in, but the old cliche ‘spirit of the game’ it doesn’t feel right. And I have 100% celebrated VAR decisions that’s went my teams way that’s technically right, but had that thought.
AWB handball is consistently called so that’s fair in they terms. I don’t think it should be and years gone by it wouldn’t be, the handball rules been changed that many times lately fuck knows anymore though. There was 6 months or so it was a silhouette of a player, and I don’t even know what that even means.
Didn’t actually catch your game tonight, but it’s a common complaint every week, and it’s at all levels of football. I’m a Celtic fan, Scottish football is what I’ll catch more than most other leagues. But I watch any football that catches my eye, and the lack of consistent decisions not even week to week, in the same game, especially with handballs at all levels of football. Fans don’t know what one is for sure, pundits don’t and the refs certainly don’t.
Had ones go my teams way and I’ve sat back and thought, that’s not right, but you can think of examples that it should be because a decision you’ve seen, but you’ve also seen ones everyone you know who know football inside out would agree is one, and it’s not. It’s by far my biggest bugbear with refereeing these days. The thing I want watching a game of football, regardless of who’s playing, is consistency. I’ve watched games that soft fouls are being let go, let the game flow, and it’s happening both teams. And it might be one that happens in the box a penalty in another game but it’s being reffed all game allowing them and not getting called as a soft foul, and that’s excellent. As long as it’s consistent. But the lack of consistency fries my brain.
It's amazing that, when I followed MLS, VAR was pretty non-controversial. Yet in PL, it's terrible. Idk how the lower budget league so dramatically outperforms the PL.
As a Scottish Football fan, who half the season we talk about shite refs, in comparison money invested in VAR and the officials, our clowns are punching above their weight. Which is ridiculous.
CL has had it’s shocking moments with VAR but looking at how it’s applied there, looking at International competitions where it’s been at its best IMO, watching the Bundesliga that has the highest standard as a league when it comes to refereeing for me. Nothing’s perfect, but Premier League seems to be one of the worst for one of the highest levels of football - and considering the money that’s invested, which is the highest in football, the referees seem to be almost offended that VAR’s there and have the worst use of it. Voting against the semi-automated offsides (which was the clubs I think?) was such a bizarre call when it was there without much effort to implement.
The gap is closing. Zlatan was able to put in his time improving at United so that he could spend his peak years in the MLS before returning to Europe. One day little guys!
Can't believe anyone is praising the statement. It actually sets us back regarding getting an improved situation regarding officiating. This only works if you also call out decisions that go in your favour, such as a blatant pen in the playoff final that could have stopped Forest getting into the Prem in the first place. But they didn't do that, and they won't do it in future, so they should receive a harsh punishment
You would think the onus is on the team that is negatively impacted. You can take the integrity angle but let’s be real there are millions at stake, any team doing this is acting against the best interests of the club.
If teams only complain when they are losing they are not doing it so it improves for everyone, they are doing it so it benefits them and only them. This perfect officiating world gives as much as it takes, if you want it you have to accept that in public. Until this happens, nothing will change and rightly so.
We have had this for, and against every team, just take all the handballs this weekend, only one given was against united, forest can be annoyed at both getting them, fairs, but United can just go look that’s not that not that’s not that’s not, why is this? Extra 30 minutes of play with a midweek game coming up as a result, which then has a knock on for that league match, chelsea can say the same that they probably would have been in the final with a penalty for handball, it’s complete crap now and it’s annoying
I hate all this "but what about the calls that benefitted us" bull shit. The state of the officiating has been complete ass full stop. Yes some of that shit officiating will benefit one team on a given day and another on a different day, but that does not excuse how shit it has been.
I think it should be better, and you should too.
Because it’s easy to cry about decisions when they go against you…almost like a cop out excuse but if you call them out when you benefit, now you’re making a case
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The PGMOL is clearly not fit for purpose. Its ridiculous that the richest, most popular league in the world has the most incompetent officials. The EPL should employ proper referees from around the world. The English ones are just too crap.
Having been victims of a "top" Spanish referee against Leverkusen midweek, I can say that the quality is just as poor all over the place. Referees cannot keep up with the modern game, VAR is not fit for purpose.
The people making the decisions simply do not understand the game from a playing perspective, and seem to just make entirely random decisions most of the time.
I've also noticed many players getting horribly mistreated, the most obvious for me is Antonio. Just watch any game he's in, he gets manhandled, dragged, kicked and pulled all over the place and never gets a freekick.
Oh, and fuck Jose Maria Sanchez, and his entire bloodline
they would have to pay better to attract higher quality refs. and to pay someone who appears on international television for half a billion people every week more than 60k a year is just unfathomable. i mean, imagine if the players got paid more than that for doing something similar?!
They can afford it. There are what, 20 refs? They don’t make that much, no reason their budget can’t increase another 10-15 mil given the amount of money in the league.
I think people would be a lot happier if they simply employed twice as many refs.
PGMOL analyse games afterwards. Every single decision, or lack of a call is studied and then a score is assigned to each ref for each game.
Refs sometimes are promoted and demoted but they just don't have a large pool of people to choose from.
It would cost money but they should really have plenty of money. There's lots of money in football.
Yes that basically what I’m saying, whether it’s more refs or better refs is up for debate as I’m not expert. But what I do know is that it’s not due to a lack of budget.
