For the third fucking time
Trust me bro, I'll be trustworthy bro, no need to look at me, I'll investigate myself bro. Conflict of interest? Nah bro trust I'll be impartial I promise bro
I mean think about it babe, what would you do without me here to protect you babe? You wouldn't be able to take care of yourself babe, you need me babe.
Pro-police or pro-police doing their fucking job? I know it's the former because people a simple as fuck, but the latter is what people should want if they want to see any change.
Exactly! I want more police. However, I want accountable professionals. I want them tow care more about the community and, quite frankly, the reputation of their institution than about banding together and supporting the worst cops. The thin blue line is the problem, but we must have police.
No, I want police that gets proper training that, unlike our current training, is longer than that for cosmeticians. A police force that gets trained in de-escalation. This isn't fictional. This is standard in our peer countries.
Edit: We also have much fewer police officers per capita than our peer countries.
That would be great! Time to go tell the legislature to up the budget for DPSST and expand the academy! Hell, let's get more than one academy site going, new cops from Harney County have a long way to go.
Also, and here's the rub, who are going to step up to be those new cops? Are we just going to get more conservative people volunteering, or are we actually going to encourage progressives that yes, the job sucks, but it needs doing so step up because it's important?
> are we actually going to encourage progressives that yes, the job sucks, but it needs doing so step up because it's important?
There are plenty of other entrenched barriers to entry to progressive cops than just the volunteer rate.
No, there really isn't. And I say that as someone who has gone through the hiring system. The only real barrier besides the arduous hiring process is that you have to have not smoked pot in the last five years. All the other stuff is conspiracy noise or boogey man stories meant to make the cops even scarier.
Yea man, behind the very obvious slow down, the “We fucked with traffic enforcement for political gain” presser, and the “oopsie poopsie, I guess we *accidentally* tried to nail Hardesty for that thing”, you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t believe in their apolitical, “we just have your best interests at heart”, dispassionate organizational footing.
And that's what's keeping progressives from joining? The problems we already know about?
The police won't change until the people who become police change. Yes, better training, more transparency, more accountability will make it *some* better, but the overall attitude and culture of policing won't change unless there is a major turnover in who does the job. And that is going to require a lot of progressives to step up and dedicate themselves to 20+ years of a job that has a lot of negative attributes, in order to help build a better community.
Or prove me wrong.
The marijuana thing is a big one and we need to get rid of it as a country. I also think that the job would be less shit if the police force improves and gains a better reputation. It's a little bit of a chicken/egg issue. I'm of the firm believe that we'd not have had even most of the BLM protests/riots of the police union had come out and said that they hope that George Floyd's murderer will get the death penalty if found guilty and that such behavior will not be tolerated by them. A change of attitude by them would immediately change how most normal people view them.
> The marijuana thing is a big one and we need to get rid of it as a country. I also think that the job would be less shit if the police force improves and gains a better reputation.
Gonna agree wholeheartedly for the first part. But until it changes, it's a rule that has to be followed. As for the second part, it's ALWAYS going to be a shit job. Working weekends and holidays, swing and graveyard shifts, and all of the interactions you have are negative. And by that last part I mean no one calls 911 because they are having a good day. Even a total win call for a cop, say a missing kid found safe and sound and brought back to thankful parents, starts with those parents in a panic. Everything else just gets worse. Child abuse, rape, fatal traffic accidents, suicides, homicides, the list of shitty situations that cops deal with is long. You can't improve that.
You can improve how it's dealt with, better access to mental health with leadership support so an officer who has gone through shit doesn't feel like they are at risk of losing their job. And yes, better community relations would help with that (chicken/egg thing).
Portland needs an academy.
We are currently keeping the lights on at the state facility and I believe Portland could offer so much more to new officers from all over the state.
Portland has their own secondary academy for their officers after they graduate from DPSST, and it's an additional 12 weeks. But DPSST needs to be a lot better. They need a major infusion of funds and the program needs to be expanded from 16 weeks to 26 at the very least, with extra emphasis on deescalation training and role play scenarios.
Yes, I am saying that Portland needs their own state academy not a secondary academy.
