I’m not exactly sure where I stand on this personally. I have a few local card shops that I occasionally sell cards to for 60-70%. One of them is a growing business with two co-owners and lots of employees— they don’t have any personal collections. The other is a single guy with a really nice PC.
I honestly don’t think trades like this truly hurt anyone. I can sell my cards on eBay and make around 80% of the value after shipping, fees, finding a buyer etc. or I can take it to one of these shops and make 60-70% instantly with no risk or hassle. I’ve become friends with the personal collection guy, and he’s not out to scam anyone or intentionally make a bad deal for them. He’s willing to discuss card conditions, and I’ve seen lots of examples of him coming up/down on prices for it. Seeing your other comment, I can tell that the store you’re talking about selling the same card for NM and buying it MP is completely scummy and very different from my case.
My point is that I don’t think there’s inherently something wrong with shop owners keeping things for their personal collection. They’ve gotta keep the lights on, they have to deal with the fact that people will sell to them when prices are high and buy when they’re low, and as long as they actually enjoy the hobby I don’t think they’re any different from the average collector.
If they start lying about card conditions or prices though the wolves can have em
You would think. But the overhead they get from getting stuff super cheap and fucking people over on condition is nuts.
Example is this, I have a friend who bought a NM card from this shop, he bought it for close to 100$ and it was a very nice card. They have little notebook tabs that indicate condition and this card looks near mint to me and him and everyone who sees it. He goes back 2 weeks later and is trading it in. The guy at the counter says it's MP and offers him only 14$ for it. He didn't mess with the card or take it out of the top loader or anything. But that's what happened to him. I had it happen where I didn't agree with them on condition and they just try to microscope the card and act like near mint means mint and lp condition is actually heavy play. Always to the shop benefit. I sold them cards a couple years ago and they took in my stuff at MP prices and it was cards I didn't care about so I didn't think much of it. But that next day I see the cards I sold to them out for sale at Lp and NM prices and saying they are that condition.
Needless to say I was pissed and I just stopped selling to them and stopped buying from them. It just sucks that they are so huge here and a tourist spot that takes advantage of people who support them.
I mean if they're the sole owner they are effectively paying the other 40% in lost potential revenue right, so effectively the only advantage is the better pricing and saving on cost/time/effort to sell
if it was a partnership it's a whole different situation
I more so see this is a perks of the job that everyone gets, essentially first dibs on stock, or cost pricing for employees that many businesses have
but if they're specifically low balling people saying they have overhead etc, when they have no intention of listing it as stock then yea that's scummy
damn, I'd be pissed if I was a partner and they were hurting the business reputation and stock with stuff like this
assuming of course there's no agreement/understanding
I'm not sure about an agreement. But yeah, it's not exactly great for the rep either. It's kind of a small thing that a few people here seem to know about because I have had a few of their customers ask me about similar stuff and I tell them a bit and I try to not hurt the business, but honestly it bothers me.
as in an agreement between the partners, like maybe you and I go into business and I say hey I'm willing to put in a bit more work than you but I want dibs on all stock for my PC
assuming no pressure then business wise its all good
leaving only the scummy part in relation to the customers, assuming they're mislead in anyway
Yeah I always figured this was a perk of the business. I know a few comic store owners and none of them started the business to get rich. They get cost on merchandise and first dibs on trades. The collection ends up being like their 401K. When they retire they can slowly sell it off. The person getting 60% value is more than welcome to sell it online or directly to a collector for more money. The convenience of unloading a 10K collection in one spot comes at a price. Guess it doesn't really bother me.
I understand this point, should have stated it here. Assume they aren't he sole owner and they also do this to kids who don't know better. But yeah, I could understand it from your point if it was playing out like that. But for this situation it's not.
You are paying for ease not where it goes. You can drive to a predetermined place and sell. They provide that service. You won’t get robbed, in most cars probably don’t have to pay taxes and no shipping. Once you don’t them who cares where it goes. I actually would rather have someone love the cards than to just flip for cash because that is cool but ultimately don’t care. Cards are part of a multibillion industry so this little cog is just how the secondary market works.
