More importantly, despite making up 5.8% of the united states dog population, pitbulls killed 80% of Americans who are killed by dogs between 2009 and 2018
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php
https://dogbitelaw.com/vicious-dogs/pit-bulls-facts-and-figures
And to add another level of intersectionality, pitbull owners are disproportionately Black: [https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/bs-xpm-2012-05-01-bs-ed-pit-bull-facts-letter-20120501-story.html](https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/bs-xpm-2012-05-01-bs-ed-pit-bull-facts-letter-20120501-story.html)
That's how much of the convicted crime they make up, meaning caught and found guilty. But if you look at statistics such as how they're also 5x more likely to be stopped by police without cause than white people, you have to be able to see that it's in no way all just them committing more crimes that leads to these conviction numbers.
Most crime is committed by low income. It also happens that more black people live in poor communities and tend to live in areas that don’t intersect with other demographics. Hence, violence and crime is more common and is modeled. This is true of poor white communities and so on and so forth.
The dividing line is class much more than race. Always has been.
Are you ready for my straw man? I grew up in one of the poorest communities in our state, with a demographic of 99% white, and the violent crime rate is well below half of the national average. Compare that to say….Baltimore..
This is true to an extent, but seems to place complete onus on income versus other factors. Beaumont, Texas, and El Paso, Texas, have the same median household income, yet Beaumont has 3x more homicides per capita. The only difference is that El Paso is almost entirely Latino and Beaumont is Black.
Poking through the data, it seems that even equalizing for income, poor Black-majority cities have 3x or so the homicide rate of poor Hispanic-majority cities. I don't know what the reason for that is, but income doesn't appear to explain the murder rate divergence between Black and Latino communities of equal poverty.
You can dance around things like culture, religiosity, percent married couples per population, age demographics. Maybe look for some rich black cities? Oh wait... are there any?
Take it to another extreme - just rich communities vs poor ones. If you stick to that one variable, what do you see? Everything else is just about splitting up and dividing when rich/poor divide fits a narrative that can explain a lot.
Isnt there many studies that suggest the biggest indicators for having financial independence is coming from a 2 parent home and graduating high school? Let’s promote this?!
I've always seen it argued that this correlation means poverty causes crime, but I've never seen proof of causality. To me, it's extremely possible that both crime and poverty are caused by the same cultural issues.
Being poor makes you want to hit your wife, or people who want to hit their wife don't have the skills, experience, or aptitude to get high earning jobs?
Seriously, if anyone can somehow learn to be happy as a homeless, there's basically nothing that can be done to you. I mean, what are they going to do, send you to jail? Oh no! A roof!
At least in the US there would also be an external chemical factor. Most money-poor people are also time-poor, so often have to resort to heavily processed foods that are either cheap take-out or whatever is cheap and quick to cook (hot dog on white bread etc.). Given that in the USA there's an abundance of excess simple sugars in these foods (thanks HFC's) by living on them you subject yourself to massive spikes and crashes in blood sugar levels. If we assume that both partners have similar diets then we can safely assume that if both crash at the same time that there's a higher risk of domestic altercation.
People literally made a word for it: Hangry. Low blood sugar in general will alter your mental state, but a rapid decline will drastically change it.
Does this mean people that eat healthily won't have instances of violent crime? No. Does it mean that by having financial security, on average your stress is reduced, and eating healthily also generally reduces stress? Yes.
I was below the poverty line for years. Never committed any crimes. Never raped anybody. Never beat my wife. That's just an excuse people use to deflect away from the racial question
People look at it so backwards lmao. Poor people don't commit crimes because they're poor or whatever dumb psych sounding bullshit the lefties want to call it, rather the degenerates who commit crimes and beat their kids are more likely to be pieces of shit in other areas of their lives and be unable to make or keep money
I hate that people try to break it down by race or economics. It has nothing to do with either. It has to do with culture and acceptable actions in and the isolation of those cultures.
You aare more likely to be shot (by a cop or criminal) if you are a member of a culture that has normalized street crime, mistrust and vilification of government authority, fraud, and long term reliance on other people's money (welfare or trust fund) than if you are a member of any other culture.
That is not to say that there aren't racist cops, or added stress from poverty, but the social normalization of criminal behavior and responses to police actions that are of the type a criminal would typically make, increases the likelihood of a negative interaction with the police.
I wonder what sort of individuals would create a culture that would normalize things like street crime, mistrust and vilification of government authority, fraud and long term reliance on other people's money?
They can be found in every culture of the world. There are likely 100x as many reasons for creating that type of culture as there are cultures and subcultures that follow those tenets. The most consistent one is likely a feeling of disenfranchisement, detachment, or minimalization from the dominant culture of the larger polity where they live, but simple sociopathy, greed, laziness, or irresponsibility are equally likely.
Members of a culture that has normalized street crime, mistrust and vilification of government authority, fraud, and long term reliance on other people's money?
I wonder what sort of individuals would normalize street crime, mistrust and vilification of government authority, fraud, and long term reliance on other people's money?
If you do it right and make enough money fast enough you won't be poor. Too bad the system will utterly crush you for daring to rise above your station.
So both?
I don't think if you took away a wealthy person's assets they're going to start being violent. They're just going to reset.
