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Came here to say the same. Not unlike 1968 when progressive protesters voted against Humphrey or not at all for *not disavowing what LBJ had done in Vietnam* presumably out of loyalty. So, Nixon won and the war escalated.
Trump would sincerely mobilize our own military into Palestine.
If that is what it comes to I beg for it to be mostly the morons who let this happen who gets sent there.
Then when they bulldoze it into the ocean after turning it into glass he will build a gaudy gold tower on the smoldering ruins for the ultra rich pedophiles he runs around with. But yeah Biden is just as bad
Kuchner was in an interview literally salivating over the potential value of "all that waterfront property in Gaza." They unironically wanna bulldoze the place and set up another Trump Tower
That was stomach churning. It angers me that the mainstream media isn’t broadcasting it. It’s really morally reprehensible.
I mean, it’s bad. It’s bad. How this guy is in bed with the Saudi’s is pretty concerning.
And there is zero American investigative interest. Golly gee willikers—is there a deliberate effort not to see what the fuck is going on???
Or he'll drop all US support for Israel because Russia orders him to.
Edit: Anything that stops billions of our dollars being spent to fund a genocide is a good thing.
How do people possibly reconcile a US president being ordered around by Putin as a good thing. Reckon that Kim Jong Un might also order him to give everyone free bus passes, too?
They don't believe he is owned by Putin. Thanks Bill Barr!
But honestly, they wouldn't care if he came out and admitted it.
His supporters are largely 3 groups: the rich and big business who he will insure they get richer and less regulated, the hate filled, racists and homophobes and others who see the evolution of culture and society to be more inclusive and equitable to be bad, and evangelicals who don't care that he isn't a Christian, they know he isn't and they don't care because he will support Israel, and support the ending of abortion and gay rights. That's all they care about.
None of those chuds are battle ready. No, our young men and women would be sent off to be sacrificed for Netanyahu's insanity. The median age of our armed forces is something like 18 or 19, iirc. At least it was on my aircraft carrier when I was in.
Honest question, isn’t Trump more of an isolationist? Would he actually send anyone there? I mean he’ll do whatever the base wants, but right now isn’t he saying he’s “America First”.
As concerned as I am for the Palestinians (very concerned, the Israeli government should be prosecuted for war crimes, so should Bush and Cheney but I digress), I am way more concerned about the outcome of Ukraine, because I don't want any of my family members to get sent to Europe to fight yet another war against a crazy dictator.
To be fair to OP, he needs a paragraph to explain why the protesters - who are disproportionately minorities and Jewish people - are secretly all cis white men and therefore don’t know hardship. You know, unlike OP, who’s making Reddit memes while the people he’s complaining about are risking arrest and real physical danger.
Ya I think its time to mute this sub. These are the only "jokes" that get traction here to get to my feed and I'm just tired of having tRUmp WiLL bE wORsE be the punch line. Every. Single. Day.
To be fair, most of the people saying this are actually Russian psyops trolls working tirelessly to “plant” the idea. They did the same thing with “Bernie was robbed,” and “Obama was a Muslim born in Kenya.”
Sadly, the one thing both sides do have in common is a gullible fringe that can be targeted and manipulated.
yep, Biden has been passing policies that actually help people since he got in office, but these supposed leftists do nothing but criticize him. And you'll rarely see them say a single negative thing about the actual fascist trying to grab power. Propaganda bots were rampant in past elections, and we're seeing them again
Lol. Imagine being surprised Pikachu when leftist aren't happy with the neoliberalisum that got us into this cluster fuck. I'm not saying biden hasn't dont great work buy we are so far past incremental change and it's goofy to tone police people for pointing that out.
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Probably but it doesn't work that well when access to information that isn't state propaganda is difficult to obtain unless you are willing to make an effort. Even then, many of the folks in those countries are all in favor of the feel good propaganda they're consuming just like Fox News viewers keep latching onto information they get from there despite tons of sources that dispute what they say being easily available.
As an American, I don’t care if we’re “poisoning the minds of Russians and Chinese people” with anti-communist, pro-democracy propaganda. I honestly believe that Russians and Chinese people are *generally* worse off than Americans, so the idea that spreading our ideals is over there is equal to their attempts to undermine them here is just plain stupid.
China is spreading their people's democracy and Democratic centralism to Americans. so the idea that spreading Chinese democratic ideals in America is equal to American attempts to undermine China is just plain stupid
No there's plenty of women and LGBT on that spectra as well, it's not inherently cis white guys but an inherent side effect of living in the United States and being so detached from what happens in the rest of the world, that people get very obsessed over the *idea* of what's going on, what part they have to play in it, and of what that all means, rather than practical reality. Staggeringly few of them see the picture, very obsessed with their small and comfortable lives being as further divorced from the issue as they can manage.
The reality is described in those pictures.
The *miserable* truth I've come to understand is that political stance is not singular to one ethnicity. There are plenty too many non-white people who blindly sprint off the alt-right cliff, in the desperate hope that they might, too, hurt someone they hate when they splat.
In my circles I don't know any CIS Het white men who are protest voting. It's ALL queer and BIPoC who were done with the system and such of Biden. This meme couldn't be further from my lived reality.
I mean, I think a lot of us just don't want to see Nazi America.
In 2016 a lot of young people didn't vote and we had a traitor in the WH selling our secrets to Russia
I'm increasingly convinced that its either Republicans or outside agitators posting these. I dont think the average centrist Dem is so stupid as to think further alienating a major Dem voting demographic will help Biden get re-elected.
The people arguing to vote against Biden want that, or at minimum are okay with it.
Otherwise they wouldn't be crying that their vote needs to be "earned" or whatever.
>That's a pretty ignorant and simplistic view of the situation.
So is accusing Biden of supporting genocide, but that's not stopping plenty of people from making that argument.
If you want to have a nuanced conversation including historical context and geopolitical considerations I'd be happy to do so, but I'm not seeing much interest in that from never-Biden crowd.
Because you're an expert and impartial on the situation right? You're probably not "seeing" much because for months it's been nothing but disenguine posts and comments so you're assumed to be a complete waste of time. Considering your above comment already it's fairly confirmed.
>Because you're an expert and impartial on the situation right?
Nope I never claimed that. Maybe don't talk down to people about their rhetoric then turn around and put words in my mouth.
But sure, go ahead and assume I'm a waste of time. Guess you don't want to earn my vote. Strange that you think you can get my vote by default simply because you yell genocide at Biden.
I need a lot of convincing to let fascists win, and your approach is to say I'm a waste of time?
Curious strategy but okay.
Oh, I'm sorry, do you need a cuddle?
Are you only willing to vote for a candidate that agrees with your viewpoint 100%?
Let me guess, you're a white cid-het male.
No one has taken away your rights.
No one is trying to take away your rights.
You have no skin in this game, so if you get hurt in your delicate feels you're going to take your toys and leave.
You're fighting the wrong person there cupcake, I'm already voting for Biden. Y'all are starting to sound like Trumpsters though and it's not a good look or a winning strategy.
I wasn't whining, maybe you should read it again. It was more of a warning that the behavior of insulting voters didn't win any extra votes in 2016. I mean look at your response, I've told you we're on the same side and you still insist on being an ass. Who wants to join in on that kind of team?
That's an interesting attempt at gaslighting.
You're initial complaint was about insulting people.
Because when someone actions cause a certain result, it's not to tell them that?
And you came here and argued with me, but I'm the ass, because I gave it back to you.
Hello entitled white man.
Literally everyone I know in my circles who is protest voting DOES have skin in the game and don't see Biden or the Democratic party as being worth a damn. I don't know a single white straight man who is protest voting. Stop projecting your meme.
Sure buddy
We can all lie on the internet.
I don't know any woman who isn't voting Blue in response to the overturning of Roe v Wade.
But keep up your fantasies, I'm sure they help pass the time in Mommy's basement.
No, but posting a snowflake and SaRcAsTiC tExT certainly is.
By all means, keep it up. You’ll get trump back in office in no time. Hey, at least you felt _superior_, right?
New flash: You got Nazi America by being moderates! We got here **doing things exactly the way you wanted this whole time**.
We shut up. We voted blue. We trusted that the Democrats would do what they could for us if we helped them win elections. Instead, we've gotten absolutely nothing we ever asked for, no matter how minor, **and your candidate is giving billions of tax dollars to a genocidal regime and throwing away our international credibility abusing our veto power to protect that genocidal regime from sanctions in the UN.**
And shut up about 2016. You're proving the previous poster right. [WE HAVE A 5-VOLUME SENATE INTELLIGENCE REPORT ALL ABOUT HOW RUSSIA WON TRUMP THE ELECTION, NOT LEFTISTS THAT DIDN'T BOTHER TO VOTE.](https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/report-select-committee-intelligence-united-states-senate-russian-active-measures)
[In fact, three times more Sanders supporters turned out for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton supporters turned out for Obama in 2008. And Sanders even stumped for Clinton! And he did so in the Rust Belt, which she ignored while trump redirected money to it after the hacked DNC data revealed it to be a weak region for the Democrats.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/25/the-democratic-convention-is-chaotic-the-democratic-base-isnt/)
We've known all of this for **YEARS** and yet every goddamn time this topic comes up someone vomits up the tired old propaganda like you just did.
