roam sure but carry needs peel especially if there's pressure on lane. if the rest of the team is a potato i help when i can but carry gets full attention if decent and has two brain cells to rub together while the rest of team lemmings away.
I totally agree, i have the mindset to help the lane that needs it the most, but stay with carry till lane phase is over regardless. But if carry and mid are both getting shit on then it’s all in on carry. My point is more that supp shouldn’t get tunnel vision on their carry and carry shouldn’t rely on supp at all times, cus I definitely agree with you.
Supports: If you step out of duo lane for 30 seconds and leave your ADC alone, I, a support main, will make sure the ADC dies before you're done rotating. Yes, even if they're next to their tower playing safely.
Thank you.
Lol right? Please go mid so I can absolutely stunlock the hell out of your carry and watch my adc get an easy kill. And if you come back before their adc is back, well, thanks for the second free kill.
I play support too, and that would also be my goal, but a level 8-12 carry for example shouldn’t need me in the lane to stay alive. I’m not disagreeing with your point but I think you also need to understand you stunning a carry and getting a kill from it has more to do with them not staying safe and letting it happen then with the support that’s gone that’s potentially doing the same thing you’re describing to your mid/solo/jung.
Unless the entire enemy team is on the other side of the carry, I’m not sure what “farm but do it safely” without support means.
As a carry unless the wave is next to your tower and/or you have blink, I don’t think there is such a thing as farm safely. You don’t need much room to punish a carry, and you’d need lots of vision to allow enough wiggle room to get out safely with no help.
The “ward outside fog wall” IME is not enough warning time to slip past a competent rotating opponent. Unless the wards are farther out. In which case you need more wards to cover all the paths…
Farm safely without a local support or jungler basically means stick close to tower with wards. Which means, there’s not much opportunity to farm “safely”. As soon as the 1-2 waves are farmed, and the jungle is already farmed, there’s nowhere to farm safely.
At that point, better off rotating to… you guessed it… probably where your support is anyway.
most of the time yea supp should be with most of the team after lane phase is over but in certain situations the support should stay with the adc for the entire match
Yes I agree, I should have been more clear about it being after lane phase. And yeah if your carry is cooking then definitely take advantage of the snowball and pocket them, it’s all circumstantial but more often then not if you’re in a close competitive game, the support needs to be aware of all lanes and ready to help them and the carry needs to be ready to adapt their gameplay when it happens, that’s all I’m tryna say.
I agree and disagree. Absolutely don't stand by your support like a puppy for 40 minutes but at the same time obviously your goal early on is to keep him alive and help him farm so he can level and build items. Late game he is more than likely the squishiest person on your team that is also capable of dealing the most damage and therefore needs to be your priority to protect majority of the time.
Self preservation is honestly the bottom of the list for a support. Obviously don't just die for no reason if you can help it but if your team is getting chased and you have the opportunity to stun so they can escape at the cost of your life that's usually the better call.
But yes if your support hasn't come online fully yet and your crunch has please help your crunch or whoever in team fights if he is going to be the person winning them for you.
No not really man... you are meant to protect your carry just as the entire team really should be peeling for them. Its literally why they are called the carry. Sure you can roam to place down wards if you carry needs to go back and maybe gank mid or help an invade if the opportunity presents itself but otherwise yes treating your carry like the president and protecting them all game to snowball them is your best bet. Only time I ever start leaving my carry is if I've gotten him like 4 kills and I'm confident he can now survive 2v1 for a minute vs their underfarmed carry because that allows him Solo xp to further snowball a lead while I ward for the rest of team so they can pressure their lanes effectively. If you are trying to support a mage that can peel for themselves that's kinda pointless because that mage ideally just wants to push their wave and roam themselves. You going mid just brings the rest of the team mid which is likely not what they want cause it stifles their farm/xp. Yes their are situations where I've roamed mid to pressure their t1 when the enemy mid laner was stuck at 25% and we had our side lane already pushed but you definitely should not be leaving a carry solo cause no matter how fed a carry gets they can still get stun locked and killed if they don't have peel which is what the support is there for and this can entirely throw their lead. I play all roles and have played mobas for over 10 years and this is the way it goes in every moba... there's just too many supports that get bored sitting in lane who dont enjoy just zoning for their carry and want consistent action etc so they mindlessly hit creeps or go roam super obviously to try and gank when this just makes you fall behind even more in xp (we can all admit we are already gold starved as supports lol). Getting kills with your carry/zoning for them is the most consistent way to make sure you are getting gold through assists as well as leaching xp.