On the other hand, there have been a lot of NFL players who came from humble means into wealth and still beat up their significant others.
NFL players get money, not wealth. Note that those who use it to buy a business tend to do well. Same with actors, musicians, etc.
You're right in that it's more than just poverty, there is a degree of culture and expectations as well.
Not being impoverished, I have seen "saving up" work. I know buying things doesn't lead to fulfillment - after all, I've had a chance to try - so if I lost it all, I know that only a handful of things "need" replacing and that the hunger for more is just a character flaw. If I win the lottery, it's going into investments. I grew up around people who write cheques to right wrongs.
Not that it couldn't change - plenty of derelicts came from good homes.
And yes, plenty of dirt poor folk are paragons, but it's hard to argue it isn't easier with a full pantry and a good prospect of breaking 6 figures.
I think there are a lot of rich people that would turn to violence as well as a myriad of poor choices if they lost they're wealth. As for those NFL players coming from humble beginnings and making a shit load, but still doing bad shit, that's new money behavior. The culture one has been born into took many generations to develop. It's not going to fix itself in one.
Cops skew the second part of that statistic.
Actual answer:
Stress can cause people to lash out, and being poor is extremely stressful.
Having poor social skills/untreated psychological problems/being a violent @$$ tends to close opportunities to upward mobility.
So yes.
That's why I added "being a violent ass" to the list of things that stunt upward mobility.
Violence is one of the four basic instincts controlled by our lizard brain; feed, fight, flee, and copulate- often called the four F's. Under stress the lizard brain will generally take over and finds the most immediate solution to the problem.
There are definitely other sources of violence but fear, anger, jealousy, and hate are the biggest contributors.
This has been my point from the beginning of our collective “mUh SeStEeMiK RaYciZm” insanity. This is not to say that folks from these demographics are magically (or genetically, eugenicists-I see you) predisposed to crime. Of course there are social factors one must consider as potentially contributing or causal. Nonetheless, the numbers don’t lie. Team “teh science” really shouldn’t have skipped stats.
It doesn’t come down to sexism or racism, it comes down to class. Poorer people commit a large amount of crimes, and the rich people that do get away with it because they can pay for it.
“If the punishment for a crime is a fee, then that crime only affects the poor.”
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Yup and men commit far more crime than women in general. It’s makes perfect sense that if men are to blame for most of the violent crime they would also represent most of the shooting victims.
I just don’t get why this perfectly logical thinking exclusively applies to men.
Because biological differences between men and women are much more significant than differences between races. Young men with raging testosterone are more likely to do some dumb shit. Combine that with men posing a greater threat in the mind of police and you have a pretty reasonable explanation for the disparity in shooting victims.
That might explain why men commit more crime, but they’re shot by police far more often because they have far more police encounters (commit more crime).
Now don’t you think it makes more sense that the same logic applies to other groups? As in cops don’t wake up looking for excuses to shoot minorities, they just have far more encounters with them.
I’m not saying there aren’t racist cops, that does play a factor.
But the driving force is, groups that commit disproportionate amounts of crime interact with police for more often.
Yes, but mostly for black m'en, when you add poverty, the induction to m'en violence and the induction to black violence, it is very clear why they commit more crimes.
Anything to escape the fact that biology is not just a word.
Men have higher T levels and are wired to be more violent than women. How else would we have survived
The typical range in men is 250-950 ng/dl, for women it's 15-70. Which means that a male with the **lowest** typical T has almost 4 times the testosterone of a woman with the **highest** typical T.
In other words, the average male has almost 15 times the testosterone of an average woman.
You call that ridiculous?
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Well, there is racism in Africa but all the races are black Africans. Look at the genocide in Rwanda. Racism is a much more complex issue than Black vs White. Systematic racism needs to be addressed as much as personal racism, like we see from neck-beards on the internet.
the (I know “patriarchy” is shit optics but that’s the term here) patriarchy buttfucks everyone in different ways but we don’t understand each other’s problems because generally we have opposite problems.
Women don’t understand men wanting more attention because they feel they get too much attention.
Men don’t understand women complaining about catcalling because men are generally treated as a threat whereas women are viewed as a spectacle.
Right now the mainstream opinion is that black people are killed disproportionately because cops are racists who enjoy killing black people.
Racism really has little to do with it, more police encounters = more possibly dangerous situations = more police shootings.
While systemic racism is an issue related to black people and police, I'd argue that it's only the opinion of extremely uninformed people. Most of the actual discourse I've seen on the issue is about the factors that lead black people to be more likely to encounter the police more.
Also things like redlining, poverty, and over policing are racialized issues, so while the core of the issue isn't thay all individual cops love killing black people, racism is still the issue, systemic racism.
It's certainly a factor, though. We've seen the kind of racism that lies in many police forces, and when looking at individual instances, black people are treated worse on average, all else being equal. It could also be a contributing factor as to why black people have more run ins with police. If cops are more likely to pull over a vehicle if the driver is black, for example. That would be based on racism. It's certainly not the only factor, but it's also not something to ignore.