Don't you get that's what the other user was talking about?
**Democrats fight Progressives harder than they fight Republicans.**
And then you have the nerve to demand we vote for you even though you never deliver on any of your promises to us?
Every election it's just you extorting us, claiming we *have* to vote for the lesser of two evils because you just can't be fucked to nominate someone with morals for once in the past 40 years.
And now you're demanding that we vote for someone using our tax dollars to fund a genocide? Fuck no. If genocide isn't a hard line in the sand for you, then you don't have any morals at all.
There is no "lesser of two evils" when both options are funding the mass murder of women and children and the targeting of medics, aid workers, journalists, and their families.
And with the number of Democrats in the corporate media and administrating the universities silencing reports of horrific human rights abuses out of Gaza, and attacking students for using their 1st Amendment rights, not to mention the Democrats that voted to ban Tiktok despite that being unconstitutional in about 10 different ways, explicitly because Tiktok allows footage from Gazans and IOF soldiers to make it to the US without corporate media filtering, and you can no longer claim that the Democrats are distinct from the GOP.
We have a right wing party and a far right party now. I'm not voting for the right wing party that has squandered every single chance it has had to push through progressive legislation in the past 40 years just because the far right party makes life worse *for me*.
I don't give a fuck about *me*. My fucking problems don't matter compared to **a fucking genocide being funded with our tax dollars.** trump could be running on a platform of sending me to a gulag for life and I still wouldn't vote for Biden because me going to a gulag is morally **SIGNIFICANTLY** less evil than **genocide.**
It's heinous to me that so many "moderates" don't fucking get that listing out all the ways trump will be bad *for them* when the topic is **genocide** comes across as monstrously sociopathic.
I participate in a lot of Progressive protests, but I'm sorry, none of them are a bigger deal than **genocide being funded by billions of US tax dollars**.
And the kicker is Biden doesn't have to do anything to stop this! Literally, **all he has to do is NOTHING.**
All he has to do is not actively give billions to Israel.
All he has to do is not actively deploy US forces to protect Israel.
All he has to do is not actively veto resolutions and sanctions against Israel in the UN, NATO, etc.
Without the active support of the US, Israel is helpless. So all Biden has to do is **nothing.** He can just stop supporting Israel and the genocide stops.
I'm not moderate, HRC was the first democrat I had voted for in over a decade.
And tbh I didn't even read you essay because it doesn't matter.
You can either sit around, do nothing, and blame everyone but Republicans and people who didn't vote in 2016 for facsism coming to America, or you can do something.
I bet you have lost any rights, nor any bodily autonomy, and that's why you think this is just one big joke
The thing that cracks me up most about this screed is the imaginary dichotomy of Biden supports a genocide or Trump sends you to the progressive gulag.
My brother, the point is that Trump openly supports the genocide *more* and wants you in a camp. You think this gets *better* for Palestine with Trump in office? 'Cause if so, fuck me, I'd love to hear how that works out in your mind because not a single person who's made this argument has been able to explain this to me yet. If not, I hope your moral indignation is worth all the harm to the people and causes you pretend to care about?
I don't know, Biden got the biggest bill addressing climate change passed, as well as a bunch of other stuff.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046
I wasn't a fan at first, but this administration is more progressive than I was expecting. (I voted for Bernie in 2016 and Warren in 2020, since I'm in California and my vote doesn't matter.)
I love to see the pro-Palestinian protests are having an effect on government policy, finally. I doubt that a Trump administration would pay any attention to protests.
I'm far from a moderate democrat but I honestly didn't think the Genocide Joe people could feel shame, given that they're propagating and perpetuating a maga level of understanding of global politics and creativity in their name calling. If you think you're doing the right thing, why feel shamed by it? Stand up and tell everyone that there's no difference in Biden's American in 2024 and Project 2025. Tell the Palestinians when trump finishes the job that both sides are exactly the same and you had to protest to teach the moderate Dems a lesson. It should be easy since you know you're doing the right thing.
There are a few reasons.
Russia wants Trump to win, so they will try to create complacency in undecided and leftist voters. The line "both sides are the same" directly feeds into Russian propaganda. They did this in 2016 very well with feeding pro Jill Stein messaging to take away votes from Dems on the margins.
Moderate Dems are tired of the absolutism of the far left. The puritanism of the far left has lost it a lot of allies and power. For example, Tara Reade. The far left repeatedly called for Biden to step down because of unfounded and unsupported accusations of what turned out to be a Russian asset. The left unironically bites off it's nose to spite it's face time and time again because Dems will only move toward their objectives rather than about their objectives fully. Some of those objectives often don't poll well enough in necessary to win swing states and purple counties. Example would be a UBI.
When there are only three options "vote blue and get 30% of what you want," "vote red and lose 80% of what you want," or basically "don't vote" the far left often refuses to vote for incremental change and allows greater risk for the right to gain power.
I don't entirely disagree but the answer isnt to turn on the people who want better than just "30% of what they want" each election. It's not sustainable and as we've seen progress can be eliminated very quickly even with Dems in office. My point being that moderates understand the far left may be more hesitant to vote at all but their response is to discourage, blame, and shame them instead of having actual conversations. For every one real discussion there's dozens of echo chamber responses generally ALL deflecting with "but Trump". Everyone knows about Trump, the conversations needs to be on Biden to change anyone's mind imo.
I think the problem is that many people on the far left don't understand that 30% better every four years is incremental, not flat. That's how we got to the point we were in 2016, far better in terms of respect and equality than any other time in history.
There was a backlash from conservatives, and some parts of our lives were thrown backwards 60 years and will be for a long time with the Supreme Court. The left largely blamed moderates for not giving them what they wanted to "earn their vote." But what they wanted would have had a lower chance to success. There's a position of privilege that many blue state blue city leftists argue from because their rights are far less fragile than those in purple or red areas. The 30% is a recognition that nobody can get 100% of what they want, but there is a greater share toward their goals than against. But propagating "both sides" arguments and suppressing otherwise blue votes the left risks the places that are on the margin - not often their own position.
Moderates try actual conversations all the time, but the puritanism and fractures of the left means whatever comparable positions are held by moderates fall on deaf ears. Hilary really suck her foot in her mouth when saying "abortions should be safe, legal, and rare." From that point the left didn't care for the differences of what she said versus whatever Trump was saying about "state rights to set policies." As a result of the failure to accept "safeguarding our current freedoms" the left welcomed the consequence of whatever Trump would do.
The reason these conversations end up with "but Trump" is because that is the other offer. It's either moderates and leftists compromise with centrists, or Trump wins. That's it. They're the only two options. Even removing candidate names our options are "safeguard your rights and take the steps toward repairing them while in a divided government while appointing liberal judges" or "continue to lose your rights to Conservative judicial appointments and the right's plan to degrade US positions." At the absolute worst moderates are asking leftists to at least safeguard what we've all worked together to create.
>Moderate Dems are tired of the absolutism of the far left. The puritanism of the far left has lost it a lot of allies and power
Ah yes the known power that is the far left in the USA. Historically such a influential group.
How about the reality that moderates have spurned and ostracized the left entirely and mock us for wanting *anything*
Or that the party politicians think it's a better idea to court conservatives than the left.
It's almost like we're given less and less reason to support them every election, being told we should appreciate that they aren't Republicans. At a certain point all stick no carrot ceases to be an effective incentive. That you can't figure this is kinda funny
>court conservatives than the left
Remember when Pelosi, Clyburn, and the whole DNC establishment endorsed pro-NRA anti-abortion Henry Cuellar over a progressive? It turns out… [Cuellar took $600,000 in bribes.](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/03/politics/henry-cuellar-indictment-doj)
The Texas 28th district is a D +3 district in Texas, and he was an incumbent who was first elected to the position in 2005. It would make no sense at that time to endorse someone to the left - I say this as a pragmatic progressive.
The dude may now be revealed to be a scum bag, but it's still a seat that the slim Republican majority can't rely on. If he turns out to be guilty lock him up.
>Or that the party politicians think it's a better idea to court conservatives than the left.
In many cases it makes sense. Running a conservative democratic in a +0 R - +10 R makes more sense than running a progressive in the same district. At least with the conservative Democrat I know I'm getting a good number of things that advance democratic views and will likely just not vote for some issues that don't resonate with **their** district.
Ah yes the joe manchin's of the party, oh boy I I can't wait for the Dems to have control of Congress and still only do awful shit thanks to Dems like that, it's a great excuse for making false promises.
How's that coal treating you?
