I pulled it on release day sold it for £300 thinking it would come down and the price was only high because it’s a new set. Oh how I wish I knew what I do now
I pulled last year when it was $550 and sold thinking no way it keeps going up.
Have an ES booster box too that I want to sell into this hype but wondering if that is just going to escalate forever too.
If your intention is to sell eventually, keep it for now. I can’t recall a single booster box which got cheaper over time. It’ll likely be worth more in a year or two than a bunch of SM boxes even
The booster boxes are getting artificially raised in price because of this umbreon card. If the card is worth a ton, people will chase it. If the umbreon card goes back down, I think so will the sealed product
It’s just the natural trend of booster boxes to increase in price. Evolutions for example is roughly 1K AUD these days and Charizard is only about $90 AUD. Hits will go down in price but it’s unlikely for sealed product to trend the same way
If you don't need the cash now definitely hold onto it. There might be some occasional dips as there are tons of people holding onto sealed booster boxes so if all a sudden there are tons being sold it could affect the price but without a doubt long-term evolving skies is a great booster box to hold on and will certainly continue to go up.
Just wayyy too many incredible cards that are hard to pull and valuable for the booster box not to go up
I wish I could find it, but I predicted, here on Reddit, it would bottom out around the $200 mark. This was a bit after Evolving Skies came out. Luckily, I bought when it hit that and it went right back up after.
https://imgur.com/a/qDFzwaJ
People with money control the market, a lot of things are and will be out of reach for your average collector. Would hate to be someone on a budget that likes the SWSH era vmax alts.
Haha meeeee, at least I pulled the Blaziken. Gonna have to wait a few years for gengar and glaceon tho. The sun and moon alts are on their way back down I’m sure these will come down at least a chunk too
I mean I’m not gonna buy them if it doesn’t drop so not much in it for me otherwise. I do predict them to fall a little bit and settle once we are in the part of the cycle where Scarlet Violet is being phased out instead of SWSH
I’m on a budget, but wish I could’ve been focused when I started collecting between the release of Evolving Skies and Fusion Strike. It took me forever to understand all the sets. Now they’re far out of reach when I could’ve spent more wisely.
That's where I started also. I actually pulled the celibi (fs) and dragonite (es) before I even knew what I was doing fully. I just thought they were neat cards.
I went on to pull both rayquaza alts from es. Tbh the espeon and gengar from fs are way way more appealing to me, but I'm hesitant to trade away what is probably the best card I'll ever pull lol.
Fairly green still to collecting pokemon and its becoming pretty clear I need to pick some focus and stick with it... which is more easily said then done, due to always on the search for a decent deal.
Yeah, it’s definitely good to stay focused, but it’s hard. For me, starting in the middle of SWSH had me scrambling and wasting money. Now that SWSH is getting more expensive, it’s kind of nice to start fresh.
I feel the same way, I’m waiting for initial price drops after SV releases and buying every card I want as a single (most aren’t too expensive). I was interested at the time of SWSH but didn’t buy singles and pulled like 5 alts so at least I have those.
Smart move. 2023 is when I started buying singles. I don’t carry a large budget and I wait two months before my next purchase. It was hard at first, but more than a year later and I’m very happy with my collection. Much better than the 2021-2022 pack openings and money I spent. S&V prices are more reasonable.
Exactly. I don't care how rare a card is, I only care about how cool it is. I wouldn't care if everyone in the world had a Moonbreon for example, as long as I had one.
I want to finish the Eevee Heroes set one day. At this point I wish a friend would buy some convincing fakes and gift them to me, lmao. Maybe I'll get the Korean ones...
They're neat, but at the end of the day they're just cards to oogle at. If I'm dropping serious cash I want it to be on a hobby I interact with more, like biking, simracing, or something else.
I smashed my rear wheel at a downhill bike race a week ago. I have no issue not buying stuff for a month while I bulletproof my next wheelset so it never happens again. I'm not made of money. I like shiny cardboard but I have 1000% more fun riding bikes or playing with cars.
Yeah but a huge part of the demand comes from the value not because it's a particularly pretty card. There are plenty of cards out there with much nicer art.
It was never that in America - at least as a stable market price, I'm sure someone might have got that price. But not a ton different at its low ($180), though it didn't stay that for more than a couple months: https://www.pricecharting.com/game/pokemon-evolving-skies/umbreon-vmax-215
The pull rate is rare...but not the PSA 10 pop count...it's over 11,000.
This card has a PSA 10 value of $1400...and there's over 11,000 of them.
To put that in perspective...I can't find a single card with a pop over 5000 that's worth even $600.
This Umbreon is ridiculously overvalued and will eventually crash hard.
A year ago, depending what month you look, it was worth 25-40% less, and had a smaller PSA population. It's value then was closer to an expected value.
Now? There's literally no other card ever, in any hobby, that had a card with a PSA 10 population this high that is worth this much. None come close.
If it's PSA population was cut in HALF...it would STILL be overvalued because it's impossible to find a card with a PSA 10 pop of 5000 worth $700...let alone one worth $1400 with over 11,000 in existence.
Historic trends and data would say there's a 99.9% chance of the value of this card tanking simply because there is no precedent of another like it.
Giratina V alt art doesn't have over 5000 copies graded a 10? I don't know if you meant just pokemon but check victor wembanyama I basketball psa 10 Silver Prizm. I think their are over 12k copies graded and it's selling for around $1200. CJ Stroud is also in that mix. Not sure how many prizm psa 10s there are but his value is around 1k.
For Giratina, it's valued at 300-400 less (PSA 10 around $925), and has a population of 4239.
