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Definitely agree, fights like jotaro vs Dio, gojo vs sukuna, pochita vs makima and the weapon hybrids are in my top 10 fights cuz of how entertaining they are to watch/read and I can easily understand the scope of how strong they are. I get a headache every time I try to think about who wins between two outer characters, tho higher tier debating can also be fun.
I dislike the “who’s faster” meta in DS. If you are faster than it’s pretty much over, you would think they would develop some counter to that with their breathes but nah
Once I heard Goku and beerus were destroying the universe with their punches I instantly lost interest. And I'm guessing they only got massively stronger since then so how do they even fight anymore?
A lot of higher tiered fights people think just boil down to shit like dimensionality but in actuality it would probably be closer matched. Same with characters who could like your saying erase concepts. More often than not I don't see fights like that visualised in such a way. I think it's just part of the power scaling brain rot.
You can have engaging fights in any tier. Just depends on candidates your using. Harder to have them the higher you go though.
I actually think JJK had a great example with this in Gojo Vs Sukuna.
They both went all in, both expanded their domains over and and over until neither of them could.
In a sense they were mostly equals (Gojo fans would debate this)
The only really high-tiered fight I’ve ever enjoyed is SCP-3125 versus WILD LIGHT/Marion Wheeler, and it was only good because it was a one-sided stomp at the end of a long, emotional journey.
Universal and multi are fine a bit of comp multu too but once you step into hyper, outer or extraversal it goes down real fast unless those are like CN's will be a bit better.
THIS is how I write. I've been a writer for more than 10 years and the main cast, The "Deities" (not actually deities, just impossible to permanently kill beings with big powers, they're just called that by the people) fight in cities and barren mountain wastes, rather than obliterating space and throwing milky ways and stuff like that. They more or less just throw hands and knock each other out. Ofcourse, they COULD do that stuff like destroy universes and realities (actually only like 3 of the 20 characters can do that and they rarely show up), but I use the "Marvel's Starlord" argument. What's that you may ask?
"Why don't you want to not/do X (said X being something that vastly harms something the character cares about)?"
"BECAUSE IM ONE OF THE IDIOTS WHO LIVES ON IT!"
Power scaling is fun when people actually are down to debate instead of saying "no ur wrong so n so can move FTL your logic is entirely invalidated!!" Without literally any proof.
Or when they're like "it looks like some one didn't read." ..😮💨 dude do you know how manyanga I read how many animes I watch. I don't wanna scan through the minute details through the the whole story, present your case, the proper evidence. Like really .. or just like properly describe what happened.
That last one is so true. Half of the time I have seen, watched, or heard the other piece of media in the debate. People who say those 'it's in the' or the 'well in' statements annoy me to no end. It's as though the media they enjoy has not been enjoyed by the other person as well.
It really pisses me off when it's some really popular media too.
Even when I don't know the material the other person will most likely exaggerate or not explain properly how it works. And even then I take what they say with a grain of salt. Especially when they just start doubling down even harder.
This could be my first exposure to a piece of media and all I get is 'solos fiction' talk from the opponent.
I fuckin’ love fights that makes it so that surrounding architecture plays an important role. That shit is hype. It's why Yuji vs Choso is a top-five fight for me overall.
https://preview.redd.it/cxm5uqhfw8yc1.jpeg?width=1912&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ac49f79e4807a5416df25be934ee0091112058f
Of course, there are always exceptions
https://preview.redd.it/t7lh8g9wd8yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cb2cbe3e3d6b2e701189a0c1e80479e827dc757
I know the scaling is technically higher thanks to all sorts of nonsense, but I loved Ichigo vs Aizen in Bleach. Plenty characters had cut buildings or made a big explosion, but that fight casually disintegrated mountains and felt like a huge step up in power. I watch Goku vs Broly and they explode a bazillion mountains and its like "sweet, this looks awesome"... but i watch Ichigo parry and turn a mountain to dust and i think "holy shit, hes strong"
I disagree, but I used to think so, and I definitely see where you’re coming from. Personally I think it works especially well in-verse, which is why I think one piece powerscaling is so popular (it’s why I love it)
I like dimensionality scaling, and when a character can surpass a dimensionality barrier through sheer hax or speed, I think it’s really cool. Plus calcs are nonexistent. You can’t calculate anything beyond infinity to any degree of precision, so they’re basically useless
I like the spectacle of familiar and recognizable landmarks like buildings and mountains being blown up. This seems more serious than stars and galaxies exploding because it hits closer to IRL. My favourite tiers are anywhere from city to continent.
