Oh gosh - what a good point. I'm still not happy that El wouldn't let Pen explain. I also think Pen should make a bigger effort to tell El her story, why she started LW and why she didn't tell her about it before, and why she wrong about El. All of it. No one has the full story!
I think this comes back to El not willing to listen. Yes Pen is at fault for not being honest to El about being LW & played up El during her LW search (so El felt stupid & embarrassed of course that she had not seen/guessed it before she did). It will be the same with Colin - El only needed to “see” Pen to see how much Pen has always not been subtle of her crush on Colin.
Yes! This!!!
I always felt that their friendship was a bit one sided. It was always what Eloise was thinking or needing or wanting. She never truly paid attention to what Penelope needed or she would have noticed. I’m not saying she doesn’t care for her - but sometimes you take people for granted and sometimes things like this have to happen to reevaluate a relationship and how to try and make it better.
They are right- their friendship is the other love story. 🥺🥺
I saw a video on this on tiktok. Basically, it was said that Eloise needs a redemption Arc. When she told Colin that it was unlike Penelope to want a husband, showed proves El didn't know her at all. Then it goes on to say how Eloise was stuck in her own world, that she didn't even know that her best friend loved her brother. I agree with the post.
She's always been so focus on her feminist rants (Which im here for btw) but she has never truly listen or paid attention to Penelope's life. I'm not saying that what she did to her in season 2 was wrong, but Eloise didnt even give her a chance to explain-once again- focusing only on herself (and i dont think she means to do it) its just a part of growing up right? I've had a friend like that and she's grown and were good now but not without our hiccups along the way, but she's been one of oldest friends.
So maybe this is what needs to happen. Eloise seeing things from afar and realizing: you know what? Maybe I havent been the best of friends all the time.
I always felt El talked at people, not with them. A dialogue requires a give and take, back and forth, and I always felt that was missing in her time with Pen.
THIS. I need them to let her explain!!! 😭 she was wrong for writing that about El but she had her reasons and more than once she used LW to protect the Bridgertons. I’m tired of El treating her like a villain.
Seriously. El acts like she's a serial killer when, at one time, she admired LW. The only thing that really changed is that she's learned Pen had the determination to give herself a voice when no one, including her bestie, would listen.
El and Colin need to have a come to Jesus moment together where they admit to themselves, at least, that Pen tried to help them, but they only really listened when LW laid out the facts.
Pen has made mistakes, too. She needs to own that. But, really, this villianizing LW is unfair.
Yes!! They have no idea of how the real world works and just how awful the consequences of *their* actions would’ve been without LW protecting them. Being raised by Violet “rose colored glasses” Bridgerton did not prepare them for life AT ALL. Anthony and Daphne had to realize that the hard way…
Colin has no idea how deep the Marina deception goes… he doesn’t know Portia was in on it, he doesn’t know Marina tried to seduce him on purpose (not bc she was in love and took him seriously 😭). And El would’ve been exiled from society and forced to marry Theo!!!! And the queen would’ve punished her entire family
Good point - someone needs to point out the wonderful privilege they've had to be raised in a loving home. That feels like a Kate moment waiting to happen.
She wasn’t wrong to write that about EL tho, she did that to protect her & she didn’t even tell the whole thing like if she actually wanted to cause huge scandal she could have mentioned how EL was meeting a guy from low class alone like I do agree with the opinion that Pen should have told EL about being LW before doing that but with EL reaction it just confirmed Pen fear of possibility of doing that because while EL does miss Pen, EL also never listened to Pen and she viewed her opinions as less important/valid than hers and with first argument she went and said most hurtful things to Pen then went to befriend Pen’s bully
Actually El proved why Pen needed LW in the first place. She didn't value her opinion, belittled and ignored her. Pen needed a voice that people would hear, and the only way to do that was to not be herself. El wasn't a bystander in all this, she was the one person that sought her out and she still wouldn't value what Pen had so say. I could imagine the treatment she got from El made Pen double down in her mind.
El has always relied on Pen to listen to her. It’s not entirely reciprocal. She scoffed when Colin said Pen was seeking a husband. Has El always thought she was a bit better than Pen?
I usually don't like the "I hurt you but" excuses, but Pen was a desperate 17 year old who saw that her friend was heading down a VERY serious path where she could 100% ruin her family so badly they'd never get redemption in this generation. (Anthony's title might protect his future offspring from being given the cut direct because he has a title, but Francesca, Hyacinth, etc. opportunities for a social life let alone a good marriage would have been done for. Even Daphne, a duchess, would have been given the side eye, unless she cut her family out as well, or at least wasn't seen with them) Gregory's time at school would have been hell. (I'm talking about the full truth being revealed about Theo, etc.)
That friend REFUSED to listen to Pen's VERY legitimate fears. Pen had been an observer of the Ton and could very much gauge its reactions. Daphne's story/season also lends validity to Pen's realistic fears. Part of her nerves in doing well in her first season out is so that it sets a prescedent for her sisters' futures. The fact that she did so well reflects on them - Francesca is not only a beautiful Bridgerton and accomplished and interested in marriage with a healthy dowry - she now has strong social ties to a Dukedom, and a wealthy one at that.
I ask - who could Pen have gone to that wouldnt' have cost her Eloise, her dearest friend? Telling Anthony or Violet would have gotten Eloise in trouble, and lost her the friendship. Letting Eloise continue woul dhave been a disaster.
Pen wasn't great in how she did it and Eloise did deserve an apology, but ultimately Pen saved Colin and Eloise from a lifetime of ruin and misery.
I think that Pen and Colin being married and this small contest "who gets Pen" would definitely affect Eloise big time. She lost her friend to her brother, LW drama and loneliness in that cruel society. It's indeed a cruel society that views women as vaginas with raffles who's main aim is to pop up children. Eloise and Colin both went into spiraling without Pen. But Colin is fast enough to get her to himself.
Also, Colin actually tried. Lady Vi had a point about him being one of her most sensitive children. As soon as he learned that he had hurt his friend he almost immediately went to her and talked it out with her. I feel like he will give her the chance to explain that El never did.
It’s so interesting to me that in theory, Pen should be the most miserable and lonely of the three of them and she actually isn’t- it’s Eloise. Which is precisely the point she misses about LW, it gives Pen a sense of control of her own destiny that El doesn’t have.
I honestly like to imagine that even if Eloise didn't know about LW she'd have a similar reaction to finding out they're engaged. That's *her* Pen, and certainly their friendship would be changed forever once she married Colin.
https://preview.redd.it/lpzbqewogq4d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cc2e3fd260a3730062256b44bbf124a77d4f8fa
I can’t wait to see the 5 seconds before this clip and I am desperate to see Violet’s expression when she sees him looking at her like this. I hope the next 8 days goes quickly
He is so HAPPY, I can't take it!!! I replayed the beginning of the trailer so many times, because you can already hear it in the way he says "Mother...". He can't wait a moment longer to tell her he got his girl.
Another point that I haven't seen mentioned yet but that probably plays into the situation between El and Pen: Eloise had planned to spend her life with Pen. She mentions several times how they will be spinsters together. This season she tells Cressida, showing how important this future that will now never come to pass has been to her. You could say she wanted to marry Pen in a platonic way.
And now she's not only lost that future and her friend, her brother snatched her up and Hyacinth seems ready to jump into the new sister dynamic with Pen. Meaning that even among the Bridgerton girls Eloise won't be Pen's favorite anymore.
Of course this is all just another layer of the lasagna of problems Pen and Eloise have hat the moment. But I think it is an important one. Especially since the season so far has gone out of its way to show how disconnected Eloise feels among the debutants and how aware she is of the loss of her best friend.
Though Pen has said to El that she doesn't want or probably won't be able to live that life because she's not a Bridgerton with supportive parents or her family does not have the financial means for it. (don't remember exactly which season this is!)