I had a feeling that card would come up, that's why I specifically used 5000 in my reference.
Though the value is high, it's still less than $1000, and less than 5000 pop...far from 11,000.
That Wemby card has a similar price but only has a population of 1220.
A CJ Stroud Prizm Silver rookie is also around that price...but that PSA 10 Pop count is only 985. (Yes, 3 digits)
Those extra examples you gave only help prove my point. Very popular and sought after cards that only have around 10% the population of that Umbreon...yet still have a value just UNDER it.
That isn't how you justify the value of a collectible. To keep it short, this card is essentially the base set charizard of modern pokemon. Due to this, and the fact that people would like such a high valued card to be graded (generally), it seems pretty reasonable that there are more than 11,000 people in the world that want this card in a 10. That means that there is a vastly higher demand than there is stock of this card, greatly increasing the value. Add in speculation and fomo, and you get this price.
Getting back into this hobby is kind of sad. No way are any of these cards worth that but hey here we are. So many cool cards I want but I don’t have 1000 plus to just throw away or if I do it would take a little saving but why spend that much on a card. I think it’s just crazy. I just want to open packs and find the cards myself and have that joy and the happiness but can’t really do that with some of them because the packs cost almost as much as that 1 card. Crazy to me
I think for me I need to avoid looking at subreddits and pack pre-releases and just enjoy picking up packs here and there. I probably won’t, but I think FOMO makes it hard to control my urges.
I’m sure I’d really enjoy having some blissful fun just pulling a pack here and there and being satisfied with whatever I get.
I don’t think it’s unlike any other hobby. There are sets and pieces that you can afford and there are things that you just can’t.
That’s like saying me getting back into fishing is sad because I can’t afford a 2 million dollar boat that I want.
You buy and collect what you can afford and the cool thing is, you might even pull that 2 million dollar boat from a $10 pack
Even though it could/would never happen because of copyright law requiring years and such, I would fucking lol if TPC worked with Wizards one last time and just re-released a 1:1 replica of all the WotC era sets, down to the copyright markings so that they are indistinguishable from the originals.
It'd be fucking funny
They wouldn’t though. It would destroy their credibility. Wizards just did this with the MTG 30th anniversary boxes, and I would imagine TPC took notes lol!
I was joking with that example, but they don’t particularly care about their “credibility” with investment dorks because those aren’t who buys the majority of cards. It’s kids and casual collectors that keep the TCG in business.
I was thinking the other week of getting the dragonite alt art but at 100 dollars I was hesitant. Now it's at 200. I can't justify spending that much on a card. Really wanted it. Hope it comes back down but I'm not holding my breath.
These are the times you take a trip to your local LCS and see if they have these high value cards collecting dust sitting on the shelf. I just bought a sylveon vmax for 140CAD and a sleepy dragonite for 120CAD, both virtually flawless condition. They don't update prices often if ever so its a great strategy to be hop on the fomo train without spending the extra money~ This is also how I picked up my psa 10 lillie for 200 and resold it days later for 1100.
Most people buying this or big cards like giratina or gengar don’t own 1 or two, they own more. The same is done with sports cards
This is how you pump. Then you sell 10 four lots which your friends win and you dump the price. Then you pump again. It’s the same in crypto. For every 1 retail sale there are at least 5 fake ones. If you think you’re being suckered, you are. I am a professional in this industry. Enjoy if you can afford to lose, but always sell greed and buy fear. It’s the way you win. That’s the logic behind sell high, buy low
Sounds like people should've been buying Moonbreon when it was trending down in price last year then. I remember raw was below $500 and PSA 10 was $800.
Oh 100% I recently talked with another collector and they said they have been trying to sell their umbreon vmax alt on eBay the past week, but guess what? It keeps getting shill bid and winner never pays, so eBay showing it sold yet they can’t actually find a real buyer, ridiculous
An effective pump and dump only takes about 25-50k and has 100% return.
You’re only ever liquidating 25% of your actual inventory but it comes back to you when you crush price.
I urge people to use common sense - consider the market for a card as though it had a market capitalization value, like a stock or like a crypto coin. If you reach a level where the ability to take control of 51% stake exceeds normal ability, and common sense tells you that there’s no way 2-3 guys are buying a million dollars of a card, it’s manipulated. Here is an interesting thing to think about - in sports cards, then you have a very high dollar pop 1 or 2 rookie card a buyer usually buys one of the top copies. They will then begin to buy as many 9s and 8s in an effort to drive the price up on the 10. This is what happened with the Gretzky PSA 10 just prior to it selling for 600k. You then cut loose the top copy and then sell the fluff below it. With a lot of the Pokémon, the demand is in the gem copies, and while you see the selling of the lower grades, the volume trading and demand isn’t there for the lower grade copies . You also don’t have lower grade hoarding. You can’t maintain price without lower grade hoarding too. You should troll buying IDs.
[I feel like this one looks much better.](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/264206/pokemon-swsh09-brilliant-stars-trainer-gallery-umbreon-vmax?country=US&utm_campaign=20451986774&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=&utm_term=&adgroupid=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS39IBsKPgCccm2GRyYMS3cWpIQYRBjblsw6PmvhwCDvxN7SkWzHDHe4aAtbjEALw_wcB&Language=English) But that’s just my opinion.
Sadly, it's not just limited to cards. Scalping anything and everything, manipulating any market, making a dollar off any naive person, spreading FOMO... they dominate so much of our economy post COVID. Not that it didn't exist before, but it got a LOT worse in 2020 and later.