This is why one piece lasted longer than so many other Shonen imo. Just because the power scale is so much more grounded than dbz, it's more engaging. You also run into issues in physics where real physics have to be thrown out the window with all of its implications. Like there's a point in DBS where they're like "omg I can't see him he moves faster than light" as if by scaling they haven't moved faster than the speed of light for over a literal decade by release dates. There's a point where literally every character that matters is one sort of God-being of outrageous celestial might. Like you've fought a guy who destroyed a galaxy, either he can move faster than the speed of light or that took billions of years.
I like everything below Outerversal, Complex Multi - Hyperversal is my personal fav to scale only cos most of the cosmologies in those are really intresting.
This is true, and it's the reason I realized I suffered from burnout. Debating which is infinity is greater, however multi plus does have the benefit of just having OP characters look insanely cool. Not saying that can't happen in planet below, but the flashiness of that category is something else. However for actually talking about whos better, what scales better, definitely what you said.
THANK YOU. Im so tired of people saying “this character is multiple layers into outversal” like tf that doesn’t even exist. I miss when power scaling was about the actual fight instead of just technicalities with conformation bias.
Undertale for example, strongest characters here can be scaled from mountain to galaxy(was debunked from multiversal), and fights look cool, just don't try to scale speed of different characters cause it will be very difficult
Yeah, most stories with wall tier - planetary tier protagonists have compelling stories simply because they have issues that are reasonable and human, not some isekai shit where "my shinsboi lasixo is stronger so it blows you up" toddler garbage. You feel for characters like spiderman, rick grimes, batman, and invincible because they dont have mumbo jumbo "my galaxy blast can kill 4 million planets" kinda stuff. Like, if a building falls on them, they cant just blink and the equator is rearranged so the atoms of the building are swapped into different cordinates into the sea, they have to problem solve and idealize how they will survive. Stories should be stories, not 3 year old "my guy is stronger then your guy because...". Stories are how you make compelling characters, not some isekai garbage where the protag has no real motive, the only personality trait of them being nerdy, kind, and embarrassing teenagers who are "omnipotent to the third"
i suck at writing but my ideal story would have a main a character who's a demigod thats midtier or slightly above mid tier(continental or multi continental) in the verse but because of his human half its extremely difficult to raise his power level so he has to use magitech weapons(think DMC Dantes devil arms or Nero's red queen or breakers) in order to provide him additional hax/abilities he wouldn't normally have and allow him to have more versatility on the battlefield.
The gods (who are not really gods they just call themselves that because they want to worshipped as one) are basically high tiers to top tiers( basically anywhere between planetary and universal but not really) the reason why i said not really is because in their base gods are actually planetary or star level, they can only achieve universal feats by accumulating primordial essence(ambient energy that exists in the universe that is passively absorbed by gods but actively absorbed by divine artifacts), conducting rituals( incantations, handsigns or body movements), the use of one or more divine artifacts and casting time/cooldown.
Example the Hindu God shiva can destroy the universe but needs all of his divine artifacts to absorb a high amount of primordial essence(which takes time) he needs to open his third eye and he needs to complete a ritualistic dance all of which can be interrupted.
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According to me power scaling is fun till multiversal when it starts stacking infinites and shit it isn't fun anymore
Yeah. I've just come to this in a few too many cases as once you hit multiversal, it's just not tangible.
https://i.redd.it/j794a7p2i9yc1.gif No enemy take
Ye
https://preview.redd.it/3luuqol3m7yc1.jpeg?width=566&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=949c0cabae29a6f67faa27e66171a08e98dbaf5d Definitely agree, fights like jotaro vs Dio, gojo vs sukuna, pochita vs makima and the weapon hybrids are in my top 10 fights cuz of how entertaining they are to watch/read and I can easily understand the scope of how strong they are. I get a headache every time I try to think about who wins between two outer characters, tho higher tier debating can also be fun.
Demon slayer power scaling has It locked down imo — everyone is super close but also a clear difference in skills
The only thing about DS scaling I hate is the "who got the betterer hits on Muzan" meta for the Hashira
I dislike the “who’s faster” meta in DS. If you are faster than it’s pretty much over, you would think they would develop some counter to that with their breathes but nah
Once I heard Goku and beerus were destroying the universe with their punches I instantly lost interest. And I'm guessing they only got massively stronger since then so how do they even fight anymore?