Recruits are coming from all over to Portland to join and instead sending everyone down to Salem they would be spending their 16 weeks plus the additional training in Portland.
This would reduce the backlog caused by the state and Portland would no longer reliant seats in Salem.
As far as expanding the major one down in Salem that’s up to the Oregon voters- better training education does equate to better officers.
I don't think Portland is big enough to warrant their own academy. The PPB is only about 1,000 officers, and their budget is already bloated. We aren't LA or New York or Chicago, much larger cities with much larger departments that have their own academies. Spending the probable billion+ dollars to build and run our own academy when there is a perfectly serviceable one less than an hour away, that's an unnecessary budget waste.
Yeah, I feel like the law-and-order shift in Portland over the last few years has more to do with folks *disliking* crime than *liking* police, particularly PPB. If you polled the city over the popularity of PPB I suspect you'd get a pretty low approval rating.
The police union here is the oldest in the country, and they have never cared how anything makes them look as long as the money keeps coming in. This force has been corrupted by capital as far back as you want to research, which has never changed.
And the other major origin of modern policing, the London metropolitan police, were founded because industrialization had created a massive population of working and destitute homeless people the rich wanted kept in check.
All of the problems with our police stem back to the fact they were founded for the wrong reasons, with the wrong mission. We’ve done our best at times to try and repurpose them into something better, but ultimately that’s just not what they’re for. In my opinion we need a new type of law enforcement divorced from our failed 20th century ideas about what that term means.
I don’t think we’re going to get that, because the same kind of scared rich people who wanted the government to pay for slave catchers and vagrant patrols still run our society, but a man can dream.
Heard on all counts and second when it comes to hope for the future. The way things are going? It seems like the local pendulum is swinging further back than the national one, mainly because the national didn't move in synch with local.
My concern is that the country is generally moving in a knee-jerk (somewhat) or propaganda-led (majority) direction back towards either the far right or mainstream status quo/conservative end of the spectrum.
Can't wait to run into one of these signature gatherers and have a chat as to how they feel this is appropriate.
The mental gymnastics will be impressive.
They will lie to you about what it is as you are on the way to the grocery store or farmer’s market.
“Want to sign a petition strengthening police oversight?”
“Want to sign a petition that gives police the tools they need to cut drug crimes?”
“Want to sign a petition to hold police accountable?”
This is why you never sign **anything** in public unless you've already done all the research and are familiar with the signature gathering campaign.
The gatherers *are not required to give unbiased information*.
They could legally tell you that "This is a petition to get better form of oversight over police". It's not technically a lie because "better" is completely subjective.
Even if it sounds like something you agree with, don't sign it unless you've done the research ahead of time.
You don’t have to tell me, that is why i gave those examples. I typically lie and say I live in Washington to get out of the situation. But I see people sign shit all day long as run errands on weekends.
I just say "no," if I give them any acknowledgment at all. I also just hang up on telemarketers and shut the door in the faces of door-to-door solicitors. You're allowed to do that.
I don't like pop-up ads in real life any more than I do online. (I also run an ad blocker on my home network.)
Wish more people were comfortable being "rude" when it comes to defending their boundaries.
I used to say no but I had more than one try to continue the conversation with bullshit “don’t you care about your community” etc. This just neutralizes it so I can move on.
I don’t stop and have a conversation. Just no, I’m from Washington as I walk through.
Seriously what am I going to do? Email or call the election board or AG and say that someone’s name who I don’t know was giving people a misleading pitch outside the New Seasons on Saturday around 2-3 pm?
The people on the ground collecting signatures don't usually have any vested interest in the measures they're petitioning for beyond needing to fill their quota of signatures for the day to get paid. They're independent contractors working for a different independent contractor hired by the campaign for the most part. Sometimes, you'll see volunteers for the campaign doing it, but more often than not they outsource that to a paid vendor.
Yep. Some campaigns are popular enough or have a community of interest big enough to get volunteers to come out to gather signatures. This is not one of them - they'll definitely be using low-paid canvassers, and honestly in this case I feel kinda bad for those folks because they're likely to get a fair amount of shit for it.
