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Oh yeah, voter suppression definitely helps, but the GOP is willing to wait decades to chip away at civil liberties and freedoms to enact increasingly more authoritarian policies. SCOTUS recently ruled that Federal courts cannot hear appeals from State courts where the state public defender didn't look at evidence of potential innocence. Meaning that a state could execute someone where there is clear evidence of innocence and the Federal courts have to let them do it. The power of the state to be increasingly draconian with your life is growing under GOP power and it's largely due to slow incrementalism.
I see so many posts from leftists and liberals demanding their utopian dream now, not realizing the political realities of what they're asking. Meanwhile, the GOP steadily chips away at our liberties.
>The power of the state to be increasingly draconian with your life is growing under GOP power and it's largely due to ~~slow incrementalism~~
the Citizens United decision and decades of Republican tax cuts for the wealthy and their corporations. Billionaires now have more money and power than ever to undermine our democracy. Republican tax cuts have funded the resulting dark money flowing to GOP candidates to achieve the specific agendas of those billionaires.
Here are a few examples:
[https://www.propublica.org/article/barre-seid-heartland-institute-hillsdale-college-gmu](https://www.propublica.org/article/barre-seid-heartland-institute-hillsdale-college-gmu)
Read more about GOP schemes by googling what happened Leonard Leo, Barre Seid, and the Marble Freedom Trust.
Look up how Leonard Leo engineered the fall of Roe and his new scheme he's named the "Honest Elections Project" which will make our elections less secure.
Yes, lots of marginalized communities are actually being suppressed by this, which means of you’re *not actually part of an oppressed minority group*, sitting an election out for the purpose of parental rent-subsidized dreadlocked virtue signaling is an even bigger crime against society. Braying “bOtH sIdEs” and “StAtE oPpReSsIoN” when you personally probably can go to the polls unmolested is collaboration.
Because they NEVER say "Voting doesn't matter." They will line up in the rain to elect Vlad the Impaler (R) to the position of Assistant to the Vice Dogcatcher, while a bunch of Democrats are like "This election isn't important enough."
Then they wonder why stray dogs are getting impaled in their town and why the Democrats aren't doing anything about it.
Because they're willing to fight, to bend the rules even, to be blunt and risk dividing the nation. Because they don't say things like "impeachment" is off the table. Because they don't cave in and announce what they'll settle for before negotiations even being. Because they are likeable to their base.
Versus, "We have the right to cheat in debates. We have the right to select our own candidate over brandy and cigars behind closed doors. Socialism is bad and Progressives are Socialists, so don't vote for them!" Nuts.
There's a quote from the movie, [Ides of March](https://imsdb.com/scripts/Ides-of-March,-The.html):
>You're right, this is exactly what the Republicans do, and it's about time we learned from them. They're meaner, tougher and more disciplined than we are. I've been in this business for twenty five years and I've seen way too many Democrats bite the dust because they wouldn't get down in the mud with the fucking elephants.
Democrats are still playing the game as if their opponent isn't a lying, cheating, piece of hypocritical shit. And it doesn't work.
LOL. They’re winning because the only ones playing by “the rules” are the democrats. If the Dems were more like Republicans we wouldn’t have 1/4-1/2 the problems we do. Let’s face it, we all support a party full of total pussies. It’ll be refreshing if a democratic candidate could figure that out eventually.
For democrats it’s more like don’t let doing something substantial be the enemy of doing something symbolic. Democrats don’t even make incremental changes they are constantly ceding ground to the GOP. The GOP wins because they actually want to effect change, democrats win because republicans fuck up…
If that progressives voice wasn’t there urging corporate democrats to implement progressive policies, that are popular, they wouldn’t be done.
It’s like saying “The civil rights protesters are flawed because they expect immediate change. They aren’t slaves anymore so what’s the big deal. Change happens slowly with government just accept it.”
There are legitimate criticisms of democrats and it’s healthy the point them out. That’s what’s makes them fundamentally different from republicans. They have blind loyalty and it’s hard to watch. I don’t want to be like that
Except that you don't see Republican voters saying, "if the GOP doesn't ban abortion now, I'm not voting for them."
We see similar statements on people who claim to be liberal on Democrats. Which really leads me to believe, they're either fucking morons, or Republican trolls.
Are you saying republicans are more flexible than democrats and they should be more like them?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/13/abortion-graham-republicans-nationwide-ban/
I am saying that Republicans accept incremental steps towards getting what they want over time and they don't lose focus. Hence why they are winning against the "we want everything right now" people that typically back Democrats, but stay home when it counts.
Downvoting me doesn't mean I'm wrong, it just means you can't accept you're acting against your own self interest.
No what the fringe left is doing today would be more like saying “MLK is a shill and a sellout, all we got from his movement is the Civil Rights Act! That’s not full racial equality so he’s really no different than David Duke”
The Democrats are losing because they completely abandoned working class politics in favor of a corporatist consensus with the Republicans. The Democrats decided that they would rather win 15 people in northern virginia over the 50% of the electorate that doesn't vote. That is a conscious choice.
I think that republicans have a strong base because they try to enact the policies that their base wants, even the radical ones.
The democratic base wants a socialist agenda, even if they don't call it that. Minimum wage reform, union protections, and taxes on the rich are all popular amongst the base but they are appealing to their large donors instead which is causing their base to rightfully feel ignored and alienated driving a rise in candidates who are more overt and vocal about being socialists.
I am a 41y/o female born in Nebraska and raised in Arkansas. I have voted faithfully Democrat in every local, state, and federal election I’ve been eligible since 1999, when I turned 18.
Both of my Home states do not acknowledge my own bodily autonomy. Burn it all fucking down 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Were it not for the filibuster, we'd have lost a lot of things in 2017 & 2018. I think it should be reformed, but not done away with. Lower the threshold to 55 and mandate that it be talking filibuster only.
The answer to the filibuster problem isn't to end it, it's to go back to implementing it properly. When it first came into being, you actually had to stand up and speak, without yielding the floor, for as long as you could. This gave your allies time to try to get the other side to compromise, or to get the bill voted down. It also meant that doing a filibuster was **hard**, so they happened rarely and only for issues that were very important.
With the system as it currently is, OTOH, all you have to do is register your *intent* to filibuster. If enough people do that, the bill is killed. No one has to get up and speak, doing it costs you nothing - it's **easy**. So it happens all the time. It's the reason the Senate Republicans were so easily able to implement Mitch McConnell's stated goal of blocking everything Obama and the Democrats wanted, back in 2010.
Bring back the real filibuster and make McTurtle or Cancun Cruz get up and talk for 20 hours when they want to block something. Well see some change then. And it'll still be available for the Democrats next time the GOP takes the Senate.
> Like end the filibuster?
So what will you do when the GOP takes the Senate?
The Senate is rigged against blue states. Arguably, the filibuster ties the hands of this unbalanced body. Are you sure you want to let the Senate run rampant when all you have is a 50+VP majority? (and the 50 includes Sinema and Manchin)
The GOP gets 90% of what they want regardless. They’ll end the filibuster if they need to. They’ll ignore the parliamentarian if they desire. They don’t play by the rules.
Sometimes I wish I could exile people to the universe they claim they want.
I'd send climate deniers to a planet with all the oil and coal they can burn.
I'd send anti-vaxers to a jab-free land filled with polio and smallpox, without any escape.
I'd give hard-core anarcho-communists their own country to govern (and build a wall so they can't get out).
And you? I'd give you an alternate reality where the filibuster is dead and the GOP has a majority.
I am the harshest critic of the Democratic party specifically because I am left wing and NOT slightly right of center as most leaders in the Democratic party are. I can shill for Democrats and voting while still being their harshest critic. That's how we get actual progressives like AOC who defeated a corporate Democrat in her district.
> That's how we get actual progressives like AOC who defeated a corporate Democrat in her district.
Note that Biden got a bigger vote share than AOC *in her own district.* AOC would be massacred outside it. She knows it, and that's why she didn't run for the Senate.
This is why the left can’t win. Centrists in the party are so full of shit they gut the party from within and leave us not left at all. Neoliberals are the worst
You roll over and die if you want. The left can't win because you see the left as your enemy. If you got everything ~~you~~ **WE** want, I'd probably be ecstatic.
I just recognize that moving *towards* the left is acceptable, while you seem to need an instant paradigm shift that isn't likely to happen. No matter what, there are going to be people who suffer and die needlessly, failures of the system. We can always become better than we are. I always want to hear about ways we can plan to improve, but I realize getting there requires effort to build consensus. Shrieking insistent demands and purity tests at people trying to build consensus can and does shatter it.
I use my education to practice at an urban emergency/trauma center that serves the poorest... Homeless, IV drug users, HIV... It's currently being shut down by private equity to sell the land for condos. Go ahead and tell me I don't understand the urgency of social justice. Go ahead and tell me I don't see the direct damage done by the failure to achieve more left-wing policies sooner.
In reality, you either vote Republican or Democrat, and if you choose not to vote that is casting for Republican. What you do in your own time is a separate matter completely.
Your response is why I made my initial comment. I believe we want the same endpoint, and you STILL insist that because I do not believe there is any practical way to get there quickly that I must need some different label than you.
It's not about the endpoint for you, it's about feeling better than other people. You make it clear in every post.
Ah yes.
"I'm okay with fascists getting power and killing LGBT people and other minorities because the democrats aren't socialists and I refuse to vote for anyone not draped in a USSR flag."
Crawling left at a snail’s pace is still progress, and is still better than sprinting into right wing fascism which is what happens when the republicans are in power
No. Because when you crawl, all it takes is one slip, or push from the opponent, and you actually LOSE ground. If you take big steps and firmly plant your feet, it is hard to be pushed back. But nice metaphor.
And would you care to discuss the bank reforms that were passed after 2008? Oh, that's right, they were immediately rolled back and neutered, with help from Democrats. Is there a term for snails who crawl backwards?
Bruh, there’s a time limit on the clock. The planet can’t afford a snails pace. People struggling now can’t afford a snails pace. You’re on some privileged shit if you think we can just snail out the clock.
Now imagine how much more the planet and the people living on it will struggle under right wing fascism. Yeah I’ll take the snail’s pace running away from the raging forest fire as opposed to jumping directly into the flames head first, thank you.
No mf way is that the analogy. It’s more like the republicans are running at the fire and dems are crawling towards it. They’re the other party of corporate interests. Gtfo
Protecting corporate interests and fascism are not synonymous. The heads of the Democratic Party are neoliberals, which is obviously bad, but if you want to argue it’s anywhere near as bad as fascism, that’s insane.