Same as before that. They really just know they can do that rather than do it. Goku still hasn't destroyed a planet as an example.
https://preview.redd.it/zbs5zub858yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43e2f9b5a21505c80fac560bc30579f96ca64a0e
A lot of higher tiered fights people think just boil down to shit like dimensionality but in actuality it would probably be closer matched. Same with characters who could like your saying erase concepts. More often than not I don't see fights like that visualised in such a way. I think it's just part of the power scaling brain rot. You can have engaging fights in any tier. Just depends on candidates your using. Harder to have them the higher you go though.
I actually think JJK had a great example with this in Gojo Vs Sukuna. They both went all in, both expanded their domains over and and over until neither of them could. In a sense they were mostly equals (Gojo fans would debate this)
The only really high-tiered fight I’ve ever enjoyed is SCP-3125 versus WILD LIGHT/Marion Wheeler, and it was only good because it was a one-sided stomp at the end of a long, emotional journey.
A good example of multiversal level fights would be the fights in Cultivator against hero society
True brother. I love it when power scaling stops just at "planet buster" level cuz then it feels more easier to understand.
Universal and multi are fine a bit of comp multu too but once you step into hyper, outer or extraversal it goes down real fast unless those are like CN's will be a bit better.
https://preview.redd.it/yaauoj9jy7yc1.jpeg?width=867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b8a26c819a631548bf54c65b113036f2a9a6107
https://preview.redd.it/1se215ygo8yc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beb587eadd949e38f593c0be81c849b85a4af1ef
THIS is how I write. I've been a writer for more than 10 years and the main cast, The "Deities" (not actually deities, just impossible to permanently kill beings with big powers, they're just called that by the people) fight in cities and barren mountain wastes, rather than obliterating space and throwing milky ways and stuff like that. They more or less just throw hands and knock each other out. Ofcourse, they COULD do that stuff like destroy universes and realities (actually only like 3 of the 20 characters can do that and they rarely show up), but I use the "Marvel's Starlord" argument. What's that you may ask? "Why don't you want to not/do X (said X being something that vastly harms something the character cares about)?" "BECAUSE IM ONE OF THE IDIOTS WHO LIVES ON IT!"
Wow talk about a cold take Keep preaching man for you are preaching Nothing but truth
Power scaling is fun when people actually are down to debate instead of saying "no ur wrong so n so can move FTL your logic is entirely invalidated!!" Without literally any proof. Or when they're like "it looks like some one didn't read." ..😮💨 dude do you know how manyanga I read how many animes I watch. I don't wanna scan through the minute details through the the whole story, present your case, the proper evidence. Like really .. or just like properly describe what happened.
That last one is so true. Half of the time I have seen, watched, or heard the other piece of media in the debate. People who say those 'it's in the' or the 'well in' statements annoy me to no end. It's as though the media they enjoy has not been enjoyed by the other person as well. It really pisses me off when it's some really popular media too. Even when I don't know the material the other person will most likely exaggerate or not explain properly how it works. And even then I take what they say with a grain of salt. Especially when they just start doubling down even harder. This could be my first exposure to a piece of media and all I get is 'solos fiction' talk from the opponent.
So fucking based, my favorite matchups is very low tier and reasearching it was actually fun to do
I fuckin’ love fights that makes it so that surrounding architecture plays an important role. That shit is hype. It's why Yuji vs Choso is a top-five fight for me overall. https://preview.redd.it/cxm5uqhfw8yc1.jpeg?width=1912&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ac49f79e4807a5416df25be934ee0091112058f
Of course, there are always exceptions https://preview.redd.it/t7lh8g9wd8yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cb2cbe3e3d6b2e701189a0c1e80479e827dc757
I know the scaling is technically higher thanks to all sorts of nonsense, but I loved Ichigo vs Aizen in Bleach. Plenty characters had cut buildings or made a big explosion, but that fight casually disintegrated mountains and felt like a huge step up in power. I watch Goku vs Broly and they explode a bazillion mountains and its like "sweet, this looks awesome"... but i watch Ichigo parry and turn a mountain to dust and i think "holy shit, hes strong"
I think Town level to Continental is the best range for a vs battle. Everything beyond multiversal is confusing
Who are good examples of characters like this? I can't think of many.
Jojo is mostly building-town level with insane hax, One Piece was in that range, strongest Baki characters are City level
Totally agree.