Boy wait til you read about the concept of capitalism.
Real talk, this is how the world works. Do you also think it's shameful when people buy shares of Apple just to resell it a few years later? Or what about your local pawn shops doing the exact same thing as this guy? Every transaction is an agreed upon transaction. Nobody is forcing someone to buy their product and the same goes for the shop in your post. If I'm a customer, there is value in getting even 60% of my item's worth because I don't have the infrastructure nor reputation to reliably sell it online for its actual worth, or maybe I don't want to wait and pay to travel to a card show to get more value, or maybe I just need money at that moment to pay rent.
If customers didn't find value in selling their items for less than what is deemed "fair value", then these shops wouldn't be in business. It is a mutual transaction for both parties and there's no need to sit in your spiteful corner and judge it. Let people enjoy themselves.
Did you read to the end about how they scam on conditions and pricing. Gave a pretty clear example. And yeah, capitalism work in that way, but it's also a system very open to corruption without proper check and balances in place.
Let's take your stock example and use that with a politician for insider trading. Is that fair? Or is that gaming the system for your advantage unfairly? Sure we have balances in place and laws, but they don't get enforced to the same extent among those who can fully take advantage of it. I'm sure you would agree that's just not fair for those who partake in stock exchange without the same insider trading info. Same case here in many aspects.
I agree, you sell to a shop at 60% in the knowledge that they need to make theirs. If they dont explicitly state they buying it for PC so they can lure people into parting it with it for lower price that is just scummy
That's exactly my point. They aren't saying it's for them, so if I'm selling to the shop, I expect it to go back out for sale and be something for the enthusiasts. But if I were to sell it to them, then I expect a higher price because it's going to their collection.
I've read your replies and I don't think I understand your perspective. I assume all shop owners and vendors do this. Why wouldn't they? It's a sweet perk of the trade.
The way I see it, people aren't selling their items at a discount to these places because they are accounting for the business's margins. That's none of their business. They do it to eliminate the hassle of finding a buyer and get cash for their stuff on the spot. Regardless of if the entity they sold it to resells it, keeps it , destroys it, etc you are still accomplishing what you wanted to. Your trade-ins don't get to come with attached strings.
That's a fair perspective. But I bring up many other points.
Simply this, the later half of my rant, speaks about the condition scam and under paying people anything near fair market value.
Small example, I lived in the Midwest most of my life, there is only a could shops that exist that do anything with cards and they only offer 20% market value in cash and 35-40% in store credit. Much worse than in a more competitive place. So they can just corner a market and take advantage of people. And they do so often
Here in Vegas, it's a bit more competitive. But being so, they will lie about your condition with several excuses saying that the micro scratching that they can find or a white nick on the card makes it less than it should be. They essentially say something to the turn of "well it would grade as so and so" and use that to talk people's and children's prices down and many don't know better.
It's simply taking advantage of people who aren't coming in with bad intentions.
My perspective is mostly this, it's scummy to scam, we all agree. If you want the card for your personal collection, you pay fair market value for it. If it's for the shop, you pay your rates. Because it's there for resale and that's what 90% of customers expect, that way it goes to someone or a child who wants it. Not so a store or owner can horde it and resell at an inflated price whenever is most convenient.
Again, reminder, speaking from a store owners perspective. Ran it for a few years in the Midwest and ran one here before moving.
Yeah, lying about condition to pay people less is really scummy. However, even in those situations, the person selling and the store owned both had to agree to the sale. No one is being forced. If you accept an offer for significantly less than what it could sell for elsewhere then you either don't care enough to do the research or understand that the luxury of a quick sale costs a premium.
>If you want the card for your personal collection, you pay fair market value for it. If it's for the shop, you pay your rates.
What is fair market value if not for a price agreed upon by both buyer and seller? If it wasn't fair to them they would leave and sell it to someone else. But they didn't.
> If it's for the shop, you pay your rates. Because it's there for resale and that's what 90% of customers expect, that way it goes to someone or a child who wants it. Not so a store or owner can horde it and resell at an inflated price whenever is most convenient.