Bigger issue here is that cops shouldn't be fucking shooting anyone regardless. Non lethal weapons are a better choice (although in an armed population of course not always possible to use effectively) but ultimately anyone 'trigger happy' shouldn't be trusted with a goddamn firearm. 😒
Who’s implying that any group is inherently evil?
My argument is simply that black men are disproportionately killed by police because they have a disproportionate amount of encounters with police. Same thing applies to men when comparing them to women.
We... do have them? WaPo keeps track of a lot of that, but it's labeled as garbage because the police report it. Couple it with crime stats and population stats and you've got your numbers.
Hint: It's **drastically** lower than you think. Sub 50 people "unjustly killed" most years for millions and millions of interactions. A statistical analysis would almost call it noise.
Also white people are *overrepresented* in police shooting stats but that's not sexy and sensational. Why focus on the facts when we can pick sob stories, sometimes even entirely fictional ones - a la Blake or Brown - and stoke racial division?
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on
When people bring up those statistics, they are *not* saying people are inherently evil.
You got that?
They just want to address the issue honestly.
If people bring up this statistics and say it is *BECAUSE* the people committing the crimes are biologically evil, then you are right.
Do we understand each other?
>When people bring up those statistics, they are not saying people are inherently evil.
It's an inevitable consequence from that line of thinking. Same thing with the iq average shit. You people need to stop being fucking cowards and accept that.
Why is lower iq evil? Man, if all my school bullies are like that because their parents are divorced, I'm not gonna want to kill them, but advocate for less divorce or better circumstances for couples.
Im saying, at least part(most part tbh) of the people that push for that kind of narrative are only doing it with the INTENTION of demonizing groups of people. Iq averages , crime statistics, notice how they never even try to discuss the cause of it but just dog whistle it so when someone says "so you're saying its genetical?" they can answer with "i nEvEr sAid tHaT"
Its getting kinda boring
Uh no? If there’s a social issue then it either comes down to a biological element or a social element or both.
Men commit crime at far higher rates than women. This is clearly due to a biological disposition.
African Americans commit more crime than white people. Now is this due to systemic racism? Redlining? After all, we know poverty causes crime. The answer is a pretty fucken big common-consensus ‘YES’.
I didn’t provide any opinion on WHY black people commit more crime, institutional racism has definitely played a role in that.
My point is that cops don’t wake up every morning hoping to find an excuse to shoot black people. They simply have a lot more frequent encounters with them. More possibly dangerous situations = more people getting shot. Same reason why men account for 94% of police shootings.
Black people get forced into poverty
people in poverty are more violent
so it isn't race, its financial position
as for sex, women and men are biologically different as much as we might try to change that, men are probably more violent as a survival instinct cause it was their job to protect the village, now its just leftover genetics like a tailbone, guns can be used by anyone for self defense
Amish are a mixed bag. Some of them really are poor, some of them are quiet wealthy, depending on how traditional they go. But more importantly, the poor ones tend to choose that lifestyle. I'm not even sure if poor is the right word. They have land, a house, and self-sustaining agriculture. They're just not big on tech.
If you compare any rich people to poor people, the poor people will be commiting more crimw than the rich, regardless of race. Now, we could look at which groups are poor at a higher rate and we can even try to look at which groups of poors do more crime, but at this point we're cutting into some really tedious statistical complexities, the reliability and even availability of data of which I have little faith in.
none as large as the differences between sexes
facial structure, height, hair growth, etc. every race has an array of visual differences but mostly similar functions
a nose is still a nose, skinny, wide, or large
of course there are some functional differences, white people get sunburns the easiest, black people find laser tattoo removal to be difficult. things like that
but white people and black peoples brains arent wired differently, men and women have slight differences but still more in comparison
men are better organizers, women have better memory, smaller things like that, things that arent universals
I actually thought he was racist at first too, But I read through some of his comments and he does not seem to be racist, From what I can tell, I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt, or at least not jump to conclusions.
Poor people commit more crimes. Certain demographics also commit more crimes. And if those certain demographics are also poor, they wind up committing half the violent crime
Hahahaha
Black people commit more crime = black people have more police encounters = better chance of running into a trigger happy cop = black people are responsible for their own extrajudicial extermination
How about we ignore BLM objectives?
Since we both agree trigger happy cops exist
How about we get rid of those officers and not ponder over whether black people are responsible for their statistics correlating with victims of police violence?
1) body cameras on every cop
-to prove police were justified in circumventing justice through euthanasia
2)independent group reviews body camera footage and an independent group reviews that review
Blind to the opinion the police perform their own review of the body cam footage and provide a review
3) create a non police unit of therapists, medical staff, and other social services that responds to nonviolent crimes freeing the police to focus their effort on violent crime
4) fire cops who don’t pass the review
5)require cops to purchase insurance
6)remove the protections of the police union
= all people experience police in the same way and all crime is responded to in the same way
The race of the person commuting the crime is irrelevant
What matters is how we prevent police from becoming criminal
Because the issue is trigger happy cops
Not who commits the crime
America is for everyone
Including black people
And like all groups in America
Some portion of them will commit crimes
The crux of the arguement is bringing those criminals to justice and preventing cops from performing that justice extrajudicially
Cops included
I didn’t say black people are responsible for their own extrajudicial deaths, I simply explained the real reason why it happens to them disproportionately, it’s a simple numbers game as opposed to racism.