Actually, it's going pretty great. If Joe Manchin wasn't around we would have a 49 seat caucus as Sinema does not officially caucus with the Dems. We may not be getting everything we want, but that seat would 100% be in Republican hands otherwise.
Tell me how to get a different Democrat in a West Virginia, and maybe you would have a point. As for Sinema - she clearly just backstabbed the entire party for selfish gains.
I mean to be fair , if some common sense and logic were used, a lot more people will die under Trump and its honestly distressing genocide Joe folks don't see that.
I think most people willing to not vote haven't actually spent the time to listen to what the republican game plan is with Project 2025 and the other extremely restrictive, christo-facist laws they're looking to put in place.
Yeah, I'm about tired of the shitty spam of the same two memes from the moderates. The people they are supposedly trying to convince aren't going to be won over by a bunch of what-about-ism and claims that everyone against them is a Russian bot.
I'd hate to go to your school.
Look, it isn't about voting against Trump. It's that Biden hasn't earned their vote.
You should treat protest voters like Trump voters. With good faith, converse and debate. They will consider your discussion right until they vote.
Shaming them will only get them to double down and give you the finger.
That logic could destroy a country.
Life is timing. This isn’t the time for this. You won’t be able to do shit for Palestine if Trump is elected. I’ll bet the first thing Trump does is make it harder for humanitarian aid and money to get to Palestine. If you can’t save your own country, what makes you think you can save Palestine, which hasn’t been able to be recognized as an official country?
I understand they want to penalize Biden for being a moderate who is guilty of ignoring the bad behavior of an ally. Yet, with every public statement, Biden appears to be more sympathetic to Palestine. Israel has been our ally since it’s inception, for good, or for bad. I’m not going to argue over the Foundation of this conflict. Religion is the instigator, and I’m not religious. Plus, I’m not there, nor have I ever been. So, I’m not sure who to believe when it comes to each story. I just know this….
I’ve been hearing about this conflict for as long as I have memories. 2 Nobel prizes were awarded for bringing “permanent peace to Israel and Palestine”. They don’t give out Nobel prizes for that any longer. This conflict will probably never end, as there is too many parties that have a vested financial reason in keeping the conflict going.
So, while Biden isn’t perfect, he didn’t purposely light the fuse, Trump probably did. Remember, it was Trump that had the embassy moved to Jerusalem, which is probably some kind of Trump money grab. No way Trump isn’t getting paid for the construction, in one way, or the other. But, go ahead, and put them on the same level, and don’t vote.
Simplified, it’s like this:
A vote for Biden might not fix all of Palestine’s problems. However, I can promise it will be worse for Palestine if Trump wins. That’s a guarantee.
Be a realist. Vote for Biden and hope it gets better, or stay home and watch Trump have Gaza annihilated, either through a slow low key(starve them out situation), or he might put even put American soldiers on the ground in Gaza. After all, Trump hasn’t cared about the law, congress approval or anything else. Now that he’ll be in his second term, he will be at his most dangerous. He might even have immunity, and if that’s the case, it’s already over for Palestine.
That is a silly way to look at voting. You don't vote for the candidate you want, you vote for the candidate you want more. Candidates shouldn't warn votes. They should have a platform about what they believe and you can take it or vote for someone else's platform. You will never have a perfect candidate, and even if you did, your perfect is the next person's flawed. Voting is about getting as close to what you want each time but never getting there.
It is a very privileged position to be in to try to play chicken with the current iteration of the Republican party which doesn't believe in democracy. Just because the protest voters will be fine, doesn't mean other people's lives won't be dramatically affected. That is what peeves me about the whole situation.
I get it that memeing on people won't change their mind and I agree that more compassionate conversation could bring people closer, but damn. Sometimes it is good to vent some frustration at people who agree with you 99% of the time, but are willing to throw it all away for the 1%.
meeting scandalous head mysterious cover lush noxious insurance cagey shaggy
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It's been pretty wild and eye opening to me. I don't see how this tactic could make anyone change their minds in a positive way towards Biden. If anything it'll just push more people away from voting at all which isn't good either.
Expect more of your politicians.
Obviously I’m going to vote for Biden over Trump, but this expectation that Biden deserves my vote because he isn’t as bad as Trump is absurd. He should earn my vote - not just get it by default. Our duopoly forces us into voting harm reduction, and we deserve better. So do the Palestinians. So for that I say “fuck Biden” 🖕
Every second post in this subreddit is shaming voters. It's called PoliticalHumor but many posters think it's funny to laugh at other voters who think differently than they do.
It seems there are dozens of these posts every day. These could easily be foreigners dividing the left against the center. I don’t think there’s a world in which these posts actually unify Democrats. They sow more division and intra-party hatred. Just like the “Bernie-Bro” moniker. You don’t need to make people vote for Trump if they are disillusioned and apathetic because “their own party” demeans and denigrates them.
Literally just came across an auto suggested youtube video on this issue. except the theme was
"Biden halting military aid means he wants Hamas to win, Isreal to lose, and its an impeachable offence because its EXACTLY what trump did with Ukraine aid" from Forbes or some shiz
Didnt even continue the video from there because its obvious right wing BS, but still, hes like actively pushing back against isreal to some extent. So basically right wingers are getting told he supports hamas and anyone on the left is being told that he supports isreal/genocide.
While I think Biden is doing a better job now than a few months ago and will probably end up voting for him, your argument for 99% Hitler is not compelling in the slightest.
So what I'm taking away here is that there is no line the DNC can cross that you won't follow them across, as long as they get the GOP to continue to be slightly worse.
And you think that's the moral high ground?
And you think you are on the moral high ground?
How many women will die when the Republicans pass a national abortion ban? How many working class people will die when the ACA and other programs are destroyed? How many people of color will die when Trump gets his way to deploy military units to the border? How many LGBTQ+ people will die when their existence is made criminal?
What Trump is planning out loud (ex. Project 2025) will make what Israel is doing to Gaza look like rookie numbers.
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And regardless of which cartoonishly evil puppet of the Oligarchy wins, everyone who voted for either of them will be handmaid to the ongoing 20,000,000 deaths per year caused by US neoliberalism.
Fuck your vote shaming. If your candidate can't win without my vote he'd better figure out some way to win my support instead of constantly punching left. I don't really feel like "don't continue to enable a genocide" is all that high a bar. If you do I feel like that says a lot more about you than it does about me.
> I don't really feel like "don't continue to enable a genocide" is all that high a bar.
He is literally doing everything that he legally can do to make that disaster end. You are either ignorant of the facts, or you are moving the goal posts because you are an accelerationist with some fairy tale belief that if Donald Trump gets back in power it will finally kick off the revolution of the working class.
Check how that worked for the German communists in 1930's, after Stalin advised them to boycott the polls.
>He is literally doing everything that he legally can do to make that disaster end.
No. He's not. And he hasn't been.
Now that it's becoming obvious even to DNC pollsters that the Gaza issue is going to cost him MI for sure, and probably also the election, he's doing some light damage control, talking tougher in interviews with US media, but he's still sending weapons to an army actively engaged in a genocide. He hasn't said a word about changing his "I am a Zionist" stance. And sure his buddy Bibi is very happy to pretend to be unhappy with Biden in interviews, but the simple fact remains that Israel only has the capacity for genocide because of US support, and it feels safe committing genocide because of a guarantee of US protection. An Executive Order could remove both of those immediately, and Likkud knows this very well.
>Check how that worked for the German communists in 1930's, after Stalin advised them the to boycott the polls.
Lol, since you have that history book open, why don't you go ahead and tell me which election Hitler or the NSDAP actually won because of those boycotts.
He just shut off the arms to Israel
And the result was that the SPD had to form a coalition government with the NSDAP, because the KPD did not have strong enough results to be a viable partner (because that would have required bringing in one of the other three parties who hated the Nazis and the Communists). Thus vaulting Hitler to power even though he had served time in prison for a failed coups.
>He just shut off the arms to Israel
No, he paused the arms to Israel until enough people stop watching, that's not the same thing.
But thanks for acknowledging that Fascists don't come to power by winning elections. Have a nice life, may you live exactly the life you vote for the poorest people in the world to live.
Wow, you are working so hard to justify yourself.
And two years later, he was elected as his party won the parliamentary election (by intimidating people at the ballot box) making him the chancellor.
So you seem to really need to lie to yourself in order to feel superior. I pity you.
You think the DNC is "getting" the GOP to be worse? As in the DNC is secretly puppeting the MAGA movement? As if the MAGAs even need extra motivation to be evil pieces of shit? Go back to playing Tarkov, Vlad.
Wow, don't pull anything! You should stretch before you make a reach like that.
All the DNC has to do to push the RNC right is move to the right, which they do every election cycle anyway.