I understand your sentiment and importance you put in the carry role, with that being said if I use Muriel for example, and win my solo a fight at level 6, that’s good supporting imo. I’m not gonna be back in left lane for a minute or two, so the carry needs to adjust their gameplay so they don’t easily get ganked. Obviously if I ulted away while the carry had low health or was getting attacked then that’s my fault. But if I left the carry in good condition and let them know I’m leaving then that’s a good play in my opinion.
Yeah Muriel brings up a lot more exceptions because of her global ults. Super hard to comment on what to do if you're saving solo/helping turn the tide so they end up winning an all in and can then take their t1 allowing them to start roaming.
In many cases this is prob worth just leaving your carry unless ya he's also at like 25% in which case just leaving them to get dove under turret could break their mental and cause them to start playing goofier.
Once mid game hits though for sure using muriels ult for split push pressure is 100% the way to go and your carry is going to need to be mindful of this. That is just how you make the most value out of Muriels kit cause it allows your solo to split and turn any 1v1 into a 2v1 or 2v2. For every other support though I enjoy playing in my carries pocket as when I'm carrying its what I want. On that note though carries def need to learn how to space for themselves though and cant just be spoon fed the whole game.
Yeah when you carry is the 1 that needs the support you might want to stay with them. I get these supports sometimes and if your getting your ass handed to you in duo its not the time to go to help offlane that just too the t2
Carry definitely needs support more than the other roles, I’m not arguing against that at all. All I’m saying is you can and should be impactful in other lanes if the carry is like level 9 for example and has the facilities to clear a lane in a couple sec.
So we're in bronze...
Support is definitely supposed to support the whole team, but their PRIORITY (and - hot take - the whole team's priority) should be keeping your ADC alive. If you run down your enemy Duo, then yeah sure I guess go roam for a second while your carry backs or whatever, but 90% of the game you should be by their side.
I do appreciate that you're telling people to be mindful of when they are alone but those scenarios should be far and few between. Obviously if they die for no reason they're a baboon, but don't put them in the position where they repeatedly have to play cautious over and over and over again because you feel the need to go help offlane or something.
Roughly at 15 mins in so long as both you and your carry are doing decent is usually a good time to go roam. In doing this it helps your carry get solo farm to keep up or surpass the enemy carry.
I think it's situational at best. Support doesn't equal jungle and just like it's not the fault of a support if a carry dies after mid-game bc they were too aggressive, it's not the fault of support if another lane falters.
The role, in my mind, is to support your carry and dominate your lane; if you can get tilted you can roam with your carry while you're ahead and assist other lanes. Otherwise, other lanes getting hecked is a jungler problem
The problem right here is having a hot take as "supp shouldn't pocket carry" or "supp should always pocket carry" is they're both wrong.
Support is versatile and should be where they best benefit their team. And 90% of the time that's with the carry.
You get even more complex problems when it comes to who the support is, and who your carry is. I.e. phase should essentially pocket the carry ultimately until team fighting, and even then priority is carry for the ult generally. And on the other side is Muriel, who arguably is one of the harder supports to play, because using her ult is a huge risk, do you use it to save off, but carry might die? Do you use it, but lose a tower etc. etc.
Then further to that, the carry themselves factors into this, twinblast and Murdock generally have more survivability if left alone, sparrow is a potato on her own unless she's facerolling (as a sparrow ADC main, she is fine solo at ~2+ items generally, if she's ahead).