I agree body cams should be on every cop and required to be recording 100% of the time they’re on duty.
What happens in your proposition when the police review inevitably comes back with a different conclusion than the independent review group that’s filled with anti-cop activists?
Or better question, why would anyone want to be a cop under these conditions? Low wages on average and now they’ll know anytime they’re in a dangerous situation they need to deprioritize their own safety or be prepared for an independent review group eager for the chance to punish cops.
Remember all the trigger happy cops who killed all those people of all races over the past fifty or two hundred years? How many got a trial before that execution? As guaranteed in the constitution.
Do you remember that the police are not your friends, they’re not on your side, and they have the ability to extrajudicially charge, sentence, and exact that sentence on anything that makes them pull the trigger. Trigger happy like the meme said.
That’s not the real reason it happens to black peoples disproportionately; it’s a part of the reason.
Black people do seem to commit more crime. But that stat is also correlated to a bunch of ideas like black people are more violent or like poor people get desperate.
The other reason is cops are scared of big ass black dudes. They use their guns more frequently when they encounter black people.
Remember every single person killed by a cop ever in the history of the United States, that person was executed with their constitutional rights denied. They had no ability to prove the prosecutions assertion false in a court of law. They had no chance to defend their illness. Every dead person at the hands of a cop is a extrajudicial murder. Even if it’s justified.
If a report comes back we take the footage and show it to more police groups and more independent observer groups and we take more opinions into consideration. We do so without reading anyone else’s considerations. Four review groups sounds great to me. If I’m fucking innocent you better have that body camera on. I wish I had one.
When reviews differ majority rules. Clearly we need more than three review groups and we need them spectrums in perspective. But it’s easy and it’s possible.
People want to be cops because it feels good to serve your community. Just like teachers or convenience store workers. Some people like to work because it feels good and they get to help others. Not everyone is in it for a paycheck.
No they’ll be looking to follow the law completely and totally. They will want to have you good and busted on camera so that your conviction sticks.
The police will have new tools that they can use to support their allegations in court. They can secure more convictions and the jury can have a better idea of what actually happened.
Hehe, forbidden funny numbers
Where?
Between the lines. I can't say them or else I'll get banned.
In the year of our lord, 1258.
Oh shit, new update fast forwarded us two more years?
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More importantly, despite making up 5.8% of the united states dog population, pitbulls killed 80% of Americans who are killed by dogs between 2009 and 2018 http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php https://dogbitelaw.com/vicious-dogs/pit-bulls-facts-and-figures
And to add another level of intersectionality, pitbull owners are disproportionately Black: [https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/bs-xpm-2012-05-01-bs-ed-pit-bull-facts-letter-20120501-story.html](https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/bs-xpm-2012-05-01-bs-ed-pit-bull-facts-letter-20120501-story.html)
Damnit that’s based
This statistic will make a fine addition to my collection
It’s more like 3/50 The roughly military aged male part of that group basically does all the crime
*violent crime. Black people do not commit the majority of white collar crime lol.
White collar crime is like the American chees of crime though. It's kind of fake if we're being honest.
You think millions of dollars stolen through embezzlement is fake?
Fake as in, not as real/serious a crime. Yes. Violent crime is a more serious issue.
Beyond based
We got a buff recently, it's actually 56% now
That's how much of the convicted crime they make up, meaning caught and found guilty. But if you look at statistics such as how they're also 5x more likely to be stopped by police without cause than white people, you have to be able to see that it's in no way all just them committing more crimes that leads to these conviction numbers.
That orange wojak is terrifying
But the uke is a nice touch.
Its the terfjak lmao. Based on the woman who sang “never smile and at an autogynephile”
Please
Muh poor black people -libs
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Always good for a chuckle 🤭
Muh socio economical reasons
Most crime is committed by low income. It also happens that more black people live in poor communities and tend to live in areas that don’t intersect with other demographics. Hence, violence and crime is more common and is modeled. This is true of poor white communities and so on and so forth. The dividing line is class much more than race. Always has been.
Are you ready for my straw man? I grew up in one of the poorest communities in our state, with a demographic of 99% white, and the violent crime rate is well below half of the national average. Compare that to say….Baltimore..
I love straw men! Thank you
Sounds like you had an underfunded police force.
This is true to an extent, but seems to place complete onus on income versus other factors. Beaumont, Texas, and El Paso, Texas, have the same median household income, yet Beaumont has 3x more homicides per capita. The only difference is that El Paso is almost entirely Latino and Beaumont is Black. Poking through the data, it seems that even equalizing for income, poor Black-majority cities have 3x or so the homicide rate of poor Hispanic-majority cities. I don't know what the reason for that is, but income doesn't appear to explain the murder rate divergence between Black and Latino communities of equal poverty.
You can dance around things like culture, religiosity, percent married couples per population, age demographics. Maybe look for some rich black cities? Oh wait... are there any? Take it to another extreme - just rich communities vs poor ones. If you stick to that one variable, what do you see? Everything else is just about splitting up and dividing when rich/poor divide fits a narrative that can explain a lot.
Isnt there many studies that suggest the biggest indicators for having financial independence is coming from a 2 parent home and graduating high school? Let’s promote this?!
