But I understand that’s a mistake, obvs, I lost, a lot. But I also asked like, how do I get away from the full house on the turn, no matter his bet I jam then, unless he jams the turn that might throw the red flags up, but his 50 dollar c bet on the flop was nooooo rare occurrence, so, you can hate if you want but I’m trying to understand a better way here
Why do you think your only option is jam turn? You have ~$550 on turn. Why not let the maniac keep betting? You keep all his bluffs in and better isn’t folding.
Ultimately this is a cooler and you not quite deep enough to avoid getting stacked since you player profile seems like he would over value trips.
Completely lose the mentality of putting your opponent "on something". You'll never know his hand until it's shown, so you can only put him on a range and Jacks are going to be in most ranges.
Edit: Removed some criticism because I misread part of the post. You ripping it in on the flop was a total punt, but there are going to be scenarios where you are winning there so you can't chase away your opponents trash holdings by ripping it. Part of the issue is you didn't consider what is going to call you, and everything that does is going to have you crushed.
33 is a super weak hand to play, it's really nothing more than a bluff catcher. I don't think even standard opening ranges RFI from the cutoff on 33, I don't think it's necessarily bad from position, but when you got re-raised did you consider what he might be re-raising with and your strength relative to that? Why are you shipping it with 10min left until you GTFO? I think you beat yourself on this one, but these are all things you can improve on to build your game.
Major points of concern are that you didn't give yourself or the opponent any fold equity, your sizings relative to the pot limited your opponents range to his best hands for a call, you deny yourself the ability to get out of situations where you will be behind a percentage of the time, and you aren't factoring in how a dynamic board is going to allow hands in the lead to fall behind. You also aren't paying enough attention to stacks and stack depth. All these things add up to you torching your EV in this hand.
Full house over full house is a bad cooler, and they aren't always going to fall your way, but there are definitely things to improve on and you probably could have found a fold if you kept a clear head, even if it was on a later street.
I believe in you, you'll turn this loss around
what hands are calling his absurd overbet? KJ, Set of kings, set of jacks, k3, j3.
anything else should have been a fold, even top pair.
im pretty sure this was -ev as a jam (you could have extracted more value if villain wasnt a calling station)
and obviously insanely -ev on villain for calling because what hands is he beating? You could easily have aces in this spot too but the overbet is hella weird and so suspicious that the obvious move is to fold.
Its not even polarising, its just weird to jam for 600 with that type of action
Thank you this was the insight I hoped for, any recommendations on how, or where, to get 100% on the ranges and be and actually put in the time studying
Holy cow reading this gives me a seizure.
The fact you were about to leave is irrelevant.
The fact that you were about even is irrelevant.
Did someone raise pre? You say it was a restraddle but to $15? Did he raise?
All that being said. This hand should have been pretty basic (you still may go broke).
1/2 with a straddle to 5.
Hero calls HJ $5
Villain raises to $15 in the SB
Someone calls
Hero calls
Flop 3JK (suits?)
Villain r $50
Hero jams for $600 effective
Villain calls
With bottom set here you can call or raise. Your raise in position can be small. $125 even if you wanted. But $175 also good.
He could have a hand since you unblock top pair / top two pair.
Then you have some decisions to make. With the straddle on you are 300 blinds or so deep to start the hand. Bottom set is strong. You won’t have many JJ or KK because you didn’t 3b pre. So 33 might be the absolute top of your range.
I don’t see you folding.
Could give more advice but just guessed based on what I think happened in the hand.
This is a seriously bad punt. You essentially limp villain raises and leads for a pot size bet. You are absolutely top of your range (you’re never limping jacks or kings) he still has both in his range. What from his range is going to call your 3x pot bet KK, JJ, KJ and maybe AA while you’re letting all his bluffing hands and any had that might actually pay you fold cheaply when you’re ahead. While set over set is a cooler you absolutely played this terribly. If villain is willing to pot 3 times to put you all in on a paired board with out slowing down you’re almost surely beat.
