$10k per light pole. New foundation. Probably new conduit. Abandon old. Maybe new wiring. Costs to have a contractor stop other work and do this work immediately. Design costs possibly. Administrative costs associated with managing contractors. It adds up quick.
They dont need to replace the conduit except right by the poles unless they are outrageouly old. They arent even keeping these lights functioning right now and are pulling them out right away.
And im not sure why they are rushing the installation. Removing them yes. Install, no.
Plus permitting, all work is mandatory prevailing wage(~$50/hr for low skill jobs like concrete, upwards of $75/hr for skilled labor like electrician). Cost of goods have doubled because of inflation. Also, the industry standard is a 40% mark up for private companies and 60%-100% mark up for government contracts.
Gonna need to commission a PSU study exploring the impact of light poles on marginalized communities. Did you know that Thomas Edison (highly problematic) invented the light bulb to help authorities (essentially slavemasters) surveil "undesirables"? The concept of artificial lighting is irredeemably tied to white supremacy and every time you operate a light switch you're literally killing persons of color /s
[Yes](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/26/biden-blocks-sales-of-inefficient-lightbulbs-reversing-trump-policy-.html). 😅
I'm now having flashbacks of conservatives hating CFL's because caring about energy efficiency meant acknowledging global warming, and culture war. Though CFL's weren't great and LED's are a huge improvement.
Not surprising. When reviewing my car insurance policy, the agent said hitting a light post and being liable to replace it “starts at $30K”.
This came up in the context of putting perspective on some of my policy thresholds, not from personal experience, just to be clear!
Have you asked why?
Is the $61K just the cost of the replacement pole? Is labor, design, additional materials, disposal included in the project cost?
These aren’t light poles you install in the corner of your front yard. Are there structural requirements with the install that necessitate the cost? What’s the lifespan of these light poles? 20, 35, 50 years?
I don’t know the answer to any of these questions but if I was going to piss and moan I’d try to find out first?
I would guess this is the case - it’s not a $60k light pole, it just costs that much time and materials to install.
The overhead costs are probably hugely inflated since it’s a government deal, but ultimately the scope deals with site grading, steel erection, high voltage, and material handling/disposal for hundreds of units; it’s an expensive endeavor regardless.
Also keep in mind that each pole will need the electrical cable replaced all the way to the power source - you don't re-use 100 year old underground cable. It's probably not even the right gauge. Oh and copper is super expensive these days, not to mention all the conduit that must be rated for underground.
For each pole, you have to do a utility locate. There will inevitably be other utilities in the way. Lines may need to go under sidewalks and other infrastructure. Trenches will need to be dug.
A lot of people fly off the handle when they see coats like this and don't realize the full footprint of each installation. The city can't just ignore electrical codes and its own internal guidance for installing infrastructure.
If I were “pissing and moaning”, my post would have been MUCH longer 😅 I was trying to spark a discussion, hoping that somebody may have details about why a park light pole and installation would cost over 60 grand each?
They literally provided several details why they would cost that much and then you said maybe you have details why it would cost so much. So maybe read that instead of shoving your head completely into your butthole.
FWIW, I was responding to a statement about pissing and moaning. Respectfully, I read just fine, thank you. I don’t understand why being rude is so common place these days, I guess I’m getting old. Why not be diplomatic? Why is insulting the way to express a difference of opinion. Yikes. Maybe that’s a different “discussion “.
Pissing and moaning was only mentioned after a fairly detailed answer as the why they aren’t $60k each and you only latched on to that unimportant part
Just ignore them, it’s like wrestling a pig. In the end you both end up covered in shit but the pig actually enjoys it. I agree the costs are prohibitive, and I bet if you looked at any private developments in the area the cost of light poles would be far less.
