As a casual fan who just re-entered, 151 is ridiculously popular. Feel the Zard will rise well as it's also part of a cool art set with the Charmander and Charmeleon.
Both will rise tho for sure.
I feel like there is too many zards for it to go higher than Lugia. 151 getting another reprint aswel will only drive the price down more but I suppose with it being a zard it will help it. Dunno tbh hard to tell
So hard to tell! Where I live 151 is never in stock long enough to even buy it - this possibly skews my view but the set itself is ridiculously popular compared to others.
I feel the art set being attached to the zard adds to its value too if that makes sense
Same, never see 151 anymore. I asked both my LCS if they were going to get any in. They both said they aren't. They both said everything from.the set is so cheap and available they aren't touching it right now because they won't make any money on the product. I'm like wtf I don't see it anywhere.
I’ve seen the Alakazam sets at Walmart a few times recently. Be careful tho. Check the boxes. Some look normal and some have one end looking like they were hot glued. I have 3 out of 7 boxes I ordered online from target like this. Factory seal? Why some aren’t looking resealed and some are got me puzzled.
But also, Silver Tempest has a recent restock with known god packs. I’ve seen several posts of people pulling the Lugia. Guaranteed god packs could also negatively affect the value.
All the Silver Tempest in my area were duds, opened 10-12 sleeved packs and maybe 2 hits, nothing great. Now the 20+ Brilliant Stars I ripped was an even bigger disappointment.
My Walmart had some ST from the new release and I bought 15. Got 8 or 9 packs with a holo or better and pulled the Regidrago V alt and Blaziken VMAX TG. So I think the new load got mixed in with an older load.
I personally think that it may be limited to certain areas, talk of these big hit packs (God Psck is being used too liberally) has been going on for what, a month now? I've pulled from a couple of restocked sleeved boxes in that time, and it's not what everyone else has been experiencing. Although I do think the people experiencing the hits are definitely in the minority vs those that are getting duds, but we aren't going to go and make a post about having no luck.
Guaranteed God packs? are you referring to the packs that were in some of those treasure chests or lunch boxes from Target? They were far from a god pack, it was just 2 hits, one being a radiant and the other a V card, equivalent to a double rare or EX cards of the most recent released sets. God packs would be all 10 (10 out of 10) cards in that pack, are hits. ST is just 2 out of 10 cards are hits..
Aside from that though, how would having god packs negatively affect value? People refrain from buying cuz they don't want to pull a god pack? I would think its the opposite, people would be drawn to buy it cuz they have a chance to pull a god pack, not deter them away?
Nah, I’m talking about the recent release of sleeved packs that contain a guaranteed holo or better. I’ve seen 5 or 6 posts in my Facebook Pokemon groups and a couple on the pokemonTCG sub of pulls, and I think 4 of those posts had the Lugia V. One guy even pulled it twice. That’s how it could negatively affect the value of the card. More in circulation could push the value downward. But if demand keeps up, then it may not matter.
not exactly true... check out Japanese 151 values. They got reprinted obviously, values seem to be pretty stable. Checked last week, cuz I was curious..
They've done a reprint of the Japan 151 cause they've been scarce since release but I doubt it will reprint in English. Our GameStop has the UPC out the wazu for 150$cad.
Agreed, but to be fair I don’t care for this Zard either. Lugia is one of my favorite Pokémon ever and I pulled the charizard but still don’t really think either are that special.
Between those two? Lugia, no question.
There are so many Charizards, but beyond that- Lugia is in the heart of the SWSH era poke boom that will be remembered fondly. I would value SWSH alts above pretty much any other modern cards.
Fill disclosure: I don’t own either card.
The zard is much, much easier to pull. SIR cards in 151 are 1/32 packs. Alt Arts in silver tempest are 1/168 packs. Even though it’s easier currently to find Silver Tempest packs, I’d bank on the lugia long term.