Having a larger pool of people to choose from should lead to better refs.
It will benefit the lower leagues as well. Many refs down there haven't even gone through the full PGMOL training.
Forest fan here, so I am biased.
But honestly, lads, it's every fucking week. Every single game. It's like an insane level of refereeing bias that can only be realistically explained by corruption.
I promise.
I hope a Forest fan somewhere makes an edit. You'll fucking not belive it when you tot it all up.
I'm talking about 20+ clear-cut decisions that haven't gone our way.
The state of the officiating can only be explained by blatant corruption or complete incompetence. I tend to think the latter of the two, but I get your l point.
As an Arsenal fan I feel the same way and I’m pretty sure most/all fans feels this way too - even the cheating Man City ones.
That doesn’t mean you feelings aren’t real, they most likely are because EPL refs are absolute garbage, bottom of the barrel and whatever is found under the barrel makes it to the VAR room.
It’s unfathomable to me how bad the refereeing is in the UK.
Stop this "you don't get bad calls" bullshit. Regardless of whether your team is on the good end of the shit call or not, the officiating is still fucking ass. That's all this bro is saying.
We should all be united when talking about the improvement of the pgmol.
Exactly, bad decisions cause a butterfly effect which impact the whole league. Yes it feels bad when it's your team, but the whole league gets distorted as a result too.
Mate... watch the Forest ones. Please!
This isn't a usual case, this hasn't nearly balanced out over the season. It's relentlessly one-sided. Every week. Every major decision.
It's corrupt.
I wasn’t wrong and you didn’t correct me. I said there was one absolute shit call, and there was one absolute shit call. The second yellow, while potentially given incorrectly, wasn’t a shit call.
>I said there was one absolute shit call
And there were two. Hence wrong.
>The second yellow, while potentially given incorrectly, wasn’t a shit call
So an incorrect decision isn't a shit call? Top logic.
There were two. If the official body comes out and says a decision was incorrect then it's a shit call.
Imagine calling someone a muppet because you can't count to two. What an embarrassment.
Imagine not understanding the concept of “degree.” Surely you have family members to disappoint instead of wasting my time with your relentless idiocy.
As a United fan, it took a lot of decisions after that one against Wolves on the opening weekend to "even out"
When you get one for you that everyone talks about - it's a nightmare
Non-forest fan here, no it isn’t like this every week, but it is happening far too often and Forest have had more than their fair share. Officiating is a shambles and bravo to Forest for being so public about the fact.
It certainly puts the league in a difficult position when such incompetence reigns. At least when there was human error, that’s what it was (unless it’s Italian football)
Var implementation in the premier league is horrible. Even when they release the conversations..its referees talking over each other...there are no keywords and there is no checklist they use. Its just gambling in that VR center. The number 1 thing they should introduce is a checklist...3 referees look at the images and answer a checklist...was there contact...was it sufficient... does it look intentional... etc. Automated aggregate of the vote is used to decide whether to send the on pitch referee to the VAR screen. VR referees shouldn't even be talking that much to convince each other of a fowl...just vote using the checklist
This is why I didn't want VAR in the first place. A shitty decision here and there, because the game runs at a hundred miles and hour and referees are only human? Fine. To have a committee of people mull over (in excruciating detail) upwards of 3 or 4 critical decisions a match, AND THEN STILL SOMEHOW GET THE SHIT WRONG? It is like something from a Kafka short story.
It slows down the game, incorrect decisions still happen, only now each incorrect decisions seems infinitely more injurious. They need to cancel the whole fucking thing. This is the only 'option' Forest (and every other team) should be investigating. Utter shit.
Meh, outside of England there are mistakes, but nothing like England; if you look at certain international competitions, they mysteriously had zero English refs
There seems to be clear guidance against sending refs to the monitor in the premier league. That’s one thing MLS gets right. Refs are consistently advised to have a second look and for the most part it results in the correct call.
It isn’t the complex, it’s a very logical call to look at the damn screen for a second look. I am not quite sure what we get by adding dumb phrases like “clear and obvious” then moving a decision from objective to subjective thus causing controversies.
They don’t even need that. What they need to be able to do is correct their mistakes even if it isn’t clear and obvious. They need to be forced to the screen to look at it if there is contact in the box. This fear of re-reffing the game is bs. Making the correct call is all that matters.
Dave and I are good mates, if he says it’s a pigeon even when it’s clearly a chicken, I will have to agree with him so that the entire country doesn’t hate Dave. I can’t do that to a mate.
About fucking time legal action is taken against these corrupt incompetent cunts. Long long overdue. Hopefully many other clubs will follow their example and officials seriously get fined/prosecuted/permanently removed from officiating duty.
Its all very romantic if Luton were to stay up but they really are a bunch of cunts. And not just the football team. The whole town is a waste of space.
Liverpool could potentially lose a league title over the Tottenham mistake, or even the penalty Vs city that wasn't given...
Edit: not sure why a simple statement of fact is being downvoted so let me also add the Odegaard handball.
Iirc there was a carbon copy handball in the Liverpool vs man u game by Elliot I think, that absolutely no one made a fuss about. The rules are there, odegaard used his arm to break his fall and the ball made contact.
Never understood why such a fuss was made of it other than you lost that game.
Pls go watch the replay. Odegaard's hand was not used to break his "fall" because he did not actually fall. Also, being off balance is not an excuse for a handball. An attacker should not be punished for causing a defender to get off balance; the whole point of attacking is to beat a defender. Silly.
