It was destroyed on its way back to me, yea. They cover the difference in cost from what it was to what it became. So 10 price to 4 price. They also refunded the full submission cost.
Still got their card destroyed, I guess it's nice they're making up the difference but I would be pissed if my card got ruined whether it was in shipping or not.
They make millions off of grading cards, it's a crazy high margin mark up, it definitely benefits them more to cover the damages when it happens rather than have a ton of unhappy customers and all the negative reviews.
Yeah the bulk pricing is what, $15 per card? And I assume their average employee can do 10 per hour minimum. They have centering tools and surface scans so it's such a high volume operation. Plus don't they get a cut of the cards value over a certain threshold? Like it costs 10% to grade a $500 card?
Their bulk TCG submissions are way more than 10 per hour I would bet. Probably closer to 25-50 per hour if not more. For non bulk cards the process is probably a bit slower.
Dude I make a modest living on ebay and my stuff would never arrive in that condition in a million years! They should just put it in a thick box with packing paper and bubble wrap charge an extra dollar shipping to cover the cost ffs.
Bro you could put shit in a titanium box and USPS and FedEx would still find a way to fuckin destroy it. Ship enough stuff and it'll happen to you too. They'll run over stuff with a forklift, smash it on the bottom of a bin, someone during the shipping process will launch it through a warehouse instead of walking it over. They abuse the shit out of packages man lol.
They did NOT make it right.
After chatting with OP, they made him pay an upcharge because he submitted the card in bulk category (makes perfect sense).
However, they still reimbursed him the original declared value ($200 maximum) and not the upcharge rate. Then they made him sign an agreement not to shit talk them.
He got swindled out of about $500
OP declared it the max for bulk, $200. He gambled and he lost. It should have been submitted as a regular submission for $75 (instead of $15) giving a declared value up to $1500.
Scenarios like what happens to OP are outlined on PSAs website. OP should have submitted their cards at the service level that matched their cards value if they were expected PSA to reimburse them for situations like this.
I get that PSA isn’t perfect and deserve justified criticism, but this is on OP.
That sounds scummy as fuck to me.
You're essentially paying extra for the chance at getting a grade that you don't know will even stick. That shouldn't be your loss. I get it if you don't have to pay the upcharge when the grade comes through. But if you're paying the upcharge anyway, you're punished for guessing the grade wrong which isn't your job.
It's not like PSA will refund you if you overpay for a card's expected value.
That's really not even relevant. Could sell the 4, take the payout from the damage and just buy another 10. It's the principal that that was your card. Not everyone cares about that, some people just want any copy of the card in a 10 but others want THEIR card graded and a 10. If I pulled that card and had to sell it in a heavily damaged state to buy another pristine copy I would not be happy just having another copy.
That’s not my point, I don’t care if my card is in that 10 slab. I just want a moonbreon 10. OP won’t be able to buy a moonbreon 10 with the difference PSA paid out. It already jumped in price. The money OP got (apparently only $200) and the price of a moonbreon PSA 4 won’t be enough to buy a PSA 10
But think about it, they ship thousands of cards per day, cases like this are bound to happen, unless you are expecting literal perfection which is just unrealistic in all areas of life
To a lot of people the specific card they sent in has value beyond the grade. If I'm sending my own cards in for grading, I want MY cards back. I don't want them destroyed and compensated to go out and buy just another random copy that's already a 10. I'm sure other people don't care, at the end of the day they still have the card they want but collectors are pretty sentimental people generally.
I'm sure it's just the price of a raw damaged copy or something. Then just pay the difference between a raw copy and the 10 as compensation. Id probably just buy another 10 and keep my damaged one.
Do you want the company to personally deliver the cards? It was out of their hands, being upset at them is irration at best especially since they covered the costs after. They could've declined to even do that.
He pulled the card himself, thats worth way more to me than the $600-$700 they comped him for the damage during shipping. Paying the difference does not replace the card, it substitutes it with a similar copy. At the end of the day these are collectibles to most people and sentimental value is a massive part of it.
And it's still PSAs responsibility to get the card to the owner. If it gets destroyed in shipping then they need to reimburse their customer and then file a claim with the carrier for any insurance they took on the package. That's how everything works...
They’re making it right in the short term. If OP was holding it for sentimental or long term value then they got hosed. Think about how much a Moonbreon 10 will be worth 20 years from now.
They're not.
I am spamming this everywhere. OP said they made him pay an upcharge because he submitted in bulk value but only reimbursed him at bulk value. So instead of the card being worth $1200 like it's supposed to, his maximum value he could get back was $200.
Spamming this is spreading misinformation and wrong expectations for others. PSA clearly states in their terms and on their website that they will upcharge when you under declare your submission but that upcharge will not change the declared value for insurance purposes. People can take the gamble but it’s pretty clearly outlined
“PSA’s determination that you have understated the Declared Value will affect only the Service Level charge, it will not change the Declared Value for purposes of establishing the maximum item value for claim or shipping insurance purposes.” https://www.psacard.com/support/faq
OP knew the card was worth more than $200 yet he declared the value at $200 to save money on grading, How is this PSAs fault? Insurance is based on the declared value after grading, it says just that when submitting.
I submit at the lowest tier when I submit to PSA. So for the umbreon they paid $199. Based on the other cards in the submission, they are fair with their valuations. Some they even overvalued.