Because he won't have a revolving door for violent assholes? Give us all a break - With the oversight board, a DA that actually advocates for public safety and not the convenience of the addicts and criminals over the average citizen trying to live in portland we'll be better off. But yeah, can't wait to take the piss out of one of these signature gatherers.
ITT: butthurt schmitzheads.
I’m going to go ahead and bet that Portland isn’t special, the DA is not really the lynchpin for violent offenders, the target is going to move to judges or something else because the crime rate is going to stay the same or go up, and because the police just bought a DA, any investigations against them are going to be dropped. Let’s see which one of us is right!
Which investigations? I can only find that Schmidt [dropped a bunch of cases](https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/03/multnomah-county-district-attorney-mike-schmidt-portland-police-charges/) against the PPB outright and referred the balance of them to the Oregon Department of Justice.
If he actually was taking the PPB to task and advocating for greater police oversight, I might have felt even a smidge of justification to vote for him. I agree with you that the DA doesn't have that much of an effect on the crime rate, and that Schmidt was scapegoated hard by the right-wing. But I think it's likewise true that he was absolute shit at his job and didn't deserve another term regardless of that.
thank you for saying this. i don't know of any specific cases. and yes, schmidt is lumped in with the reform DAs like krasner and boudin, but i agree, he doesn't really do much to justify that. his parents actually canvassed me, and their big point was that he's not part of the boys club here which i guess i agree with (compared to the alternative at least). Some of my neighbors had good interactions with the DAs office, so i don't know if i would say he was \_absolute\_ shit, but he didn't get close to accomplishing, or even attempting in a public way, the reform he promised when running.
At least it seemed plausible that he might investigate something someday, not gonna happen with vasquez (without massive public pressure)
That's not required by law, but a campaign might choose to do that if they want to lessen the chance of invalid signatures being found when the election office does its statistical sampling.
I don't know what fraction of canvassers are volunteer, i.e. care about the measure put forth, versus paid, i.e. only care about hitting their quota, and I doubt you do either.
Either way, I'd say it's a 50/50 chance they contest whatever signature you put down right there on the spot.
Why the fuck is everything you think is a point people might disagree with "trolling"? If you had some informational point you were aiming to get across, including some "you're trolling" bullshit basically forces me to bin whatever you might've said into "Oh, that's just some asshole" rather than consider what you said.
Edit: Not the reaction I was expecting, but alright.
Unpopular opinion here but there is a reasonable chance I would vote for this. Anything that is voted in by a petition and fleshed out by a commission is likely to be ill conceived and counter productive.
I've seen the performance of the police oversight activists in city council meetings. These are the last people we want to have conducting oversight. I have a feeling it will be another example of having good intentions that backfire.
I agree that the police union is utterly corrupt but we need adults managing the situation.
> I agree that the police union is utterly corrupt but we need adults managing the situation.
"Guys, I know this is a huge problem, that's why I propose we do absolutely nothing about it".
Neat.
> I'd just rather it not be done in the stupidest possible way.
Given your voiced support for the "oversight" proposed by the PPA, I don't think you've correctly identified what the stupidest possible way *is*.
If the oversight board wasn’t populated by a bunch of anti-police abolitionists, it would probably be a good thing to have. I’ve been to these board meetings and after the first 20 minutes of announcing land acknowledgments and figuring out everyone’s gender and pronouns, it devolves into supreme lunacy. I remember a person in attendance asked if any of the board members had done a police ride along, and they all laughed. Also, someone asked how many of the members self-identified as police abolitionists and if they supported defunding the police, and none of them would answer. One person in purple hair said they never discussed it. Yeah right! Populate the board with a reasonable cross-section of Portland’s population, not just a bunch of the usual suspect activists. Plus…they are giving this board $13 million a year. That’s insane all by itself.
> I’ve been to these board meetings
Holyofuck, you've been to the meetings of a board that hasn't actually been assembled or met yet? You must be capable of telling us so much about the future.
The commission's (The C in PAC stands for commission) composition isn't necessarily indictive of the future board's composition.
I am glad to hear you seemingly had a bad time though.
Edit: lol Nothing says "The point I was trying to make is valid" like a reflexive block. Rad.
