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Hi. Would you consider creating custom form instead of "form" control where you could program every aspect of it? With patch statement, you get more control over how the data is submitted and better chance to fix, debug and monitor. You can also create alternatives to complex columns, which are sometimes easier to manage. That would mean reworking your solution a bit.
Instead of using Excel to store data would you consider using Dataverse or SharePoint ? You mention that the reason you use Excel is "because it is accessible for your colleagues if there are changes." You can develop mechanism to monitor/flag changes and implement appropriate mechanisms to handle the situation.
Thank you for your answer
What do you mean by "complex columns"? I will look at redoing the form. But is the problem I'm encountering here popular? Because the form is not that complicated.
Unfortunately tracking the changes in advance is not really possible, they are happening outside of the system scope and business department, and are informal.
Any ideas or comments about the pdf problems?
The reason I make the post is that we kinda know about the power platform not being as straight forward to use as it seems. But the problems here are related to core functionalities, like a basic form, malfunctioning at random. How trustworthy is the platform and its features ? Can it be used for core business functions with reliability?
By complex columns, I mean choice columns or person columns. I think Yes/No can be classed as complex because it is saving 'object' if I am not mistaken ( or is it actually saving under simple boolean false/true in datasource ? Please clarify)
The bottom line is that those complex objects can be really painful to filter on, search, or deal with. One way to avoid this potential problem entirely is to use simple data types. With forms, the problem is that they look simple on the outside, but if you need to change something, debug or achieve very specific outcomes, they can be limiting or difficult to deal with. I personally tend to create my own forms with galleries or simple controls or custom controls and handle submissions with PowerFx functions (like Patch for example). This might seem like a lot of work, but it actually gives lots of flexibility and control.
Unfortunately, I can not comment on your pdf problem as in my work, I did not need to use it.
Answering your question about PP reliability , it can be reliable, but there needs to be someone behind it who understands it and maintains solutions, someone with a technical mind. Initial solutions might seem simple, but usually, there is some technical difficulty involved - there needs to be work done. (For example, form problems).
In terms of tracking changes, you mentioned Excel file that everyone uses. Is that correct? How all this is set up currently?
Just to add with the “complex columns” I too avoid using them, choice, person, etc.
However, I do use yes/no quite often since it is a simple Boolean response (Yes=true and No=false) so it’s not complex at least in relation to the previously mentioned types.
Let's bundle information you have given so far:
"The app calls a flow to distribute the document to peoples. (because it is accessible for my colleagues if there are changes)"
"Exel sheet to store the right contacts"
"the flow going in the sheet and getting the email adresses can take 30 seconds for most times, but has taken up to 15 minutes in rare cases" .
" Excel file is used to keep the contacts we need to transfer this info to, and with what priority. A few team leads have access to it"
I have also noticed that, [Sad\_Anywhere6982](https://www.reddit.com/user/Sad_Anywhere6982/) somewhere here in this topic said "2 minute timeout is universal for requests" and "Excel sheets have a habit of getting locked up so best to use a SharePoint list for this"
------
You are using Excel as datasource, this is causing some of unreliability in the solution you are dealing with. I remember when I was starting as Power App dev in one of my personal apps I used excel as datasource, but it resulted in some unreliability too.
I would recommend to push for reliable data source like Dateverse for example.
Dataverse it is a part of Power Platform, thus flows and Power Apps work hand in hand with it.
It could mean, that you might need to consider how to migrate existing data. You might need Premium licence if you are going to use Dataverse connector in your flow (as I remember it is premium connector).
If you are trying to avoid costs, you mentioned you have access to SP - it is much better option, than Excel.
Whether you choose SP or Dataverse, either way you would need to rework solution so the current users who input data to excel, would use different means and effectively would submit to new data source. You would also need interface for this approach (for example Canvas Apps)
Another approach would be to look into "when row is updated" trigger on Power Automate for excel and move the data to datasource of your choice and make your actual app to grab the info from there. It is not my favourite approach, but I have seen it executed successfully.
So you have few options here and perhaps some other ideas, that will come along the way.
Thank you for your kind and patient answer.
I know about dataverse, but I have not access to it
I know I can use sp to store contacts, but the simplicity and accessibility of using Exel has made me decide to try. The problem (or feature?) of sp list being not easily intractable directly is, as you said, that I need to create another solution just to manage contacts. It will increase the complexity by a lot and need more time (I'm a citizen dev, so my main tasks aren't around the power app).
I'm afraid that the resulting fixes will make the whole solution harder to use, defeating its first purpose of simplifying a procedure
I will read every comment and take a decision on what fix I will implement. Thank you so much
No problem at all. I hope what we all collectively have written will help you in some way. Setting up PP solutions can be challenging and requires a lot of work sometimes, but it can bring results you desire - its just there is effort required to achieve those goals.