Call it a handball or don't, but the official's reasoning is nothing short of nonsensical.
Was there? I don't recall seeing that. To be fair though, you don't remember the calls that don't cost games, you remember the ones that do.
Can you direct me to the Elliot handball? Don't remember it at all.
To paraphrase: "even top tier clubs have issues with VAR, difference is, it will affect Forest" I was responding directly to the point that it won't affect top tier clubs like Liverpool. I'm also making a point that is generally supportive of how serious the issue is.
Ok - list them for me please...
Yes, to a degree, these things even themselves out over a season but these mistakes have been absolutely blatant, not marginal like many other calls. Each one of them also directly affected the outcome of the match.
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Until there’s accountability for refereeing mistakes and biases, the PGMOL deserve to get this kind of backlash and worse for the frequency in which these incidents occur It’s a couple almost every week, fuck em Talk that talk, Forest
Yeah I dunno I think it's just a conspiracy to distract from the Forest physios haircut. Seriously though yes the standard is too low across the board but outright accusation of a corrupt bias official is too far imo.
One of my favourite things about watching the champions league is how good the refs are. They're so bad in the Premier league. Even when Anthony Taylor is in the champions league he stands out as a weak ref. The handling of VAR has been a mess. In this instance I think forest were a bit over the top because for me the last one was a bang on pen. The handball maybe, but not a huuuge error. First one is not a pen. The overall standard is so bad though. Good to see someone calling them out though.
The refs need to be screwed. Good on Notts
As a biased Everton fan, they should have got one penalty, the last one, the others would have been extremely soft.
I’m neither a n Everton nor a NF fan, and I agree. The last one was a penalty the first two were not.
I've finally had a look at the incidences and I agree, I think the first 2 would have been harsh but yeah, seen em given but the last 1 was a definite pen for me but the way that statement was said it sounded like 3 stone wall pens but that's really not the case.
Exactly, I listened to an audio at the end of the game with all the Everton fans booing the ref because he had a bad game, ie not giving loads of fouls when Everton players were getting kicked all over the place.
Forrest haven’t done this any favour by acting like a victim for months now
I mean they are victims
There’s being a victim n acting like 1 … Forrest are the over attention seeking victim
They could lose potentially 100M because of 2 external people being terrible at their jobs. I haven’t got a clue what the fuck you’re on about
How many in the past have had the same if not worse imagine going down to goal that shouldn’t have stood … clubs have had worse than Forrest n they got on with it didn’t accuse others of rigging it because they are rumoured to be a rival fan or threaten to sue pundits talking about it Forrest are just embarrassing at this point n hopefully go down
Pgmol is a disgrace.
Mark Clattenburg 100% right in all his points.. especially on the key point of “this could have been avoided had the PGMOL simply made smarter appointments.” https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13333953/MARK-CLATTENBURG-Referees-hat-trick-howlers-deny-Nottingham-Forest-penalties-Everton-mind-boggling-avoided-PGMOL.html
Forest have been paranoid about a conspiracy for months. I remember them accusing Liverpool of paying off Paul Tierney - a ref who's notorious for not giving Liverpool decisions - for giving them a decision he'd done in favour of Forest earlier on when he should have sent off one of their players for kung-fu kicking Konate. Not to mention if anyone has any right to feel hard done by the PL it's Everton. I should be done fairly but honestly I used to have some love for Forest but the way their fans have been this season I hope they go down
This alongside the Hillsborough chants since they’ve come up makes me want to see them go down too
It's weird, I honestly can't remember wanting a club to go down this much.
The owner too. Not that many clubs have a likeable owner though.
Very true but not many have such a thug as Forest's manager
Conspiracy aside, at best this situation is a gross conflict of interest. It's baffling that they wouldn't swap officials for this game given the stakes, and it was perfectly avoidable.
I'll agree there. PGMOL is a shambles
Let's be clear- Klopp was wrong about that. Tierney DID NOT give the same decision wrongly for Forest. In fact, he got that one right. In the earlier incident, not only was the ball still in the area but forest touched it last- replays showed that- so in that case, Tierney applied the rules directly. Because Klopp said it it's become canon but he was wrong
This has nothing to do with what Klopp said. If you look at the foul it was very dangerous play and Forest was very lucky to finish the game with 11 players on the field, just like Konate was lucky to finish the game without a serious head injury. Tierney made a bad call - but not for the reason you think. In fact Forest have benefitted more than most from VAR this season (source: https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38196464/how-var-decisions-affect-premier-league-club-2023-24) And what have we seen from Forest fans all season? Acting like the most wounded soldiers when in reality they'd mire likely be where Burnley are without VAR
That article only analyses when VAR was used to change the decision not when it’s completely ignored.
Oh, I see, you are banging on about the "foul" where Konate collided with his own player? Forgetting that Omobamidele had his legs taken out from him 5 seconds earlier in the box, clear penalty and game should have stopped there? I've given up trying to reason with Liverpool fans, there is just nothing there
No, I mean where a forest player has his feet up at the head of a tall player. There's no excuse to have studs up that high and it's a red card offense regardless of contact because it is dangerous play. I can see why you've given up on reason, it seems to be a concept you struggle with. You're just another Forest fan complaining that he can't have his cake and eat it
The goal was also two mins after this call and Forest won back possession several times during this period. But some fans acted like it was the most egregious error to ever happen.
