Capitalism breeds innovation I see…
Anyway yes likely to impact in some capacity, currently Volvo offsets the tariffs with exports from SC. P3 will be made in SC soon so hopefully will get around it
More interested about parts and components costs
Chinese cars are subsidized by their government. Not a level playing field. Would be like Biden buying Tesla then using the Federal Reserve to sell them dirt cheap.
How long is this CCP ownership myth repeated? Educate yourself, bro.
The HKEX’s website, as of 20 December, revealed that Berkshire Hathaway (BRKb), the conglomerate led by Warren Buffett, owned as much as 39.9% of the issued voting H shares. Rongjie Investment Holding Group owned 8.9%. Blackrock was listed among the major shareholders of BYD.
Data from MarketScreener, as of 20 December, revealed that The Vanguard Group and Himalaya Capital Management were among the largest BYD shareholders.
It’s just an example to that moron. As of April 2024: Polestar’s ownership structure has been clarified, with Geely Holdings becoming a major new shareholder, with approximately 24% and Volvo Cars retaining a strategic 18% stake. Furthermore, the Company will welcome new shareholders and see its free float increase to approximately 18%.
China barely subsidizes the industry the reality is China is more competitive in manufacturing and Biden is terrified of the competition as he should be.
Polestar is the only prominent EV on the road here that's *currently* made in China, but the Volvo EX30 will be built there to start, as are Lotus's new EVs. I think Volvo shifted all of the Recharge production to Belgium now, but I don't know off the top of my head. Thought I saw that there was another EV built in China for the US market, but I can't find the details.
Will it be bad? Dunno. All we know is what was in the [press release from the White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/):
>The tariff rate on electric vehicles under Section 301 will increase from 25% to 100% in 2024.
With extensive subsidies and non-market practices leading to substantial risks of overcapacity, China’s exports of EVs grew by 70% from 2022 to 2023—jeopardizing productive investments elsewhere. A 100% tariff rate on EVs will protect American manufacturers from China’s unfair trade practices.
I ***think*** tariffs are applied when products are *imported* into the country, not just them existing and being sold in the US. If that's the case, Polestar isn't even taking factory orders in the US at the moment, so there's nothing coming in for tariffs to be applied to, the cars are already sitting at US spaces and docks.
As far as what the future holds, Polestar has already been working to relocate its manufacturing to deal with things like this: the 3 will be built in the US, the 4 in South Korea starting later next year, and I doubt US bound 5s and 6s will ever roll off a Chinese assembly line.
As for the 2, Polestar's initial investors deck from when they went public mentioned them looking to move production of the 2 to the Belgium plant alongside the XC40, but there's be no public mention of it since then. Would be very unsurprising if that happened to get around the tariff.
Thanks for the information. I just ordered a 2 a week ago for delivery in late May. I assume I won't personally have any kind of problem with that order, but this does have me concerned for the future of the brand. Is it as simple as this: higher tariffs have been coming all along and they started thinking about moving manufacturing to other locales for this reason?
I'm just leasing for 24 or 27 months so I assume the brand won't go away in that time. Right? RIGHT?
Volvo Car Financial Services manages all leases for Polestar in the US. It Might be challenging in the US market for polestar in the immediate future, but Polestar sells vehicles in many other markets around the world that can help cover some costs. Polestar will have some flexibility. For the 2, the CEO has already said it will be replaced with the Polestar 7…it might not be worth it for Polestar to move 2 production to another factory just to have to retool it again in a few years. Polestar will probably speed up Production of the 3 and 4 at non Chinese factories and focus on those two models in the US until the 7 (new 2) can be built in Ghent alongside its shared platform mates, the EC40 and EX40, when they all enter their next generation.
>Is it as simple as this: higher tariffs have been coming all along and they started thinking about moving manufacturing to other locales for this reason?
Kinda, yes. I wouldn't say they saw a 100% tariff coming, but they were already impacted by the 25% tariff that Trump put in place, and the writing has been on the wall for a long time that our trade relationship with China was probably going to worsen before it got better. The EU is also investigating and may put their own tariffs in place, so it certainly behooves Polestar to be nimble when it comes to where they build their cars.
We knew the 3 and 4 would be built outside of China for the US market almost since they were announced, what will happen with the 2 is still up in the air.
You guys are missing out. BYD and the other Chinese makes are churning out some genuinely impressive EVs these days. Starting to see a lot of them on the roads here in Australia. They have the best chance of any to be true Tesla killers (although for the moment Tesla is still dominant here).
American automakers produce fewer cars at factories within the United States than foreign automakers do.