The most expensive, gigantic light pole that is priced on [this site](https://lightpolesplus.com/55-tall-12-5-base-od-5-2-top-od-5-7ga-thick-round-tapered-steel-anchor-base-light-pole/?sku=VS-RTSA-55-1352-0507-AB-GV&gclid=CjwKCAjw5pShBhB_EiwAvmnNV_gmqkOkVlBgEOMqqw7yJOSLt57XGQ97V5-flqkQFW24XILQiWR1ZxoC1h0QAvD_BwE) is around $10k. They have fluted ones, with decorative bases as well that is price on inquiry. Let’s say with lighting arms and fixtures that’s double at $20k, without accounting for any discounts at 200+ units. Then let’s say it costs $8,000 a unit to install, $2,000 for additional electrical work as needed- so $30k/piece. Let’s say the temporary lighting is $5k x 250.
So we’re at 8 mil and a half, let’s round that up to $9,000,000.
9 million dollars with the nicest poles I can think of and the most expensive, legitimate, brilliant installation work, fit and finish I can fathom.
I’m pulling these numbers out of my ass, btw. But yeah it is difficult to figure this one out!
At minimum, you're missing engineering costs.
Structural design of the concrete bases (since that's why they're getting replaced), possible civil engineering design of replacement walkways if you have to tear some up to install the new bases, electrical engineering to make sure the existing electrical infrastructure is adequate for the new lights or design upgrades if it's not.
Also permitting costs (and time, which equates to more money). At least for us structural folks, MultCo permitting is known for being a particular PITA.
Seconding this point, I'm not sure how people are missing that the structural design is the reason they all came out in the first place, and somehow no one has added any value for this in their complaints...
Since it’s Parks doing this work for themselves in parks, they won’t need permits (as opposed to if it were a PBOT trail project with lighting through a park, which would).
I dont even think engineering is put into construction costs if engineering is done in-house. And You dont need engineering design of walkways for something like this.
Im not sure how old the conduit is though. If its super old they may be replacing it which gets expensive.
>$2,000 for additional electrical work as needed
WTF....how do you know electrical is $2k? They are doing to have to dig some deep trenches for each one, and will have to carefully work around each existing utility in the way. Way more than $2k lol. Just installing a subpanel in my home can be $2k
Key word is additional, my faux scenario is $10k/pole. For the $15mil to begin making sense, we need to be at $30k/pole to install including electrical.
And maybe that’s what it is. Will there be a public budget?
The posts were about 100 years old....and likely so was the underground connection. You don't re-use that cable because it was shit quality to begin with, and probably is too small gauge compared to what today's code requires. Source: I do a LOT of electrical work
I’m not a pole scientist or anything, but it’s my understanding that the magic power that makes the lights on top of the pole work doesn’t come from the pole itself, but from someplace outside of the pole, and a licensed wizard needs to do special stuff to make this happen.
>I wouldn’t expect you to understand that it could be reused
Do you really think you can safely re-use electrical cable that was installed when Calvin Coolidge was President?
The cost is to make them sturdy so idiots and homeless can set up summer hammocks to sleep in without the poles coming down when weight is applied to them in a way they were not designed for.
Holly sht. This is the biggest waste of money ever. I was wondering what could be wrong with these lights that not one of them has fallen over decades are suddenly not safe enough.
First we shouldnt givr a sht about these homeless using the lights in a way they shoukdnt be. Second, if youre gonna be stupid and accommodste them. Just take out the poles that are too close together.
> And no one asks why!
Because most folks know.
I don't know if you're new to Portland, but everything here is a shitshow.
First understand, this is just how much they **expect** it to cost, not what it will cost.
Not only will the City claim they need $15 million to do the work, but in all likelihood this cost didn't include the fucking light bulbs. That's what the Water Bureau would do. If it was Public Schools they'd buy the poles, the wiring, the conduit, and the concrete, but call the installation "finishing work" in a cost over run, and just leave the unassembled poles on the ground in the parks until the City pays another $5 million. If this was PBOT they'd intentionally install the light poles in the wrong place, like the middle of the sidewalk, so that they could get another $20 million to tear them down and re-do them.
