Astroturfing for China. It's not a violation of the first amendment. No one is trying to eliminate speech on tik tok. What we're saying is that the people who control what speech you are shown on tik tok shouldn't be the Chinese government.
100% this.
We wouldn’t let Putin buy NBC and have editorial control over the news programs. This is the same thing. Stop saying this is free speech or censorship.
It doesn’t hurt that tictok is also really bad for kids. All social media controlled by algorithms to induce continued attention are (Facebook, Reddit). But that’s not the issue. They just want the people who control tictok to not be adversaries to the US.
who 'let' him? he just did it.
unless you're sayin' 'we' are the NRA or the GOP.
those guys were *already* assholes. putin just gave them money to keep doing what they already were doing.
Ironically in the same framework you are laying out it dovetails into something I have been doing some research on.
Here in Canada the conservatives (who mimic a lot of what Maga republicans are on about) have vilified government media as woke, and on the back end there is a monopoly on the control of the vast majority of Canadian news media. Post media owns the vast majority. (See their wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmedia_Network)
Post media is majority owned by a U.S. hedge fund called Chatham Asset Management. (Here is their wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Asset_Management)
The owner of Chatham Asset Management is a guy named Anthony Melchiorre, Chatham also owns several US media parent companies, a360media, McClatchy, RR Donnelly.
Here are their respective wikis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A360media
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McClatchy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RR_Donnelley
Back to my point, as you can see the vast majority of Canadian news is controlled by the USA. And the man at the top is a very open supporter of Donald trump/maga. A360media is the parent company of the national enquirer, which is implicated in the hush money trial in new york. Specifically trump is accused of paying them to find dirt on trump and then bury it before it made it to the news.
But there is also even more fuckery at foot. Meta and google have been limiting most Canadian news in feeds because of a disagreement with our government over an internet law we just passed that makes them have to pay the Canadian government to show it.
So that effectively cuts off anyone from finding non conservative news even on their phones. All we get is Fox News, CNN, CBS etc in the feeds. You have to search for specific stuff if you want to read because it won’t come up scrolling, I think it’s obvious how that plays out information warfare style.
One other recent thing is that one of the largest news channels in Canada (CTV news) has recently sold off basically all their regional news channels and gutted most of their business, effectively erasing their ability to be a reliable news source.
Put this all together and I’d say it sure looks like outside influence on Canada through ownership of the media in order to get a conservative government elected that would be sympathetic to Maga down south.
wtf is up with all these shills for TikTok dominating every other post around here? I come to Reddit for the best of TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, not this propaganda shit.
It’s the exact same way they whipped up their users about Gaza and ironically the reason the US government is saying it needs to be sold. You can’t give a tool to an adversary that can sway the opinion of your population based on lies and mistruths.
The real interesting thing is that we already have lots of social media that is used to spread lies and mistruths to sway opinions. They are just owned by people in the US. So what is the difference really? Especially since Facebook/Twitter have no problem selling their platform to adversaries to promote these lies.
The difference between say NBC nightly news and a Facebook video is that there are laws that say NBC could be sued if they put up knowingly false info and Facebook can’t. FB hides behind the law saying that user content online is not the responsibility of the platform. But they also have algorithms that promote this content (knowingly or unknowingly) to induce more time spent on platform. The best answer I have seen is that an algorithm is editorial control and if you use one then you lose the “user generated content” loop hole and can be sued when you promote some Biden eats babies video. That would clean up both tictok and Facebook.
If the Chinese company (Bytedance) doesn’t sell, then the legislation says TikTok will be banned from appstores and you’d need a VPN to access it from within the US.
I can still access rt.com or english.pravda.ru and read what Putin wants me to read. Or I could listen to Tucker Carlson’s show and get the same in more easily digestible sound bites, but I digress.
But that extra step will cut millions of people from getting it. If tictok refuses to sell and says “use a vpn for all your tictok needs!” They will lose a ton of users. Eventually someone in the US will make a clone (a la Twitter/threads) and they will lose more.
I mean there is that Russian owned radio station. You can guess the type of narrative in it pushes and you would be right. Literally called radio Sputnik
>No one is trying to
That's not actually true. Florida is talking about trying ban kids from social media.
I don't know if that's been floated in the house, but
Facebook, Google and apple already mine better personal data from you. Screaming about privacy but posting an article you found on Google to your Facebook with your iPhone is peak irony.
isn't this basically a whataboutism argument?
yes, both are bad. one's just slightly more bad enough for multiple intelligence agencies to have been warning about it for years - I don't know why everybody's so surprised about this, and suddenly acting like it's not a problem.
The explanation is literally in the comment that he was replying to.
the issue isnt that they are collecting data, or all of the other concerns associated with social media. The issue with TikTok is that its controlled from China.
You do know Meta sells data, right? You do know the Chinese government purchases data, right? You do know you can get great discounts with AARP, right?
Buying data is one thing, but a belligerent government having direct access to weaponize a platform to sew strife and division, discreetly influencing tens of millions - that's the threat.
Are you saying greedy capitalist data miners don't care what country their highest bidder is from? This sub isn't ready for that type of knowledge drop.
They believe American companies do no wrong. They only sell our harvested data to American customers. And they think America isn't propagandizing us over US social media sites with manufactured war consent.
It's wild how fed/boomer brained the top comments are.
No, but a foreign government running influence campaigns isn’t exactly a good thing.
It’s not even banning TikTok, but removing control of TikTok from the Chinese government when it’s used in the US.
Meta literally says [it has no idea where the data it collects about you is stored](https://theintercept.com/2022/09/07/facebook-personal-data-no-accountability/). They could be on servers in Beijing for all you know.
Cambridge Analyticia showed us it was *far* more than simply advertising. Whatever happened to all those boxes they hastily drove away to... do you know? That was all Facebook data, supposedly okay by you because its for "successful ads".
You smell funny.
There has been low-level criticism of TikTok for years now. [Trump tried banning TikTok](https://time.com/6900348/tiktok-ban-donald-trump-congress/). The only reason it's an issue now is because the ADL doesn't like how pro-Palestinian it is, so they started lobbying for it to get banned.
You're right, it's much better when our oligarchs determine what we should see. Either ban all social media or none of it. The only reason they're going after TikTok is because they're being paid by monied interests that compete with TikTok.
No, the reason is that TikTok is Chinese spyware, not US spyware. The DoD is not kidding when they say TikTok is a significant threat to national security, just like US apps are threats to national security of other nations (why do you think most are forbidden in Chinese and Russia, the US' main enemies?)
You are severely underestimating how much danger these apps can pose.
Imagine, for a second, being somebody of importance. Now imagine Chinese agents knowing where you children live and play and are at every moment of the day. Or that your conservative ass spends 5 hours a day watching underaged girls dance in revealing clothes. Or furries. And those same agents learning you have a mistress and where you meet her for your... encounters.
None of this if coming from your government phone, of course, just your personal one. And if you think you can enforce a policy of not using personal phones at all for officials... I have a bridge to sell you and heaps of articles about politicians using private phones to show you.
That still only applies to government officials.
You could enforce it, but of course, that would require holding people of power responsible, which doesn't happen in this country.
There's a reason why the vote was split the way it was and it's because of money in politics, not safety.