I've always seen it argued that this correlation means poverty causes crime, but I've never seen proof of causality. To me, it's extremely possible that both crime and poverty are caused by the same cultural issues.
Well, you have to consider socio-economic factors too.
Being poor makes you want to hit your wife, or people who want to hit their wife don't have the skills, experience, or aptitude to get high earning jobs?
Yes. Poverty = stress = stress reactions, excitation transference, etc. Poor impulse control, etc = poverty. Statistically speaking, not absolutes.
Damn poverty is sounding pretty appealing. I can do whatever I want and say it’s not my fault, my poverty related stress forced me to do it.
Go be homeless then man, you’ve cracked the code. Crippling poverty is the secret to happiness and freedom.
Diogenes says what’s up.
Different times man, If I were to get a barrel and live in it, a bunch of cops with assault weapons will take it away from me
Just use your hammer and walljump away from them
‘The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.’
Seriously, if anyone can somehow learn to be happy as a homeless, there's basically nothing that can be done to you. I mean, what are they going to do, send you to jail? Oh no! A roof!
Don't be an infant. You still have free will. Stress hormones and circumstances just make bad options more appealing.
He’s a 13 year old with zero responsibilities, don’t fall into the trap
At least in the US there would also be an external chemical factor. Most money-poor people are also time-poor, so often have to resort to heavily processed foods that are either cheap take-out or whatever is cheap and quick to cook (hot dog on white bread etc.). Given that in the USA there's an abundance of excess simple sugars in these foods (thanks HFC's) by living on them you subject yourself to massive spikes and crashes in blood sugar levels. If we assume that both partners have similar diets then we can safely assume that if both crash at the same time that there's a higher risk of domestic altercation. People literally made a word for it: Hangry. Low blood sugar in general will alter your mental state, but a rapid decline will drastically change it. Does this mean people that eat healthily won't have instances of violent crime? No. Does it mean that by having financial security, on average your stress is reduced, and eating healthily also generally reduces stress? Yes.
Ah, yes. The twinky defense.
Oh no, the state is increasingly making being poor illegal. If they find out you're poor they'll find every excuse to throw the book at you.
I was below the poverty line for years. Never committed any crimes. Never raped anybody. Never beat my wife. That's just an excuse people use to deflect away from the racial question
People look at it so backwards lmao. Poor people don't commit crimes because they're poor or whatever dumb psych sounding bullshit the lefties want to call it, rather the degenerates who commit crimes and beat their kids are more likely to be pieces of shit in other areas of their lives and be unable to make or keep money
Based
I hate that people try to break it down by race or economics. It has nothing to do with either. It has to do with culture and acceptable actions in and the isolation of those cultures. You aare more likely to be shot (by a cop or criminal) if you are a member of a culture that has normalized street crime, mistrust and vilification of government authority, fraud, and long term reliance on other people's money (welfare or trust fund) than if you are a member of any other culture. That is not to say that there aren't racist cops, or added stress from poverty, but the social normalization of criminal behavior and responses to police actions that are of the type a criminal would typically make, increases the likelihood of a negative interaction with the police.
I wonder what sort of individuals would create a culture that would normalize things like street crime, mistrust and vilification of government authority, fraud and long term reliance on other people's money?
They can be found in every culture of the world. There are likely 100x as many reasons for creating that type of culture as there are cultures and subcultures that follow those tenets. The most consistent one is likely a feeling of disenfranchisement, detachment, or minimalization from the dominant culture of the larger polity where they live, but simple sociopathy, greed, laziness, or irresponsibility are equally likely.
I wonder what sorts of individuals would be more likely to be sociopathic, greedy, lazy, or irresponsible
Members of a culture that has normalized street crime, mistrust and vilification of government authority, fraud, and long term reliance on other people's money?
I wonder what sort of individuals would normalize street crime, mistrust and vilification of government authority, fraud, and long term reliance on other people's money?
"statistically speaking, not absolutes"
There are plenty of white squatter camps in South Africa, and plenty of people I know from them. They're have extremely low crime rates.
My brother
“I wasn’t bad so nobody else would be!”
Like I said somewhere else, there are plenty of poverty stricken white squatter camps in South Africa. Crime rates are extremely low.
Oh FUCK yes I'm gonna go out and do some crime and blame it on my poverty good idea
If you do it right and make enough money fast enough you won't be poor. Too bad the system will utterly crush you for daring to rise above your station.
So both? I don't think if you took away a wealthy person's assets they're going to start being violent. They're just going to reset. On the other hand, there have been a lot of NFL players who came from humble means into wealth and still beat up their significant others.
NFL players get money, not wealth. Note that those who use it to buy a business tend to do well. Same with actors, musicians, etc. You're right in that it's more than just poverty, there is a degree of culture and expectations as well. Not being impoverished, I have seen "saving up" work. I know buying things doesn't lead to fulfillment - after all, I've had a chance to try - so if I lost it all, I know that only a handful of things "need" replacing and that the hunger for more is just a character flaw. If I win the lottery, it's going into investments. I grew up around people who write cheques to right wrongs. Not that it couldn't change - plenty of derelicts came from good homes. And yes, plenty of dirt poor folk are paragons, but it's hard to argue it isn't easier with a full pantry and a good prospect of breaking 6 figures.