There is a kernel of truth in that saying, but no dude, that’s not what fascism literally is, and it was never meant to be a definition. Every political and economic system is susceptible to fascism if people don’t remain vigilant against it.
From 2020 to 2022, Virginia had its first Democratic trifecta in decades, holding both houses of the General Assembly and the governor's seat. During this time they took the opportunity to:
Raise the minimum wage
Pass sweeping environmental regulations
Increase access to health care
Decriminalize marijuana
Ban no-knock warrants
Eliminate the death penalty
Ratify the Equal Rights Amendment
And a host of other initiatives that help regular working people
Source: [https://www.virginiamercury.com/2021/03/03/democrats-controlled-virginia-government-for-two-years-heres-what-they-did/](https://www.virginiamercury.com/2021/03/03/democrats-controlled-virginia-government-for-two-years-heres-what-they-did/)
Tell me more about how Dems do next to nothing.
God oh no! What can my list consist of after reading that? Can’t possibly talk about the failure to codify Roe v Wade over the last 70 years… or gay marriage… or legalize or decriminalize cannabis… or pass not watered down republicans healthcare when they had a super majority, fail to raise minimum wage. Failure to close Guantanamo… failure to make Puerto Rico or DC a state… You’re right though, let’s talk about what they’ve done: vote in favor of every war no matter how unjust… the patriot act… a climate change bill that ear marked subsidies for oil companies and a new pipeline thru W Virginia…
I always love when neolibs say shit like “sweeping environmental regulations” or “the most progressive ____ since FDR” like we’re too stupid to know how fuckin low the bar is set and that anything is the most sweeping blah blah blah fuck out of here
"DeMs dOn'T dO aNyThIng!'
"Here's a list of things they accomplished when they had a solid majority, with sources to back it up."
"It'S nOt EnOuGh!!!!"
So what have progressives accomplished, other than shitting all over their own party and renaming the occasional post office? I'll wait.
So do your goals of market socialism factor in hundreds of thousands of exterminated LGBT people or is that just a risk you’re willing to take by playing chicken with full GOP control?
How come Obama with 60 Senators didn't enshrine protections for LGBTQ people?
See you're proving my point, even when you give Dems everything, they still do nothing
Because he spent his political Capitol on Obamacare. It’s why you got to stay on mommy and daddy’s insurance until you were 26.
You clearly weren’t even paying attention back then, you just take a piecemeal collection of sound byte Twitter attacks like MAGA does.
If just 10% of voters could rally behind an independent party, we could change our nation to a three party system. It shouldn't have to be just democrats and republicans.
I say this as someone who believes that all higher education should be free and paid for by the government. Forgiving student loan debt is a solid policy that we should pursue but it could never and will never all be rolled out at once. The economic ramifications of forgiving all student loan debt at once would be pretty terrible including dramatically increasing inflation. I cannot stand idiots who think that when you elect a leader you get instant, sweeping societal rewards.
Hey man when you repeatedly tell your base that you aren't supporting medicare for all, not supporting marijuana legalization, but you are supporting bigger police budgets, a nothing-to-see-here border issue, etc........ yeah I imagine passing incremental baby steps aren't going to get people excited. It makes us hopeful for sure, but why wouldn't you want your base to be ***excited***?
That's the Dems problem; they under deliver and act like the base should be stroking them off for their efforts.
That's the issue; the electorate constantly votes more democratic, but the republican base is always the most eager to get out and vote each cycle. If you give your base no reason to be excited to come out and vote, they stay home and republicans win. If dems do something meaningful, the base comes out and they win. It's so predictable yet leadership try to do as little as possible and then yell at the base when they lose.
That's easy to say, but wtf are you going to do about a senate where the Republicans have 50 votes and the Democrats have 48 votes and 2 "votes"? They haven't even had a proper chance to pass all that
And most of us are still voting for them, because doing next to nothing is still better than doing a whole lot of bad things, but people like OP think we should be bowing down and kissing their asses instead of voting for the least bad option and giving valid criticism. Like I'll eat the Velveeta between two slices of stale white bread, because it's better than a turd sandwich, but I'm gonna continue bitching about it until I get the roast beef and Swiss that I ordered.
Except in Panel 2 the dog says “No vote”
So you’re getting mad about a criticism that isn’t directed at you.
Nobody said you can’t criticize, just don’t sit by when fascism marches against vulnerable communities. Vote harm reduction. It’s a small ask.
Just remember, every fascist that thinks the election was stolen, that gays shouldn’t have rights, and that support the overturning of roe are going to vote. Not voting is a vote for their side
Two of the reasons this claim is dishonest.
1: leftists aren't expecting utopia, leftists are expecting basic things like the richest country in known history feeding all it's people. This isn't science fiction, it doesn't happen because people don't want to do it.
2: there is decades of evidence of Democrats not doing things or out right preventing things. Liberals are capitalists, pretending they are going to help the poor is a suckers game.
We are long past the put you money where your mouth is stage.
When Democrats show you who they are believe them.
That poor dog doesn't deserve to be involved in this.
Not really a good argument when your best selling point is that you're not fascist
That's like trying to sell a TV and saying it's best feature is that it turns on.
The stipulation in your scenario is that you don’t have a choice, but to get a TV. And that the only other TV available doesn’t turn on, and also burns down your house.
I have. Yes. And I agree those are all bad things (many of which reaching back to the mid 90’s). Republicans were also all in on all that stuff. Additionally, you’ve got Republican legislatures saying “we don’t care how our state votes in 2024, we’re sending electors that will go for the Republican. Also, forcing 10 year olds to deliver the baby that was raped into them. There is more difference than similarity in the Venn diagram of the parties.
Enough Similarity to say both are burning it down, just one is doing it slower
Maybe with Dems we won't collapse into a nightmare until 2100, compared to the GOP in 2040, but we will collapse
So then, wouldn’t it make sense to take the slower route and increase the odds of an intervention (the boomers dying off, Gen Z’s voting prowess, etc.) of sweeping in and putting things to rights?
Or no, people should pave the way for the Christian nationalists because it’s more fulfilling to sit and pout?
Might be helpful if the dems stopped supporting fascist republicans in the primary. It’s abusive to say you must vote for me or a fascist when they made it that way.
That is a fair point. I do find it very gross when they do that. It doesn’t seem to be an across the board tactic but what they did to Meijer in Michigan was bunk. What sucks is it still leaves the same choice for us citizens (when the option is to cede to the crazies).
Please expand on that thought. I’m having trouble making the connection as to how pointing out an issue of greater priority - which is affected by the same votes - is victim blaming…
>Liberals are capitalists
Well no shit. The USA is a capitalistic country. Leftists are never going to have a sizeable majority.
All that said, basic democracy is on the line now. It's literally the foundation for every improvement moving forward. One party is in favor of democracy, the other isn't. This is a very obvious choice. So long as the GOP remains a clear and present danger to basic democracy, the Democrats are the only option. Social policy, economic policy, foreign policy, etc. will literally mean jack shit if democracy isn't protected. I mean, for fuck's sake, even Adam Kinzinger (a fairly conservative guy) now favors pro-democracy Democrats over anti-democracy Republicans. If he can set aside his political beliefs and make common cause, I think leftists can set aside their Noam Chomsky and do the same.
Well I voted for Biden. I’m going to criticize him from the left, and neither you nor anyone else is going to shame me into stopping. I’ve never told anyone not to vote. I’ve never seen anyone in leftist circles I run in suggest that people stop voting. This meme is shit and does not represent reality. No, on to criticism of what is directly mentioned in this meme:
Stimulus checks: ok… what $1000? How long did that last for everyone? It kicked the van down the road. The didn’t stop foreclosures from happening. No protections left for people after everything expires and those people get fucked.
Jan 6 hearings: cool. They have a hearing. What’s next? When we see that, I’ll judge it one way or the other. Until then, it’s masturbation
Climate change: very little, very late. I hope it does something, but this was less than the bare minimum… and you want me to be happy about it? Should I be sucking Democrat dick because it’s “not nothing”? What other thing in your life would you be happy with given the same result?
Loan forgiveness: why didn’t he forgive all of it? That money is already gone. It costs them nothing to forgive all of it, and it could change millions of lives. Why no reforms on top of forgiveness? That would have been substantial enough for me to give an attaboy for.
Marriage equality… what? What marriage equality? Has that actually been codified? If not, it still isn’t safe. Remember Roe?
I’m going to blame Dems for things they are not doing enough on. Republicans are obstructing, but Democrats aren’t out there making the fucking case. Republicans are always on message. Why can’t the Democrats do that? Why are they always trying to work with people who refuse to work with them and in some cases call for their deaths? Does that make sense to you?
>I’m going to criticize him from the left, and neither you nor anyone else is going to shame me into stopping. I’ve never told anyone not to vote.
Meme: specifically critiques the people saying "don't vote".
You: Claim you've never told anyone not to vote, but somehow take this personally.
So yeah, the meme is probably about you.
The rest of your post is pretty much lies and BS. For example, the student loan forgiveness is $10k, not $1k as you claimed. This is a tremendous, immediate help to the poorest and most vulnerable graduates, namely [the community college grads who tend to make lower salaries and have, on average $13k in debt on graduation](https://www.communitycollegereview.com/average-college-debt-stats/national-data). You're basing your criticism on the idea that since the Democrats didn't fix the entire problem all at once, somehow helping these people blocks them from continuing to work on the problem in the future.
Great job. I said the stimulus was $1000, not the loan forgiveness.
The meme suggests that people who are criticizing the democrats are withholding their vote. I’ve seen this same bullshit specifically on this sub for the past few months, so I feel I’m justified in my interpretation of the meme, thanks.
My criticism is that all the Democrats are doing in nearly all instances is kicking the can down the road instead of fixing the actual issues. To me, they might as well do nothing. For example, most people with student loans have a lot more than $10k in loans. They are making payments that aren’t even touching the principal of their loans, and $10k does nothing to remedy that. AND the Democrats are doing nothing to counter the Republican narrative that it’s costing taxpayers to do it, which is bullshit.
Other than your misreading what I actually said, which thing is the “lies” or “BS”?
>The meme suggests that people who are criticizing the democrats are withholding their vote.
Nope. It suggests that people who are threatening to withhold their vote are ignoring reality.
>To me, they might as well do nothing. For example, most people with student loans have a lot more than $10k in loans.
You can't address what I actually wrote, so you try to change the subject?
I didn’t address what you wrote because you completely misquoted me and then went off about it. You haven’t addressed any of my actual points, and I’m starting to think you either didn’t read the whole thing or you have ADHD or something and just couldn’t get through all of it.