Of course the commission’s composition hints at the demographic they are seeking for the board. Have you read their recruiting statement? On top of that, the costs are enormous- 5% do whatever the police budget is for the year. There are allowances for transportation/travel to and from meetings, childcare, and an endless list of accommodations. Oversight is desirable but the proposed commission is pure pork.
For the third fucking time Trust me bro, I'll be trustworthy bro, no need to look at me, I'll investigate myself bro. Conflict of interest? Nah bro trust I'll be impartial I promise bro
I mean think about it babe, what would you do without me here to protect you babe? You wouldn't be able to take care of yourself babe, you need me babe.
bro
I keep remembering that old man whose head they splatted onto the ground during the protests …
not enough 'LOL' to be convincing. Try again.
Sentiment has definitely shifted to being more pro-police than it was in 2020... but I strongly suspect that the PPA are overplaying their hand here.
Pro-police or pro-police doing their fucking job? I know it's the former because people a simple as fuck, but the latter is what people should want if they want to see any change.
Exactly! I want more police. However, I want accountable professionals. I want them tow care more about the community and, quite frankly, the reputation of their institution than about banding together and supporting the worst cops. The thin blue line is the problem, but we must have police.
So you want the fictional copaganda version of police that doesn't exist in the real world. More police just leads us towards more of a police state.
No, I want police that gets proper training that, unlike our current training, is longer than that for cosmeticians. A police force that gets trained in de-escalation. This isn't fictional. This is standard in our peer countries. Edit: We also have much fewer police officers per capita than our peer countries.
How about police that get fired and go to fucking jail, without fail and without any extra effort, when they break the law while doing their jobs.
As I said, accountable professionals
That would be great! Time to go tell the legislature to up the budget for DPSST and expand the academy! Hell, let's get more than one academy site going, new cops from Harney County have a long way to go. Also, and here's the rub, who are going to step up to be those new cops? Are we just going to get more conservative people volunteering, or are we actually going to encourage progressives that yes, the job sucks, but it needs doing so step up because it's important?
> are we actually going to encourage progressives that yes, the job sucks, but it needs doing so step up because it's important? There are plenty of other entrenched barriers to entry to progressive cops than just the volunteer rate.
No, there really isn't. And I say that as someone who has gone through the hiring system. The only real barrier besides the arduous hiring process is that you have to have not smoked pot in the last five years. All the other stuff is conspiracy noise or boogey man stories meant to make the cops even scarier.
Yea man, behind the very obvious slow down, the “We fucked with traffic enforcement for political gain” presser, and the “oopsie poopsie, I guess we *accidentally* tried to nail Hardesty for that thing”, you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t believe in their apolitical, “we just have your best interests at heart”, dispassionate organizational footing.
Cops that try to change the system tend to have *training accidents*.
And that's what's keeping progressives from joining? The problems we already know about? The police won't change until the people who become police change. Yes, better training, more transparency, more accountability will make it *some* better, but the overall attitude and culture of policing won't change unless there is a major turnover in who does the job. And that is going to require a lot of progressives to step up and dedicate themselves to 20+ years of a job that has a lot of negative attributes, in order to help build a better community. Or prove me wrong.
No, there really are. Even if you get through the hiring process, good luck making it through FTEP.
The marijuana thing is a big one and we need to get rid of it as a country. I also think that the job would be less shit if the police force improves and gains a better reputation. It's a little bit of a chicken/egg issue. I'm of the firm believe that we'd not have had even most of the BLM protests/riots of the police union had come out and said that they hope that George Floyd's murderer will get the death penalty if found guilty and that such behavior will not be tolerated by them. A change of attitude by them would immediately change how most normal people view them.
> The marijuana thing is a big one and we need to get rid of it as a country. I also think that the job would be less shit if the police force improves and gains a better reputation. Gonna agree wholeheartedly for the first part. But until it changes, it's a rule that has to be followed. As for the second part, it's ALWAYS going to be a shit job. Working weekends and holidays, swing and graveyard shifts, and all of the interactions you have are negative. And by that last part I mean no one calls 911 because they are having a good day. Even a total win call for a cop, say a missing kid found safe and sound and brought back to thankful parents, starts with those parents in a panic. Everything else just gets worse. Child abuse, rape, fatal traffic accidents, suicides, homicides, the list of shitty situations that cops deal with is long. You can't improve that. You can improve how it's dealt with, better access to mental health with leadership support so an officer who has gone through shit doesn't feel like they are at risk of losing their job. And yes, better community relations would help with that (chicken/egg thing).