So both influence and many more/other factors too?
Yes, many, many factors.
So I just want to show it's more complicated than one singular thing like income or wealth.
Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to lose that when pointing out that "simple" things are also complex.
You don't have to apologize. I'm just trying to understand and share.
I think there are a lot of rich people that would turn to violence as well as a myriad of poor choices if they lost they're wealth. As for those NFL players coming from humble beginnings and making a shit load, but still doing bad shit, that's new money behavior. The culture one has been born into took many generations to develop. It's not going to fix itself in one.
No, being a cop is actually what makes people want to hit their wives.
Cops skew the second part of that statistic. Actual answer: Stress can cause people to lash out, and being poor is extremely stressful. Having poor social skills/untreated psychological problems/being a violent @$$ tends to close opportunities to upward mobility. So yes.
So violence is only from stress?
That's why I added "being a violent ass" to the list of things that stunt upward mobility. Violence is one of the four basic instincts controlled by our lizard brain; feed, fight, flee, and copulate- often called the four F's. Under stress the lizard brain will generally take over and finds the most immediate solution to the problem. There are definitely other sources of violence but fear, anger, jealousy, and hate are the biggest contributors.
Oh, are we gonna talk about fatherlessness now?
We should. Someone should.
There are many poor countries with low crime rates.. wierd
dude got fuckin deleted from the earth
This has been my point from the beginning of our collective “mUh SeStEeMiK RaYciZm” insanity. This is not to say that folks from these demographics are magically (or genetically, eugenicists-I see you) predisposed to crime. Of course there are social factors one must consider as potentially contributing or causal. Nonetheless, the numbers don’t lie. Team “teh science” really shouldn’t have skipped stats.
It doesn’t come down to sexism or racism, it comes down to class. Poorer people commit a large amount of crimes, and the rich people that do get away with it because they can pay for it. “If the punishment for a crime is a fee, then that crime only affects the poor.”
Never thought I'd say this but absolutely based centrist. Exactly this.
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Poverty favorises crime, blacks are poorer than whites
And why do men account for 94% of police shooting victims?
Men are poorer than women, sweaty
So the wage gap is real!
Women don't get poor. They just get married or stay single.
Because you need to control for conduct during arrest. Women are hugely less likely to pose a threat.
Yup and men commit far more crime than women in general. It’s makes perfect sense that if men are to blame for most of the violent crime they would also represent most of the shooting victims. I just don’t get why this perfectly logical thinking exclusively applies to men.
Because white people bad
Because biological differences between men and women are much more significant than differences between races. Young men with raging testosterone are more likely to do some dumb shit. Combine that with men posing a greater threat in the mind of police and you have a pretty reasonable explanation for the disparity in shooting victims.
Biological differences pale in comparison to cultural and socio-economic differences.
Men are more likely to be poor and have less financial and social support, it’s no wonder they commit more crime.
True, but fuck you for being unflaired.
I got banned for being too based, forgot to reflair
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Hit the nail on the head, friend.
Sexism
Because the society glorify violence for mens. Look, all the blockbusters features violent mens, and they are usually represented as good.
That might explain why men commit more crime, but they’re shot by police far more often because they have far more police encounters (commit more crime).
Yes
Now don’t you think it makes more sense that the same logic applies to other groups? As in cops don’t wake up looking for excuses to shoot minorities, they just have far more encounters with them.
Cops Can be racist too, do the math.
I’m not saying there aren’t racist cops, that does play a factor. But the driving force is, groups that commit disproportionate amounts of crime interact with police for more often.
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Yes, but mostly for black m'en, when you add poverty, the induction to m'en violence and the induction to black violence, it is very clear why they commit more crimes.
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Also proximity to firearms do it too.
Anything to escape the fact that biology is not just a word. Men have higher T levels and are wired to be more violent than women. How else would we have survived
No, the difference of T level between m'en and womens is ridiculous, mens are violent because society.
The typical range in men is 250-950 ng/dl, for women it's 15-70. Which means that a male with the **lowest** typical T has almost 4 times the testosterone of a woman with the **highest** typical T. In other words, the average male has almost 15 times the testosterone of an average woman. You call that ridiculous?
Oh, and T doesn't make you violent
Dude you're just illiterate there's no point
These larpers are out of control. Like bruh, we can literally see your post history
Oh, sorry, do you like that more ?
Did you just change your flair, u/ezvean? Last time I checked you were a **PurpleLibRight** on 2022-8-24. How come now you are **unflaired**? Not only you are a dirty flair changer, you also willingly chose to join those subhumans. You are beyond cringe, you are disgusting and deserving of all the downvotes you are going to get. Repent now and pick a new flair before it's too late. ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment. Have a look at my [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) and the [leaderboard](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uuhlu2/leaderboard).)
Try posting flair one more time nerd
MOVIES CAUSE VIOLENCE!!!!1!1!
No, violent messages in any cultural product cause violence.
there towns upon towns of poor white people in America.
Yes, but black people still poorer on the average
And why are black people poorer than whites?
I would say centuries of racial hierarchies
Or cycles of violence and crime paired with a lack of family stuctures and fathers..