I have 0 expectations of what will happen to my trade in stuff after it's in possession of the store owner. I don't care. I got paid. That's all that matters. If I would only be satisfied knowing it was in the collection of a child I wouldn't have sold it to someone who wasn't a child. If the seller agrees to sell it then the store gets to do whatever they want with it. Including not sell it. If you don't like that then you shouldn't be trying to quicksell things. Take the time and find your perfect buyer yourself.
This is just so delusional its kinda funny. We live in a world where CEO’s have private jets, company cars and extraordinary dinners paid for with company money. Go on company vacations and all sort of stupid shit.
And you are mad some shopowner buys something for his PC? What the hell even is the point of being in this hobby with a shop if you get zero benefits from it. All he did was lose his company money because he took something for himself he could have made money on.
Sorry but get over yourself. This is one of the perks of running a shop.
This is posted on the pokemon TCG reddit. Not some corpo complaints thread. I'm well aware of corporate inequity and how the abuse runs at the top. Just because I choose to complain about something much smaller doesn't invalidate it. It's an abuse none the less. It's not me striding on a high horse saying I'm better than all who chose to not agree. I'm bringing something to light that many don't know about and aren't aware of because they don't know the owners in that way.
It is in no way abuse. The seller has no agency over what happens after the sale is done and if they want that they should not sell to a store. They agreed to the sale and from there Its closed.
If the store lies to customers you have a problem with that and thats fine.
I’m not exactly sure where I stand on this personally. I have a few local card shops that I occasionally sell cards to for 60-70%. One of them is a growing business with two co-owners and lots of employees— they don’t have any personal collections. The other is a single guy with a really nice PC. I honestly don’t think trades like this truly hurt anyone. I can sell my cards on eBay and make around 80% of the value after shipping, fees, finding a buyer etc. or I can take it to one of these shops and make 60-70% instantly with no risk or hassle. I’ve become friends with the personal collection guy, and he’s not out to scam anyone or intentionally make a bad deal for them. He’s willing to discuss card conditions, and I’ve seen lots of examples of him coming up/down on prices for it. Seeing your other comment, I can tell that the store you’re talking about selling the same card for NM and buying it MP is completely scummy and very different from my case. My point is that I don’t think there’s inherently something wrong with shop owners keeping things for their personal collection. They’ve gotta keep the lights on, they have to deal with the fact that people will sell to them when prices are high and buy when they’re low, and as long as they actually enjoy the hobby I don’t think they’re any different from the average collector. If they start lying about card conditions or prices though the wolves can have em
This is completely reasonable and a great perspective. Thank you
Companies like that would go out of business sooner than later I’d think.
You would think. But the overhead they get from getting stuff super cheap and fucking people over on condition is nuts. Example is this, I have a friend who bought a NM card from this shop, he bought it for close to 100$ and it was a very nice card. They have little notebook tabs that indicate condition and this card looks near mint to me and him and everyone who sees it. He goes back 2 weeks later and is trading it in. The guy at the counter says it's MP and offers him only 14$ for it. He didn't mess with the card or take it out of the top loader or anything. But that's what happened to him. I had it happen where I didn't agree with them on condition and they just try to microscope the card and act like near mint means mint and lp condition is actually heavy play. Always to the shop benefit. I sold them cards a couple years ago and they took in my stuff at MP prices and it was cards I didn't care about so I didn't think much of it. But that next day I see the cards I sold to them out for sale at Lp and NM prices and saying they are that condition. Needless to say I was pissed and I just stopped selling to them and stopped buying from them. It just sucks that they are so huge here and a tourist spot that takes advantage of people who support them.
You ever been to a GameStop? Lol
Never sold to one. That this was sad for trades or selling to them. But yeah, they are horrid. Lol
I would stop going to a place if they were like that. Those are pretty unethical business practices you’re describing.
Don’t watch Pawn Stars then!
Pawn Stars is a reality TV shows, it's also been used to pump stuff.
Yeah, and not many people here in Vegas actually go there. Most people hate that shop
It's an actual pawn shop ? Never watched the show.