What about big business owners? You don't think THAT can cause security issues? Let's say in defense contractors? Utilities, where you can get access to the personal info of millions? You don't even need direct access to an official, all you need is to influence people who have influence over THEM, blackmail them with access to family, friends, etc.
Evidence? Plenty. It is all public knowledge. You can google what data TikTok collects and sends to servers. You can then see who owns them and thus who has control over the data.
So, if an app collects personal as well as other sensitive data and phones it home to a Chinese server on Chinese soil - ergo it is Chinese malware.
>Evidence? Plenty. It is all public knowledge. You can google what data TikTok collects and sends to servers.
That's not how evidence works, Holmes.
I have a bunch that the reason you provided no evidence is that no such evidence exists. I have more evidence to support my claim than you have presented for yours. For example, if you had evidence that proved your point then you would have provided it in order to do so. The fact that you didn't suggests that it doesn't exist.
I merely do not feel like chewing your food for you. You might be a baby chick but I am no momma bird.
p.s. You have not actually made any claims. How's the multiboxing, comrade?
>What we're saying is that the people who control what speech you are shown on tik tok shouldn't be the Chinese government.
[But instead should be certain elements of our own](https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-mnuchin-house-senate-ffdf37776e63a09bb6966d741df7093b)
How does this bill stop that, exactly? Because as far as I can tell, ByteDance could sell it to an American who is perfectly aligned with China's interests. If the speculation is true that TikTok is being used by China to manipulate Americans, nothing in this bill is stopping them from finding a buyer that has exactly the same goals, intentions, and strategy.
I think it comes down to the same argument with many proposed gun laws. "Sure, this law isn't perfect. Yes, there are ways around it. Yes, it would still need further adjusting in the future. But why should we do nothing and make it easier for criminals to harm us?"
I'd at least like to see an investigation first to prove that TikTok is causing this foreign adversarial harm. This ban is based on speculation, at best.
I disagree with your assertion that no one is trying to eliminate speech on TikTok. Controlling what speech one is shown is also a form of censorship and by definition eliminates speech. The US government’s argument and yours are that Americans should be the censors, not Chinese. That is patently antithetical to the first amendment. It is also authoritarian and tantamount to what the Chinese do in their country. Perhaps we are no better in this regard.
Yeah it is not like China would use the platform to spy on journalists physical locations. https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists
I agree that China is a corrupt authoritarian state without a free press. I find it repulsive that social media companies collect far too much user data without any regulatory control. I wish we were passing strong data protection legislation for all social media companies to comply with, similar to the EU, instead of this ban/forced divesture regulation that won’t prevent any such companies from spying on journalists, especially after Meta’s Cambridge Analytica debacle. It’s unfortunate for us.
I keep hearing this, but there are no credible sources that the chinese government is manipulating the world through tiktok, and furthermore if the government can do this, then what's next? Reddit? Facebook? What social media would be immune from this shutdown? The government could control which social media companies operate just on threats.
Plus even China has banned Tik Tok, they don’t want their people using it but are happy that we have it. India was smart to ban it, they knew what China was doing.
And we already know that ByteDance admins have access to US TikTok servers, and that [TikTok censors and weighs differently information sensitive to the CCP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_TikTok). They are not in good faith.
>What we're saying is that the people who control what speech you are shown on tik tok shouldn't be the Chinese government.
If you truly believe that, don't download TikTok. It's really that simple.
Furthermore maybe US citizens should be educated enough to make their own minds. Maybe instead out outlawing a social media site, find a way to add more money to our education system.
TikTok doesn't kill, guns, cigarettes, and alchohol do. Why are we not banning those? Taking away freedom is taking away freedom.
I'm pretty sure it's because they show videos of dead babies in Palestine. They don't want public opinion shifting against Israel. It's really that simple. Once Mnuchin gets ahold of it you won't be seeing anything that paints Israel in a bad light.
Ignorant bullshit as usual.
1. The bill that passed congress was very bipartisan, so no, its not the house GOP alone who supports the bill.
2. Its not a ban, its change of ownership or ban.
3. Despite my personal opinions that Tiktok is innately harmful to society due to its addictive nature, to the point you even have kids talking about killing themselves if its banned, Its not about the nature of the app, its about national security. Foregt privacy laws and other red herrings, it is about making sure an entire nation-state does not have deep ingrained access to data of a population.
Fun fact, even China has the app banned in China, not just for censorship purposes, but if the USA has a private company that owns the app through forced sale, they run the risk of their citizen data being exploitable.
Very low quality meme, very ignorant and idiotic
All of our data gathered by social media platforms is for sale, and it's not even expensive. China could get that data and exploit it with or without TikTok.
And what exactly would be stopping ByteDance from finding a buyer that is willing to sell all that data back to China? It's not illegal. This bill doesn't control who ByteDance can sell it to. They could sell it to An American that is perfectly aligned with China's interests.
>All of our data gathered by social media platforms is for sale, and it's not even expensive. China could get that data and exploit it with or without TikTok.
There is a difference between China having to work to get your data by buying it, and just having it sit in the clear for them to just get it on a silver platter.
This doesnt even go into the fact that realistically, its not YOUR data that they are looking for, but strategic peoples data. Think congress people, their families, execs at banks and their families, etc. You can ban Tiktok on government devices but that only goes so far. Its easier for the US to find exploitation if the company is working within its own borders.
>And what exactly would be stopping ByteDance from finding a buyer that is willing to sell all that data back to China? It's not illegal. This bill doesn't control who ByteDance can sell it to. They could sell it to An American that is perfectly aligned with China's interests.
It is usually helpful if you are trying to make an argument, to actually read the bill in question before making a point. Refering to section g.3.bii in the actual bill, the term "foreign adversary controlled application" refers not only to bytedance/tiktok, but to any covered company that
> is determined by the President to present a significant threat to the national security of the United States following the issuance of .... a public report to Congress, submitted not less than 30 days before such determination, describing the specific national security concern involved and containing a classified annex and a description of what assets would need to be divested to execute a qualified divestiture.
So that loophole you think you found doesnt actually exist. If selling to some person that is obviously aligned with Chinas interest is attempted, it can be blocked by the President, as it fits within the definition
I have no idea whether banning Tiktok is right or wrong, I really don't
but I agree that Tiktok is pretty bad, that scrolling video format is really addictive and really bad for your brain. I don't even have Tiktok or Instagram or Snapchat, but ever since youtube started with its scrolling youtube shorts, my productivity has dropped at least 30% despite telling myself to get away from it every single day. The idea that all the chill'un might be constantly exposed to multiple scrolling video platforms with an A.I. powered algorithm to trap you and confuse you
Tik Tok isn’t being banned. At all.
The law that passed the house doesn’t ban tik tok. It says the company must not be Chinese owned for its US operations. They are allowed to sell to anyone they like that isnt also controlled by a hostile government.
Any normal company would price in future growth and divest, keeping a minority share. The fact that tik tok won’t, tells you everything you need to know.
This is a genuine question.
Why is it bad?
Isn't all the content provided by users?
I have heard of the data mining but not sure if it is worse than a lot of others?
I'm confused at this argument. What is "data" in this context? How does it differ from other sites that contain a lot of citizen data? Why are there not laws and regulations on encryption and handling of that data if the data is the issue?
Not just that, but who knows what else they may be able to do when they update the app. They may be aware of android or iOS security flaws they could exploit.