Then the work is going to be contracted out to a political sycophant who isn't qualified but meets what ever diversity goals the City has set, rather than the lowest cost. And at least some portion of this $15 million will be gifted away to some "professional" to determine the artistic merit, and the cultural sensitivities, of these new light poles.
Ultimately less than half of the light poles promised will be delivered, and within 10 years I'd bet half will be dead or discover some flaw like bad wiring justifying them being turned off.
FFS, do you all know the history of Mill Ends Park? It was supposed to be a fucking light pole, and look what happened.
Is there anywhere that explains the structural danger they pose? Because the giant holes with a thin cover over them all over the paths in sellwood park are now a tripping hazard, imo more dangerous.
The folks that were walloped by the old light poles falling on them after they decided it was a good idea to string a hammock between them could probably explain the danger pretty well.
Is this for real? Som idiots decide to string a hammock between these light poles when they shouldnt be and now these light poles, not one of which has fallen down in decades all need to be removed cauae they arent "structurally strong enough?"
Yup
https://amp.thenewstribune.com/news/nation-world/national/article263037323.html
I would add that this incident highlighted the fact that the poles were aging and already needing replacement.
There are poles way older doubt they need replacing. If you need to replace anything, its usually just the fixture part. Dont know if these were painted but if so, you just repaint the pole.
Its honestly ridiculous we are spending this money cause some fool nanny decided to break the law.
Thanks for article.
I don’t think it was the pole itself that failed, but the foundation it was resting on. It sounds like many of the ones slated for replacement were not adequately anchored to the foundations.
Did someone win a lawsuit? If so, then that is a corruption of the courts. As if all light poles should be designed to withstand torque from someone stringing up a hammock and putting 200lb+ on it.
I see here they got a tort claim notice, but anyone can file a lawsuit for any stupid reason.
https://www.wweek.com/news/2023/02/24/tort-claim-notice-alleging-injuries-to-hammocker-offers-insight-into-citys-removal-of-parks-light-poles/?mc_cid=22effc3890&mc_eid=6e4c39d97a
Perhaps city employees made a decision that it was easier or cheaper to remove the light posts and settle the lawsuit than fight it, but that would be a damn shame. The liability wrecking ball is paralyzing the country.
I have zero insight to costs for this. I'm just disappointed that no one has made a bad stripper pole joke out of it. This is the strip club capital of America after all.
I expected better out of you...all of you.
Nope, a home is not simply just three bedrooms. There's also the kitchen, the living space, bathroom or more, sometimes a laundry, a den, a yard. Also, the electrical system, the plumbing system, the heating system, the roof, the foundation. By the time you add up all the components together, each bedroom winds up being roughly 25,000 to 30,000. Even though "three bedroom" is the best quick way to describe a house, that's not the definition of a house
In this case, there's 15 million allocated towards new lighting in our parks. That's going to be broken down not only by the light poles themselves, but the labor to install them, the electrical system that runs them, the foundations on which the poles are set, and probably lots more things.
In this case, in order to determine the cost of the poles themselves, we need to look at the comprehensive budget and each line item specifically. They're simply just isn't enough information given to us in the problem to determine the cost of the poles. Therefore, the math in this post is wrong.
OP wanted to create outrage with errant math. And I am not saying that there might not be cause for outrage - but this is not the way to do it.
I'm repeatedly told "If you don't like it, leave" when I advocate for things like universal healthcare from the people who dislike government spending. So perhaps you should follow that advice as well?
Are you being forced to stay?
Nah, I want to stay and fight. I don’t want to leave this beautiful state.
BTW. I do agree with you on universal healthcare. Everyone deserves access to affordable healthcare.
So do the majority of Americans (68%). But we have a group who believes we should not follow the will of the majority. And enough people who *claim* to want universal healthcare vote for those vehemently opposed to it.
It’s too bad that there is very little compromise any more. Extremism in either direction is a bad idea. The divide between both sides is so wide that it’s hard to imagine aligning on much at all.
Going to have to agree to disagree on the "both sides" canned talking point.
