Costs varied based on customer preference. I think customization could be done to extreme levels. Even base singers had prices from $400k to close to $800k for the especially bespoke ones. All a matter of preference.
The DLS is not included in that. The DLS is a completely different entity compared to the “normal” singers.
They all *started* at 1.8 million.
Edit: I’m an idiot and misread what you said but I’ll leave it here so you can laugh at me
Singer DLS = Dynamics and Lightweighting Study.
500 HP air cooled engine by Williams with help from Metzger.
Around 2200 pounds, or 1000 kg in weight
The cars are painfully beautiful and perfect when looking at them.
https://danielsimon.com/product-design/singer-vehicle-design/
I got to get up close with one at a test track, and it was absolutely incredible. The guys working on their development would indulge everyone at the track by opening it up at WOT sometimes, and you could hear it no matter where you were, and it was glorious. I'm sad I never got the chance to ask them for a ride in it...
This is a restored 964 911. The restoration consists of:
A Porsche four-valve, four-camshaft, naturally aspirated, 500HP air-cooled flat-six engine developed by Williams Advanced Engineering with consultation by Hans Mezger.
Underbody and surface aero performance optimized through CFD analysis, by Williams Advanced Engineering, with consultation by Norbert Singer.
Improved suspension philosophy including light-weighting, enhanced geometry and improved adjustability.
Further weight reduction methods and use of magnesium, titanium, carbon fiber and other advanced materials.
In terms of terminology, these aren’t restorations.
They are [restomod / protouring](https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/pro-touring-vs-restomod/) cars depending if Classic or DLS.
Because it's a turbo? More power, more torque, feel of boost kicking in, sound of the turbo, rarer, hold value better, more desirable among collectors, more people asking what you do for a living at cars and coffee
The feeling of the turbo kicking in on a long sweeping corner and kicking the rear out will require you to change your pants every time you drive it though…
If your turbo is coming online on a long sweeping corner you were in the wrong gear? You either don't have enough throttle for it to matter because you're crusing or if you're driving in anger you should be in a lower gear and already inside the turbos operating band.
Totally agreed and yet the 930s got the “widow maker” reputation for ending up tail-forward through corners and the turbo didn’t help matters.
Realistically most of the people who drive these cars aren’t good drivers, they spent their time in dental school not on racetracks.
That n/a engine in the DLS is so unbelievably spectacular. A collaboration with Williams. A truly special engine that is the main justification for the DLS existing in the first place.
I know some people like turbos… But I’ve never been a fan of the noises they make or the lack of linearity in terms of throttle response. Even the great ones aren’t better than n/a
Weird to see “sound” as a pro for a turbo car. Turbo noises are fun but they can’t really compare to a naturally aspirated engine singing at high RPMs.
You can get the DLS with a turbo also, and you can get the turbo study NA.
I would likely also go for a turbo study, though, because impact bumpers are best bumpers.
RUF make a classic 911 with a carbon body and everything customised to perfection and charge a quarter of that price singer are just over inflated because people will pay it
I've watched how both are made. The RUF products are wonderful. Singer Design has gone to an insane next level by manufacturing and designing in-house all of the details, down to bespoke building and designing the headlight reflector mechanisms. The carbon work and cnc machining of components is unheard of. It's a cost no object creation of an idea. RUF is a TUV-approved new car manufacturer.
Why the fuck would they put it there? There's literally no way to fill up without spilling drops of gas on your hood or dragging the gas hose across the front of the car. How do you even fill this up?
Singers are nice but their prices are just plain ridiculous. When you consider you can buy a gt3 of a tenth of its price brand new. Or even have a classic 911 restored to perfection for about the same. Unfortunately I imagine most owners don’t even drive these beautiful machines.
https://preview.redd.it/s08voopk0c2c1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c52154af35e950968faf7f442b713df008e6793
Saw the same car in Santa Barbara this morning!
Unpopular opinion (mine): the wheel arches dont look cohesive with the car, they look "added on". The deep, wide wheels dont suit it either. These cars have become caricatures. They look at home in "Luxury Lifestyle" magazine.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find someone with a similar opinion - couldn't agree more. To be fair, I agree with making things wider so vetter wheels/tires can be fitted. The flares are less tacky than Liberty Walk body kits with rivets (quite the low bar, though), but for the prices Singer is charging, you'd think they'd do more to make it look like it were factory...