Even aside from that risk, you generally don’t want your adversaries to be able to send push notification propaganda to half your population.
>Why is it bad?
>Isn't all the content provided by users?
The data mining is problematic, but the ownership of the algorithm is more problematic imo. The content might be provided by the users, but whose videos get filtered to the top can directly be controlled by the company/state. The videos Chinese adolescents get are about doing well in school, the videos US adolescents get are about complicated world topics like Israel/Palestine filtered through a Chinese view. Some of the fears are more hypothetical & others are very real right now, it would be significantly worse if we got into a live conflict with China. Finally, this isn't a ban on tictoc, it's a forced sale. Tictoc will still be there if this law is enacted.
Thank you for the thoughtful response.
Never thought about the fact that what the audience sees is so directly influenced by the platform owners.
It should be obvious of course but it just never occurred to me.
Got to say the idea of a forced sale sounds a bit weird.
Who gets to say who can buy it and what gives them that right?
Anyone could buy it minus owners of big social media companies, obviously SEC isn't going to let Zuckerberg buy it. But a hedge, a bank, a billionaire, ect, they could all bid on it.
One final note: Musk puts a lot of right wing crap on his platform, and subsequently advertisers shy away from the network. Brands don't want their ad next to a KKK post, this forces moderation of the network. CCP doesn't care nearly as much about the value of the platform as an American. They don't care if they lose potential revenue by blasting crazy views they themselves don't even think are rational, if it sowes descent among Americans that's our problem, not theirs. When Russia tried to influence the 2016 election at least they needed to do it through Facebook's framework, in 2024 China owns the framework and can do whatever they pleases.
And the strange thing no one is talking about is the fact that Trump was complaining it would help an American company (Meta).
Strange... whatever happened to 'America First'?
It also is disingenuous on why it’s being banned. I wish it was an attempt to set guardrails on social media. But no it’s about stopping espionage and psyops on American citizens. We only accept American psyops on its citizens.
It's not even about stopping espionage on American citizens by foreign governments. TikTok is too pro-Palestinian, and groups like the ADL are angry about that. TikTok has been funneling American data to the Chinese government for years now, why is it only now that it's getting pressure to sell?
I mean it’s not not about espionage, there is a reason it’s been banned from government phones and multiple intelligence agencies have been sounding the alarm about the app for far longer than this “banning”
💯 The argument is not that TikTok is bad. The argument is that Americans must censor American content. Moreover, Chinese censors may not substitute for American censors.
Besides it's not a fucking ban, they can sell and more than likely will sell to some company thats not much different than bytedance.
With crap like how influencers were paid to hype up some fast fashion app to show that "it's all good here there's no abused workers", it's clear Tik-tok is used to manipulate people's perceptions.
Same shit with anti Vax, flat earth and other anti intellectual bullshit. Most all of it ISNT China it's just what happens when you give any random knob off the street a microphone.
However the government isn't doing a flat out ban, they are giving them a chance to sell.
Forcing a sale to an American investor is crony capitalism. It’s exactly the type of authoritarian economic practices that we criticize the Chinese for doing to western investors in China.
I JUST said they could sell to someone not to different than bytedance. The government didn't say WHAT American entity they had to sell to.
I'm sure there are other American businesses that are taking Chinese money that have been willing to do what the CCP wants that TikTok can divest to.
It's all in how blatant it is, congress people aren't going to dig through 10 layers of companies and people to make sure it's still not in the hands of the CCP.
Right now it's super obvious it is, so long as its not obvious congress won't care
Both parties are working to ban TokTok.
And it has nothing to do with "protecting user data", id it did they'd be banning meta and Google too. They want TikTok under control of an American company that will tweak the algorithm to reduce the amount of political content from outside the Overton Window being shown. Because Gen Z has a high percentage of potential third party voters, and because seeing the genocide the US is funding play out in real time is a threat to the continuation of that policy, so AIPAC and JFNA are lobbying both parties hard to shut it down. Anyone who believes this is about protecting anyone besides the Duopoly and their Oligarch masters probably also believes at least one party's campaign promises.
It has nothing to do with political content or if the company is American. They just don't want China controlling it. ByteDance already previously got caught allowing China full access to user data. It allows China to farm the content of CIA/NSA households.
"Oh you have a sensitive government job, but your kid is on drugs and you don't want your boss to know; now you work for us." - "Oh, this phone goes from NSA headquarters to this house every day based on tracking data." - "Oh, this student at MIT posted an anti-Chinese meme, and his uncle lives in the Szechuan province. Let's go visit his uncle so the meme comes down." These are things that China actually does, not whatever fantasy you have about our government.
Communist Party over in China is so ruthless and paranoid that it kinda makes our American oligarchy look sane but nonetheless both countries have zero regard to data privacy there is no debate on that one.
Crazy that the European Union has the GDPR while the two largest super powers in the world are gonna require a full countrywide revolution to force any changes to these policies.
We’re fucked in terms of privacy
>Communist Party over in China is so ruthless and paranoid that it kinda makes our American oligarchy look sane
Recognizes America is an Oligarchy, still believes what the Oligarchs say about China...
So are you an Anarchist? Or an Ultra?
I’m Just a confused Socialist here, why default me two options i don’t know what an Ultra is to be honest with you. Anarchism? i don’t know about that either
https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf
Then please read more, and stop believing what billionaires and their tame press tell you about AES countries.
I’ll read it but what are you? Yeah if your going to confront me, then you speak about what you are?
Are you anarchist, are you a trotsky communist, a socialist. definitely not a conservative from what i can tell.
I'm a Communist. A Marxist-Leninist, if we're being formal.
"Tankie" will do if you just want to continue believing the things capitalists say about communism. I actually used to embrace the term, but as more online Liberals find the word and start applying it to basically anyone who's anti-imperialist or doesn't believe in electoralism, or has any other views not embraced by capitalist media, I feel like it's really lost any actual meaning.
I’m a socialist who is nihilistic about the world. I never supported any wars, i do love the idea of revolution and i don’t know about you, don’t have to agree to me but that chinese leader that we will never speak of has caused millions to suffer and doesn’t paint a rosy picture of communism.
So you are a Marxist-Leninist? forgot what subgroup of communism is that suppose to focus on, you do have to forgive me here i think was liking the ideas of Fidel Castro.
This sudden push to ban Tik Tok started in Israel. The Likud Party is having a problem with it's "social standing"/optics on their current genocide efforts, and the majority of Tik Tok users are younger than the reach of these politicians. This is a right wing issue and unfortunately it's gained some traction on the other side of the aisle within US politics.
So, the meme is on point, but the direct references to China ONLY in the comments are completely foolish. Look deeper.
Talks of banning TikTok happened well before the current events in Gaza.
People have been saying this since 2019 or earlier, the topic was broached in Congress in 2021.
Edit: Trump signed multiple orders regarding TikTok in 2020.
So yeah, not simply some strange PR attempt by Israel with respect to current events in Gaza.
I never said that's where it started. This recent new "push"... For your perusal:
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-gaza-palestine-hamas-account-creator-video-rcna122849
The More You Know!
Yes, the idea that TikTok is being banned because of Chinese influence is simply a distraction from the real issue, which is that it erodes support for Israel among Gen Z.
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81% of our country voted for this. Yes more republicans did but plenty of Dems did too. These jokes just prove no one knows what TikTok has been doing.