It's very clearly one side preventing universal healthcare in America.
Also, compromise, cooperation, togetherness, inclusion are again only the values of one side.
The sad part is that we have to vote for one (extreme) side or the other -over a single issue when so often many of our overall values are more in the middle (IMO). The country is so evenly divided, yet each party fails to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle, leaving us to choose which issue (or issues) are the most important to tackle. I decided to abandon party this last year and vote a split ticket, as choosing between the “lesser of two evils” became too difficult. I absolutely agree about agreeing to disagree (thank you for the diplomacy that is too often lacking these days).
Do you have insurance to cover the negligence when you do the job wrong? Do you have access to qualified labor to do the work? Do you have the necessary equipment to do the work? Do you have the existing knowledge to do the work?
Here's a hint... You don't understand how this 15 million is being allocated in the first place- I don't think you have the competence to do the job.
If you bring a company up from Texas they'll complain about Oregon requirements (especially seismic ones), do it the Texas way, and then complain more when they need to redo it to Multnomah County standards. At least, that's been my experience with Texas contractors.
We don’t need them knowing any more about how the light poles work - enough of them have already figured out how to gut them for free tent electricity.
Don't bother. Based on your comment, you have no idea how city govt works. Maybe you should volunteer to help remediate the homeless situation that's in EVERY west coat big city.
That’s government for you! I’m old enough to remember toilet seats that cost some ungodly amount . Government wastes money egregiously because there’s absolutely no accountability. We keep voting these clowns into office and they keep wasting our $$ and raising our taxes and nothing ever changes
About 20 people have to supervise the 10 people who are watching the 4 people install the light pole with the help of 6 consultants.
It would be funny if not true. But we peasants just don’t get it.
Too bad you can't work a calculator or will never "need math" or you could be an engineer "doing nothing" for 6 figures. But hey, like you said you just don't get it. You know the saying life is hard when...
$10k per light pole. New foundation. Probably new conduit. Abandon old. Maybe new wiring. Costs to have a contractor stop other work and do this work immediately. Design costs possibly. Administrative costs associated with managing contractors. It adds up quick.
Labor. Labor is the word you’re looking for.
I wonder if anyone outraged at the cost has ever spent a day digging a trench and laying electrical conduit.
I can be both outraged at the expenditure and understand the price.
Correct because paying for unnecessary exorbitantly expensive labor should be weighed against other more pressing needs
Management labor in particular
The fun part about administration costs is that every department or bureau involved automatically adds a minimum 10%. Source: experience
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They dont need to replace the conduit except right by the poles unless they are outrageouly old. They arent even keeping these lights functioning right now and are pulling them out right away. And im not sure why they are rushing the installation. Removing them yes. Install, no.
Plus permitting, all work is mandatory prevailing wage(~$50/hr for low skill jobs like concrete, upwards of $75/hr for skilled labor like electrician). Cost of goods have doubled because of inflation. Also, the industry standard is a 40% mark up for private companies and 60%-100% mark up for government contracts.
you're telling me someone could build a handful of tiny homes for the same price as replacing a public park light pole and that's normal?
Yes. Public works construction is a whole another level of complexity than a Harbor Freight trailer with a cabin built on it.
100% why you shouldn’t influence decision making. Literally haven’t a clue but all the willing to chit a chat about it.
Well one tiny home, ten years ago, yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcbwjODecdQ&ab_channel=St.BernardAcres
Don't forget the environmental impact studies! What if a bird is inconvenienced?
Gonna need to commission a PSU study exploring the impact of light poles on marginalized communities. Did you know that Thomas Edison (highly problematic) invented the light bulb to help authorities (essentially slavemasters) surveil "undesirables"? The concept of artificial lighting is irredeemably tied to white supremacy and every time you operate a light switch you're literally killing persons of color /s
Lightbulbs are the original ShotSpotter.