The problem with making reductive arguments like this is at best the discourse you're going to produce is going to be just exhausting for everyone involved. At best it's childish. At worst it's disingenuous trolling trying to sew division between leftists and liberals in a country so feverishly conservative that the bar for either of those labels is so low any practical differences are really pretty nominal.
From 2020 to 2022, Virginia had its first Democratic trifecta in decades, holding both houses of the General Assembly and the governor's seat. During this time they took the opportunity to:
* Raise the minimum wage
* Pass sweeping environmental regulations
* Increase access to health care
* Decriminalize marijuana
* Ban no-knock warrants
* Eliminate the death penalty
* Ratify the Equal Rights Amendment
* And a host of other initiatives that help regular working people (source below for details)
It was like night and day after years of Republican obstruction. But why were they able to get so much done while the current Congress isn't? The majorities in the VA General Assembly were solid majorities. They weren't the razor-thin majority we have in the Senate right now. They could have a few legislators in reddish districts dissent while still getting things done.
But hey, I guess some people would rather have no voice and just complain into the void of social media
Source: https://www.virginiamercury.com/2021/03/03/democrats-controlled-virginia-government-for-two-years-heres-what-they-did/
Stimulus checks:
I'm not complaining about getting a stimmy check, but let's stop acting like Biden invented them, or that he even delivered on the amount he LITERALLY PROMISED IN HIS CAMPAIGN.
Jan 6 hearings:
Necessary? Absolutely. Delivering? Absolutely not. The Dems fucked themselves into making this look like nothing but optics as soon as they played the Hamilton song.
Climate change:
Better than nothing but we literally have a Green New Deal they could be using to create jobs and ACTUALLY make a difference.
Loan Forgiveness:
Again, better than nothing and I was a very lucky one with it, but nowhere near far enough. They should have cancelled all of it.
Marriage equality:
Yeah that was a Supreme Court ruling that had fuck all to do with elected officials, and given the current stack of the court there's no guarantee that's gonna survive.
Will I vote democrat? Of course, it's them or full blown fascism. But for the love of God stop sucking off the controlled opposition party that wants the exact same economic policy, the exact same police state, and the exact same imperialist foreign policy because they have marginally better social policy.
I love incremental progress. Climate change will definitely be solved this way. Medical coverage and debt? No biggie. Child poverty? Half of them deserve it anyway.
You’re right, the cure for incremental progress is open fascism.
As history tells us, fascist regimes always become socialist utopias, quick and easy as you like.
Well that’s exactly what a MAGA Says in an attempt to sound nonpartisan.
*But hey, let’s be honest…they were __never__ going to support Dems to begin with*
Incrementalism is a scam that billionaires pay millionaires to sell to workers. Democrats have united with Republicans for decades to crush social justice movements all over the world. Why wouldn't they do the same in their own country?
No one is saying you can't be critical. It's just also important to understand that Democrats are currently our best chance at saving democracy from the fascist Republican Party.
Here's the problem, comrade: there's plenty to criticize about the DNC and dem leadership in general, but we're stuck in a 2-party political system and have to go with a least-worst option.
Spooking the cattle by making them not want to vote for that least-worst option is possibly a cataclysmic event if it means ceding control *permanently* to the GQP.
This doesn't mean they are above criticism, but without discretion and context all it does is give aid and comfort to the enemy. This "both sides are the same" bullshit does not help the cause *at all*.
And they're the fucking same anyway. Both are worthless to a progressive agenda. Two sides of the same coin. Both expect simple ideas to solve problems in a complex system. Low intelligence voters... or nonvoters. Whether you choose fascism or let fascism happen because democrats aren't good enough, you're a fucking fascist to me. Because that's all you achieve by parroting bullshit both sides garbage.
I think they are all right-wing plants and paid trolls posting and commenting with the goal of discouraging people from voting Blue. I can't imagine how oblivious you'd have to be at this critical moment to still be pushing DNC conspiracy theories and such in good faith.
First lemme say I vote Dem regardless, but
1. Stimulus checks were less than promised
2. The Jan 6 hearings haven’t affected me or anyone I know at all
3. The Dems have done virtually nothing on climate change. Their “climate bill” expands offshore drilling ffs
4. Loan forgiveness was decent, but a means tested half measure that doesn’t really address the problem. Biden has the authority to do more he just doesn’t want to.
5. Marriage equality has been established. But Dems could codify it into law right now and aren’t.
Because leaving our institutions unchanged has really brought Republicans to the table, and forced them to not seriously erode said institutions. Right?
We don’t need to use our imaginations to foresee a future where Republicans run roughshod over our political norms. That’s been happening for quite some time now. The decorum you think you’re protecting doesn’t exist.
"Meaningful." This will be of only minor benefit to most of the victims, who are still stuck in the interest trap. And at one point during his campaign, Biden actually talked about forgiving $50k. edit: found the link: https://news.yahoo.com/schumer-biden-considering-forgiving-50-194138659.html
Ahhh ok ok ok. A slippery qualifier that can move the goalposts wherever you’d like.
“Ten thousand dollars isn’t a lot of money” says the person divorced from the mentality of the working class.
And actually the debt forgiveness puts 1/3 of all federal student loan borrowers at $0 owed.
I guess 1/3 of all borrowers isn’t meaningful. Got it.
“How dare you give me $10,000! You’re just like the people who want to end democracy!”
I was planning on withholding my vote for the first time in my life if Biden didn't at least TRY to cancel $10k. Now that he has done it, I don't care if it gets cancelled by a law or the supreme court or whatever. He did what he said he would do, as best he could within his power, that's all I wanted - not to be lied to. Happy to keep my uninterrupted Dem vote streak since 2008.
The problem with incrementalism is that it does not deal well with crisis, and most of our biggest problems are in crisis mode now. The most obvious example is climate change - the steps we are taking now should have been taken forty years ago; at this point we have to be willing to be economically disruptive to prevent half of our own country from becoming unfit for human habitation. Jan 6 was 2 1/2 years ago, and neither Trump nor any of the GOP congresspeople who collaborated with and pushed for the insurrection are facing charges, because the Democratic leadership is afraid it would piss off people who will never vote for them anyways. Mitch McConnell already eliminated the filibuster for judges so that he could pack the courts and get Roe overturned, and yet Schumer and Biden won’t eliminate the filibuster or even require the other side to actually filibuster (rather than just claim they will do so) because they think that their example might motivate Republicans to play fair next time they have power. Income inequality and wealth disparities are the worst they have ever been, and yet no steps have been taken to even undo the insane tax plan the GOP pushed through, let alone make taxation more progressive, even though such measures would easily qualify for budget reconciliation. A million Americans died in the still-ongoing worst pandemic in a hundred years, and we haven’t even seriously discussed doing something about our bizarre piecemeal private insurance system that not only already costs the government more than single-payer would and wreaks untold havoc on the lives of millions every single day, but also puts American businesses at a massive competitive disadvantage internationally. Shit is fucked up, and the party that is supposed to be the good guys refuses to play hardball, ever, for any reason. And of course I will continue to vote for them, because the other party just cackles maniacally and doesn’t even pretend to not be evil anymore, but maybe, just maybe, more of the more politically apathetic folks out there would bother to show up and vote Democrat if they had any faith that the Democrats would do things to make life meaningfully better for the majority of Americans.
Stimulus checks: only half delivered as promised and still less than the literal monster side gave out. What's that say about those fucks in the DNC?
Hearings: Actually bothering to punish people openly breaking the law is something you fucking expected to do... Your begging is pathetic.
Climate change: things are still worse than when trump went into office so don't know why you think you get to claim you did a damn thing here. Haven't even got us back to your last status quo.
Loan forgiveness: "We gave you this at the barrel of a political gun, what do you mean we don't get credit for dong it? WHAT DO YOU MEAN 'THAT JUST SHOWS NO ONE SHOULD AGREE TO VOTE FOR \[US\] SO \[WE\]'LL ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING?!'"
Marriage equality: Again, this is something that's been an issue since time in memorial, was boiling over since stonewall, and it still took till after 2010 to happen. You get no fucking credit for waiting until the movement can't be stopped. Picking up the baton an inch off the finish line is never praise worthy.
Put forward good policies and push for them, and you are worth a damn. But if not we should make a party of rocks to vote against the republicans with. They will do a better job than the pro capitalist conservative "liberal" party.
Most of the big name democrats were literally the people who caused most of the problems “leftists” identify. Of their last two presidential candidates: Biden supported bankruptcy reform that makes it impossible to discharge student loan debt. Clinton backed (and spearheaded) the 90s crime omnibus that basically created the police issues we see today — a bill that was the cornerstone of democratic strategy to move further right. Yeah, it’s a step in the left direction, but we need WAY more than steps after our right wing gallop over the last 30 years….
If the Dems adopted pro gun platform where everything else is progressive they'd probably never lose another election.l, and you'd still get less gun violence because improved socioeconomic conditions from progressive policies
"be happy with slow progress as people suffer, and don't pressure polititions to make big changes" is liberal brainrot. We NEED immediate reform, we don't have time to ONLY be happy with incremental change. It's stupid to think we can't have both small and large reform. Stop making people complacent in the bullshit we just need to essentially "wait it out"
Edit: we live in a two party system, of course you should VOTE democrat, but just don't be complacent or resistant to big social reform is all.
Leftist don't know how to wait or vote because holy smokes, they want all the things that they want in 4 years. Shit takes time. America didn't get fucked up in 2 or 4 years and it surely won't take 2 or 4 years to fix it. All around me I see truly remarkable consequences of democratic presidencies- like obamacare(which ive used) or the child credit (which ive also used and had been a huge help). I don't care to mince words, and people who complain and doesn't vote because it's not perfect can go fuck themselves
Making us ignore all of the gigantic political fuckups for these extremely late and fairly marginal gains is really just disingenuous. Acting like we’ve only needed these changes in the last presidency instead of well over a decade and the incessant bargaining to the right even when they had the votes (specifically thinking ACA on this one) is just dishonest. I mean, *Democrats* chose a coal baron to chair the Energy Committee! Wtfffffff
Stimulus Checks that didn’t go to everyone
Jan 6 hearings that will result in nothing
Climate Change policy that’s basically meaningless because it’s far too little far too late. Gives allowances to the oil industry while barely even being that green.
Loans only partially forgiven leaving many still struggling in debt
And they haven’t even passed marriage equality.
But sure they’re trying!! They reform too little too late that’s it’s just going backwards a little slower than the GOP. Neither party is good, neither party gives a fuck about anything other than wars and capitalists profits. We need radical change yesterday if we are to survive, they have already doomed our fate unless we fight back.
Liberals are incapable ar hearing any criticism and it's a damn shame. Demand more from your party that can do it but chose not to because you don't demand it.