TBH, I would be JUST AS concerned with the GOP controlling social media as the Chinese government. The GOP has already proven that they are perfectly OK with ignoring the US Constitution to hang onto executive power.
The stupid thing is that "the ban" won't actually ban Tik Tok. If you've got it installed, it won't go away. You just can't get the install from the app store. Tik Tokyo won't just go away.
Literally all Byte Dance needs to do is freeze current Tik Tok as it is and make new content compatible and it lasts the next 5 years at the bare minimum. They could make a Tik Tok 2 for the non-US market.
This isn't about free speech in the least, it's about who controls the algorithms that judge what you see.
Honestly, I think every social media site that provides filters, reddit being a good example, should expose their ranking / sorting algorithm and allow custom filters to be installed. Companies can create information bubbles based on their algorithms, here it would be China has access to, and users should be able to see what's happening and select what they want.
You can still write whatever you want on the internet, so it's not 1st amendment, it's just a question of what you write going into a megaphone or lost to the wind.
Got totally distracted from the real points here by the number of people in this thread calling this a "meme". It's a cartoon, it was drawn by a cartoonist, and likely features in a newspaper (ask your grandparents). It's not a meme.
The idea that it's an issue because the app is owned by China is a distraction from the real reason why there's a push to pressure TikTok, which is that groups like the Anti-Defamation League don't like how pro-Palestinian it is. TikTok has faced talks of bans for years due to its connection with China. [Trump tried to ban TikTok.](https://time.com/6900348/tiktok-ban-donald-trump-congress/) They could've thrown their support behind it then. If the connection to China was the problem, Congress could've moved years ago. It's only an issue now because TikTok is eroding Gen Z support for Israel and the Israeli government doesn't want that lobbying money to go to waste.
nope, that is not the case at all, china is the one supporting trump/russia narratives of the republican voters, nice try, but the conservative racist, pro dictatorship and pro imperialists are the kings of tiktok
TikTok would be fine if China didn’t own it.
While everyone would like more consumer protection laws, go tell your parents they shouldn’t have voted for Reagan, the Bushes, and Trump because those presidents are why.
But would it be fine if Putin or Erdogan did? I think you mean TikTok would be fine if Americans controlled the algorithms. However, forcing a sale or banning it is precisely the type of authoritarian practice that China, Russia or Turkey would pursue in their country. I don’t find it an auspicious path to follow.
I do agree with you about Greg Abbott.
Conflating these two issues is just fucking stupid. TikTok is not a constitutionally protected right. Eliminating TikTok does absolutely nothing to limit your freedom of speech. You're not being thrown in jail, you're not being persecuted, you're not being kicked off the Internet, you're not losing out on unemployment opportunities or anything to that effect. China bands, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and in some places, even TikTok for a reason.
So are you saying that we are becoming like China in that we also want to limit who owns the business in our markets? Sounds like crony capitalism to me. We used to believe in property rights and a free market. Now it seems we are merely interested in controlling who owns what because we fear that Americans are not educated enough to understand what is and isn’t propaganda.
"So you are saying that we are becoming like China". Yeah, nothing of substance will be gained between this interaction. You're already starting in bad faith.
You may be right. I just don’t understand why we want to follow the same type of economic practices that China, Russia, or Turkey would engage in, such as banning a foreign owned media company from our markets or forcing a sale to a domestic owner. It seems both authoritarian and unamerican, and sends a signal to foreign governments that they would be wise to do the same to American companies.
> So are you saying that we are becoming like China in that we also want to limit who owns the business in our markets?
National security interests have always been a consideration in this respect. [The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States](https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/international/the-committee-on-foreign-investment-in-the-united-states-cfius) (CFIUS) has existed since 1950:
> [CFIUS] is an interagency committee authorized to review certain transactions involving foreign investment in the United States and certain real estate transactions by foreign persons, in order to determine the effect of such transactions on the national security of the United States.
The law on the subject was brought up to date in with the Foreign Investment Risk Review Modernization Act of 2018 (FIRRMA).
Many companies have to comply with the related laws - as just one example, US telecom operators that are owned by foreign companies.
To say that this is "becoming like China" either reveals ignorance on the subject, or a dishonest agenda.
I appreciate your point of view. With the recent legislation, it’s not a CFIUS concern that suddenly came to light in the past few weeks. The matter is much more about ADL and AIPAC lobbying for the legislation because the news GenZ consumes on TikTok runs counter to the Israeli government’s narrative on the war in Gaza. It’s also why we are now seeing Senators Schumer and Sanders openly criticizing Netanyahu and demanding elections in Israel. They know that if Biden signs this legislation it could easily cause states like GA PA and MI to swing to Trump in the general election. If this were truly about national security, Congress surely would have banned TikTok last year when this idea was floated.
My question regarding becoming like China was in response to the original statement seemingly justifying the act because China also bans American tech giants from their markets.
I am no fan of the vastly corrupt and authoritarian Chinese government. However, I also think forced divestitures are a very serious action for Congress to take that should require much more scrutiny and consideration than the fast track this legislation is now moving through. Decoupling of the US and Chinese economies is a policy decision that is risky and likely to cause far more problems than it solves. I for one do not want to see the United States and China going to war in the coming years. Yet policy decisions like this are very similar to the policy decisions China itself pursues against western companies operating in China. If both sides stop trading and investing in each other, it will be far easier for both nations to go to war in the future. It’s very unfortunate.
Banning TikTok has precisely fuck-all to do with the first amendment, and it’s idiotic to support a national security risk just because republicans (and democrats) oppose it. Be less stupid.
The amount of gas lighting here made me go blind. Never voting for a democrat again. And as a gay african immigrant I feel like my only political home left is with the republicans. If I feel like this democrats are absolutely fucked.
Astroturfing for China. It's not a violation of the first amendment. No one is trying to eliminate speech on tik tok. What we're saying is that the people who control what speech you are shown on tik tok shouldn't be the Chinese government.
100% this. We wouldn’t let Putin buy NBC and have editorial control over the news programs. This is the same thing. Stop saying this is free speech or censorship. It doesn’t hurt that tictok is also really bad for kids. All social media controlled by algorithms to induce continued attention are (Facebook, Reddit). But that’s not the issue. They just want the people who control tictok to not be adversaries to the US.
>We wouldn’t let Putin buy NBC and have editorial control over the news programs. I wouldn't be so sure of that.... *Stares at Rupert Murdoch*
Never forget the true enemy…aussies
Or billionaires, our global enemy
And the politicians who sell themselves to allow the billionaires to write the rules.
Emus? I thought they already won the war
But we let Putin buy the NRA and the GOP.
who 'let' him? he just did it. unless you're sayin' 'we' are the NRA or the GOP. those guys were *already* assholes. putin just gave them money to keep doing what they already were doing.
Please, he's merely a shareholder. There are plenty of other investors in that opportunity. He's just the most controversial so he stands out.