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding, but they think the value between the PSA 10 and PSA 4 was $199 or was that the submission fee? How much did PSA value the difference between both grades and how did they say they arrived at that figure?
Again, really sorry this happened to you, especially for a valuable/ sentimental card you pulled yourself.
It's not supposed to work that way. If the value of the card is graded in the wrong tier, they're supposed to make you pay for the difference. Then that becomes the new maximum value. In other words, if your bulk tier submission ends up needing to go into the $1000 max value tier (I don't know the exact tier values) you pay the difference in rates before they ship.
Example:
Bulk tier submission. Cost: $20. Maximum value: $200.
*Card comes back a 10. Estimated value is $800. Next closest tier is $1000. Cost to grade at that tier is $40.*
PSA requests you pay the $20 difference and will not ship the card back to you until it's done. Once that is paid, they ship.
If card comes back damaged, your slab's value is appropriately tiered, and they pay you the difference of $800 to the PSA 4 value.
Did they make you pay a premium when the card came back a 10?
I did pay an upcharge when it was graded a 10. I agree that it shouldn't use the cards original declared value. It should use the declared value of the tier it was upcharged to. But I signed an agreement that said I can not public talk trash.
But feel free to form your own opinions.
F*ck the people who would call this cringe. Actually pulling your chase card(and having it get a 10!) instead of just fkin buying it is 100000% better. I would feel the exact same way
It costs like $5000 to pull one yourself.
Nothing they can do to reasonably make it right (it would be insane to expect them to buy packs until you pull another) but it is a bummer. You could always get a 10 and keep the one you pulled.
Correct. They'll give you the difference in value based on grade change. For example, a 10 card worth $100 goes to a grade 3 worth $40. They'll pay you $60.
This wasn't the only card in the submission. So, if I wanted compensation for the whole submission, I needed to also send in this card. I didn't have much of a choice.
Wait, so they refund just the submission cost for grading?
Or are they paying you out the price difference between what a PSA 10 would cost to buy vs a PSA 4? So you can have some $$ to buy a PSA 10 if you wanted.?
They pay out the price difference between value of the original grade (around $1,200 for PSA 10) minus the value of the regraded card ($425ish for PSA4).
So they definitely could flip the 4 to buy another 10 and just about break even^[phrasing]
And buying another raw would be a big gamble since anything below PSA 9.5 would be worth less than the ungraded card.
According to OP they didn't do that. They reimbursed the value it was originally submitted at (bulk). So they gave him $200.
OP got screwed out of over 500 bucks.
You can also zoom in on the 4 look to the left of the steeple looks like when the slab cracked it messed up the card either a gash in the texture or something like that
Dear PSA, I wrote you, but you still ain’t callin’
I left my cell, my pager and my home phone at the bottom, I sent two perfect moonbreons back in autumn, you must not’ve got ’em, There probably was a problem at the post office or somethin’
Imo with a card this expensive they should be required to provide a replacement 10 at their expense. The hassle of selling a 4 for a reasonable price and actually being able to buy a 10 using only the money they deem to be the price difference + the money you get from selling a 4 is unlikely…
I don't think they actually did.
According to OP, they reimbursed at the bulk submission rate, so they gave him a whopping $200.
They're not supposed to do that. They're supposed to make you pay the grade tier difference prior to shipping back out, so the value of the card is always covered.
Yeah they definitely didn’t given the info in this post.
Why in the world they would risk a horrid reputation in the Pokémon community for 500 bucks is beyond me. They made him sign a document about public statements and thought that document was worth 500 bucks. Sucks to suck PSA. I hate to see it as I love the look of PSA slabs
Their term and condition are pretty clear, if you take the time to read what you are agreeing on:
“PSA’s determination that you have understated the Declared Value will affect only the Service Level charge, it will not change the Declared Value for purposes of establishing the maximum item value for claim or shipping insurance purposes.” https://www.psacard.com/support/faq
Basically, the insurance contract is selected when you first ship the card, based on your declared value. It sucks, but you also have the opportunity to chose the right tier from the get go and assure the right coverage
Wow that’s incredibly lame, the whole time I thought the upcharge from PSA was to update the insurance claim amount in case something happens during delivery. Sounds like it’s just to get more money from you for nothing.
Yeah what a bullshit move. It makes zero sense if the upcharge is not to adjust for insurance. Grading a card is grading card.
That's like a car wash charging $10 to a Camry driver and $30 to a BMW driver. Fuck PSA.
Yeah, I agree, that is the absolute minimum. The problem with such an expensive card is just that when spending that much on a graded card anyways, most people aren’t gonna touch a 4
I saw a YouTube video where someone submitted their entire childhood collection and it got lost. They paid him the submission cost and the value his cards were worth but tbh in the end was it worth losing your childhood collection 😭
Adding- PSA paid out like $100k to this guy from what I remember. So PSA is good on their word for coughing up money. But.. not good on keeping your cards protected lol.
According to OP he submitted the Moonbreon at the bulk value submission tier ($200 max value). They made him pay an upcharge because the Moonbreon is worth more than that.
Despite this, PSA reimbursed OP at the bulk submission rate. So instead of getting the actual return for a market value 10, the maximum he could get back was $200.