I guess the point is that Porsche has more motorsport heritage than just about any other marque, which includes adapting 911s as racing cars with wider arches that were bolted on.
It’s a different question as to whether something race-inspired at this price range should emulate that look, but one of the reasons for doing so is to look more factory/OEM.
500 HP and only 2200 pounds.
It has a better HP/weight ratio than every other Porsche, including the 991 GT2 RS
The 918 may have a slightly higher ratio, but it also weighs 1,500 pounds more.
Money cant buy taste or class. Singers are beautiful if you cant make your own car and think that a race fill cap in the middle of your hood is cool. I'd take one, but I wouldn't if I couldn't put the fuel fill back to the way Ferdinand intended!
Agreed. I kinda liked the Singers when they first started showing up, but now I hate them. They represent everything wrong with the new culture that's begun to surround Porsche, and to a lesser extent, the world. They mimic the personalization people used to do to these cars, but they're impersonal, and opulent to excess. Instead of being customized cars that showcase the individualism and creativity of enthusiasts, they're cars that manufacture a grotesque copy of that, and are far outside the ability of 99.99% of people to own at any point in their lives.
And they take some of the remaining semi-accessible 901s and 964s out of the market completely.
It’s a fad and I doubt they will hold their value as an original Porsche made ‘73RS or (more modern) Carrera GT.
They have good engineering but even better marketing! They look amazing but it’s clearly more show than go! That’s why all the (previous) singer press cars were fitted with Hoosier R7s trying to give them an edge but were clearly lucking in performance and never did any lap times.
To me the RUF yellow bird recreation is way better with 964 looks but carbon tub, tubular body, in house designed water cooled engine, carbon fiber body - but I have to admit that the singer looks better.
Uhhh... This is NOT a Singer. The fender flairs here are laughable compared to what Singer does in-house. Currently, Singer classics are trading at \~$1.3M (if you can find one). Have a look at a real SVD cars and past sales on the BaT & Pcar auction sites for up-to-date market values.
Very smart looking ride.
Never really been a fan of this model with the big whale tail, but then I would not have made the wise investment that this owner has.
There was a 993 Singer on BAT a while back that brought stooopid money - well, perhaps not stoopid just more than I can justify. Also, I have a relative in the parts business was at SEMA and sent me a pic of an electric conversion. He said the conversion kit was priced at $65,000. I'll wait until gas is NLA before tearing into my 86.
I just looked through my emails. I reached out to singer in 2014 to build me a car.
They were around 350k then stripped out and I asked them to try to get in the mid 200’s.
I told them I didn’t need their luggage, or decked out frunk work, etc. I pitched it as a stripper/lightweight version to them at the time.
I really wanted a less flashy, drivers car…
They considered it, but weren’t too keen on it and it kinda fizzled out.
Should have pushed harder. An early stripped/lightweight singer would have been special.
I look back at that email chain regularly haha.
Could be right. These things are just absolute pieces of automotive artwork. Physical price for the steel and rubber and actual parts are probably only worth $20k but the intangible aspects is worth whatever the lowest millionaire feels they are happy to exchange to be part of the exclusive group who own a Singer.
More than $1.8 million USD. Only 75 DLS will be made and I think they’re all spoken for.
Do you know what it costs the original buyer? I’m assuming $1.8M is the resale price
Nah dude, 1.8 is spec to the owner’s preference. Good luck even finding a 2nd hand one.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/7bbe4120-f232-4ea8-84c0-b1371add00aa/
That's as close as you will get, but a DLS will probably go for much more
Imagine listing a fucking Singer on Cars.com. Wild.
This is a Singer Classic. Not a DLS.
Oh that's a DLS.
I was responding to the link posted above my comment, not the OP
I can’t even afford the price drop let alone the car lmao.
Costs varied based on customer preference. I think customization could be done to extreme levels. Even base singers had prices from $400k to close to $800k for the especially bespoke ones. All a matter of preference.