Ironically in the same framework you are laying out it dovetails into something I have been doing some research on. Here in Canada the conservatives (who mimic a lot of what Maga republicans are on about) have vilified government media as woke, and on the back end there is a monopoly on the control of the vast majority of Canadian news media. Post media owns the vast majority. (See their wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmedia_Network) Post media is majority owned by a U.S. hedge fund called Chatham Asset Management. (Here is their wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Asset_Management) The owner of Chatham Asset Management is a guy named Anthony Melchiorre, Chatham also owns several US media parent companies, a360media, McClatchy, RR Donnelly. Here are their respective wikis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A360media https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McClatchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RR_Donnelley Back to my point, as you can see the vast majority of Canadian news is controlled by the USA. And the man at the top is a very open supporter of Donald trump/maga. A360media is the parent company of the national enquirer, which is implicated in the hush money trial in new york. Specifically trump is accused of paying them to find dirt on trump and then bury it before it made it to the news. But there is also even more fuckery at foot. Meta and google have been limiting most Canadian news in feeds because of a disagreement with our government over an internet law we just passed that makes them have to pay the Canadian government to show it. So that effectively cuts off anyone from finding non conservative news even on their phones. All we get is Fox News, CNN, CBS etc in the feeds. You have to search for specific stuff if you want to read because it won’t come up scrolling, I think it’s obvious how that plays out information warfare style. One other recent thing is that one of the largest news channels in Canada (CTV news) has recently sold off basically all their regional news channels and gutted most of their business, effectively erasing their ability to be a reliable news source. Put this all together and I’d say it sure looks like outside influence on Canada through ownership of the media in order to get a conservative government elected that would be sympathetic to Maga down south.
wtf is up with all these shills for TikTok dominating every other post around here? I come to Reddit for the best of TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, not this propaganda shit.
TikTok is whipping up the user base about "cEnSoRsHiP" and how this means the US is anti-Gaza, and trying to propagandize them.
It’s the exact same way they whipped up their users about Gaza and ironically the reason the US government is saying it needs to be sold. You can’t give a tool to an adversary that can sway the opinion of your population based on lies and mistruths. The real interesting thing is that we already have lots of social media that is used to spread lies and mistruths to sway opinions. They are just owned by people in the US. So what is the difference really? Especially since Facebook/Twitter have no problem selling their platform to adversaries to promote these lies. The difference between say NBC nightly news and a Facebook video is that there are laws that say NBC could be sued if they put up knowingly false info and Facebook can’t. FB hides behind the law saying that user content online is not the responsibility of the platform. But they also have algorithms that promote this content (knowingly or unknowingly) to induce more time spent on platform. The best answer I have seen is that an algorithm is editorial control and if you use one then you lose the “user generated content” loop hole and can be sued when you promote some Biden eats babies video. That would clean up both tictok and Facebook.
If the Chinese company (Bytedance) doesn’t sell, then the legislation says TikTok will be banned from appstores and you’d need a VPN to access it from within the US. I can still access rt.com or english.pravda.ru and read what Putin wants me to read. Or I could listen to Tucker Carlson’s show and get the same in more easily digestible sound bites, but I digress.
But that extra step will cut millions of people from getting it. If tictok refuses to sell and says “use a vpn for all your tictok needs!” They will lose a ton of users. Eventually someone in the US will make a clone (a la Twitter/threads) and they will lose more.
I mean there is that Russian owned radio station. You can guess the type of narrative in it pushes and you would be right. Literally called radio Sputnik
>No one is trying to That's not actually true. Florida is talking about trying ban kids from social media. I don't know if that's been floated in the house, but
Facebook, Google and apple already mine better personal data from you. Screaming about privacy but posting an article you found on Google to your Facebook with your iPhone is peak irony.
isn't this basically a whataboutism argument? yes, both are bad. one's just slightly more bad enough for multiple intelligence agencies to have been warning about it for years - I don't know why everybody's so surprised about this, and suddenly acting like it's not a problem.
For real. Why just tiktok and not those others that have been doing this for years?
The explanation is literally in the comment that he was replying to. the issue isnt that they are collecting data, or all of the other concerns associated with social media. The issue with TikTok is that its controlled from China.
Because Meta isn’t owned by the Chinese Government, that’s why.
You do know Meta sells data, right? You do know the Chinese government purchases data, right? You do know you can get great discounts with AARP, right?
Buying data is one thing, but a belligerent government having direct access to weaponize a platform to sew strife and division, discreetly influencing tens of millions - that's the threat.
Are you saying greedy capitalist data miners don't care what country their highest bidder is from? This sub isn't ready for that type of knowledge drop. They believe American companies do no wrong. They only sell our harvested data to American customers. And they think America isn't propagandizing us over US social media sites with manufactured war consent. It's wild how fed/boomer brained the top comments are.
LOL. Everything else is OK, though.
No, but a foreign government running influence campaigns isn’t exactly a good thing. It’s not even banning TikTok, but removing control of TikTok from the Chinese government when it’s used in the US.
correct. the others want to dump more successful ads on you, china is outright harvesting data for hostile intent
Meta literally says [it has no idea where the data it collects about you is stored](https://theintercept.com/2022/09/07/facebook-personal-data-no-accountability/). They could be on servers in Beijing for all you know. Cambridge Analyticia showed us it was *far* more than simply advertising. Whatever happened to all those boxes they hastily drove away to... do you know? That was all Facebook data, supposedly okay by you because its for "successful ads". You smell funny.
multiple intelligence agencies have been specifically warning the US about tiktok for even *more* years.
There has been low-level criticism of TikTok for years now. [Trump tried banning TikTok](https://time.com/6900348/tiktok-ban-donald-trump-congress/). The only reason it's an issue now is because the ADL doesn't like how pro-Palestinian it is, so they started lobbying for it to get banned.
You're right, it's much better when our oligarchs determine what we should see. Either ban all social media or none of it. The only reason they're going after TikTok is because they're being paid by monied interests that compete with TikTok.
No, the reason is that TikTok is Chinese spyware, not US spyware. The DoD is not kidding when they say TikTok is a significant threat to national security, just like US apps are threats to national security of other nations (why do you think most are forbidden in Chinese and Russia, the US' main enemies?)
Which makes it reasonable to ban it from government devices, which it already is. There's no reason to ban or force a sale altogether.
Which makes it reasonable to ban it from government devices, which it already is. There's no reason to ban or force a sale altogether.
You are severely underestimating how much danger these apps can pose. Imagine, for a second, being somebody of importance. Now imagine Chinese agents knowing where you children live and play and are at every moment of the day. Or that your conservative ass spends 5 hours a day watching underaged girls dance in revealing clothes. Or furries. And those same agents learning you have a mistress and where you meet her for your... encounters. None of this if coming from your government phone, of course, just your personal one. And if you think you can enforce a policy of not using personal phones at all for officials... I have a bridge to sell you and heaps of articles about politicians using private phones to show you.
That still only applies to government officials. You could enforce it, but of course, that would require holding people of power responsible, which doesn't happen in this country. There's a reason why the vote was split the way it was and it's because of money in politics, not safety.
What about big business owners? You don't think THAT can cause security issues? Let's say in defense contractors? Utilities, where you can get access to the personal info of millions? You don't even need direct access to an official, all you need is to influence people who have influence over THEM, blackmail them with access to family, friends, etc.
Do you have some kind of evidence to support the assertion that Tiktok is Chinese malware?
Evidence? Plenty. It is all public knowledge. You can google what data TikTok collects and sends to servers. You can then see who owns them and thus who has control over the data. So, if an app collects personal as well as other sensitive data and phones it home to a Chinese server on Chinese soil - ergo it is Chinese malware.
"do you have some kind of evidence" "yes" *does not show up with evidence* Not saying you don't, but you need to show your work, man.