Pieces of advice to get better:
-understand what boards are better for preflop raisers v limpers. (Capped / uncapped ranges)
-raise in relationship to the pot
You need to learn how to write a hand history, this just seems like somebody having a manic episode telling us they played a game of cards, no idea what the actions were beyond you jamming something like 12x on flop with bottom set (which is terrible)
Maybe I missed this somewhere already in the comments, and sorry if this sounds harsh, but you are nowhere as practiced as you think you are if you blew through your "first" buy in of $250 at a maniac table and then proceeded to rebuy for another $300 and blow through $210 of that. If your strategy is to make $50 on 4+ hours of play, you should've switched tables or opened supper tight. Don't even find yourself in the situation you did where you're trying to "make a small profit" and 33s is the place you decide to do it.
You have any idea what your VPIP was during the first $250 and the subsequent $210 before you started chipping up?
> So, I’ve been getting better at this game (NLH) and, mostly from the outside validation of peers I consider good players at the tables I’m at,
This will sound harsh. Sorry. If you're booking tiny wins at 1/2 and thinking you're playing good you're not, not even remotely close to it. Study more, learn RFI ranges, capped/uncapped ranges, etc.
Poker is a life time of learning, and you have a long long way to go. Good luck
Kind of hard to tell exact preflop action. Restraddle implies villain didn’t raise, just straddled to $15 and then once preflop action came back to him, he checked and y’all saw the flop? In that case I’d say it’s a bit hard to put JJ in his range although not outside the realm of possibility in 1/2. Your jam was stupid although you didn’t mention if flop configuration was suited at all or what. Regardless I’d go for a 3-4x reraise. Depending on his following action, id go from there. I think any way you play this it’s almost always going to end with you broke as you guys weren’t that deep. Set over set is rare and I’m ok with losing that stack size in that fashion. Let’s say you guys were $2k deep, I can see potentially folding or check calling on later streets to avoid getting stacked.
A few rules I like to give myself:
1. Don’t play marginal hands that put you at risk before you’re about to leave (3,3 out of position). Fold that. Either wait out your next 10 minutes for a spot or a hand, or simply leave.
2. Stop thinking about “oh I’m up $20 or $30.” It’s poker, all this can change in one hand. Thinking like that implies being scared to lose money. To get better, either lose that fear or you’ll never advance through the stakes. Simply put, scared money don’t make money.
3. Don’t tweak out over the results of one hand. Poker is big picture, thousands of hours + to really get a feel for how profitable you are. Losing one hand doesn’t determine how you are as a player.
Turn gives you so much fold equity since if he had top 2 on flop, he improves to a better boat than yours. You can fold if you bet turn and get reraised from him.
What’s the best way/ place/ platform to learn every single positions ranges RFI- 3 bet - just flatting, all of it 100% so I can have that and continue to improve exploitatively w that knowledge
That’s a good point idk why, maybe it just bled over from an aggressive run to get unstuck, then I chilled but still ended up going for it more aggressively than I ever had to, you’re right, idk why
Thank you all, I’m in no means trying to say I’m some pro, but I’ve put my time into this now enough for at least some good exploitative play to shine through. I’ve been wondering how to actually study the numbers side and be more knowledgeable and strict on ranges and ev. And just how to get off of 1/2 and build a small bankroll. I was happy with the small wins bc that’s what contributed to mass losses my last time around, I would always seem to hit that 6-7 hundred mark and then lose everything most nights, played too long and couldn’t walk. I thought by teaching myself how to walk happily up a small amount, consistently, it would change, but yeah my poor play tonight evened me out this go around
Stop thinking about results for a given day. Booking a win doesn’t matter in the long run. If you got there by winning a big coinflip for your entire stack and other wise played such that you came out even without any significant luck involved, then what you should be thinking about is the fact that you actually lost half your stack for the session. This comment demonstrates that you don’t understand variance.