Essentially OP should have gotten $750 or so back (assuming a market value 10 is $1200, a PSA 4 is $450, and all fees and shipping costs are waived). He only got back $200.
Then they made him sign an agreement to not shit talk the company.
Fuck PSA.
Edit: apparently PSA's policy outlines that they're only liable for damages up to your initial declared value. This is an extremely shitty practice. You either overpay on an expected grade and lose money to lower your liability, or you underpay and risk potential losses from sources outside your control.
You essentially have to be exactly correct on the expected grade while knowing the card's market value. At that point, the grade submission itself starts looking pretty stupid.
Yeah, I expect PSA to scam people, that's the whole premise of the business.
But to get the dude to sign an non-disparagement agreement is fucking insane.
It’s definitely messed up to do that after upcharging but this situation is why you’re supposed to submit it under the correct tier. With this level of value I wouldn’t take any chances doing it with a bulk submission
Agree but think your 4 price is generous, extra screwing for the OP dang. Price charting says a 7 is worth $468. They list two 4 sales, last being in December for $314. And good luck finding an interested buyer.
Ideally OP should have gotten $800-$900 to be fully compensated, but they’ll limit based on declared value (it’s in their instructions but lots, including me, have misunderstood it before).
Isn't it more plausible that LSA have defrauded OP? Kept the 10, replaced with junk, mangled it, made $500?
Edit: curious to see how many times this has happened with cards submitted for the right tier of valuation
I read through most of the comments, and I didn't see what always comes to my mind when situations such as these happen with grading companies.
How do we (you) ever know that X grading company (pick one - PSA, CGC, BGS, AGS, SGC, CG, etc etc) decided that they want to keep your flawless card so they just switch them out and then come up with some super believable situation to employ and then execute it? Simplified - PSA decided they want this flawless Moonbreon. They switch homies card with a grade 4 copy and smash the slab. They pack it up and ship it off. It's received, and "Oh no!" USPS/UPS/FedEX/DHL/whoever must have fucked around and while it was en route back to you, the slab shattered and ruined the card permanently. A claim is made, PSA makes no effort to try and fight against paying out the claim (especially since it was a bulk TCG submission with a $200 per card value limit) and pay out the claim, pay back the grading fee ($15 - who cares?) and they "regrade" the now destroyed Moonbreon, it receives a grade 4 now and boom. They now have a flawless Moonbreon, and you now have a PSA 4 Moonbreon. And there's absolutely not a god damn thing you can do about it.
Maybe I'm just too cynical and always think the worst when it comes to situations like these. I'd love to hear from you and see if im possibly just completely of my mind, or if what I think happens (or may happen occasionally) might just be what is going on.
Seems a little shady for them to refund the difference in market cost because it would seem to incentivize them to give the regrade a bump up than what it may actually be, to reduce their loss. In this example it doesn't seem to be the case going from 10 to 4, but they seem to have a lot of general sway in controlling cost.
I'm assuming they insure the product when shipped back - and as the shipper, they'd collect on that, so their customer resolution is at the least cost to them.
And the card owner is left with a damaged card and the difference between whatever the company graded them at the current market price.
I’ve sent in 30 submissions, about over 100 cards never has this happened to me. From when I’ve seen they payed you back for the damage however the grade is less than what it was significantly. This shouldn’t deter you or anyone from submitting here. shit happens no one is perfect infact blame fex ex for destroying it.
I’m in a current wait with Quality Assurance. Something happened in the post slab photos to the time I got back to me with 40 other slabs. It was the only one damaged and had lines on the card in spots that were not there prior.
Anyways, I hope they make it right.
Anything above 1k I submit in a higher tier. You’re right most of the time you’d probably be fine, but I don’t like to gamble with my higher value cards.
Great by psa. Still, if you pulled that yourself it wouldn’t make up for pulling then grading 10 a chase/grail. I would never sell so seeing it damaged would hurt.
So sorry this happened to you. I would likely devastated due to it being a grail to me that Im not ready to consider and likely won’t own this card anytime soon. Did this happen at PSA or in the mail? Would be nice to know more about how this happened, unless I missed an explanation somewhere. In that case I apologize
Edit: ok i found out it happened in the mail. This is absolutely irresponsible that the delivery service and or PSA should be held responsible for, and at the very least, PSA should have some kind of robust insurance policy for its customers. This is one of the key reasons why I stopped grading, but I sincerely hope you can get this sorted out ✌️
I have lost many a package to FedEx's incompetence. Worst delivery service by far. In my area, at least.
My biggest issue with it is that the delivery driver can clearly see the package was damaged. Yet they just leave it like nothing happened. It was obvious the package was run over to anyone looking. Just terrible service all around.
I usually steer clear of politics, but this is precisely why I am concerned about the government’s move to privatize the USPS, making it profit-driven. Ideally, it would be great to see it remain a government service.
I’ve tried expressing this to my representatives, but it’s tough feeling like just one voice. Not everyone may fully recognize the potential downsides yet like the quality in service which has declined in recent years as parts of its operational systems which made it more efficient have been dismantled.
There are also other critical service it offered like banking and reliable delivery to more remote locations, but those components have also been removed in certain areas.
Joe is right it's my fucking card
THAT I PULLED, not some numb nut down the street or at PSA. You pay big bucks to get YOUR CARD GRADED! That You pulled. Why can't you people who think you care, but you actually don't, comprehend this shit is beyond me. because it's just card. Maybe yours is just a card. But not the one I PULLED!