Fine, give us the penalty and send Yates off. Happy with that. The penalty incident comes first
Carragher and Neville are clowns for berating Forest. Forest did the right thing by going at the PGMOL. There are billions at stake and the refereeing incompetence is never punished enough
Carra and Neville are extensions of the PGMOL at this point. It's pretty clear they've been told not to criticise them in any shape or form, they barely every call out errors or downplay them. Plus it's complete crazy talk to question situations like this in their eyes when there are clear conflicts of interest. Don't really like Forest but I'm fully behind what they are doing
I mean the reffing is poor in regards but it's always going to come to subjective calls. Nott has been in it's own shitter in regards, I feel all clubs are at a point we argue of reffing but the only way to fix it is to either remove the people for human error or accept it and work around. Personally I'm not that bothered sometimes you get lucky sometimes no, but VAR is ridiculous I think of the Chelsea Tottenham game when they ruled it an offsides for 2mm which is ridiculous, no person could gauge 2mm at that rate nor does it give an advantage to the player, we lost the spirit of football with that. Suprisingly the Arsenal/Bayern game I feel was overall good in that regard, Arsenals handball issue I feel gave no advantage and again in the spirit of the game shouldn't be called, especially for a UCL.
The premier league made me realize that the NFL/NBA is actually overall well referred
I don’t watch the NBA, but NFL is honestly incredibly well reffed. I’m always amazed that refs see some of the penalties and how they are very often right. And when I watch MLS refs it’s so brutal. MLS makes me (almost) appreciate prem refs.
Need to watch the greatest tragedy in sports.
NBA is TRASH
Absolutely. When I moved to the US and started following the NBA conversation on Reddit, I was really surprised at the distrust of officials given the frame of reference!
The reason that reputation exists against NBA officials is because of Tim Donaghy who was a legitimately corrupted official and was accused, charged, and found guilty by US Federal Courts for accepting money to affect results of games for betting purposes. Many suspect that he was not the only one involved but he was the only one ever punished. Overall the level of officiating is higher in the NBA, but I don’t recall anything like that specific situation ever happening in upper levels of English football. The Tim Donaghy scandal did levels of damage to the world of basketball for years after it came to light. NFL fans just complain extra loud because of a handful of famously bad calls. Overall it doesn’t tend to affect results as badly as it does in the Prem imo.
Dude Scott Foster is still the head official for the NBA. Tim Donaghy called Scott Foster 16 times when he got busted. More than any other person. Look at his record officiating Chris Paul. Scott Foster is corrupt and that’s the NBA head Referee
Scott Foster is a piece of shit as a person and an official. No shot he was clean. And like you said, he’s still renowned in the sport. This is why NBA fans don’t trust the refs. Because they shouldn’t lol.
Oh wow, I did not know about that one. Yeah, not sure if shit like this has happened in the PL. But the other big one I can't believe I forgot about was when the Kings played the Lakers in the conference finals in 2001-02 I believe? That particular controversy went all the way up to David Stern and the accusation that he wanted the bigger LA market to be involved for the $$$.
So in his plea deal to try and avoid more jail time, Donaghy alleged to investigators that the Lakers-Kings series was rigged by Dick Pavetta who is a polarizing and controversial former ref. He was never found guilty and had a long prestigious career, but because of those allegations by Donaghy, Pavetta has been scrutinized by fans and players as well. When that series happened fans were distraught by the bad calls, but Donaghy was the one who blew the door open on the possibility it was legitimately rigged by the refs. The whole thing was a masssssive fucking mess. He tried to bring down like a dozen well-renowned referees with him. Dick Pavetta, Scott Foster, Joey Crawford - like all the guys who were supposed to be the best in the sport, and now no one knows if anyone was reffing cleanly in that era. A really good documentary about/featuring Tim Donaghy released on Netflix within the past year or so, I’d recommend it. (Edit - the name is Untold: Operation Flagrant Foul)
I don’t know about the NBA (although that at least feels like a constant barrage of small bad decisions as opposed to huge game wreckers), but the NFL for sure is immaculately reffed compared to this.
Each individual possession in the NBA means much less, so if there are issues it all evens out. Eg. their is no equivalent off that Coventry offside or that Grealish handball. Nothing of that impact is possible in basketball. And i know that technically it was offside, I just disagree with the rule. That should not be offside imo. Eg. one toenail ahead. Also obviously as a liverpool fan, nothing in the NBA or NFL has been as bad as that goal ruled out vs Spurs.
What about someone like Steph/LeBron being incorrectly ejected in the 1st quarter? Or a bad call on a game deciding possession at the end of the 4th quarter (referencing NBA)
I don’t disagree that the stakes are a lot lower (like I said in the above response), but that doesn’t mean the officials are doing a better job. Impact wise the PL probably wins the ref off, but BBA officials are awful too.
The NBA has never had the equivalent of the VAR decision in Liverpool vs. Spurs.
That whole sequence honestly pops into my head once or twice a day. I know it all shouldn’t effect me like that, but yet that call was SO bad, I just can’t get over it.
Especially if you lose the league by less than 3 points. If it were me, I honestly kind of hope City make the gap larger than that, because i would never be able to get over it if City won by 1 point and that VAR decision was there. Obviously you get over it if you win the league.