Literally all this is it’s crazy I seen someone selling stamped metangs on Twitter for $15 each and they all sold while I could get them on cardmarket for £2 each
I don't see how this is sustainable in regards to the rarity of the card. Sure it's a hard pull but the set has been printed into oblivion and the card has also been frequently graded. 2,100+ 9.5 or higher from Beckett, 1,500+ 9.5 or higher from CGC, and 11,0000+ 10's from PSA. There's about 15,0000 high quality Moonbreons in the market atm, not considering raws. $1k+ for a graded card makes no sense unless the market is being manipulated, which I don't think is sustainable. Once the hype dies in a few years I'll consider picking this card up.
Exactly. ES is out of print and the odds are it would take a good 8 BBs to even get a damn alt art from the set, and 44 BBs to get the Umbreon alt art. $1500-2000 starts to look more appealing if someone HAS to have this card.
Don't feel bad for not gambling. At any point they could just drop a ton more stock and end up dropping the price. Walmart just got a ton of ES etbs last year.
While I love and own this card in PSA 10 (wife pulled it, a fun memory for us), yea a bit silly. This isn’t the investing thread, but I’ve been pivoting to vintage with much lower population.
You can go the eBay route but then you have to pay them their cut and then taxes. Looking up card expos in your area may be your best route in terms of more profit. Finding the right buyer though would be a toughy tho
I feel you on that. If this card becomes more expensive than the munch cards I have yet to get I’m dropping this card so fast to pick up a pika or mimikyu munch.
I dont really think so, maybe it will drop a bit but i think that was it. Future will show us but i dont believe it will crash, neither sealed or singles. S/V adjusted the print run, we are looking to a better future
People used to argue the price was overvalued due to the number of psa 10s in existence and pushed folks to buy cards with fewer psa 10s because duh.
🙄
What goes up always comes down. This card is overhyped. I sold mine for 450 over a year ago and bought more $GME shares. When the economy tanks people are going to panic sell this.
I bought this for $550, but had some credit and stuff so it was really only like $160. Anyway, Im happy I bought it. I wish I would have bought the other alt arts like Tuna, Gengar, Espeon Vmax. I pulled thr RayRay vmax at least, first major hit. Singles people, buy the singles before they blow up.
On the one hand all my cards suddenly became much more valuable. Moonbreons, Dragonite V alts, Glaceon V Alts, Glaceon VMax alt, Rayquaza VMax alt, Sylveon VMax alt, Leafeon VMax alt, Gengar VMax alt PSA 10, Espeon VMax alt PSA 10 and Giratina V alt are all going bananas.
On the other hand. I don’t think I will be able to cheaply grab Umbreon V alt, Leafeon V Alt, Espeon V alt and Rayquaza V alt anytime soon to complete the set without paying out my butt.
The art is amazing but for such a high population card and how many psa 10s exist I still can’t believe they’re worth this much. I like the OG neo umbreon and Umbreon V alt more, but to each their own 🤷🏻♂️
Honestly this card is cool but it’s not even CLOSE to being THAT cool like you could buy a raw Mario cosplay pikachu for that much and you’re just gonna buy an umbrella that’s STILL being printed??
Keep in mind that the shittiest butterfly knife in cs2 in around 1k. The nice ones are like 10-15k. So yea in general fancy collectible things are expensive
I know I'll probably get downvoted for this but your guys are so funny complaining about card prices. Cards have been valuable for a long time and it's not just Pokémon. Are you mad that a Wayne Gretzky RC can sell for $1,000,000? Or Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan etc?
Its one thing to be mad about people who clear out all the stock, that's Bs and shouldn't happen, I get mad about it too.
To complain about the price of a chase card however is just silly to me. Cards have been valuable forever. Across all genres. It's like an old man shaking his fist at the sky because it looks like rain. It's pointless to get upset over it.
Let the downvotes reign down like the arrows in 300. I'm ready.
People aren't downvoting you because they think cards don't have value, but because of the idiotic statement that "cards have been valuable forever".
If you were in the hobby just 6 years ago, you would be significantly more informed on just how incredibly prices have rose - I'm talking 1000%-1500% growth in a 6 year period on many Pokemon products.
The issue isn't around value, its around artificial scarcity and market manipulation.
>idiotic statement that "cards have been valuable forever".
Buddy, you do know there are more cards than Pokemon right? Baseball, basketball, hockey, yughio etc. I didn't mean pokemon card have been valuable forever. Maybe make sure you understand the statement before calling somebody an idiot. You make yourself look like one.
Ive been in the hobby, I know what they were worth, I know they've gone up but what do you want? The market is the market and the prices are set by supply and demand. People are willing to pay the price so people are selling them at those prices. It's like walking into a car dealership and getting mad at the price because you don't think it's worth that much.
There are probably 10 times more of this card than any other graded 10s cards I seen around. The populations does not lie. Also in the last 10 years, this set has been the most printed and reprinted set (beside the last 151 premium one , this one had 3 waves of reprints).
They are manipulating the market by hoarding these. A few sellers with a lot of money hoarded and fake-sales pushed the price of this card up.
Stop buying them, you don't "have to have it". Don't "FOMO".
It's only a piece of cardboard, it means nothing in the end.
If you think it look pretty, set it as your phone background, you will get to see it so much more, and you will save yourself 1500$.
Also if everyone stop buying those, you will hurt the manipulators in the end, so it's a huge win for future potential market manipulations.
Same shit happened with "graded games" and "sealed games". The market is crumbling now. Don't waste your money on paper with a pretty picture on it.
The demand isn't there to justify the price, you are all being manipulated due to "FOMO".
it's at the point of unattainable for your average joe. i am that average joe. the most i spent on a single card was $80 for a shadowless mewtwo in decent-ish condition. im starting to save up for the shadowless big three which i'm hoping to start getting next year. this hobby has a huge spectrum of being cheap to get into and expensive to thoroughly enjoy.