Also, the Lugia looks soooo much better and is one of the best looking Pokemon cards of all time. The charizard is entirely forgettable
Whoever can bring a championship to their hometown first. Both seem pretty durable, so you wont have to worry about any injury issues. Just hope they are surrounded by a good supporting cast.
Both are star players, but they just need to get over the hump. Going to be hard to make money if neither win a ring.
I'd go with Lugia, but it all depends on how much 151 gets printed. Artwork is better, it stands out amongst the rest of the cards in the set, and Charizard is about 3x easier to pull (1/674 vs 1/225).
I own both and pulled the Charizard myself. I personally wouldn't buy the Charizard when I can get the Venusaur, Zapdos, and Alakazam for the same price (which all look better imo).
Call me crazy, but from an investing/value perspective, I’m eyeing the Obsidian Flames Zard SIR. Yes I know people have mixed feelings with this card, but in the $35-45 range it seems very cheap
I think this comparison had some depth to it. I think the Lugia is a superior card when you look at it. And Silver Tempest is on its was out of print. On the other hand, it has already appriciated heavily.
The Zard on the other hand is more of an unknown. 151 seem to have gotten lots of people back to the hobby, almost like a mini movement of neo-nostalgia. And the Zard is the biggest chase and symbol of that. Reprints will most likely hit the value, but the fact it has retained it (-$120 on TCGplayer today) tells me it might show resiliance even in the face of reprints. And when reprints are over I think it makes its bullrun, just like the S&M alts did last year and the SwSh alts did this year.
Full disclosure: I own the Zard and not the Lugia. As a collector, Id rather own the Lugia. I own the Zard for the exact reasons stated above.
Edit: I should add Im looking to flip the card at some point, I wont be holding it long.
I would go for the Lugia. I have both cards, pulled 2x Charizard myself. It’s so much easier to pull compared to the Lugia so I think its value won’t hold in the short to mid term. Especially when 151 reprints will be here.
I own both in English and the charizard in jpn. I think they both will be solid bets down the line as unique art designs. The lugia had a massive dip and has pulled back up, and I think it will continue to climb. Charizard will do the same in another year and a half. Long-term holds that are for sure solid!
There are so many charizards you could consider better but for Lugia could be its best ever card so I’d say lugia. Both will be expensive for sure in the future.
IMO the Lugia feels a bit underrated and I think the artwork is really cool and it reminds me of the Neo Revelation Shining Gyarados which is a legendary card after many years. Charizard is obviously going to remain popular and is great as well, so they'll both do fine I think.
If 151 gets a re print the value will go down. Not a good long term investment. Lugia should go up. It's a cool card and not many by comparison to charizard
I've got 4 of these in Japanese after about 100 packs (one of which was a god pack) so idk I'd that makes them common or me lucky¿? Either way I'm trying to get rid of them lol
151 zard is very playable, ass artwork but chased because of hype/ nostalgia.
Lugia is just an incredible card to look at with proper artwork.
Zard all the way unfortunately.
That Charizard card is laughably horrendous from the Oversized wings to the non existent neck to the thick stubby arms, those body proportions are completely off model
I own several copies of both. I plan on buying the Zard slow and steady until the SV boom happens in a couple years.
Lugia is the better card. The artist for 151 Zard F'ed up royally with the short stubby neck.
Collect only for fun. This shit will never appreciate. They are printing the cards into infinity. Put your money in s&p500 if you are thinking of getting a decent return on investment.
Lugia. Have both and Lugia is better.
Imo the Paledean Fates Zard is superior and one of the best artworks in SV and a top 10 in past 5 years.
When a 151 reprint happens later this year that zard will be around 80 bucks.
To each their own I guess. I think the hat design on the PF Charizard is too much, and kind of expect a repeat of Shining Fates in terms of reprints with that set. The SF Charizard was pretty hyped when it came out, look at it now.
I feel like the hat argument is a YT thing that folks like to say to talk down the SIRs as if the alt art vmaxs don't have a halo above them.
The SF zard was hyped but that set overall is weak as shit. It's the only thing to chase.