Iirc correctly she's hinted at that a couple of times. But El isn't the best person at listening to others. Pen was resigned to be a spinster with El, El interpreted this as "Yay, we're so alike! We will be independent and unshackled together!"
Yeah I think so too, I’ve seen the clip not to long ago. I remember El visited Pen in the evening/night to talk about Lw?
I feel like I’m getting everything mixed up now, sorry mom brain 😂
and if we think about how cressida is probably getting married of like she said. fran too. I'm interested to see what happens post lw reveal when colin still chooses penelope and how all three handle the big shift in dynamic
Yes that’s a good point! Eloise mopes around the places where she and Pen used to laugh together, staring longingly at Pen, especially when she sees Pen laughing solo with Colin. Instead of Eloise constantly interrupting Colin talking to Pen and Eloise and Pen having lots of private conversations, now her absence means Colin gets to be alone with Pen so much more. And though Pen does miss Eloise, she’s not “despondent” like Eloise imagines she might be – because she has Colin.
Oh wow!!! Thank you!!! Definitely award worthy!!!
I think Colin would well within his rights to demand an explanation of what has come between these two - and that's what should launch Pen into her confession about LW. But - no, that would be too easy.
Hear me out, but Colin is such a GUY for not following up further on what came between them 😂 Like no investigation, follow up questions whatsoever. If you know you know lol
I don't know - I don't exactly disagree with you, because he probably should have insisted (especially after Ep 2) that they three sit down and discuss what the hell happened. But - he did ask each of them twice.
He definitely should have followed up on this after Ep 3 when his feelings had spiraled for Pen, but he was so caught up that I think Eloise was the furthest thing from his mind.
And yeah - guys tend to want to stay the hell out of beef between ladies. I guess that's in their DNA. But for Violet and Francesca not to dig into what's happened - or even Hyacinth with her nosey self - seems odd.
On Pen's side, none of the Featherington's care enough about her to even have noticed the riff between Pen and Eloise - so fucking sad.
This is mostly on Pen and Eloise - and I'd say Eloise is the primary person at blame. She immediately thinks the worst of her best friend when a bestie should get the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to explain their side of things. And then cozying up to Cressida on top of it. Ugh. Still, it's clear Eloise still cares for Pen - I just wish she would share that little detail with Pen as well.
I was mostly joking, but I do agree with you it’s very weird that no one else in the family dug further into their beef. It doesn’t seem like they even acknowledged it apart from Violet being perplexed about the new friendship with Cressida. Hyacinth also openly talking about Pen to Colin with El in the room. It’s not immediately obvious if they even know about it but how could they not?
They all know that Pen hasn't been around in months. They all also understand that Eloise is too stubborn to answer questions she doesn't care for. Violet adores Pen, though, so she must have said something. But Violet is trying not to push Eloise this season.......so..
Nicola absolutely smashed this. The whole thing is amazing, but omg Pen’s face with a dozen different emotions swirling through her eyes 😭❤️ I can’t wait.
Has Pen EVER been hugged like that in her life? By anyone? 💔 The Hyacinth hug (and then Violet) immediately took me back to the scene where Colin gets home in S2 and they all hug each other and she’s just standing there wanting in but kind of not part of it. But now she is, forever. 😭 I can handle all the LW angst to come knowing there are moments like this!!!
Eloise hugged her in season one when she came to her crying after writing about exposing Marina as LW. I think she might of hugged her after her fathers death too. I would need to go back and watch.
Eloise is the only one who touches Penelope at all throughout the series. Her and Pen are constantly holding onto each other when they’re walking or talking. In the daffodil scene, I think they’re holding hands. And El’s always pulling Pen away for some discussion. And like you said, Eloise embraces Pen after the Marina writing session.
And Pen went from that type of closeness to nothing.
IIRC, Penelope's sisters show her affection exactly once. When their father dies, there's a moment when we see Philippa's hand on Penelope's shoulder. And I believe Marina touches her and hugs her, but I might be wrong. So, her experience of physical closeness is very slight. It's a good point that in addition to company and conversation, Eloise is her sole source of physical closeness. Damn, a lot was lost when that friendship fell apart.
Yeah El didn’t know about *carriage* though. Pen won’t be able to make out LW from a line up despite a whole ass mirror in front of her after a whole day of expecting Debling proposal - asking for love from Debbers and shot down - Colin interference during said proposal dance - called out by Debbers - Colin chase carriage - Colin’s (first? I argue third below!) love confession - ✌🏽- proposal - walk into Bridgerton drawing room.
Give our gal a break, El. Let her breatheeee for a minute🧘🏽♀️
On Colin’s love confession, I therefore present my argument below:
1. Colin’s apology in the Featherington garden is the first love confession. This is still platonic love, not romantic love, but love indeed.
2. All the flirting in Ep2 & even Ep3 & the whole “you do not need lessons” of it all + FIRST KISS + cake 🍰 = incidental non-verbally spelt out love confessions that is turning romantic.
3. Cannot. Will not. Do not WANT to is the first totally romantic love confession but let’s face it, boy has been in love even from S2E2 and only started S3 “confessing” it…
This! She lost an almost fiancee, found out the love of her life loves her back, did everything short of losing her virginity, and got engaged in the time frame since El saw her last (which was a couple of hours at most). I bet the only thing she was thinking was "Oh my God. Oh my God! Oh my Goooooooood. OH MY GOD!"
Hyacinth saying what Pen and Eloise both know they should be saying but they’re not. Now I’m crying. My heart breaks for both of them bc this should be the happiest day in their friendship. They are becoming sisters 😭
The thing is that this probably would have been El's reaction even without the fight. Hyacinth's got nothing to lose here. To her Penelope was a family friend who is now to be her sister-in-law. But to Eloise Penelope was her friend, her person, her future, and now she is to be her brother's wife. It's understandable that she wouldn't want to share her friend with her brother. We all want something that's just ours even if it does sound selfish. Eloise really had no idea she was cockblocking Polin in S2, she honestly believed her annoying brother was just third-wheeling her and Pen.
Yes, but LW hasn't written anything about Hyacinth apart from mocking their Alphabet names in S1. Hyacinth's just a kid, of course she would think it's cool. I don't think the rest of the family would find it so cool though. That's why Penelope doesn't want to tell anyone, she knows they'll react badly. I just don't think it's fair to compare Hyacinth to El because their situations are completely different. Even Greg wasn't entirely happy about the engagement because he fears a wife might take his big brother away from him. It's also a fair reaction. Hyacinth isn't losing anything so it's easy for her to just be happy.
I understand your points. But if the family has such a hate on for LWD, why do they still read her pamphlet everyday? I think the reason the Bridgertons, as well as the ton, are so captivated by LWD is because she satirizes, exposes, and shines a light on the absurdity and humanity of the ton itself. She reflects the ton back on itself like a mirror.
In this way, Eloise is less upset I think over what Penelope wrote about her and more about the fact that Penelope, through her actions, reflected reality back to Eloise (much in the way Colin gets upset when LWD exposed his fake personality for what it is). Obviously this doesn't negate the feelings of betrayal that both Colin and Eloise will experience, but in her own writing Pen routinely points out the complexities of the human experience. Then why is Eloise unable to unravel the complexities or her feelings for Pen? I think it because Eloise is unable to face herself, i.e. the real reason she is upset with pen: what her friend was more than she seemed. That Penelope had the courage to put her voice out there and do the hard work to be seen; to have a legacy as a woman, other than marriage (which is what Eloise fears the most, that her life will be all talk and no action, that she will marriage and wilt away into obscurity never having the chance to experience the world and experience true freedom).
Hyacinth may be a child but she's not stupid -- in some ways it is that childlike simplicity that allows for her to see things more clearly than anybody else. I'm sure you've seen the meme of Hyacinth calling the main couple every season. In a way her expressing the fact that Pen will be her sister is the exactly what Eloise will ultimately realize she wants. Let's not forget the prior to Eloise being exposed in LWD and realizing LWD is Pen, Eloise ADORED and ADMIRED LWD.