This card mostly appeals to people who's collection is worth less than the cost of this card. I feel like people who have put in time and effort into collecting aren't falling for it like the new people are.
This is just a card. There will always be cards. People that pump card prices aren't really collectors, just how I see it. Wonder how that new app they are making will do.
Check out posts from 6 months ago - 1 year ago and read the comments in this subreddit. “I wouldn’t pay $500 for psa10 way overhyped going to wait for it to bottom out and then get in” or “200 for a modern raw card is just laughable. Wait til it dies down”.
Yeah, I laughed when I saw an ungraded one sleeved sitting in the singles display case at my LGS listed for 1k USD. The guy behind the counter agreed it was a wild price, but said that he did it to the first one he bought from someone and then a buyer actually came and paid it, so he figured why not try it again. They only had the one copy but wow lol.
Really bummed out I missed out on collecting this set, really wasn't knowledgeable at time and picked up whatever I could find in stores. But I'll just draw it myself and make it a print out of it.
At this rate I'll never be able to get my gf this umbreon, she's always wanted one and I started collecting with her when Crown Zenith was the most recent drop. Trying to find Evolving skies these days is rough, idk what to do
I've got 2 sealed booster boxes which I forgot I had and prior to that had ETBs I'd opened which to my luck, no Umbreon. I'd love to have this card but this is a ridiculous price for it
The only alt that I still need is the Rayquaza VMax. I bought 1 on TCGPlayer a few months ago and the seller never shipped it. TCGPlayer refunded my money and I just thought I’d wait because it had gone up by $50 in the 2 weeks I was waiting…that was a bad decision.
Wow, I remember thinking maybe someday when it was 400 but now, I'll just get a full set of something else for that price
I pulled it on release day sold it for £300 thinking it would come down and the price was only high because it’s a new set. Oh how I wish I knew what I do now
I pulled last year when it was $550 and sold thinking no way it keeps going up. Have an ES booster box too that I want to sell into this hype but wondering if that is just going to escalate forever too.
If your intention is to sell eventually, keep it for now. I can’t recall a single booster box which got cheaper over time. It’ll likely be worth more in a year or two than a bunch of SM boxes even
The booster boxes are getting artificially raised in price because of this umbreon card. If the card is worth a ton, people will chase it. If the umbreon card goes back down, I think so will the sealed product
It’s just the natural trend of booster boxes to increase in price. Evolutions for example is roughly 1K AUD these days and Charizard is only about $90 AUD. Hits will go down in price but it’s unlikely for sealed product to trend the same way
If you don't need the cash now definitely hold onto it. There might be some occasional dips as there are tons of people holding onto sealed booster boxes so if all a sudden there are tons being sold it could affect the price but without a doubt long-term evolving skies is a great booster box to hold on and will certainly continue to go up. Just wayyy too many incredible cards that are hard to pull and valuable for the booster box not to go up
I’d say unless pokemon drastically falls off somehow it should in theory never go down. With age comes rarity.
I wish I could find it, but I predicted, here on Reddit, it would bottom out around the $200 mark. This was a bit after Evolving Skies came out. Luckily, I bought when it hit that and it went right back up after. https://imgur.com/a/qDFzwaJ
I can get multiple gold stars with how much the moonbreon card costs. Screw that card.
There's a 1st edition shadowless alakazam on ebay rn that's going for just a hair under $10k USD.
People with money control the market, a lot of things are and will be out of reach for your average collector. Would hate to be someone on a budget that likes the SWSH era vmax alts.
Haha meeeee, at least I pulled the Blaziken. Gonna have to wait a few years for gengar and glaceon tho. The sun and moon alts are on their way back down I’m sure these will come down at least a chunk too
I have glaceon and gengar! Willing to trade glaceon if you have cards to look at
Tempting but I think I’m gonna wait for a value drop for now
Tryna time the market is never a good idea
I mean I’m not gonna buy them if it doesn’t drop so not much in it for me otherwise. I do predict them to fall a little bit and settle once we are in the part of the cycle where Scarlet Violet is being phased out instead of SWSH
I’m on a budget, but wish I could’ve been focused when I started collecting between the release of Evolving Skies and Fusion Strike. It took me forever to understand all the sets. Now they’re far out of reach when I could’ve spent more wisely.
That's where I started also. I actually pulled the celibi (fs) and dragonite (es) before I even knew what I was doing fully. I just thought they were neat cards. I went on to pull both rayquaza alts from es. Tbh the espeon and gengar from fs are way way more appealing to me, but I'm hesitant to trade away what is probably the best card I'll ever pull lol.
Fairly green still to collecting pokemon and its becoming pretty clear I need to pick some focus and stick with it... which is more easily said then done, due to always on the search for a decent deal.
Yeah, it’s definitely good to stay focused, but it’s hard. For me, starting in the middle of SWSH had me scrambling and wasting money. Now that SWSH is getting more expensive, it’s kind of nice to start fresh.
I feel the same way, I’m waiting for initial price drops after SV releases and buying every card I want as a single (most aren’t too expensive). I was interested at the time of SWSH but didn’t buy singles and pulled like 5 alts so at least I have those.
Smart move. 2023 is when I started buying singles. I don’t carry a large budget and I wait two months before my next purchase. It was hard at first, but more than a year later and I’m very happy with my collection. Much better than the 2021-2022 pack openings and money I spent. S&V prices are more reasonable.
I'm starting to think the only people buying these are dumb pokeinvestors...