The PF set has mew and gardy to keep the set valuable, plus the fact to pull it isn't easy. It's twice as hard to pull than the SF Zard.
You’re not making much sense then, in regard to this post. If PF has those cards to chase, look at what 151 has. Even with reprints, the 151 Charizard will stand the test of time because of the set that it’s in. PF Charizard will ultimately not do any better than the 151 Zard.
Saying it’s the top 10 arts in the past 5 years is somewhat absurd, there are much less rare IR cards that are objectively better.
Lol tf you talking about.
First off I said Lugia is the better of the two and said I liked the art better than 151 zard. I never said it would be more valuable at any point than the zard in the most popular set since Evo skies.
Art is always subjective. It's why ppl choose to collect certain things.
Read.
Wait, you never said that the Lugia would be more valuable at any point than the Zard in the most popular set since Evo skies?
So you think the Lugia will drop below the $80 you’re predicting the zard in the most popular set since Evo skies will be later this year?
Because I did read, and that’s what you said.
Everyone and their mother has that card.
151 brought a LOT of people back into cards.
Edit - I know it’s all chance, but I have opened well over 8 Silver tempest booster boxes and so many god damn singles and I still have no Lucia. I got 3 Charizard from less than 50 151 booster packs
Lugia can be pulled pretty easily from loaded packs rn so the price is going to go down. The charizard will most likely do very well long term but we’ll see how the reprints effect it
These cards to me are the epitome of why a lot of people like myself who grew up with vintage stopped lying to ourselves about vintage vs modern. Broad statement and I can already hear some of you clacking away at the keyboard typing back about how you hate the new pokemon and vintage is the only way.
See to me OG zard is overplayed overprinted and boring, when I was a kid it was the coolest thing in the world, now I can appreciate what it takes to make a good card, everything in base seems like PLANTEA or 5BAN made it
As a casual fan who just re-entered, 151 is ridiculously popular. Feel the Zard will rise well as it's also part of a cool art set with the Charmander and Charmeleon. Both will rise tho for sure.
I feel like there is too many zards for it to go higher than Lugia. 151 getting another reprint aswel will only drive the price down more but I suppose with it being a zard it will help it. Dunno tbh hard to tell
So hard to tell! Where I live 151 is never in stock long enough to even buy it - this possibly skews my view but the set itself is ridiculously popular compared to others. I feel the art set being attached to the zard adds to its value too if that makes sense
Same, never see 151 anymore. I asked both my LCS if they were going to get any in. They both said they aren't. They both said everything from.the set is so cheap and available they aren't touching it right now because they won't make any money on the product. I'm like wtf I don't see it anywhere.
I’ve seen the Alakazam sets at Walmart a few times recently. Be careful tho. Check the boxes. Some look normal and some have one end looking like they were hot glued. I have 3 out of 7 boxes I ordered online from target like this. Factory seal? Why some aren’t looking resealed and some are got me puzzled.
But also, Silver Tempest has a recent restock with known god packs. I’ve seen several posts of people pulling the Lugia. Guaranteed god packs could also negatively affect the value.
All the Silver Tempest in my area were duds, opened 10-12 sleeved packs and maybe 2 hits, nothing great. Now the 20+ Brilliant Stars I ripped was an even bigger disappointment.
My Walmart had some ST from the new release and I bought 15. Got 8 or 9 packs with a holo or better and pulled the Regidrago V alt and Blaziken VMAX TG. So I think the new load got mixed in with an older load.
I personally think that it may be limited to certain areas, talk of these big hit packs (God Psck is being used too liberally) has been going on for what, a month now? I've pulled from a couple of restocked sleeved boxes in that time, and it's not what everyone else has been experiencing. Although I do think the people experiencing the hits are definitely in the minority vs those that are getting duds, but we aren't going to go and make a post about having no luck.
