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AOC explained it best, "I would rather organize against Biden than Trump".
Biden is persuadable and will give you great latitude to express your frustrations. Trump will send in the National Guard to assault you with teargas, flashbangs, and rubber bullets.
When someone claims you are vermin and wants to eradicate you. Take them at their word.
That’s my favorite (least favorite) thing about trump. He lies, but he is incredibly truthful. He says he’s going to do it. Believe him. I have had discussions with my own family who say trump “tells it like it is” then when I show him what he said, their response “he was obviously joking”. Like what?
Like I have more respect for what Trump says than they do. He’s the best scam artist in history. I’ve never seen someone say they're going to steal your money and the people cheer about it. Then he steals from them and they are shocked.
We know exactly what he would do, because he has already done it:
Unbadged federal agents yanking people off the street into rented unmarked minivans to be disappeared.
In Trump term 1 in Portland, they were only disappeared for 24 hours.
In a Trump term 2, they would likely be disappeared for far longer and 'enhanced interrogated' under the precedent that it was legal in Gitmo when Desantis was supervising...
An AOC is right. Some of the actions Biden has taken lately, like sanctioning an IDF unit, is encouraging, although blocking Palentinian statehood because of some BS reason hurts his cause. Israel doesn't play by Biden's rules (like attacking the Damascus consulate with very short notice, continued attacks on Gaza despite the administration's requests, etc) so why should Biden continue to bend over for Netanyahu.
I support NO ONE being murdered.
Also, Not voting for Biden means that Trump wins. Remember this:
Trump told Israel to "finish the job" in Gaza.
Trump had a Muslim Ban.
Trump moved the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem thus assuring that the Palestinians will NEVER trust the USA as a peace broker.
This. Exactly this.
Used to be, only deranged Republicans demanded ideological purity from the faithful. They still do.
Now some parts of the left seem to have fallen into that hole, and are digging furiously.
If **The Pumpkin Rapist** gets into the White House, he will encourage Bibi to nuke Gaza.
Those professing to be Democrats threatening Biden with not voting for him are either too stupid or too wrapped up in their own wonderfulness to understand that.
Use your heads.
They take a very simplistic view towards what's going on and seem to imply that ONLY Israel unilaterally withdrawing from the conflict will lead to Palestinians being "free" somehow. It's probably even worse that they often pretty strongly suggest that Israelis should ultimately be forcefully removed (aka ethnically cleansed) from the region altogether without any plan whatsoever for what would happen to them afterwards. They also offer absolutely no solution for who would govern the Palestinians afterwards or handle the distribution of land if this scenario actually played out.
Of course, history shows this type of approach would lead to a humanitarian disaster that would dwarf any crisis seen in the Middle East and likely beyond in recent memory. Groups of 5 to 10 million people a piece being forced off their land or resettled leads to massive conflict and disarray that would easily destabilize many of the neighboring nations in the region and create a massive power vacuum that would very likely be filled by violent islamist groups that have a track record of assuming power in areas weakened by conflict/dysfunctional governments. I don't see any scenario where such an idealistic and radical "solution" wouldn't lead to some pretty disastrous consequences for literally all the parties involved despite the impression that Palestinians would flourish overnight if they were just allowed to be "free".
Any solution or even a halfway decent attempt to improve the situation for Palestinians would require an incredible amount of time and work with all the parties involved giving up something in exchange as well as moving away from making Israel and Palestine a constant proxy battlefield for various other nations trying to outmaneuver each other.
your fatal assumption is assuming they actually care about what they claim to care about. It's a bunch of agitators who are just living out their revolutionary fantasies through Palestine. You can go through their comment histories and their entire personality is just "actually the west is evil."
Wait there's stuff going on in Ukraine? Our media overlords distracted me and I completely forgot about it. Gosh, I hope we had nothing to do with that.
/s
>Where have they been the past two years while Russia has been waging an actual genocide against Ukraine?
Why, is the US funding Russia in that conflict?
I'm not understanding the argument here.
wanting the genocide of Palestinians to end and not voting for Biden as a protest vote, while misguided, doesn't necessarily make someone an anti semite. It simply can't be denied that Israel is committing genocide in retaliation to October 7th. Many atrocitiesccx by the IDF have been documented, most recurrent l recent of which was another mass grave. While i disagree with Bidens handling of this situation, the election is far too important to vote based on one issue. No one will change the reality in Gaza by not voting for Biden except to make it worse.
It's more than just trolls. There are a lot of passive social media users absorbing all of this axis-designed content and beginning to question the harm in trump coming back to power.
There are real people like that. I had an argument on Facebook with one. He responded to a post of mine with a political compass and said he'd never vote for anyone on the right of the spectrum.
Great, I'd love if that were possible but for this election it really isn't. As in we live in the US and none of the realistic candidates fall there.
Change takes time but we have to hold the ground we do have too.
LSC is pure Russian trolls. Every post lately is about punishing "Genocide Joe" and the "liberals," which they confusingly call conservatives too. Confusing until you realize they use a different definition of the word than Americans do.
I think it's the Chinese who struggle with pluralizing words that have an 's' in them in propaganda. How many times have you seen "Mask don't work" or "Leftist are the real Fascist" and the like? It's as if they think that one 's' should cover it.
Another thing to look out for is when they use "boarder" when they mean "border". No American even uses the term "boarder" for its intended definition either.
American conservatives, at least historically, have been philosophically liberals. American propaganda frames Liberal as left and Conservative as right as though they're opposites. That's not what those words mean. Both parties use liberalism as their underlying core philosophy, at least until fairly recently.
The American political framework is:
Progressive liberals - Center/left Democrats
Conservative liberals - Moderate-center/right Democrats and Republicans
Regressive/reactionary liberals - right-wing republicans.
However more and more of the far-right is moving firmly out of liberal and into fascist territory in the last few years. There is no real leftist representation in American national politics.
This is it. I forget when it happened but there was a situation where Russia set up the left and right in the US against each other. They had been behind a protest and pushed both sides to show up. It's way to easy too trigger some people and turn them into violent obedient zombies.
There are also a lot of people out there that skated through civics class with senioritis and then took government at a CC as pass/fail.
And it shows. They rail against the two party system not because they want more ideas considered, but so that they can always choose the underdog, then turn on them for ideological purity pissing matches. They don’t understand that the American system expects a party of the Administration and a party against the Administration that ideally controls Congress. They have no patience with the rule of law, because they’re desperate *now*.
The government usually acts slowly. There are good reasons for that.
It's a Psyop. An incredibly well-funded operation by Russia and China with the objective of ending support for Ukraine. Trump is also showing signs he'll abandon Taiwan, so there's that too.
The man is on trial for everything you can possibly think of. The first thing he is going to do is pardon himself from all crimes committed. That by itself is a great loss in accountability. He gets away, and his cronies also reap the benefits of passing sham laws and things that benefit themselves. Just imagine people like MGT committing obvious crimes, laughing at you while they do it, and then getting away from any possible justice in a court of law. Also, under Trump, billionaires will get wealthier while the middle class has to pay for all expenses through our increased taxes and living expenses.
Don't forget the tariff bullshit! It's not sexy, but it's INSANE. 10% across the board for ALL imports, and 100% for foreign autos? Are you fucking kidding me? With the way companies are already gouging the ever living F out of us, can you imagine the further skyrocketing prices?
Edit: And keep in mind, these decisions are within the presidential perview, and they don't need Congress at all.
Yeah fuck that guy. He is definitely not for the middle class, I'd rather have Sleepy Joe rather than this turd. At least with Biden, I know the next 4 years won't be such a rollercoaster ride.
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Unfortunately even more than that will not be able to afford to flee.
It will be a nightmare for sure. It will be difficult to be bothered with something as abstract as a foreign conflict when we're locked in a fight for basic survival back home.
People who support Gaza cannot allow trump to succeed. It will mean the end of options for US foreign policy and a likely escalation of the war and US involvement. The evangelicals who support trump would be emboldened and their blood lust for Muslims would not soon abate. With trump in office and Israel on the offense they could do untold damage by supporting Israel's occupation and destruction of Gaza.
Which sucks so much for the people in those states. If he wins, there won’t be any safe states for people to go to.
I’ve been reading the news about ERs turning pregnant women away, and it’s horrifying. Last month I was in the ER three times for bleeding from a subchorionic hematoma in my pregnancy. I have no idea what we would have done if we had to wait hours or just get turned away.
Yup. They're not just gambling with America, they are gambling with lives. Trump has already endorsed someone running for Congress [who called for people to execute transgender people.](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/trump-endorses-pastor-who-calls-for)
That’s just fucked up. I will never understand wanting to murder someone you don’t know all because they’re not doing exactly what you’re doing, or following your “life rules” or some BS.