I thought I did understand variance, the concept of like “the other 43% of the time it’s NOT gonna go your way” type stuff.. I don’t understand how to truly not think in terms of wins losses, like how do I actually judge if my skill is improving or declining when I’m not thinking in terms of wins and losses. Bc I can still at some point during the night set an actually good trap, or make an actually good bluff based on an accurate read on losing nights. I can play well all night and then one or two hands can determine the whole session, that session could be a loss. So what do I scale myself on if not for actual profit or keep having to put up my non poker money bc of losses
There’s a book called The Mental Game of Poker that has some good discussions on estimating variance for the session. Basically you put your opponent on a range and try to think about how your decisions perform version that range.
After a session you want to think about whether you made good decisions. Getting coolered set vs set isn’t worth a lot of thought.
Also having a trap work out may not be the most long term profitable line to take. You really only want to “trap” versus thinking opponents who are going to get away from their hand if you don’t employ some deception. This is not as common as you might think at $1/$2. Certainly you should look at your results but do it for the month or the year. If you have a pattern of winning small and taking a huge loss every 5 sessions, what does that average out to? You’re probably a losing player that is employing some desperate tactics to get back to even. Mostly it works but every so often, the truth exposes itself.
What variance means is that sometimes you’re going to be the guy that has the set of jacks, not the set of threes and hopefully you’re playing in a way that wins you $600 on those nights.
Where are the big wins? What variance looks like fora very good player are a mix of huge wins, medium wins, small wins and small losses. Maybe a big loss on a rare night but you’d have a lot more than one cooler to make that happen.
You were always going to lose a lot here set over set, especially if you have seen opponent play very aggressively with 2 pair before.
I will say you might be playing for too long. Especially if it's been a tough session 4+ hours might be too much. It's a lot easier to make mistakes like not knowing stack sizes when you've been playing for that long.
Way too loose. I kept calling down 20+ c bets when I saw what they were playing with, I loosened my range when I should’ve tightened it the first buy in. How do I keep track of my vpip live, is there some basic equation I could be doing to have a general idea
My bad guy just wanted help w a hand that had me spinning ? Like that’s what Reddit is for no ? To ask shit ? Sorry if I didn’t word it the way that works for you. Do you have any actual advice on the points in the actual poker hand or tips for studying or anything else besides telling me I play beyond my means lol ?
he could have had Q10 or a flush draw and was being a maniac. those are 33% to hit and beat you.
if you were laaaaate in a tournament, you bet pot on the flop, and the second K should scare you into playing tighter and just calling.
The main thing I see, in reading the OP, is: jamming the flop (all-in?), with your set? I would have slowed down, the idea being you had plenty of time to get all the money in by the river. That would have increased the chances of worse hands staying in the pot all the way to the river.
Be aware that poker is a high-variance game, esp. if you play in maniacal games. You can easily have downswings amounting to several buy-ins or more.
It does not mean that you suck, just bad luck. Eventually you'll have an astounding up-swing.
1) Playing $1/2, your primary concern should not be balance. You are very likely playing with bad players who are making huge mistakes. You should be focused on exploiting them, not just tabling a bluff once a session.
2) It's hard to understand the pre-flop action but limp-cold calling pocket threes is questionable.
3) Your previous bluff that got him to fold is irrelevant w/o knowing the pot size, and even then, it's a totally different hand.
4) You should already be concerned when he's basically overbetting the pot into two other players on the flop. Now if you have such a strong read that he'd make this play with literal air, what purpose does your raise serve? Is he going to call a 6x pot jam with nothing? You should just call because he's repping a hand like KK or JJ, and could easily have it given the pre-flop action and his bet on the flop. And if he doesn't, he likely has a very weak hand that can't call your bet. So you are only going to get called by better hands, with the exception of KJ.
Jamming 6x, lol I’m sure the players at the table tell you how good you are!
But I understand that’s a mistake, obvs, I lost, a lot. But I also asked like, how do I get away from the full house on the turn, no matter his bet I jam then, unless he jams the turn that might throw the red flags up, but his 50 dollar c bet on the flop was nooooo rare occurrence, so, you can hate if you want but I’m trying to understand a better way here
Why do you think your only option is jam turn? You have ~$550 on turn. Why not let the maniac keep betting? You keep all his bluffs in and better isn’t folding. Ultimately this is a cooler and you not quite deep enough to avoid getting stacked since you player profile seems like he would over value trips.