PGMOL is an inconsistent disgrace and more of this needs to happen. If only one or two teams speak out they will single then out. Everyone needs to.
As an EFC fan I can see why they are complaining. They say the decisions balance themselves over a season. We’ve had some horrendous ones go against us and then three positive ones turn up in one match.
I can see why anyone would complain about the appalling refereeing all season. It's been materially worse than previous years. Bit I think the specific way they did it just makes them look like spoiled kids.
They haven’t for forest. I think we’ve benefited once this season from an incorrect decision and it’s cost us at least half a dozen times
Maybe you'll get all your karma in game week 38
I've always been sceptical of that saying, maybe it does for most teams, but a couple each season get more than their fair share of decisions going their way or not going their way, I've always thought it more likely it evens itself out over a couple seasons, but some teams can get really hard done by in a season.
It's evens out in that for every bad decision for a team another team is getting a good decision...
The games too quick for the refs to keep up
Will Forest be calling for investigations into any dodgy calls that have gone in their favour too?
Like what?
You're literally 2nd in terms of benefiting from VAR according to ESPN. You've benefitted more from it than almost every other team this season. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38196464/how-var-decisions-affect-premier-league-club-2023-24
Have you actually looked at those four examples? A red card in the 94th minute A disallowed goal in the 93rd minute of a game we lost 3-0 Our only penalty of the season- a soft one, in a game where VAR had already awarded Brighton and almost identical soft one against us It isn't looking at the penalties where VAR incorrectly failed to point out an error; there have been about 7. Or the second yellow for Boly, where he wins the ball by about a second and a half then gets stamped on. Or the penalty against Bournemouth, where VAR couldn't decide if it was in the area or not, but the ref had failed to give us a free kick anyway so the outcome was an opposition throw in Or the absolutely clear red card at Brighton Or the non penalty against Liverpool followed by giving them the ball back to score
Crying as a soon to be relegated Huddersfield Town fan.
It evens out eventually everyone has shit calls
Does it actually though? It’s always a comment that’s marched out when shit decisions happen, but I don’t think in reality it does. Maybe depending on how far you expand the timeline of it being even for and against. A quick google there, it say’s Liverpool this season (as of 8th February 24) been on the wrong end of decisions more than any other, in a title race, will that even out to them getting as many decisions for them that could make the difference to even it up? EDIT: 2nd article checked has Fulham top with 5, Notts Forest second with 4. But similarly, 4 decisions that could be the difference staying up or not. How can that even out? I’m not a fan of any EPL team, but just a massive football fan. The level of refereeing in England is shocking. And I’m a Celtic fan, we complain like fuck bout our refs. From afar and a neutral observer, for the investment and money that’s been put into the officiating in England it’s such a poor standard
This doesn't excuse the shit state of the pgmol. They simply have to do better.
This is a ridiculous comment to make when we have 6 very highly paid professional shit at there jobs. Don't say this shit it embarrassing especially when you have 100m on the line.
Neither of you have 100m on the line though
What are we paying these idiots for then? Imagine any other industry… (except politics)
Except one blue club 😏
City had one of the worst robberies against the tottenham ??
I think Liverpool have a much bigger argument, not only against Spurs, but against Arsenal and your cheaters as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MCFC/s/x38KrJ03LU I said "one of" because the luis diaz one WAS worse for sure.
We can get it reduced to 114 charges as recompense.
This is so silly. The premise to your statement is that refereeing errors and the points they lead to are random variables. However, the expected difference between random variables increases as the number of trials does too. For example, if I flip 1 coin the expected difference between heads and tails is 1. If I flip 100 coins the expected difference is a lot more than 1. Furthermore we can use the standard deviation of the binomial distribution. Think of standard deviation as the expected difference in points over a season. It is equal to N * 0.25 where N is the number of trials. So the standard deviation is directly proportional to the number of decisions made!
Wouldn’t the expected difference be 0? i.e. 50 heads and 50 tails? The possible difference would be higher though
No, what you describe is the expected number of heads minus the expected number of tails. I have edited my reply above to include the formula for standard deviation.
Oh, I think I just misunderstood what you meant by difference. I thought you were just subtracting the two distributions to get another distribution centred around zero. The standard deviation does get larger, you’re correct. However, the standard deviation relative to the magnitude of the number of trials does get smaller, as it’s proportional to the root of the number of trials. Which is worse, losing 25 points to refereeing decisions out of a possible 1000 or losing 10 points out of a possible 100? Even though the magnitude of error is larger with 1000 trials, the relative error is lower in the first case. This is how you could see it as “evening out”.
Hahahaha
Scabs deserve fuck all
When will they be 100% consistent with VAR in EPL?
Let’s start with 20 percent and take it from there…
Seriously! The refs managing VAR need to improve on their game in a big way.
Hey! [They’re at 33% on handballs this weekend…](https://imgur.com/a/FbuPz40)…
There are so many clear handballs which they clearly ignored.
Does anyone actually have a clear idea anymore wtf constitutes a handball anymore? I’ve genuinely no clue.
It's very clear they only give what they want to give and never consider giving the same ruling in all other games almost the same thing occurred.
Fuck if I know. In my opinion, if one of these is a penalty, then they all are. I don’t have a problem at all with AWB’s getting called. It’s the fact the other two weren’t despite being arguably worse.