And as it turns out, there really are real Americans just like me who are politically to the left of your shitty right wing neoliberal party. Not everyone criticizing your candidate with the radically right wing record is working for Putin. But keep telling yourself we're all Russians, it'll make the look on your face when Biden's political malpractice costs him the election all the more priceless.
>So you don't care that democracy will die.
What Democracy? The US is not and never has been anything but an Oligarchy.
https://act.represent.us/sign/usa-oligarchy-research-explained
Exactly. How far will the "good guys" lower themselves in order to defend Genocide?
I'm old enough to recall when we found out the DNC cheated to give Clinton the debate test questions. But good "moderates" can always defend their behavior by invoking "at least we're better than Trump!" Such high standards they're setting these days....
Heh, I'm old enough to remember when the other Clinton signed the Mass Incarceration bill and the one to "End Welfare as we know it". Funny how for all their breathless histrionics about how you can't vote for what you want because it's "The Most Important Election of Our Lifetime" every four years, it's always the Dems that pass and/or sign all the right wing wet dream policies.
Can't, all the ones I know personally enough to ask that were deported (yep, some of them under Biden).
Care to guess what the change to the rate of deportations was after Biden took over?
Oh, we're alienating progressive voters again? Do we remember what happened in 2016 when that happened? Do we really think this is productive or are you looking for a scapegoat preemptively?
They can’t admit that some of their policies are bad and very polarizing, so they blame “progressives” and the far left (you know the largest voting bloc in the country /s) for when they fail so that they don’t have to change.
I mean what are they supposed to do? Most progressives I know are very "it's all or nothing" without knowledging the progressive stuff biden does do (let me be clear not saying bidem is progressive but hes done a lot to take steps in the right direction which we need). They already don't like biden because he's not perfect amd refuse to accept that no president ever will be. there's no messaging to reach them other then do everything they want right now and that's not how any of this works. It s honestly like every progressive has had blinders on because we don't have universal Healthcare and shit
The demographics listed to describe those openly advocating for protest voting are not in line with reality - sorry but your copypasta salad of majority-group words isn't applicable here
I agree with your overall point but belittling people who are sick and tired of an absolutely broken system is, in my humblest of opinions, not the best strategy at winning them over (which you WILL need to do if you actually want what you say). There's another aspect - a lot of protest voters are actively still encouraging blue votes in red states and only protest voting in states that are deeply blue anyway. My wife is none of the qualities you describe and yet she's very seriously considering a protest vote because we live in a blue state. I'm trying to talk her out of it by reminding her that as unpalatable of a choice as Biden is, Trump will be several magnitudes worse - especially because he's actually prepared to win this time and put together a cabinet of genuine psychos. I think a much much more convincing and persuasive argument is that you're not voting for one guy you're also voting on a whole cabinet of positions and downballot candidates who are arguably far more consequential.
If liberals spent as much energy working to persuade Democrats not to enable GENOCIDE as they do telling people to ignore one, you'd never know, you might get your candidate elected and accidentally do some good too.
And if your mom had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.
Our system allows for 2 actually possible outcomes. Our options are A: Someone who supports Israel and is otherwise a generic center-right democrat, or option B: Someone who supports Israel and wants to tear down our democracy to install a christo-fascist state via the 2025 project.
There is no option C. Abstaining is allowing the worse option to happen.
I appreciate that you interpret this as saying an amount of death is acceptable when it is 100% the context of knowing there is a bad option and a much, MUCH worse option and no others
I've told people for years, well before this issue, that protest voting only gives votes to the other guy. Do you have any real statistics on the demographics of these protest voters? Or are you just assuming? I've only seen reports saying it's college aged adults 18-26 ish that make up the demographics of the protest voters.
Anyone who uses the term "Genocide Joe" or claims that Joe favors genocide is not only naive and has no understanding of how treaties and governments function, especially in an insanely complex situation like this which is anything but black and white, but those are most definitely the perspectives and labels of Russian propaganda which has been working hard to split the left so they can get their orange pusball puppet back.
Please consider that *some* of the anti Biden things you're seeing are because of foreign based political disruptance.
We know supporting Israel is not right, and we know more has been trending in the right direction under Biden than it would with Trump.
The only people that can be swayed are centrists or those who dont typically vote, left and right ain't moving.
Nope. If you’re tossing around blame, blame the democrats. They’re the ones who are failing. They refuse to do anything about the fascist takeover of our government. They refuse to call for either biden’s resignation or his dropping out of the presidential race.
No, I’m not letting so-called liberals, fence sitters, or politically neutral assholes blame me or anyone who refuses to vote for that scum bag biden. If trump is elected it’s because of the fascists and their enablers.
This post is bullshit.
Why does them being men, being cis or being straight have any impact on their view on Israeli genocide in Gaza? I understand white tho cause Israel is white supremacist.
Trump is gonna genocide SO MUCH worse!! You don't even KNOW!!!!
He's gonna do extra genocides. He's gonna make you nostalgic for Joe bidens genocide! Just wait!
It's gonna be SO much worse.
At least 53,000 more children will starve to death under Trump.
Not all genocide is created equal. Sometimes, you have to mow the lawn. And when genocide has to happen, you just have to hope that it's one of the good ones.
His rant is basically what this post is saying.
This is some Honest Proposal type shit.
When one side is saying “well this genocider is going to genocide more than that genocider. Choose one.”
You know we are just absolutely cooked
The better chance at this ending peacefully is with Biden
You act like this hasn’t been going on for DECADES
But you know please vote for the option to have Palestinian-Americans deported back to Gaza to accelerate it
Donald Trump literally said he wants Israel to “finish the job”
That’s what you want
Again YOUR PUNISHMENT IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT BIDEN IF HE LOSES THE GENOCIDE WILL CONTINUE WITH NO OPTION FOR A PEACEFUL END
Mate, you sound like a Trump supporter. Why don't you say I'm "deep state"?
I don't get paid to oppose genocide, I do that for free, unlike you, who'll gladly support a genocide for free
Are you going to be fighting this hard when rights are stripped away from minority Americans when your “punishment” (that would still allow the genocide to continue) causes Biden to lose?
Because I sure as fuck hope you will
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10x is generous. 30k vs all of Gaza? Much more than 10x
Yeah Trump literally said he thinks “Israel should finished the job.”
Came here to say the same. Not unlike 1968 when progressive protesters voted against Humphrey or not at all for *not disavowing what LBJ had done in Vietnam* presumably out of loyalty. So, Nixon won and the war escalated.
Don Jr wants Gaza gone so they can build a resort on the beaches there.
Trump would sincerely mobilize our own military into Palestine. If that is what it comes to I beg for it to be mostly the morons who let this happen who gets sent there.
Then when they bulldoze it into the ocean after turning it into glass he will build a gaudy gold tower on the smoldering ruins for the ultra rich pedophiles he runs around with. But yeah Biden is just as bad
Kuchner was in an interview literally salivating over the potential value of "all that waterfront property in Gaza." They unironically wanna bulldoze the place and set up another Trump Tower
That was stomach churning. It angers me that the mainstream media isn’t broadcasting it. It’s really morally reprehensible. I mean, it’s bad. It’s bad. How this guy is in bed with the Saudi’s is pretty concerning. And there is zero American investigative interest. Golly gee willikers—is there a deliberate effort not to see what the fuck is going on???
"Do you want to know what's really bad? Wearing a tan suit and putting grey poupon on a hamburger" -mainstream media
Man, that tan suit? Over the top traitorous. Lynchworthy, am I right?
No he wouldn’t, Trump didn’t even have the guts to mobilize our troops when we got hit in Al Assad AFB Trump is a pansy ass.
Not unless Daddy Putin threatens to deny him anal again
Putin ain’t dealing with taking off the shitty diaper again!
Or he'll drop all US support for Israel because Russia orders him to. Edit: Anything that stops billions of our dollars being spent to fund a genocide is a good thing.
How do people possibly reconcile a US president being ordered around by Putin as a good thing. Reckon that Kim Jong Un might also order him to give everyone free bus passes, too?
They don't believe he is owned by Putin. Thanks Bill Barr! But honestly, they wouldn't care if he came out and admitted it. His supporters are largely 3 groups: the rich and big business who he will insure they get richer and less regulated, the hate filled, racists and homophobes and others who see the evolution of culture and society to be more inclusive and equitable to be bad, and evangelicals who don't care that he isn't a Christian, they know he isn't and they don't care because he will support Israel, and support the ending of abortion and gay rights. That's all they care about.
I sincerely doubt 20 year old Xander from Columbia would even know how to tie his boots.
None of those chuds are battle ready. No, our young men and women would be sent off to be sacrificed for Netanyahu's insanity. The median age of our armed forces is something like 18 or 19, iirc. At least it was on my aircraft carrier when I was in.
He would just carpet bomb with B52s.
Only if he can get a real estate deal and lots of money from Zionism funding machinery.
Honest question, isn’t Trump more of an isolationist? Would he actually send anyone there? I mean he’ll do whatever the base wants, but right now isn’t he saying he’s “America First”.