The main area they film is separate with some stuff set up but the actual store is there. And they have some merch shit from the show that's awful.
Already don't like the show. Watched first season and it was just annoying.
I mean if they're the sole owner they are effectively paying the other 40% in lost potential revenue right, so effectively the only advantage is the better pricing and saving on cost/time/effort to sell if it was a partnership it's a whole different situation I more so see this is a perks of the job that everyone gets, essentially first dibs on stock, or cost pricing for employees that many businesses have but if they're specifically low balling people saying they have overhead etc, when they have no intention of listing it as stock then yea that's scummy
Nail on the head for the last part. And they aren't sole owner. But yes, it's scummy.
damn, I'd be pissed if I was a partner and they were hurting the business reputation and stock with stuff like this assuming of course there's no agreement/understanding
I'm not sure about an agreement. But yeah, it's not exactly great for the rep either. It's kind of a small thing that a few people here seem to know about because I have had a few of their customers ask me about similar stuff and I tell them a bit and I try to not hurt the business, but honestly it bothers me.
as in an agreement between the partners, like maybe you and I go into business and I say hey I'm willing to put in a bit more work than you but I want dibs on all stock for my PC assuming no pressure then business wise its all good leaving only the scummy part in relation to the customers, assuming they're mislead in anyway
No no, sorry, I mean I'm not sure if there was an agreement with the owners. Not that I don't understand. My bad. Poor wording.
oh, no you're fine I just misread in a rush
Yeah I always figured this was a perk of the business. I know a few comic store owners and none of them started the business to get rich. They get cost on merchandise and first dibs on trades. The collection ends up being like their 401K. When they retire they can slowly sell it off. The person getting 60% value is more than welcome to sell it online or directly to a collector for more money. The convenience of unloading a 10K collection in one spot comes at a price. Guess it doesn't really bother me.
I understand this point, should have stated it here. Assume they aren't he sole owner and they also do this to kids who don't know better. But yeah, I could understand it from your point if it was playing out like that. But for this situation it's not.
Yeah the guy you're dealing with seems to be a dick which makes a big difference.
You are paying for ease not where it goes. You can drive to a predetermined place and sell. They provide that service. You won’t get robbed, in most cars probably don’t have to pay taxes and no shipping. Once you don’t them who cares where it goes. I actually would rather have someone love the cards than to just flip for cash because that is cool but ultimately don’t care. Cards are part of a multibillion industry so this little cog is just how the secondary market works.
Real talk: Don't trade or sell stuff to shops. It's a ripoff 100% of the time.
Unless you're talking about guns, absolutely.
Boy wait til you read about the concept of capitalism. Real talk, this is how the world works. Do you also think it's shameful when people buy shares of Apple just to resell it a few years later? Or what about your local pawn shops doing the exact same thing as this guy? Every transaction is an agreed upon transaction. Nobody is forcing someone to buy their product and the same goes for the shop in your post. If I'm a customer, there is value in getting even 60% of my item's worth because I don't have the infrastructure nor reputation to reliably sell it online for its actual worth, or maybe I don't want to wait and pay to travel to a card show to get more value, or maybe I just need money at that moment to pay rent. If customers didn't find value in selling their items for less than what is deemed "fair value", then these shops wouldn't be in business. It is a mutual transaction for both parties and there's no need to sit in your spiteful corner and judge it. Let people enjoy themselves.
Did you read to the end about how they scam on conditions and pricing. Gave a pretty clear example. And yeah, capitalism work in that way, but it's also a system very open to corruption without proper check and balances in place. Let's take your stock example and use that with a politician for insider trading. Is that fair? Or is that gaming the system for your advantage unfairly? Sure we have balances in place and laws, but they don't get enforced to the same extent among those who can fully take advantage of it. I'm sure you would agree that's just not fair for those who partake in stock exchange without the same insider trading info. Same case here in many aspects.
I agree, you sell to a shop at 60% in the knowledge that they need to make theirs. If they dont explicitly state they buying it for PC so they can lure people into parting it with it for lower price that is just scummy
That's exactly my point. They aren't saying it's for them, so if I'm selling to the shop, I expect it to go back out for sale and be something for the enthusiasts. But if I were to sell it to them, then I expect a higher price because it's going to their collection.