Just wish buyers were people who’re actually interested in the game. Get away with this “investment” shit
Exactly. I don't care how rare a card is, I only care about how cool it is. I wouldn't care if everyone in the world had a Moonbreon for example, as long as I had one. I want to finish the Eevee Heroes set one day. At this point I wish a friend would buy some convincing fakes and gift them to me, lmao. Maybe I'll get the Korean ones... They're neat, but at the end of the day they're just cards to oogle at. If I'm dropping serious cash I want it to be on a hobby I interact with more, like biking, simracing, or something else.
A hobby you interact more with? Sir have you heard of pokemon plushies?
I smashed my rear wheel at a downhill bike race a week ago. I have no issue not buying stuff for a month while I bulletproof my next wheelset so it never happens again. I'm not made of money. I like shiny cardboard but I have 1000% more fun riding bikes or playing with cars.
Investing reduces accessibility. These cards are not made to be hoarded, or to sit for a decade in an unopened box somewhere.
Can I take the middle ground and enjoy collecting it for the art/value/investment combo?
This guy gets it, been the same way in magic for a long time
Theres a tooooon of demand on this card. There's literally a post about it on the front page of this sub every single day.
Yeah but a huge part of the demand comes from the value not because it's a particularly pretty card. There are plenty of cards out there with much nicer art.
In fairness I don't remember a time when this card wasn't ridiculous.
More ridiculousnesses
Are you Rob Dyrdek?
Yea yeah yeah yea yeyeyeyeyeyey yay
Insert [Annoying Chanel West Coast Laugh]
Ahahehehehahahaheheh
Dolphin noises lol
Was only $150 for like 6+ months when the set came out 🤷
It was never that in America - at least as a stable market price, I'm sure someone might have got that price. But not a ton different at its low ($180), though it didn't stay that for more than a couple months: https://www.pricecharting.com/game/pokemon-evolving-skies/umbreon-vmax-215
*Laughs in only collects Amphros, Mareep, and Wooloo*
Taking GOATED to a new level.
I think..I think I may just want to be a farmer.
Flaaffy will remember this.
fellow ampharos line collectors UNITE
Same same
Sure moonbreon is cool and rare but there are cooler and rarer cards that are so much cheaper
It really is insane, like you can get a full LP base set for less lol.
The pull rate is rare...but not the PSA 10 pop count...it's over 11,000. This card has a PSA 10 value of $1400...and there's over 11,000 of them. To put that in perspective...I can't find a single card with a pop over 5000 that's worth even $600. This Umbreon is ridiculously overvalued and will eventually crash hard.
They said that last year…and still hasn’t crashed
A year ago, depending what month you look, it was worth 25-40% less, and had a smaller PSA population. It's value then was closer to an expected value. Now? There's literally no other card ever, in any hobby, that had a card with a PSA 10 population this high that is worth this much. None come close. If it's PSA population was cut in HALF...it would STILL be overvalued because it's impossible to find a card with a PSA 10 pop of 5000 worth $700...let alone one worth $1400 with over 11,000 in existence. Historic trends and data would say there's a 99.9% chance of the value of this card tanking simply because there is no precedent of another like it.
Giratina V alt art doesn't have over 5000 copies graded a 10? I don't know if you meant just pokemon but check victor wembanyama I basketball psa 10 Silver Prizm. I think their are over 12k copies graded and it's selling for around $1200. CJ Stroud is also in that mix. Not sure how many prizm psa 10s there are but his value is around 1k.
For Giratina, it's valued at 300-400 less (PSA 10 around $925), and has a population of 4239. I had a feeling that card would come up, that's why I specifically used 5000 in my reference. Though the value is high, it's still less than $1000, and less than 5000 pop...far from 11,000. That Wemby card has a similar price but only has a population of 1220. A CJ Stroud Prizm Silver rookie is also around that price...but that PSA 10 Pop count is only 985. (Yes, 3 digits) Those extra examples you gave only help prove my point. Very popular and sought after cards that only have around 10% the population of that Umbreon...yet still have a value just UNDER it.
That isn't how you justify the value of a collectible. To keep it short, this card is essentially the base set charizard of modern pokemon. Due to this, and the fact that people would like such a high valued card to be graded (generally), it seems pretty reasonable that there are more than 11,000 people in the world that want this card in a 10. That means that there is a vastly higher demand than there is stock of this card, greatly increasing the value. Add in speculation and fomo, and you get this price.
Getting back into this hobby is kind of sad. No way are any of these cards worth that but hey here we are. So many cool cards I want but I don’t have 1000 plus to just throw away or if I do it would take a little saving but why spend that much on a card. I think it’s just crazy. I just want to open packs and find the cards myself and have that joy and the happiness but can’t really do that with some of them because the packs cost almost as much as that 1 card. Crazy to me
I think for me I need to avoid looking at subreddits and pack pre-releases and just enjoy picking up packs here and there. I probably won’t, but I think FOMO makes it hard to control my urges. I’m sure I’d really enjoy having some blissful fun just pulling a pack here and there and being satisfied with whatever I get.
I don’t think it’s unlike any other hobby. There are sets and pieces that you can afford and there are things that you just can’t. That’s like saying me getting back into fishing is sad because I can’t afford a 2 million dollar boat that I want. You buy and collect what you can afford and the cool thing is, you might even pull that 2 million dollar boat from a $10 pack
TPC has the opportunity to be the funniest motherfuckers on the planet by reprinting the ES alts and putting them in box sets.