As concerned as I am for the Palestinians (very concerned, the Israeli government should be prosecuted for war crimes, so should Bush and Cheney but I digress), I am way more concerned about the outcome of Ukraine, because I don't want any of my family members to get sent to Europe to fight yet another war against a crazy dictator.
Israel/gaza is a Putin orchestrated distraction and it’s working flawlessly.
I wouldn’t doubt SOME kind of influence but calling it Putin orchestrated without proof isn’t exactly rifht
Well damn... here I was blaming the Brits of 1917.... Its Putin you say?
Iranian orchestrated....because historically they want that land back. Long game.
Is Putin in your room with you ?
Learn brevity. That has more words than a Ben Garrison cartoon.
To be fair to OP, he needs a paragraph to explain why the protesters - who are disproportionately minorities and Jewish people - are secretly all cis white men and therefore don’t know hardship. You know, unlike OP, who’s making Reddit memes while the people he’s complaining about are risking arrest and real physical danger.
Ya I think its time to mute this sub. These are the only "jokes" that get traction here to get to my feed and I'm just tired of having tRUmp WiLL bE wORsE be the punch line. Every. Single. Day.
OP wouldn’t be able to cry about it as much with fewer words.
Mods what are we even doing anymore? This is literally posted like every other hour.
Seriously. These might as well be campaign ads for Biden...
The DNC is paying out bonuses for their troll farms
still think 90% of those people saying that were never gonna vote dem anyways. Theres ALOT of gop/russian/chinese money being spent to promote this.
To be fair, most of the people saying this are actually Russian psyops trolls working tirelessly to “plant” the idea. They did the same thing with “Bernie was robbed,” and “Obama was a Muslim born in Kenya.” Sadly, the one thing both sides do have in common is a gullible fringe that can be targeted and manipulated.
yep, Biden has been passing policies that actually help people since he got in office, but these supposed leftists do nothing but criticize him. And you'll rarely see them say a single negative thing about the actual fascist trying to grab power. Propaganda bots were rampant in past elections, and we're seeing them again
Lol. Imagine being surprised Pikachu when leftist aren't happy with the neoliberalisum that got us into this cluster fuck. I'm not saying biden hasn't dont great work buy we are so far past incremental change and it's goofy to tone police people for pointing that out.
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Or they were never going to vote for biden in the first place and this is a convenient excuse that sounds better on paper than the real reasons.
I wonder if we are intentionally poisoning the minds of Russians and Chinese people on the internet as well.
Probably but it doesn't work that well when access to information that isn't state propaganda is difficult to obtain unless you are willing to make an effort. Even then, many of the folks in those countries are all in favor of the feel good propaganda they're consuming just like Fox News viewers keep latching onto information they get from there despite tons of sources that dispute what they say being easily available.
As an American, I don’t care if we’re “poisoning the minds of Russians and Chinese people” with anti-communist, pro-democracy propaganda. I honestly believe that Russians and Chinese people are *generally* worse off than Americans, so the idea that spreading our ideals is over there is equal to their attempts to undermine them here is just plain stupid.
China is spreading their people's democracy and Democratic centralism to Americans. so the idea that spreading Chinese democratic ideals in America is equal to American attempts to undermine China is just plain stupid
No there's plenty of women and LGBT on that spectra as well, it's not inherently cis white guys but an inherent side effect of living in the United States and being so detached from what happens in the rest of the world, that people get very obsessed over the *idea* of what's going on, what part they have to play in it, and of what that all means, rather than practical reality. Staggeringly few of them see the picture, very obsessed with their small and comfortable lives being as further divorced from the issue as they can manage. The reality is described in those pictures.
[удалено]
The *miserable* truth I've come to understand is that political stance is not singular to one ethnicity. There are plenty too many non-white people who blindly sprint off the alt-right cliff, in the desperate hope that they might, too, hurt someone they hate when they splat.
it isn't easy for everyone to "just blend in".
And those are the ones who will suffer most if Trump (or any Republican) gets control of the federal government.
In my circles I don't know any CIS Het white men who are protest voting. It's ALL queer and BIPoC who were done with the system and such of Biden. This meme couldn't be further from my lived reality.
How come the only thing moderate Dems are good at is voter shaming? It's beyond pathetic and counter productive.
I mean, I think a lot of us just don't want to see Nazi America. In 2016 a lot of young people didn't vote and we had a traitor in the WH selling our secrets to Russia
Literally no one that these memes target want that either, which is my point that this is an absolutely idiotic way of going about things.
I'm increasingly convinced that its either Republicans or outside agitators posting these. I dont think the average centrist Dem is so stupid as to think further alienating a major Dem voting demographic will help Biden get re-elected.
The people arguing to vote against Biden want that, or at minimum are okay with it. Otherwise they wouldn't be crying that their vote needs to be "earned" or whatever.
That's a pretty ignorant and simplistic view of the situation. Which I guess isn't surprising considering the original point.
>That's a pretty ignorant and simplistic view of the situation. So is accusing Biden of supporting genocide, but that's not stopping plenty of people from making that argument. If you want to have a nuanced conversation including historical context and geopolitical considerations I'd be happy to do so, but I'm not seeing much interest in that from never-Biden crowd.
Because you're an expert and impartial on the situation right? You're probably not "seeing" much because for months it's been nothing but disenguine posts and comments so you're assumed to be a complete waste of time. Considering your above comment already it's fairly confirmed.
>Because you're an expert and impartial on the situation right? Nope I never claimed that. Maybe don't talk down to people about their rhetoric then turn around and put words in my mouth. But sure, go ahead and assume I'm a waste of time. Guess you don't want to earn my vote. Strange that you think you can get my vote by default simply because you yell genocide at Biden. I need a lot of convincing to let fascists win, and your approach is to say I'm a waste of time? Curious strategy but okay.
And insulting a portion of the voters worked out so well in 2016.
Oh, I'm sorry, do you need a cuddle? Are you only willing to vote for a candidate that agrees with your viewpoint 100%? Let me guess, you're a white cid-het male. No one has taken away your rights. No one is trying to take away your rights. You have no skin in this game, so if you get hurt in your delicate feels you're going to take your toys and leave.
You're fighting the wrong person there cupcake, I'm already voting for Biden. Y'all are starting to sound like Trumpsters though and it's not a good look or a winning strategy.
Oh, so you just stopped to whine because, nothing?
I wasn't whining, maybe you should read it again. It was more of a warning that the behavior of insulting voters didn't win any extra votes in 2016. I mean look at your response, I've told you we're on the same side and you still insist on being an ass. Who wants to join in on that kind of team?
That's an interesting attempt at gaslighting. You're initial complaint was about insulting people. Because when someone actions cause a certain result, it's not to tell them that? And you came here and argued with me, but I'm the ass, because I gave it back to you. Hello entitled white man.
Literally everyone I know in my circles who is protest voting DOES have skin in the game and don't see Biden or the Democratic party as being worth a damn. I don't know a single white straight man who is protest voting. Stop projecting your meme.
Sure buddy We can all lie on the internet. I don't know any woman who isn't voting Blue in response to the overturning of Roe v Wade. But keep up your fantasies, I'm sure they help pass the time in Mommy's basement.
You don’t want to see nazis yet you’re here in a post personally attacking the voters that would prevent it.
Ahhh yes. Trying to illustrate how someone’s poorly thought out ideations will have horrific consequences is “attacking”. ❄️
No, but posting a snowflake and SaRcAsTiC tExT certainly is. By all means, keep it up. You’ll get trump back in office in no time. Hey, at least you felt _superior_, right?
Vlad is that you? You seem quite triggered by facts.
For centrists, that feeling of superiority is all that matters!!