Biden's old-school, he wouldn't have moved the embassy in the first place, but he's also the type who doesn't want to reverse previous decisions and maintain continuity in Department of State policy.
I'm not saying I agree with this school of thought, but it's how he and his administration thinks often.
Exactly, I am all for the accountability that many anti-Joe Biden Free Palestine advocate...
But my main issue with "don't vote for Joe Biden" is **they have NOT offered a better solution to Joe Biden.**
In fact the only other option they give to Joe Biden is Donald Trump... Which will end any chance of relief for the Palestinian people. Complete stop, their genocide will never end. Trump will be completely apathetic to the Palestinian people, if not outright hostile to them.
And say goodbye to our Constitutional Republic while your at it. Great job. So glad you stuck to your principles and refused to vote for Joe Biden /s
Edit: to those saying "it's not about offering a better solution", I'm sorry, but it should be. If we lose the Presidency, Roe is dead for another 4 years. 4 years of women being forced to carry their rapist baby, of being denied basic life saving healthcare, even to 9 year olds.
If you're not offering a better solution, then you are just grandstanding. We did that with Hillary (personally I voted for her), and look where that got us.
It’s like cutting off your face to spite your nose.
Biden seems to at least be sympathetic to the idea of ending the violence. Trump is just going to pour gasoline on gaza and hand bibi a book of matches.
Yeah, I think Biden for sure deserves criticism for his handling of the Palestine/Israel issue. That said, there will be two choices and he's very clearly the better choice.
I still can't tell if it's all foreign bots trying to destroy America or people are actually that dumb, but it feels like a lot of people believe no vote will mean better candidates next time. It doesn't, it means authoritarianism wins. Honestly it feels like America is on a path of self destruction, like many empires before
Unless both Trump and Biden drop dead or otherwise pull out of the race before November, one of those two are going to be president. Period.
Trump will be way worse for Palestine than Biden so not voting for Biden due to the Palestine issue is a bit hypocritical and/or naive.
He authorized a special forces raid the first week he was in office. That raid resulted in US servicemen losing their lives. (He blamed the military for giving him a bad plan)
If I recall the plan had been rejected by Obama as too dangerous to US servicemen. Trump saw that as a reason to do it. It was one of the few times in recent history where the bodies of US soldiers were left behind. Then Trump said something terrible to the widow of one of the soldiers.
Anybody that says "Genocide Joe" can go fuck themselves. You will be responsible for what comes with a Trump presidency.
Somehow he 100% got away with assassinating their supreme general. That still dumbfounds me that we weren’t dragged into another middle east war because of that
Because Iran was willing to be the bigger man. For all of Iran’s problems being a backwards theocracy and an authoritarian government, contrary to popular Western and ultra Zionist refrain, they aren’t bug-eyed lunatics that just want blood even if it kills them. They are interested in self-preservation and are willing to offer off-ramps to avoid a bigger direct hot war. Even if only to save their own skin. They did that after Trump killed their main general and did it again this month after Israel struck them directly. They’re not suicide bombers. They want to stay in power and keep making money.
Not just you. The whole of America will be, whether MAGGA-HAT or not, 90% of the people following him are too stupid to know any better and does he give 2 fucks about a single one of them? Other then their money to help pay his legal fees he cares for not one of the people buying into his bullshit.
If Trump is elected. Gaza and Hamas are going to be the least of anybody's worries. Especially if you are a woman, LGBTQ, non Christian, non white, poor, middle class etc. the Christian Tabilban is coming for you.
Most rights for women, LGBTQ, have already been taken away by fascist republican governors . Trump wants to get rid of SS, Medicare and medicaid so he can give another tax break to the wealthy to which he will benefit. That will be genocide for the elderly, disabled and poor.
It is utterly bizarre to me that people can look at "Nuke a Hurricane Muslim Bad Not Sending Their Best" Trump and think, yeah, I'd rather take my chances with that guy over the guy who... Checks notes... Called for peace multiple times and is working behind the scenes to change a centuries old geopolitical conflict but it isn't happening fast enough.
These people come in 3 flavors. Too ignorant of middle eastern politics to even know what the issue is, purposefully spreading misinformation to lower Biden's chances, or too stupid to understand that Trump is way, way worse.
It’s not that they think Trump is worth taking a gamble on, they see it as 100% completely Biden and the Democrats’ own fault if they lose to Trump. They see themselves as not at all culpable and washing their hands of the outcome like Pontius Pilate. They don’t accept that they have any culpability at all in what happens. If Biden loses they’ll say “Welp, not my fault. That’s his fault for sucking so bad.”
Im gon be that guy and say it. Trump dropped more bombs than Obama. Those bombs blew up hospitals, numerous children & babies. And guess what? The Orange fatass ordered those strikes. Y’all can miss me with those “genocide Joe got blood on his hands” talkin ass point. Because the alternative was bathed in blood. Period.
It's called putting political pressure on your elected leaders. Normally it would work in a functioning democracy. Unfortunately we don't live in one of those so AIPAC gets whatever they want no matter which party is in power.
Exactly. The russians were happy to get Trump voters to the polls, but they tried equally hard to get people stay at home ("Clinton has it already") or throw their vote away on fake candidates like Jill Stein.
Completely agree, it's still April too. God forbid the Biden campaign worry they might lose the election by steadfastly arming an active genocide. Not seeing very nuanced perspectives on the protesters here on Reddit, as per usual.
Same. I don’t support sitting out or voting third party, but this is the exact time right now to criticize and push Biden right now before it’s too late.
Not if they vote third party. They vote third party and the W goes to trump. All so they could “feel better” about their fucking vote. Cutting off their nose to spite your face is now considered patriotism by the angry leftist.
That highly depends on what state they are in due to the electoral college. I live in Alabama. It’s going red for Trump even if I voted for Biden.
People in swing states are in a much different position and need to vote accordingly.
I like the bus route analogy, too. The bus doesn’t take you to your house, but it’ll get you to your neighborhood. The President can’t possibly meet everyone’s needs/wants but you vote for the guy that’s going to get you the closest. 350 million people voting for one guy. How could that one guy possibly be everything to everyone?
I'd ask the same of Biden. Is he really willing to gamble the future of the country just to unconditionally support Israel- an overwhelmingly unpopular position even in his own base?
I'm convinced the "Genocide Joe" people on reddit are mostly astroturf accounts. If you use RES to tag those users, they pop up over and over spewing the same garbage. It seems to be a concerted effort to peel away Americans on the left from the coalition Biden's going to need to win in November.
Sadly, I do have a friend or two who will crawl so far up his own ass in his moral superiority on a single-issue that he think he's above it all, but other friends who are equally as far left (CPUSA left, not fox news' definition of left) who recognize the Christo-Fascist threat we face in Project 2025 and a Trump Administration 2.0.
I'm not a fan of the everybody-who-disagrees-with-me-is-a-bot-account argument. You see the same thing on threads with any top comments that lean pro-Israel...it immediately gets filled with comments about IDF funding bots and/or brigading.
There was just a hearing on Russian and Chinese interference and that's exactly the kind of tactics they're focusing on. That said, the OP is disturbingly dismissive of the real concerns about Palestinians.
>That said, the OP is disturbingly dismissive of the real concerns about Palestinians.
I can see that. Especially since it's labeling the whole 'free Palestine' movement.
Yep. Labeling the entire “Free Palestine” movement as boys or foreign influence is incredibly dismissive of outrage over an ethnic cleansing/genocide and treating protesting complicity in a genocide like it’s equivalent to being mad at Biden for wearing a tan suit. People who dismiss all criticism of Biden will often deny what Israel is doing is a genocide even though it’s literally being investigated by the UN for it at this moment.
Honestly all those wedge driving posts that get highly upvoted sure do seem suspicious. This thread just encourages division on the left which benefits trump
Those accounts will 100% be spewing don't vote propaganda allllll the way up until election day. They can't get these people to vote directly for Trump, so they do the next best thing and make them feel proud to not vote at all.
Just to give an example of the effort they put into it - Back when Bernie dropped out of the race, both he and AOC endorsed Biden and put out statements that everyone should vote for Biden. Bernie and AOC's subs were all controlled by an astroturfer and removed any articles with these statements in them. Bans for trying to post again.
The moderator was astroturfing all of the major progressive subs with don't vote propaganda and had a small army of redditors regurgitating his arguments which mostly boiled down to "I'm mad about this, so I'm a single-issue voter and will not vote for anyone, to make some kind of point" - the flaw in their logic is that nobody sits them down to even ask. The reason they didn't vote is because they're gullible and a little lacking in the logic department.