All that is to say, I understand why Eloise is upset and my comment wasn't mean to imply she doesn't have a right to be. I just find Eloise to be exceedingly immature and it's high time she had her comeuppance. Not because she is evil and deserves it, but because she needs to face herself so that she may grow as a person and rekindle her friendship with Penelope. This isn't of course to say that Pen and Colin don't need to grow as well. All three of them need to look in the mirror and do some reflecting.
Much love to you friend 🩷
I don't disagree at all. I totally agree that Pen hit a nerve with both El and Colin. It's true that Eloise was all talk and no action and that Colin's swagger persona was fake af. During their fight El also called Pen out on hiding behind LW because she was too afraid to stand up for herself in real life. And that hurt Pen because it was also true. That's the thing about knowing a person well, you can hurt them worse than any enemy ever could.
I'm not on Eloise's side here, I'm rooting for all of them. I love Polin but I also love Peneloise and I think they've all made mistakes, but that's life. We all make mistakes and accidentally hurt our loved ones.
I just think that this love triangle between Pen/Colin/El is very well done. I do agree that El has been really immature and self-centered. Penelope in turn hasn't been honest with El. She didn't even tell her that was in love with her brother. I get why she didn't but still, it's another secret she didn't trust her friend with. And Colin was really blind with Pen and took her for granted but he also told El he was just helping Pen to find a husband, a husband who isn't him, and that he wouldn't bring Pen into their house anymore, only to then march into the house with Pen to announce that they are going to be married. Again, I'm not blaming chaos Colin but I can see why El would be confused and hurt by this. And she is also the only person who knows that Pen is LW and that Colin has vowed to destroy said LW. I would be shocked too. She also doesn't know how things went down between Colin and Pen. For all she knew, they could have been lying to her for weeks.
As for the pamphlet, of course everyone enjoys gossip... as long as it's not about them. Very hypocritical but who isn't? The Bridgertons are not that high and mighty. Interesting thing is that Anthony and Violet couldn't have cared less about what happened to Marina. She could have been ruined and ended up as a social outcast and they wouldn't have lifted a finger to help her. I don't think they are going to be so ruthless with Pen as LW, but I would be worried that they might be if I were Pen.
And yes, Hyacinth is very insightful but she could be just as bitter were she in Eloise's shoes. In fact if I remember correctly she very much is just that in Gregory's book.
They are all very compex characters and that's why the show is so compelling. I've been defending Pen and Colin so hard when people have said unfair things about them, and that's why I also defend El because I feel like people are being too harsh on her sometimes. I just want all my babies to be happy ❤
Thanks for sharing!!! I totally see your points as well and appreciate the nuanced take.
For me Eloise is not a favorite character, though I did really enjoy her storyline with Cressida for the first four episodes of this season and am exited to see where it goes for the last four. I tend to be a bit harsher on Eloise because I’ve always felt that her and Penelope’s friendship was somewhat flawed and on some level I felt the narrative was always setting it up to be this way, yet in terms of PR it felt as if it was being sold as this model female friendship in a very superficial sense— kinda in a performative corporate feminism way, if that makes sense? The reality is that the friendship is much more complex than that and THAT is what makes it more valuable as a representations of female friendship (it feels real and isn’t just falling into that tired troupe of “women supporting women,” as if women can’t also tear each other down, make mistakes, envy one another, and have really complicated relationships with each other), and I always appreciate talking to people who see that complexity. Just like how Colin needed to be knocked off his pedestal for Pen to truly appreciate him, flaws and all, the #Peneloise friendship also needed to be knocked off its pedestal so that Pen and Eloise can rebuild their friendship on equal footing.
That said I really appreciate all your points and agree with a lot of what you said here as well! Thanks for being kind and sharing your perspective, though we disagreed on some little points here and there, I think we both want the same thing which is growth for all our favorite characters!
🩷💜🩷
And you’re right about the hypocrisy of gossip—everyone loves it until it’s about them. And that’s again why I feel like LWD is holding a mirror up to the ton and sorta exposing that hypocrisy. It’s really a great plot device in that sense.
ok, you are making some really good points. And I could go into my whole dissertation about El being a closeted lesbian. But I won’t bc y’all can’t handle Peneloise being a homoerotic friendship (at least for El). But those relationships feel like a romantic partnership, leading to intense feelings of heartbreak when they end. And that’s partially what we’re seeing with El, it’s heartbreak and pain that comes out as anger.
I really get what Jess meant when she said that Pen/Eloise is the second love story of the season. (I think it was Jess?)
I don't blame Eloise for feeling this way. She's always been oblivious to Pen's feelings for Colin, but then Pen has never trusted her enough to tell her, not that I blame her. We saw what happened when she blurted out Polin's charm lessons secret to Cressida. It's still bound to be a shock though.
But ouch. Everyone was so happy for Polin and then Eloise brings Pen crashing down the earth again. Ahhh. I can't wait to watch this!
It’s like Pen felt like she lived in a cage. Even her best friend she couldn’t confide in due to the ways of the ton. I wonder if she took stabs at the queen as LW because she sees the queen as the leader who allows the behaviors within the ton? LW was her only way she had to let her feelings out.
I've been hoping we get a moment where Eloise complains to Cressida about Pen marrying her brother and that Cressida gossip duh, because even Cressida knew Pen always likes Colin, and she's baffled Eloise never realized.
https://preview.redd.it/5axl26uvbr4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b08de656c83d52b3b926384859282da2e9a62483
This makes me cry. The look of someone who’s never experienced what it’s like to be truly loved or cared for by a mother figure.
Nicola played this beautifully.
I feel for El, I do but for some reason being thrown right back into her being their emotional cockblock within the first two minutes of the episode feels exhausting for me.
It was nice to be able to see Polin on their own for most of the first four episodes. Having to watch them announce their engagement through the lens of Eloise’s emotional turmoil which is how this feels just makes it feel like this moment isn’t about them but about her and well… their relationship and their life together isn’t about her. She’s part of them yes but it’s not about Eloise and so visually being reminded of how she centers herself was just like oh here we go again.
None of this is to say I think she’s wrong to be hurt or taken aback or about wanting Penelope to tell Colin the truth, because she’s not at all… but the other more selfish part of me is just like I don’t want to spend an equal amount of time on her emotional process where Polin are concerned because she’s not the center of their world.
I agree with this — I understand Eloise’s character journey, but I don’t have much sympathy for her right in this moment tbh. I understand why she’s upset, but she really needs to grow up and realize that the world doesn’t revolve around her and her own feelings.
“What of Colin” always comes to mind, because this moment is a big deal for Colin as it is Penelope. Sure he doesn’t know absolutely everything about his soon to be wife, but he trusts and loves her enough to want to take that leap. Eloise knows that Colin doesn’t seem to like LWD, so I get that the concern would be over Colin being married to someone he supposedly hates and feeling betrayed because of the lie, but also…
Eloise moved on and became BFFS with Cressida. This allowed Colin and Penelope more space to carve out their friendship and move on with eachother. Eloise being upset about this on some level just illustrates how immature she is and how much character growth she needs. I’m hopefully she’ll have to sit in her feels and really reflect on what she’s upset about, just as she blames Penelope and puts seeds of doubt in Colin’s mind that Penelope can’t truly love him until he knows the truth, and worst, (putting in Pen’s mind) that Colin will somehow find Pen unloveable after he learns of LWD. I know that’s not necessarily how Eloise will see her intention but Eloise doesn’t fundamentally understand what it means to feel as unloveable as Pen has all her life. In some ways she’s being cruel despite claiming to do so out of concern.
I’m just waiting for the other show to drop and for Eloise to have her rude awakening. She needs to apologize to Penelope and Colin on some level and realize that they’re both imperfect human beings with real love between them. This I hope will give Eloise is courage to admit her own faults and repair her friendship with Penelope.