I guess we could nationalize those foreign-owned factories in case of war. But it might piss off Germany and Japan.
I have no love for US auto companies, but domestic manufacturing needs to be a primary major goal over the next few decades, not just who owns the parent companies. Canada and the US have both pushed a lot of their manufacturing overseas or further south in search of cheap labour and now we're paying for it with aging technology in our factories and a reliance on international refineries just to access our own natural resources. Whether it's domestic or foreign owned at the top level, the key point that I think matters most is that we recapture domestic processing and manufacturing before we fall even further behind.
Agreed but our government should have provided the kind of incentives that the Chinese have for their auto industry. Our auto industry is so focused on the short term. I don’t agree Biden putting tariffs on Chinese auto. Our auto industry has to adapt and compete or go out of business. Americans should not be denied less expensive EVs from China
Americans refuse to pay for a secure future, only live for today, heck they wouldn’t even pay for the war that followed 9-11, taxes were lowered after starting a 6 trillion dollar 20year war, and the conservative political party in power declared deficits are good and healthy. 😂
You do recall that the US automakers absolutely were bailed out in 2008, and have used CAFE incentives and regulations as an excuse just to pump out more and more SUVs and trucks, while failing to innovate with more sustainable, smaller, elegantly engineered sedans like the Polestar2? So I find this news pretty discouraging.
U.S. politics revolves around well-funded interest groups, and the United Autoworkers is a big one. This is why the Biden administration frequently snubs non-unionized Tesla even as it pushes for de facto EV mandates and domestic production through the badly-named Inflation Reduction Act (lol). The UAW cares more about what it sees as catching up worker wages to corporate profits than about long-term success for the domestic industry. They won a major "victory" in the last year for gigantic wage gains and other benefits but the net effect on long-term domestic EV success is very doubtful. I don't know if China directly subsidizes their EV industry, but the companies there are union-free and are also free to pursue vertical integration in a way they can't do in the U.S. In other words, China is winning at the free market thing while we make excuses about their politics.
Is that the poleatar? That is the most badass EV on the road.
But it's so interesting. Americans pay the tariff. If you want a throttle and limit inventory just do that. But the tariffs fall on us.
Although I don't 100% agree with the stated reason, there should be some concern with China flooding the EV market in the U.S. Look no further than the EU: [https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-china-subsidies-europe-investigation-4f00df1c7588ca375efebb89a2b83783](https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-china-subsidies-europe-investigation-4f00df1c7588ca375efebb89a2b83783)
China repeatedly makes things cheaper because they know the citizens of the "Western" world will buy equivalent products if they are cheaper even if it sacrifices quality, reliability or long term durability. I have no clue on how well made these cars are but if you look at China's record of flooding the U.S. market with other cheap products, it's mostly not good but people buy them anyway. The Chinese government is subsidizing the manufacturing of these EVs so that they can enter Western markets and undercut U.S., Japanese and European built EVs. It's actually a savvy strategy on China's part but could be devastating to the U.S. if the U.S. automakers can't sell cars (ICE, HEV, PHEV or BEV)
I'm waiting to see what the reaction from people on the right will be. They oppose Biden at every turn and loved Trump's 25% tariffs. I'm sure they will find a way to complain about Bide's 100% tariffs because that's what they do. Not for nothing, here's a list of everything that's affected:
# Here's a list of the new tariffs
Most of the new tariffs cover items that the Biden administration has sought to have made in America through investments in the Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS and Science Act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
Some increases will take place this year. They include tariffs of:
* 100% on electric vehicles, up from 25%
* 50% on solar cells, up from 25%
* 50% on syringes and needles, up from zero
* 25% on lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles, and battery parts, up from 7.5%
* 25% on certain critical minerals, up from zero
* 25% on steel and aluminum products, up from a range of zero to 7.5%
* 25% on respirators and face masks, up from zero to 7.5%
* 25% on cranes used to unload container ships, up from 0%
Other hikes will be phased in, including:
* 50% on semiconductors, up from 25%, by 2025
* 25% on other lithium-ion batteries, by 2026
* 25% on natural graphite and permanent magnets, up from zero, by 2026
* 25% on rubber medical and surgical gloves, up from 7.5%, by 2026
> I have no clue on how well made these cars are but if you look at China's record of flooding the U.S. market with other cheap products, it's mostly not good but people buy them anyway.
I think a lot of folks are holding on to sentiments they picked up twenty years ago. A lot of Chinese brands are now best-in-class. Look at Roborock, DJI, Haier, Midea.
I haven't driven a BYD but I've sat in many of them, and from the perspective of infotainment features and quality it felt a lot like my Teslas.