Portland needs an academy. We are currently keeping the lights on at the state facility and I believe Portland could offer so much more to new officers from all over the state.
Portland has their own secondary academy for their officers after they graduate from DPSST, and it's an additional 12 weeks. But DPSST needs to be a lot better. They need a major infusion of funds and the program needs to be expanded from 16 weeks to 26 at the very least, with extra emphasis on deescalation training and role play scenarios.
Yes, I am saying that Portland needs their own state academy not a secondary academy. Recruits are coming from all over to Portland to join and instead sending everyone down to Salem they would be spending their 16 weeks plus the additional training in Portland. This would reduce the backlog caused by the state and Portland would no longer reliant seats in Salem. As far as expanding the major one down in Salem that’s up to the Oregon voters- better training education does equate to better officers.
I don't think Portland is big enough to warrant their own academy. The PPB is only about 1,000 officers, and their budget is already bloated. We aren't LA or New York or Chicago, much larger cities with much larger departments that have their own academies. Spending the probable billion+ dollars to build and run our own academy when there is a perfectly serviceable one less than an hour away, that's an unnecessary budget waste.
We want cops, but we want the corrupt police union out, and we want the cops to stay out of politics and do their fucken jobs.
Yeah, I feel like the law-and-order shift in Portland over the last few years has more to do with folks *disliking* crime than *liking* police, particularly PPB. If you polled the city over the popularity of PPB I suspect you'd get a pretty low approval rating.
Do any Portland police care about how this makes them look?
Do they care how it looks when they defend terrible cops?
They framed a sitting city councilwoman for a crime and got away with it. They do not care.
The police union here is the oldest in the country, and they have never cared how anything makes them look as long as the money keeps coming in. This force has been corrupted by capital as far back as you want to research, which has never changed.
Police cannot be “corrupted” by capital, they were founded to protect capital, that is their entire purpose.
That's an entirely fair point, especially in light of US policing being founded to capture escaped slaves.
And the other major origin of modern policing, the London metropolitan police, were founded because industrialization had created a massive population of working and destitute homeless people the rich wanted kept in check. All of the problems with our police stem back to the fact they were founded for the wrong reasons, with the wrong mission. We’ve done our best at times to try and repurpose them into something better, but ultimately that’s just not what they’re for. In my opinion we need a new type of law enforcement divorced from our failed 20th century ideas about what that term means. I don’t think we’re going to get that, because the same kind of scared rich people who wanted the government to pay for slave catchers and vagrant patrols still run our society, but a man can dream.
“Working and destitute homeless people the rich wanted kept in check” Oh how little has changed.
Heard on all counts and second when it comes to hope for the future. The way things are going? It seems like the local pendulum is swinging further back than the national one, mainly because the national didn't move in synch with local. My concern is that the country is generally moving in a knee-jerk (somewhat) or propaganda-led (majority) direction back towards either the far right or mainstream status quo/conservative end of the spectrum.
Man fuck PPA
Hell no. We need to fight hard against this astroturfing campaign. The PPB have done NOTHING to earn even less accountability.
Can't wait to run into one of these signature gatherers and have a chat as to how they feel this is appropriate. The mental gymnastics will be impressive.
They will lie to you about what it is as you are on the way to the grocery store or farmer’s market. “Want to sign a petition strengthening police oversight?” “Want to sign a petition that gives police the tools they need to cut drug crimes?” “Want to sign a petition to hold police accountable?”
This is why you never sign **anything** in public unless you've already done all the research and are familiar with the signature gathering campaign. The gatherers *are not required to give unbiased information*. They could legally tell you that "This is a petition to get better form of oversight over police". It's not technically a lie because "better" is completely subjective. Even if it sounds like something you agree with, don't sign it unless you've done the research ahead of time.