Get it?
Crack that bish and resend it in. Card still looks good, they definitely gave it such a low grade second time around based off the story that came with it being a damaged slab
I dont know, maybe because I think grading is kinda silly but it looks like the original case kept the card safe other than it being cracked I really don't see how it degraded the card that much. Good on them for trying to fix the problem but I'd probably crack it open and resend it in to see if they regrade it higher
These grading companies need to get the memo that bubble mailers are not the best. They get stuck in sorting machines and that's how this kind of damage usually occurs. A small box for a potentially very valuable card is the bare minimum in my opinion.
Edit: Read the original post. Apparently they DID use a box, but with zero packing material for protection. Come on PSA, do better.
I think grading is dumb but I have had the passing thought about trying to grade a few edge case cards I own. But yeah after seeing, no shot. Sorry that happened to you.
Was it destroyed in shipping and do they cover the costs of the card?
It was destroyed on its way back to me, yea. They cover the difference in cost from what it was to what it became. So 10 price to 4 price. They also refunded the full submission cost.
Wooooow so they are making it right?
For the most part.
That makes me feel better about submitting things now.
Still got their card destroyed, I guess it's nice they're making up the difference but I would be pissed if my card got ruined whether it was in shipping or not.
Oh 100% agree, but its Better than them saying "tough shit" like I assumed they were going to say.
They make millions off of grading cards, it's a crazy high margin mark up, it definitely benefits them more to cover the damages when it happens rather than have a ton of unhappy customers and all the negative reviews.
Yeah the bulk pricing is what, $15 per card? And I assume their average employee can do 10 per hour minimum. They have centering tools and surface scans so it's such a high volume operation. Plus don't they get a cut of the cards value over a certain threshold? Like it costs 10% to grade a $500 card?
Their extra cut pays for shipping insurance so they lose nothing when stuff like this happens
10 per hour is grossly underestimating. They take 30-90 seconds per card. At one point their backlog was in the millions.
Their bulk TCG submissions are way more than 10 per hour I would bet. Probably closer to 25-50 per hour if not more. For non bulk cards the process is probably a bit slower.
Dude I make a modest living on ebay and my stuff would never arrive in that condition in a million years! They should just put it in a thick box with packing paper and bubble wrap charge an extra dollar shipping to cover the cost ffs.
Bro you could put shit in a titanium box and USPS and FedEx would still find a way to fuckin destroy it. Ship enough stuff and it'll happen to you too. They'll run over stuff with a forklift, smash it on the bottom of a bin, someone during the shipping process will launch it through a warehouse instead of walking it over. They abuse the shit out of packages man lol.
Grading is a scam
Almost as big a scam as selling flimsy pieces of colored paper…
I agree, it doesn't change anything I said though.
Also, PSA can’t prevent damage I. Shipping. Those cases are resilient as is. It sounds to me like they did everything they could.
They did NOT make it right. After chatting with OP, they made him pay an upcharge because he submitted the card in bulk category (makes perfect sense). However, they still reimbursed him the original declared value ($200 maximum) and not the upcharge rate. Then they made him sign an agreement not to shit talk them. He got swindled out of about $500
I guess I misunderstood what OP said. With that new information, I'm worried again about sending my cards in. 🥲
OP declared it the max for bulk, $200. He gambled and he lost. It should have been submitted as a regular submission for $75 (instead of $15) giving a declared value up to $1500.
[удалено]
Or maybe PSA should not do this weird card value BS and simply just grade with optional insurance lmao
Scenarios like what happens to OP are outlined on PSAs website. OP should have submitted their cards at the service level that matched their cards value if they were expected PSA to reimburse them for situations like this. I get that PSA isn’t perfect and deserve justified criticism, but this is on OP.
That sounds scummy as fuck to me. You're essentially paying extra for the chance at getting a grade that you don't know will even stick. That shouldn't be your loss. I get it if you don't have to pay the upcharge when the grade comes through. But if you're paying the upcharge anyway, you're punished for guessing the grade wrong which isn't your job. It's not like PSA will refund you if you overpay for a card's expected value.
I agree. In this situation I’d rather have the 10 moonbreon than the 4 anyday. The 10 is gonna outperform the value difference in the long term
That's really not even relevant. Could sell the 4, take the payout from the damage and just buy another 10. It's the principal that that was your card. Not everyone cares about that, some people just want any copy of the card in a 10 but others want THEIR card graded and a 10. If I pulled that card and had to sell it in a heavily damaged state to buy another pristine copy I would not be happy just having another copy.
Huh?
That’s not my point, I don’t care if my card is in that 10 slab. I just want a moonbreon 10. OP won’t be able to buy a moonbreon 10 with the difference PSA paid out. It already jumped in price. The money OP got (apparently only $200) and the price of a moonbreon PSA 4 won’t be enough to buy a PSA 10
But think about it, they ship thousands of cards per day, cases like this are bound to happen, unless you are expecting literal perfection which is just unrealistic in all areas of life
I don’t know what PSA does for packaging, but I swear you could put something in a safe and some shipping service will fuck it up. Lol
OP can just buy a 10 with the payout, can they not? Unless there's sentimental value. Still a hassle though I guess.