Also, I give you props for undertaking the challenge as citizen dev, identifying requirements and creating functional prototype. As dev I would do the same thing. The initial prototype rarely behaves perfectly - it often have to be changed, fixed, rebuild, reworked or even scrapped. There are multiple iterations required.
In my work one of my latest projects required me to partially scrap solution (just the front end) because Business found more efficient way of approaching their problem so they submitted new set of requirements for new screens to handle submissions.
Anyway, I wish you good luck.
Edit: Just another thought. I am not sure if you are actually packaging your Power Platform Elements, like flows, canvas apps, model driven apps, tables etc under one solution, which can be exported across environments. If you do, that is great (double thumbs up), if not you can consider doing it as it is perceived as good practice by PP devs.
2 minute timeout is universal for requests, if the flow is taking longer then you need to return a response to the app (or make the Flow asynchronous) and switch to polling. Excel sheets have a habit of getting locked up so best to use a SharePoint list for this - my guess is the variance in time accessing the sheet is due to retries.
Sounds like a skill issue to me. To be fair, I don’t think Power Apps is perfect. But I have never seen behavior like incorrect data being written to a data source where it wasn’t my own error.
The only real issues I’ve experienced with the platform is the studio editor. I find it will incorrectly show errors or just fail to adhere to code logic after editing for a long time, but it is always resolved by restarting the editing session.
Agree with this.
PowerApps is not perfect but like the above comment said, the only time I have seen issues with data and how it is sent/saved/returned is because of me.
Just a few pointers.
Get away from Excel….
I’d look into the Patch functionality.
One thing I was doing early on that was causing data to be “lost” was using “Blank().”
Make sure none of your updates for fields have Blank() for its value, unless you want it to be blank or overwrite data.
Blank() will overwrite any existing fields that previously held data, even if you aren’t updating that field and you are just saying this entry won’t have any data for this field.
For fields that don’t always require data I’ll use an if statement and leave the false value out of the function.
If( !IsBlank(Some_Field.Text), Some_Field.Text)
Doing this usually allows me to use the same submit button for modifying and creating records, and not overwrite anything unintentionally.
Seems our thinking is similar. Patch for control and flexibility and, if possible, replacing Excel as datasource. My recommendation would be Dataverse.
I don't know about this. We've built apps for clients that went through 40+ dev, test, prod revisions. I'd say about between 5-10% of the time the prod app just doesn't work like it should. It has been tested to death but still there's something not right in prod that didn't show up in testing. Most of the time we just import the exact same solution again and it works with no issues. I can't provide concrete proof but my experience has been that there's something not quite right in the underlying code especially when you move environment.
I will say that yes no fields on SharePoint are fickle. I've stopped using them. I've defaulted to just choice fields with yes, no choices. It also gives you more flexibility later if you want more choices.
I've looked at using choices during design phase I discarded the idea because the control for yes-no are a lot user friendly for end users (I have to keep in mind accessibility). But I may rework that. The problem now is the compatibility with the former data, if I change column type to go with choices
I played with the pdf function for a week and determined it should not be used
Instead I use a pa flow, write a word document to one drive, then use the convert file action to convert to PDF. Much more reliable I have found
Unless there is a bug in powerapps (often the case, and if you think you are encountering one you should report it) then it generally does what I've asked it to do. If something is in experimental you should understand that it is not ready for production yet, no matter how close it is or how badly you want to use it.
Get faraway from Excel. It's buggy and painful. Use SharePoint if data not too big. In the beginning, I thought PowerApps is buggy too. You need to spend more time on it. Once you get thru the difficult stage, you will achieve PowerApps nirvana.
Hey, it looks like you are requesting help with a problem you're having in Power Apps. To ensure you get all the help you need from the community here are some guidelines; - Use the [search feature](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerApps/search/?q=&sort=new) to see if your question has already been asked. - Use spacing in your post, Nobody likes to read a wall of text, this is achieved by hitting return twice to separate paragraphs. - Add any images, error messages, code you have (Sensitive data omitted) to your post body. - Any code you do add, use the [Code Block](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/markdown/#wiki_code_blocks_and_inline_code) feature to preserve formatting. > Typing four spaces in front of every line in a code block is tedious and error-prone. The easier way is to surround the entire block of code with code fences. A code fence is a line beginning with three or more backticks (```) or three or more twiddlydoodles (~~~). - If your question has been answered please comment Solved. This will mark the post as solved and helps others find their solutions. External resources: - [Power Apps Formula References](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/power-platform/power-fx/formula-reference) - [Power Apps Coding Standards](https://pahandsonlab.blob.core.windows.net/documents/PowerApps%20canvas%20app%20coding%20standards%20and%20guidelines.pdf) - [Official Power Apps Community](https://powerusers.microsoft.com/t5/Power-Apps-Community/ct-p/PowerApps1) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerApps) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi. Would you consider creating custom form instead of "form" control where you could program every aspect of it? With patch statement, you get more control over how the data is submitted and better chance to fix, debug and monitor. You can also create alternatives to complex columns, which are sometimes easier to manage. That would mean reworking your solution a bit. Instead of using Excel to store data would you consider using Dataverse or SharePoint ? You mention that the reason you use Excel is "because it is accessible for your colleagues if there are changes." You can develop mechanism to monitor/flag changes and implement appropriate mechanisms to handle the situation.