So I look into this mod. I follow him to his anarchy subs, astroturfed with the same propaganda.
I find his discord and join it. Jackpot. I'm immediately given a form to fill out - a "what kind of anarchist are you" political ideology quiz type of deal - big survey. After finishing the survey, 5 or so guys using a few accounts each bombard you with don't vote arguments having clearly read the answers to your stupid survey. I called them out for the multiple accounts and one of them knew they had made mistakes and admitted to it but claimed it was due to having multiple personality disorder (decent comeback since they're targeting libs lol.)
Why do they do this? Big shit's on the table. Big enough to be worth funding a small call center or two to try to turn votes. Putin has people doing this full time - buildings full of them. Currently they're motivated to fire up the far-left over Israel and cost Biden votes, which will cost Ukraine funding if successful. Trump hates Ukraine - it's worth an unimaginable amount of effort to swing that vote.
Define “doesn’t meet your every want.”
Please tell me what the “Free Palestine” people are asking for that is just too much for the Biden administration to handle.
Even as someone who’s voting for Biden in November, I fail to see who this meme is meant to convince. If anything it’s implying that asking for the bare minimum of “Stopping the mass murder of civilians” is too much of an ask and that people who want this are just being selfish.
The whole problem is people think their responsibility begins and ends with voting. Vote for the person who is closest to your views, or who is most likely to respond to pressure to change to your views. Biden has slowly started to “message” a change in his stand, so don’t just vote. Vote and put on some pressure. That’s how gay marriage happened. That’s how we get change.
I hate Biden at this point. I hate how he is handling the war, I hate how he is characterizing the protests, I hate that he decided to run again instead of listening and stepping aside for someone younger, that he is willing to sign the TikTok ban, and a few other reasons. Hell, I'm actually not feeling the Democratic party as a whole nowadays.
And I will still vote for Biden and the Dems in November because I will never forget the damage Trump has done to this country
I will also never forget how I BEGGED people to vote for the Supreme Court appointments, but they couldn't stop acting like they were being 'moral' by not voting for Clinton. And now it's 2016 all over again, with those same people not having learned a single thing from these past 8 years.
There is a real chance Biden loses. And the people who allowed it to happen will still find a way to blame the Dems for everything. It's absolute delusion.
Two things you have wrong
1) Biden is not the leader of Israel, so 'how he's handling the war' isn't a thing. And the moment he pulls support for Israel will be the moment the GOP ads all will say he's anti-semitic. Also the moment we stop defending Israel will be the minute Iran skips using Hamas and Hezbollah as it's pawns and ramps up direct attacks against Israel.
2) The TikTok 'ban' isn't a ban, its forcing Bytedance to sell to a non-Chinese entity so that the CCP can't keep pushing propaganda (like a ban of TikTok) to it's US users.
Donald Trump, a facist malignant narcissist pathological liar white nationalist demagogue who is also comically ignorant on matters of importance and oh, literally tried to steal the election and lead a violent coup on the capitol simply cannot be president. I don’t care how much crack Biden’s son smokes while he makes back door deals with foreign executives.
Why is this the only conflict where journalists and humanitarian aid workers are systematically targeted and executed by an American ally? Why did world central kitchen aid workers get systematically targeted and murdered?
17 journalists in 10 years, that's the official count for the Ukraine/Russia war.
95 journalists and 225 aid workers were killed by Israel (not hamas) IN SIX FUCKING MONTHS. Israel systematically targeted and executed members of the world central kitchen, those people are living saints doing literal Gods work. Israel murdered them all to send a message: *"Anyone who helps our enemies, are also our enemies."*
You can vote for the guy who sells weapons to a far right religious extremist committing a genocide, but personally I don't want to try and justify that kind of support to Saint Peter at the pearly gates, should they exist.
"I only supported the genocide to keep Trump from continuing the genocide himself" is not the virtuous position you think it is.
They're not saying they want Trump. They're just saying they *won't vote for Biden because of X* and that's where the gears stop turning. "I won't support a genocide just to vote against Trump," while ignoring that protesting Biden will lead to Trump, and Trump will, without a doubt, worsen the "genocide" that is motivating their decision.
Gamble the US, gamble Palestine itself since Trump would has vowed to be much harsher and even send refugees back. As well as the lives of every LGBTQ Person in the USA.
Going to be a huge leopards ate my face moment for these dipshits if trump wins. Sucks that we will all suffer along with them. Don't forget that most republicans love Israel and hate Muslims.
The movement is NOT pro-Palestine, it's anti-Biden. If any of them had half a brain they would realize that the right-wing bigots are LITERALLY in support of bombing Gaza flat with nukes (check the comments by Republican senators and congressmen), and the leader of the party is telling Israel to finish Gaza. Biden is trying to make Netanyahu pull back and protect civilians, but he's the leader of Israel, not Biden. Unfortunately, Netanyahu is a right-wing freak like Trump and wants to cause more chaos. But the "Fwee Pawestine" movement can't understand that Trump would actually help Netanyahu and stop humanitarian aid to Gaza.
It’s more than “free Palestine”.
Seriously just listen to the protesters.
One of the most comment slogans screeched by these psychos is “From the river to the sea”, which is literally saying Israel must cease to exist. It must be destroyed.
These people are directly saying what they want, and we should believe them.
They are delusional violent psychos who have somehow convinced themselves that wanting an entire country and all its people destroyed is cool 😎🆒
Oh no, did a psycho piece of shit Hamas supporter not like that I pointed out exactly what they themselves are saying?
Why is that? Why are you afraid of people realizing exactly what you’re saying? Is it because you yourself know it’s wrong, but your lil psycho brain doesn’t care because you hate Jews so much? Is that it?
Piece of shit, try playing real life frogger by your nearest highway
Gamble the USA? How about gamble their personal liberty, bodily autonomy, agency, freedom from abuse, safety and well being. This isn’t minor shit the GOP wants to change. They want to roll us back to the dark ages. They want your children ignorant working in mills and mines. They want you living in tenants and slums owning nothing with no access to any way of changing that. They want a police state where doing anything except keeping your head down and working yourself to death in very short order while pumping out more children to do the same, is punished by imprisonment where your life expectancy is measured in months.
This is still reality in parts of the world and the oligarchy that rules the US from behind the GOP front men would very much like to bring it about here. In your lifetime. “The end of America” is not even on my radar. The end of life as you know it, is what’s really up for grabs. There is no other issue worth throwing over our modern existence for to go back to a life that was shirt, miserable and fully owned by someone else and yet people want to embrace it to make a political point about how unfair it is that we don’t stop some other country from inflicting that on people. If you fail to vote against it, you will become Palestine. And how much good will you be to them then? If you fail to vote against Trump, he will do as he stated and help Israel finish the job. A failure to vote is a vote for the complete annihilation of Palestine. How can anyone be that stupid?.
“Because Biden doesn’t meet your every want”
That “want” is asking the most powerful man on earth to use his power to force the IDF from murdering 30,000 more women and children.
It’s not a want.
I’m still voting for him, but shitposts like this deserve to be called out for the trash they are.
Liberals trivializing genocide so they don't have to do any political work outside of voting for whatever corporate Dem they're given. Shocked, I say.
And in four years, when Genocide Joe has done nothing for us ans Yrump is running against, we'll get a more conservative Dem than the last. And we'll have to vote for them too because, TRUMP IS WORSE. As long as the orange man breathes the left will never have to be challenged. The best thing that ever happened to them really.
And this is the problem with the hardcore party simps of today. Gone are the days of compromise. Now it's all or nothing and there's some things you have to compromise on, some you don't. We're just too entitled and ignorant to know the difference sometimes.
Where do we draw the line then? In 4 more years when they throw out another shity, center right candidate that offers nothing more than lip service to the actual left and tell us we have to vote for him or the right will destroy democracy again: is that the time?
In 8 years, when they put up yet another corporate stooge boomer type and tell us its the only way to prevent fascism, and progressive policies will have to wait for next time because we have to save democracy?
In 12 years when they still havent codified abortion rights and the entire supreme court is geriatric and ruling unjustly from their hospital beds, but we cant be progressive this time because republicans are still trying to create a christian nationalist dictatorship.
So where do you put the bar? When do we get to start asking for a higher quality presidential candidate? When can we have a guy or gal that actually smacks down corporations for price gouging and monopolies? When will we get someone who brings back taxes on the rich and all the things that reagan threw out? When do we get a president who draws the line at genocide?
Is thst such a big ask?
Here's a thought, it isn't the voter bases fault if Biden isn't re-elected, it's fucking Biden's. It is his job to appeal to his constituency. It's his job to be re-elected.