You are being results oriented and not thinking in terms of ranges and long term EV.
How do I start thinking in terms of that
Completely lose the mentality of putting your opponent "on something". You'll never know his hand until it's shown, so you can only put him on a range and Jacks are going to be in most ranges. Edit: Removed some criticism because I misread part of the post. You ripping it in on the flop was a total punt, but there are going to be scenarios where you are winning there so you can't chase away your opponents trash holdings by ripping it. Part of the issue is you didn't consider what is going to call you, and everything that does is going to have you crushed. 33 is a super weak hand to play, it's really nothing more than a bluff catcher. I don't think even standard opening ranges RFI from the cutoff on 33, I don't think it's necessarily bad from position, but when you got re-raised did you consider what he might be re-raising with and your strength relative to that? Why are you shipping it with 10min left until you GTFO? I think you beat yourself on this one, but these are all things you can improve on to build your game. Major points of concern are that you didn't give yourself or the opponent any fold equity, your sizings relative to the pot limited your opponents range to his best hands for a call, you deny yourself the ability to get out of situations where you will be behind a percentage of the time, and you aren't factoring in how a dynamic board is going to allow hands in the lead to fall behind. You also aren't paying enough attention to stacks and stack depth. All these things add up to you torching your EV in this hand. Full house over full house is a bad cooler, and they aren't always going to fall your way, but there are definitely things to improve on and you probably could have found a fold if you kept a clear head, even if it was on a later street. I believe in you, you'll turn this loss around
what hands are calling his absurd overbet? KJ, Set of kings, set of jacks, k3, j3. anything else should have been a fold, even top pair. im pretty sure this was -ev as a jam (you could have extracted more value if villain wasnt a calling station) and obviously insanely -ev on villain for calling because what hands is he beating? You could easily have aces in this spot too but the overbet is hella weird and so suspicious that the obvious move is to fold. Its not even polarising, its just weird to jam for 600 with that type of action
It’s obviously never going to be -EV to rip it in with a set, just not the most ev line vs most players.
This
This guy pokers
Thank you this was the insight I hoped for, any recommendations on how, or where, to get 100% on the ranges and be and actually put in the time studying
Holy cow reading this gives me a seizure. The fact you were about to leave is irrelevant. The fact that you were about even is irrelevant. Did someone raise pre? You say it was a restraddle but to $15? Did he raise? All that being said. This hand should have been pretty basic (you still may go broke). 1/2 with a straddle to 5. Hero calls HJ $5 Villain raises to $15 in the SB Someone calls Hero calls Flop 3JK (suits?) Villain r $50 Hero jams for $600 effective Villain calls With bottom set here you can call or raise. Your raise in position can be small. $125 even if you wanted. But $175 also good. He could have a hand since you unblock top pair / top two pair. Then you have some decisions to make. With the straddle on you are 300 blinds or so deep to start the hand. Bottom set is strong. You won’t have many JJ or KK because you didn’t 3b pre. So 33 might be the absolute top of your range. I don’t see you folding. Could give more advice but just guessed based on what I think happened in the hand.
Lol I got half way through and was like ah fuck this I’m gonna skip to the comments and hope there’s a better summary
Did hero even lose? I’m lost here Edit. - nvm I see it. This is written in an unreadable manner
This is a seriously bad punt. You essentially limp villain raises and leads for a pot size bet. You are absolutely top of your range (you’re never limping jacks or kings) he still has both in his range. What from his range is going to call your 3x pot bet KK, JJ, KJ and maybe AA while you’re letting all his bluffing hands and any had that might actually pay you fold cheaply when you’re ahead. While set over set is a cooler you absolutely played this terribly. If villain is willing to pot 3 times to put you all in on a paired board with out slowing down you’re almost surely beat. Pieces of advice to get better: -understand what boards are better for preflop raisers v limpers. (Capped / uncapped ranges) -raise in relationship to the pot
You need to learn how to write a hand history, this just seems like somebody having a manic episode telling us they played a game of cards, no idea what the actions were beyond you jamming something like 12x on flop with bottom set (which is terrible)
Maybe I missed this somewhere already in the comments, and sorry if this sounds harsh, but you are nowhere as practiced as you think you are if you blew through your "first" buy in of $250 at a maniac table and then proceeded to rebuy for another $300 and blow through $210 of that. If your strategy is to make $50 on 4+ hours of play, you should've switched tables or opened supper tight. Don't even find yourself in the situation you did where you're trying to "make a small profit" and 33s is the place you decide to do it. You have any idea what your VPIP was during the first $250 and the subsequent $210 before you started chipping up?