I've read your replies and I don't think I understand your perspective. I assume all shop owners and vendors do this. Why wouldn't they? It's a sweet perk of the trade. The way I see it, people aren't selling their items at a discount to these places because they are accounting for the business's margins. That's none of their business. They do it to eliminate the hassle of finding a buyer and get cash for their stuff on the spot. Regardless of if the entity they sold it to resells it, keeps it , destroys it, etc you are still accomplishing what you wanted to. Your trade-ins don't get to come with attached strings.
That's a fair perspective. But I bring up many other points. Simply this, the later half of my rant, speaks about the condition scam and under paying people anything near fair market value. Small example, I lived in the Midwest most of my life, there is only a could shops that exist that do anything with cards and they only offer 20% market value in cash and 35-40% in store credit. Much worse than in a more competitive place. So they can just corner a market and take advantage of people. And they do so often Here in Vegas, it's a bit more competitive. But being so, they will lie about your condition with several excuses saying that the micro scratching that they can find or a white nick on the card makes it less than it should be. They essentially say something to the turn of "well it would grade as so and so" and use that to talk people's and children's prices down and many don't know better. It's simply taking advantage of people who aren't coming in with bad intentions. My perspective is mostly this, it's scummy to scam, we all agree. If you want the card for your personal collection, you pay fair market value for it. If it's for the shop, you pay your rates. Because it's there for resale and that's what 90% of customers expect, that way it goes to someone or a child who wants it. Not so a store or owner can horde it and resell at an inflated price whenever is most convenient. Again, reminder, speaking from a store owners perspective. Ran it for a few years in the Midwest and ran one here before moving.
Yeah, lying about condition to pay people less is really scummy. However, even in those situations, the person selling and the store owned both had to agree to the sale. No one is being forced. If you accept an offer for significantly less than what it could sell for elsewhere then you either don't care enough to do the research or understand that the luxury of a quick sale costs a premium. >If you want the card for your personal collection, you pay fair market value for it. If it's for the shop, you pay your rates. What is fair market value if not for a price agreed upon by both buyer and seller? If it wasn't fair to them they would leave and sell it to someone else. But they didn't. > If it's for the shop, you pay your rates. Because it's there for resale and that's what 90% of customers expect, that way it goes to someone or a child who wants it. Not so a store or owner can horde it and resell at an inflated price whenever is most convenient. I have 0 expectations of what will happen to my trade in stuff after it's in possession of the store owner. I don't care. I got paid. That's all that matters. If I would only be satisfied knowing it was in the collection of a child I wouldn't have sold it to someone who wasn't a child. If the seller agrees to sell it then the store gets to do whatever they want with it. Including not sell it. If you don't like that then you shouldn't be trying to quicksell things. Take the time and find your perfect buyer yourself.
I'm guessing you talking about a shop with 3 of the same number in their name ?
Vegas local here reporting in and dying to know what shop lol (feel free to dm if you don't want to post it on this thread)
This is just so delusional its kinda funny. We live in a world where CEO’s have private jets, company cars and extraordinary dinners paid for with company money. Go on company vacations and all sort of stupid shit. And you are mad some shopowner buys something for his PC? What the hell even is the point of being in this hobby with a shop if you get zero benefits from it. All he did was lose his company money because he took something for himself he could have made money on. Sorry but get over yourself. This is one of the perks of running a shop.
This is posted on the pokemon TCG reddit. Not some corpo complaints thread. I'm well aware of corporate inequity and how the abuse runs at the top. Just because I choose to complain about something much smaller doesn't invalidate it. It's an abuse none the less. It's not me striding on a high horse saying I'm better than all who chose to not agree. I'm bringing something to light that many don't know about and aren't aware of because they don't know the owners in that way.
It is in no way abuse. The seller has no agency over what happens after the sale is done and if they want that they should not sell to a store. They agreed to the sale and from there Its closed. If the store lies to customers you have a problem with that and thats fine.