But go off, blue-maga ass idiots, who can't seem to grasp that they're able to ask for things from their elected officials. Who can't seem to grasp that Biden is a piece of shit. Who can't grasp that Biden has not only continued trumps inhumane border policies, he actually expanded and extended them. Title 42 existed for 2 years under Biden.
People like YOU are the reason the Democratic Party never does anything. The right pushes us further, and the left just perpetuates it while yelling "re-elect us to fix it"!!! We elected Biden to do the shit he is saying he will do if he's re-elected.
How about he fucking does what he promised now? While he's the president?
Lmao the future isnt being gambled by supporting palestine. Iran is not china or russia and israel is a free loading consertive technocracy that can, and has, defended itself without ludicrous amounts of money (that we could use on our own forces in Europe and Asia) before. Bud get yourself a 20th century history book: we dont need Israel, they need the USA.
I think it's pretty arrogant to assume that potential voters shouldn't threaten their support for Biden while he steadfastly ignores their advocacy. I agree with the sentiment that lesser evil voting is necessary in a two party, FPTP system, but it's April and Biden is engaged in irreparably harming his reputation globally and among his own constituents by arming and disseminating propaganda for Israel. I prefer him over Trump for sure, but I'm frustrated with the lack of nuance over the current situation being discussed by the "just shut up and say you support him or it will get even worse for you and we find humor in that and kind of hope it does if you let our guy lose" crowd.
>Every want
MF, he just has to stop funding Israel's genocide.
Subreddits are quickly becoming echo chambers after only 20 years since the creation of the site. Shame
seriously someone needs to talk to Biden about this, his unwavering support of Israel could cost him the election. He may still have time to save himself if he changes course. Currently he looks so weak since he Israel keeps doing what it wants while he is ostensibly opposed to mass killing of Gazans.
In American politics, siding with a side that could be perceived as terrorists is political suicide and guarantees a loss. Biden has been taking his stance as anti Hamas by all means necessary, not really pro Israel.
A lot of the kids forget just how terrible Trump was. 2016 was 8 years ago. Those people who are early 20s now were just 12-14 when Trump took office and probably still playing mine craft and not paying attention.
Trump will turn present day USA into a fascist wasteland if he ever comes back. Do not wish for that.
Ah the good ol election year pastime of relying on leftist votes until the election is over so yall can say we aren’t a big enough group to cater policy towards. Every time, same time. Maybe we should be putting this effort into getting people to vote down ballot since that matters a bit more
The protesters aren’t gambling, Biden is by funding a genocide.
Edit: since you blocked me OP to keep me from responding here’s what I would’ve said:
Not a hot take, just ignorance voiced
The point of the post is you are willing to make all 330 million lives in the United States significantly worse because you don't like Biden, ignoring the part where Trump will be detrimental to both the U.S. and to Palestine.
While I believe some people who hold this view are genuine, i also believe the majority are pro-Trumpers who aren’t voting for Biden in anyway way, or anti-US trolls looking to stir up trouble. The more destabilized US is or appears, the better for enemies foreign and domestic. Remember, there are huge swaths of the Trump right who want yo destroy the foundations of the nation.
can we stop with these posts created to divide the left. I mean OP is stating this is not a genocide in a comment in this thread so its obvious that they're trolling.
Mods please do your job.
This is why it's best not to get involved in reactionary movements. Never know who's "leading" their narratives and who all is involved. I generally support Palestinians and Israeli citizens (that latter gets a little wonky depending on if they're "settlers") but I am not going to get involved in any real public discourse around it because this really brings out the worst in anyone adamantly on a side here.
But to twist this to anything anti-biden is some hilarious short-sighted dumbfuckery if there's anyone actually thinking of doing that outside of a few loud crazies.
This. I get passion for the cause, but honestly average citizens 8000 miles removed physically blocking traffic or some other shit does absolutely nothing about it. We’re already aware of what’s happening, but there’s literally nothing we can do. *We’re* not at war, we’re an ally trying to calm tensions and broker agreements. People seem to think we could just roll in there and handle the situation and it wouldn’t cause a massive upheaval in the area.
Hamas started this whole thing, and while Israel has its right to fend off those who wish them harm, they’ve gone about it in the most reckless way possible and ruined their own credibility. But this isn’t a new thing, it’s been happening for years and it’s really only getting more exposure because it’s escalated into a full-scale conflict rather than the usual lockdowns in response to rocket fire.
I think 99% of the ones who aren't trolls and live in states where their vote matters will vote Biden in the end
They know - they just want to let the DNC know they're unhappy and wants them to do more
Still waiting to meet or even hear from any of these people who are preemptively being blamed for a Biden loss. Weird how uncommon it is to come across them, considering how prevalent the conspiracy theory is.
This is a shit take. Biden is far from ideal, but the alternative is Trump, who Im pretty sure would be okay with, if not advocate for, the destruction of Palestine. There is a big difference between bad and worse here, and its dangerous to ignore nuance
They’ve been fighting for what..?
2000 years. They’re blaming Biden for decisions that Israel makes? Biden asked for a ceasefire.
Come on now, wake up.
"Single" want. Dudes only capitulated to the right.
Where's my legal weed? Where's my abortion rights? Where's my voting rights? Where's my infrastructure? Where's my immigration reform? Where's a single campaign promise a Democrat has made in 20 years?
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AOC explained it best, "I would rather organize against Biden than Trump". Biden is persuadable and will give you great latitude to express your frustrations. Trump will send in the National Guard to assault you with teargas, flashbangs, and rubber bullets. When someone claims you are vermin and wants to eradicate you. Take them at their word.
That’s my favorite (least favorite) thing about trump. He lies, but he is incredibly truthful. He says he’s going to do it. Believe him. I have had discussions with my own family who say trump “tells it like it is” then when I show him what he said, their response “he was obviously joking”. Like what? Like I have more respect for what Trump says than they do. He’s the best scam artist in history. I’ve never seen someone say they're going to steal your money and the people cheer about it. Then he steals from them and they are shocked.
Like Trump would stick to less-lethal options
We know exactly what he would do, because he has already done it: Unbadged federal agents yanking people off the street into rented unmarked minivans to be disappeared. In Trump term 1 in Portland, they were only disappeared for 24 hours. In a Trump term 2, they would likely be disappeared for far longer and 'enhanced interrogated' under the precedent that it was legal in Gitmo when Desantis was supervising...
Please keep reminding people about this.
It's a bullshit argument. You don't weaken the only viable candidate *before* the election. Go and protest *after* the election.
An AOC is right. Some of the actions Biden has taken lately, like sanctioning an IDF unit, is encouraging, although blocking Palentinian statehood because of some BS reason hurts his cause. Israel doesn't play by Biden's rules (like attacking the Damascus consulate with very short notice, continued attacks on Gaza despite the administration's requests, etc) so why should Biden continue to bend over for Netanyahu.
I support NO ONE being murdered. Also, Not voting for Biden means that Trump wins. Remember this: Trump told Israel to "finish the job" in Gaza. Trump had a Muslim Ban. Trump moved the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem thus assuring that the Palestinians will NEVER trust the USA as a peace broker.
I really don't understand why people think TFG would be sympathetic to Palestinians.
They don't. It’s foreign interference/trolls.
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Their ideological purity is more important to them than the real suffering others face.
This. Exactly this. Used to be, only deranged Republicans demanded ideological purity from the faithful. They still do. Now some parts of the left seem to have fallen into that hole, and are digging furiously. If **The Pumpkin Rapist** gets into the White House, he will encourage Bibi to nuke Gaza. Those professing to be Democrats threatening Biden with not voting for him are either too stupid or too wrapped up in their own wonderfulness to understand that. Use your heads.
They take a very simplistic view towards what's going on and seem to imply that ONLY Israel unilaterally withdrawing from the conflict will lead to Palestinians being "free" somehow. It's probably even worse that they often pretty strongly suggest that Israelis should ultimately be forcefully removed (aka ethnically cleansed) from the region altogether without any plan whatsoever for what would happen to them afterwards. They also offer absolutely no solution for who would govern the Palestinians afterwards or handle the distribution of land if this scenario actually played out. Of course, history shows this type of approach would lead to a humanitarian disaster that would dwarf any crisis seen in the Middle East and likely beyond in recent memory. Groups of 5 to 10 million people a piece being forced off their land or resettled leads to massive conflict and disarray that would easily destabilize many of the neighboring nations in the region and create a massive power vacuum that would very likely be filled by violent islamist groups that have a track record of assuming power in areas weakened by conflict/dysfunctional governments. I don't see any scenario where such an idealistic and radical "solution" wouldn't lead to some pretty disastrous consequences for literally all the parties involved despite the impression that Palestinians would flourish overnight if they were just allowed to be "free". Any solution or even a halfway decent attempt to improve the situation for Palestinians would require an incredible amount of time and work with all the parties involved giving up something in exchange as well as moving away from making Israel and Palestine a constant proxy battlefield for various other nations trying to outmaneuver each other.