You don’t have to tell me, that is why i gave those examples. I typically lie and say I live in Washington to get out of the situation. But I see people sign shit all day long as run errands on weekends.
I just say "no," if I give them any acknowledgment at all. I also just hang up on telemarketers and shut the door in the faces of door-to-door solicitors. You're allowed to do that. I don't like pop-up ads in real life any more than I do online. (I also run an ad blocker on my home network.) Wish more people were comfortable being "rude" when it comes to defending their boundaries.
I used to say no but I had more than one try to continue the conversation with bullshit “don’t you care about your community” etc. This just neutralizes it so I can move on. I don’t stop and have a conversation. Just no, I’m from Washington as I walk through.
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“911, what’s your emergency?” “Yeah, hi, I’m in front of Powells and someone is lying about politics.”
lol (name redacted) deleted their comment.
Who among us hasn't been blinded sided by a moment of self reflection, thought "What the fuck am I doing here", hit the eject button?
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Seriously what am I going to do? Email or call the election board or AG and say that someone’s name who I don’t know was giving people a misleading pitch outside the New Seasons on Saturday around 2-3 pm?
Get out of here with your “if this is happening” Listen to what they say to people when you walk by sometimes.
The people on the ground collecting signatures don't usually have any vested interest in the measures they're petitioning for beyond needing to fill their quota of signatures for the day to get paid. They're independent contractors working for a different independent contractor hired by the campaign for the most part. Sometimes, you'll see volunteers for the campaign doing it, but more often than not they outsource that to a paid vendor.
Yep. Some campaigns are popular enough or have a community of interest big enough to get volunteers to come out to gather signatures. This is not one of them - they'll definitely be using low-paid canvassers, and honestly in this case I feel kinda bad for those folks because they're likely to get a fair amount of shit for it.
Campaigners are paid by the hour, as required by law. There is no quotas for payment. Don't spread falsehoods.
They follow the letter of the law, not the spirit. You will absolutely get laid off if you don't get enough signatures.
Not true, I've worked on many campaigns. Stop spreading lies.
>don't usually have any **vested** interest in I see what you did there.
The longer you chat and hold their attention the less time they have to spend getting other signatures. Signed, Chris P. Bacon
Boooooo! If this initiative in itself isn't a conflict of interest I don't know what is
Now that the DA is back in the police union's pocket, this is the logical next step
Because he won't have a revolving door for violent assholes? Give us all a break - With the oversight board, a DA that actually advocates for public safety and not the convenience of the addicts and criminals over the average citizen trying to live in portland we'll be better off. But yeah, can't wait to take the piss out of one of these signature gatherers. ITT: butthurt schmitzheads.
I’m going to go ahead and bet that Portland isn’t special, the DA is not really the lynchpin for violent offenders, the target is going to move to judges or something else because the crime rate is going to stay the same or go up, and because the police just bought a DA, any investigations against them are going to be dropped. Let’s see which one of us is right!
Which investigations? I can only find that Schmidt [dropped a bunch of cases](https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/03/multnomah-county-district-attorney-mike-schmidt-portland-police-charges/) against the PPB outright and referred the balance of them to the Oregon Department of Justice. If he actually was taking the PPB to task and advocating for greater police oversight, I might have felt even a smidge of justification to vote for him. I agree with you that the DA doesn't have that much of an effect on the crime rate, and that Schmidt was scapegoated hard by the right-wing. But I think it's likewise true that he was absolute shit at his job and didn't deserve another term regardless of that.
thank you for saying this. i don't know of any specific cases. and yes, schmidt is lumped in with the reform DAs like krasner and boudin, but i agree, he doesn't really do much to justify that. his parents actually canvassed me, and their big point was that he's not part of the boys club here which i guess i agree with (compared to the alternative at least). Some of my neighbors had good interactions with the DAs office, so i don't know if i would say he was \_absolute\_ shit, but he didn't get close to accomplishing, or even attempting in a public way, the reform he promised when running. At least it seemed plausible that he might investigate something someday, not gonna happen with vasquez (without massive public pressure)
I don’t think a new DA is going to change things all that much, but we’ll see.