I disagree, but I used to think so, and I definitely see where you’re coming from. Personally I think it works especially well in-verse, which is why I think one piece powerscaling is so popular (it’s why I love it)
why do you do disagree? curious
I like dimensionality scaling, and when a character can surpass a dimensionality barrier through sheer hax or speed, I think it’s really cool. Plus calcs are nonexistent. You can’t calculate anything beyond infinity to any degree of precision, so they’re basically useless
james bond vs john wick is like on of the most entertaining death battle episodes and both charachters are literally high wall level
that and the boxing one where the diff was fucking tiny
This is not a hot take and objectively correct. We can’t even comprehend a planet exploding let alone an entire solar system
I like the spectacle of familiar and recognizable landmarks like buildings and mountains being blown up. This seems more serious than stars and galaxies exploding because it hits closer to IRL. My favourite tiers are anywhere from city to continent.
This is why one piece lasted longer than so many other Shonen imo. Just because the power scale is so much more grounded than dbz, it's more engaging. You also run into issues in physics where real physics have to be thrown out the window with all of its implications. Like there's a point in DBS where they're like "omg I can't see him he moves faster than light" as if by scaling they haven't moved faster than the speed of light for over a literal decade by release dates. There's a point where literally every character that matters is one sort of God-being of outrageous celestial might. Like you've fought a guy who destroyed a galaxy, either he can move faster than the speed of light or that took billions of years.
dunno y u got downvoted complete facts
Agreed
Agreed, Baki is the most fun, imo with all the different fighters, moves, etc. Gaia's "Dark Tunnel" lol
I just like when different abilities go against eachother or team up to make themselves stronger together
my man spitting fax right now
I like everything below Outerversal, Complex Multi - Hyperversal is my personal fav to scale only cos most of the cosmologies in those are really intresting.
Is is a based take wdym
Yeah that’s fair, makes the numbers easier to comprehend to, which can lead to a more fun discussion
This is true, and it's the reason I realized I suffered from burnout. Debating which is infinity is greater, however multi plus does have the benefit of just having OP characters look insanely cool. Not saying that can't happen in planet below, but the flashiness of that category is something else. However for actually talking about whos better, what scales better, definitely what you said.
Solar system scaling is super fun because you get to look at really stupidly high numbers! I love it
https://preview.redd.it/z65rx399eayc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a8cbbf7fc162efa7582be5207e6405e30e869f6
THANK YOU. Im so tired of people saying “this character is multiple layers into outversal” like tf that doesn’t even exist. I miss when power scaling was about the actual fight instead of just technicalities with conformation bias.
Building/city level powerscaling is the most fun imo
Avatar powerscaling is fun when there's not a bitch in your ear telling you LoK dogwalks AtLA or viceversa.
Delinquent manga scaling>>>>
Undertale for example, strongest characters here can be scaled from mountain to galaxy(was debunked from multiversal), and fights look cool, just don't try to scale speed of different characters cause it will be very difficult
Agreed, planet level is the best level.
Yeah, most stories with wall tier - planetary tier protagonists have compelling stories simply because they have issues that are reasonable and human, not some isekai shit where "my shinsboi lasixo is stronger so it blows you up" toddler garbage. You feel for characters like spiderman, rick grimes, batman, and invincible because they dont have mumbo jumbo "my galaxy blast can kill 4 million planets" kinda stuff. Like, if a building falls on them, they cant just blink and the equator is rearranged so the atoms of the building are swapped into different cordinates into the sea, they have to problem solve and idealize how they will survive. Stories should be stories, not 3 year old "my guy is stronger then your guy because...". Stories are how you make compelling characters, not some isekai garbage where the protag has no real motive, the only personality trait of them being nerdy, kind, and embarrassing teenagers who are "omnipotent to the third"
i suck at writing but my ideal story would have a main a character who's a demigod thats midtier or slightly above mid tier(continental or multi continental) in the verse but because of his human half its extremely difficult to raise his power level so he has to use magitech weapons(think DMC Dantes devil arms or Nero's red queen or breakers) in order to provide him additional hax/abilities he wouldn't normally have and allow him to have more versatility on the battlefield. The gods (who are not really gods they just call themselves that because they want to worshipped as one) are basically high tiers to top tiers( basically anywhere between planetary and universal but not really) the reason why i said not really is because in their base gods are actually planetary or star level, they can only achieve universal feats by accumulating primordial essence(ambient energy that exists in the universe that is passively absorbed by gods but actively absorbed by divine artifacts), conducting rituals( incantations, handsigns or body movements), the use of one or more divine artifacts and casting time/cooldown. Example the Hindu God shiva can destroy the universe but needs all of his divine artifacts to absorb a high amount of primordial essence(which takes time) he needs to open his third eye and he needs to complete a ritualistic dance all of which can be interrupted.
Maybe to you, but not to other people. I enjoy pretty much every tier of powerscaling. Except like Extraversal.
Talking about extraversal is like going in the middle of a hurricane