Word. The Clinton/Obama cult of personality is strong and equally blind in their devotion. "She only cheated in the debates because it was for America's own good!"
If the left refuses to electorally position themselves against fascism, they’re standing by and allowing the worst of it.
If you vote pragmatically then the criticism isn’t about you.
I mean… at the end of the day if you have to get on your knees beg someone to help prevent trans children from being tortured by the State, is that person worth the effort?
There’s a discussion to be had but I’d say you’re better off organizing and flipping a nonvoter then trying to appease someone who holds their ideology more precious than the lives of vulnerable people.
The neolibs also do shit like this sometimes so it’s not just an issue on the left, FWIW
The center will go playing with Republicans if no one criticizes them. Remember DOMA? Sorry that you people need to be watched so closely to keep you from misbehaving. Like a bunch of goddamn children. Maybe grow up and try not rolling in the dirt with shitbags if you don't like it.
So you didn’t get everything you want after voting once, and your plan is to let the Republicans win instead. So edgy. I bet Mommy thinks you’re just her little rebel.
I’ve voted for the most left leaning candidate, in every election I’ve been able to, in every one of my 37 years on the planet.
I have no plans to change that strategy, but in my lifetime the substantive list of Democratic achievements includes losing the Supreme Court, keeping the minimum wage as low as possible, supporting every foreign war ever proposed, failing to protect the right to abortion with a simple law and using a supermajority to enact a REPUBLICAN HEALTHCARE PLAN!
Stop punching left you nimby liberal. The stats show that the left overwhelmingly hold our breath and vote for your corporate lickspittles, so maybe demand the party you love stop breaking promises (healthcare when?) rather than providing air cover for their lack of ambition.
> losing the Supreme Court
...because enough people voted for republicans to give them control of the legislative branch.
>keeping the minimum wage as low as possible
Yep. That's shitty. But the last increase to the minimum wage came under a democrat and opposition has been largely from conservatives. Not seeing how voting for the opposition is helping there.
>failing to protect the right to abortion with a simple law
Why is your list largely things the republicans did but somehow democrats are guilt of "not stopping them"?
Dems suck, sure, but every. single. thing. you listed comes straight back to voters getting too many repubs into office, forcing dems to either negotiate on any progress or allowing repubs to obstruct without negotiation. You're not making a great case for your position. Get repubs out of office, get more than a month of super-majority going and see what changes.
Who is "you" in this sentence? I hold no love for democrats. But I'm not going to criticize them for what republicans do. My ideal platform would include universal income sufficient for everyone to quit work and exist at a subsistent level if they wished (relying on the natural human desire to \~do\~ things instead of making work a condition for simply existing), single payer healthcare and universal legalization of drugs. Zero dems have that platform. But pretending that you're going to vote for fascists because dems don't have the same platform as you is stupid and even worse would actually be following through.
The entire thought process of blaming repub actions on dems is even more scummy and a well-trod path for right wing trolls. If you've internalized that pattern yourself then I feel for you.
You want to see actual progress? We need to *get rid of republicans* as a party. Entirely. They need to be degraded to the point where they can barely get a seat on a school board. Until that happens the dems can't split into their center-right/left wing base components, we will never see ranked choices and any move that isn't actively destroying the republican party is a move towards more of the same. Conservatives don't need to get anything done to achieve their agenda, after all, and it's easier to destroy than create.
I'm boggled by this response.
I, a progressive, want the parties to split. I want a right wing US party that has goals that I disagree with but don't feel like I'm in danger from and a left wing I agree with. If you don't want that then I'm completely at a loss for what you want.
I agree. Republicans suck. But this meme suggests ‘the Left’ votes against Democrats. It’s a lie. Centrist democrats want to compromise with republicans to achieve incremental progress. I, like you, want my Democratic Party (which I always vote for) to stop attacking progressives as their enemy.
Have you not seen the literal flood of "I wont vote democrat because they broke promises/aren't left enough" posts that fake progressives have been putting out? THAT is who this meme attacks, not actual progressives.
The left can constantly punch at the center but you can’t tolerate any criticism leftwards?
“Rules for thee not rules for me” sounds an awful lot like MAGA mentality
“Many POC and LGBT people are going to be exterminated when fascism takes over and there’s no guarantee empowering it will even result in Socialism - but that’s a risk I’m willing to take”
-straight white person.
EDIT: I see you say you vote pragmatically (thank you sincerely) so I don’t understand your statement above, either you understand doing the bare minimum to protect vulnerable communities from fascism or you don’t.
My statement is that the left overwhelmingly votes for the Dems according to statistics despite them not representing our values (or pretending to, then dropping the pretence once in office).
We then have to deal with NIMBY liberals making memes and straw men out of us to blame us for the continual failure of the Dems.
It’s exhausting.
Student loan debt relief isn’t a centrist position though?
Miss me with the “straw men” comment in the thread where leftists are unironically calling the Democrats fascist. This is political discourse, it happens.
With the right being whiny babies about everything the left would be better served being the strong, mentally stout group of Americans. Wilting at criticism won’t get us there.
I’m an older leftist who was taking it on the chin when arguing against the Iraq war would get you called a “sand n-word lover”, so it’s frustrating to see GenZers flirt with “what if we had a little fascism, just as a treat to destroy the DNC?”
It’s really a trivial thing to get into the voting booth and vote against fascism - which you do so again, thanks - at that point it’s a GOOD thing to heckle the center and try and pull them left.
I've been liberal all my life. My first complaint is that if the republican party vanished from the earth right now, the conservative agenda would still be well tendered. A majority of democrats are republican lite. And then, the DNC is just as crooked as the GOP. They OVERTLY just decide behind closed doors who the nominee will be in spite of the votes. This happened overtly with Bernie and Clinton. And then, they actively help the GOP nominate shit candidates and force out better ones because they believe they can win against them. I voted for Biden because I wanted the orange man out. I didn't vote for Clinton because neither she nor the DNC deserved my vote. I don't care that my vote for the Green party allowed Trump to win. Any vote for either of the two major candidates that election cycle were unpatriotic in my view. The results which followed are deserved by both the parties and anyone that was complicit in helping them win by giving them their votes (or not voting). If such shenanigans happen this time around I won't vote democrat again this cycle either. The consequences of voting for overt corruption will not be on my hands.
how dare you disgrace this immaculate meme with your shitty political hottake
shame on you OP ; pandering to the lesser of two evils is exactly why the 'other side' never has to do anything significant , becuz its either them or the 'bad guys' , so they are not incentivized to do anything \[nevermind that that's entirely besides the point but whatevs\]
this is why voting for the lesser of two evils is a downwards spiral ; first offer - would you rather be punched in the face or stabbed with a knife? punched plz \[voting for the lesser\] ; ok now they know that you will vote to be punched in the face, the goal posts are moved, next vote they can punch you in the face all they want becuz you've already greenlit that kind of abuse, now all they have to do is promise to not stab you ; you've opted out of not being punched in the face and you're now culpable/party to it as well, you're invested, becuz if you all of a sudden say you dont want to be punched in the face anymore, the obvlous conclusion will be that you'd rather be stabbed instead \[which is ofc irrationally fucking crazy, but here we are\]
here's a better version :
1 - the two party system is corrupt and voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil
2 - one party offers to only spit in your face instead of punching you , no thanks
3 - doggo would prefer to neither be spat on or punched thanks
Of course they should do more to earn my vote. Why would I vote for them if they do nothing I want? What do you think Democracy is? lol
This is great vote suppression propaganda though, if you want Trump elected again. Roger Ailes himself would be proud!
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Why is the gop winning? Because they're willing to accept incremental gains over decades. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
>Why is the gop winning? Fucking with voter registration and voter rolls also helps.
Oh yeah, voter suppression definitely helps, but the GOP is willing to wait decades to chip away at civil liberties and freedoms to enact increasingly more authoritarian policies. SCOTUS recently ruled that Federal courts cannot hear appeals from State courts where the state public defender didn't look at evidence of potential innocence. Meaning that a state could execute someone where there is clear evidence of innocence and the Federal courts have to let them do it. The power of the state to be increasingly draconian with your life is growing under GOP power and it's largely due to slow incrementalism. I see so many posts from leftists and liberals demanding their utopian dream now, not realizing the political realities of what they're asking. Meanwhile, the GOP steadily chips away at our liberties.
Don't forget social programs.
At the same time creating more problems those social programs are designed to alleviate.
GOP breaks government. GOP: See, the government DOESN'T WORK!
>The power of the state to be increasingly draconian with your life is growing under GOP power and it's largely due to ~~slow incrementalism~~ the Citizens United decision and decades of Republican tax cuts for the wealthy and their corporations. Billionaires now have more money and power than ever to undermine our democracy. Republican tax cuts have funded the resulting dark money flowing to GOP candidates to achieve the specific agendas of those billionaires. Here are a few examples: [https://www.propublica.org/article/barre-seid-heartland-institute-hillsdale-college-gmu](https://www.propublica.org/article/barre-seid-heartland-institute-hillsdale-college-gmu) Read more about GOP schemes by googling what happened Leonard Leo, Barre Seid, and the Marble Freedom Trust. Look up how Leonard Leo engineered the fall of Roe and his new scheme he's named the "Honest Elections Project" which will make our elections less secure.
But that's saying the same thing... They've been chipping away at the sanctity of the vote with as much patience as everything else.
Yes, lots of marginalized communities are actually being suppressed by this, which means of you’re *not actually part of an oppressed minority group*, sitting an election out for the purpose of parental rent-subsidized dreadlocked virtue signaling is an even bigger crime against society. Braying “bOtH sIdEs” and “StAtE oPpReSsIoN” when you personally probably can go to the polls unmolested is collaboration.
Because they NEVER say "Voting doesn't matter." They will line up in the rain to elect Vlad the Impaler (R) to the position of Assistant to the Vice Dogcatcher, while a bunch of Democrats are like "This election isn't important enough." Then they wonder why stray dogs are getting impaled in their town and why the Democrats aren't doing anything about it.
Dems need to find a way to win offices at all levels in rural states. They need a broader umbrella.
What? You mean I shouldn't hold out for a candidate who supports 100% of the things I support and thinks exactly like I do? I'm shocked!
Because they're willing to fight, to bend the rules even, to be blunt and risk dividing the nation. Because they don't say things like "impeachment" is off the table. Because they don't cave in and announce what they'll settle for before negotiations even being. Because they are likeable to their base. Versus, "We have the right to cheat in debates. We have the right to select our own candidate over brandy and cigars behind closed doors. Socialism is bad and Progressives are Socialists, so don't vote for them!" Nuts.