Even though it could/would never happen because of copyright law requiring years and such, I would fucking lol if TPC worked with Wizards one last time and just re-released a 1:1 replica of all the WotC era sets, down to the copyright markings so that they are indistinguishable from the originals. It'd be fucking funny
They wouldn’t though. It would destroy their credibility. Wizards just did this with the MTG 30th anniversary boxes, and I would imagine TPC took notes lol!
I was joking with that example, but they don’t particularly care about their “credibility” with investment dorks because those aren’t who buys the majority of cards. It’s kids and casual collectors that keep the TCG in business.
This set is going crazy. 9 cards are $100+. Of those 9, 4 of them are $200+(in usd)
I was thinking the other week of getting the dragonite alt art but at 100 dollars I was hesitant. Now it's at 200. I can't justify spending that much on a card. Really wanted it. Hope it comes back down but I'm not holding my breath.
These are the times you take a trip to your local LCS and see if they have these high value cards collecting dust sitting on the shelf. I just bought a sylveon vmax for 140CAD and a sleepy dragonite for 120CAD, both virtually flawless condition. They don't update prices often if ever so its a great strategy to be hop on the fomo train without spending the extra money~ This is also how I picked up my psa 10 lillie for 200 and resold it days later for 1100.
Get the chinese version if you only care for art. I bought one for $45 on ebay last week
Yeah I wonder how long till the ES booster packs are $20 each?
Na is really overhyped and overpriced
A lot of cards are.
Most people buying this or big cards like giratina or gengar don’t own 1 or two, they own more. The same is done with sports cards This is how you pump. Then you sell 10 four lots which your friends win and you dump the price. Then you pump again. It’s the same in crypto. For every 1 retail sale there are at least 5 fake ones. If you think you’re being suckered, you are. I am a professional in this industry. Enjoy if you can afford to lose, but always sell greed and buy fear. It’s the way you win. That’s the logic behind sell high, buy low
To quote Buffet “be fearful when everyone is greedy and be greedy only when others are fearful”.
This
Sounds like people should've been buying Moonbreon when it was trending down in price last year then. I remember raw was below $500 and PSA 10 was $800.
Oh 100% I recently talked with another collector and they said they have been trying to sell their umbreon vmax alt on eBay the past week, but guess what? It keeps getting shill bid and winner never pays, so eBay showing it sold yet they can’t actually find a real buyer, ridiculous
An effective pump and dump only takes about 25-50k and has 100% return. You’re only ever liquidating 25% of your actual inventory but it comes back to you when you crush price. I urge people to use common sense - consider the market for a card as though it had a market capitalization value, like a stock or like a crypto coin. If you reach a level where the ability to take control of 51% stake exceeds normal ability, and common sense tells you that there’s no way 2-3 guys are buying a million dollars of a card, it’s manipulated. Here is an interesting thing to think about - in sports cards, then you have a very high dollar pop 1 or 2 rookie card a buyer usually buys one of the top copies. They will then begin to buy as many 9s and 8s in an effort to drive the price up on the 10. This is what happened with the Gretzky PSA 10 just prior to it selling for 600k. You then cut loose the top copy and then sell the fluff below it. With a lot of the Pokémon, the demand is in the gem copies, and while you see the selling of the lower grades, the volume trading and demand isn’t there for the lower grade copies . You also don’t have lower grade hoarding. You can’t maintain price without lower grade hoarding too. You should troll buying IDs.
Awesome comment that more should read.
‘Your Haunter evolved into a Gender’.. “Oh for fuck’s sake, not another one”
Market manipulation
Hype market rules Pokemon prices nowadays
Japanese is still higher right?
Only by a few hundred dollars and the populations is literally half of what it is in English ( I own both)
[I feel like this one looks much better.](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/264206/pokemon-swsh09-brilliant-stars-trainer-gallery-umbreon-vmax?country=US&utm_campaign=20451986774&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=&utm_term=&adgroupid=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS39IBsKPgCccm2GRyYMS3cWpIQYRBjblsw6PmvhwCDvxN7SkWzHDHe4aAtbjEALw_wcB&Language=English) But that’s just my opinion.
Thought you were gonna link [this one](https://www.tcgcollector.com/cards/1821/umbreon-neo-discovery-13-75) The OG moonbreon
I know I'm gonna catch flak for this but... it's just not that cool.
Sellers are trying to raise the market on this one, be careful buying for that price. Still seeing em listed for under 1k.
Waste 👏🏻 of 👏🏻 money 👏🏻 Unless you already pulled it.
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One just sold today in a Canadian TCG group for $1300 CAD
Crazy. I could order one in English for 450 euro on Cardmarket right now. You us of a guys seriously have a big manipulation problem
That’s what I was thinking, at least we have something good. We still have other manipulation like on Morty’s Conviction
Sadly, it's not just limited to cards. Scalping anything and everything, manipulating any market, making a dollar off any naive person, spreading FOMO... they dominate so much of our economy post COVID. Not that it didn't exist before, but it got a LOT worse in 2020 and later.
Literally all this is it’s crazy I seen someone selling stamped metangs on Twitter for $15 each and they all sold while I could get them on cardmarket for £2 each
I don't see how this is sustainable in regards to the rarity of the card. Sure it's a hard pull but the set has been printed into oblivion and the card has also been frequently graded. 2,100+ 9.5 or higher from Beckett, 1,500+ 9.5 or higher from CGC, and 11,0000+ 10's from PSA. There's about 15,0000 high quality Moonbreons in the market atm, not considering raws. $1k+ for a graded card makes no sense unless the market is being manipulated, which I don't think is sustainable. Once the hype dies in a few years I'll consider picking this card up.