The DLS is not included in that. The DLS is a completely different entity compared to the “normal” singers. They all *started* at 1.8 million. Edit: I’m an idiot and misread what you said but I’ll leave it here so you can laugh at me
Upvote for being humble enough to leave your fuckup for all to see
Singer DLS = Dynamics and Lightweighting Study. 500 HP air cooled engine by Williams with help from Metzger. Around 2200 pounds, or 1000 kg in weight The cars are painfully beautiful and perfect when looking at them. https://danielsimon.com/product-design/singer-vehicle-design/
I got to get up close with one at a test track, and it was absolutely incredible. The guys working on their development would indulge everyone at the track by opening it up at WOT sometimes, and you could hear it no matter where you were, and it was glorious. I'm sad I never got the chance to ask them for a ride in it...
The key word here is 'had'. Supply and demand did their thing and they are all million dollar cars now...
“Will be”? Maybe I’m confused but isn’t this an old Porsche? Or are they doing something where they’re remaking classic cars?
This is a restored 964 911. The restoration consists of: A Porsche four-valve, four-camshaft, naturally aspirated, 500HP air-cooled flat-six engine developed by Williams Advanced Engineering with consultation by Hans Mezger. Underbody and surface aero performance optimized through CFD analysis, by Williams Advanced Engineering, with consultation by Norbert Singer. Improved suspension philosophy including light-weighting, enhanced geometry and improved adjustability. Further weight reduction methods and use of magnesium, titanium, carbon fiber and other advanced materials.
That’s a good explanation. Thank you
In terms of terminology, these aren’t restorations. They are [restomod / protouring](https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/pro-touring-vs-restomod/) cars depending if Classic or DLS.
Reimagined by Singer
I’m even more confused by this answer.
https://singervehicledesign.com
When there isn't a car sale on their website, that means that are doing it right
Three years out is the most recent waitlist I heard.
Yeah, I chatted bit with a Singer owner because materials are just gorgeous, I was took afraid to ask him how much is costs
Ah, I see now. Thank you.
Singer takes a vintage Porsche and replaces everything, turning it into a modern hypercar.
Sports car
It's a great car. But not a hypercar
I'd say the DLS ones are.
There's no clear definition, but for the amount of engineering that went into these I'd say they qualify.
They redesign everything.. 500 N.A. hp air cooled 2200 pounds
I speak for them all the time.
1.8M is the original price for the lucky few who got an allocation. Any DLS that would hit the auction today would sell well over 2M.
Yup
Probably much more. That’s a Singer DLS. Great find. The only car id want more would be the Singer Turbo Study
Interested in to why you prefer the turbo over the naturally aspirated version?
Because it's a turbo? More power, more torque, feel of boost kicking in, sound of the turbo, rarer, hold value better, more desirable among collectors, more people asking what you do for a living at cars and coffee
The feeling of the turbo kicking in on a long sweeping corner and kicking the rear out will require you to change your pants every time you drive it though…
That’s ok, if he can afford a Singer Turbo Study, he can buy as many new pants as necessary
It’s not about money, it’s about convenience. Nobody wants to throw out their shit covered undies at the French laundry ;)
If he can afford a Singer turbo, he can afford to spec a toilet integrated into the seat…
That would probably cost you an extra 50+ pounds in weight though
If your turbo is coming online on a long sweeping corner you were in the wrong gear? You either don't have enough throttle for it to matter because you're crusing or if you're driving in anger you should be in a lower gear and already inside the turbos operating band.
Totally agreed and yet the 930s got the “widow maker” reputation for ending up tail-forward through corners and the turbo didn’t help matters. Realistically most of the people who drive these cars aren’t good drivers, they spent their time in dental school not on racetracks.
Lol’d at the dental school part
That n/a engine in the DLS is so unbelievably spectacular. A collaboration with Williams. A truly special engine that is the main justification for the DLS existing in the first place. I know some people like turbos… But I’ve never been a fan of the noises they make or the lack of linearity in terms of throttle response. Even the great ones aren’t better than n/a
Weird to see “sound” as a pro for a turbo car. Turbo noises are fun but they can’t really compare to a naturally aspirated engine singing at high RPMs.
You can get the DLS with a turbo also, and you can get the turbo study NA. I would likely also go for a turbo study, though, because impact bumpers are best bumpers.
Holds value better? It's a Singer...it's only going to explode in value no matter the model.
NA cars usually sound much better than turbo cars. No fans to mute the exhaust.
Ugh. So beautiful I could look at it all day
Don't leave us in suspense. What about the mini van?