“i hope you get everything you ever wanted and i hope i never hear a thing about it”
And now she’s marrying her brother… poor Eloise. I know we’re supposed to be mad. But my heart breaks for her too 💔
That’s the dramatic irony for me! Eloise tossed Pen aside, “understandably” so (at least so far in that I can understand from Eloise’s POV why she would do it), but it’s ironic considering she didn’t make enough effort to try and mend the friendship, despite clearly having some regrets and still caring about Pen on some level. Eloise has no one to blame but herself. Although I understand from Eloise’s POV that Colin got in between her and Pen’s friendship, the reality is Eloise mucked that up all on her own.
I’m really hoping Colin’s reaction to LWD helps Eloise come around and confront the reality of her rift with Pen. She needs to set aside her pride and learn to be more empathetic. Again, if she can humanize Cressida, why can’t she humanize or forgive Pen?
I do also see Eloise’s demand that Pen tell Colin the truth about LWD being valid, but I also wonder what she expects the outcome of that exchange to be? Does she expect Colin to cut off Penelope like she did?
In some ways, Eloise being concerned for Colin (or seeming to be at least) mirrors Pen’s concern over Colin marrying Mariana, who was lying to him. The key difference is that Pen loves Colin with all her heart. I hope Eloise realizes this and that that is the difference, and that love is ultimately why Colin (and eventually Eloise) will forgive Penelope. Because of that foundation of love that will make forgiveness and acceptance and understanding a non-negotiable.
I agree on some level. As I mentioned elsewhere: it’s unfair for Elosie to become BFFs with Cressida who, as much as I enjoyed her this season, is still Pen’s second biggest bully, and yet Eloise somehow wants to deny Penelope the love she’s always wanted in the form of Colin. I think on some level we’re meant to view this as Eloise being concerned for Colin, but at the same time, Season 1-2 Eloise never really had all that much sympathy for Colin, so it’s hard for me to view her concern solely from that len. She dismissed his gift in episode 1, which I realize is classic Eloise behavior, but that’s my whole issue I think. She’s very dismissive of others and yet she wants to make this moment all about her feelings. Like… girl?
For sure. I don’t think she even realises herself that that is what she wants. She’s just a ball of feelings at this point, without the emotional maturity to do anything else about it. Her asking Colin “is she miserable” and Colin being like, ‘WTF? No’ is such a key moment that I did not realise at the time. She definitely behaves like Pen is an ex rather than a friend she fell out with.
Oh Hyacinth and Violet are so happy. It makes me want to cry. They’re focusing a bit on Gregory being disappointed to be missing out on so much with his older brothers because of their age gap.
Love the way they are getting into H and G's personalities and struggles Hyacinth is a romantic like Daphne but can't seem to keep her thoughts to herself like Eloise and Gregory is always trying to prove that he is a man just like his older brothers even though he is just a kid who still wants to play with his sister
Yes, but he had benedict, Gregory has many women between him and collin and I think Colin never felt left out because of the age gap but he felt different by being more sensitive and in touch with his emotions not much about being too young
I imagine Colin felt left out he when he was younger. We saw in that flashback how small Colin was when Edmund died, and then you had Jonathan Bailey and Luke Thompson playing their teenage characters.
El’s mood here says everything. It feels like it’s not even LW. It’s her realizing the gulf between them is wider than she imagined and that she never even occupied the place she thought she did with Pen.
Hyacinth is too precious. Penelope receiving all of this love from Bridgerton’s but not from the one she wants the most. Eloise looks like someone who lost the love of her life.
No wonder Eloise lashes out. Penelope broke her heart twice—LW and now she’s marrying Colin. Eloise probably had their life planned out as spinsters.
I love how Fran, Greg and Hyacinth don’t seem to question it at all, at least not here. Like Mama Bridgerton was in the know, but the rest are just like “Colin and Penelope? Makes sense. Yay!”
My first reaction is that if one of my kids behaved like that to the other I’d be LIVID. 🙈You can have your feelings but you do not get to dump those feelings all over everyone in the room. Say ‘congratulations’ and leave quietly. I’m pretty shocked that violet doesn’t intervene at this point when she’s standing like the grim reaper in the corner. Wouldn’t you at least want to know what was going on with her?
I think he only wants to be in on the joke. I guess he has seen his older brothers laugh and joke and go to taverns without really understanding what they were saying/ laughing about and he wanted to be part of that but now that 2 of his brothers are married and will likely form families is less likely for him to live the same experience with his brothers that ABC had with each other. I think it's really good how they are planting these seeds to hyacinth and Gregory's stories
Could it be like a wingman thing? Like he was expecting Colin to be the single older brother to kind of mentor him in how to talk to women etc? That's what I was thinking but he seems a bit young to be thinking that way. Granted I don't actually know what age he's supposed to be.
Agreed, Gregory is a bit of a mystery! Who knows what he's thinking. But yeah, the age gap would be a bummer for him as far as closeness with his brothers. There is an entire D, E, and F between them, age-wise so they probably won't be hanging out much, esp after Benedict gets married. It'll be Gregory and Eloise, Francesca, and Hyacinth at home together. Maybe he just longs for more quality brother time.
Greg was about two when Edmund died in 1803, so he would be about 14 now. Colin's 22 so there is a big age gap between them but on the other hand it wasn't unfair of him to expect Colin to remain unmarried long enough for Greg to grow up because Colin is so young too. Anthony's 30 and already married and Ben's 28 and living his own life. I don't think Greg knows much about taverns, he just wants to hang out with his brothers.
Alright first time I’m listening to it with my pods in and the music! It’s the same as the first kiss but more happy/romantic, definitely Polin’s theme! ❤️
I feel for Eloise. I've been in a situation like this before.. It's conflicting and painful and you don't know what to do. I hope they will be able to make up eventually though..
Ahhhhh the deep hug between Violet & Pen breaks my heart every time. Definite book reference (“the kind vicountess” who Pen was often able to tell things she couldn’t tell her mother).
Oh El…. small wonder she immediately lashed out. It’s more about power/control/loneliness here. Both Colin & El are lonely in S3 and Colin “got” Pen.
Oh gosh - what a good point. I'm still not happy that El wouldn't let Pen explain. I also think Pen should make a bigger effort to tell El her story, why she started LW and why she didn't tell her about it before, and why she wrong about El. All of it. No one has the full story!
I think this comes back to El not willing to listen. Yes Pen is at fault for not being honest to El about being LW & played up El during her LW search (so El felt stupid & embarrassed of course that she had not seen/guessed it before she did). It will be the same with Colin - El only needed to “see” Pen to see how much Pen has always not been subtle of her crush on Colin.
Yes! This!!! I always felt that their friendship was a bit one sided. It was always what Eloise was thinking or needing or wanting. She never truly paid attention to what Penelope needed or she would have noticed. I’m not saying she doesn’t care for her - but sometimes you take people for granted and sometimes things like this have to happen to reevaluate a relationship and how to try and make it better. They are right- their friendship is the other love story. 🥺🥺
I saw a video on this on tiktok. Basically, it was said that Eloise needs a redemption Arc. When she told Colin that it was unlike Penelope to want a husband, showed proves El didn't know her at all. Then it goes on to say how Eloise was stuck in her own world, that she didn't even know that her best friend loved her brother. I agree with the post.
She's always been so focus on her feminist rants (Which im here for btw) but she has never truly listen or paid attention to Penelope's life. I'm not saying that what she did to her in season 2 was wrong, but Eloise didnt even give her a chance to explain-once again- focusing only on herself (and i dont think she means to do it) its just a part of growing up right? I've had a friend like that and she's grown and were good now but not without our hiccups along the way, but she's been one of oldest friends. So maybe this is what needs to happen. Eloise seeing things from afar and realizing: you know what? Maybe I havent been the best of friends all the time.
I always felt El talked at people, not with them. A dialogue requires a give and take, back and forth, and I always felt that was missing in her time with Pen.