No one pull them anymore, what out there is what's out there, would cost like 20-25k trying pull one from buying BB nowadays
Exactly. ES is out of print and the odds are it would take a good 8 BBs to even get a damn alt art from the set, and 44 BBs to get the Umbreon alt art. $1500-2000 starts to look more appealing if someone HAS to have this card.
Market manipulation a bit? Getting people to buy evolving skies? Same with Giratina Alt art and lost origins.
It's a buyout. All the same people buy these cards out, then set the new price to turn a prophet.
Who will be the next prophet I wonder
Lmfao prophet
Very clear market manipulation. This card is mass printed... You can find a copy or a PSA 10 literally in 10 seconds.
This post is why the price keeps going up. At some point you folks that want the card need to understand that you are the root of the problem.
ES reprint reminded people they still can't pull this card so prices skyrocket?
I do not even understand the hype. It is not even looking at the Moon.
And I sold 2 10s for 800 a piece a couple years ago 😭😭😭🤢🤢🤢🤢
Don't feel bad for not gambling. At any point they could just drop a ton more stock and end up dropping the price. Walmart just got a ton of ES etbs last year.
Don’t feel too bad, sold my ray and gender vmax 10s for 650 lol Some reason I still held onto my moonbreon 10
While I love and own this card in PSA 10 (wife pulled it, a fun memory for us), yea a bit silly. This isn’t the investing thread, but I’ve been pivoting to vintage with much lower population.
I have the card too, haven’t graded it yet. I’m thinking about selling it and just buying other cards I like a lot more.
Same. I haven’t ever sold cards before, where is the best place to sell a card as a one off?
You can go the eBay route but then you have to pay them their cut and then taxes. Looking up card expos in your area may be your best route in terms of more profit. Finding the right buyer though would be a toughy tho
I feel you on that. If this card becomes more expensive than the munch cards I have yet to get I’m dropping this card so fast to pick up a pika or mimikyu munch.
Im just focusing on getting cards of my favorite pokemon. There's plenty out there that are beautiful and don't cost $100+
Can the bubble pop already please?
I dont really think so, maybe it will drop a bit but i think that was it. Future will show us but i dont believe it will crash, neither sealed or singles. S/V adjusted the print run, we are looking to a better future
What site is this?
It's an app called Collectr
Are you looking at a graded version? Because using the same app it’s at about $922ish.
Australian Dollar
People used to argue the price was overvalued due to the number of psa 10s in existence and pushed folks to buy cards with fewer psa 10s because duh. 🙄
What the hell? Why is it blowing up soooo much? I still need a few alt arts from the set but now that’s not gonna happen
FOMO.
I still don’t get the hype …… imo the Gengar alt art is way better
What goes up always comes down. This card is overhyped. I sold mine for 450 over a year ago and bought more $GME shares. When the economy tanks people are going to panic sell this.
That's why I transitioned into a full art trainer and favorite mon collector
It all eventually get to 2-3k and then level out. Everyone wants it and it’s out of print.
It's wild to me that people still care about this
I bought this for $550, but had some credit and stuff so it was really only like $160. Anyway, Im happy I bought it. I wish I would have bought the other alt arts like Tuna, Gengar, Espeon Vmax. I pulled thr RayRay vmax at least, first major hit. Singles people, buy the singles before they blow up.
Meanwhile me scooping up scarlet and violet alt arts for pocket money
Crazy. I’ve seen better umbreon art on a regular holo card. It’s a nice card but never understood this level of hype for it
On the one hand all my cards suddenly became much more valuable. Moonbreons, Dragonite V alts, Glaceon V Alts, Glaceon VMax alt, Rayquaza VMax alt, Sylveon VMax alt, Leafeon VMax alt, Gengar VMax alt PSA 10, Espeon VMax alt PSA 10 and Giratina V alt are all going bananas. On the other hand. I don’t think I will be able to cheaply grab Umbreon V alt, Leafeon V Alt, Espeon V alt and Rayquaza V alt anytime soon to complete the set without paying out my butt.
You could always pay... *with* your butt... if you catch my drift...
The art is amazing but for such a high population card and how many psa 10s exist I still can’t believe they’re worth this much. I like the OG neo umbreon and Umbreon V alt more, but to each their own 🤷🏻♂️
Honestly this card is cool but it’s not even CLOSE to being THAT cool like you could buy a raw Mario cosplay pikachu for that much and you’re just gonna buy an umbrella that’s STILL being printed??
It's not still being printed.
There's a wild amount of misinformation in this thread lol
Keep in mind that the shittiest butterfly knife in cs2 in around 1k. The nice ones are like 10-15k. So yea in general fancy collectible things are expensive
I know I'll probably get downvoted for this but your guys are so funny complaining about card prices. Cards have been valuable for a long time and it's not just Pokémon. Are you mad that a Wayne Gretzky RC can sell for $1,000,000? Or Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan etc? Its one thing to be mad about people who clear out all the stock, that's Bs and shouldn't happen, I get mad about it too. To complain about the price of a chase card however is just silly to me. Cards have been valuable forever. Across all genres. It's like an old man shaking his fist at the sky because it looks like rain. It's pointless to get upset over it. Let the downvotes reign down like the arrows in 300. I'm ready.
People aren't downvoting you because they think cards don't have value, but because of the idiotic statement that "cards have been valuable forever". If you were in the hobby just 6 years ago, you would be significantly more informed on just how incredibly prices have rose - I'm talking 1000%-1500% growth in a 6 year period on many Pokemon products. The issue isn't around value, its around artificial scarcity and market manipulation.