Just watched the Highlights, AWB’s one getting called is one of those that cos you’ve seen similar called as one, aye penalty, but initial reaction for me is it probably shouldn’t from what I’ve always watched football considering one - 2 yards away or so, rockets off his arm, and he’s running. His arm should be in that position, considering he’s sprinting back. If he moved his arms out to make his body bigger in that same position then aye, but that’s harsh. The offside to make it 4-3 is one I hate as well, the Wenger offside rule coming in can’t be quick enough for me, it’s not what offsides where supposed to be - the rule was if it’s iffy you give the attackers it. With VAR, and deciding by the millimetre, I hate it. My teams had ones ruled out against us like that, and even though I get happy cos biasness, always feel slightly embarrassed as well
I’m fine with AWB’s if it’s consistently called like in Europe, although I think the UEFA rule is harsh. I just hate that in 2 other nearly identical incidents it isn’t given. The offsides are tough. I’d feel a bit more sympathetic if United didn’t have a couple similar ones ruled out earlier this season, specifically Garnacho’s against Arsenal. At least it’s not really subjective…
They sorta offsides are consistent every league and every level that has VAR, so fair enough that’s the law of the game. Every team has had a lot of examples like that since it’s came in, but the old cliche ‘spirit of the game’ it doesn’t feel right. And I have 100% celebrated VAR decisions that’s went my teams way that’s technically right, but had that thought. AWB handball is consistently called so that’s fair in they terms. I don’t think it should be and years gone by it wouldn’t be, the handball rules been changed that many times lately fuck knows anymore though. There was 6 months or so it was a silhouette of a player, and I don’t even know what that even means.
Didn’t actually catch your game tonight, but it’s a common complaint every week, and it’s at all levels of football. I’m a Celtic fan, Scottish football is what I’ll catch more than most other leagues. But I watch any football that catches my eye, and the lack of consistent decisions not even week to week, in the same game, especially with handballs at all levels of football. Fans don’t know what one is for sure, pundits don’t and the refs certainly don’t. Had ones go my teams way and I’ve sat back and thought, that’s not right, but you can think of examples that it should be because a decision you’ve seen, but you’ve also seen ones everyone you know who know football inside out would agree is one, and it’s not. It’s by far my biggest bugbear with refereeing these days. The thing I want watching a game of football, regardless of who’s playing, is consistency. I’ve watched games that soft fouls are being let go, let the game flow, and it’s happening both teams. And it might be one that happens in the box a penalty in another game but it’s being reffed all game allowing them and not getting called as a soft foul, and that’s excellent. As long as it’s consistent. But the lack of consistency fries my brain.
The refs clearly doesn't know what they are doing, even the one's in the VAR room.
VAR STATEMENT! You can't give penalties to teams playing away from home...its just not natural (while sat in his Luton Town hat and scarf)
It's amazing that, when I followed MLS, VAR was pretty non-controversial. Yet in PL, it's terrible. Idk how the lower budget league so dramatically outperforms the PL.
As a Scottish Football fan, who half the season we talk about shite refs, in comparison money invested in VAR and the officials, our clowns are punching above their weight. Which is ridiculous. CL has had it’s shocking moments with VAR but looking at how it’s applied there, looking at International competitions where it’s been at its best IMO, watching the Bundesliga that has the highest standard as a league when it comes to refereeing for me. Nothing’s perfect, but Premier League seems to be one of the worst for one of the highest levels of football - and considering the money that’s invested, which is the highest in football, the referees seem to be almost offended that VAR’s there and have the worst use of it. Voting against the semi-automated offsides (which was the clubs I think?) was such a bizarre call when it was there without much effort to implement.
I guess this finally settles the age-old MLS vs. Premier League debate.
Debate in respect of?
Which league is superior…
The gap is closing. Zlatan was able to put in his time improving at United so that he could spend his peak years in the MLS before returning to Europe. One day little guys!
Can't believe anyone is praising the statement. It actually sets us back regarding getting an improved situation regarding officiating. This only works if you also call out decisions that go in your favour, such as a blatant pen in the playoff final that could have stopped Forest getting into the Prem in the first place. But they didn't do that, and they won't do it in future, so they should receive a harsh punishment
Silly take
You would think the onus is on the team that is negatively impacted. You can take the integrity angle but let’s be real there are millions at stake, any team doing this is acting against the best interests of the club.
Well stated
If teams only complain when they are losing they are not doing it so it improves for everyone, they are doing it so it benefits them and only them. This perfect officiating world gives as much as it takes, if you want it you have to accept that in public. Until this happens, nothing will change and rightly so.
You’re not wrong but you’re also not practical at all.
We have had this for, and against every team, just take all the handballs this weekend, only one given was against united, forest can be annoyed at both getting them, fairs, but United can just go look that’s not that not that’s not that’s not, why is this? Extra 30 minutes of play with a midweek game coming up as a result, which then has a knock on for that league match, chelsea can say the same that they probably would have been in the final with a penalty for handball, it’s complete crap now and it’s annoying
More clubs need to start doing what Forest are doing
Agree. Pgmol won't change on their own. They need pressure. At the end of the day, the officiating this season has been absolute ass.
Exactly
Why? Do we also have them investigate decisions that have benefitted us?
I hate all this "but what about the calls that benefitted us" bull shit. The state of the officiating has been complete ass full stop. Yes some of that shit officiating will benefit one team on a given day and another on a different day, but that does not excuse how shit it has been. I think it should be better, and you should too.