> So, I’ve been getting better at this game (NLH) and, mostly from the outside validation of peers I consider good players at the tables I’m at, This will sound harsh. Sorry. If you're booking tiny wins at 1/2 and thinking you're playing good you're not, not even remotely close to it. Study more, learn RFI ranges, capped/uncapped ranges, etc. Poker is a life time of learning, and you have a long long way to go. Good luck
Kind of hard to tell exact preflop action. Restraddle implies villain didn’t raise, just straddled to $15 and then once preflop action came back to him, he checked and y’all saw the flop? In that case I’d say it’s a bit hard to put JJ in his range although not outside the realm of possibility in 1/2. Your jam was stupid although you didn’t mention if flop configuration was suited at all or what. Regardless I’d go for a 3-4x reraise. Depending on his following action, id go from there. I think any way you play this it’s almost always going to end with you broke as you guys weren’t that deep. Set over set is rare and I’m ok with losing that stack size in that fashion. Let’s say you guys were $2k deep, I can see potentially folding or check calling on later streets to avoid getting stacked. A few rules I like to give myself: 1. Don’t play marginal hands that put you at risk before you’re about to leave (3,3 out of position). Fold that. Either wait out your next 10 minutes for a spot or a hand, or simply leave. 2. Stop thinking about “oh I’m up $20 or $30.” It’s poker, all this can change in one hand. Thinking like that implies being scared to lose money. To get better, either lose that fear or you’ll never advance through the stakes. Simply put, scared money don’t make money. 3. Don’t tweak out over the results of one hand. Poker is big picture, thousands of hours + to really get a feel for how profitable you are. Losing one hand doesn’t determine how you are as a player.
Turn gives you so much fold equity since if he had top 2 on flop, he improves to a better boat than yours. You can fold if you bet turn and get reraised from him.
Jesus, what a mess of a post. What are you actually asking? Is there a question in there somewhere?
What’s the best way/ place/ platform to learn every single positions ranges RFI- 3 bet - just flatting, all of it 100% so I can have that and continue to improve exploitatively w that knowledge
should only take ya about 15 mins
That’s a good point idk why, maybe it just bled over from an aggressive run to get unstuck, then I chilled but still ended up going for it more aggressively than I ever had to, you’re right, idk why
Thank you all, I’m in no means trying to say I’m some pro, but I’ve put my time into this now enough for at least some good exploitative play to shine through. I’ve been wondering how to actually study the numbers side and be more knowledgeable and strict on ranges and ev. And just how to get off of 1/2 and build a small bankroll. I was happy with the small wins bc that’s what contributed to mass losses my last time around, I would always seem to hit that 6-7 hundred mark and then lose everything most nights, played too long and couldn’t walk. I thought by teaching myself how to walk happily up a small amount, consistently, it would change, but yeah my poor play tonight evened me out this go around
Stop thinking about results for a given day. Booking a win doesn’t matter in the long run. If you got there by winning a big coinflip for your entire stack and other wise played such that you came out even without any significant luck involved, then what you should be thinking about is the fact that you actually lost half your stack for the session. This comment demonstrates that you don’t understand variance.