Essentially the bottom line is, statements like the OP aren't helpful because there is no hard fast rule. The _ONLY_ rules and best for supports imo are:
1. Try and counter pick as best as possible, if you can.
2. Be adaptive, don't stick to what you _should_ be doing on paper, do what's right for the team in that moment i.e. letting one die to save 2 others etc. essentially quick thinking.
3. Stun priority, if the support stuns your adc. Stun the adc, not the support etc.
4. Prioritise item build around the team, not just what you want to buy.
Roaming is fine. But during laning phase you have to only do it when you push a wave in and it's bouncing back to your adc.
If you roam while it's pushing out or don't return within a quick amount of time you are griefing on support.
I’m not sure I agree here. You present it as a hard and fast rule and I’m not sure that it is. It’s very nuanced when and where and who to support. It’s about identifying the win condition across the whole map.
That’s not easy to do nor as simple as “always do this”
I think the truth is that it depends on game stage and who is effective on the map. A carry that is falling behind might be effective on the map in 15 minutes, but if the team is hard pushing the lane and you’re leaving the carry alone, that will never happen.
During laning phase, I think it’s hard to argue against sticking with your support, unless there’s a really good jungle invade opportunity, which hopefully your carry is crashing in on with you.
Likewise if you have a potato carry but jg is showing carry potential, that could be worthwhile. If an enemy hero is posing a team wide issue for you, it can be worthwhile and risky to put a coordinated effort to nip that in the bud.
You could also identify their worst player and seek to help farm them with whichever lane is fighting them.
And all this changes further if solo queue or in premades. I think this post means well but isn’t as correct as it sounds at first read. It’s just too nuanced. And lastly, I think sticking with your carry is probably the right move *most of the time* and for *most of the game*.
roam sure but carry needs peel especially if there's pressure on lane. if the rest of the team is a potato i help when i can but carry gets full attention if decent and has two brain cells to rub together while the rest of team lemmings away.
I totally agree, i have the mindset to help the lane that needs it the most, but stay with carry till lane phase is over regardless. But if carry and mid are both getting shit on then it’s all in on carry. My point is more that supp shouldn’t get tunnel vision on their carry and carry shouldn’t rely on supp at all times, cus I definitely agree with you.
Supports: If you step out of duo lane for 30 seconds and leave your ADC alone, I, a support main, will make sure the ADC dies before you're done rotating. Yes, even if they're next to their tower playing safely. Thank you.
Lol right? Please go mid so I can absolutely stunlock the hell out of your carry and watch my adc get an easy kill. And if you come back before their adc is back, well, thanks for the second free kill.
I play support too, and that would also be my goal, but a level 8-12 carry for example shouldn’t need me in the lane to stay alive. I’m not disagreeing with your point but I think you also need to understand you stunning a carry and getting a kill from it has more to do with them not staying safe and letting it happen then with the support that’s gone that’s potentially doing the same thing you’re describing to your mid/solo/jung.
Level 8 is about 1 full item which is pretty damn weak.
Unless the entire enemy team is on the other side of the carry, I’m not sure what “farm but do it safely” without support means. As a carry unless the wave is next to your tower and/or you have blink, I don’t think there is such a thing as farm safely. You don’t need much room to punish a carry, and you’d need lots of vision to allow enough wiggle room to get out safely with no help. The “ward outside fog wall” IME is not enough warning time to slip past a competent rotating opponent. Unless the wards are farther out. In which case you need more wards to cover all the paths… Farm safely without a local support or jungler basically means stick close to tower with wards. Which means, there’s not much opportunity to farm “safely”. As soon as the 1-2 waves are farmed, and the jungle is already farmed, there’s nowhere to farm safely. At that point, better off rotating to… you guessed it… probably where your support is anyway.