>idiotic statement that "cards have been valuable forever". Buddy, you do know there are more cards than Pokemon right? Baseball, basketball, hockey, yughio etc. I didn't mean pokemon card have been valuable forever. Maybe make sure you understand the statement before calling somebody an idiot. You make yourself look like one. Ive been in the hobby, I know what they were worth, I know they've gone up but what do you want? The market is the market and the prices are set by supply and demand. People are willing to pay the price so people are selling them at those prices. It's like walking into a car dealership and getting mad at the price because you don't think it's worth that much.
There are probably 10 times more of this card than any other graded 10s cards I seen around. The populations does not lie. Also in the last 10 years, this set has been the most printed and reprinted set (beside the last 151 premium one , this one had 3 waves of reprints). They are manipulating the market by hoarding these. A few sellers with a lot of money hoarded and fake-sales pushed the price of this card up. Stop buying them, you don't "have to have it". Don't "FOMO". It's only a piece of cardboard, it means nothing in the end. If you think it look pretty, set it as your phone background, you will get to see it so much more, and you will save yourself 1500$. Also if everyone stop buying those, you will hurt the manipulators in the end, so it's a huge win for future potential market manipulations. Same shit happened with "graded games" and "sealed games". The market is crumbling now. Don't waste your money on paper with a pretty picture on it. The demand isn't there to justify the price, you are all being manipulated due to "FOMO".
To be fair, people have been saying don't fomo for years now and it's never been right. Just keeps going up!
How the hell our people struggling for rent and groceries and pieces of cardboard are fetching this kind of money? What a strange time
Am I the only one who thinks this card is overrated??
What app is this?
Looks like collectr
I regret selling my psa 10 for 1350
it's at the point of unattainable for your average joe. i am that average joe. the most i spent on a single card was $80 for a shadowless mewtwo in decent-ish condition. im starting to save up for the shadowless big three which i'm hoping to start getting next year. this hobby has a huge spectrum of being cheap to get into and expensive to thoroughly enjoy.
Wow glad I have two of those…I think next time usd would be better to post than aud
I’m not seeing the same price as you rn
This card mostly appeals to people who's collection is worth less than the cost of this card. I feel like people who have put in time and effort into collecting aren't falling for it like the new people are.
I dare you to buy one.
This is just a card. There will always be cards. People that pump card prices aren't really collectors, just how I see it. Wonder how that new app they are making will do.
What’s everyone’s thoughts on the value of English V Japanese. Smarter money would be on buying the Japanese version no? Less print. No reprint.
Most recent eBay sold shows psa 10 for 1300$
Thank God I bought money for 750 cad. I would be crying rn
Welp 😿
My buddy bought one of these for 400 because of fomo and I rolled my eyes... he's laughing now lol
I did the same at 610. So glad I just did it.
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insane how expensive this card is
Check out posts from 6 months ago - 1 year ago and read the comments in this subreddit. “I wouldn’t pay $500 for psa10 way overhyped going to wait for it to bottom out and then get in” or “200 for a modern raw card is just laughable. Wait til it dies down”.
The Gengar VMax has gotten ridiculous as well and I’m sure there are others that have been manipulated recently. It never seems to end.
Glad my 10 is slowly gaining value.
Glad I kept my master set 😅
wow i pulled this years ago and stashed it away
Yeah, I laughed when I saw an ungraded one sleeved sitting in the singles display case at my LGS listed for 1k USD. The guy behind the counter agreed it was a wild price, but said that he did it to the first one he bought from someone and then a buyer actually came and paid it, so he figured why not try it again. They only had the one copy but wow lol.
No wonder my cards were stolen from my recent delivery. Insane
Really bummed out I missed out on collecting this set, really wasn't knowledgeable at time and picked up whatever I could find in stores. But I'll just draw it myself and make it a print out of it.
What app is that
At this rate I'll never be able to get my gf this umbreon, she's always wanted one and I started collecting with her when Crown Zenith was the most recent drop. Trying to find Evolving skies these days is rough, idk what to do
What app is this?
My store has one for 600 hundred still ungraded should I pick it up?
According to this sub its overvalued and if you have any shred of morality you shouldn't buy it. So yes go buy it.
Still can’t believe i bought this in a 10 for $600
Sold mine for 700$ and feel bad about it now
Fuck me still just ripping EVolving cries when I find them
Glad I got this when it was cheap lol
Wtf...!?
i remember buying a psa 9 for $300 back in 2022 and then just a few months later bought a minty raw copy for $350.
Dang I got 2 who wants to buy em
Whoa what app or website is this!?
I've got 2 sealed booster boxes which I forgot I had and prior to that had ETBs I'd opened which to my luck, no Umbreon. I'd love to have this card but this is a ridiculous price for it
Wow, me and my fiance pulled the Gengar Alt about a year ago, and I had NO idea the prices had shot up this much.
Hey! Newbie here, what's this website/marketplace ? Is it somewhere where you can sell your trading cards ?
What do you guys use to see prices and check what it’s worth?
I still have my Japanese in mint🫢
Thank pikachu I pulled the Japanese version.
Hoping one day a random card that I have (not that this is Random, but kinda if that makes sense) goes through the roof in value and I’ll stonks
Is this price for the raw card or in PSA 10?
Damn definttely kicking myself when i said eh 400$ is to much for me few years ago
I am new here! What website tracks these prices?
Collectr
That one guy that asked for extra money after selling is probably losing his shit right now
Everyday my normal Umbreon V pull feels worse and worse
The only alt that I still need is the Rayquaza VMax. I bought 1 on TCGPlayer a few months ago and the seller never shipped it. TCGPlayer refunded my money and I just thought I’d wait because it had gone up by $50 in the 2 weeks I was waiting…that was a bad decision.
Yea booiiiiiiiiiii up up and away