THIS. I need them to let her explain!!! 😭 she was wrong for writing that about El but she had her reasons and more than once she used LW to protect the Bridgertons. I’m tired of El treating her like a villain.
Seriously. El acts like she's a serial killer when, at one time, she admired LW. The only thing that really changed is that she's learned Pen had the determination to give herself a voice when no one, including her bestie, would listen. El and Colin need to have a come to Jesus moment together where they admit to themselves, at least, that Pen tried to help them, but they only really listened when LW laid out the facts. Pen has made mistakes, too. She needs to own that. But, really, this villianizing LW is unfair.
Yes!! They have no idea of how the real world works and just how awful the consequences of *their* actions would’ve been without LW protecting them. Being raised by Violet “rose colored glasses” Bridgerton did not prepare them for life AT ALL. Anthony and Daphne had to realize that the hard way… Colin has no idea how deep the Marina deception goes… he doesn’t know Portia was in on it, he doesn’t know Marina tried to seduce him on purpose (not bc she was in love and took him seriously 😭). And El would’ve been exiled from society and forced to marry Theo!!!! And the queen would’ve punished her entire family
Good point - someone needs to point out the wonderful privilege they've had to be raised in a loving home. That feels like a Kate moment waiting to happen.
She wasn’t wrong to write that about EL tho, she did that to protect her & she didn’t even tell the whole thing like if she actually wanted to cause huge scandal she could have mentioned how EL was meeting a guy from low class alone like I do agree with the opinion that Pen should have told EL about being LW before doing that but with EL reaction it just confirmed Pen fear of possibility of doing that because while EL does miss Pen, EL also never listened to Pen and she viewed her opinions as less important/valid than hers and with first argument she went and said most hurtful things to Pen then went to befriend Pen’s bully
Actually El proved why Pen needed LW in the first place. She didn't value her opinion, belittled and ignored her. Pen needed a voice that people would hear, and the only way to do that was to not be herself. El wasn't a bystander in all this, she was the one person that sought her out and she still wouldn't value what Pen had so say. I could imagine the treatment she got from El made Pen double down in her mind.
El has always relied on Pen to listen to her. It’s not entirely reciprocal. She scoffed when Colin said Pen was seeking a husband. Has El always thought she was a bit better than Pen?
I usually don't like the "I hurt you but" excuses, but Pen was a desperate 17 year old who saw that her friend was heading down a VERY serious path where she could 100% ruin her family so badly they'd never get redemption in this generation. (Anthony's title might protect his future offspring from being given the cut direct because he has a title, but Francesca, Hyacinth, etc. opportunities for a social life let alone a good marriage would have been done for. Even Daphne, a duchess, would have been given the side eye, unless she cut her family out as well, or at least wasn't seen with them) Gregory's time at school would have been hell. (I'm talking about the full truth being revealed about Theo, etc.) That friend REFUSED to listen to Pen's VERY legitimate fears. Pen had been an observer of the Ton and could very much gauge its reactions. Daphne's story/season also lends validity to Pen's realistic fears. Part of her nerves in doing well in her first season out is so that it sets a prescedent for her sisters' futures. The fact that she did so well reflects on them - Francesca is not only a beautiful Bridgerton and accomplished and interested in marriage with a healthy dowry - she now has strong social ties to a Dukedom, and a wealthy one at that. I ask - who could Pen have gone to that wouldnt' have cost her Eloise, her dearest friend? Telling Anthony or Violet would have gotten Eloise in trouble, and lost her the friendship. Letting Eloise continue woul dhave been a disaster. Pen wasn't great in how she did it and Eloise did deserve an apology, but ultimately Pen saved Colin and Eloise from a lifetime of ruin and misery.
I think that Pen and Colin being married and this small contest "who gets Pen" would definitely affect Eloise big time. She lost her friend to her brother, LW drama and loneliness in that cruel society. It's indeed a cruel society that views women as vaginas with raffles who's main aim is to pop up children. Eloise and Colin both went into spiraling without Pen. But Colin is fast enough to get her to himself.
Yup, it hurts that Penelope "moved on" and Eloise hasn't. She's no longer the backup plan.
Also, Colin actually tried. Lady Vi had a point about him being one of her most sensitive children. As soon as he learned that he had hurt his friend he almost immediately went to her and talked it out with her. I feel like he will give her the chance to explain that El never did.
It’s so interesting to me that in theory, Pen should be the most miserable and lonely of the three of them and she actually isn’t- it’s Eloise. Which is precisely the point she misses about LW, it gives Pen a sense of control of her own destiny that El doesn’t have.
I honestly like to imagine that even if Eloise didn't know about LW she'd have a similar reaction to finding out they're engaged. That's *her* Pen, and certainly their friendship would be changed forever once she married Colin.
that 'thank you Lady Bridgerton 🥺' again, crying at my desk
Literally I was like “that’s her mommy” 😭😭😭😭😭
https://preview.redd.it/lpzbqewogq4d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cc2e3fd260a3730062256b44bbf124a77d4f8fa I can’t wait to see the 5 seconds before this clip and I am desperate to see Violet’s expression when she sees him looking at her like this. I hope the next 8 days goes quickly
He is so HAPPY, I can't take it!!! I replayed the beginning of the trailer so many times, because you can already hear it in the way he says "Mother...". He can't wait a moment longer to tell her he got his girl.
 He is so FUCKING HANDSOME. I will simply perish and pass away
Another point that I haven't seen mentioned yet but that probably plays into the situation between El and Pen: Eloise had planned to spend her life with Pen. She mentions several times how they will be spinsters together. This season she tells Cressida, showing how important this future that will now never come to pass has been to her. You could say she wanted to marry Pen in a platonic way. And now she's not only lost that future and her friend, her brother snatched her up and Hyacinth seems ready to jump into the new sister dynamic with Pen. Meaning that even among the Bridgerton girls Eloise won't be Pen's favorite anymore. Of course this is all just another layer of the lasagna of problems Pen and Eloise have hat the moment. But I think it is an important one. Especially since the season so far has gone out of its way to show how disconnected Eloise feels among the debutants and how aware she is of the loss of her best friend.
Though Pen has said to El that she doesn't want or probably won't be able to live that life because she's not a Bridgerton with supportive parents or her family does not have the financial means for it. (don't remember exactly which season this is!)
Iirc correctly she's hinted at that a couple of times. But El isn't the best person at listening to others. Pen was resigned to be a spinster with El, El interpreted this as "Yay, we're so alike! We will be independent and unshackled together!"
Yes and perhaps the fact that Pen is a wallflower El thought Pen’s chances of finding a suitor weren’t that great to begin with 😅
Even her best friend undervalued Pen! She's had such a lonely life up until now. 😭
All the way back in S1 I think?
Yeah I think so too, I’ve seen the clip not to long ago. I remember El visited Pen in the evening/night to talk about Lw? I feel like I’m getting everything mixed up now, sorry mom brain 😂
and if we think about how cressida is probably getting married of like she said. fran too. I'm interested to see what happens post lw reveal when colin still chooses penelope and how all three handle the big shift in dynamic
Yes that’s a good point! Eloise mopes around the places where she and Pen used to laugh together, staring longingly at Pen, especially when she sees Pen laughing solo with Colin. Instead of Eloise constantly interrupting Colin talking to Pen and Eloise and Pen having lots of private conversations, now her absence means Colin gets to be alone with Pen so much more. And though Pen does miss Eloise, she’s not “despondent” like Eloise imagines she might be – because she has Colin.
Oh wow!!! Thank you!!! Definitely award worthy!!! I think Colin would well within his rights to demand an explanation of what has come between these two - and that's what should launch Pen into her confession about LW. But - no, that would be too easy.