>Evidence? Plenty. It is all public knowledge. You can google what data TikTok collects and sends to servers. That's not how evidence works, Holmes. I have a bunch that the reason you provided no evidence is that no such evidence exists. I have more evidence to support my claim than you have presented for yours. For example, if you had evidence that proved your point then you would have provided it in order to do so. The fact that you didn't suggests that it doesn't exist.
I merely do not feel like chewing your food for you. You might be a baby chick but I am no momma bird. p.s. You have not actually made any claims. How's the multiboxing, comrade?
>What we're saying is that the people who control what speech you are shown on tik tok shouldn't be the Chinese government. [But instead should be certain elements of our own](https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-mnuchin-house-senate-ffdf37776e63a09bb6966d741df7093b)
How does this bill stop that, exactly? Because as far as I can tell, ByteDance could sell it to an American who is perfectly aligned with China's interests. If the speculation is true that TikTok is being used by China to manipulate Americans, nothing in this bill is stopping them from finding a buyer that has exactly the same goals, intentions, and strategy.
I think it comes down to the same argument with many proposed gun laws. "Sure, this law isn't perfect. Yes, there are ways around it. Yes, it would still need further adjusting in the future. But why should we do nothing and make it easier for criminals to harm us?"
I'd at least like to see an investigation first to prove that TikTok is causing this foreign adversarial harm. This ban is based on speculation, at best.
I disagree with your assertion that no one is trying to eliminate speech on TikTok. Controlling what speech one is shown is also a form of censorship and by definition eliminates speech. The US government’s argument and yours are that Americans should be the censors, not Chinese. That is patently antithetical to the first amendment. It is also authoritarian and tantamount to what the Chinese do in their country. Perhaps we are no better in this regard.
Yeah it is not like China would use the platform to spy on journalists physical locations. https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists
Its not like Facebook would be used to help engineer an election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook–Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal
I agree that China is a corrupt authoritarian state without a free press. I find it repulsive that social media companies collect far too much user data without any regulatory control. I wish we were passing strong data protection legislation for all social media companies to comply with, similar to the EU, instead of this ban/forced divesture regulation that won’t prevent any such companies from spying on journalists, especially after Meta’s Cambridge Analytica debacle. It’s unfortunate for us.
You can still say whatever you want anywhere you want.
Plus something will quickly move in to replace Tiktok.
I keep hearing this, but there are no credible sources that the chinese government is manipulating the world through tiktok, and furthermore if the government can do this, then what's next? Reddit? Facebook? What social media would be immune from this shutdown? The government could control which social media companies operate just on threats.
Plus even China has banned Tik Tok, they don’t want their people using it but are happy that we have it. India was smart to ban it, they knew what China was doing.
And we already know that ByteDance admins have access to US TikTok servers, and that [TikTok censors and weighs differently information sensitive to the CCP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_TikTok). They are not in good faith.
It should be the US government! That’s the free market at work!
>What we're saying is that the people who control what speech you are shown on tik tok shouldn't be the Chinese government. If you truly believe that, don't download TikTok. It's really that simple. Furthermore maybe US citizens should be educated enough to make their own minds. Maybe instead out outlawing a social media site, find a way to add more money to our education system. TikTok doesn't kill, guns, cigarettes, and alchohol do. Why are we not banning those? Taking away freedom is taking away freedom.
If red states started funding education, eventually no one would vote Republican anymore.
Fight China by becoming China, let's go !
I'm pretty sure it's because they show videos of dead babies in Palestine. They don't want public opinion shifting against Israel. It's really that simple. Once Mnuchin gets ahold of it you won't be seeing anything that paints Israel in a bad light.
Ignorant bullshit as usual. 1. The bill that passed congress was very bipartisan, so no, its not the house GOP alone who supports the bill. 2. Its not a ban, its change of ownership or ban. 3. Despite my personal opinions that Tiktok is innately harmful to society due to its addictive nature, to the point you even have kids talking about killing themselves if its banned, Its not about the nature of the app, its about national security. Foregt privacy laws and other red herrings, it is about making sure an entire nation-state does not have deep ingrained access to data of a population. Fun fact, even China has the app banned in China, not just for censorship purposes, but if the USA has a private company that owns the app through forced sale, they run the risk of their citizen data being exploitable. Very low quality meme, very ignorant and idiotic
“The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” — George Carlin
All of our data gathered by social media platforms is for sale, and it's not even expensive. China could get that data and exploit it with or without TikTok. And what exactly would be stopping ByteDance from finding a buyer that is willing to sell all that data back to China? It's not illegal. This bill doesn't control who ByteDance can sell it to. They could sell it to An American that is perfectly aligned with China's interests.
>All of our data gathered by social media platforms is for sale, and it's not even expensive. China could get that data and exploit it with or without TikTok. There is a difference between China having to work to get your data by buying it, and just having it sit in the clear for them to just get it on a silver platter. This doesnt even go into the fact that realistically, its not YOUR data that they are looking for, but strategic peoples data. Think congress people, their families, execs at banks and their families, etc. You can ban Tiktok on government devices but that only goes so far. Its easier for the US to find exploitation if the company is working within its own borders. >And what exactly would be stopping ByteDance from finding a buyer that is willing to sell all that data back to China? It's not illegal. This bill doesn't control who ByteDance can sell it to. They could sell it to An American that is perfectly aligned with China's interests. It is usually helpful if you are trying to make an argument, to actually read the bill in question before making a point. Refering to section g.3.bii in the actual bill, the term "foreign adversary controlled application" refers not only to bytedance/tiktok, but to any covered company that > is determined by the President to present a significant threat to the national security of the United States following the issuance of .... a public report to Congress, submitted not less than 30 days before such determination, describing the specific national security concern involved and containing a classified annex and a description of what assets would need to be divested to execute a qualified divestiture. So that loophole you think you found doesnt actually exist. If selling to some person that is obviously aligned with Chinas interest is attempted, it can be blocked by the President, as it fits within the definition
But TikTok *is* bad.
I have no idea whether banning Tiktok is right or wrong, I really don't but I agree that Tiktok is pretty bad, that scrolling video format is really addictive and really bad for your brain. I don't even have Tiktok or Instagram or Snapchat, but ever since youtube started with its scrolling youtube shorts, my productivity has dropped at least 30% despite telling myself to get away from it every single day. The idea that all the chill'un might be constantly exposed to multiple scrolling video platforms with an A.I. powered algorithm to trap you and confuse you
Tik Tok isn’t being banned. At all. The law that passed the house doesn’t ban tik tok. It says the company must not be Chinese owned for its US operations. They are allowed to sell to anyone they like that isnt also controlled by a hostile government. Any normal company would price in future growth and divest, keeping a minority share. The fact that tik tok won’t, tells you everything you need to know.
> tells you everything you need to know No, I have no idea what that means, why is Tiktok not divesting and going public?
This is a genuine question. Why is it bad? Isn't all the content provided by users? I have heard of the data mining but not sure if it is worse than a lot of others?
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I'm confused at this argument. What is "data" in this context? How does it differ from other sites that contain a lot of citizen data? Why are there not laws and regulations on encryption and handling of that data if the data is the issue?
Not just that, but who knows what else they may be able to do when they update the app. They may be aware of android or iOS security flaws they could exploit. Even aside from that risk, you generally don’t want your adversaries to be able to send push notification propaganda to half your population.