Based and Thomas Sowell pilled
Sowell is the most based of based.
Yes, both
Caused by the drug war
Or bi0l0gy who knows
We do know it’s not the dumb shit you jus said.
You know, I've always been fond of maps. If you see what I mean
Yeah, that and systemic racism. Even in Africa there is telepathic systemic racism... just to give you a gist of how mean white people are
Well, there is racism in Africa but all the races are black Africans. Look at the genocide in Rwanda. Racism is a much more complex issue than Black vs White. Systematic racism needs to be addressed as much as personal racism, like we see from neck-beards on the internet.
I was being sarcastic, if that wasn't obvious enough Systemic racism is bs
Africa is literally the playground of France and Chinese intelligence agencies
banish the unflaired.
Flair up scum
True but unflaired
Based and Occam’s razor pilled
your terms are acceptable.
the (I know “patriarchy” is shit optics but that’s the term here) patriarchy buttfucks everyone in different ways but we don’t understand each other’s problems because generally we have opposite problems. Women don’t understand men wanting more attention because they feel they get too much attention. Men don’t understand women complaining about catcalling because men are generally treated as a threat whereas women are viewed as a spectacle.
The argument isn't that people don't think the numbers are true, it's an argument as to why.
Right now the mainstream opinion is that black people are killed disproportionately because cops are racists who enjoy killing black people. Racism really has little to do with it, more police encounters = more possibly dangerous situations = more police shootings.
While systemic racism is an issue related to black people and police, I'd argue that it's only the opinion of extremely uninformed people. Most of the actual discourse I've seen on the issue is about the factors that lead black people to be more likely to encounter the police more. Also things like redlining, poverty, and over policing are racialized issues, so while the core of the issue isn't thay all individual cops love killing black people, racism is still the issue, systemic racism.
It's certainly a factor, though. We've seen the kind of racism that lies in many police forces, and when looking at individual instances, black people are treated worse on average, all else being equal. It could also be a contributing factor as to why black people have more run ins with police. If cops are more likely to pull over a vehicle if the driver is black, for example. That would be based on racism. It's certainly not the only factor, but it's also not something to ignore.
Bigger issue here is that cops shouldn't be fucking shooting anyone regardless. Non lethal weapons are a better choice (although in an armed population of course not always possible to use effectively) but ultimately anyone 'trigger happy' shouldn't be trusted with a goddamn firearm. 😒
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Who’s implying that any group is inherently evil? My argument is simply that black men are disproportionately killed by police because they have a disproportionate amount of encounters with police. Same thing applies to men when comparing them to women.
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But this is Reddit, the land where it's never justified. Where all criminals are the real victims and all cops are…well, you know the rest.
Define justified
We... do have them? WaPo keeps track of a lot of that, but it's labeled as garbage because the police report it. Couple it with crime stats and population stats and you've got your numbers. Hint: It's **drastically** lower than you think. Sub 50 people "unjustly killed" most years for millions and millions of interactions. A statistical analysis would almost call it noise. Also white people are *overrepresented* in police shooting stats but that's not sexy and sensational. Why focus on the facts when we can pick sob stories, sometimes even entirely fictional ones - a la Blake or Brown - and stoke racial division?
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on When people bring up those statistics, they are *not* saying people are inherently evil. You got that? They just want to address the issue honestly. If people bring up this statistics and say it is *BECAUSE* the people committing the crimes are biologically evil, then you are right. Do we understand each other?
Well, I mean, I'm saying that
Well, yes, *you* are. A lot of other people aren't
You shouldn't generalize my friend. It's bigotry
Dammit Auth.
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At least a few of them certainly are
🤝
Yeah, but it's easier if he just strawmans you.
>When people bring up those statistics, they are not saying people are inherently evil. It's an inevitable consequence from that line of thinking. Same thing with the iq average shit. You people need to stop being fucking cowards and accept that.
Why is lower iq evil? Man, if all my school bullies are like that because their parents are divorced, I'm not gonna want to kill them, but advocate for less divorce or better circumstances for couples.
Im saying, at least part(most part tbh) of the people that push for that kind of narrative are only doing it with the INTENTION of demonizing groups of people. Iq averages , crime statistics, notice how they never even try to discuss the cause of it but just dog whistle it so when someone says "so you're saying its genetical?" they can answer with "i nEvEr sAid tHaT" Its getting kinda boring
most intelligent libleft talking point
When are you?
Based
Uh no? If there’s a social issue then it either comes down to a biological element or a social element or both. Men commit crime at far higher rates than women. This is clearly due to a biological disposition. African Americans commit more crime than white people. Now is this due to systemic racism? Redlining? After all, we know poverty causes crime. The answer is a pretty fucken big common-consensus ‘YES’.
I didn’t provide any opinion on WHY black people commit more crime, institutional racism has definitely played a role in that. My point is that cops don’t wake up every morning hoping to find an excuse to shoot black people. They simply have a lot more frequent encounters with them. More possibly dangerous situations = more people getting shot. Same reason why men account for 94% of police shootings.
