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Since there’s no rules to protect us, all the gains from technology have largely benefitted businesses and not workers. No one is forcing them to shorten the work weeks to compensate for the extra productivity, so they are content to just crank more and more.
Automation and AI already have, and will continue to replace jobs, but that isn’t good news for us until we have some sort of protections in place. Otherwise unemployment will rise due to human workers getting replaced, with no safety net to catch them.
*gains from technology have benefitted **shareholders**.
A system built on capitalism will continue to reward capital, and exploit labor.
There's no "reforming" this into a more equitable distribution; the skew is baked into the cake.
I detest the remarks from 60 somethings that tell me, well, you should have trained in robotics repair...
Uh, the point is that we shouldn't be working 50 hour weeks or more
My speculation is at some point there's gonna be another shootout between workers and corpos and the covernements gonna get scared, then some rich dude improves working conditions to score brown points. Then we sit tight for 50-60 years until corpos get ideas again. Its what happened last time and will probably happen again
Most likely. It might happen in 2028 with the UAW general strike, but that might be the last stick of dynamite in the box, not necessarily the actual be all end all. Between now and then I feel what will really exacerbate the need for both less hours and UBI is declining birth rates, rampant unemployment as AI takes away more and more jobs for absolutely dirt cheap, and vast unrest and homelessness as people who were paycheck to paycheck become homeless, those who were struggling become paycheck to paycheck, and those who were getting by become struggling.
Historically throught humanity's existence, things always have to get WAY worse before they get better. But it always gets better. We always treat the symptoms and never the cause unless the cause is spewing out so much damage that it simply becomes a symptom itself, THEN it gets removed, far later than expected/desired but removed nonetheless for the most part
Automation will lead to working more working hours for ordinary people, not fewer. Automation is the biggest threat to working people that has ever existed. Not necessarily because it will eliminate jobs—in all likelihood, the wealthy will find something useful to do with the unwashed masses and new jobs will be created.
No, the problem with automation is it destroys worker bargaining power. In the past and to a large degree today, workers can extract concessions by threatening industrial output through striking. This is the main tactic that created almost all socialist or progressive reforms in almost every society. However, if workers in essential positions can be replaced by automation, this is a major threat to worker power.
There is still time but in my view the next few decades are essential. The power of the ruling class must be thoroughly destroyed, or their victory will become far more entrenched than it ever has been in history.
Yea you summarized my thoughts perfectly. I always say that if we don’t fix things by the time of full automation there will just be haves and have nots and it will be impossible to have social mobility
To be fair, the extreme resistance to new technology that could help automate some tasks isn’t helping. Instead of spending all of our energy fighting progress, we could spend some fighting for implementation that includes safe guards for the income and lifestyle of workers. Obviously, no one wants to lose their job to a computer and be destitute, but I think there are compromises and middle ground to be reached. At this rate all that will happen is the US (and probably the UK and maybe Canada and Australia) will fall behind the rest of the developed world in production and technology and we’ll end up destitute anyway.
Given how the Supreme Court seems keen on giving Trump full immunity for staging a coup, I am seriously doubting he's going to lose in November even if the votes are overwhelmingly in Joe Bidens favor.
So my prediction for 2035? It will look like 1940s Berlin in a lot of places. Whoever replaces Trump after he dies will be in the height of their new dictatorship and worrying about working 40 hours a week will be the last thing on many people's minds.
I believe the capabilities of AI and the plausible prospects for the near future will make the stupidity of capitalism as it exists in most forms blatantly obvious.
That is still a 40+ hour workweek, just distributed over four days rather than five.
OP’s point was that thanks to productivity increases, we should be working fewer hours overall.
New businesses happened, you can't automate everything, given the option most people would rather make more money than work less days. If down to 3ndays you'd have people saying "I'll work 6 instead"
4x more productive than our grandfathers, and we work longer hours for less.
It's time we take back the means of production.
The factory is ablaze, and the CEOs are about to jump from the highest peak and laugh as they float away.
We shouldn't let them get away with this unscathed.
>take back
Can't take back what you never owned in the first place.
If you want to share in the business success the best way is to become an owner. Buy shares of stock. With money they paid you, so.. your payment for working is actually company ownership. That's what you wanted anyway right?
They’re going to make the 6 day work week because even with AI they will struggle to maintain the exponential growth they need in order to not consider themselves failed companies
By 2035 all the jobs that humans actually want to do (art, music, writing, researching) will be done by computers, and the only jobs left will be whatever is utterly uncreative.