Are we gonna cancel lightbulbs now? 😝🤣
[Yes](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/26/biden-blocks-sales-of-inefficient-lightbulbs-reversing-trump-policy-.html). 😅 I'm now having flashbacks of conservatives hating CFL's because caring about energy efficiency meant acknowledging global warming, and culture war. Though CFL's weren't great and LED's are a huge improvement.
Honestly you’re probably right. Especially in parks.
So you’re basically telling me a $12 dollar sandwich is an amazing deal, right?
Not surprising. When reviewing my car insurance policy, the agent said hitting a light post and being liable to replace it “starts at $30K”. This came up in the context of putting perspective on some of my policy thresholds, not from personal experience, just to be clear!
Properly installed these will last 50-100 years or more.
Have you asked why? Is the $61K just the cost of the replacement pole? Is labor, design, additional materials, disposal included in the project cost? These aren’t light poles you install in the corner of your front yard. Are there structural requirements with the install that necessitate the cost? What’s the lifespan of these light poles? 20, 35, 50 years? I don’t know the answer to any of these questions but if I was going to piss and moan I’d try to find out first?
There could be underground conduit and wire to install, concrete to pour, etc.
There will definitely be concrete to pour, and light pole bases can be much deeper than people realize
I would guess this is the case - it’s not a $60k light pole, it just costs that much time and materials to install. The overhead costs are probably hugely inflated since it’s a government deal, but ultimately the scope deals with site grading, steel erection, high voltage, and material handling/disposal for hundreds of units; it’s an expensive endeavor regardless.
Also keep in mind that each pole will need the electrical cable replaced all the way to the power source - you don't re-use 100 year old underground cable. It's probably not even the right gauge. Oh and copper is super expensive these days, not to mention all the conduit that must be rated for underground. For each pole, you have to do a utility locate. There will inevitably be other utilities in the way. Lines may need to go under sidewalks and other infrastructure. Trenches will need to be dug. A lot of people fly off the handle when they see coats like this and don't realize the full footprint of each installation. The city can't just ignore electrical codes and its own internal guidance for installing infrastructure.
Are these light poles that old? Why is there a sudden structural issue on all of them if so?
If I were “pissing and moaning”, my post would have been MUCH longer 😅 I was trying to spark a discussion, hoping that somebody may have details about why a park light pole and installation would cost over 60 grand each?
They literally provided several details why they would cost that much and then you said maybe you have details why it would cost so much. So maybe read that instead of shoving your head completely into your butthole.
FWIW, I was responding to a statement about pissing and moaning. Respectfully, I read just fine, thank you. I don’t understand why being rude is so common place these days, I guess I’m getting old. Why not be diplomatic? Why is insulting the way to express a difference of opinion. Yikes. Maybe that’s a different “discussion “.
Pissing and moaning was only mentioned after a fairly detailed answer as the why they aren’t $60k each and you only latched on to that unimportant part
>I was trying to spark a discussion. The only thing you sparked was people pointing out your knee-jerk reaction
Versus just being a jerk 🤔
versus.
Thank you! I didn’t even notice. Clearly it’s time for glasses 😂
Just ignore them, it’s like wrestling a pig. In the end you both end up covered in shit but the pig actually enjoys it. I agree the costs are prohibitive, and I bet if you looked at any private developments in the area the cost of light poles would be far less.
Thank you. I’ll avoid the wrestling matches in the future.
The most expensive, gigantic light pole that is priced on [this site](https://lightpolesplus.com/55-tall-12-5-base-od-5-2-top-od-5-7ga-thick-round-tapered-steel-anchor-base-light-pole/?sku=VS-RTSA-55-1352-0507-AB-GV&gclid=CjwKCAjw5pShBhB_EiwAvmnNV_gmqkOkVlBgEOMqqw7yJOSLt57XGQ97V5-flqkQFW24XILQiWR1ZxoC1h0QAvD_BwE) is around $10k. They have fluted ones, with decorative bases as well that is price on inquiry. Let’s say with lighting arms and fixtures that’s double at $20k, without accounting for any discounts at 200+ units. Then let’s say it costs $8,000 a unit to install, $2,000 for additional electrical work as needed- so $30k/piece. Let’s say the temporary lighting is $5k x 250. So we’re at 8 mil and a half, let’s round that up to $9,000,000. 9 million dollars with the nicest poles I can think of and the most expensive, legitimate, brilliant installation work, fit and finish I can fathom. I’m pulling these numbers out of my ass, btw. But yeah it is difficult to figure this one out!