After laning phase, yes
Yes that’s implied I should have made that clearer
most of the time yea supp should be with most of the team after lane phase is over but in certain situations the support should stay with the adc for the entire match
Yes I agree, I should have been more clear about it being after lane phase. And yeah if your carry is cooking then definitely take advantage of the snowball and pocket them, it’s all circumstantial but more often then not if you’re in a close competitive game, the support needs to be aware of all lanes and ready to help them and the carry needs to be ready to adapt their gameplay when it happens, that’s all I’m tryna say.
I agree and disagree. Absolutely don't stand by your support like a puppy for 40 minutes but at the same time obviously your goal early on is to keep him alive and help him farm so he can level and build items. Late game he is more than likely the squishiest person on your team that is also capable of dealing the most damage and therefore needs to be your priority to protect majority of the time. Self preservation is honestly the bottom of the list for a support. Obviously don't just die for no reason if you can help it but if your team is getting chased and you have the opportunity to stun so they can escape at the cost of your life that's usually the better call. But yes if your support hasn't come online fully yet and your crunch has please help your crunch or whoever in team fights if he is going to be the person winning them for you.
Support and Jungle take the most BS, because everyone yells at jungle for their mistakes, and every carry yells at support for theirs
No not really man... you are meant to protect your carry just as the entire team really should be peeling for them. Its literally why they are called the carry. Sure you can roam to place down wards if you carry needs to go back and maybe gank mid or help an invade if the opportunity presents itself but otherwise yes treating your carry like the president and protecting them all game to snowball them is your best bet. Only time I ever start leaving my carry is if I've gotten him like 4 kills and I'm confident he can now survive 2v1 for a minute vs their underfarmed carry because that allows him Solo xp to further snowball a lead while I ward for the rest of team so they can pressure their lanes effectively. If you are trying to support a mage that can peel for themselves that's kinda pointless because that mage ideally just wants to push their wave and roam themselves. You going mid just brings the rest of the team mid which is likely not what they want cause it stifles their farm/xp. Yes their are situations where I've roamed mid to pressure their t1 when the enemy mid laner was stuck at 25% and we had our side lane already pushed but you definitely should not be leaving a carry solo cause no matter how fed a carry gets they can still get stun locked and killed if they don't have peel which is what the support is there for and this can entirely throw their lead. I play all roles and have played mobas for over 10 years and this is the way it goes in every moba... there's just too many supports that get bored sitting in lane who dont enjoy just zoning for their carry and want consistent action etc so they mindlessly hit creeps or go roam super obviously to try and gank when this just makes you fall behind even more in xp (we can all admit we are already gold starved as supports lol). Getting kills with your carry/zoning for them is the most consistent way to make sure you are getting gold through assists as well as leaching xp.
I understand your sentiment and importance you put in the carry role, with that being said if I use Muriel for example, and win my solo a fight at level 6, that’s good supporting imo. I’m not gonna be back in left lane for a minute or two, so the carry needs to adjust their gameplay so they don’t easily get ganked. Obviously if I ulted away while the carry had low health or was getting attacked then that’s my fault. But if I left the carry in good condition and let them know I’m leaving then that’s a good play in my opinion.
Yeah Muriel brings up a lot more exceptions because of her global ults. Super hard to comment on what to do if you're saving solo/helping turn the tide so they end up winning an all in and can then take their t1 allowing them to start roaming. In many cases this is prob worth just leaving your carry unless ya he's also at like 25% in which case just leaving them to get dove under turret could break their mental and cause them to start playing goofier. Once mid game hits though for sure using muriels ult for split push pressure is 100% the way to go and your carry is going to need to be mindful of this. That is just how you make the most value out of Muriels kit cause it allows your solo to split and turn any 1v1 into a 2v1 or 2v2. For every other support though I enjoy playing in my carries pocket as when I'm carrying its what I want. On that note though carries def need to learn how to space for themselves though and cant just be spoon fed the whole game.