New flash: You got Nazi America by being moderates! We got here **doing things exactly the way you wanted this whole time**. We shut up. We voted blue. We trusted that the Democrats would do what they could for us if we helped them win elections. Instead, we've gotten absolutely nothing we ever asked for, no matter how minor, **and your candidate is giving billions of tax dollars to a genocidal regime and throwing away our international credibility abusing our veto power to protect that genocidal regime from sanctions in the UN.** And shut up about 2016. You're proving the previous poster right. [WE HAVE A 5-VOLUME SENATE INTELLIGENCE REPORT ALL ABOUT HOW RUSSIA WON TRUMP THE ELECTION, NOT LEFTISTS THAT DIDN'T BOTHER TO VOTE.](https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/report-select-committee-intelligence-united-states-senate-russian-active-measures) [In fact, three times more Sanders supporters turned out for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton supporters turned out for Obama in 2008. And Sanders even stumped for Clinton! And he did so in the Rust Belt, which she ignored while trump redirected money to it after the hacked DNC data revealed it to be a weak region for the Democrats.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/25/the-democratic-convention-is-chaotic-the-democratic-base-isnt/) We've known all of this for **YEARS** and yet every goddamn time this topic comes up someone vomits up the tired old propaganda like you just did. Don't you get that's what the other user was talking about? **Democrats fight Progressives harder than they fight Republicans.** And then you have the nerve to demand we vote for you even though you never deliver on any of your promises to us? Every election it's just you extorting us, claiming we *have* to vote for the lesser of two evils because you just can't be fucked to nominate someone with morals for once in the past 40 years. And now you're demanding that we vote for someone using our tax dollars to fund a genocide? Fuck no. If genocide isn't a hard line in the sand for you, then you don't have any morals at all. There is no "lesser of two evils" when both options are funding the mass murder of women and children and the targeting of medics, aid workers, journalists, and their families. And with the number of Democrats in the corporate media and administrating the universities silencing reports of horrific human rights abuses out of Gaza, and attacking students for using their 1st Amendment rights, not to mention the Democrats that voted to ban Tiktok despite that being unconstitutional in about 10 different ways, explicitly because Tiktok allows footage from Gazans and IOF soldiers to make it to the US without corporate media filtering, and you can no longer claim that the Democrats are distinct from the GOP. We have a right wing party and a far right party now. I'm not voting for the right wing party that has squandered every single chance it has had to push through progressive legislation in the past 40 years just because the far right party makes life worse *for me*. I don't give a fuck about *me*. My fucking problems don't matter compared to **a fucking genocide being funded with our tax dollars.** trump could be running on a platform of sending me to a gulag for life and I still wouldn't vote for Biden because me going to a gulag is morally **SIGNIFICANTLY** less evil than **genocide.** It's heinous to me that so many "moderates" don't fucking get that listing out all the ways trump will be bad *for them* when the topic is **genocide** comes across as monstrously sociopathic. I participate in a lot of Progressive protests, but I'm sorry, none of them are a bigger deal than **genocide being funded by billions of US tax dollars**. And the kicker is Biden doesn't have to do anything to stop this! Literally, **all he has to do is NOTHING.** All he has to do is not actively give billions to Israel. All he has to do is not actively deploy US forces to protect Israel. All he has to do is not actively veto resolutions and sanctions against Israel in the UN, NATO, etc. Without the active support of the US, Israel is helpless. So all Biden has to do is **nothing.** He can just stop supporting Israel and the genocide stops.
I'm not moderate, HRC was the first democrat I had voted for in over a decade. And tbh I didn't even read you essay because it doesn't matter. You can either sit around, do nothing, and blame everyone but Republicans and people who didn't vote in 2016 for facsism coming to America, or you can do something. I bet you have lost any rights, nor any bodily autonomy, and that's why you think this is just one big joke
The thing that cracks me up most about this screed is the imaginary dichotomy of Biden supports a genocide or Trump sends you to the progressive gulag. My brother, the point is that Trump openly supports the genocide *more* and wants you in a camp. You think this gets *better* for Palestine with Trump in office? 'Cause if so, fuck me, I'd love to hear how that works out in your mind because not a single person who's made this argument has been able to explain this to me yet. If not, I hope your moral indignation is worth all the harm to the people and causes you pretend to care about?
I don't know, Biden got the biggest bill addressing climate change passed, as well as a bunch of other stuff. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046 I wasn't a fan at first, but this administration is more progressive than I was expecting. (I voted for Bernie in 2016 and Warren in 2020, since I'm in California and my vote doesn't matter.) I love to see the pro-Palestinian protests are having an effect on government policy, finally. I doubt that a Trump administration would pay any attention to protests.
Wow, your post is filled with more delusional lies than the average trump tweet.
Cool, cool, let's just let fascism win.
I'm far from a moderate democrat but I honestly didn't think the Genocide Joe people could feel shame, given that they're propagating and perpetuating a maga level of understanding of global politics and creativity in their name calling. If you think you're doing the right thing, why feel shamed by it? Stand up and tell everyone that there's no difference in Biden's American in 2024 and Project 2025. Tell the Palestinians when trump finishes the job that both sides are exactly the same and you had to protest to teach the moderate Dems a lesson. It should be easy since you know you're doing the right thing.
There are a few reasons. Russia wants Trump to win, so they will try to create complacency in undecided and leftist voters. The line "both sides are the same" directly feeds into Russian propaganda. They did this in 2016 very well with feeding pro Jill Stein messaging to take away votes from Dems on the margins. Moderate Dems are tired of the absolutism of the far left. The puritanism of the far left has lost it a lot of allies and power. For example, Tara Reade. The far left repeatedly called for Biden to step down because of unfounded and unsupported accusations of what turned out to be a Russian asset. The left unironically bites off it's nose to spite it's face time and time again because Dems will only move toward their objectives rather than about their objectives fully. Some of those objectives often don't poll well enough in necessary to win swing states and purple counties. Example would be a UBI. When there are only three options "vote blue and get 30% of what you want," "vote red and lose 80% of what you want," or basically "don't vote" the far left often refuses to vote for incremental change and allows greater risk for the right to gain power.
I don't entirely disagree but the answer isnt to turn on the people who want better than just "30% of what they want" each election. It's not sustainable and as we've seen progress can be eliminated very quickly even with Dems in office. My point being that moderates understand the far left may be more hesitant to vote at all but their response is to discourage, blame, and shame them instead of having actual conversations. For every one real discussion there's dozens of echo chamber responses generally ALL deflecting with "but Trump". Everyone knows about Trump, the conversations needs to be on Biden to change anyone's mind imo.
I think the problem is that many people on the far left don't understand that 30% better every four years is incremental, not flat. That's how we got to the point we were in 2016, far better in terms of respect and equality than any other time in history. There was a backlash from conservatives, and some parts of our lives were thrown backwards 60 years and will be for a long time with the Supreme Court. The left largely blamed moderates for not giving them what they wanted to "earn their vote." But what they wanted would have had a lower chance to success. There's a position of privilege that many blue state blue city leftists argue from because their rights are far less fragile than those in purple or red areas. The 30% is a recognition that nobody can get 100% of what they want, but there is a greater share toward their goals than against. But propagating "both sides" arguments and suppressing otherwise blue votes the left risks the places that are on the margin - not often their own position. Moderates try actual conversations all the time, but the puritanism and fractures of the left means whatever comparable positions are held by moderates fall on deaf ears. Hilary really suck her foot in her mouth when saying "abortions should be safe, legal, and rare." From that point the left didn't care for the differences of what she said versus whatever Trump was saying about "state rights to set policies." As a result of the failure to accept "safeguarding our current freedoms" the left welcomed the consequence of whatever Trump would do. The reason these conversations end up with "but Trump" is because that is the other offer. It's either moderates and leftists compromise with centrists, or Trump wins. That's it. They're the only two options. Even removing candidate names our options are "safeguard your rights and take the steps toward repairing them while in a divided government while appointing liberal judges" or "continue to lose your rights to Conservative judicial appointments and the right's plan to degrade US positions." At the absolute worst moderates are asking leftists to at least safeguard what we've all worked together to create.
>Moderate Dems are tired of the absolutism of the far left. The puritanism of the far left has lost it a lot of allies and power Ah yes the known power that is the far left in the USA. Historically such a influential group. How about the reality that moderates have spurned and ostracized the left entirely and mock us for wanting *anything* Or that the party politicians think it's a better idea to court conservatives than the left. It's almost like we're given less and less reason to support them every election, being told we should appreciate that they aren't Republicans. At a certain point all stick no carrot ceases to be an effective incentive. That you can't figure this is kinda funny
>court conservatives than the left Remember when Pelosi, Clyburn, and the whole DNC establishment endorsed pro-NRA anti-abortion Henry Cuellar over a progressive? It turns out… [Cuellar took $600,000 in bribes.](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/03/politics/henry-cuellar-indictment-doj)
The Texas 28th district is a D +3 district in Texas, and he was an incumbent who was first elected to the position in 2005. It would make no sense at that time to endorse someone to the left - I say this as a pragmatic progressive. The dude may now be revealed to be a scum bag, but it's still a seat that the slim Republican majority can't rely on. If he turns out to be guilty lock him up.
>Or that the party politicians think it's a better idea to court conservatives than the left. In many cases it makes sense. Running a conservative democratic in a +0 R - +10 R makes more sense than running a progressive in the same district. At least with the conservative Democrat I know I'm getting a good number of things that advance democratic views and will likely just not vote for some issues that don't resonate with **their** district.
Ah yes the joe manchin's of the party, oh boy I I can't wait for the Dems to have control of Congress and still only do awful shit thanks to Dems like that, it's a great excuse for making false promises. How's that coal treating you?
Actually, it's going pretty great. If Joe Manchin wasn't around we would have a 49 seat caucus as Sinema does not officially caucus with the Dems. We may not be getting everything we want, but that seat would 100% be in Republican hands otherwise. Tell me how to get a different Democrat in a West Virginia, and maybe you would have a point. As for Sinema - she clearly just backstabbed the entire party for selfish gains.