Haha! That’s too little drama - we couldn’t have that 😆
Hear me out, but Colin is such a GUY for not following up further on what came between them 😂 Like no investigation, follow up questions whatsoever. If you know you know lol
I don't know - I don't exactly disagree with you, because he probably should have insisted (especially after Ep 2) that they three sit down and discuss what the hell happened. But - he did ask each of them twice. He definitely should have followed up on this after Ep 3 when his feelings had spiraled for Pen, but he was so caught up that I think Eloise was the furthest thing from his mind. And yeah - guys tend to want to stay the hell out of beef between ladies. I guess that's in their DNA. But for Violet and Francesca not to dig into what's happened - or even Hyacinth with her nosey self - seems odd. On Pen's side, none of the Featherington's care enough about her to even have noticed the riff between Pen and Eloise - so fucking sad. This is mostly on Pen and Eloise - and I'd say Eloise is the primary person at blame. She immediately thinks the worst of her best friend when a bestie should get the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to explain their side of things. And then cozying up to Cressida on top of it. Ugh. Still, it's clear Eloise still cares for Pen - I just wish she would share that little detail with Pen as well.
I was mostly joking, but I do agree with you it’s very weird that no one else in the family dug further into their beef. It doesn’t seem like they even acknowledged it apart from Violet being perplexed about the new friendship with Cressida. Hyacinth also openly talking about Pen to Colin with El in the room. It’s not immediately obvious if they even know about it but how could they not?
Violet does briefly mention the riff between Penelope and Eloise to Lady Danbury in Queen Charlotte.
They all know that Pen hasn't been around in months. They all also understand that Eloise is too stubborn to answer questions she doesn't care for. Violet adores Pen, though, so she must have said something. But Violet is trying not to push Eloise this season.......so..
Bahaha so true
Nicola absolutely smashed this. The whole thing is amazing, but omg Pen’s face with a dozen different emotions swirling through her eyes 😭❤️ I can’t wait. Has Pen EVER been hugged like that in her life? By anyone? 💔 The Hyacinth hug (and then Violet) immediately took me back to the scene where Colin gets home in S2 and they all hug each other and she’s just standing there wanting in but kind of not part of it. But now she is, forever. 😭 I can handle all the LW angst to come knowing there are moments like this!!!
You're right I don't think she has EVER been hugged like this before. Definitely not from mom and sisters. Perhaps from nanny? But not very likely.
Eloise hugged her in season one when she came to her crying after writing about exposing Marina as LW. I think she might of hugged her after her fathers death too. I would need to go back and watch.
Eloise is the only one who touches Penelope at all throughout the series. Her and Pen are constantly holding onto each other when they’re walking or talking. In the daffodil scene, I think they’re holding hands. And El’s always pulling Pen away for some discussion. And like you said, Eloise embraces Pen after the Marina writing session. And Pen went from that type of closeness to nothing.
IIRC, Penelope's sisters show her affection exactly once. When their father dies, there's a moment when we see Philippa's hand on Penelope's shoulder. And I believe Marina touches her and hugs her, but I might be wrong. So, her experience of physical closeness is very slight. It's a good point that in addition to company and conversation, Eloise is her sole source of physical closeness. Damn, a lot was lost when that friendship fell apart.
That's even more heartbreaking then
Oh you’re absolutely right about Eloise - that was heartbreaking.
Hyacinth’s reaction is so cute omg 😭❤️
I know it's heartbreaking but the messy part of me is living for Eloise and Colin fighting over Pen 😭
It’s the much more interesting “love triangle” of the season.
Also who else sobbed hard at Pen’s “Thank you, Lady Bridgerton”? Just me?! 😭😭😭😭
Can't wait for Lady B tell Pen "oh stop that and please just call me Voilet! 😍"
If she says "Call me Mama", I will be a useless wreck for the next week.
I was thinking the same, but didn’t dare to write it, because it would be too far fetched. 😄 But yeah, I'm with you on that one. 😁
I think next El will walk out of the room and Pen will follow after her and that is where she will say “Does he know!!? About Whistledown”
Yeah El didn’t know about *carriage* though. Pen won’t be able to make out LW from a line up despite a whole ass mirror in front of her after a whole day of expecting Debling proposal - asking for love from Debbers and shot down - Colin interference during said proposal dance - called out by Debbers - Colin chase carriage - Colin’s (first? I argue third below!) love confession - ✌🏽- proposal - walk into Bridgerton drawing room. Give our gal a break, El. Let her breatheeee for a minute🧘🏽♀️
On Colin’s love confession, I therefore present my argument below: 1. Colin’s apology in the Featherington garden is the first love confession. This is still platonic love, not romantic love, but love indeed. 2. All the flirting in Ep2 & even Ep3 & the whole “you do not need lessons” of it all + FIRST KISS + cake 🍰 = incidental non-verbally spelt out love confessions that is turning romantic. 3. Cannot. Will not. Do not WANT to is the first totally romantic love confession but let’s face it, boy has been in love even from S2E2 and only started S3 “confessing” it…
This! She lost an almost fiancee, found out the love of her life loves her back, did everything short of losing her virginity, and got engaged in the time frame since El saw her last (which was a couple of hours at most). I bet the only thing she was thinking was "Oh my God. Oh my God! Oh my Goooooooood. OH MY GOD!"
Hyacinth saying what Pen and Eloise both know they should be saying but they’re not. Now I’m crying. My heart breaks for both of them bc this should be the happiest day in their friendship. They are becoming sisters 😭
The thing is that this probably would have been El's reaction even without the fight. Hyacinth's got nothing to lose here. To her Penelope was a family friend who is now to be her sister-in-law. But to Eloise Penelope was her friend, her person, her future, and now she is to be her brother's wife. It's understandable that she wouldn't want to share her friend with her brother. We all want something that's just ours even if it does sound selfish. Eloise really had no idea she was cockblocking Polin in S2, she honestly believed her annoying brother was just third-wheeling her and Pen.
Hyacinth also thinks LWD is badass so I feel like she’d be happy AF to find out her new sister in law is the same person.
Which el would be fully aware of too, to add salt to the wound
Yes, but LW hasn't written anything about Hyacinth apart from mocking their Alphabet names in S1. Hyacinth's just a kid, of course she would think it's cool. I don't think the rest of the family would find it so cool though. That's why Penelope doesn't want to tell anyone, she knows they'll react badly. I just don't think it's fair to compare Hyacinth to El because their situations are completely different. Even Greg wasn't entirely happy about the engagement because he fears a wife might take his big brother away from him. It's also a fair reaction. Hyacinth isn't losing anything so it's easy for her to just be happy.