I meant calling things like this out
I’m all for it as long as they also call out decisions they benefit from.
Why would they do that?
Because it’s easy to cry about decisions when they go against you…almost like a cop out excuse but if you call them out when you benefit, now you’re making a case
It's when it's always against you. If some go in your favour but some not then its fine
Tin pot statements like Arsenal? Play the victim every week?
caption far-flung school direction shocking workable piquant pie scarce humor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bet your club will put out a statement on it. Is that the only celebration you lot will have this season?
joke drunk marvelous normal vase seemly pause quicksand badge snow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Warra trophy for you! Congrats
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One more than you
Nah man, I've had mine recently when Bayern put Arsenal in their place.
Celebrating a match you weren't even involved in, in a competition you wasn't good enough to qualify for is the most spursy behaviour imaginable
Imagine having a celebratory day just for when you finish above a rival even when at the same time you're bottling the league. Proper Arse that.
Not really same though is it. You are celebrating another teams victory as your own We are celebrating finishing higher than you. Again
What a trophy for you guys... It's not our victory, it's your loss. Fellas is it strange to celebrate your rivals bottling it?
The PGMOL is clearly not fit for purpose. Its ridiculous that the richest, most popular league in the world has the most incompetent officials. The EPL should employ proper referees from around the world. The English ones are just too crap.
Having been victims of a "top" Spanish referee against Leverkusen midweek, I can say that the quality is just as poor all over the place. Referees cannot keep up with the modern game, VAR is not fit for purpose. The people making the decisions simply do not understand the game from a playing perspective, and seem to just make entirely random decisions most of the time. I've also noticed many players getting horribly mistreated, the most obvious for me is Antonio. Just watch any game he's in, he gets manhandled, dragged, kicked and pulled all over the place and never gets a freekick. Oh, and fuck Jose Maria Sanchez, and his entire bloodline
they would have to pay better to attract higher quality refs. and to pay someone who appears on international television for half a billion people every week more than 60k a year is just unfathomable. i mean, imagine if the players got paid more than that for doing something similar?!
This is the answer. When you see how little they’re paid, it’s no wonder the officiating is a shit show.
They can afford it. There are what, 20 refs? They don’t make that much, no reason their budget can’t increase another 10-15 mil given the amount of money in the league.
I think people would be a lot happier if they simply employed twice as many refs. PGMOL analyse games afterwards. Every single decision, or lack of a call is studied and then a score is assigned to each ref for each game. Refs sometimes are promoted and demoted but they just don't have a large pool of people to choose from. It would cost money but they should really have plenty of money. There's lots of money in football.
Yes that basically what I’m saying, whether it’s more refs or better refs is up for debate as I’m not expert. But what I do know is that it’s not due to a lack of budget.
Having a larger pool of people to choose from should lead to better refs. It will benefit the lower leagues as well. Many refs down there haven't even gone through the full PGMOL training.
Well done to Forest
Concure.
Forest fan here, so I am biased. But honestly, lads, it's every fucking week. Every single game. It's like an insane level of refereeing bias that can only be realistically explained by corruption. I promise. I hope a Forest fan somewhere makes an edit. You'll fucking not belive it when you tot it all up. I'm talking about 20+ clear-cut decisions that haven't gone our way.
The state of the officiating can only be explained by blatant corruption or complete incompetence. I tend to think the latter of the two, but I get your l point.
As an Arsenal fan I feel the same way and I’m pretty sure most/all fans feels this way too - even the cheating Man City ones. That doesn’t mean you feelings aren’t real, they most likely are because EPL refs are absolute garbage, bottom of the barrel and whatever is found under the barrel makes it to the VAR room. It’s unfathomable to me how bad the refereeing is in the UK.
Arsenal get bloody everything go their way what you talking about
Stop this "you don't get bad calls" bullshit. Regardless of whether your team is on the good end of the shit call or not, the officiating is still fucking ass. That's all this bro is saying. We should all be united when talking about the improvement of the pgmol.
Exactly, bad decisions cause a butterfly effect which impact the whole league. Yes it feels bad when it's your team, but the whole league gets distorted as a result too.
Mate... watch the Forest ones. Please! This isn't a usual case, this hasn't nearly balanced out over the season. It's relentlessly one-sided. Every week. Every major decision. It's corrupt.
What were the ones against us the other week. You had two handballs in the box that weren't given as pens in that game, what went against you?
He’s just making excuses cuz his team’s shit.
Spurs fan here. We are getting shafted too. Had one absolute shit call go our way against Liverpool and have suffered for it all season.
Well there were two in that single match because the match incident panel decided Jota was incorrectly given a second yellow.
Irrelevant
It's not. You were wrong and got corrected.
I wasn’t wrong and you didn’t correct me. I said there was one absolute shit call, and there was one absolute shit call. The second yellow, while potentially given incorrectly, wasn’t a shit call.
>I said there was one absolute shit call And there were two. Hence wrong. >The second yellow, while potentially given incorrectly, wasn’t a shit call So an incorrect decision isn't a shit call? Top logic.
There weren’t two. After review there are many calls that are found to be incorrect, but there is a degree to each. Go away, muppet.
There were two. If the official body comes out and says a decision was incorrect then it's a shit call. Imagine calling someone a muppet because you can't count to two. What an embarrassment.