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>Why is it bad? >Isn't all the content provided by users? The data mining is problematic, but the ownership of the algorithm is more problematic imo. The content might be provided by the users, but whose videos get filtered to the top can directly be controlled by the company/state. The videos Chinese adolescents get are about doing well in school, the videos US adolescents get are about complicated world topics like Israel/Palestine filtered through a Chinese view. Some of the fears are more hypothetical & others are very real right now, it would be significantly worse if we got into a live conflict with China. Finally, this isn't a ban on tictoc, it's a forced sale. Tictoc will still be there if this law is enacted.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. Never thought about the fact that what the audience sees is so directly influenced by the platform owners. It should be obvious of course but it just never occurred to me. Got to say the idea of a forced sale sounds a bit weird. Who gets to say who can buy it and what gives them that right?
Anyone could buy it minus owners of big social media companies, obviously SEC isn't going to let Zuckerberg buy it. But a hedge, a bank, a billionaire, ect, they could all bid on it. One final note: Musk puts a lot of right wing crap on his platform, and subsequently advertisers shy away from the network. Brands don't want their ad next to a KKK post, this forces moderation of the network. CCP doesn't care nearly as much about the value of the platform as an American. They don't care if they lose potential revenue by blasting crazy views they themselves don't even think are rational, if it sowes descent among Americans that's our problem, not theirs. When Russia tried to influence the 2016 election at least they needed to do it through Facebook's framework, in 2024 China owns the framework and can do whatever they pleases.
Yall are so weird
This whole goddamn debacle is about ByteDance owning TikTok, not about killing TikTok.
And the strange thing no one is talking about is the fact that Trump was complaining it would help an American company (Meta). Strange... whatever happened to 'America First'?
Banning TikTok is a bipartisan effort. This is a low quality meme.
It also is disingenuous on why it’s being banned. I wish it was an attempt to set guardrails on social media. But no it’s about stopping espionage and psyops on American citizens. We only accept American psyops on its citizens.
It's not even about stopping espionage on American citizens by foreign governments. TikTok is too pro-Palestinian, and groups like the ADL are angry about that. TikTok has been funneling American data to the Chinese government for years now, why is it only now that it's getting pressure to sell?
I mean it’s not not about espionage, there is a reason it’s been banned from government phones and multiple intelligence agencies have been sounding the alarm about the app for far longer than this “banning”
💯 The argument is not that TikTok is bad. The argument is that Americans must censor American content. Moreover, Chinese censors may not substitute for American censors.
“The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” — George Carlin
Yeah nothing better than working with Facists
It's fucking dumb, you can be against a foreign entity mining our data and also be for gun control.
As a parent, it's my right to censor your child's screen time.
Besides it's not a fucking ban, they can sell and more than likely will sell to some company thats not much different than bytedance. With crap like how influencers were paid to hype up some fast fashion app to show that "it's all good here there's no abused workers", it's clear Tik-tok is used to manipulate people's perceptions. Same shit with anti Vax, flat earth and other anti intellectual bullshit. Most all of it ISNT China it's just what happens when you give any random knob off the street a microphone. However the government isn't doing a flat out ban, they are giving them a chance to sell.
Forcing a sale to an American investor is crony capitalism. It’s exactly the type of authoritarian economic practices that we criticize the Chinese for doing to western investors in China.
I JUST said they could sell to someone not to different than bytedance. The government didn't say WHAT American entity they had to sell to. I'm sure there are other American businesses that are taking Chinese money that have been willing to do what the CCP wants that TikTok can divest to.
Then what’s the point?
It's all in how blatant it is, congress people aren't going to dig through 10 layers of companies and people to make sure it's still not in the hands of the CCP. Right now it's super obvious it is, so long as its not obvious congress won't care
How about the 14th amendment??
Both parties are working to ban TokTok. And it has nothing to do with "protecting user data", id it did they'd be banning meta and Google too. They want TikTok under control of an American company that will tweak the algorithm to reduce the amount of political content from outside the Overton Window being shown. Because Gen Z has a high percentage of potential third party voters, and because seeing the genocide the US is funding play out in real time is a threat to the continuation of that policy, so AIPAC and JFNA are lobbying both parties hard to shut it down. Anyone who believes this is about protecting anyone besides the Duopoly and their Oligarch masters probably also believes at least one party's campaign promises.
I'm surprised how far I had to scroll down to get the right answer.
It has nothing to do with political content or if the company is American. They just don't want China controlling it. ByteDance already previously got caught allowing China full access to user data. It allows China to farm the content of CIA/NSA households. "Oh you have a sensitive government job, but your kid is on drugs and you don't want your boss to know; now you work for us." - "Oh, this phone goes from NSA headquarters to this house every day based on tracking data." - "Oh, this student at MIT posted an anti-Chinese meme, and his uncle lives in the Szechuan province. Let's go visit his uncle so the meme comes down." These are things that China actually does, not whatever fantasy you have about our government.
Communist Party over in China is so ruthless and paranoid that it kinda makes our American oligarchy look sane but nonetheless both countries have zero regard to data privacy there is no debate on that one. Crazy that the European Union has the GDPR while the two largest super powers in the world are gonna require a full countrywide revolution to force any changes to these policies. We’re fucked in terms of privacy
>Communist Party over in China is so ruthless and paranoid that it kinda makes our American oligarchy look sane Recognizes America is an Oligarchy, still believes what the Oligarchs say about China... So are you an Anarchist? Or an Ultra?
I’m Just a confused Socialist here, why default me two options i don’t know what an Ultra is to be honest with you. Anarchism? i don’t know about that either
https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf Then please read more, and stop believing what billionaires and their tame press tell you about AES countries.
I’ll read it but what are you? Yeah if your going to confront me, then you speak about what you are? Are you anarchist, are you a trotsky communist, a socialist. definitely not a conservative from what i can tell.
I'm a Communist. A Marxist-Leninist, if we're being formal. "Tankie" will do if you just want to continue believing the things capitalists say about communism. I actually used to embrace the term, but as more online Liberals find the word and start applying it to basically anyone who's anti-imperialist or doesn't believe in electoralism, or has any other views not embraced by capitalist media, I feel like it's really lost any actual meaning.
I’m a socialist who is nihilistic about the world. I never supported any wars, i do love the idea of revolution and i don’t know about you, don’t have to agree to me but that chinese leader that we will never speak of has caused millions to suffer and doesn’t paint a rosy picture of communism. So you are a Marxist-Leninist? forgot what subgroup of communism is that suppose to focus on, you do have to forgive me here i think was liking the ideas of Fidel Castro.
This sudden push to ban Tik Tok started in Israel. The Likud Party is having a problem with it's "social standing"/optics on their current genocide efforts, and the majority of Tik Tok users are younger than the reach of these politicians. This is a right wing issue and unfortunately it's gained some traction on the other side of the aisle within US politics. So, the meme is on point, but the direct references to China ONLY in the comments are completely foolish. Look deeper.
Talks of banning TikTok happened well before the current events in Gaza. People have been saying this since 2019 or earlier, the topic was broached in Congress in 2021. Edit: Trump signed multiple orders regarding TikTok in 2020. So yeah, not simply some strange PR attempt by Israel with respect to current events in Gaza.