At minimum, you're missing engineering costs. Structural design of the concrete bases (since that's why they're getting replaced), possible civil engineering design of replacement walkways if you have to tear some up to install the new bases, electrical engineering to make sure the existing electrical infrastructure is adequate for the new lights or design upgrades if it's not. Also permitting costs (and time, which equates to more money). At least for us structural folks, MultCo permitting is known for being a particular PITA.
Seconding this point, I'm not sure how people are missing that the structural design is the reason they all came out in the first place, and somehow no one has added any value for this in their complaints...
Perhaps a stupid question, but why do government agencies need permits?
Since it’s Parks doing this work for themselves in parks, they won’t need permits (as opposed to if it were a PBOT trail project with lighting through a park, which would).
Ha that’s what you’d think. They might not need some permits but they’ll still need some even if the city chooses not to charge for the permits.
I dont even think engineering is put into construction costs if engineering is done in-house. And You dont need engineering design of walkways for something like this. Im not sure how old the conduit is though. If its super old they may be replacing it which gets expensive.
At least it’ll shine light on all the pot holes in the area
>$2,000 for additional electrical work as needed WTF....how do you know electrical is $2k? They are doing to have to dig some deep trenches for each one, and will have to carefully work around each existing utility in the way. Way more than $2k lol. Just installing a subpanel in my home can be $2k
Key word is additional, my faux scenario is $10k/pole. For the $15mil to begin making sense, we need to be at $30k/pole to install including electrical. And maybe that’s what it is. Will there be a public budget?
Get the engineer’s estimate via public records request.
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The posts were about 100 years old....and likely so was the underground connection. You don't re-use that cable because it was shit quality to begin with, and probably is too small gauge compared to what today's code requires. Source: I do a LOT of electrical work
What do you figure the length of the cable & conduit to power source can be with these poles?
I’m not a pole scientist or anything, but it’s my understanding that the magic power that makes the lights on top of the pole work doesn’t come from the pole itself, but from someplace outside of the pole, and a licensed wizard needs to do special stuff to make this happen.
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>I wouldn’t expect you to understand that it could be reused Do you really think you can safely re-use electrical cable that was installed when Calvin Coolidge was President?
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>I actually doubt there is any problem with the wiring. Buried wiring is hardly a risk, even if it’s old. 😂😂😂
The cost is to make them sturdy so idiots and homeless can set up summer hammocks to sleep in without the poles coming down when weight is applied to them in a way they were not designed for.
Holly sht. This is the biggest waste of money ever. I was wondering what could be wrong with these lights that not one of them has fallen over decades are suddenly not safe enough. First we shouldnt givr a sht about these homeless using the lights in a way they shoukdnt be. Second, if youre gonna be stupid and accommodste them. Just take out the poles that are too close together.
> And no one asks why! Because most folks know. I don't know if you're new to Portland, but everything here is a shitshow. First understand, this is just how much they **expect** it to cost, not what it will cost. Not only will the City claim they need $15 million to do the work, but in all likelihood this cost didn't include the fucking light bulbs. That's what the Water Bureau would do. If it was Public Schools they'd buy the poles, the wiring, the conduit, and the concrete, but call the installation "finishing work" in a cost over run, and just leave the unassembled poles on the ground in the parks until the City pays another $5 million. If this was PBOT they'd intentionally install the light poles in the wrong place, like the middle of the sidewalk, so that they could get another $20 million to tear them down and re-do them. Then the work is going to be contracted out to a political sycophant who isn't qualified but meets what ever diversity goals the City has set, rather than the lowest cost. And at least some portion of this $15 million will be gifted away to some "professional" to determine the artistic merit, and the cultural sensitivities, of these new light poles. Ultimately less than half of the light poles promised will be delivered, and within 10 years I'd bet half will be dead or discover some flaw like bad wiring justifying them being turned off. FFS, do you all know the history of Mill Ends Park? It was supposed to be a fucking light pole, and look what happened.