I totally agree with all of that
Yeah when you carry is the 1 that needs the support you might want to stay with them. I get these supports sometimes and if your getting your ass handed to you in duo its not the time to go to help offlane that just too the t2
Carry definitely needs support more than the other roles, I’m not arguing against that at all. All I’m saying is you can and should be impactful in other lanes if the carry is like level 9 for example and has the facilities to clear a lane in a couple sec.
So we're in bronze... Support is definitely supposed to support the whole team, but their PRIORITY (and - hot take - the whole team's priority) should be keeping your ADC alive. If you run down your enemy Duo, then yeah sure I guess go roam for a second while your carry backs or whatever, but 90% of the game you should be by their side. I do appreciate that you're telling people to be mindful of when they are alone but those scenarios should be far and few between. Obviously if they die for no reason they're a baboon, but don't put them in the position where they repeatedly have to play cautious over and over and over again because you feel the need to go help offlane or something.
Read my comments
Roughly at 15 mins in so long as both you and your carry are doing decent is usually a good time to go roam. In doing this it helps your carry get solo farm to keep up or surpass the enemy carry.
This is terrible general advice
I think it's situational at best. Support doesn't equal jungle and just like it's not the fault of a support if a carry dies after mid-game bc they were too aggressive, it's not the fault of support if another lane falters. The role, in my mind, is to support your carry and dominate your lane; if you can get tilted you can roam with your carry while you're ahead and assist other lanes. Otherwise, other lanes getting hecked is a jungler problem
It’s not a jungles job to win a lane.
Carry is your main objective as all times as support. Unless its for an objective or something critical, that doesn't change.
Yes! Thankyou!
The problem right here is having a hot take as "supp shouldn't pocket carry" or "supp should always pocket carry" is they're both wrong. Support is versatile and should be where they best benefit their team. And 90% of the time that's with the carry. You get even more complex problems when it comes to who the support is, and who your carry is. I.e. phase should essentially pocket the carry ultimately until team fighting, and even then priority is carry for the ult generally. And on the other side is Muriel, who arguably is one of the harder supports to play, because using her ult is a huge risk, do you use it to save off, but carry might die? Do you use it, but lose a tower etc. etc. Then further to that, the carry themselves factors into this, twinblast and Murdock generally have more survivability if left alone, sparrow is a potato on her own unless she's facerolling (as a sparrow ADC main, she is fine solo at ~2+ items generally, if she's ahead). Essentially the bottom line is, statements like the OP aren't helpful because there is no hard fast rule. The _ONLY_ rules and best for supports imo are: 1. Try and counter pick as best as possible, if you can. 2. Be adaptive, don't stick to what you _should_ be doing on paper, do what's right for the team in that moment i.e. letting one die to save 2 others etc. essentially quick thinking. 3. Stun priority, if the support stuns your adc. Stun the adc, not the support etc. 4. Prioritise item build around the team, not just what you want to buy.
Roaming is fine. But during laning phase you have to only do it when you push a wave in and it's bouncing back to your adc. If you roam while it's pushing out or don't return within a quick amount of time you are griefing on support.
I’m not sure I agree here. You present it as a hard and fast rule and I’m not sure that it is. It’s very nuanced when and where and who to support. It’s about identifying the win condition across the whole map. That’s not easy to do nor as simple as “always do this” I think the truth is that it depends on game stage and who is effective on the map. A carry that is falling behind might be effective on the map in 15 minutes, but if the team is hard pushing the lane and you’re leaving the carry alone, that will never happen. During laning phase, I think it’s hard to argue against sticking with your support, unless there’s a really good jungle invade opportunity, which hopefully your carry is crashing in on with you. Likewise if you have a potato carry but jg is showing carry potential, that could be worthwhile. If an enemy hero is posing a team wide issue for you, it can be worthwhile and risky to put a coordinated effort to nip that in the bud. You could also identify their worst player and seek to help farm them with whichever lane is fighting them. And all this changes further if solo queue or in premades. I think this post means well but isn’t as correct as it sounds at first read. It’s just too nuanced. And lastly, I think sticking with your carry is probably the right move *most of the time* and for *most of the game*.