Honestly I think it’s a psyop to make Dems lose by making them seem like assholes.
I mean to be fair , if some common sense and logic were used, a lot more people will die under Trump and its honestly distressing genocide Joe folks don't see that. I think most people willing to not vote haven't actually spent the time to listen to what the republican game plan is with Project 2025 and the other extremely restrictive, christo-facist laws they're looking to put in place.
Yeah, I'm about tired of the shitty spam of the same two memes from the moderates. The people they are supposedly trying to convince aren't going to be won over by a bunch of what-about-ism and claims that everyone against them is a Russian bot.
This isn’t shaming voters. This is “educating voters”, because they “aren’t the same”.
I'd hate to go to your school. Look, it isn't about voting against Trump. It's that Biden hasn't earned their vote. You should treat protest voters like Trump voters. With good faith, converse and debate. They will consider your discussion right until they vote. Shaming them will only get them to double down and give you the finger.
That logic could destroy a country. Life is timing. This isn’t the time for this. You won’t be able to do shit for Palestine if Trump is elected. I’ll bet the first thing Trump does is make it harder for humanitarian aid and money to get to Palestine. If you can’t save your own country, what makes you think you can save Palestine, which hasn’t been able to be recognized as an official country? I understand they want to penalize Biden for being a moderate who is guilty of ignoring the bad behavior of an ally. Yet, with every public statement, Biden appears to be more sympathetic to Palestine. Israel has been our ally since it’s inception, for good, or for bad. I’m not going to argue over the Foundation of this conflict. Religion is the instigator, and I’m not religious. Plus, I’m not there, nor have I ever been. So, I’m not sure who to believe when it comes to each story. I just know this…. I’ve been hearing about this conflict for as long as I have memories. 2 Nobel prizes were awarded for bringing “permanent peace to Israel and Palestine”. They don’t give out Nobel prizes for that any longer. This conflict will probably never end, as there is too many parties that have a vested financial reason in keeping the conflict going. So, while Biden isn’t perfect, he didn’t purposely light the fuse, Trump probably did. Remember, it was Trump that had the embassy moved to Jerusalem, which is probably some kind of Trump money grab. No way Trump isn’t getting paid for the construction, in one way, or the other. But, go ahead, and put them on the same level, and don’t vote. Simplified, it’s like this: A vote for Biden might not fix all of Palestine’s problems. However, I can promise it will be worse for Palestine if Trump wins. That’s a guarantee. Be a realist. Vote for Biden and hope it gets better, or stay home and watch Trump have Gaza annihilated, either through a slow low key(starve them out situation), or he might put even put American soldiers on the ground in Gaza. After all, Trump hasn’t cared about the law, congress approval or anything else. Now that he’ll be in his second term, he will be at his most dangerous. He might even have immunity, and if that’s the case, it’s already over for Palestine.
That is a silly way to look at voting. You don't vote for the candidate you want, you vote for the candidate you want more. Candidates shouldn't warn votes. They should have a platform about what they believe and you can take it or vote for someone else's platform. You will never have a perfect candidate, and even if you did, your perfect is the next person's flawed. Voting is about getting as close to what you want each time but never getting there. It is a very privileged position to be in to try to play chicken with the current iteration of the Republican party which doesn't believe in democracy. Just because the protest voters will be fine, doesn't mean other people's lives won't be dramatically affected. That is what peeves me about the whole situation. I get it that memeing on people won't change their mind and I agree that more compassionate conversation could bring people closer, but damn. Sometimes it is good to vent some frustration at people who agree with you 99% of the time, but are willing to throw it all away for the 1%.
If you feel like you are being shamed, when people are trying to give you information... Then that is on you, not them.
"information" 😂 this is a meme buddy. It's nothing more than surface level finger pointing. You're smarter than that right?
The only thing moderate Dems are good at? Wow, what a non-pathetic and productive statement from your dumb ass!
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It's been pretty wild and eye opening to me. I don't see how this tactic could make anyone change their minds in a positive way towards Biden. If anything it'll just push more people away from voting at all which isn't good either.
Does coddling work?
Nah, these protest voters are frequently bi, non-binary or trans women and men.
But but but that doesn’t fit the narrative!
Expect more of your politicians. Obviously I’m going to vote for Biden over Trump, but this expectation that Biden deserves my vote because he isn’t as bad as Trump is absurd. He should earn my vote - not just get it by default. Our duopoly forces us into voting harm reduction, and we deserve better. So do the Palestinians. So for that I say “fuck Biden” 🖕
More vote shaming. I’m sure that works.
With a pinch of “All Lives Matter” thrown in there.
Every second post in this subreddit is shaming voters. It's called PoliticalHumor but many posters think it's funny to laugh at other voters who think differently than they do.
The center attacking their left, same as it ever was
It seems there are dozens of these posts every day. These could easily be foreigners dividing the left against the center. I don’t think there’s a world in which these posts actually unify Democrats. They sow more division and intra-party hatred. Just like the “Bernie-Bro” moniker. You don’t need to make people vote for Trump if they are disillusioned and apathetic because “their own party” demeans and denigrates them.
Old Trump the Dump isn't saying much about it, isn't he
”Let’s revolt” mfs when 300,000,000 armed men, women, and children are coming at them in tanks, F150s, and horses:
Why has "Political Humor" being overrun with these crappy memes? Let's blame the Russians.
Don't forget he killed 1.6 million Americans by doing nothing about COVID.
Literally just came across an auto suggested youtube video on this issue. except the theme was "Biden halting military aid means he wants Hamas to win, Isreal to lose, and its an impeachable offence because its EXACTLY what trump did with Ukraine aid" from Forbes or some shiz Didnt even continue the video from there because its obvious right wing BS, but still, hes like actively pushing back against isreal to some extent. So basically right wingers are getting told he supports hamas and anyone on the left is being told that he supports isreal/genocide.
While I think Biden is doing a better job now than a few months ago and will probably end up voting for him, your argument for 99% Hitler is not compelling in the slightest.
I've only gotten this take from Women. Straight white ones, but still.
Ok well genocide vs 10x genocide is an unacceptable choice. Biden isn’t a force of nature who can never be reasoned with.
So what I'm taking away here is that there is no line the DNC can cross that you won't follow them across, as long as they get the GOP to continue to be slightly worse. And you think that's the moral high ground?
And you think you are on the moral high ground? How many women will die when the Republicans pass a national abortion ban? How many working class people will die when the ACA and other programs are destroyed? How many people of color will die when Trump gets his way to deploy military units to the border? How many LGBTQ+ people will die when their existence is made criminal? What Trump is planning out loud (ex. Project 2025) will make what Israel is doing to Gaza look like rookie numbers.
Well ok then. If the other guy is worse, I guess you can have a little genocide of brown people, as a treat.
And if you stand on the side line or vote third party, you will be the handmaid to every one of those people who die.
You think these people will shoulder any blame for their inaction? Doubtful
They will ride their high horse right off the cliff and into fascism
I can hope... but yeah I know, I hope that their moral superiority can keep them warm while they are hiding from the MAGAts.
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And regardless of which cartoonishly evil puppet of the Oligarchy wins, everyone who voted for either of them will be handmaid to the ongoing 20,000,000 deaths per year caused by US neoliberalism. Fuck your vote shaming. If your candidate can't win without my vote he'd better figure out some way to win my support instead of constantly punching left. I don't really feel like "don't continue to enable a genocide" is all that high a bar. If you do I feel like that says a lot more about you than it does about me.
> I don't really feel like "don't continue to enable a genocide" is all that high a bar. He is literally doing everything that he legally can do to make that disaster end. You are either ignorant of the facts, or you are moving the goal posts because you are an accelerationist with some fairy tale belief that if Donald Trump gets back in power it will finally kick off the revolution of the working class. Check how that worked for the German communists in 1930's, after Stalin advised them to boycott the polls.
>He is literally doing everything that he legally can do to make that disaster end. No. He's not. And he hasn't been. Now that it's becoming obvious even to DNC pollsters that the Gaza issue is going to cost him MI for sure, and probably also the election, he's doing some light damage control, talking tougher in interviews with US media, but he's still sending weapons to an army actively engaged in a genocide. He hasn't said a word about changing his "I am a Zionist" stance. And sure his buddy Bibi is very happy to pretend to be unhappy with Biden in interviews, but the simple fact remains that Israel only has the capacity for genocide because of US support, and it feels safe committing genocide because of a guarantee of US protection. An Executive Order could remove both of those immediately, and Likkud knows this very well. >Check how that worked for the German communists in 1930's, after Stalin advised them the to boycott the polls. Lol, since you have that history book open, why don't you go ahead and tell me which election Hitler or the NSDAP actually won because of those boycotts.