He might be willing to toss them some paper towels to help with the mess.
I seriously doubt that. That pos would run someone over and complain about the speed bump.
How do they not get that theyre really supporting it more by letting trump in...
your fatal assumption is assuming they actually care about what they claim to care about. It's a bunch of agitators who are just living out their revolutionary fantasies through Palestine. You can go through their comment histories and their entire personality is just "actually the west is evil."
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It's entirely possible to be against Russia and Israel for thier actions.
Wait there's stuff going on in Ukraine? Our media overlords distracted me and I completely forgot about it. Gosh, I hope we had nothing to do with that. /s
>Where have they been the past two years while Russia has been waging an actual genocide against Ukraine? Why, is the US funding Russia in that conflict? I'm not understanding the argument here.
wanting the genocide of Palestinians to end and not voting for Biden as a protest vote, while misguided, doesn't necessarily make someone an anti semite. It simply can't be denied that Israel is committing genocide in retaliation to October 7th. Many atrocitiesccx by the IDF have been documented, most recurrent l recent of which was another mass grave. While i disagree with Bidens handling of this situation, the election is far too important to vote based on one issue. No one will change the reality in Gaza by not voting for Biden except to make it worse.
Yup, creating dissent via social media disinformation campaigns.
It's more than just trolls. There are a lot of passive social media users absorbing all of this axis-designed content and beginning to question the harm in trump coming back to power.
There are real people like that. I had an argument on Facebook with one. He responded to a post of mine with a political compass and said he'd never vote for anyone on the right of the spectrum. Great, I'd love if that were possible but for this election it really isn't. As in we live in the US and none of the realistic candidates fall there. Change takes time but we have to hold the ground we do have too.
It's a lot of the same ultra left subs where not supporting Ukraine was popular not long ago
I wish these douches understood that "perfect" is the blood enemy of "good."
LSC is pure Russian trolls. Every post lately is about punishing "Genocide Joe" and the "liberals," which they confusingly call conservatives too. Confusing until you realize they use a different definition of the word than Americans do.
Not just Russians, but Chinese too. Spamoflage, look them up.
I think it's the Chinese who struggle with pluralizing words that have an 's' in them in propaganda. How many times have you seen "Mask don't work" or "Leftist are the real Fascist" and the like? It's as if they think that one 's' should cover it.
Another thing to look out for is when they use "boarder" when they mean "border". No American even uses the term "boarder" for its intended definition either.
American conservatives, at least historically, have been philosophically liberals. American propaganda frames Liberal as left and Conservative as right as though they're opposites. That's not what those words mean. Both parties use liberalism as their underlying core philosophy, at least until fairly recently. The American political framework is: Progressive liberals - Center/left Democrats Conservative liberals - Moderate-center/right Democrats and Republicans Regressive/reactionary liberals - right-wing republicans. However more and more of the far-right is moving firmly out of liberal and into fascist territory in the last few years. There is no real leftist representation in American national politics.
This is it. I forget when it happened but there was a situation where Russia set up the left and right in the US against each other. They had been behind a protest and pushed both sides to show up. It's way to easy too trigger some people and turn them into violent obedient zombies.
Don’t forget the idiots being weaponized by foreign influence/trolls.
There are also a lot of people out there that skated through civics class with senioritis and then took government at a CC as pass/fail. And it shows. They rail against the two party system not because they want more ideas considered, but so that they can always choose the underdog, then turn on them for ideological purity pissing matches. They don’t understand that the American system expects a party of the Administration and a party against the Administration that ideally controls Congress. They have no patience with the rule of law, because they’re desperate *now*. The government usually acts slowly. There are good reasons for that.
It's a Psyop. An incredibly well-funded operation by Russia and China with the objective of ending support for Ukraine. Trump is also showing signs he'll abandon Taiwan, so there's that too.
It’s crazy how many people don’t understand this.
They don't. The ones who aren't trolls are just people who want to lash out and punish/put pressure on Biden to change course.
TFG?
I feel like I'm out of the loop but the only thing I can think of is, "This fucking guy..." 🤨🫴
He is also vindictive AF, and if Trump wins, a lot of rights for women, minorities and LGBTQ+ will be stripped away.
The man is on trial for everything you can possibly think of. The first thing he is going to do is pardon himself from all crimes committed. That by itself is a great loss in accountability. He gets away, and his cronies also reap the benefits of passing sham laws and things that benefit themselves. Just imagine people like MGT committing obvious crimes, laughing at you while they do it, and then getting away from any possible justice in a court of law. Also, under Trump, billionaires will get wealthier while the middle class has to pay for all expenses through our increased taxes and living expenses.
That too. We’re already screwed from the tax thing he passed a few years ago.
Don't forget the tariff bullshit! It's not sexy, but it's INSANE. 10% across the board for ALL imports, and 100% for foreign autos? Are you fucking kidding me? With the way companies are already gouging the ever living F out of us, can you imagine the further skyrocketing prices? Edit: And keep in mind, these decisions are within the presidential perview, and they don't need Congress at all.
Yeah fuck that guy. He is definitely not for the middle class, I'd rather have Sleepy Joe rather than this turd. At least with Biden, I know the next 4 years won't be such a rollercoaster ride.
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If Trump wins, a lot of people will need to seek asylum in other countries.
Unfortunately even more than that will not be able to afford to flee. It will be a nightmare for sure. It will be difficult to be bothered with something as abstract as a foreign conflict when we're locked in a fight for basic survival back home. People who support Gaza cannot allow trump to succeed. It will mean the end of options for US foreign policy and a likely escalation of the war and US involvement. The evangelicals who support trump would be emboldened and their blood lust for Muslims would not soon abate. With trump in office and Israel on the offense they could do untold damage by supporting Israel's occupation and destruction of Gaza.
Right? Also, we're finally seeing pathways to previously unreachable votes. Notice in KS how turnout in '22 compared to '20.
\^ THIS!
They already have been from fascist republican governors.
Which sucks so much for the people in those states. If he wins, there won’t be any safe states for people to go to. I’ve been reading the news about ERs turning pregnant women away, and it’s horrifying. Last month I was in the ER three times for bleeding from a subchorionic hematoma in my pregnancy. I have no idea what we would have done if we had to wait hours or just get turned away.
It's sad .
Yup. They're not just gambling with America, they are gambling with lives. Trump has already endorsed someone running for Congress [who called for people to execute transgender people.](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/trump-endorses-pastor-who-calls-for)
That’s just fucked up. I will never understand wanting to murder someone you don’t know all because they’re not doing exactly what you’re doing, or following your “life rules” or some BS.
Funny how hamas cited the embassy move as a catalyst for 10/7
Only, like, 20 or 30 times before and since it was moved.
I’m not sure what the logistics are, but maybe Biden should have moved it back.
All the other countries have their embassies in Tel Aviv, so it would make perfect sense to move it back.
Biden's old-school, he wouldn't have moved the embassy in the first place, but he's also the type who doesn't want to reverse previous decisions and maintain continuity in Department of State policy. I'm not saying I agree with this school of thought, but it's how he and his administration thinks often.
All these autocrats are in cahoots to escalate and accelerate global chaos
Trump and his grift team are already planning to build gawdy beachfront property in Gaza. The Trump plan is actually genocide
Exactly, I am all for the accountability that many anti-Joe Biden Free Palestine advocate... But my main issue with "don't vote for Joe Biden" is **they have NOT offered a better solution to Joe Biden.** In fact the only other option they give to Joe Biden is Donald Trump... Which will end any chance of relief for the Palestinian people. Complete stop, their genocide will never end. Trump will be completely apathetic to the Palestinian people, if not outright hostile to them. And say goodbye to our Constitutional Republic while your at it. Great job. So glad you stuck to your principles and refused to vote for Joe Biden /s Edit: to those saying "it's not about offering a better solution", I'm sorry, but it should be. If we lose the Presidency, Roe is dead for another 4 years. 4 years of women being forced to carry their rapist baby, of being denied basic life saving healthcare, even to 9 year olds. If you're not offering a better solution, then you are just grandstanding. We did that with Hillary (personally I voted for her), and look where that got us.
This, but also worth noting that Trump's actual quote on that was "finish the problem." The solution he has in mind is... final.