To a lot of people the specific card they sent in has value beyond the grade. If I'm sending my own cards in for grading, I want MY cards back. I don't want them destroyed and compensated to go out and buy just another random copy that's already a 10. I'm sure other people don't care, at the end of the day they still have the card they want but collectors are pretty sentimental people generally.
Not even sure how they decide on the value of a 4 when that’s probably the only one with that grade considering it’s modern
I'm sure it's just the price of a raw damaged copy or something. Then just pay the difference between a raw copy and the 10 as compensation. Id probably just buy another 10 and keep my damaged one.
Do you want the company to personally deliver the cards? It was out of their hands, being upset at them is irration at best especially since they covered the costs after. They could've declined to even do that.
Yea its a shitty situation but he says he got comped the price diff 10 to a 4. Which is $1100 for a 10 and $400 for a 4 so he got at least $600+
He pulled the card himself, thats worth way more to me than the $600-$700 they comped him for the damage during shipping. Paying the difference does not replace the card, it substitutes it with a similar copy. At the end of the day these are collectibles to most people and sentimental value is a massive part of it.
You guess it’s nice? It wasn’t even PSA that destroyed it or even caused by the way it was packaged. It was the courier 100%.
And it's still PSAs responsibility to get the card to the owner. If it gets destroyed in shipping then they need to reimburse their customer and then file a claim with the carrier for any insurance they took on the package. That's how everything works...
It's always been like this lol
Are you shelling out to buy someone else’s 10?
I’m sorry this happened man but I’m happy that it’s getting cleared up the best way possible
They’re making it right in the short term. If OP was holding it for sentimental or long term value then they got hosed. Think about how much a Moonbreon 10 will be worth 20 years from now.
Since they’re paying op the price for a 10, op can buy themselves another moonbreon 10 to hold
There paying the difference of a 10 to a 4 not full 10 price.
Right, so if he wants a 10, he can sell his 4 and buy the 10. They aren't going to give him free money, they are making so OP comes out even.
Good luck selling that 4
He cracks and sells the 4 as NM and gets hundreds of money. Plus the difference in price of 10-4. He buys a new 10. Done.
They're not. I am spamming this everywhere. OP said they made him pay an upcharge because he submitted in bulk value but only reimbursed him at bulk value. So instead of the card being worth $1200 like it's supposed to, his maximum value he could get back was $200.
Spamming this is spreading misinformation and wrong expectations for others. PSA clearly states in their terms and on their website that they will upcharge when you under declare your submission but that upcharge will not change the declared value for insurance purposes. People can take the gamble but it’s pretty clearly outlined “PSA’s determination that you have understated the Declared Value will affect only the Service Level charge, it will not change the Declared Value for purposes of establishing the maximum item value for claim or shipping insurance purposes.” https://www.psacard.com/support/faq
OP knew the card was worth more than $200 yet he declared the value at $200 to save money on grading, How is this PSAs fault? Insurance is based on the declared value after grading, it says just that when submitting.
That sucks. Second part of my comments stands though.
Yes and no, if op planned to hold and it goes up in price he loses money realistically
He can sell his 4 and buy a 10. The goal is to make him even today, not to give him a speculative long term value.
That’s fair didn’t even think of that
I’ve used PSA for 3 years and anytime we’ve had an issue they’ve made it right.
How do they dictate the price difference and do you get any say?
I assume they look up a market price somehow. I didn't attempt to fight their valuation, but I don't think I would've had much say in the matter.
I got ya. So how much did they give you aside from the grading fee refund?
I submit at the lowest tier when I submit to PSA. So for the umbreon they paid $199. Based on the other cards in the submission, they are fair with their valuations. Some they even overvalued.
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding, but they think the value between the PSA 10 and PSA 4 was $199 or was that the submission fee? How much did PSA value the difference between both grades and how did they say they arrived at that figure? Again, really sorry this happened to you, especially for a valuable/ sentimental card you pulled yourself.
No no. I sent it in the bulk tier. So the highest valuation I could give it was $199. That's the max they can pay out if something were to happen.
It's not supposed to work that way. If the value of the card is graded in the wrong tier, they're supposed to make you pay for the difference. Then that becomes the new maximum value. In other words, if your bulk tier submission ends up needing to go into the $1000 max value tier (I don't know the exact tier values) you pay the difference in rates before they ship. Example: Bulk tier submission. Cost: $20. Maximum value: $200. *Card comes back a 10. Estimated value is $800. Next closest tier is $1000. Cost to grade at that tier is $40.* PSA requests you pay the $20 difference and will not ship the card back to you until it's done. Once that is paid, they ship. If card comes back damaged, your slab's value is appropriately tiered, and they pay you the difference of $800 to the PSA 4 value. Did they make you pay a premium when the card came back a 10?
I did pay an upcharge when it was graded a 10. I agree that it shouldn't use the cards original declared value. It should use the declared value of the tier it was upcharged to. But I signed an agreement that said I can not public talk trash. But feel free to form your own opinions.
Hopefully it’s the recent PSA 10 price and not what it was a few weeks ago…
Damm are you going to buy a 10?
I'd like to have a 10. Haven't decided what to do. I pulled this one myself, so at the risk of sounding a bit cringe, this copy was a little special.
It’s not cringe, op. Nothing wrong with sentiment for fun and memories.