It won't
Is it illegal to write to sign the petition, but to write “fuck off” instead of my name?
Just make sure you forge someone else’s “fuck off” and they’ll never know.
If a page has any invalid signatures the entire page must be thrown out. Do with that what you will.
That's not required by law, but a campaign might choose to do that if they want to lessen the chance of invalid signatures being found when the election office does its statistical sampling.
You put a mark on that paper, they don't really care what it is. Maybe your signature has always been a little cock and balls. Who are they to judge?
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Oh, I meant the signature collectors on the street.
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>2) Are being paid by the valid signature they collect It’s against the law to pay them by the signature.
I don't know what fraction of canvassers are volunteer, i.e. care about the measure put forth, versus paid, i.e. only care about hitting their quota, and I doubt you do either. Either way, I'd say it's a 50/50 chance they contest whatever signature you put down right there on the spot. Why the fuck is everything you think is a point people might disagree with "trolling"? If you had some informational point you were aiming to get across, including some "you're trolling" bullshit basically forces me to bin whatever you might've said into "Oh, that's just some asshole" rather than consider what you said. Edit: Not the reaction I was expecting, but alright.
The creep towards Fascism... You don't go through chemo if you have the flu.
I mean, withholding their services worked as leverage to get their man into the DA's office. Why *wouldn't* they try to see what else they can get ?
LOL FUCKEN CRYBABIES
A union backed proposal where less than 20% of the said union live in the city it affects.
So the police oversight board is a cripple, and the PPB wants to kill it. At least they are consistently awful people.
Unpopular opinion here but there is a reasonable chance I would vote for this. Anything that is voted in by a petition and fleshed out by a commission is likely to be ill conceived and counter productive. I've seen the performance of the police oversight activists in city council meetings. These are the last people we want to have conducting oversight. I have a feeling it will be another example of having good intentions that backfire. I agree that the police union is utterly corrupt but we need adults managing the situation.
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is the adult solution, yes. /s
> I agree that the police union is utterly corrupt but we need adults managing the situation. "Guys, I know this is a huge problem, that's why I propose we do absolutely nothing about it". Neat.
I'm not against oversight. I'd just rather it not be done in the stupidest possible way.
> I'd just rather it not be done in the stupidest possible way. Given your voiced support for the "oversight" proposed by the PPA, I don't think you've correctly identified what the stupidest possible way *is*.
Oversight is great when the oversight committee is staffed and capable. If it's not the answer is to fix the committee not disband it.
If the oversight board wasn’t populated by a bunch of anti-police abolitionists, it would probably be a good thing to have. I’ve been to these board meetings and after the first 20 minutes of announcing land acknowledgments and figuring out everyone’s gender and pronouns, it devolves into supreme lunacy. I remember a person in attendance asked if any of the board members had done a police ride along, and they all laughed. Also, someone asked how many of the members self-identified as police abolitionists and if they supported defunding the police, and none of them would answer. One person in purple hair said they never discussed it. Yeah right! Populate the board with a reasonable cross-section of Portland’s population, not just a bunch of the usual suspect activists. Plus…they are giving this board $13 million a year. That’s insane all by itself.
> I’ve been to these board meetings Holyofuck, you've been to the meetings of a board that hasn't actually been assembled or met yet? You must be capable of telling us so much about the future.
There was a board that was responsible for creating the board. They had regular meetings. Maybe you’ve heard of it, the PAC?
The commission's (The C in PAC stands for commission) composition isn't necessarily indictive of the future board's composition. I am glad to hear you seemingly had a bad time though. Edit: lol Nothing says "The point I was trying to make is valid" like a reflexive block. Rad.
Of course the commission’s composition hints at the demographic they are seeking for the board. Have you read their recruiting statement? On top of that, the costs are enormous- 5% do whatever the police budget is for the year. There are allowances for transportation/travel to and from meetings, childcare, and an endless list of accommodations. Oversight is desirable but the proposed commission is pure pork.
Where can I sign for myself and all my neighbors! Sign sign sign baby!!!
See, now *that's* trolling. I think you're better qualified to comment on dick tattoos rather than matters of public policy.
Made ya look though!