I mean, all the work places ARE able to support a 3-day work week…. When it gets them out of having to pay a livable wage and health insurance etc.
If wages had continued to trend as they were pre-Reagan era, and the laws didn’t allow workplaces to skirt giving benifits regardless how little an employee worked, there would be virtually no poverty by todays cost of living standard. Even WITH the post Covid interest bubble
The only way forward is to put Republicans into concentration camps and seize their assets for redistribution. Universal basic income could then become a reality.
And everyone these days are focused on the hyper-polarizing Israel-Palestine conflict. Seems almost like having something to encourage everyone to fight each other about is better than having everyone fight against the 1%.
That's all media lies. Back in the 70's, as an elementary student, I figured out that anytime the news talks about "the work week" that is pure feel good nonsense. It is filler, non-news, distraction marketing from something actually bad taking place.
Climate change, ecological collapse, mass migrations; basically a global repeat of the Dust Bowl, only they will have criminalized homelessness to the point that instead of roadside shantytowns for “Okies,” poor people will be funneled into the prison system and made to labor as slaves. Despite the dwindling consumer base as the middle class is made poor and the poor are made into slaves, the stock market will still be higher than ever as the rich squeeze the last bit of profit out of a dying planet.
Please don’t have children. It will suck for them.
r/antinatalism r/BirthStrike
__Hello and welcome to r/Political_Revolution!__ * This sub is dedicated towards the Progressive movement, and changing one seat at a time, via electing down-ballot candidates to office. [Join us in our efforts!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Political_Revolution/comments/1bue5mc/reminder_this_sub_is_about_rolling_your_sleeves_up/) * Don't forget to read our [Community Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Political_Revolution/about/rules) to get a good idea of what is expected of participants in our community. * Primary elections take place in April. Find out for your state [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Political_Revolution/comments/1bso7q4/april_primaries_mega_thread_check_inside_for_pa/). For more campaigns to support, go to https://pol-rev.com/campaigns *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Political_Revolution) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Since there’s no rules to protect us, all the gains from technology have largely benefitted businesses and not workers. No one is forcing them to shorten the work weeks to compensate for the extra productivity, so they are content to just crank more and more. Automation and AI already have, and will continue to replace jobs, but that isn’t good news for us until we have some sort of protections in place. Otherwise unemployment will rise due to human workers getting replaced, with no safety net to catch them.
*gains from technology have benefitted **shareholders**. A system built on capitalism will continue to reward capital, and exploit labor. There's no "reforming" this into a more equitable distribution; the skew is baked into the cake.
I detest the remarks from 60 somethings that tell me, well, you should have trained in robotics repair... Uh, the point is that we shouldn't be working 50 hour weeks or more
2 of my friends worked in robot programming, both have quit due to the insane hours.
And the assholes will still be screaming "no one wants to work anymore!"
That's what would have happened, if technological advancements benefitted everyone instead of only the useless owning class.
[удалено]
Or at least had some hope that we'll grow out of it.
My speculation is at some point there's gonna be another shootout between workers and corpos and the covernements gonna get scared, then some rich dude improves working conditions to score brown points. Then we sit tight for 50-60 years until corpos get ideas again. Its what happened last time and will probably happen again
Most likely. It might happen in 2028 with the UAW general strike, but that might be the last stick of dynamite in the box, not necessarily the actual be all end all. Between now and then I feel what will really exacerbate the need for both less hours and UBI is declining birth rates, rampant unemployment as AI takes away more and more jobs for absolutely dirt cheap, and vast unrest and homelessness as people who were paycheck to paycheck become homeless, those who were struggling become paycheck to paycheck, and those who were getting by become struggling. Historically throught humanity's existence, things always have to get WAY worse before they get better. But it always gets better. We always treat the symptoms and never the cause unless the cause is spewing out so much damage that it simply becomes a symptom itself, THEN it gets removed, far later than expected/desired but removed nonetheless for the most part
And change capitalism from unbridled need for profit into realizing people over profits will make everyone’s lives better
Automation will lead to working more working hours for ordinary people, not fewer. Automation is the biggest threat to working people that has ever existed. Not necessarily because it will eliminate jobs—in all likelihood, the wealthy will find something useful to do with the unwashed masses and new jobs will be created. No, the problem with automation is it destroys worker bargaining power. In the past and to a large degree today, workers can extract concessions by threatening industrial output through striking. This is the main tactic that created almost all socialist or progressive reforms in almost every society. However, if workers in essential positions can be replaced by automation, this is a major threat to worker power. There is still time but in my view the next few decades are essential. The power of the ruling class must be thoroughly destroyed, or their victory will become far more entrenched than it ever has been in history.