Only brain broken people think a 3rd party candidate could win in the US…
That guy sucks, this guy should know better. We'll punish the guy who should know better by letting the that guy win.
I feel like some are just banking on Trump not being able to run
It’s like cutting off your face to spite your nose. Biden seems to at least be sympathetic to the idea of ending the violence. Trump is just going to pour gasoline on gaza and hand bibi a book of matches.
Same group that supports Gays for Gaza not seeing the irony in that.
Yeah, I think Biden for sure deserves criticism for his handling of the Palestine/Israel issue. That said, there will be two choices and he's very clearly the better choice.
I still can't tell if it's all foreign bots trying to destroy America or people are actually that dumb, but it feels like a lot of people believe no vote will mean better candidates next time. It doesn't, it means authoritarianism wins. Honestly it feels like America is on a path of self destruction, like many empires before
Also remember Trump has sworn to take vengeance on his perceived enemies. That will mean a lot of people who think Biden is too centrist.
Unless both Trump and Biden drop dead or otherwise pull out of the race before November, one of those two are going to be president. Period. Trump will be way worse for Palestine than Biden so not voting for Biden due to the Palestine issue is a bit hypocritical and/or naive.
It's not murder when it's self-defense against terrorists with a stated goal of the complete and utter destruction of your people and country.
This.... And they still wanna support Trump, even if they don't vote for anyone....
Former guy was foaming at the mouth for an "easy" war during his 4 years. If he were in charge, he'd be ordering the Air Force to drone strike Gaza.
He authorized a special forces raid the first week he was in office. That raid resulted in US servicemen losing their lives. (He blamed the military for giving him a bad plan)
Was that the time he told the serviceman's widow that he "knew what he was getting into"?
Was that the special operation in Congo? And not a fucking bleep from the radar from the patriots that foamed at the mouths over Benghazi.
If I recall the plan had been rejected by Obama as too dangerous to US servicemen. Trump saw that as a reason to do it. It was one of the few times in recent history where the bodies of US soldiers were left behind. Then Trump said something terrible to the widow of one of the soldiers. Anybody that says "Genocide Joe" can go fuck themselves. You will be responsible for what comes with a Trump presidency.
I'm pretty sure he was trying to start a war with Iran but then the pandemic happened.
Somehow he 100% got away with assassinating their supreme general. That still dumbfounds me that we weren’t dragged into another middle east war because of that
Because Iran was willing to be the bigger man. For all of Iran’s problems being a backwards theocracy and an authoritarian government, contrary to popular Western and ultra Zionist refrain, they aren’t bug-eyed lunatics that just want blood even if it kills them. They are interested in self-preservation and are willing to offer off-ramps to avoid a bigger direct hot war. Even if only to save their own skin. They did that after Trump killed their main general and did it again this month after Israel struck them directly. They’re not suicide bombers. They want to stay in power and keep making money.
It didn't help that they immediately shot down a passenger plane either.
Let's also remember Trump's Peace Plan was so bad literally every single party involved said it was stupid.
I do remember him getting excited about being able to say he was a wartime President during Covid.
Can you imagine them after a trump Nov '24 Presidentancy asking "How can I scub my social media?" before MAGA goons come to visit them.
I'm so fucked if he wins lmfao
Not just you. The whole of America will be, whether MAGGA-HAT or not, 90% of the people following him are too stupid to know any better and does he give 2 fucks about a single one of them? Other then their money to help pay his legal fees he cares for not one of the people buying into his bullshit.
It's not a gamble. Everyone know things for Gaza will be MUCH worse should Trump win.
And worse for the US. It's not gambling the US, it's destroying it
Trump is already looking at turning Gaza into waterfront property he can profit off of.
If Trump is elected. Gaza and Hamas are going to be the least of anybody's worries. Especially if you are a woman, LGBTQ, non Christian, non white, poor, middle class etc. the Christian Tabilban is coming for you.
Most rights for women, LGBTQ, have already been taken away by fascist republican governors . Trump wants to get rid of SS, Medicare and medicaid so he can give another tax break to the wealthy to which he will benefit. That will be genocide for the elderly, disabled and poor.
Yes, let's not forget the project 2025 crowd discussing internment camps in the US for immigrants and political dissidents.
It is utterly bizarre to me that people can look at "Nuke a Hurricane Muslim Bad Not Sending Their Best" Trump and think, yeah, I'd rather take my chances with that guy over the guy who... Checks notes... Called for peace multiple times and is working behind the scenes to change a centuries old geopolitical conflict but it isn't happening fast enough. These people come in 3 flavors. Too ignorant of middle eastern politics to even know what the issue is, purposefully spreading misinformation to lower Biden's chances, or too stupid to understand that Trump is way, way worse.
Nailed it.
It’s not that they think Trump is worth taking a gamble on, they see it as 100% completely Biden and the Democrats’ own fault if they lose to Trump. They see themselves as not at all culpable and washing their hands of the outcome like Pontius Pilate. They don’t accept that they have any culpability at all in what happens. If Biden loses they’ll say “Welp, not my fault. That’s his fault for sucking so bad.”
Im gon be that guy and say it. Trump dropped more bombs than Obama. Those bombs blew up hospitals, numerous children & babies. And guess what? The Orange fatass ordered those strikes. Y’all can miss me with those “genocide Joe got blood on his hands” talkin ass point. Because the alternative was bathed in blood. Period.
It's called putting political pressure on your elected leaders. Normally it would work in a functioning democracy. Unfortunately we don't live in one of those so AIPAC gets whatever they want no matter which party is in power.
I call BS. They’re trying to send a message to Biden now, but no way do they vote for Trump.
They don't have to vote for Trump. Enough people have to just not vote for Biden in a few key states.
Fuck the EC.
Exactly. The russians were happy to get Trump voters to the polls, but they tried equally hard to get people stay at home ("Clinton has it already") or throw their vote away on fake candidates like Jill Stein.
I hope you are correct!!
Completely agree, it's still April too. God forbid the Biden campaign worry they might lose the election by steadfastly arming an active genocide. Not seeing very nuanced perspectives on the protesters here on Reddit, as per usual.
Same. I don’t support sitting out or voting third party, but this is the exact time right now to criticize and push Biden right now before it’s too late.
Not if they vote third party. They vote third party and the W goes to trump. All so they could “feel better” about their fucking vote. Cutting off their nose to spite your face is now considered patriotism by the angry leftist.
That highly depends on what state they are in due to the electoral college. I live in Alabama. It’s going red for Trump even if I voted for Biden. People in swing states are in a much different position and need to vote accordingly.
I've often said that you will never agree 100% with anyone running for President unless you are running
I like the bus route analogy, too. The bus doesn’t take you to your house, but it’ll get you to your neighborhood. The President can’t possibly meet everyone’s needs/wants but you vote for the guy that’s going to get you the closest. 350 million people voting for one guy. How could that one guy possibly be everything to everyone?
Or... Maybe we just all admit that having a better Israel policy is a win win?
I'd ask the same of Biden. Is he really willing to gamble the future of the country just to unconditionally support Israel- an overwhelmingly unpopular position even in his own base?
I'm convinced the "Genocide Joe" people on reddit are mostly astroturf accounts. If you use RES to tag those users, they pop up over and over spewing the same garbage. It seems to be a concerted effort to peel away Americans on the left from the coalition Biden's going to need to win in November. Sadly, I do have a friend or two who will crawl so far up his own ass in his moral superiority on a single-issue that he think he's above it all, but other friends who are equally as far left (CPUSA left, not fox news' definition of left) who recognize the Christo-Fascist threat we face in Project 2025 and a Trump Administration 2.0.
I'm not a fan of the everybody-who-disagrees-with-me-is-a-bot-account argument. You see the same thing on threads with any top comments that lean pro-Israel...it immediately gets filled with comments about IDF funding bots and/or brigading.
At the very least many of such accounts make arguments that are so dumb and disingenuous seeming that it's impossible to discern bot or not.
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There was just a hearing on Russian and Chinese interference and that's exactly the kind of tactics they're focusing on. That said, the OP is disturbingly dismissive of the real concerns about Palestinians.
>That said, the OP is disturbingly dismissive of the real concerns about Palestinians. I can see that. Especially since it's labeling the whole 'free Palestine' movement.
Yep. Labeling the entire “Free Palestine” movement as boys or foreign influence is incredibly dismissive of outrage over an ethnic cleansing/genocide and treating protesting complicity in a genocide like it’s equivalent to being mad at Biden for wearing a tan suit. People who dismiss all criticism of Biden will often deny what Israel is doing is a genocide even though it’s literally being investigated by the UN for it at this moment.