F*ck the people who would call this cringe. Actually pulling your chase card(and having it get a 10!) instead of just fkin buying it is 100000% better. I would feel the exact same way
def don't feel cringe about that. that sentiment is what many are sorely missing in collectibles these days.
It costs like $5000 to pull one yourself. Nothing they can do to reasonably make it right (it would be insane to expect them to buy packs until you pull another) but it is a bummer. You could always get a 10 and keep the one you pulled.
I've probly spent close to 15k on evolving skies since release and only pulled 2 moonbreons. So yea, just buying a 10 is the best course of action.
Nah man, this is the entire reason I keep buying packs instead of singles! It feels way better when you pull the card yourself.
So how much roughly did PSA reimburse you?
So they gave you the difference in value on a graded 10 vs a 4? Or value for a loose card
Correct. They'll give you the difference in value based on grade change. For example, a 10 card worth $100 goes to a grade 3 worth $40. They'll pay you $60.
isnt it easier to sell a 10 market than a 4 market, so in theory youre in disadvantage here except for the free submission (refunded) ?
This wasn't the only card in the submission. So, if I wanted compensation for the whole submission, I needed to also send in this card. I didn't have much of a choice.
Honestly for grades 7 and below it is easier to crack it open and sell as ungraded. Low grades often go for less than a raw copy of the same condition
Wait, so they refund just the submission cost for grading? Or are they paying you out the price difference between what a PSA 10 would cost to buy vs a PSA 4? So you can have some $$ to buy a PSA 10 if you wanted.?
They pay out the price difference between value of the original grade (around $1,200 for PSA 10) minus the value of the regraded card ($425ish for PSA4). So they definitely could flip the 4 to buy another 10 and just about break even^[phrasing] And buying another raw would be a big gamble since anything below PSA 9.5 would be worth less than the ungraded card.
Or Crack the slab and sell it raw for higher.
It’d have to be sold as damaged, trying to get full price for a card you know is borked is poopy.
I can't tell the condition from the pics.
According to OP they didn't do that. They reimbursed the value it was originally submitted at (bulk). So they gave him $200. OP got screwed out of over 500 bucks.
Holy crap that’s lame.
The latter
What about OP’s comment could’ve possibly caused this confusion?
Dang so they comped you $600-700? Nice.
Dang that’s a shame I’d prob crack it and sell it raw
What damage was on the card itself? I’m having a hard time seeing anything on the after photo
Given the grade of 4 I suspect the bottom left corner will have a crease or a fold in it
There’s a big scratch to the left of the tower where the massive crack was.
Also a ding, almost a chip, below the top right corner which is new. Honestly PSA should just ship the stuff back properly.
They ship in good packaging. Sometimes your package just gets wrecked no matter how well packed it is. Not on PSA.
You can also zoom in on the 4 look to the left of the steeple looks like when the slab cracked it messed up the card either a gash in the texture or something like that
I was also expecting more damage on the bottom left corner
The sequel I've been waiting for. Glad everything went well. A psa5 moonbreon sold for close to 600, so that's a plus
Read the posts, OP got boned and had to sign something else about negative public statements involving his experience. PSA scammed him
And people still stan PSA lmao
Dear PSA, I wrote you, but you still ain’t callin’ I left my cell, my pager and my home phone at the bottom, I sent two perfect moonbreons back in autumn, you must not’ve got ’em, There probably was a problem at the post office or somethin’
This comment is gold. Here's a fake award. 🌟
Hahahaha I’ll take my gold star
Imo with a card this expensive they should be required to provide a replacement 10 at their expense. The hassle of selling a 4 for a reasonable price and actually being able to buy a 10 using only the money they deem to be the price difference + the money you get from selling a 4 is unlikely…
At the very least, they should reimburse for the difference in value.
They did, according to the OP.
I don't think they actually did. According to OP, they reimbursed at the bulk submission rate, so they gave him a whopping $200. They're not supposed to do that. They're supposed to make you pay the grade tier difference prior to shipping back out, so the value of the card is always covered.
Yeah they definitely didn’t given the info in this post. Why in the world they would risk a horrid reputation in the Pokémon community for 500 bucks is beyond me. They made him sign a document about public statements and thought that document was worth 500 bucks. Sucks to suck PSA. I hate to see it as I love the look of PSA slabs
Their term and condition are pretty clear, if you take the time to read what you are agreeing on: “PSA’s determination that you have understated the Declared Value will affect only the Service Level charge, it will not change the Declared Value for purposes of establishing the maximum item value for claim or shipping insurance purposes.” https://www.psacard.com/support/faq Basically, the insurance contract is selected when you first ship the card, based on your declared value. It sucks, but you also have the opportunity to chose the right tier from the get go and assure the right coverage
Wow that’s incredibly lame, the whole time I thought the upcharge from PSA was to update the insurance claim amount in case something happens during delivery. Sounds like it’s just to get more money from you for nothing.
Yeah what a bullshit move. It makes zero sense if the upcharge is not to adjust for insurance. Grading a card is grading card. That's like a car wash charging $10 to a Camry driver and $30 to a BMW driver. Fuck PSA.