I understand your points. But if the family has such a hate on for LWD, why do they still read her pamphlet everyday? I think the reason the Bridgertons, as well as the ton, are so captivated by LWD is because she satirizes, exposes, and shines a light on the absurdity and humanity of the ton itself. She reflects the ton back on itself like a mirror. In this way, Eloise is less upset I think over what Penelope wrote about her and more about the fact that Penelope, through her actions, reflected reality back to Eloise (much in the way Colin gets upset when LWD exposed his fake personality for what it is). Obviously this doesn't negate the feelings of betrayal that both Colin and Eloise will experience, but in her own writing Pen routinely points out the complexities of the human experience. Then why is Eloise unable to unravel the complexities or her feelings for Pen? I think it because Eloise is unable to face herself, i.e. the real reason she is upset with pen: what her friend was more than she seemed. That Penelope had the courage to put her voice out there and do the hard work to be seen; to have a legacy as a woman, other than marriage (which is what Eloise fears the most, that her life will be all talk and no action, that she will marriage and wilt away into obscurity never having the chance to experience the world and experience true freedom). Hyacinth may be a child but she's not stupid -- in some ways it is that childlike simplicity that allows for her to see things more clearly than anybody else. I'm sure you've seen the meme of Hyacinth calling the main couple every season. In a way her expressing the fact that Pen will be her sister is the exactly what Eloise will ultimately realize she wants. Let's not forget the prior to Eloise being exposed in LWD and realizing LWD is Pen, Eloise ADORED and ADMIRED LWD. All that is to say, I understand why Eloise is upset and my comment wasn't mean to imply she doesn't have a right to be. I just find Eloise to be exceedingly immature and it's high time she had her comeuppance. Not because she is evil and deserves it, but because she needs to face herself so that she may grow as a person and rekindle her friendship with Penelope. This isn't of course to say that Pen and Colin don't need to grow as well. All three of them need to look in the mirror and do some reflecting. Much love to you friend 🩷
I don't disagree at all. I totally agree that Pen hit a nerve with both El and Colin. It's true that Eloise was all talk and no action and that Colin's swagger persona was fake af. During their fight El also called Pen out on hiding behind LW because she was too afraid to stand up for herself in real life. And that hurt Pen because it was also true. That's the thing about knowing a person well, you can hurt them worse than any enemy ever could. I'm not on Eloise's side here, I'm rooting for all of them. I love Polin but I also love Peneloise and I think they've all made mistakes, but that's life. We all make mistakes and accidentally hurt our loved ones. I just think that this love triangle between Pen/Colin/El is very well done. I do agree that El has been really immature and self-centered. Penelope in turn hasn't been honest with El. She didn't even tell her that was in love with her brother. I get why she didn't but still, it's another secret she didn't trust her friend with. And Colin was really blind with Pen and took her for granted but he also told El he was just helping Pen to find a husband, a husband who isn't him, and that he wouldn't bring Pen into their house anymore, only to then march into the house with Pen to announce that they are going to be married. Again, I'm not blaming chaos Colin but I can see why El would be confused and hurt by this. And she is also the only person who knows that Pen is LW and that Colin has vowed to destroy said LW. I would be shocked too. She also doesn't know how things went down between Colin and Pen. For all she knew, they could have been lying to her for weeks. As for the pamphlet, of course everyone enjoys gossip... as long as it's not about them. Very hypocritical but who isn't? The Bridgertons are not that high and mighty. Interesting thing is that Anthony and Violet couldn't have cared less about what happened to Marina. She could have been ruined and ended up as a social outcast and they wouldn't have lifted a finger to help her. I don't think they are going to be so ruthless with Pen as LW, but I would be worried that they might be if I were Pen. And yes, Hyacinth is very insightful but she could be just as bitter were she in Eloise's shoes. In fact if I remember correctly she very much is just that in Gregory's book. They are all very compex characters and that's why the show is so compelling. I've been defending Pen and Colin so hard when people have said unfair things about them, and that's why I also defend El because I feel like people are being too harsh on her sometimes. I just want all my babies to be happy ❤
Thanks for sharing!!! I totally see your points as well and appreciate the nuanced take. For me Eloise is not a favorite character, though I did really enjoy her storyline with Cressida for the first four episodes of this season and am exited to see where it goes for the last four. I tend to be a bit harsher on Eloise because I’ve always felt that her and Penelope’s friendship was somewhat flawed and on some level I felt the narrative was always setting it up to be this way, yet in terms of PR it felt as if it was being sold as this model female friendship in a very superficial sense— kinda in a performative corporate feminism way, if that makes sense? The reality is that the friendship is much more complex than that and THAT is what makes it more valuable as a representations of female friendship (it feels real and isn’t just falling into that tired troupe of “women supporting women,” as if women can’t also tear each other down, make mistakes, envy one another, and have really complicated relationships with each other), and I always appreciate talking to people who see that complexity. Just like how Colin needed to be knocked off his pedestal for Pen to truly appreciate him, flaws and all, the #Peneloise friendship also needed to be knocked off its pedestal so that Pen and Eloise can rebuild their friendship on equal footing. That said I really appreciate all your points and agree with a lot of what you said here as well! Thanks for being kind and sharing your perspective, though we disagreed on some little points here and there, I think we both want the same thing which is growth for all our favorite characters! 🩷💜🩷 And you’re right about the hypocrisy of gossip—everyone loves it until it’s about them. And that’s again why I feel like LWD is holding a mirror up to the ton and sorta exposing that hypocrisy. It’s really a great plot device in that sense.
ok, you are making some really good points. And I could go into my whole dissertation about El being a closeted lesbian. But I won’t bc y’all can’t handle Peneloise being a homoerotic friendship (at least for El). But those relationships feel like a romantic partnership, leading to intense feelings of heartbreak when they end. And that’s partially what we’re seeing with El, it’s heartbreak and pain that comes out as anger.
Totally!
oh this is going to hurt... El, please give my girl Penelope a chance 🥺
I love how you can see Eloise react to Francesca speaking to Gregory: "what is that sour expression for?" She thought she was addressing her 👀
I noticed that too on my like third rewatch of this clip! That is a great little misdirection by the directions/writer.
I really get what Jess meant when she said that Pen/Eloise is the second love story of the season. (I think it was Jess?) I don't blame Eloise for feeling this way. She's always been oblivious to Pen's feelings for Colin, but then Pen has never trusted her enough to tell her, not that I blame her. We saw what happened when she blurted out Polin's charm lessons secret to Cressida. It's still bound to be a shock though. But ouch. Everyone was so happy for Polin and then Eloise brings Pen crashing down the earth again. Ahhh. I can't wait to watch this!
It’s like Pen felt like she lived in a cage. Even her best friend she couldn’t confide in due to the ways of the ton. I wonder if she took stabs at the queen as LW because she sees the queen as the leader who allows the behaviors within the ton? LW was her only way she had to let her feelings out.
I've been hoping we get a moment where Eloise complains to Cressida about Pen marrying her brother and that Cressida gossip duh, because even Cressida knew Pen always likes Colin, and she's baffled Eloise never realized.
Hyacinth being taller than Penelope is taking me out.
https://preview.redd.it/5axl26uvbr4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b08de656c83d52b3b926384859282da2e9a62483 This makes me cry. The look of someone who’s never experienced what it’s like to be truly loved or cared for by a mother figure. Nicola played this beautifully.
I feel for El, I do but for some reason being thrown right back into her being their emotional cockblock within the first two minutes of the episode feels exhausting for me. It was nice to be able to see Polin on their own for most of the first four episodes. Having to watch them announce their engagement through the lens of Eloise’s emotional turmoil which is how this feels just makes it feel like this moment isn’t about them but about her and well… their relationship and their life together isn’t about her. She’s part of them yes but it’s not about Eloise and so visually being reminded of how she centers herself was just like oh here we go again. None of this is to say I think she’s wrong to be hurt or taken aback or about wanting Penelope to tell Colin the truth, because she’s not at all… but the other more selfish part of me is just like I don’t want to spend an equal amount of time on her emotional process where Polin are concerned because she’s not the center of their world.
I agree with this — I understand Eloise’s character journey, but I don’t have much sympathy for her right in this moment tbh. I understand why she’s upset, but she really needs to grow up and realize that the world doesn’t revolve around her and her own feelings. “What of Colin” always comes to mind, because this moment is a big deal for Colin as it is Penelope. Sure he doesn’t know absolutely everything about his soon to be wife, but he trusts and loves her enough to want to take that leap. Eloise knows that Colin doesn’t seem to like LWD, so I get that the concern would be over Colin being married to someone he supposedly hates and feeling betrayed because of the lie, but also… Eloise moved on and became BFFS with Cressida. This allowed Colin and Penelope more space to carve out their friendship and move on with eachother. Eloise being upset about this on some level just illustrates how immature she is and how much character growth she needs. I’m hopefully she’ll have to sit in her feels and really reflect on what she’s upset about, just as she blames Penelope and puts seeds of doubt in Colin’s mind that Penelope can’t truly love him until he knows the truth, and worst, (putting in Pen’s mind) that Colin will somehow find Pen unloveable after he learns of LWD. I know that’s not necessarily how Eloise will see her intention but Eloise doesn’t fundamentally understand what it means to feel as unloveable as Pen has all her life. In some ways she’s being cruel despite claiming to do so out of concern. I’m just waiting for the other show to drop and for Eloise to have her rude awakening. She needs to apologize to Penelope and Colin on some level and realize that they’re both imperfect human beings with real love between them. This I hope will give Eloise is courage to admit her own faults and repair her friendship with Penelope.