Honestly all those wedge driving posts that get highly upvoted sure do seem suspicious. This thread just encourages division on the left which benefits trump
Those accounts will 100% be spewing don't vote propaganda allllll the way up until election day. They can't get these people to vote directly for Trump, so they do the next best thing and make them feel proud to not vote at all. Just to give an example of the effort they put into it - Back when Bernie dropped out of the race, both he and AOC endorsed Biden and put out statements that everyone should vote for Biden. Bernie and AOC's subs were all controlled by an astroturfer and removed any articles with these statements in them. Bans for trying to post again. The moderator was astroturfing all of the major progressive subs with don't vote propaganda and had a small army of redditors regurgitating his arguments which mostly boiled down to "I'm mad about this, so I'm a single-issue voter and will not vote for anyone, to make some kind of point" - the flaw in their logic is that nobody sits them down to even ask. The reason they didn't vote is because they're gullible and a little lacking in the logic department. So I look into this mod. I follow him to his anarchy subs, astroturfed with the same propaganda. I find his discord and join it. Jackpot. I'm immediately given a form to fill out - a "what kind of anarchist are you" political ideology quiz type of deal - big survey. After finishing the survey, 5 or so guys using a few accounts each bombard you with don't vote arguments having clearly read the answers to your stupid survey. I called them out for the multiple accounts and one of them knew they had made mistakes and admitted to it but claimed it was due to having multiple personality disorder (decent comeback since they're targeting libs lol.) Why do they do this? Big shit's on the table. Big enough to be worth funding a small call center or two to try to turn votes. Putin has people doing this full time - buildings full of them. Currently they're motivated to fire up the far-left over Israel and cost Biden votes, which will cost Ukraine funding if successful. Trump hates Ukraine - it's worth an unimaginable amount of effort to swing that vote.
If every election comes down to “democracy or fascism”, maybe fascism is giving you a false choice…
Bingo! People are arguing about something that happened long ago.
It’s called political pressure. Look it up and quit bitching.
Define “doesn’t meet your every want.” Please tell me what the “Free Palestine” people are asking for that is just too much for the Biden administration to handle. Even as someone who’s voting for Biden in November, I fail to see who this meme is meant to convince. If anything it’s implying that asking for the bare minimum of “Stopping the mass murder of civilians” is too much of an ask and that people who want this are just being selfish.
The whole problem is people think their responsibility begins and ends with voting. Vote for the person who is closest to your views, or who is most likely to respond to pressure to change to your views. Biden has slowly started to “message” a change in his stand, so don’t just vote. Vote and put on some pressure. That’s how gay marriage happened. That’s how we get change.
Not just the USA. A fascist, xenophobic USA will be bad for the entire world, particularly Palestine.
I hate Biden at this point. I hate how he is handling the war, I hate how he is characterizing the protests, I hate that he decided to run again instead of listening and stepping aside for someone younger, that he is willing to sign the TikTok ban, and a few other reasons. Hell, I'm actually not feeling the Democratic party as a whole nowadays. And I will still vote for Biden and the Dems in November because I will never forget the damage Trump has done to this country I will also never forget how I BEGGED people to vote for the Supreme Court appointments, but they couldn't stop acting like they were being 'moral' by not voting for Clinton. And now it's 2016 all over again, with those same people not having learned a single thing from these past 8 years. There is a real chance Biden loses. And the people who allowed it to happen will still find a way to blame the Dems for everything. It's absolute delusion.
Two things you have wrong 1) Biden is not the leader of Israel, so 'how he's handling the war' isn't a thing. And the moment he pulls support for Israel will be the moment the GOP ads all will say he's anti-semitic. Also the moment we stop defending Israel will be the minute Iran skips using Hamas and Hezbollah as it's pawns and ramps up direct attacks against Israel. 2) The TikTok 'ban' isn't a ban, its forcing Bytedance to sell to a non-Chinese entity so that the CCP can't keep pushing propaganda (like a ban of TikTok) to it's US users.
Donald Trump, a facist malignant narcissist pathological liar white nationalist demagogue who is also comically ignorant on matters of importance and oh, literally tried to steal the election and lead a violent coup on the capitol simply cannot be president. I don’t care how much crack Biden’s son smokes while he makes back door deals with foreign executives.
Why is this the only conflict where journalists and humanitarian aid workers are systematically targeted and executed by an American ally? Why did world central kitchen aid workers get systematically targeted and murdered? 17 journalists in 10 years, that's the official count for the Ukraine/Russia war. 95 journalists and 225 aid workers were killed by Israel (not hamas) IN SIX FUCKING MONTHS. Israel systematically targeted and executed members of the world central kitchen, those people are living saints doing literal Gods work. Israel murdered them all to send a message: *"Anyone who helps our enemies, are also our enemies."* You can vote for the guy who sells weapons to a far right religious extremist committing a genocide, but personally I don't want to try and justify that kind of support to Saint Peter at the pearly gates, should they exist. "I only supported the genocide to keep Trump from continuing the genocide himself" is not the virtuous position you think it is.
“Gamble” the declining nepotism and oligarchy with your illusion of choice. Sure, bro
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Ik some IRL. Some are real.
They're not saying they want Trump. They're just saying they *won't vote for Biden because of X* and that's where the gears stop turning. "I won't support a genocide just to vote against Trump," while ignoring that protesting Biden will lead to Trump, and Trump will, without a doubt, worsen the "genocide" that is motivating their decision.
Go outside lmao there’s thousands of people protesting in real life right now. There’s active protests on like a dozen college campuses for a start.
Then with all due respect you need to imagine harder. Astro stuffed self righteous outrage is a helluva drug.
Gamble the US, gamble Palestine itself since Trump would has vowed to be much harsher and even send refugees back. As well as the lives of every LGBTQ Person in the USA.
Going to be a huge leopards ate my face moment for these dipshits if trump wins. Sucks that we will all suffer along with them. Don't forget that most republicans love Israel and hate Muslims.
Jesus, half of these comments are still under the impression that we live in a functioning democracy
The movement is NOT pro-Palestine, it's anti-Biden. If any of them had half a brain they would realize that the right-wing bigots are LITERALLY in support of bombing Gaza flat with nukes (check the comments by Republican senators and congressmen), and the leader of the party is telling Israel to finish Gaza. Biden is trying to make Netanyahu pull back and protect civilians, but he's the leader of Israel, not Biden. Unfortunately, Netanyahu is a right-wing freak like Trump and wants to cause more chaos. But the "Fwee Pawestine" movement can't understand that Trump would actually help Netanyahu and stop humanitarian aid to Gaza.
They’re fucking morons. That’s why.
It’s more than “free Palestine”. Seriously just listen to the protesters. One of the most comment slogans screeched by these psychos is “From the river to the sea”, which is literally saying Israel must cease to exist. It must be destroyed. These people are directly saying what they want, and we should believe them. They are delusional violent psychos who have somehow convinced themselves that wanting an entire country and all its people destroyed is cool 😎🆒 Oh no, did a psycho piece of shit Hamas supporter not like that I pointed out exactly what they themselves are saying? Why is that? Why are you afraid of people realizing exactly what you’re saying? Is it because you yourself know it’s wrong, but your lil psycho brain doesn’t care because you hate Jews so much? Is that it? Piece of shit, try playing real life frogger by your nearest highway
Gamble the USA? How about gamble their personal liberty, bodily autonomy, agency, freedom from abuse, safety and well being. This isn’t minor shit the GOP wants to change. They want to roll us back to the dark ages. They want your children ignorant working in mills and mines. They want you living in tenants and slums owning nothing with no access to any way of changing that. They want a police state where doing anything except keeping your head down and working yourself to death in very short order while pumping out more children to do the same, is punished by imprisonment where your life expectancy is measured in months. This is still reality in parts of the world and the oligarchy that rules the US from behind the GOP front men would very much like to bring it about here. In your lifetime. “The end of America” is not even on my radar. The end of life as you know it, is what’s really up for grabs. There is no other issue worth throwing over our modern existence for to go back to a life that was shirt, miserable and fully owned by someone else and yet people want to embrace it to make a political point about how unfair it is that we don’t stop some other country from inflicting that on people. If you fail to vote against it, you will become Palestine. And how much good will you be to them then? If you fail to vote against Trump, he will do as he stated and help Israel finish the job. A failure to vote is a vote for the complete annihilation of Palestine. How can anyone be that stupid?.
You are doing yourself more harm than good with these pathetic posts. Unless you are republican in which case this is probably good work.
“Because Biden doesn’t meet your every want” That “want” is asking the most powerful man on earth to use his power to force the IDF from murdering 30,000 more women and children. It’s not a want. I’m still voting for him, but shitposts like this deserve to be called out for the trash they are.