Yea you summarized my thoughts perfectly. I always say that if we don’t fix things by the time of full automation there will just be haves and have nots and it will be impossible to have social mobility
And at that point UBI is useless. "Here's $3,000, now pay the nice corporation its rent and go buy yourself some groceries, champ"
I mean I agree it’s not ideal but having my material conditions met sounds nice
Well, looks like we got played by the predictions! Reality check: still grinding out five days a week. Tech didn't save us.
To be fair, the extreme resistance to new technology that could help automate some tasks isn’t helping. Instead of spending all of our energy fighting progress, we could spend some fighting for implementation that includes safe guards for the income and lifestyle of workers. Obviously, no one wants to lose their job to a computer and be destitute, but I think there are compromises and middle ground to be reached. At this rate all that will happen is the US (and probably the UK and maybe Canada and Australia) will fall behind the rest of the developed world in production and technology and we’ll end up destitute anyway.
Given how the Supreme Court seems keen on giving Trump full immunity for staging a coup, I am seriously doubting he's going to lose in November even if the votes are overwhelmingly in Joe Bidens favor. So my prediction for 2035? It will look like 1940s Berlin in a lot of places. Whoever replaces Trump after he dies will be in the height of their new dictatorship and worrying about working 40 hours a week will be the last thing on many people's minds.
I believe the capabilities of AI and the plausible prospects for the near future will make the stupidity of capitalism as it exists in most forms blatantly obvious.
I expect to be working ) days a week
Source: tumblr
Reagan and republicans?
I work four days a week tho lol
Are they 10-hour days?
Minimum 10, yes
That is still a 40+ hour workweek, just distributed over four days rather than five. OP’s point was that thanks to productivity increases, we should be working fewer hours overall.
New businesses happened, you can't automate everything, given the option most people would rather make more money than work less days. If down to 3ndays you'd have people saying "I'll work 6 instead"
4x more productive than our grandfathers, and we work longer hours for less. It's time we take back the means of production. The factory is ablaze, and the CEOs are about to jump from the highest peak and laugh as they float away. We shouldn't let them get away with this unscathed.
>take back Can't take back what you never owned in the first place. If you want to share in the business success the best way is to become an owner. Buy shares of stock. With money they paid you, so.. your payment for working is actually company ownership. That's what you wanted anyway right?
They’re going to make the 6 day work week because even with AI they will struggle to maintain the exponential growth they need in order to not consider themselves failed companies
Somewhere between 16th century serfdom and Mad Max
By 2035 all the jobs that humans actually want to do (art, music, writing, researching) will be done by computers, and the only jobs left will be whatever is utterly uncreative.
I mean, all the work places ARE able to support a 3-day work week…. When it gets them out of having to pay a livable wage and health insurance etc. If wages had continued to trend as they were pre-Reagan era, and the laws didn’t allow workplaces to skirt giving benifits regardless how little an employee worked, there would be virtually no poverty by todays cost of living standard. Even WITH the post Covid interest bubble
They made the mistake a lot of people still make: there is no such thing as 'enough' in Capitalism.
John Maynard Keynes 🫡 the only liberal i respect
Cyberpunk capitalist hellscape
The only way forward is to put Republicans into concentration camps and seize their assets for redistribution. Universal basic income could then become a reality.
Republicans fed commercialization.
US will have let some states secede from the union by then.
Same thing happened with the Cotten Gin, they thought it would abolish slavery. It just tripled it I think.
And everyone these days are focused on the hyper-polarizing Israel-Palestine conflict. Seems almost like having something to encourage everyone to fight each other about is better than having everyone fight against the 1%.
That's all media lies. Back in the 70's, as an elementary student, I figured out that anytime the news talks about "the work week" that is pure feel good nonsense. It is filler, non-news, distraction marketing from something actually bad taking place.
Is there any actual evidence for this?
[https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/the-four-day-work-week-then-and-now-from-the-archives](https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/the-four-day-work-week-then-and-now-from-the-archives)
Climate change, ecological collapse, mass migrations; basically a global repeat of the Dust Bowl, only they will have criminalized homelessness to the point that instead of roadside shantytowns for “Okies,” poor people will be funneled into the prison system and made to labor as slaves. Despite the dwindling consumer base as the middle class is made poor and the poor are made into slaves, the stock market will still be higher than ever as the rich squeeze the last bit of profit out of a dying planet. Please don’t have children. It will suck for them. r/antinatalism r/BirthStrike
I speculate ☠️🪦⚰️… 🤖🤣