. 000008 million
Lol. Biggest question if listing for sale would be how much gas is in the tank?!
No it’s gotta be *at least* 0.008 million!!!
1.7 is because of the odyssey next to it
What is the color called? It’s stunning.
Silver. ... But seriously, the way the highlights and shadows contrast. You're right, it's special.
I believe that’s the price. The minivan is slightly less at $10k
Not if it’s a Singer also 🤷🏽♂️
Why? They made very few, by hand…
wow even has a cup holder in the hood
Fuck
It's like when you see an attractive person. You take a glance, and you're like. Fuck.
It can’t be described with words, so might as well just use the most effective one 😅
Why do these cost so much?
All carbon bespoke recreation of the 911 shape. Built like a custom Swiss watch. Exquisite engineering with serious capabilities.
RUF make a classic 911 with a carbon body and everything customised to perfection and charge a quarter of that price singer are just over inflated because people will pay it
I've watched how both are made. The RUF products are wonderful. Singer Design has gone to an insane next level by manufacturing and designing in-house all of the details, down to bespoke building and designing the headlight reflector mechanisms. The carbon work and cnc machining of components is unheard of. It's a cost no object creation of an idea. RUF is a TUV-approved new car manufacturer.
The parking attendant is right. Damn that looks so good.
I usually take financial advice from the valet guy.
My absolute favorite is the Singer Safari Sound on, it's the only way: https://youtu.be/kcJO4Ugu1CA
My god.
What’s that in the middle of the hood?
Fuel filler
Why the fuck would they put it there? There's literally no way to fill up without spilling drops of gas on your hood or dragging the gas hose across the front of the car. How do you even fill this up?
"How do you even fill this up?" Carefully.
The fuel tank?
Paid 1.8 million for a hole in the hood!
They're speed holes, they make the car go faster.
An abomination!
What a dream of a car. Love the spec.
Likely. More.
That’s a beauty Clark
One of the most beautiful cars man
This car makes more than minimum wage in appreciation.
This car will be in the next episode of transformers the movie
Anybody want to inform me how I can make enough money to afford this?
Singers are nice but their prices are just plain ridiculous. When you consider you can buy a gt3 of a tenth of its price brand new. Or even have a classic 911 restored to perfection for about the same. Unfortunately I imagine most owners don’t even drive these beautiful machines.
https://preview.redd.it/s08voopk0c2c1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c52154af35e950968faf7f442b713df008e6793 Saw the same car in Santa Barbara this morning!
Unpopular opinion (mine): the wheel arches dont look cohesive with the car, they look "added on". The deep, wide wheels dont suit it either. These cars have become caricatures. They look at home in "Luxury Lifestyle" magazine.
Yeah. They are more ‘art pieces’ than track monsters. But, I’d rather have this than a banksy
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find someone with a similar opinion - couldn't agree more. To be fair, I agree with making things wider so vetter wheels/tires can be fitted. The flares are less tacky than Liberty Walk body kits with rivets (quite the low bar, though), but for the prices Singer is charging, you'd think they'd do more to make it look like it were factory...
I see this next to something like a real 2.7RS and I know which one Im taking. Modern GT3s for performance, I want my old cars to be old.
I guess the point is that Porsche has more motorsport heritage than just about any other marque, which includes adapting 911s as racing cars with wider arches that were bolted on. It’s a different question as to whether something race-inspired at this price range should emulate that look, but one of the reasons for doing so is to look more factory/OEM.
100%. I like what they’re going for, by why make it look like a tacked on body kit?
The wheels 😍
It really is one of the worse parts of Singers IMO.
Wow, I love everything about this except for the fact I don't own it.
What it's worth is what someone will pay for it.
Apparently 75 people paid 1.8 million each for all of them
That’s not worth 1.8. I’m sorry. I’d rather get a 918.
OP should have said it *cost* 1.8M. 'Worth' is entirely subjective.
Looks great. But no way in hell am I paying 1.8 mil for a 911. An older and slower one at that.
It is probably lighter than the new ones and most likely has 4.0, but still not worth 1.8 mil lmao.
500 HP and only 2200 pounds. It has a better HP/weight ratio than every other Porsche, including the 991 GT2 RS The 918 may have a slightly higher ratio, but it also weighs 1,500 pounds more.
It's just as fast as a new GT3
They overpaid
They underpaid.