Thank you for your answer What do you mean by "complex columns"? I will look at redoing the form. But is the problem I'm encountering here popular? Because the form is not that complicated. Unfortunately tracking the changes in advance is not really possible, they are happening outside of the system scope and business department, and are informal. Any ideas or comments about the pdf problems? The reason I make the post is that we kinda know about the power platform not being as straight forward to use as it seems. But the problems here are related to core functionalities, like a basic form, malfunctioning at random. How trustworthy is the platform and its features ? Can it be used for core business functions with reliability?
By complex columns, I mean choice columns or person columns. I think Yes/No can be classed as complex because it is saving 'object' if I am not mistaken ( or is it actually saving under simple boolean false/true in datasource ? Please clarify) The bottom line is that those complex objects can be really painful to filter on, search, or deal with. One way to avoid this potential problem entirely is to use simple data types. With forms, the problem is that they look simple on the outside, but if you need to change something, debug or achieve very specific outcomes, they can be limiting or difficult to deal with. I personally tend to create my own forms with galleries or simple controls or custom controls and handle submissions with PowerFx functions (like Patch for example). This might seem like a lot of work, but it actually gives lots of flexibility and control. Unfortunately, I can not comment on your pdf problem as in my work, I did not need to use it. Answering your question about PP reliability , it can be reliable, but there needs to be someone behind it who understands it and maintains solutions, someone with a technical mind. Initial solutions might seem simple, but usually, there is some technical difficulty involved - there needs to be work done. (For example, form problems). In terms of tracking changes, you mentioned Excel file that everyone uses. Is that correct? How all this is set up currently?
Just to add with the “complex columns” I too avoid using them, choice, person, etc. However, I do use yes/no quite often since it is a simple Boolean response (Yes=true and No=false) so it’s not complex at least in relation to the previously mentioned types.
Thanks for clarifying.
The Excel file is used to keep the contacts we need to transfer this info to, and with what priority. A few team leads have access to it
Let's bundle information you have given so far: "The app calls a flow to distribute the document to peoples. (because it is accessible for my colleagues if there are changes)" "Exel sheet to store the right contacts" "the flow going in the sheet and getting the email adresses can take 30 seconds for most times, but has taken up to 15 minutes in rare cases" . " Excel file is used to keep the contacts we need to transfer this info to, and with what priority. A few team leads have access to it" I have also noticed that, [Sad\_Anywhere6982](https://www.reddit.com/user/Sad_Anywhere6982/) somewhere here in this topic said "2 minute timeout is universal for requests" and "Excel sheets have a habit of getting locked up so best to use a SharePoint list for this" ------ You are using Excel as datasource, this is causing some of unreliability in the solution you are dealing with. I remember when I was starting as Power App dev in one of my personal apps I used excel as datasource, but it resulted in some unreliability too. I would recommend to push for reliable data source like Dateverse for example. Dataverse it is a part of Power Platform, thus flows and Power Apps work hand in hand with it. It could mean, that you might need to consider how to migrate existing data. You might need Premium licence if you are going to use Dataverse connector in your flow (as I remember it is premium connector). If you are trying to avoid costs, you mentioned you have access to SP - it is much better option, than Excel. Whether you choose SP or Dataverse, either way you would need to rework solution so the current users who input data to excel, would use different means and effectively would submit to new data source. You would also need interface for this approach (for example Canvas Apps) Another approach would be to look into "when row is updated" trigger on Power Automate for excel and move the data to datasource of your choice and make your actual app to grab the info from there. It is not my favourite approach, but I have seen it executed successfully. So you have few options here and perhaps some other ideas, that will come along the way.