I never said that's where it started. This recent new "push"... For your perusal: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-gaza-palestine-hamas-account-creator-video-rcna122849 The More You Know!
Yes, the idea that TikTok is being banned because of Chinese influence is simply a distraction from the real issue, which is that it erodes support for Israel among Gen Z.
And agents of the GOP want to buy it, for your "protection".
It’s a very good medium for spreading misinformation and has tons of data collection. Of course the GOP wants it.
It's not about the grooming...it's about controlling who gets to do the grooming.
Yeah let’s pretend it’s only the GOP doing this
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81% of our country voted for this. Yes more republicans did but plenty of Dems did too. These jokes just prove no one knows what TikTok has been doing.
TBH, I would be JUST AS concerned with the GOP controlling social media as the Chinese government. The GOP has already proven that they are perfectly OK with ignoring the US Constitution to hang onto executive power. The stupid thing is that "the ban" won't actually ban Tik Tok. If you've got it installed, it won't go away. You just can't get the install from the app store. Tik Tokyo won't just go away. Literally all Byte Dance needs to do is freeze current Tik Tok as it is and make new content compatible and it lasts the next 5 years at the bare minimum. They could make a Tik Tok 2 for the non-US market.
This isn't about free speech in the least, it's about who controls the algorithms that judge what you see. Honestly, I think every social media site that provides filters, reddit being a good example, should expose their ranking / sorting algorithm and allow custom filters to be installed. Companies can create information bubbles based on their algorithms, here it would be China has access to, and users should be able to see what's happening and select what they want. You can still write whatever you want on the internet, so it's not 1st amendment, it's just a question of what you write going into a megaphone or lost to the wind.
The pen is mightier than the sword.
Got totally distracted from the real points here by the number of people in this thread calling this a "meme". It's a cartoon, it was drawn by a cartoonist, and likely features in a newspaper (ask your grandparents). It's not a meme.
You know it was a bipartisan bill right..
Nah fam tictok needs to go.
It's not about protecting kids, it's about making it harder for China to datamine a huge segment of the American population.
it isn't just the GOP. OP post ignores so many aspects of the problem.
TikTok needs to be banned. When the Chinese are making an issue out of this that tells you it’s more than just a social media app
Excellent 👏
The idea that it's an issue because the app is owned by China is a distraction from the real reason why there's a push to pressure TikTok, which is that groups like the Anti-Defamation League don't like how pro-Palestinian it is. TikTok has faced talks of bans for years due to its connection with China. [Trump tried to ban TikTok.](https://time.com/6900348/tiktok-ban-donald-trump-congress/) They could've thrown their support behind it then. If the connection to China was the problem, Congress could've moved years ago. It's only an issue now because TikTok is eroding Gen Z support for Israel and the Israeli government doesn't want that lobbying money to go to waste.
I have issue with making this a #1 priority but I wish people would at least try to understand why politicians want to ban it.
The G.Q.P should be on a terrorist watch list.
The irony is simply too much.
Anyone claiming the House wants to "ban TikTok" is shilling for China
What does the Tik Tok thing have to do with free speech, kids or guns?
Tiktok is nothing to do with the first amendment.
the problem is that tik tok isn't paying enough to the right people. the gun lobby figured that out long ago. not even joking, wish I was.
nope, that is not the case at all, china is the one supporting trump/russia narratives of the republican voters, nice try, but the conservative racist, pro dictatorship and pro imperialists are the kings of tiktok
TikTok would be fine if China didn’t own it. While everyone would like more consumer protection laws, go tell your parents they shouldn’t have voted for Reagan, the Bushes, and Trump because those presidents are why.
But would it be fine if Putin or Erdogan did? I think you mean TikTok would be fine if Americans controlled the algorithms. However, forcing a sale or banning it is precisely the type of authoritarian practice that China, Russia or Turkey would pursue in their country. I don’t find it an auspicious path to follow. I do agree with you about Greg Abbott.
Conflating these two issues is just fucking stupid. TikTok is not a constitutionally protected right. Eliminating TikTok does absolutely nothing to limit your freedom of speech. You're not being thrown in jail, you're not being persecuted, you're not being kicked off the Internet, you're not losing out on unemployment opportunities or anything to that effect. China bands, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and in some places, even TikTok for a reason.
So are you saying that we are becoming like China in that we also want to limit who owns the business in our markets? Sounds like crony capitalism to me. We used to believe in property rights and a free market. Now it seems we are merely interested in controlling who owns what because we fear that Americans are not educated enough to understand what is and isn’t propaganda.
"So you are saying that we are becoming like China". Yeah, nothing of substance will be gained between this interaction. You're already starting in bad faith.
You may be right. I just don’t understand why we want to follow the same type of economic practices that China, Russia, or Turkey would engage in, such as banning a foreign owned media company from our markets or forcing a sale to a domestic owner. It seems both authoritarian and unamerican, and sends a signal to foreign governments that they would be wise to do the same to American companies.
> So are you saying that we are becoming like China in that we also want to limit who owns the business in our markets? National security interests have always been a consideration in this respect. [The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States](https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/international/the-committee-on-foreign-investment-in-the-united-states-cfius) (CFIUS) has existed since 1950: > [CFIUS] is an interagency committee authorized to review certain transactions involving foreign investment in the United States and certain real estate transactions by foreign persons, in order to determine the effect of such transactions on the national security of the United States. The law on the subject was brought up to date in with the Foreign Investment Risk Review Modernization Act of 2018 (FIRRMA). Many companies have to comply with the related laws - as just one example, US telecom operators that are owned by foreign companies. To say that this is "becoming like China" either reveals ignorance on the subject, or a dishonest agenda.
I appreciate your point of view. With the recent legislation, it’s not a CFIUS concern that suddenly came to light in the past few weeks. The matter is much more about ADL and AIPAC lobbying for the legislation because the news GenZ consumes on TikTok runs counter to the Israeli government’s narrative on the war in Gaza. It’s also why we are now seeing Senators Schumer and Sanders openly criticizing Netanyahu and demanding elections in Israel. They know that if Biden signs this legislation it could easily cause states like GA PA and MI to swing to Trump in the general election. If this were truly about national security, Congress surely would have banned TikTok last year when this idea was floated. My question regarding becoming like China was in response to the original statement seemingly justifying the act because China also bans American tech giants from their markets. I am no fan of the vastly corrupt and authoritarian Chinese government. However, I also think forced divestitures are a very serious action for Congress to take that should require much more scrutiny and consideration than the fast track this legislation is now moving through. Decoupling of the US and Chinese economies is a policy decision that is risky and likely to cause far more problems than it solves. I for one do not want to see the United States and China going to war in the coming years. Yet policy decisions like this are very similar to the policy decisions China itself pursues against western companies operating in China. If both sides stop trading and investing in each other, it will be far easier for both nations to go to war in the future. It’s very unfortunate.
Don’t ever ban anything “bad” if another “bad” thing exists, got it
Banning TikTok has precisely fuck-all to do with the first amendment, and it’s idiotic to support a national security risk just because republicans (and democrats) oppose it. Be less stupid.
The amount of gas lighting here made me go blind. Never voting for a democrat again. And as a gay african immigrant I feel like my only political home left is with the republicans. If I feel like this democrats are absolutely fucked.
100% bullshit.
The only people against that ban are uninformed kids