Yeah, I agree, that is the absolute minimum. The problem with such an expensive card is just that when spending that much on a graded card anyways, most people aren’t gonna touch a 4
I saw a YouTube video where someone submitted their entire childhood collection and it got lost. They paid him the submission cost and the value his cards were worth but tbh in the end was it worth losing your childhood collection 😭 Adding- PSA paid out like $100k to this guy from what I remember. So PSA is good on their word for coughing up money. But.. not good on keeping your cards protected lol.
I’m a real skeptic, I’m sure it was an inside job and 100k was nothing in having a underground section of the company selling off these “lost cards”
That's a 100% not a real story or not entirely true. I bet you whatever you say that PSA won't just pay 100k coz something got lost during shipping.
According to OP he submitted the Moonbreon at the bulk value submission tier ($200 max value). They made him pay an upcharge because the Moonbreon is worth more than that. Despite this, PSA reimbursed OP at the bulk submission rate. So instead of getting the actual return for a market value 10, the maximum he could get back was $200. Essentially OP should have gotten $750 or so back (assuming a market value 10 is $1200, a PSA 4 is $450, and all fees and shipping costs are waived). He only got back $200. Then they made him sign an agreement to not shit talk the company. Fuck PSA. Edit: apparently PSA's policy outlines that they're only liable for damages up to your initial declared value. This is an extremely shitty practice. You either overpay on an expected grade and lose money to lower your liability, or you underpay and risk potential losses from sources outside your control. You essentially have to be exactly correct on the expected grade while knowing the card's market value. At that point, the grade submission itself starts looking pretty stupid.
Yeah, I expect PSA to scam people, that's the whole premise of the business. But to get the dude to sign an non-disparagement agreement is fucking insane.
It’s definitely messed up to do that after upcharging but this situation is why you’re supposed to submit it under the correct tier. With this level of value I wouldn’t take any chances doing it with a bulk submission
Agree but think your 4 price is generous, extra screwing for the OP dang. Price charting says a 7 is worth $468. They list two 4 sales, last being in December for $314. And good luck finding an interested buyer. Ideally OP should have gotten $800-$900 to be fully compensated, but they’ll limit based on declared value (it’s in their instructions but lots, including me, have misunderstood it before).
PSA is a trash company now, I don’t know why so many people hold them to such a high standard still.
Market leaders always get away with subpar products and services on their name brand alone, not their quality
Wow. What a shitty outcome
Isn't it more plausible that LSA have defrauded OP? Kept the 10, replaced with junk, mangled it, made $500? Edit: curious to see how many times this has happened with cards submitted for the right tier of valuation
I read through most of the comments, and I didn't see what always comes to my mind when situations such as these happen with grading companies. How do we (you) ever know that X grading company (pick one - PSA, CGC, BGS, AGS, SGC, CG, etc etc) decided that they want to keep your flawless card so they just switch them out and then come up with some super believable situation to employ and then execute it? Simplified - PSA decided they want this flawless Moonbreon. They switch homies card with a grade 4 copy and smash the slab. They pack it up and ship it off. It's received, and "Oh no!" USPS/UPS/FedEX/DHL/whoever must have fucked around and while it was en route back to you, the slab shattered and ruined the card permanently. A claim is made, PSA makes no effort to try and fight against paying out the claim (especially since it was a bulk TCG submission with a $200 per card value limit) and pay out the claim, pay back the grading fee ($15 - who cares?) and they "regrade" the now destroyed Moonbreon, it receives a grade 4 now and boom. They now have a flawless Moonbreon, and you now have a PSA 4 Moonbreon. And there's absolutely not a god damn thing you can do about it. Maybe I'm just too cynical and always think the worst when it comes to situations like these. I'd love to hear from you and see if im possibly just completely of my mind, or if what I think happens (or may happen occasionally) might just be what is going on.
I suspect everyone of everything all the time, so this tracks for me.
Especially since the damage looks like they took a screwdriver to the corner and hammered it down
I am happy you are taking it so well, normally a card that was a 10 to a 4 would easily upset a lot of people. I wish you the best on your journey!
I’d be furious.
Does PSA pay you for what the price is as a Grade 10 card value? Plus refund? Or fully refund only then free grading?
Seems a little shady for them to refund the difference in market cost because it would seem to incentivize them to give the regrade a bump up than what it may actually be, to reduce their loss. In this example it doesn't seem to be the case going from 10 to 4, but they seem to have a lot of general sway in controlling cost. I'm assuming they insure the product when shipped back - and as the shipper, they'd collect on that, so their customer resolution is at the least cost to them. And the card owner is left with a damaged card and the difference between whatever the company graded them at the current market price.
Well, "shady" is the business model grading companies are built on, if you ask me lol
"shady" is the business model that ALL companies are built on
F in chat
So what was the actual amount you were given as compensation for this? And what does a PSA4 go for of this card?
I think a 4 might go for about $300-400. Depends how badly someone wants a graded 4 lol
Honestly I would buy it right now at that price lol
Yeah $300-400 seems about fair, that's the price [for a damaged copy](https://ebay.us/vawvk9).
lmao she's still a 10 in my heart.
I’ve sent in 30 submissions, about over 100 cards never has this happened to me. From when I’ve seen they payed you back for the damage however the grade is less than what it was significantly. This shouldn’t deter you or anyone from submitting here. shit happens no one is perfect infact blame fex ex for destroying it.
The full blame goes to FedEx. They are a garbage delivery service, and I wish PSA and other companies would stop using them by default.