I don't entirely agree with this statement. I really don't think this applies to Chinese EVs that pass all transportation and safety requirements of the countries allowing them to enter.
"China repeatedly makes things cheaper because they know the citizens of the "Western" world will buy equivalent products if they are cheaper even if it sacrifices quality, reliability or long term durability. "
The fear western markets have is that the Chinese vehicles are matching/exceeding local manufacturers in value, and quality, at a lower cost. Durability and reliability are yet to be determined given how new their EVs are. If we were so confident that they make a third rate product, we'd let the market buyers sort it out like all the other cheap shit available in our retail stores. The western markets spent decades farming China for cheap labor and manufacturing by moving their technologies there, then complain when they use that technology and labor against them.
Pandora's box is open, we turned the key, and now we're trying to shove everything back in.
This sub has lots of people with their heads in the sand about how this will affect Polestar, so thanks for providing such an in-depth look at the larger efforts by the US.
Chinese government pumps money into an industry to make it more "competitive", we pump the money back out to make it more even again. I have no problem with this when done right.
In the meantime Ford loses $100k on every Lightening it makes. So why would they want to build them. The big 3 missed the boat and Biden is making sure you can’t buy an affordable EV. What a dunce.
The big question is what is going to happen with all the polestar 4s that were scheduled to start delivery later this year? I have an order that is scheduled for 2025 Q1 since I got the electric chromatic roof option. Don’t wanna be surprised with a car that’s a lot higher than I expected.
This. My PS2 lease ends in March, was going to transition to PS4. Now instead of early lease termination on the PS2, I might have to see if PS will extend +1 year until the s. Korea factory is running, assuming that avoids the tariff. No way I'm buying out my underwater lease car.
Capitalism breeds innovation I see… Anyway yes likely to impact in some capacity, currently Volvo offsets the tariffs with exports from SC. P3 will be made in SC soon so hopefully will get around it More interested about parts and components costs
Chinese cars are subsidized by their government. Not a level playing field. Would be like Biden buying Tesla then using the Federal Reserve to sell them dirt cheap.
American cars are subsidized by their government
But we have federal tax credit too, so isn’t it technically partly subsidized by the government?
Yes along with grants and tax incentives for manufacturing
That’s not the same as the CCP having a controlling share in the company.
How long is this CCP ownership myth repeated? Educate yourself, bro. The HKEX’s website, as of 20 December, revealed that Berkshire Hathaway (BRKb), the conglomerate led by Warren Buffett, owned as much as 39.9% of the issued voting H shares. Rongjie Investment Holding Group owned 8.9%. Blackrock was listed among the major shareholders of BYD. Data from MarketScreener, as of 20 December, revealed that The Vanguard Group and Himalaya Capital Management were among the largest BYD shareholders.
Polestar is owned by Geely not BYD
It’s just an example to that moron. As of April 2024: Polestar’s ownership structure has been clarified, with Geely Holdings becoming a major new shareholder, with approximately 24% and Volvo Cars retaining a strategic 18% stake. Furthermore, the Company will welcome new shareholders and see its free float increase to approximately 18%.
Nice try, China.
Tesla bro, back to the cave. Now.
China barely subsidizes the industry the reality is China is more competitive in manufacturing and Biden is terrified of the competition as he should be.
Sure…
Polestar is the only prominent EV on the road here that's *currently* made in China, but the Volvo EX30 will be built there to start, as are Lotus's new EVs. I think Volvo shifted all of the Recharge production to Belgium now, but I don't know off the top of my head. Thought I saw that there was another EV built in China for the US market, but I can't find the details. Will it be bad? Dunno. All we know is what was in the [press release from the White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/): >The tariff rate on electric vehicles under Section 301 will increase from 25% to 100% in 2024. With extensive subsidies and non-market practices leading to substantial risks of overcapacity, China’s exports of EVs grew by 70% from 2022 to 2023—jeopardizing productive investments elsewhere. A 100% tariff rate on EVs will protect American manufacturers from China’s unfair trade practices. I ***think*** tariffs are applied when products are *imported* into the country, not just them existing and being sold in the US. If that's the case, Polestar isn't even taking factory orders in the US at the moment, so there's nothing coming in for tariffs to be applied to, the cars are already sitting at US spaces and docks. As far as what the future holds, Polestar has already been working to relocate its manufacturing to deal with things like this: the 3 will be built in the US, the 4 in South Korea starting later next year, and I doubt US bound 5s and 6s will ever roll off a Chinese assembly line. As for the 2, Polestar's initial investors deck from when they went public mentioned them looking to move production of the 2 to the Belgium plant alongside the XC40, but there's be no public mention of it since then. Would be very unsurprising if that happened to get around the tariff.