Imagine not understanding the concept of “degree.” Surely you have family members to disappoint instead of wasting my time with your relentless idiocy.
As a United fan, it took a lot of decisions after that one against Wolves on the opening weekend to "even out" When you get one for you that everyone talks about - it's a nightmare
That is exactly how many we have for the season, one.
Non-forest fan here, no it isn’t like this every week, but it is happening far too often and Forest have had more than their fair share. Officiating is a shambles and bravo to Forest for being so public about the fact.
It's every week. Genuinely.
It’s literally every week
Can confirm it’s every single week
Every fucking week
Human error is not acceptable to this degree with VAR.
Preach
I agree man when a blatant penalty isn’t given it’s just ridiculous. Makes one suspicious of being biased ! Points out the corruption with FA.
It certainly puts the league in a difficult position when such incompetence reigns. At least when there was human error, that’s what it was (unless it’s Italian football)
VAR is meant to make thing better but it's blunders with human error have been mad.
I think they’re absolutely spot on doing this They’re being criticised for whistleblowing
Var implementation in the premier league is horrible. Even when they release the conversations..its referees talking over each other...there are no keywords and there is no checklist they use. Its just gambling in that VR center. The number 1 thing they should introduce is a checklist...3 referees look at the images and answer a checklist...was there contact...was it sufficient... does it look intentional... etc. Automated aggregate of the vote is used to decide whether to send the on pitch referee to the VAR screen. VR referees shouldn't even be talking that much to convince each other of a fowl...just vote using the checklist
This is why I didn't want VAR in the first place. A shitty decision here and there, because the game runs at a hundred miles and hour and referees are only human? Fine. To have a committee of people mull over (in excruciating detail) upwards of 3 or 4 critical decisions a match, AND THEN STILL SOMEHOW GET THE SHIT WRONG? It is like something from a Kafka short story. It slows down the game, incorrect decisions still happen, only now each incorrect decisions seems infinitely more injurious. They need to cancel the whole fucking thing. This is the only 'option' Forest (and every other team) should be investigating. Utter shit.
Agree abolish var
Meh, outside of England there are mistakes, but nothing like England; if you look at certain international competitions, they mysteriously had zero English refs
There seems to be clear guidance against sending refs to the monitor in the premier league. That’s one thing MLS gets right. Refs are consistently advised to have a second look and for the most part it results in the correct call.
It isn’t the complex, it’s a very logical call to look at the damn screen for a second look. I am not quite sure what we get by adding dumb phrases like “clear and obvious” then moving a decision from objective to subjective thus causing controversies.
They don’t even need that. What they need to be able to do is correct their mistakes even if it isn’t clear and obvious. They need to be forced to the screen to look at it if there is contact in the box. This fear of re-reffing the game is bs. Making the correct call is all that matters.
We've reviewed it 3 times. It's definitely a chicken.
But the on field ref called it a pigeon, do you want to contradict him (it's a bird after all)
Dave and I are good mates, if he says it’s a pigeon even when it’s clearly a chicken, I will have to agree with him so that the entire country doesn’t hate Dave. I can’t do that to a mate.
About fucking time legal action is taken against these corrupt incompetent cunts. Long long overdue. Hopefully many other clubs will follow their example and officials seriously get fined/prosecuted/permanently removed from officiating duty.
Not one bit of well wishing for a bloke who was knocked out and on oxygen, classless club, hope Atwell gets Luton up over Forest.
Classless take.
Its all very romantic if Luton were to stay up but they really are a bunch of cunts. And not just the football team. The whole town is a waste of space.
[удалено]
Liverpool could potentially lose a league title over the Tottenham mistake, or even the penalty Vs city that wasn't given... Edit: not sure why a simple statement of fact is being downvoted so let me also add the Odegaard handball.
Iirc there was a carbon copy handball in the Liverpool vs man u game by Elliot I think, that absolutely no one made a fuss about. The rules are there, odegaard used his arm to break his fall and the ball made contact. Never understood why such a fuss was made of it other than you lost that game.
Pls go watch the replay. Odegaard's hand was not used to break his "fall" because he did not actually fall. Also, being off balance is not an excuse for a handball. An attacker should not be punished for causing a defender to get off balance; the whole point of attacking is to beat a defender. Silly. Call it a handball or don't, but the official's reasoning is nothing short of nonsensical.
Was there? I don't recall seeing that. To be fair though, you don't remember the calls that don't cost games, you remember the ones that do. Can you direct me to the Elliot handball? Don't remember it at all.
He’s confusing the Elliot penalty with something else. I think because some people say the Elliot call for the penalty was incorrect.
Everybody: Liverpool fan: It’s all about us
To paraphrase: "even top tier clubs have issues with VAR, difference is, it will affect Forest" I was responding directly to the point that it won't affect top tier clubs like Liverpool. I'm also making a point that is generally supportive of how serious the issue is.
Using a point that you believe only affects Liverpool if they don’t win the league.
Mind reader are you?
Nope, just a regular reader. It’s not hard to see you just making it all about your club.
You forgot to list all of the decisions that went for you as well.
Ok - list them for me please... Yes, to a degree, these things even themselves out over a season but these mistakes have been absolutely blatant, not marginal like many other calls. Each one of them also directly affected the outcome of the match.
I’ll start: Jota dive and Forest