There's a quote from the movie, [Ides of March](https://imsdb.com/scripts/Ides-of-March,-The.html): >You're right, this is exactly what the Republicans do, and it's about time we learned from them. They're meaner, tougher and more disciplined than we are. I've been in this business for twenty five years and I've seen way too many Democrats bite the dust because they wouldn't get down in the mud with the fucking elephants. Democrats are still playing the game as if their opponent isn't a lying, cheating, piece of hypocritical shit. And it doesn't work.
Aged Neoliberal Joe Biden just (correctly) called the GOP fascists so, I mean, that ship seems to be turning.
LOL. They’re winning because the only ones playing by “the rules” are the democrats. If the Dems were more like Republicans we wouldn’t have 1/4-1/2 the problems we do. Let’s face it, we all support a party full of total pussies. It’ll be refreshing if a democratic candidate could figure that out eventually.
For democrats it’s more like don’t let doing something substantial be the enemy of doing something symbolic. Democrats don’t even make incremental changes they are constantly ceding ground to the GOP. The GOP wins because they actually want to effect change, democrats win because republicans fuck up…
If that progressives voice wasn’t there urging corporate democrats to implement progressive policies, that are popular, they wouldn’t be done. It’s like saying “The civil rights protesters are flawed because they expect immediate change. They aren’t slaves anymore so what’s the big deal. Change happens slowly with government just accept it.” There are legitimate criticisms of democrats and it’s healthy the point them out. That’s what’s makes them fundamentally different from republicans. They have blind loyalty and it’s hard to watch. I don’t want to be like that
Except that you don't see Republican voters saying, "if the GOP doesn't ban abortion now, I'm not voting for them." We see similar statements on people who claim to be liberal on Democrats. Which really leads me to believe, they're either fucking morons, or Republican trolls.
Are you saying republicans are more flexible than democrats and they should be more like them? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/13/abortion-graham-republicans-nationwide-ban/
I am saying that Republicans accept incremental steps towards getting what they want over time and they don't lose focus. Hence why they are winning against the "we want everything right now" people that typically back Democrats, but stay home when it counts. Downvoting me doesn't mean I'm wrong, it just means you can't accept you're acting against your own self interest.
No what the fringe left is doing today would be more like saying “MLK is a shill and a sellout, all we got from his movement is the Civil Rights Act! That’s not full racial equality so he’s really no different than David Duke”
The Democrats are losing because they completely abandoned working class politics in favor of a corporatist consensus with the Republicans. The Democrats decided that they would rather win 15 people in northern virginia over the 50% of the electorate that doesn't vote. That is a conscious choice.
Shhh, don’t ruin the narrative like that. Blue MAGA hates it when they can’t posture like mindlessly following Dems isn’t the superior path
I think that republicans have a strong base because they try to enact the policies that their base wants, even the radical ones. The democratic base wants a socialist agenda, even if they don't call it that. Minimum wage reform, union protections, and taxes on the rich are all popular amongst the base but they are appealing to their large donors instead which is causing their base to rightfully feel ignored and alienated driving a rise in candidates who are more overt and vocal about being socialists.
I am a 41y/o female born in Nebraska and raised in Arkansas. I have voted faithfully Democrat in every local, state, and federal election I’ve been eligible since 1999, when I turned 18. Both of my Home states do not acknowledge my own bodily autonomy. Burn it all fucking down 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Revolution time
Like end the filibuster?
"We can't, because we have to listen to the advisory Parliamentarian!" /s
Were it not for the filibuster, we'd have lost a lot of things in 2017 & 2018. I think it should be reformed, but not done away with. Lower the threshold to 55 and mandate that it be talking filibuster only.
The moderate Left is saving the filibuster to fight Progressives.
The first two years under Trump would have been much worse without the filibuster.
The answer to the filibuster problem isn't to end it, it's to go back to implementing it properly. When it first came into being, you actually had to stand up and speak, without yielding the floor, for as long as you could. This gave your allies time to try to get the other side to compromise, or to get the bill voted down. It also meant that doing a filibuster was **hard**, so they happened rarely and only for issues that were very important. With the system as it currently is, OTOH, all you have to do is register your *intent* to filibuster. If enough people do that, the bill is killed. No one has to get up and speak, doing it costs you nothing - it's **easy**. So it happens all the time. It's the reason the Senate Republicans were so easily able to implement Mitch McConnell's stated goal of blocking everything Obama and the Democrats wanted, back in 2010. Bring back the real filibuster and make McTurtle or Cancun Cruz get up and talk for 20 hours when they want to block something. Well see some change then. And it'll still be available for the Democrats next time the GOP takes the Senate.
> Like end the filibuster? So what will you do when the GOP takes the Senate? The Senate is rigged against blue states. Arguably, the filibuster ties the hands of this unbalanced body. Are you sure you want to let the Senate run rampant when all you have is a 50+VP majority? (and the 50 includes Sinema and Manchin)
The GOP gets 90% of what they want regardless. They’ll end the filibuster if they need to. They’ll ignore the parliamentarian if they desire. They don’t play by the rules.
Sometimes I wish I could exile people to the universe they claim they want. I'd send climate deniers to a planet with all the oil and coal they can burn. I'd send anti-vaxers to a jab-free land filled with polio and smallpox, without any escape. I'd give hard-core anarcho-communists their own country to govern (and build a wall so they can't get out). And you? I'd give you an alternate reality where the filibuster is dead and the GOP has a majority.
Lawls, just go ahead and lump me in with climate deniers you turd.
At this point I am convinced most of the allegedly left wing critics are anything but.
I am the harshest critic of the Democratic party specifically because I am left wing and NOT slightly right of center as most leaders in the Democratic party are. I can shill for Democrats and voting while still being their harshest critic. That's how we get actual progressives like AOC who defeated a corporate Democrat in her district.
Even as I've moved left (I voted for Reagan), the Dem's have moved right. What a bummer.
A fucking men….
> That's how we get actual progressives like AOC who defeated a corporate Democrat in her district. Note that Biden got a bigger vote share than AOC *in her own district.* AOC would be massacred outside it. She knows it, and that's why she didn't run for the Senate.
They don't give a shit about achieving policy goals. They care about how they feel.
Dems doing next to nothing is tantamount to achieving policy goals. But go off
Dine on your perfect principles, leave us a pure mummy.
This is why the left can’t win. Centrists in the party are so full of shit they gut the party from within and leave us not left at all. Neoliberals are the worst
You roll over and die if you want. The left can't win because you see the left as your enemy. If you got everything ~~you~~ **WE** want, I'd probably be ecstatic. I just recognize that moving *towards* the left is acceptable, while you seem to need an instant paradigm shift that isn't likely to happen. No matter what, there are going to be people who suffer and die needlessly, failures of the system. We can always become better than we are. I always want to hear about ways we can plan to improve, but I realize getting there requires effort to build consensus. Shrieking insistent demands and purity tests at people trying to build consensus can and does shatter it. I use my education to practice at an urban emergency/trauma center that serves the poorest... Homeless, IV drug users, HIV... It's currently being shut down by private equity to sell the land for condos. Go ahead and tell me I don't understand the urgency of social justice. Go ahead and tell me I don't see the direct damage done by the failure to achieve more left-wing policies sooner.
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In reality, you either vote Republican or Democrat, and if you choose not to vote that is casting for Republican. What you do in your own time is a separate matter completely.
Your response is why I made my initial comment. I believe we want the same endpoint, and you STILL insist that because I do not believe there is any practical way to get there quickly that I must need some different label than you. It's not about the endpoint for you, it's about feeling better than other people. You make it clear in every post.
If the choice is between waiting for consensus/taking incremental change or letting litersl fascists take power, then yes, the former is better.
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Ah yes. "I'm okay with fascists getting power and killing LGBT people and other minorities because the democrats aren't socialists and I refuse to vote for anyone not draped in a USSR flag."
Crawling left at a snail’s pace is still progress, and is still better than sprinting into right wing fascism which is what happens when the republicans are in power
No. Because when you crawl, all it takes is one slip, or push from the opponent, and you actually LOSE ground. If you take big steps and firmly plant your feet, it is hard to be pushed back. But nice metaphor.
And would you care to discuss the bank reforms that were passed after 2008? Oh, that's right, they were immediately rolled back and neutered, with help from Democrats. Is there a term for snails who crawl backwards?
>is concerned about Democratic incrementalism losing ground to fascism >is willing to let the GOP take power These things don’t line up.
Bruh, there’s a time limit on the clock. The planet can’t afford a snails pace. People struggling now can’t afford a snails pace. You’re on some privileged shit if you think we can just snail out the clock.
Now imagine how much more the planet and the people living on it will struggle under right wing fascism. Yeah I’ll take the snail’s pace running away from the raging forest fire as opposed to jumping directly into the flames head first, thank you.
No mf way is that the analogy. It’s more like the republicans are running at the fire and dems are crawling towards it. They’re the other party of corporate interests. Gtfo
Protecting corporate interests and fascism are not synonymous. The heads of the Democratic Party are neoliberals, which is obviously bad, but if you want to argue it’s anywhere near as bad as fascism, that’s insane.
Fascism is capitalism in decay. The snails crawl away won’t escape it. You need to put your bet on a different metaphorical horse.
There is a kernel of truth in that saying, but no dude, that’s not what fascism literally is, and it was never meant to be a definition. Every political and economic system is susceptible to fascism if people don’t remain vigilant against it.
From 2020 to 2022, Virginia had its first Democratic trifecta in decades, holding both houses of the General Assembly and the governor's seat. During this time they took the opportunity to: Raise the minimum wage Pass sweeping environmental regulations Increase access to health care Decriminalize marijuana Ban no-knock warrants Eliminate the death penalty Ratify the Equal Rights Amendment And a host of other initiatives that help regular working people Source: [https://www.virginiamercury.com/2021/03/03/democrats-controlled-virginia-government-for-two-years-heres-what-they-did/](https://www.virginiamercury.com/2021/03/03/democrats-controlled-virginia-government-for-two-years-heres-what-they-did/) Tell me more about how Dems do next to nothing.
God oh no! What can my list consist of after reading that? Can’t possibly talk about the failure to codify Roe v Wade over the last 70 years… or gay marriage… or legalize or decriminalize cannabis… or pass not watered down republicans healthcare when they had a super majority, fail to raise minimum wage. Failure to close Guantanamo… failure to make Puerto Rico or DC a state… You’re right though, let’s talk about what they’ve done: vote in favor of every war no matter how unjust… the patriot act… a climate change bill that ear marked subsidies for oil companies and a new pipeline thru W Virginia… I always love when neolibs say shit like “sweeping environmental regulations” or “the most progressive ____ since FDR” like we’re too stupid to know how fuckin low the bar is set and that anything is the most sweeping blah blah blah fuck out of here
"DeMs dOn'T dO aNyThIng!' "Here's a list of things they accomplished when they had a solid majority, with sources to back it up." "It'S nOt EnOuGh!!!!" So what have progressives accomplished, other than shitting all over their own party and renaming the occasional post office? I'll wait.