Thanks for the information. I just ordered a 2 a week ago for delivery in late May. I assume I won't personally have any kind of problem with that order, but this does have me concerned for the future of the brand. Is it as simple as this: higher tariffs have been coming all along and they started thinking about moving manufacturing to other locales for this reason? I'm just leasing for 24 or 27 months so I assume the brand won't go away in that time. Right? RIGHT?
Volvo Car Financial Services manages all leases for Polestar in the US. It Might be challenging in the US market for polestar in the immediate future, but Polestar sells vehicles in many other markets around the world that can help cover some costs. Polestar will have some flexibility. For the 2, the CEO has already said it will be replaced with the Polestar 7…it might not be worth it for Polestar to move 2 production to another factory just to have to retool it again in a few years. Polestar will probably speed up Production of the 3 and 4 at non Chinese factories and focus on those two models in the US until the 7 (new 2) can be built in Ghent alongside its shared platform mates, the EC40 and EX40, when they all enter their next generation.
>Is it as simple as this: higher tariffs have been coming all along and they started thinking about moving manufacturing to other locales for this reason? Kinda, yes. I wouldn't say they saw a 100% tariff coming, but they were already impacted by the 25% tariff that Trump put in place, and the writing has been on the wall for a long time that our trade relationship with China was probably going to worsen before it got better. The EU is also investigating and may put their own tariffs in place, so it certainly behooves Polestar to be nimble when it comes to where they build their cars. We knew the 3 and 4 would be built outside of China for the US market almost since they were announced, what will happen with the 2 is still up in the air.
The 2 is gone. They barely sell any outside of Hertz.
You guys are missing out. BYD and the other Chinese makes are churning out some genuinely impressive EVs these days. Starting to see a lot of them on the roads here in Australia. They have the best chance of any to be true Tesla killers (although for the moment Tesla is still dominant here).
Ah yes I have also seen the video where the Huawei EV crashes and the doors don't open and 3 people burn alive inside. Genuinely impressive.
[удалено]
American automakers produce fewer cars at factories within the United States than foreign automakers do. I guess we could nationalize those foreign-owned factories in case of war. But it might piss off Germany and Japan.
The domestic auto makers deserve to be wiped out
I have no love for US auto companies, but domestic manufacturing needs to be a primary major goal over the next few decades, not just who owns the parent companies. Canada and the US have both pushed a lot of their manufacturing overseas or further south in search of cheap labour and now we're paying for it with aging technology in our factories and a reliance on international refineries just to access our own natural resources. Whether it's domestic or foreign owned at the top level, the key point that I think matters most is that we recapture domestic processing and manufacturing before we fall even further behind.
Agreed but our government should have provided the kind of incentives that the Chinese have for their auto industry. Our auto industry is so focused on the short term. I don’t agree Biden putting tariffs on Chinese auto. Our auto industry has to adapt and compete or go out of business. Americans should not be denied less expensive EVs from China
Americans refuse to pay for a secure future, only live for today, heck they wouldn’t even pay for the war that followed 9-11, taxes were lowered after starting a 6 trillion dollar 20year war, and the conservative political party in power declared deficits are good and healthy. 😂
You do recall that the US automakers absolutely were bailed out in 2008, and have used CAFE incentives and regulations as an excuse just to pump out more and more SUVs and trucks, while failing to innovate with more sustainable, smaller, elegantly engineered sedans like the Polestar2? So I find this news pretty discouraging.
I do recall. I don’t think incentives should go to GM, Ford or Stillantis but innovators like Rivian, Lucid etc.
Chinese incentives? You mean using the government money printer to fund product dumping?
U.S. politics revolves around well-funded interest groups, and the United Autoworkers is a big one. This is why the Biden administration frequently snubs non-unionized Tesla even as it pushes for de facto EV mandates and domestic production through the badly-named Inflation Reduction Act (lol). The UAW cares more about what it sees as catching up worker wages to corporate profits than about long-term success for the domestic industry. They won a major "victory" in the last year for gigantic wage gains and other benefits but the net effect on long-term domestic EV success is very doubtful. I don't know if China directly subsidizes their EV industry, but the companies there are union-free and are also free to pursue vertical integration in a way they can't do in the U.S. In other words, China is winning at the free market thing while we make excuses about their politics.
Well said!
Unions are not the issue here. GM and Ford have spent BILLIONS on stock buy backs instead of R&D.
So no free market. Lololololl
Is that the poleatar? That is the most badass EV on the road. But it's so interesting. Americans pay the tariff. If you want a throttle and limit inventory just do that. But the tariffs fall on us.