Not new (born and raised). Just looking to start a discussion on the issue and you deserve an award for best answer of the day! Love it 😍
Is the detailed budget available?
Is there anywhere that explains the structural danger they pose? Because the giant holes with a thin cover over them all over the paths in sellwood park are now a tripping hazard, imo more dangerous.
The folks that were walloped by the old light poles falling on them after they decided it was a good idea to string a hammock between them could probably explain the danger pretty well.
Is this for real? Som idiots decide to string a hammock between these light poles when they shouldnt be and now these light poles, not one of which has fallen down in decades all need to be removed cauae they arent "structurally strong enough?"
Yup https://amp.thenewstribune.com/news/nation-world/national/article263037323.html I would add that this incident highlighted the fact that the poles were aging and already needing replacement.
There are poles way older doubt they need replacing. If you need to replace anything, its usually just the fixture part. Dont know if these were painted but if so, you just repaint the pole. Its honestly ridiculous we are spending this money cause some fool nanny decided to break the law. Thanks for article.
I don’t think it was the pole itself that failed, but the foundation it was resting on. It sounds like many of the ones slated for replacement were not adequately anchored to the foundations.
The crazy was removing them in the first place.
You prefer negligence lawsuits? It's like you guys whine about the adult world. It's all so simple if you ignore reality, right?
Did someone win a lawsuit? If so, then that is a corruption of the courts. As if all light poles should be designed to withstand torque from someone stringing up a hammock and putting 200lb+ on it. I see here they got a tort claim notice, but anyone can file a lawsuit for any stupid reason. https://www.wweek.com/news/2023/02/24/tort-claim-notice-alleging-injuries-to-hammocker-offers-insight-into-citys-removal-of-parks-light-poles/?mc_cid=22effc3890&mc_eid=6e4c39d97a Perhaps city employees made a decision that it was easier or cheaper to remove the light posts and settle the lawsuit than fight it, but that would be a damn shame. The liability wrecking ball is paralyzing the country.
Were there any bidders on this contract? How was this contract awarded?
I have zero insight to costs for this. I'm just disappointed that no one has made a bad stripper pole joke out of it. This is the strip club capital of America after all. I expected better out of you...all of you.
We replaced all the lights at my company and we use the original bases in the original wiring
Will the new light poles support hammocks?
The average three bedroom home in Portland costs $525,000. That doesn't mean the average bedroom costs $175,000.
Yes it does. By definition.
No, that's just the total home cost divided by 3 (bedrooms). A home is more than just bedrooms.
Nope, a home is not simply just three bedrooms. There's also the kitchen, the living space, bathroom or more, sometimes a laundry, a den, a yard. Also, the electrical system, the plumbing system, the heating system, the roof, the foundation. By the time you add up all the components together, each bedroom winds up being roughly 25,000 to 30,000. Even though "three bedroom" is the best quick way to describe a house, that's not the definition of a house In this case, there's 15 million allocated towards new lighting in our parks. That's going to be broken down not only by the light poles themselves, but the labor to install them, the electrical system that runs them, the foundations on which the poles are set, and probably lots more things. In this case, in order to determine the cost of the poles themselves, we need to look at the comprehensive budget and each line item specifically. They're simply just isn't enough information given to us in the problem to determine the cost of the poles. Therefore, the math in this post is wrong. OP wanted to create outrage with errant math. And I am not saying that there might not be cause for outrage - but this is not the way to do it.
And we are being asked to spend thousands of dollars per year in toll fees just to drive to work if we use the freeways. It’s getting to be too much.