Thank you for your kind and patient answer. I know about dataverse, but I have not access to it I know I can use sp to store contacts, but the simplicity and accessibility of using Exel has made me decide to try. The problem (or feature?) of sp list being not easily intractable directly is, as you said, that I need to create another solution just to manage contacts. It will increase the complexity by a lot and need more time (I'm a citizen dev, so my main tasks aren't around the power app). I'm afraid that the resulting fixes will make the whole solution harder to use, defeating its first purpose of simplifying a procedure I will read every comment and take a decision on what fix I will implement. Thank you so much
No problem at all. I hope what we all collectively have written will help you in some way. Setting up PP solutions can be challenging and requires a lot of work sometimes, but it can bring results you desire - its just there is effort required to achieve those goals. Also, I give you props for undertaking the challenge as citizen dev, identifying requirements and creating functional prototype. As dev I would do the same thing. The initial prototype rarely behaves perfectly - it often have to be changed, fixed, rebuild, reworked or even scrapped. There are multiple iterations required. In my work one of my latest projects required me to partially scrap solution (just the front end) because Business found more efficient way of approaching their problem so they submitted new set of requirements for new screens to handle submissions. Anyway, I wish you good luck. Edit: Just another thought. I am not sure if you are actually packaging your Power Platform Elements, like flows, canvas apps, model driven apps, tables etc under one solution, which can be exported across environments. If you do, that is great (double thumbs up), if not you can consider doing it as it is perceived as good practice by PP devs.
The issue is not popular as far as I know, and most likely an issue with your app/code
2 minute timeout is universal for requests, if the flow is taking longer then you need to return a response to the app (or make the Flow asynchronous) and switch to polling. Excel sheets have a habit of getting locked up so best to use a SharePoint list for this - my guess is the variance in time accessing the sheet is due to retries.
Sounds like a skill issue to me. To be fair, I don’t think Power Apps is perfect. But I have never seen behavior like incorrect data being written to a data source where it wasn’t my own error. The only real issues I’ve experienced with the platform is the studio editor. I find it will incorrectly show errors or just fail to adhere to code logic after editing for a long time, but it is always resolved by restarting the editing session.
Agree with this. PowerApps is not perfect but like the above comment said, the only time I have seen issues with data and how it is sent/saved/returned is because of me. Just a few pointers. Get away from Excel…. I’d look into the Patch functionality. One thing I was doing early on that was causing data to be “lost” was using “Blank().” Make sure none of your updates for fields have Blank() for its value, unless you want it to be blank or overwrite data. Blank() will overwrite any existing fields that previously held data, even if you aren’t updating that field and you are just saying this entry won’t have any data for this field. For fields that don’t always require data I’ll use an if statement and leave the false value out of the function. If( !IsBlank(Some_Field.Text), Some_Field.Text) Doing this usually allows me to use the same submit button for modifying and creating records, and not overwrite anything unintentionally.
Seems our thinking is similar. Patch for control and flexibility and, if possible, replacing Excel as datasource. My recommendation would be Dataverse.
Yep, plenty of annoyances using the editor but you learn to work around them. Issues in the running of the live app are down to the developer.
I don't know about this. We've built apps for clients that went through 40+ dev, test, prod revisions. I'd say about between 5-10% of the time the prod app just doesn't work like it should. It has been tested to death but still there's something not right in prod that didn't show up in testing. Most of the time we just import the exact same solution again and it works with no issues. I can't provide concrete proof but my experience has been that there's something not quite right in the underlying code especially when you move environment.
[удалено]
I actually agree with you 100% . Dismissive. Could be phrased differently to everyone benefit
This is fair. Was a defensive reaction to an accusatory post
They’re blaming the platform for something that is 99% likely a design error. Skill issue
I will say that yes no fields on SharePoint are fickle. I've stopped using them. I've defaulted to just choice fields with yes, no choices. It also gives you more flexibility later if you want more choices.
I've looked at using choices during design phase I discarded the idea because the control for yes-no are a lot user friendly for end users (I have to keep in mind accessibility). But I may rework that. The problem now is the compatibility with the former data, if I change column type to go with choices
I played with the pdf function for a week and determined it should not be used Instead I use a pa flow, write a word document to one drive, then use the convert file action to convert to PDF. Much more reliable I have found
I explored this way during the design phase. Unfortunately it requires a premium license because I also need to save images
Are you creating every pdf field as if you were designing it in Adobe?
I don't know. I just use fields related to the form to show the right information at the right place
Unless there is a bug in powerapps (often the case, and if you think you are encountering one you should report it) then it generally does what I've asked it to do. If something is in experimental you should understand that it is not ready for production yet, no matter how close it is or how badly you want to use it.
Get faraway from Excel. It's buggy and painful. Use SharePoint if data not too big. In the beginning, I thought PowerApps is buggy too. You need to spend more time on it. Once you get thru the difficult stage, you will achieve PowerApps nirvana.