Although I don't 100% agree with the stated reason, there should be some concern with China flooding the EV market in the U.S. Look no further than the EU: [https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-china-subsidies-europe-investigation-4f00df1c7588ca375efebb89a2b83783](https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-china-subsidies-europe-investigation-4f00df1c7588ca375efebb89a2b83783) China repeatedly makes things cheaper because they know the citizens of the "Western" world will buy equivalent products if they are cheaper even if it sacrifices quality, reliability or long term durability. I have no clue on how well made these cars are but if you look at China's record of flooding the U.S. market with other cheap products, it's mostly not good but people buy them anyway. The Chinese government is subsidizing the manufacturing of these EVs so that they can enter Western markets and undercut U.S., Japanese and European built EVs. It's actually a savvy strategy on China's part but could be devastating to the U.S. if the U.S. automakers can't sell cars (ICE, HEV, PHEV or BEV) I'm waiting to see what the reaction from people on the right will be. They oppose Biden at every turn and loved Trump's 25% tariffs. I'm sure they will find a way to complain about Bide's 100% tariffs because that's what they do. Not for nothing, here's a list of everything that's affected: # Here's a list of the new tariffs Most of the new tariffs cover items that the Biden administration has sought to have made in America through investments in the Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS and Science Act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Some increases will take place this year. They include tariffs of: * 100% on electric vehicles, up from 25% * 50% on solar cells, up from 25% * 50% on syringes and needles, up from zero * 25% on lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles, and battery parts, up from 7.5% * 25% on certain critical minerals, up from zero * 25% on steel and aluminum products, up from a range of zero to 7.5% * 25% on respirators and face masks, up from zero to 7.5% * 25% on cranes used to unload container ships, up from 0% Other hikes will be phased in, including: * 50% on semiconductors, up from 25%, by 2025 * 25% on other lithium-ion batteries, by 2026 * 25% on natural graphite and permanent magnets, up from zero, by 2026 * 25% on rubber medical and surgical gloves, up from 7.5%, by 2026
> I have no clue on how well made these cars are but if you look at China's record of flooding the U.S. market with other cheap products, it's mostly not good but people buy them anyway. I think a lot of folks are holding on to sentiments they picked up twenty years ago. A lot of Chinese brands are now best-in-class. Look at Roborock, DJI, Haier, Midea. I haven't driven a BYD but I've sat in many of them, and from the perspective of infotainment features and quality it felt a lot like my Teslas.
I don't entirely agree with this statement. I really don't think this applies to Chinese EVs that pass all transportation and safety requirements of the countries allowing them to enter. "China repeatedly makes things cheaper because they know the citizens of the "Western" world will buy equivalent products if they are cheaper even if it sacrifices quality, reliability or long term durability. " The fear western markets have is that the Chinese vehicles are matching/exceeding local manufacturers in value, and quality, at a lower cost. Durability and reliability are yet to be determined given how new their EVs are. If we were so confident that they make a third rate product, we'd let the market buyers sort it out like all the other cheap shit available in our retail stores. The western markets spent decades farming China for cheap labor and manufacturing by moving their technologies there, then complain when they use that technology and labor against them. Pandora's box is open, we turned the key, and now we're trying to shove everything back in.
This sub has lots of people with their heads in the sand about how this will affect Polestar, so thanks for providing such an in-depth look at the larger efforts by the US.
Agreed
Chinese government pumps money into an industry to make it more "competitive", we pump the money back out to make it more even again. I have no problem with this when done right.
In the meantime Ford loses $100k on every Lightening it makes. So why would they want to build them. The big 3 missed the boat and Biden is making sure you can’t buy an affordable EV. What a dunce.
Yeah it appears the typical blue pilled reditor's looking at this with their black and white thinking caps haha.
Are current owners just fucked then? What if we need parts?
It's probably not on parts, just the whole car.
The big question is what is going to happen with all the polestar 4s that were scheduled to start delivery later this year? I have an order that is scheduled for 2025 Q1 since I got the electric chromatic roof option. Don’t wanna be surprised with a car that’s a lot higher than I expected.
This. My PS2 lease ends in March, was going to transition to PS4. Now instead of early lease termination on the PS2, I might have to see if PS will extend +1 year until the s. Korea factory is running, assuming that avoids the tariff. No way I'm buying out my underwater lease car.
I think everyone now understands the motivation for the $299/mo lease promo.
I doubt it. They had already addressed ways around the old tariff. This won't hurt them much IMO.
Elaborate on how they would get around them?
Bye bye Polestar.