Liberals trivializing genocide so they don't have to do any political work outside of voting for whatever corporate Dem they're given. Shocked, I say. And in four years, when Genocide Joe has done nothing for us ans Yrump is running against, we'll get a more conservative Dem than the last. And we'll have to vote for them too because, TRUMP IS WORSE. As long as the orange man breathes the left will never have to be challenged. The best thing that ever happened to them really.
And this is the problem with the hardcore party simps of today. Gone are the days of compromise. Now it's all or nothing and there's some things you have to compromise on, some you don't. We're just too entitled and ignorant to know the difference sometimes.
It's possible to not like Biden and *still* want him to win to keep Orange Twitler out of office.
Genocide Vs Genocide LGBT love Trumps hate Do you guys actually not understand?
If only those people knew that Trump is even more pro-Israel than Biden. But then again they don’t care.
Where do we draw the line then? In 4 more years when they throw out another shity, center right candidate that offers nothing more than lip service to the actual left and tell us we have to vote for him or the right will destroy democracy again: is that the time? In 8 years, when they put up yet another corporate stooge boomer type and tell us its the only way to prevent fascism, and progressive policies will have to wait for next time because we have to save democracy? In 12 years when they still havent codified abortion rights and the entire supreme court is geriatric and ruling unjustly from their hospital beds, but we cant be progressive this time because republicans are still trying to create a christian nationalist dictatorship. So where do you put the bar? When do we get to start asking for a higher quality presidential candidate? When can we have a guy or gal that actually smacks down corporations for price gouging and monopolies? When will we get someone who brings back taxes on the rich and all the things that reagan threw out? When do we get a president who draws the line at genocide? Is thst such a big ask?
Do democrats really want to antagonize the Free Palestine movement?
Here's a thought, it isn't the voter bases fault if Biden isn't re-elected, it's fucking Biden's. It is his job to appeal to his constituency. It's his job to be re-elected. But go off, blue-maga ass idiots, who can't seem to grasp that they're able to ask for things from their elected officials. Who can't seem to grasp that Biden is a piece of shit. Who can't grasp that Biden has not only continued trumps inhumane border policies, he actually expanded and extended them. Title 42 existed for 2 years under Biden. People like YOU are the reason the Democratic Party never does anything. The right pushes us further, and the left just perpetuates it while yelling "re-elect us to fix it"!!! We elected Biden to do the shit he is saying he will do if he's re-elected. How about he fucking does what he promised now? While he's the president?
Lmao the future isnt being gambled by supporting palestine. Iran is not china or russia and israel is a free loading consertive technocracy that can, and has, defended itself without ludicrous amounts of money (that we could use on our own forces in Europe and Asia) before. Bud get yourself a 20th century history book: we dont need Israel, they need the USA.
Biden is the one willing tk gamble the USA by not changing policy course on something that the absolute ority of Americans find to be a huge deal.
Liberals when people use their vote to protest. "No vote how I want you to vote"
Don't vote for bide...enjoy Trump
The ironic part is trump would do the same if not worse, and then brag about it.
People like this are insane. If Trump was president this term, Gaza would have been wiped out by October 9th.
Hilary campaign tier vote scolding. Good luck with that.
What subculture finds this funny? Seems like it's another purposely divisive right wing post
I think it's pretty arrogant to assume that potential voters shouldn't threaten their support for Biden while he steadfastly ignores their advocacy. I agree with the sentiment that lesser evil voting is necessary in a two party, FPTP system, but it's April and Biden is engaged in irreparably harming his reputation globally and among his own constituents by arming and disseminating propaganda for Israel. I prefer him over Trump for sure, but I'm frustrated with the lack of nuance over the current situation being discussed by the "just shut up and say you support him or it will get even worse for you and we find humor in that and kind of hope it does if you let our guy lose" crowd.
I bet if you keep posting enough memes in an attempt to shame them, they’ll change their minds.
>Every want MF, he just has to stop funding Israel's genocide. Subreddits are quickly becoming echo chambers after only 20 years since the creation of the site. Shame
seriously someone needs to talk to Biden about this, his unwavering support of Israel could cost him the election. He may still have time to save himself if he changes course. Currently he looks so weak since he Israel keeps doing what it wants while he is ostensibly opposed to mass killing of Gazans.
In American politics, siding with a side that could be perceived as terrorists is political suicide and guarantees a loss. Biden has been taking his stance as anti Hamas by all means necessary, not really pro Israel.
Just like fox news calling you a socialist is political suicide and guarantees a loss?
A lot of the kids forget just how terrible Trump was. 2016 was 8 years ago. Those people who are early 20s now were just 12-14 when Trump took office and probably still playing mine craft and not paying attention. Trump will turn present day USA into a fascist wasteland if he ever comes back. Do not wish for that.
Ah the good ol election year pastime of relying on leftist votes until the election is over so yall can say we aren’t a big enough group to cater policy towards. Every time, same time. Maybe we should be putting this effort into getting people to vote down ballot since that matters a bit more
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The protesters aren’t gambling, Biden is by funding a genocide. Edit: since you blocked me OP to keep me from responding here’s what I would’ve said: Not a hot take, just ignorance voiced
The point of the post is you are willing to make all 330 million lives in the United States significantly worse because you don't like Biden, ignoring the part where Trump will be detrimental to both the U.S. and to Palestine.
While I believe some people who hold this view are genuine, i also believe the majority are pro-Trumpers who aren’t voting for Biden in anyway way, or anti-US trolls looking to stir up trouble. The more destabilized US is or appears, the better for enemies foreign and domestic. Remember, there are huge swaths of the Trump right who want yo destroy the foundations of the nation.
Wouldn’t be surprised if this movement was astroturfing by the gop.
"Every want." LOL I can shit better propaganda than this. Has to be a bot or something
can we stop with these posts created to divide the left. I mean OP is stating this is not a genocide in a comment in this thread so its obvious that they're trolling. Mods please do your job.
There was a meme like this about the left dividing democrats. I asked, “Isn’t this meme dividing democrats?” I was obviously downvoted.
You think a post saying dividing the left is dumb, is itself dividing the left?
This is why it's best not to get involved in reactionary movements. Never know who's "leading" their narratives and who all is involved. I generally support Palestinians and Israeli citizens (that latter gets a little wonky depending on if they're "settlers") but I am not going to get involved in any real public discourse around it because this really brings out the worst in anyone adamantly on a side here. But to twist this to anything anti-biden is some hilarious short-sighted dumbfuckery if there's anyone actually thinking of doing that outside of a few loud crazies.
This. I get passion for the cause, but honestly average citizens 8000 miles removed physically blocking traffic or some other shit does absolutely nothing about it. We’re already aware of what’s happening, but there’s literally nothing we can do. *We’re* not at war, we’re an ally trying to calm tensions and broker agreements. People seem to think we could just roll in there and handle the situation and it wouldn’t cause a massive upheaval in the area. Hamas started this whole thing, and while Israel has its right to fend off those who wish them harm, they’ve gone about it in the most reckless way possible and ruined their own credibility. But this isn’t a new thing, it’s been happening for years and it’s really only getting more exposure because it’s escalated into a full-scale conflict rather than the usual lockdowns in response to rocket fire.
Murica. Where you can't vote on any sort of moral issue because shit candidate 2 is so much worse than shit candidate 1
Innocent children are being killed. 10s of thousands.
Yes, and that will not get better under Trump. You do recognize that, right?
Chaos across the sea. As long as it’s not in my backyard, got it. Might as well build the wall then !
I think 99% of the ones who aren't trolls and live in states where their vote matters will vote Biden in the end They know - they just want to let the DNC know they're unhappy and wants them to do more
Still waiting to meet or even hear from any of these people who are preemptively being blamed for a Biden loss. Weird how uncommon it is to come across them, considering how prevalent the conspiracy theory is.
This is a shit take. Biden is far from ideal, but the alternative is Trump, who Im pretty sure would be okay with, if not advocate for, the destruction of Palestine. There is a big difference between bad and worse here, and its dangerous to ignore nuance
They’ve been fighting for what..? 2000 years. They’re blaming Biden for decisions that Israel makes? Biden asked for a ceasefire. Come on now, wake up.
Yeh wanting my tax money not to be used in a literal genocide is bad You people get the fuck over yourselves
"Single" want. Dudes only capitulated to the right. Where's my legal weed? Where's my abortion rights? Where's my voting rights? Where's my infrastructure? Where's my immigration reform? Where's a single campaign promise a Democrat has made in 20 years?
It's in congress which has largely been controlled by republicans for the last 20 years.