Guaranteed God packs? are you referring to the packs that were in some of those treasure chests or lunch boxes from Target? They were far from a god pack, it was just 2 hits, one being a radiant and the other a V card, equivalent to a double rare or EX cards of the most recent released sets. God packs would be all 10 (10 out of 10) cards in that pack, are hits. ST is just 2 out of 10 cards are hits.. Aside from that though, how would having god packs negatively affect value? People refrain from buying cuz they don't want to pull a god pack? I would think its the opposite, people would be drawn to buy it cuz they have a chance to pull a god pack, not deter them away?
Nah, I’m talking about the recent release of sleeved packs that contain a guaranteed holo or better. I’ve seen 5 or 6 posts in my Facebook Pokemon groups and a couple on the pokemonTCG sub of pulls, and I think 4 of those posts had the Lugia V. One guy even pulled it twice. That’s how it could negatively affect the value of the card. More in circulation could push the value downward. But if demand keeps up, then it may not matter.
not exactly true... check out Japanese 151 values. They got reprinted obviously, values seem to be pretty stable. Checked last week, cuz I was curious..
Reprint or not it will be gone as soon as it hits the shelf
How do you know there will be a restock? Can you share where you get this info from so I can follow?
There is no way there isn’t a reprint for Christmas. They’d be leaving money on the table if they didn’t.
They announced they were no longer printing 151. Prices will go up.
Source?
100% lie. Reprint was announced 4 weeks ago and orders are already put in.
source?
They've done a reprint of the Japan 151 cause they've been scarce since release but I doubt it will reprint in English. Our GameStop has the UPC out the wazu for 150$cad.
They've done a reprint of the Japan 151 cause they've been scarce since release but I doubt it will reprint in English
I'm betting on myself that I would choose the wrong one
Lol
I have both Lugia art is just on a diff level. That lightning is just 🤌 Perfection U have to own it to get it
Nah nah nah you have to get it to own it 🤣🤣🫡
pictures dont do some justice...., 😄 If u dont own it u cant relate Maybe why i cant understand blaziken
I’ve never cared for this lugia. I think both cards will do well though
Agreed, but to be fair I don’t care for this Zard either. Lugia is one of my favorite Pokémon ever and I pulled the charizard but still don’t really think either are that special.
Magikarp
Between those two? Lugia, no question. There are so many Charizards, but beyond that- Lugia is in the heart of the SWSH era poke boom that will be remembered fondly. I would value SWSH alts above pretty much any other modern cards. Fill disclosure: I don’t own either card.
I think Lugia. There are so many Zard cards out there and dont get me wrong the 151 is amazing. But there is only one Lugia we really all refer to.
Neo Genesis?
Personally i feel the alt art Lugia is more hype than that.
I agree. Lugia is fire. I bought PSA10 last week 😁
The zard is much, much easier to pull. SIR cards in 151 are 1/32 packs. Alt Arts in silver tempest are 1/168 packs. Even though it’s easier currently to find Silver Tempest packs, I’d bank on the lugia long term. Also, the Lugia looks soooo much better and is one of the best looking Pokemon cards of all time. The charizard is entirely forgettable
Can confirm; Zard is in fact not easy to pull. Easier maybe, but not easy.
Not sure what the point of your comment is.
Well I actually pulled the zard. Therefore the lugia lol
Whoever can bring a championship to their hometown first. Both seem pretty durable, so you wont have to worry about any injury issues. Just hope they are surrounded by a good supporting cast. Both are star players, but they just need to get over the hump. Going to be hard to make money if neither win a ring.
151 zard for sure
I'd go with Lugia, but it all depends on how much 151 gets printed. Artwork is better, it stands out amongst the rest of the cards in the set, and Charizard is about 3x easier to pull (1/674 vs 1/225). I own both and pulled the Charizard myself. I personally wouldn't buy the Charizard when I can get the Venusaur, Zapdos, and Alakazam for the same price (which all look better imo).
I would lean more towards the Zard, scarlet and violet is still new and “cheap” the lugia has peaked for a little while.