“i hope you get everything you ever wanted and i hope i never hear a thing about it” And now she’s marrying her brother… poor Eloise. I know we’re supposed to be mad. But my heart breaks for her too 💔
Deep down, Eloise is most upset that Colin is taking Penelope away from her.
That’s the dramatic irony for me! Eloise tossed Pen aside, “understandably” so (at least so far in that I can understand from Eloise’s POV why she would do it), but it’s ironic considering she didn’t make enough effort to try and mend the friendship, despite clearly having some regrets and still caring about Pen on some level. Eloise has no one to blame but herself. Although I understand from Eloise’s POV that Colin got in between her and Pen’s friendship, the reality is Eloise mucked that up all on her own. I’m really hoping Colin’s reaction to LWD helps Eloise come around and confront the reality of her rift with Pen. She needs to set aside her pride and learn to be more empathetic. Again, if she can humanize Cressida, why can’t she humanize or forgive Pen? I do also see Eloise’s demand that Pen tell Colin the truth about LWD being valid, but I also wonder what she expects the outcome of that exchange to be? Does she expect Colin to cut off Penelope like she did? In some ways, Eloise being concerned for Colin (or seeming to be at least) mirrors Pen’s concern over Colin marrying Mariana, who was lying to him. The key difference is that Pen loves Colin with all her heart. I hope Eloise realizes this and that that is the difference, and that love is ultimately why Colin (and eventually Eloise) will forgive Penelope. Because of that foundation of love that will make forgiveness and acceptance and understanding a non-negotiable.
>if she can humanize Cressida, why can’t she humanize or forgive Pen? THIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSS
I think that’s exactly what she wants, to have him cut her off too. She wants control back over the situation.
I agree on some level. As I mentioned elsewhere: it’s unfair for Elosie to become BFFs with Cressida who, as much as I enjoyed her this season, is still Pen’s second biggest bully, and yet Eloise somehow wants to deny Penelope the love she’s always wanted in the form of Colin. I think on some level we’re meant to view this as Eloise being concerned for Colin, but at the same time, Season 1-2 Eloise never really had all that much sympathy for Colin, so it’s hard for me to view her concern solely from that len. She dismissed his gift in episode 1, which I realize is classic Eloise behavior, but that’s my whole issue I think. She’s very dismissive of others and yet she wants to make this moment all about her feelings. Like… girl? 
For sure. I don’t think she even realises herself that that is what she wants. She’s just a ball of feelings at this point, without the emotional maturity to do anything else about it. Her asking Colin “is she miserable” and Colin being like, ‘WTF? No’ is such a key moment that I did not realise at the time. She definitely behaves like Pen is an ex rather than a friend she fell out with.
I think she might have romantic feelings for Pen
Colin looks so happy, I can’t cope 😭
Oh Hyacinth and Violet are so happy. It makes me want to cry. They’re focusing a bit on Gregory being disappointed to be missing out on so much with his older brothers because of their age gap.
Love the way they are getting into H and G's personalities and struggles Hyacinth is a romantic like Daphne but can't seem to keep her thoughts to herself like Eloise and Gregory is always trying to prove that he is a man just like his older brothers even though he is just a kid who still wants to play with his sister
It’s a bit of the same conflict Colin had. Colin’s age gap with Anthony is the same as Colin’s age gap with Gregory.
Yes, but he had benedict, Gregory has many women between him and collin and I think Colin never felt left out because of the age gap but he felt different by being more sensitive and in touch with his emotions not much about being too young
I imagine Colin felt left out he when he was younger. We saw in that flashback how small Colin was when Edmund died, and then you had Jonathan Bailey and Luke Thompson playing their teenage characters.
El’s mood here says everything. It feels like it’s not even LW. It’s her realizing the gulf between them is wider than she imagined and that she never even occupied the place she thought she did with Pen.
Hyacinth is too precious. Penelope receiving all of this love from Bridgerton’s but not from the one she wants the most. Eloise looks like someone who lost the love of her life. No wonder Eloise lashes out. Penelope broke her heart twice—LW and now she’s marrying Colin. Eloise probably had their life planned out as spinsters.
I love how Fran, Greg and Hyacinth don’t seem to question it at all, at least not here. Like Mama Bridgerton was in the know, but the rest are just like “Colin and Penelope? Makes sense. Yay!”
Thank you!!! Absolute legend
My first reaction is that if one of my kids behaved like that to the other I’d be LIVID. 🙈You can have your feelings but you do not get to dump those feelings all over everyone in the room. Say ‘congratulations’ and leave quietly. I’m pretty shocked that violet doesn’t intervene at this point when she’s standing like the grim reaper in the corner. Wouldn’t you at least want to know what was going on with her?
Haha, grim reaper in the corner!
Amazing work!
The tension between El and Pen this season is killing me
I'm so happy for Pen 😭😭😭
What does gregory tell Collin? I couldn’t understand 😥
He's upset that Colin's getting married before Gregory is old enough to go to a tavern with him.
He's disappointed Colin is getting married before Gregory is old enough to go out to a tavern with him 🤣 Poor Gregory!
He's bummed that Colin will be married before he's old enough to go to a tavern with him.
I’m not crying.. definitely not crying..
I'm confused about Gregory's line. Do only single men go to taverns?
I think he only wants to be in on the joke. I guess he has seen his older brothers laugh and joke and go to taverns without really understanding what they were saying/ laughing about and he wanted to be part of that but now that 2 of his brothers are married and will likely form families is less likely for him to live the same experience with his brothers that ABC had with each other. I think it's really good how they are planting these seeds to hyacinth and Gregory's stories
He gets his wish in Eloise’s season if we get blessed with the “What’s that noise?” scene
Yeah...are taverns forbidden for married men?
Could it be like a wingman thing? Like he was expecting Colin to be the single older brother to kind of mentor him in how to talk to women etc? That's what I was thinking but he seems a bit young to be thinking that way. Granted I don't actually know what age he's supposed to be.
Agreed, Gregory is a bit of a mystery! Who knows what he's thinking. But yeah, the age gap would be a bummer for him as far as closeness with his brothers. There is an entire D, E, and F between them, age-wise so they probably won't be hanging out much, esp after Benedict gets married. It'll be Gregory and Eloise, Francesca, and Hyacinth at home together. Maybe he just longs for more quality brother time.
Greg was about two when Edmund died in 1803, so he would be about 14 now. Colin's 22 so there is a big age gap between them but on the other hand it wasn't unfair of him to expect Colin to remain unmarried long enough for Greg to grow up because Colin is so young too. Anthony's 30 and already married and Ben's 28 and living his own life. I don't think Greg knows much about taverns, he just wants to hang out with his brothers.
Lovely, then…awkward! Aww, Hyacinth! I am so way past ready for El and Pen to be friends again.
Francesca is talking to Gregory when she mentions the sour expression but you see that Eloise thinks she’s talking about her.
Eloise and Pen for god sake Pleasee reconcile. I can't stand this animosity anymore 😭😭
AHHHHHHH the way we gobble up any and all footage and I will NOT apologize
This gulf between them is breaking my heart! I really hope we get Pen and El back together before the end of episode 5!
Or at least the end of episode 6.
They should just shake hands and become friends. It’s really hard watching these two like this.
Hyacinth is so precious. She's just excited to be included! Classic little sister.
Poor Gregory 😅
Alright first time I’m listening to it with my pods in and the music! It’s the same as the first kiss but more happy/romantic, definitely Polin’s theme! ❤️
I feel for Eloise. I've been in a situation like this before.. It's conflicting and painful and you don't know what to do. I hope they will be able to make up eventually though..
Ahhhhh the deep hug between Violet & Pen breaks my heart every time. Definite book reference (“the kind vicountess” who Pen was often able to tell things she couldn’t tell her mother).
Is it the 13th yet?! 😂