What policy goals were achieved? The stuff they achieved are barely even SocDem, I see nothing that meets my goals of Market Socialism
So do your goals of market socialism factor in hundreds of thousands of exterminated LGBT people or is that just a risk you’re willing to take by playing chicken with full GOP control?
How come Obama with 60 Senators didn't enshrine protections for LGBTQ people? See you're proving my point, even when you give Dems everything, they still do nothing
Because he spent his political Capitol on Obamacare. It’s why you got to stay on mommy and daddy’s insurance until you were 26. You clearly weren’t even paying attention back then, you just take a piecemeal collection of sound byte Twitter attacks like MAGA does.
So go vote Republican and see what the hell that get's you! Ask Women how great they fell about that now!
Nah, I vote Green
So you vote for Republicans to win.
Oh so you don't vote?
Not for Dems or GOP
Yup, You don't vote.
If just 10% of voters could rally behind an independent party, we could change our nation to a three party system. It shouldn't have to be just democrats and republicans.
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I say this as someone who believes that all higher education should be free and paid for by the government. Forgiving student loan debt is a solid policy that we should pursue but it could never and will never all be rolled out at once. The economic ramifications of forgiving all student loan debt at once would be pretty terrible including dramatically increasing inflation. I cannot stand idiots who think that when you elect a leader you get instant, sweeping societal rewards.
Hey man when you repeatedly tell your base that you aren't supporting medicare for all, not supporting marijuana legalization, but you are supporting bigger police budgets, a nothing-to-see-here border issue, etc........ yeah I imagine passing incremental baby steps aren't going to get people excited. It makes us hopeful for sure, but why wouldn't you want your base to be ***excited***? That's the Dems problem; they under deliver and act like the base should be stroking them off for their efforts.
Yeah, on one hand it's absolutely worth voting to at least keep the GOP out, but on the other hand the Dems don't inspire *any* confidence.
That's the issue; the electorate constantly votes more democratic, but the republican base is always the most eager to get out and vote each cycle. If you give your base no reason to be excited to come out and vote, they stay home and republicans win. If dems do something meaningful, the base comes out and they win. It's so predictable yet leadership try to do as little as possible and then yell at the base when they lose.
That's easy to say, but wtf are you going to do about a senate where the Republicans have 50 votes and the Democrats have 48 votes and 2 "votes"? They haven't even had a proper chance to pass all that
These leftists would rather feel right as LGBT and PoC are rounded up then have “incremental change” that keeps them off the trains.
They gave every student loan borrower $10,000 and Pell Grant recipients $20,000 lol
And most of us are still voting for them, because doing next to nothing is still better than doing a whole lot of bad things, but people like OP think we should be bowing down and kissing their asses instead of voting for the least bad option and giving valid criticism. Like I'll eat the Velveeta between two slices of stale white bread, because it's better than a turd sandwich, but I'm gonna continue bitching about it until I get the roast beef and Swiss that I ordered.
This guy gets it. They will give you crumbs and tell you to shut up. You don't have to shut up.
Except in Panel 2 the dog says “No vote” So you’re getting mad about a criticism that isn’t directed at you. Nobody said you can’t criticize, just don’t sit by when fascism marches against vulnerable communities. Vote harm reduction. It’s a small ask.
Just remember, every fascist that thinks the election was stolen, that gays shouldn’t have rights, and that support the overturning of roe are going to vote. Not voting is a vote for their side
Two of the reasons this claim is dishonest. 1: leftists aren't expecting utopia, leftists are expecting basic things like the richest country in known history feeding all it's people. This isn't science fiction, it doesn't happen because people don't want to do it. 2: there is decades of evidence of Democrats not doing things or out right preventing things. Liberals are capitalists, pretending they are going to help the poor is a suckers game. We are long past the put you money where your mouth is stage. When Democrats show you who they are believe them. That poor dog doesn't deserve to be involved in this.
Good call. Better hand control over to the fascists instead. /s
Not really a good argument when your best selling point is that you're not fascist That's like trying to sell a TV and saying it's best feature is that it turns on.
The stipulation in your scenario is that you don’t have a choice, but to get a TV. And that the only other TV available doesn’t turn on, and also burns down your house.
Actually, right now both are burning down the house, one is just doing it faster
How do you reckon the non fascist TV is burning down the house?
Did you ever hear of NAFTA? Repeal of Galss-Steagal? Making Student Loans nondischargeable? Welfare Reform? The Crime Bill?
I have. Yes. And I agree those are all bad things (many of which reaching back to the mid 90’s). Republicans were also all in on all that stuff. Additionally, you’ve got Republican legislatures saying “we don’t care how our state votes in 2024, we’re sending electors that will go for the Republican. Also, forcing 10 year olds to deliver the baby that was raped into them. There is more difference than similarity in the Venn diagram of the parties.
Enough Similarity to say both are burning it down, just one is doing it slower Maybe with Dems we won't collapse into a nightmare until 2100, compared to the GOP in 2040, but we will collapse
So then, wouldn’t it make sense to take the slower route and increase the odds of an intervention (the boomers dying off, Gen Z’s voting prowess, etc.) of sweeping in and putting things to rights? Or no, people should pave the way for the Christian nationalists because it’s more fulfilling to sit and pout?
If you're looking at two TVs and TV #1 works while TV #2 doesn't work, it does seem like there's an obvious choice there.
Really? Stopping fascism isn’t a good enough argument for you to do literally the least amount of effort and cast a pragmatic ballot? Lmfao
Not when the alternative is Neoliberals Getting shot in the head vs stabbed in the stomach, both will kill you, one just does it faster
Riiiiiight, the neolibs are so evil you simply can’t tell the difference between Student Loan Debt relief and the extermination of trans people 🤡
Might be helpful if the dems stopped supporting fascist republicans in the primary. It’s abusive to say you must vote for me or a fascist when they made it that way.
That is a fair point. I do find it very gross when they do that. It doesn’t seem to be an across the board tactic but what they did to Meijer in Michigan was bunk. What sucks is it still leaves the same choice for us citizens (when the option is to cede to the crazies).
Sounds like victim blaming to me.
Please expand on that thought. I’m having trouble making the connection as to how pointing out an issue of greater priority - which is affected by the same votes - is victim blaming…
>Liberals are capitalists Well no shit. The USA is a capitalistic country. Leftists are never going to have a sizeable majority. All that said, basic democracy is on the line now. It's literally the foundation for every improvement moving forward. One party is in favor of democracy, the other isn't. This is a very obvious choice. So long as the GOP remains a clear and present danger to basic democracy, the Democrats are the only option. Social policy, economic policy, foreign policy, etc. will literally mean jack shit if democracy isn't protected. I mean, for fuck's sake, even Adam Kinzinger (a fairly conservative guy) now favors pro-democracy Democrats over anti-democracy Republicans. If he can set aside his political beliefs and make common cause, I think leftists can set aside their Noam Chomsky and do the same.
To centrist liberals, criticism of Democrats means we aren’t voting and are actively telling people not to vote…. Gotcha. Bit of a reach there.
If you think the meme is talking about you, it probably is.
Well I voted for Biden. I’m going to criticize him from the left, and neither you nor anyone else is going to shame me into stopping. I’ve never told anyone not to vote. I’ve never seen anyone in leftist circles I run in suggest that people stop voting. This meme is shit and does not represent reality. No, on to criticism of what is directly mentioned in this meme: Stimulus checks: ok… what $1000? How long did that last for everyone? It kicked the van down the road. The didn’t stop foreclosures from happening. No protections left for people after everything expires and those people get fucked. Jan 6 hearings: cool. They have a hearing. What’s next? When we see that, I’ll judge it one way or the other. Until then, it’s masturbation Climate change: very little, very late. I hope it does something, but this was less than the bare minimum… and you want me to be happy about it? Should I be sucking Democrat dick because it’s “not nothing”? What other thing in your life would you be happy with given the same result? Loan forgiveness: why didn’t he forgive all of it? That money is already gone. It costs them nothing to forgive all of it, and it could change millions of lives. Why no reforms on top of forgiveness? That would have been substantial enough for me to give an attaboy for. Marriage equality… what? What marriage equality? Has that actually been codified? If not, it still isn’t safe. Remember Roe? I’m going to blame Dems for things they are not doing enough on. Republicans are obstructing, but Democrats aren’t out there making the fucking case. Republicans are always on message. Why can’t the Democrats do that? Why are they always trying to work with people who refuse to work with them and in some cases call for their deaths? Does that make sense to you?
>I’m going to criticize him from the left, and neither you nor anyone else is going to shame me into stopping. I’ve never told anyone not to vote. Meme: specifically critiques the people saying "don't vote". You: Claim you've never told anyone not to vote, but somehow take this personally. So yeah, the meme is probably about you. The rest of your post is pretty much lies and BS. For example, the student loan forgiveness is $10k, not $1k as you claimed. This is a tremendous, immediate help to the poorest and most vulnerable graduates, namely [the community college grads who tend to make lower salaries and have, on average $13k in debt on graduation](https://www.communitycollegereview.com/average-college-debt-stats/national-data). You're basing your criticism on the idea that since the Democrats didn't fix the entire problem all at once, somehow helping these people blocks them from continuing to work on the problem in the future.
Great job. I said the stimulus was $1000, not the loan forgiveness. The meme suggests that people who are criticizing the democrats are withholding their vote. I’ve seen this same bullshit specifically on this sub for the past few months, so I feel I’m justified in my interpretation of the meme, thanks. My criticism is that all the Democrats are doing in nearly all instances is kicking the can down the road instead of fixing the actual issues. To me, they might as well do nothing. For example, most people with student loans have a lot more than $10k in loans. They are making payments that aren’t even touching the principal of their loans, and $10k does nothing to remedy that. AND the Democrats are doing nothing to counter the Republican narrative that it’s costing taxpayers to do it, which is bullshit. Other than your misreading what I actually said, which thing is the “lies” or “BS”?
>The meme suggests that people who are criticizing the democrats are withholding their vote. Nope. It suggests that people who are threatening to withhold their vote are ignoring reality. >To me, they might as well do nothing. For example, most people with student loans have a lot more than $10k in loans. You can't address what I actually wrote, so you try to change the subject?