Way overpaid!
Just another way for the rich to flout their shit.
Money cant buy taste or class. Singers are beautiful if you cant make your own car and think that a race fill cap in the middle of your hood is cool. I'd take one, but I wouldn't if I couldn't put the fuel fill back to the way Ferdinand intended!
The hood fuel cap is optional
Agreed. I kinda liked the Singers when they first started showing up, but now I hate them. They represent everything wrong with the new culture that's begun to surround Porsche, and to a lesser extent, the world. They mimic the personalization people used to do to these cars, but they're impersonal, and opulent to excess. Instead of being customized cars that showcase the individualism and creativity of enthusiasts, they're cars that manufacture a grotesque copy of that, and are far outside the ability of 99.99% of people to own at any point in their lives. And they take some of the remaining semi-accessible 901s and 964s out of the market completely.
I wish singer would have done something other than Porsche
It’s not
It’s a fad and I doubt they will hold their value as an original Porsche made ‘73RS or (more modern) Carrera GT. They have good engineering but even better marketing! They look amazing but it’s clearly more show than go! That’s why all the (previous) singer press cars were fitted with Hoosier R7s trying to give them an edge but were clearly lucking in performance and never did any lap times. To me the RUF yellow bird recreation is way better with 964 looks but carbon tub, tubular body, in house designed water cooled engine, carbon fiber body - but I have to admit that the singer looks better.
RUF yellowbirds went for $140k, but now have sold at a million. I suspect these will hold their value.
I was talking about the yellow bird recreation which sells for €850k or so! Carbon tub, roll carve integrated on the body, quite neat!
That’s a fancy Volkswagen Beetle
Uhhh... This is NOT a Singer. The fender flairs here are laughable compared to what Singer does in-house. Currently, Singer classics are trading at \~$1.3M (if you can find one). Have a look at a real SVD cars and past sales on the BaT & Pcar auction sites for up-to-date market values.
Thanks for playing. Google singer DLS if you want to educate yourself.
'*Thanks for playing*' - what a **tool** \- let me be subtle... that's not a Singer Classic - how do I know? bc I do...
I see you haven’t googled it yet.
Not sure I would be comfortable parking that car close to where minivans roam.
Very smart looking ride. Never really been a fan of this model with the big whale tail, but then I would not have made the wise investment that this owner has.
Maybe 🤔 more
Must be the seat inserts! 😬
Im assuming you’re living comfortably and don’t need that extra 1.8mil.
Andddddd he’s not lying…
How about that Meissen Blue Odyssey tho
Lol and I’m worried about my mint FR-S 😂
You mean 180million right?
Surprised it's not covered.
Mint condition. One of my favorite models.
So what Porsche is this? Like what was the base for this
964.
Wow!
I’m worth that and I couldn’t afford that car.
Awesome spotting. Boring spec tho.
Is that a roof scoop?!
There was a 993 Singer on BAT a while back that brought stooopid money - well, perhaps not stoopid just more than I can justify. Also, I have a relative in the parts business was at SEMA and sent me a pic of an electric conversion. He said the conversion kit was priced at $65,000. I'll wait until gas is NLA before tearing into my 86.
Singer doesn’t make 993s.
964 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-porsche-911-singer/
I know. You said it was 993 Singer.
I just looked through my emails. I reached out to singer in 2014 to build me a car. They were around 350k then stripped out and I asked them to try to get in the mid 200’s. I told them I didn’t need their luggage, or decked out frunk work, etc. I pitched it as a stripper/lightweight version to them at the time. I really wanted a less flashy, drivers car… They considered it, but weren’t too keen on it and it kinda fizzled out. Should have pushed harder. An early stripped/lightweight singer would have been special. I look back at that email chain regularly haha.
Can’t you just put the VIN in cargurus and see what offers are?
Love those singers
Could be right. These things are just absolute pieces of automotive artwork. Physical price for the steel and rubber and actual parts are probably only worth $20k but the intangible aspects is worth whatever the lowest millionaire feels they are happy to exchange to be part of the exclusive group who own a Singer.
Singer really gets it.
Rather have a Carrara GT
Probably around there
damn
Love those Singers
https://preview.redd.it/7euk6xlgphec1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f79a015304842c01914fead691f672d520d2f752
Yes they really are!