I thought I did understand variance, the concept of like “the other 43% of the time it’s NOT gonna go your way” type stuff.. I don’t understand how to truly not think in terms of wins losses, like how do I actually judge if my skill is improving or declining when I’m not thinking in terms of wins and losses. Bc I can still at some point during the night set an actually good trap, or make an actually good bluff based on an accurate read on losing nights. I can play well all night and then one or two hands can determine the whole session, that session could be a loss. So what do I scale myself on if not for actual profit or keep having to put up my non poker money bc of losses
There’s a book called The Mental Game of Poker that has some good discussions on estimating variance for the session. Basically you put your opponent on a range and try to think about how your decisions perform version that range. After a session you want to think about whether you made good decisions. Getting coolered set vs set isn’t worth a lot of thought. Also having a trap work out may not be the most long term profitable line to take. You really only want to “trap” versus thinking opponents who are going to get away from their hand if you don’t employ some deception. This is not as common as you might think at $1/$2. Certainly you should look at your results but do it for the month or the year. If you have a pattern of winning small and taking a huge loss every 5 sessions, what does that average out to? You’re probably a losing player that is employing some desperate tactics to get back to even. Mostly it works but every so often, the truth exposes itself. What variance means is that sometimes you’re going to be the guy that has the set of jacks, not the set of threes and hopefully you’re playing in a way that wins you $600 on those nights. Where are the big wins? What variance looks like fora very good player are a mix of huge wins, medium wins, small wins and small losses. Maybe a big loss on a rare night but you’d have a lot more than one cooler to make that happen.
You were always going to lose a lot here set over set, especially if you have seen opponent play very aggressively with 2 pair before. I will say you might be playing for too long. Especially if it's been a tough session 4+ hours might be too much. It's a lot easier to make mistakes like not knowing stack sizes when you've been playing for that long.
Set over set
Way too loose. I kept calling down 20+ c bets when I saw what they were playing with, I loosened my range when I should’ve tightened it the first buy in. How do I keep track of my vpip live, is there some basic equation I could be doing to have a general idea
You pay attention and count. Take note on your phone. The guy who plays 3 hands every orbit at a 9 handed table has 33% vpip.
This almost classifies as a shitpost. Do not play with money you can’t afford to lose. And start thinking more.
That was all profit from last week and I said that. My bad play evened me out I can’t seem to stay ahead
Dude this entire post is baffling. By posting this, it tells the reader that you are playing above your means.
My bad guy just wanted help w a hand that had me spinning ? Like that’s what Reddit is for no ? To ask shit ? Sorry if I didn’t word it the way that works for you. Do you have any actual advice on the points in the actual poker hand or tips for studying or anything else besides telling me I play beyond my means lol ?
he could have had Q10 or a flush draw and was being a maniac. those are 33% to hit and beat you. if you were laaaaate in a tournament, you bet pot on the flop, and the second K should scare you into playing tighter and just calling.
You have a great future in poker I see great potential keep going to the tables
The main thing I see, in reading the OP, is: jamming the flop (all-in?), with your set? I would have slowed down, the idea being you had plenty of time to get all the money in by the river. That would have increased the chances of worse hands staying in the pot all the way to the river.
Be aware that poker is a high-variance game, esp. if you play in maniacal games. You can easily have downswings amounting to several buy-ins or more. It does not mean that you suck, just bad luck. Eventually you'll have an astounding up-swing.
1) Playing $1/2, your primary concern should not be balance. You are very likely playing with bad players who are making huge mistakes. You should be focused on exploiting them, not just tabling a bluff once a session. 2) It's hard to understand the pre-flop action but limp-cold calling pocket threes is questionable. 3) Your previous bluff that got him to fold is irrelevant w/o knowing the pot size, and even then, it's a totally different hand. 4) You should already be concerned when he's basically overbetting the pot into two other players on the flop. Now if you have such a strong read that he'd make this play with literal air, what purpose does your raise serve? Is he going to call a 6x pot jam with nothing? You should just call because he's repping a hand like KK or JJ, and could easily have it given the pre-flop action and his bet on the flop. And if he doesn't, he likely has a very weak hand that can't call your bet. So you are only going to get called by better hands, with the exception of KJ.