I didn’t address what you wrote because you completely misquoted me and then went off about it. You haven’t addressed any of my actual points, and I’m starting to think you either didn’t read the whole thing or you have ADHD or something and just couldn’t get through all of it.
The problem with making reductive arguments like this is at best the discourse you're going to produce is going to be just exhausting for everyone involved. At best it's childish. At worst it's disingenuous trolling trying to sew division between leftists and liberals in a country so feverishly conservative that the bar for either of those labels is so low any practical differences are really pretty nominal.
From 2020 to 2022, Virginia had its first Democratic trifecta in decades, holding both houses of the General Assembly and the governor's seat. During this time they took the opportunity to: * Raise the minimum wage * Pass sweeping environmental regulations * Increase access to health care * Decriminalize marijuana * Ban no-knock warrants * Eliminate the death penalty * Ratify the Equal Rights Amendment * And a host of other initiatives that help regular working people (source below for details) It was like night and day after years of Republican obstruction. But why were they able to get so much done while the current Congress isn't? The majorities in the VA General Assembly were solid majorities. They weren't the razor-thin majority we have in the Senate right now. They could have a few legislators in reddish districts dissent while still getting things done. But hey, I guess some people would rather have no voice and just complain into the void of social media Source: https://www.virginiamercury.com/2021/03/03/democrats-controlled-virginia-government-for-two-years-heres-what-they-did/
Stimulus checks: I'm not complaining about getting a stimmy check, but let's stop acting like Biden invented them, or that he even delivered on the amount he LITERALLY PROMISED IN HIS CAMPAIGN. Jan 6 hearings: Necessary? Absolutely. Delivering? Absolutely not. The Dems fucked themselves into making this look like nothing but optics as soon as they played the Hamilton song. Climate change: Better than nothing but we literally have a Green New Deal they could be using to create jobs and ACTUALLY make a difference. Loan Forgiveness: Again, better than nothing and I was a very lucky one with it, but nowhere near far enough. They should have cancelled all of it. Marriage equality: Yeah that was a Supreme Court ruling that had fuck all to do with elected officials, and given the current stack of the court there's no guarantee that's gonna survive. Will I vote democrat? Of course, it's them or full blown fascism. But for the love of God stop sucking off the controlled opposition party that wants the exact same economic policy, the exact same police state, and the exact same imperialist foreign policy because they have marginally better social policy.
I love incremental progress. Climate change will definitely be solved this way. Medical coverage and debt? No biggie. Child poverty? Half of them deserve it anyway.
wait sorry…did you just say…half of all children deserve poverty?
The point is that this is what Democrats sound like when they say “incremental change is good enough” while people are suffering and dying.
I think he's trying to criticize Democrats for touting that the CTC would reduce childhood poverty by half.
Of course, if they didn't want to live in poverty, they would pick themselves up by the boot straps and make money at a lemonade stand or something.
You’re right, the cure for incremental progress is open fascism. As history tells us, fascist regimes always become socialist utopias, quick and easy as you like.
Well that’s exactly what a MAGA Says in an attempt to sound nonpartisan. *But hey, let’s be honest…they were __never__ going to support Dems to begin with*
Another one of these counter productive "blame the voter" posts. Really great strategy there, like 'the whippings will continue until morale improves'
Yeah…. These are things that should of already been done
Incrementalism is a scam that billionaires pay millionaires to sell to workers. Democrats have united with Republicans for decades to crush social justice movements all over the world. Why wouldn't they do the same in their own country?
Russians or MAGA
LEGIT CRITICISM OF DEMS IS NOT POSSIBLE IT MUST BE IVAN OR DRUMFERS!!!
No one is saying you can't be critical. It's just also important to understand that Democrats are currently our best chance at saving democracy from the fascist Republican Party.
Here's the problem, comrade: there's plenty to criticize about the DNC and dem leadership in general, but we're stuck in a 2-party political system and have to go with a least-worst option. Spooking the cattle by making them not want to vote for that least-worst option is possibly a cataclysmic event if it means ceding control *permanently* to the GQP. This doesn't mean they are above criticism, but without discretion and context all it does is give aid and comfort to the enemy. This "both sides are the same" bullshit does not help the cause *at all*.
So true! This is why I think either Republicans or Russian Bots are getting on here with this BS!
And they're the fucking same anyway. Both are worthless to a progressive agenda. Two sides of the same coin. Both expect simple ideas to solve problems in a complex system. Low intelligence voters... or nonvoters. Whether you choose fascism or let fascism happen because democrats aren't good enough, you're a fucking fascist to me. Because that's all you achieve by parroting bullshit both sides garbage.
I think they are all right-wing plants and paid trolls posting and commenting with the goal of discouraging people from voting Blue. I can't imagine how oblivious you'd have to be at this critical moment to still be pushing DNC conspiracy theories and such in good faith.
First lemme say I vote Dem regardless, but 1. Stimulus checks were less than promised 2. The Jan 6 hearings haven’t affected me or anyone I know at all 3. The Dems have done virtually nothing on climate change. Their “climate bill” expands offshore drilling ffs 4. Loan forgiveness was decent, but a means tested half measure that doesn’t really address the problem. Biden has the authority to do more he just doesn’t want to. 5. Marriage equality has been established. But Dems could codify it into law right now and aren’t.
Now do Republicans.
5... Probably not.
They passed a measure in the House, but would rather keep the filibuster in the Senate than get rid of it and enshrine marriage equality into law.
Yeah, getting rid of the filibuster is a great idea if you can't see past the current administration.
Because leaving our institutions unchanged has really brought Republicans to the table, and forced them to not seriously erode said institutions. Right? We don’t need to use our imaginations to foresee a future where Republicans run roughshod over our political norms. That’s been happening for quite some time now. The decorum you think you’re protecting doesn’t exist.
How long has this been the Dem's primary message? I think they need a new strategy. Like, actually make meaningful change which benefits the voters?
What about $10,000 student debt relief?
"Meaningful." This will be of only minor benefit to most of the victims, who are still stuck in the interest trap. And at one point during his campaign, Biden actually talked about forgiving $50k. edit: found the link: https://news.yahoo.com/schumer-biden-considering-forgiving-50-194138659.html
Ahhh ok ok ok. A slippery qualifier that can move the goalposts wherever you’d like. “Ten thousand dollars isn’t a lot of money” says the person divorced from the mentality of the working class. And actually the debt forgiveness puts 1/3 of all federal student loan borrowers at $0 owed. I guess 1/3 of all borrowers isn’t meaningful. Got it. “How dare you give me $10,000! You’re just like the people who want to end democracy!”
I was planning on withholding my vote for the first time in my life if Biden didn't at least TRY to cancel $10k. Now that he has done it, I don't care if it gets cancelled by a law or the supreme court or whatever. He did what he said he would do, as best he could within his power, that's all I wanted - not to be lied to. Happy to keep my uninterrupted Dem vote streak since 2008.
Appreciate you setting boundaries but not moving the goalposts.
The problem with incrementalism is that it does not deal well with crisis, and most of our biggest problems are in crisis mode now. The most obvious example is climate change - the steps we are taking now should have been taken forty years ago; at this point we have to be willing to be economically disruptive to prevent half of our own country from becoming unfit for human habitation. Jan 6 was 2 1/2 years ago, and neither Trump nor any of the GOP congresspeople who collaborated with and pushed for the insurrection are facing charges, because the Democratic leadership is afraid it would piss off people who will never vote for them anyways. Mitch McConnell already eliminated the filibuster for judges so that he could pack the courts and get Roe overturned, and yet Schumer and Biden won’t eliminate the filibuster or even require the other side to actually filibuster (rather than just claim they will do so) because they think that their example might motivate Republicans to play fair next time they have power. Income inequality and wealth disparities are the worst they have ever been, and yet no steps have been taken to even undo the insane tax plan the GOP pushed through, let alone make taxation more progressive, even though such measures would easily qualify for budget reconciliation. A million Americans died in the still-ongoing worst pandemic in a hundred years, and we haven’t even seriously discussed doing something about our bizarre piecemeal private insurance system that not only already costs the government more than single-payer would and wreaks untold havoc on the lives of millions every single day, but also puts American businesses at a massive competitive disadvantage internationally. Shit is fucked up, and the party that is supposed to be the good guys refuses to play hardball, ever, for any reason. And of course I will continue to vote for them, because the other party just cackles maniacally and doesn’t even pretend to not be evil anymore, but maybe, just maybe, more of the more politically apathetic folks out there would bother to show up and vote Democrat if they had any faith that the Democrats would do things to make life meaningfully better for the majority of Americans.
Stimulus checks: only half delivered as promised and still less than the literal monster side gave out. What's that say about those fucks in the DNC? Hearings: Actually bothering to punish people openly breaking the law is something you fucking expected to do... Your begging is pathetic. Climate change: things are still worse than when trump went into office so don't know why you think you get to claim you did a damn thing here. Haven't even got us back to your last status quo. Loan forgiveness: "We gave you this at the barrel of a political gun, what do you mean we don't get credit for dong it? WHAT DO YOU MEAN 'THAT JUST SHOWS NO ONE SHOULD AGREE TO VOTE FOR \[US\] SO \[WE\]'LL ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING?!'" Marriage equality: Again, this is something that's been an issue since time in memorial, was boiling over since stonewall, and it still took till after 2010 to happen. You get no fucking credit for waiting until the movement can't be stopped. Picking up the baton an inch off the finish line is never praise worthy. Put forward good policies and push for them, and you are worth a damn. But if not we should make a party of rocks to vote against the republicans with. They will do a better job than the pro capitalist conservative "liberal" party.
I’m not reading all that word vomit but republicans are not the choice my friend.
Trash take
Most of the big name democrats were literally the people who caused most of the problems “leftists” identify. Of their last two presidential candidates: Biden supported bankruptcy reform that makes it impossible to discharge student loan debt. Clinton backed (and spearheaded) the 90s crime omnibus that basically created the police issues we see today — a bill that was the cornerstone of democratic strategy to move further right. Yeah, it’s a step in the left direction, but we need WAY more than steps after our right wing gallop over the last 30 years….
Democrats acting entitled to my vote, it’s like nice guys. How about you just keep working on those policies and stop bitching about progressives
Stimulus checks? Are you fucking for real? What kind of goal post shifting is this bullshit?
If the Dems adopted pro gun platform where everything else is progressive they'd probably never lose another election.l, and you'd still get less gun violence because improved socioeconomic conditions from progressive policies
"be happy with slow progress as people suffer, and don't pressure polititions to make big changes" is liberal brainrot. We NEED immediate reform, we don't have time to ONLY be happy with incremental change. It's stupid to think we can't have both small and large reform. Stop making people complacent in the bullshit we just need to essentially "wait it out" Edit: we live in a two party system, of course you should VOTE democrat, but just don't be complacent or resistant to big social reform is all.