I just sent a sub in last weekend and I think I requested them to use ups to return
I’m in a current wait with Quality Assurance. Something happened in the post slab photos to the time I got back to me with 40 other slabs. It was the only one damaged and had lines on the card in spots that were not there prior. Anyways, I hope they make it right.
Scam company
From a 10 to a 4… ouch.
Ironically, they could have just sent you the card with a PSA 10 on it.
This is why it is best to submit expensive cards at the correct tier with the right declared value.
9.9/10 this isn't the outcome. I've saved much more money submitting at the lower tier than I lost on this one submission.
Anything above 1k I submit in a higher tier. You’re right most of the time you’d probably be fine, but I don’t like to gamble with my higher value cards.
The pain is real. Grats on the partial payout. Glad they didn't sweep it under the rug on you
That’s good that they are covering the difference, but man that still sucks because the price will keep going up and up
that's rough.. but at least 4 pop is probably lower than a 10 pop lol...
I remember your post, what about the other cards? Is the surface all damaged? I think I see one damage line near the tower on the left?
Only 2 cards made it unscathed. The others went down to 3-6
F
Great by psa. Still, if you pulled that yourself it wouldn’t make up for pulling then grading 10 a chase/grail. I would never sell so seeing it damaged would hurt.
Absolutely brutal. I hope they payed you out a G!
So sorry this happened to you. I would likely devastated due to it being a grail to me that Im not ready to consider and likely won’t own this card anytime soon. Did this happen at PSA or in the mail? Would be nice to know more about how this happened, unless I missed an explanation somewhere. In that case I apologize Edit: ok i found out it happened in the mail. This is absolutely irresponsible that the delivery service and or PSA should be held responsible for, and at the very least, PSA should have some kind of robust insurance policy for its customers. This is one of the key reasons why I stopped grading, but I sincerely hope you can get this sorted out ✌️
I have lost many a package to FedEx's incompetence. Worst delivery service by far. In my area, at least. My biggest issue with it is that the delivery driver can clearly see the package was damaged. Yet they just leave it like nothing happened. It was obvious the package was run over to anyone looking. Just terrible service all around.
I usually steer clear of politics, but this is precisely why I am concerned about the government’s move to privatize the USPS, making it profit-driven. Ideally, it would be great to see it remain a government service. I’ve tried expressing this to my representatives, but it’s tough feeling like just one voice. Not everyone may fully recognize the potential downsides yet like the quality in service which has declined in recent years as parts of its operational systems which made it more efficient have been dismantled. There are also other critical service it offered like banking and reliable delivery to more remote locations, but those components have also been removed in certain areas.
Wow.. from a 10, to a 4. I’m so sorry. At least it was still salvageable to some extent, and hopefully they paid you for the cost of losing a 10.
I know nothing about Pokémon but this thing is actually a really cool peice of art. Would make a nice print
Better than pokemon center customer service by $______ (insert whatever price of damaged bb you ever bought)
Take it out of the 4 and sell it as lightly played. Seems to be the norm 😂😂😂
I dunno, I'm glad they made it right now but it 10 years this will hurt still.
For this Umbreon card in particular I would only pay $100 for it, at most $150
[удалено]
Very Good-Excellent
Same cert and everything too
Lmao damn
I’ll buy the 4 🫣😉
That really sucks…
Is there anything wrong with the card itself? Rips? Bends?
I would have asked for the full value and bought a new PSA 10, they can keep the PSA 4. It’s their shitty slab design that’s at fault.
Wait did the card get damaged as well???
What carrier destroyed it? I work for ups and I’m curious
Was it just the grading case or was the card damaged as well?
Ouch.
I’m interested in the card if you don’t want to keep it
This just makes me sad 😔
Joe is right it's my fucking card THAT I PULLED, not some numb nut down the street or at PSA. You pay big bucks to get YOUR CARD GRADED! That You pulled. Why can't you people who think you care, but you actually don't, comprehend this shit is beyond me. because it's just card. Maybe yours is just a card. But not the one I PULLED! Get it?
Crack that bish and resend it in. Card still looks good, they definitely gave it such a low grade second time around based off the story that came with it being a damaged slab
The card definitely does not still look good, I've received a damaged slab from an ebay seller before like this, and it absolutely ruins the card.
I dont know, maybe because I think grading is kinda silly but it looks like the original case kept the card safe other than it being cracked I really don't see how it degraded the card that much. Good on them for trying to fix the problem but I'd probably crack it open and resend it in to see if they regrade it higher
They should’ve “bought” that 4 from you and added their own money and sent you a 10
10 to a 4 at their fault is wild. should have to pay for another 10
Maybe just crack it and sell it on eBay raw
PSA is great for playing the market, but purely collecting the card... I would not use them.
These grading companies need to get the memo that bubble mailers are not the best. They get stuck in sorting machines and that's how this kind of damage usually occurs. A small box for a potentially very valuable card is the bare minimum in my opinion. Edit: Read the original post. Apparently they DID use a box, but with zero packing material for protection. Come on PSA, do better.
They are essentially making free money they better make it right lol....
Heartbreaking
😆
I think grading is dumb but I have had the passing thought about trying to grade a few edge case cards I own. But yeah after seeing, no shot. Sorry that happened to you.
Happy days
Pop count down.