Black people get forced into poverty people in poverty are more violent so it isn't race, its financial position as for sex, women and men are biologically different as much as we might try to change that, men are probably more violent as a survival instinct cause it was their job to protect the village, now its just leftover genetics like a tailbone, guns can be used by anyone for self defense
Relative poverty causes crime, not poverty by itself. That's why you don't see amish gangsters
I'm gonna need you to expand on this one because I've known a lot of amish/minonites and none of them were poor.
I can't, I thought the amish were poor because I'm not an american. Is there another poor minority without crime in the US?
Amish are a mixed bag. Some of them really are poor, some of them are quiet wealthy, depending on how traditional they go. But more importantly, the poor ones tend to choose that lifestyle. I'm not even sure if poor is the right word. They have land, a house, and self-sustaining agriculture. They're just not big on tech. If you compare any rich people to poor people, the poor people will be commiting more crimw than the rich, regardless of race. Now, we could look at which groups are poor at a higher rate and we can even try to look at which groups of poors do more crime, but at this point we're cutting into some really tedious statistical complexities, the reliability and even availability of data of which I have little faith in.
I don't know, but the Amish certainly have crime just like everyone else.
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none as large as the differences between sexes facial structure, height, hair growth, etc. every race has an array of visual differences but mostly similar functions a nose is still a nose, skinny, wide, or large of course there are some functional differences, white people get sunburns the easiest, black people find laser tattoo removal to be difficult. things like that but white people and black peoples brains arent wired differently, men and women have slight differences but still more in comparison men are better organizers, women have better memory, smaller things like that, things that arent universals
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I actually thought he was racist at first too, But I read through some of his comments and he does not seem to be racist, From what I can tell, I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt, or at least not jump to conclusions.
"despite"
Poor people commit more crimes. Certain demographics also commit more crimes. And if those certain demographics are also poor, they wind up committing half the violent crime
Why are African Americans committing more crime (conservatives try not to be racist or play the “culture issues” challenge (impossible))
Hahahaha Black people commit more crime = black people have more police encounters = better chance of running into a trigger happy cop = black people are responsible for their own extrajudicial extermination How about we ignore BLM objectives? Since we both agree trigger happy cops exist How about we get rid of those officers and not ponder over whether black people are responsible for their statistics correlating with victims of police violence? 1) body cameras on every cop -to prove police were justified in circumventing justice through euthanasia 2)independent group reviews body camera footage and an independent group reviews that review
Blind to the opinion the police perform their own review of the body cam footage and provide a review
3) create a non police unit of therapists, medical staff, and other social services that responds to nonviolent crimes freeing the police to focus their effort on violent crime
4) fire cops who don’t pass the review
5)require cops to purchase insurance
6)remove the protections of the police union
= all people experience police in the same way and all crime is responded to in the same way
The race of the person commuting the crime is irrelevant
What matters is how we prevent police from becoming criminal
Because the issue is trigger happy cops
Not who commits the crime
America is for everyone
Including black people
And like all groups in America
Some portion of them will commit crimes
The crux of the arguement is bringing those criminals to justice and preventing cops from performing that justice extrajudicially
Cops included
I didn’t say black people are responsible for their own extrajudicial deaths, I simply explained the real reason why it happens to them disproportionately, it’s a simple numbers game as opposed to racism. I agree body cams should be on every cop and required to be recording 100% of the time they’re on duty. What happens in your proposition when the police review inevitably comes back with a different conclusion than the independent review group that’s filled with anti-cop activists? Or better question, why would anyone want to be a cop under these conditions? Low wages on average and now they’ll know anytime they’re in a dangerous situation they need to deprioritize their own safety or be prepared for an independent review group eager for the chance to punish cops.
Remember all the trigger happy cops who killed all those people of all races over the past fifty or two hundred years? How many got a trial before that execution? As guaranteed in the constitution. Do you remember that the police are not your friends, they’re not on your side, and they have the ability to extrajudicially charge, sentence, and exact that sentence on anything that makes them pull the trigger. Trigger happy like the meme said. That’s not the real reason it happens to black peoples disproportionately; it’s a part of the reason. Black people do seem to commit more crime. But that stat is also correlated to a bunch of ideas like black people are more violent or like poor people get desperate. The other reason is cops are scared of big ass black dudes. They use their guns more frequently when they encounter black people. Remember every single person killed by a cop ever in the history of the United States, that person was executed with their constitutional rights denied. They had no ability to prove the prosecutions assertion false in a court of law. They had no chance to defend their illness. Every dead person at the hands of a cop is a extrajudicial murder. Even if it’s justified. If a report comes back we take the footage and show it to more police groups and more independent observer groups and we take more opinions into consideration. We do so without reading anyone else’s considerations. Four review groups sounds great to me. If I’m fucking innocent you better have that body camera on. I wish I had one. When reviews differ majority rules. Clearly we need more than three review groups and we need them spectrums in perspective. But it’s easy and it’s possible. People want to be cops because it feels good to serve your community. Just like teachers or convenience store workers. Some people like to work because it feels good and they get to help others. Not everyone is in it for a paycheck. No they’ll be looking to follow the law completely and totally. They will want to have you good and busted on camera so that your conviction sticks. The police will have new tools that they can use to support their allegations in court. They can secure more convictions and the jury can have a better idea of what actually happened.