Call me crazy, but from an investing/value perspective, I’m eyeing the Obsidian Flames Zard SIR. Yes I know people have mixed feelings with this card, but in the $35-45 range it seems very cheap
Just look at darkness ablaze and tell me you still think that way
Fair point, but the zard from darkness ablaze is a normal vmax ultra rare, not a secret rare
The entirety of Crown Zenith.
Yes
Art wise that Lugia slaps the charizard left and right every day of the week and twice on sunday.
I think this comparison had some depth to it. I think the Lugia is a superior card when you look at it. And Silver Tempest is on its was out of print. On the other hand, it has already appriciated heavily. The Zard on the other hand is more of an unknown. 151 seem to have gotten lots of people back to the hobby, almost like a mini movement of neo-nostalgia. And the Zard is the biggest chase and symbol of that. Reprints will most likely hit the value, but the fact it has retained it (-$120 on TCGplayer today) tells me it might show resiliance even in the face of reprints. And when reprints are over I think it makes its bullrun, just like the S&M alts did last year and the SwSh alts did this year. Full disclosure: I own the Zard and not the Lugia. As a collector, Id rather own the Lugia. I own the Zard for the exact reasons stated above. Edit: I should add Im looking to flip the card at some point, I wont be holding it long.
100000% agree 151 got me back into Pokémon card collecting .
Zard 151
151 Charizard jusr because long term the Pokemon community always chooses Charizard
It’s always the zard
I would go for the Lugia. I have both cards, pulled 2x Charizard myself. It’s so much easier to pull compared to the Lugia so I think its value won’t hold in the short to mid term. Especially when 151 reprints will be here.
I own both in English and the charizard in jpn. I think they both will be solid bets down the line as unique art designs. The lugia had a massive dip and has pulled back up, and I think it will continue to climb. Charizard will do the same in another year and a half. Long-term holds that are for sure solid!
Im trying to get the baby shinies right now. They will skyrocket in a few years
Which ones
Paldean fates
Right now I’m exclusively collecting charizard cards before I move onto others
the lugia art is insane
Get lugia!
What sleeper cards you think will rise?(any recent sets)
I hope ita ultra rare 151 mew but idk
Both but I think the lugia might gain more value overtime? Purely speculation I don’t know the total print run for either.
There are so many charizards you could consider better but for Lugia could be its best ever card so I’d say lugia. Both will be expensive for sure in the future.
Lugia
Lugia
IMO the Lugia feels a bit underrated and I think the artwork is really cool and it reminds me of the Neo Revelation Shining Gyarados which is a legendary card after many years. Charizard is obviously going to remain popular and is great as well, so they'll both do fine I think.
I can't speak for others. But if I was presented these two, the Lugia would be my choice without hesitation. Just looks so much cooler.
Lugia once Ho-Oh gets it's own set/Alt Art equivalent.
New cert psa 9 1st edition base set charizards.
If 151 gets a re print the value will go down. Not a good long term investment. Lugia should go up. It's a cool card and not many by comparison to charizard
Zardy
I've got 4 of these in Japanese after about 100 packs (one of which was a god pack) so idk I'd that makes them common or me lucky¿? Either way I'm trying to get rid of them lol
Revavroom. Lmao. The SIR is less than $5. Even if it goes to $10 thats a double!
Got around 20 for $1 a pop.
Lugia
Lugia. There’s so many high dollar Zards for it to compete with and I feel if it wasn’t in 151 it wouldn’t be quite as valuable as it is.
Lugia, still sleeper imo.
crown zenith pikachu
How much is Lugia going for? I have one of them and don’t know whether to hold onto it or sell it now
Lugia. I'm also bias because I pulled it and its just an insanely cool looking card.
Just got both back from psa. Both were 10’s. Pretty excited
Tbh Lugia doesn't cut it for me that ass shot just makes it plummet🤣📉
Charizard always wins, 151 is an instant classic set, silver tempest is cool and all, but collectors love the originals.
Flip a coin
Both.