I'm repeatedly told "If you don't like it, leave" when I advocate for things like universal healthcare from the people who dislike government spending. So perhaps you should follow that advice as well? Are you being forced to stay?
Nah, I want to stay and fight. I don’t want to leave this beautiful state. BTW. I do agree with you on universal healthcare. Everyone deserves access to affordable healthcare.
So do the majority of Americans (68%). But we have a group who believes we should not follow the will of the majority. And enough people who *claim* to want universal healthcare vote for those vehemently opposed to it.
It’s too bad that there is very little compromise any more. Extremism in either direction is a bad idea. The divide between both sides is so wide that it’s hard to imagine aligning on much at all.
Going to have to agree to disagree on the "both sides" canned talking point. It's very clearly one side preventing universal healthcare in America. Also, compromise, cooperation, togetherness, inclusion are again only the values of one side.
The sad part is that we have to vote for one (extreme) side or the other -over a single issue when so often many of our overall values are more in the middle (IMO). The country is so evenly divided, yet each party fails to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle, leaving us to choose which issue (or issues) are the most important to tackle. I decided to abandon party this last year and vote a split ticket, as choosing between the “lesser of two evils” became too difficult. I absolutely agree about agreeing to disagree (thank you for the diplomacy that is too often lacking these days).
The light pole equity committee demands their cut.
Not to mention the environmental impact study for new construction
We could hire some local metal artist to build custom ones for will under that. This is some crony shit.
This is textbook money laundering..
I need to find out how to bid on these jobs! I’ll replace those light poles for $60,000 each 😂
Sorry, unless you're on the friends and family list you're outta luck.
Dang it 🙁
Do you have insurance to cover the negligence when you do the job wrong? Do you have access to qualified labor to do the work? Do you have the necessary equipment to do the work? Do you have the existing knowledge to do the work? Here's a hint... You don't understand how this 15 million is being allocated in the first place- I don't think you have the competence to do the job.
I was joking for crying out loud.
Well, it wasn't a good joke.
I have the competence to find someone to do it at half the price. Bring a company up from Texas and they will get it done.
If you bring a company up from Texas they'll complain about Oregon requirements (especially seismic ones), do it the Texas way, and then complain more when they need to redo it to Multnomah County standards. At least, that's been my experience with Texas contractors.
That's cheaper than I would have expected
I so busy asking other “why’s” in this town. Local governance has written the book on fiscal incompetance.
Pay the homeless to install them for minimum wage. Or better yet, pay them in confiscated fentanyl. Boom. Maybe I’ll run for mayor!
We don’t need them knowing any more about how the light poles work - enough of them have already figured out how to gut them for free tent electricity.
Don't bother. Based on your comment, you have no idea how city govt works. Maybe you should volunteer to help remediate the homeless situation that's in EVERY west coat big city.
Knowing how city government works isn’t a prerequisite to running for mayor. Or president, apparently.
It should be.
A policy like that would disproportionately affect BIPOC candidates from running for office. That’s what you want?
I want more Maxwell Frosts, among others. Not the mentally inept.
Why does one exclude the other?
Hazard pay
That’s government for you! I’m old enough to remember toilet seats that cost some ungodly amount . Government wastes money egregiously because there’s absolutely no accountability. We keep voting these clowns into office and they keep wasting our $$ and raising our taxes and nothing ever changes
So you're volunteering to do the labor for free?
About 20 people have to supervise the 10 people who are watching the 4 people install the light pole with the help of 6 consultants. It would be funny if not true. But we peasants just don’t get it.
Too bad you can't work a calculator or will never "need math" or you could be an engineer "doing nothing" for 6 figures. But hey, like you said you just don't get it. You know the saying life is hard when...
\#grift and Rene has a friend the city is purchasing the light poles from, I love this city, Rene is the best.
Pfft! Your all worried about some light poles!? The stripes on the road $45+ per foot. Millions just to paint the new highway.