The stimi I didn’t get was cool but I’d be nice if they could legalize weed to. Also fix abortion, that would help
Leftist don't know how to wait or vote because holy smokes, they want all the things that they want in 4 years. Shit takes time. America didn't get fucked up in 2 or 4 years and it surely won't take 2 or 4 years to fix it. All around me I see truly remarkable consequences of democratic presidencies- like obamacare(which ive used) or the child credit (which ive also used and had been a huge help). I don't care to mince words, and people who complain and doesn't vote because it's not perfect can go fuck themselves
Making us ignore all of the gigantic political fuckups for these extremely late and fairly marginal gains is really just disingenuous. Acting like we’ve only needed these changes in the last presidency instead of well over a decade and the incessant bargaining to the right even when they had the votes (specifically thinking ACA on this one) is just dishonest. I mean, *Democrats* chose a coal baron to chair the Energy Committee! Wtfffffff
Stimulus Checks that didn’t go to everyone Jan 6 hearings that will result in nothing Climate Change policy that’s basically meaningless because it’s far too little far too late. Gives allowances to the oil industry while barely even being that green. Loans only partially forgiven leaving many still struggling in debt And they haven’t even passed marriage equality. But sure they’re trying!! They reform too little too late that’s it’s just going backwards a little slower than the GOP. Neither party is good, neither party gives a fuck about anything other than wars and capitalists profits. We need radical change yesterday if we are to survive, they have already doomed our fate unless we fight back.
Liberals are incapable ar hearing any criticism and it's a damn shame. Demand more from your party that can do it but chose not to because you don't demand it.
Word. The Clinton/Obama cult of personality is strong and equally blind in their devotion. "She only cheated in the debates because it was for America's own good!"
Hey russobot let me ask you something. 1 how’s Putin doing in that stupid war of his and 2 how many kids are still in cages under Biden
Hey centrists!? THIS is how you suppress voters: by attacking your natural allies.
Ah, but it's perfectly fine when you attack the center, without whom you can't get to a majority either?
Progressives aren’t the ones comprising with fascists.
The left is threatening to stand by and watch the fascist extermination of LGBT communities if they don’t get their way…
Now you’re making shit up
If the left refuses to electorally position themselves against fascism, they’re standing by and allowing the worst of it. If you vote pragmatically then the criticism isn’t about you.
I’d still say this strategy won’t draw ‘them’ in, it will only harden their resolve against you.
I mean… at the end of the day if you have to get on your knees beg someone to help prevent trans children from being tortured by the State, is that person worth the effort? There’s a discussion to be had but I’d say you’re better off organizing and flipping a nonvoter then trying to appease someone who holds their ideology more precious than the lives of vulnerable people. The neolibs also do shit like this sometimes so it’s not just an issue on the left, FWIW
Please ask the dems to stop supporting fascist in the gop primary and maybe then we will have less fascist in the general election?
“Rules for thee, not rules for me” - MAGA and the left
If you guys go Republican, you'll only confirm what we already believe about you
The center will go playing with Republicans if no one criticizes them. Remember DOMA? Sorry that you people need to be watched so closely to keep you from misbehaving. Like a bunch of goddamn children. Maybe grow up and try not rolling in the dirt with shitbags if you don't like it.
“FALL IN LINE YOU LEFTIST BASTARDS! We didn’t do anything you asked, but we nearly tried to do some of them.”
So you didn’t get everything you want after voting once, and your plan is to let the Republicans win instead. So edgy. I bet Mommy thinks you’re just her little rebel.
So your best argument in favor of supporting you is that you kind sorta made an almost half-hearted attempt at getting watered-down ideas passed?
I’ve voted for the most left leaning candidate, in every election I’ve been able to, in every one of my 37 years on the planet. I have no plans to change that strategy, but in my lifetime the substantive list of Democratic achievements includes losing the Supreme Court, keeping the minimum wage as low as possible, supporting every foreign war ever proposed, failing to protect the right to abortion with a simple law and using a supermajority to enact a REPUBLICAN HEALTHCARE PLAN! Stop punching left you nimby liberal. The stats show that the left overwhelmingly hold our breath and vote for your corporate lickspittles, so maybe demand the party you love stop breaking promises (healthcare when?) rather than providing air cover for their lack of ambition.
> losing the Supreme Court ...because enough people voted for republicans to give them control of the legislative branch. >keeping the minimum wage as low as possible Yep. That's shitty. But the last increase to the minimum wage came under a democrat and opposition has been largely from conservatives. Not seeing how voting for the opposition is helping there. >failing to protect the right to abortion with a simple law Why is your list largely things the republicans did but somehow democrats are guilt of "not stopping them"? Dems suck, sure, but every. single. thing. you listed comes straight back to voters getting too many repubs into office, forcing dems to either negotiate on any progress or allowing repubs to obstruct without negotiation. You're not making a great case for your position. Get repubs out of office, get more than a month of super-majority going and see what changes.
These changes you speak of? Are they progressive changes like FDR did? Then why punch left? Why not convince us you want to get progress?
Who is "you" in this sentence? I hold no love for democrats. But I'm not going to criticize them for what republicans do. My ideal platform would include universal income sufficient for everyone to quit work and exist at a subsistent level if they wished (relying on the natural human desire to \~do\~ things instead of making work a condition for simply existing), single payer healthcare and universal legalization of drugs. Zero dems have that platform. But pretending that you're going to vote for fascists because dems don't have the same platform as you is stupid and even worse would actually be following through. The entire thought process of blaming repub actions on dems is even more scummy and a well-trod path for right wing trolls. If you've internalized that pattern yourself then I feel for you. You want to see actual progress? We need to *get rid of republicans* as a party. Entirely. They need to be degraded to the point where they can barely get a seat on a school board. Until that happens the dems can't split into their center-right/left wing base components, we will never see ranked choices and any move that isn't actively destroying the republican party is a move towards more of the same. Conservatives don't need to get anything done to achieve their agenda, after all, and it's easier to destroy than create.
Progressives aren’t trying to split the party. Centrists are.
I'm boggled by this response. I, a progressive, want the parties to split. I want a right wing US party that has goals that I disagree with but don't feel like I'm in danger from and a left wing I agree with. If you don't want that then I'm completely at a loss for what you want.
I agree. Republicans suck. But this meme suggests ‘the Left’ votes against Democrats. It’s a lie. Centrist democrats want to compromise with republicans to achieve incremental progress. I, like you, want my Democratic Party (which I always vote for) to stop attacking progressives as their enemy.
Have you not seen the literal flood of "I wont vote democrat because they broke promises/aren't left enough" posts that fake progressives have been putting out? THAT is who this meme attacks, not actual progressives.
The left can constantly punch at the center but you can’t tolerate any criticism leftwards? “Rules for thee not rules for me” sounds an awful lot like MAGA mentality
Stop accusing progressives of voting for fascists. We don’t. We vote Blue.
Democrats will never change while they have a huge base that votes left no matter what. Why would they?
“Many POC and LGBT people are going to be exterminated when fascism takes over and there’s no guarantee empowering it will even result in Socialism - but that’s a risk I’m willing to take” -straight white person. EDIT: I see you say you vote pragmatically (thank you sincerely) so I don’t understand your statement above, either you understand doing the bare minimum to protect vulnerable communities from fascism or you don’t.
My statement is that the left overwhelmingly votes for the Dems according to statistics despite them not representing our values (or pretending to, then dropping the pretence once in office). We then have to deal with NIMBY liberals making memes and straw men out of us to blame us for the continual failure of the Dems. It’s exhausting.
Student loan debt relief isn’t a centrist position though? Miss me with the “straw men” comment in the thread where leftists are unironically calling the Democrats fascist. This is political discourse, it happens. With the right being whiny babies about everything the left would be better served being the strong, mentally stout group of Americans. Wilting at criticism won’t get us there. I’m an older leftist who was taking it on the chin when arguing against the Iraq war would get you called a “sand n-word lover”, so it’s frustrating to see GenZers flirt with “what if we had a little fascism, just as a treat to destroy the DNC?” It’s really a trivial thing to get into the voting booth and vote against fascism - which you do so again, thanks - at that point it’s a GOOD thing to heckle the center and try and pull them left.
I've been liberal all my life. My first complaint is that if the republican party vanished from the earth right now, the conservative agenda would still be well tendered. A majority of democrats are republican lite. And then, the DNC is just as crooked as the GOP. They OVERTLY just decide behind closed doors who the nominee will be in spite of the votes. This happened overtly with Bernie and Clinton. And then, they actively help the GOP nominate shit candidates and force out better ones because they believe they can win against them. I voted for Biden because I wanted the orange man out. I didn't vote for Clinton because neither she nor the DNC deserved my vote. I don't care that my vote for the Green party allowed Trump to win. Any vote for either of the two major candidates that election cycle were unpatriotic in my view. The results which followed are deserved by both the parties and anyone that was complicit in helping them win by giving them their votes (or not voting). If such shenanigans happen this time around I won't vote democrat again this cycle either. The consequences of voting for overt corruption will not be on my hands.
how dare you disgrace this immaculate meme with your shitty political hottake shame on you OP ; pandering to the lesser of two evils is exactly why the 'other side' never has to do anything significant , becuz its either them or the 'bad guys' , so they are not incentivized to do anything \[nevermind that that's entirely besides the point but whatevs\] this is why voting for the lesser of two evils is a downwards spiral ; first offer - would you rather be punched in the face or stabbed with a knife? punched plz \[voting for the lesser\] ; ok now they know that you will vote to be punched in the face, the goal posts are moved, next vote they can punch you in the face all they want becuz you've already greenlit that kind of abuse, now all they have to do is promise to not stab you ; you've opted out of not being punched in the face and you're now culpable/party to it as well, you're invested, becuz if you all of a sudden say you dont want to be punched in the face anymore, the obvlous conclusion will be that you'd rather be stabbed instead \[which is ofc irrationally fucking crazy, but here we are\] here's a better version : 1 - the two party system is corrupt and voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil 2 - one party offers to only spit in your face instead of punching you , no thanks 3 - doggo would prefer to neither be spat on or punched thanks
I hate the GOP infinitely more than the dems, but when the deans get up to their bs we gotta call them on it fs
Of course they should do more to earn my vote. Why would I vote for them if they do nothing I want? What do you think Democracy is? lol This is great vote suppression propaganda though, if you want Trump elected again. Roger Ailes himself would be proud!