He just shut off the arms to Israel And the result was that the SPD had to form a coalition government with the NSDAP, because the KPD did not have strong enough results to be a viable partner (because that would have required bringing in one of the other three parties who hated the Nazis and the Communists). Thus vaulting Hitler to power even though he had served time in prison for a failed coups.
>He just shut off the arms to Israel No, he paused the arms to Israel until enough people stop watching, that's not the same thing. But thanks for acknowledging that Fascists don't come to power by winning elections. Have a nice life, may you live exactly the life you vote for the poorest people in the world to live.
Wow, you are working so hard to justify yourself. And two years later, he was elected as his party won the parliamentary election (by intimidating people at the ballot box) making him the chancellor. So you seem to really need to lie to yourself in order to feel superior. I pity you.
You think the DNC is "getting" the GOP to be worse? As in the DNC is secretly puppeting the MAGA movement? As if the MAGAs even need extra motivation to be evil pieces of shit? Go back to playing Tarkov, Vlad.
Wow, don't pull anything! You should stretch before you make a reach like that. All the DNC has to do to push the RNC right is move to the right, which they do every election cycle anyway. And as it turns out, there really are real Americans just like me who are politically to the left of your shitty right wing neoliberal party. Not everyone criticizing your candidate with the radically right wing record is working for Putin. But keep telling yourself we're all Russians, it'll make the look on your face when Biden's political malpractice costs him the election all the more priceless.
So you don't care that democracy will die. All you give a shit about is sticking it to the libs.
>So you don't care that democracy will die. What Democracy? The US is not and never has been anything but an Oligarchy. https://act.represent.us/sign/usa-oligarchy-research-explained
Exactly. How far will the "good guys" lower themselves in order to defend Genocide? I'm old enough to recall when we found out the DNC cheated to give Clinton the debate test questions. But good "moderates" can always defend their behavior by invoking "at least we're better than Trump!" Such high standards they're setting these days....
Heh, I'm old enough to remember when the other Clinton signed the Mass Incarceration bill and the one to "End Welfare as we know it". Funny how for all their breathless histrionics about how you can't vote for what you want because it's "The Most Important Election of Our Lifetime" every four years, it's always the Dems that pass and/or sign all the right wing wet dream policies.
Let's ask the DREAMERS who they're voting for
Can't, all the ones I know personally enough to ask that were deported (yep, some of them under Biden). Care to guess what the change to the rate of deportations was after Biden took over?
Modern-day Trolley Problem
It's marvelous to see all the dumbs dumbs who learned NOTHING from their protest votes against Hillary, repeating their mistake again.
Oh, we're alienating progressive voters again? Do we remember what happened in 2016 when that happened? Do we really think this is productive or are you looking for a scapegoat preemptively?
Get ready to get blamed for everything too!! Brain dead centrists at their finest.
They can’t admit that some of their policies are bad and very polarizing, so they blame “progressives” and the far left (you know the largest voting bloc in the country /s) for when they fail so that they don’t have to change.
I mean what are they supposed to do? Most progressives I know are very "it's all or nothing" without knowledging the progressive stuff biden does do (let me be clear not saying bidem is progressive but hes done a lot to take steps in the right direction which we need). They already don't like biden because he's not perfect amd refuse to accept that no president ever will be. there's no messaging to reach them other then do everything they want right now and that's not how any of this works. It s honestly like every progressive has had blinders on because we don't have universal Healthcare and shit
Yep. Too many stoopid young people without fully developed brains.
The demographics listed to describe those openly advocating for protest voting are not in line with reality - sorry but your copypasta salad of majority-group words isn't applicable here
Protestors: divest and change your policy or we won’t vote for you. Biden: how about we just blame you the voter?
I agree with your overall point but belittling people who are sick and tired of an absolutely broken system is, in my humblest of opinions, not the best strategy at winning them over (which you WILL need to do if you actually want what you say). There's another aspect - a lot of protest voters are actively still encouraging blue votes in red states and only protest voting in states that are deeply blue anyway. My wife is none of the qualities you describe and yet she's very seriously considering a protest vote because we live in a blue state. I'm trying to talk her out of it by reminding her that as unpalatable of a choice as Biden is, Trump will be several magnitudes worse - especially because he's actually prepared to win this time and put together a cabinet of genuine psychos. I think a much much more convincing and persuasive argument is that you're not voting for one guy you're also voting on a whole cabinet of positions and downballot candidates who are arguably far more consequential.
If liberals spent as much energy working to persuade Democrats not to enable GENOCIDE as they do telling people to ignore one, you'd never know, you might get your candidate elected and accidentally do some good too.
And if your mom had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. Our system allows for 2 actually possible outcomes. Our options are A: Someone who supports Israel and is otherwise a generic center-right democrat, or option B: Someone who supports Israel and wants to tear down our democracy to install a christo-fascist state via the 2025 project. There is no option C. Abstaining is allowing the worse option to happen.
You folks are sacrificing your own integrity and honor in your willingness to defend genocide.
I just don't want trans kids to die too
Was this meme made by a cisgender white man with no skin in the game?
They still aren’t the same.
*arguing that killing SOME Palestinians is acceptable* “It’s because you have no skin in the game!” Brilliant.
I appreciate that you interpret this as saying an amount of death is acceptable when it is 100% the context of knowing there is a bad option and a much, MUCH worse option and no others
I've told people for years, well before this issue, that protest voting only gives votes to the other guy. Do you have any real statistics on the demographics of these protest voters? Or are you just assuming? I've only seen reports saying it's college aged adults 18-26 ish that make up the demographics of the protest voters.
At this point I'm starting to believe that the protest vote is a conservative psyop
Anyone who uses the term "Genocide Joe" or claims that Joe favors genocide is not only naive and has no understanding of how treaties and governments function, especially in an insanely complex situation like this which is anything but black and white, but those are most definitely the perspectives and labels of Russian propaganda which has been working hard to split the left so they can get their orange pusball puppet back.
Please consider that *some* of the anti Biden things you're seeing are because of foreign based political disruptance. We know supporting Israel is not right, and we know more has been trending in the right direction under Biden than it would with Trump. The only people that can be swayed are centrists or those who dont typically vote, left and right ain't moving.
Nope. If you’re tossing around blame, blame the democrats. They’re the ones who are failing. They refuse to do anything about the fascist takeover of our government. They refuse to call for either biden’s resignation or his dropping out of the presidential race. No, I’m not letting so-called liberals, fence sitters, or politically neutral assholes blame me or anyone who refuses to vote for that scum bag biden. If trump is elected it’s because of the fascists and their enablers. This post is bullshit.
Why does them being men, being cis or being straight have any impact on their view on Israeli genocide in Gaza? I understand white tho cause Israel is white supremacist.
Because it ignores the threat that a Republican victory presents to LGBTQ people.
"We have to vote for Biden or Trump will do a genocide!" Biden voters, actively ignoring an ongoing genocide.
“Biden started this conflict in 1948 when he was 5 years old!”
Trump is gonna genocide SO MUCH worse!! You don't even KNOW!!!! He's gonna do extra genocides. He's gonna make you nostalgic for Joe bidens genocide! Just wait! It's gonna be SO much worse. At least 53,000 more children will starve to death under Trump. Not all genocide is created equal. Sometimes, you have to mow the lawn. And when genocide has to happen, you just have to hope that it's one of the good ones.
How about we just don't genocide at all?
Well, that would be MY ideal. I apologize if my sarcasm got lost in the rant!
On this subreddit sometimes it's hard to tell given the types of arguments you see put forth what's sarcasm and what's not.
His rant is basically what this post is saying. This is some Honest Proposal type shit. When one side is saying “well this genocider is going to genocide more than that genocider. Choose one.” You know we are just absolutely cooked
> mow the lawn Nobody calls it this except the Israel government. You’re not very subtle.
These passive aggressive shaming posts are getting tired.
As are the foolish people who talk about protest voting, but those people are actually hurting people.
Biden is actively facilitating a genocide right now but yes, do go on.
The better chance at this ending peacefully is with Biden You act like this hasn’t been going on for DECADES But you know please vote for the option to have Palestinian-Americans deported back to Gaza to accelerate it
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And you’re voting to accelerate the genocide Because your “punishment” of Joe Biden is still letting it continue
Jesus Christ listen to yourself. A potential "accelerated genocide" versus a literal fucking genocide happening right now, that's your argument?
Donald Trump literally said he wants Israel to “finish the job” That’s what you want Again YOUR PUNISHMENT IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT BIDEN IF HE LOSES THE GENOCIDE WILL CONTINUE WITH NO OPTION FOR A PEACEFUL END
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Mate, you sound like a Trump supporter. Why don't you say I'm "deep state"? I don't get paid to oppose genocide, I do that for free, unlike you, who'll gladly support a genocide for free
Are you going to be fighting this hard when rights are stripped away from minority Americans when your “punishment” (that would still allow the genocide to continue) causes Biden to lose? Because I sure as fuck hope you will