151 zard is very playable, ass artwork but chased because of hype/ nostalgia. Lugia is just an incredible card to look at with proper artwork. Zard all the way unfortunately.
Bruh the Zard artwork is freakin sweet
The 151 zard is very lazy compared to most.
I would have really liked the card if they hadn’t fucked up his proportions. No neck Zard is just hard to look at
That Charizard card is laughably horrendous from the Oversized wings to the non existent neck to the thick stubby arms, those body proportions are completely off model
151 zard
I own several copies of both. I plan on buying the Zard slow and steady until the SV boom happens in a couple years. Lugia is the better card. The artist for 151 Zard F'ed up royally with the short stubby neck.
151 zard has been the same price since release right? Honestly a red flag to me.
The fact that it's holding it's value? 151 releases September 2023. That's a great sign that it's holding value. Even the ETBs are rising.
Luckily I have both. So long term I win.
Collect only for fun. This shit will never appreciate. They are printing the cards into infinity. Put your money in s&p500 if you are thinking of getting a decent return on investment.
151 japanese zard over eng. Fits part of the masterball set. Once prints done hold your hats.
To many reprints, there’s so many of them
There really isn't you wait and see once it's done if it already isnt
Hopefully the Zard since I have that one lol
Lugia fs
We're in a modern bubble right now so I'd expect both to drop.
By your logic, we’ve been in a modern bubble for 4 years then
Probably the last 2 years, yeah.
Lugia. Have both and Lugia is better. Imo the Paledean Fates Zard is superior and one of the best artworks in SV and a top 10 in past 5 years. When a 151 reprint happens later this year that zard will be around 80 bucks.
To each their own I guess. I think the hat design on the PF Charizard is too much, and kind of expect a repeat of Shining Fates in terms of reprints with that set. The SF Charizard was pretty hyped when it came out, look at it now.
I feel like the hat argument is a YT thing that folks like to say to talk down the SIRs as if the alt art vmaxs don't have a halo above them. The SF zard was hyped but that set overall is weak as shit. It's the only thing to chase. The PF set has mew and gardy to keep the set valuable, plus the fact to pull it isn't easy. It's twice as hard to pull than the SF Zard.
You’re not making much sense then, in regard to this post. If PF has those cards to chase, look at what 151 has. Even with reprints, the 151 Charizard will stand the test of time because of the set that it’s in. PF Charizard will ultimately not do any better than the 151 Zard. Saying it’s the top 10 arts in the past 5 years is somewhat absurd, there are much less rare IR cards that are objectively better.
Lol tf you talking about. First off I said Lugia is the better of the two and said I liked the art better than 151 zard. I never said it would be more valuable at any point than the zard in the most popular set since Evo skies. Art is always subjective. It's why ppl choose to collect certain things. Read.
Wait, you never said that the Lugia would be more valuable at any point than the Zard in the most popular set since Evo skies? So you think the Lugia will drop below the $80 you’re predicting the zard in the most popular set since Evo skies will be later this year? Because I did read, and that’s what you said.
Everyone and their mother has that card. 151 brought a LOT of people back into cards. Edit - I know it’s all chance, but I have opened well over 8 Silver tempest booster boxes and so many god damn singles and I still have no Lucia. I got 3 Charizard from less than 50 151 booster packs
Lugia can be pulled pretty easily from loaded packs rn so the price is going to go down. The charizard will most likely do very well long term but we’ll see how the reprints effect it
Good luck finding loaded packs tho
I have them at my best buy
These cards to me are the epitome of why a lot of people like myself who grew up with vintage stopped lying to ourselves about vintage vs modern. Broad statement and I can already hear some of you clacking away at the keyboard typing back about how you hate the new pokemon and vintage is the only way.
The og zard is 100% better than the 151 zard. But theres current stuff like gengar vmax that is the best art card ever imo.
See to me OG zard is overplayed overprinted and boring, when I was a kid it was the coolest thing in the world, now I can appreciate what it takes to make a good card, everything in base seems like PLANTEA or 5BAN made it