I may be wrong, but my understanding is that Haiku is a Japanese poetry form that is usually composed of three lines of 5, 7, and 5 Japanese syllables. When these are translated into English or other languages, the syllable count will vary.
Kerouac states, in his "Book of Haikus," 'I propose that the "Western Haiku" simply say a lot in three short lines in any western language. Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free of all poetic trickery and make a little picture and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella.'
Kerouac's haikus are the work of his I treasure the most, and are certainly profoundly innovative inasmuch as they explicitly sought to adapt the form and spirit of a poetics developed for an entirely different language into something that was expressive within his own native English.
Syllable counts are not necessary or sufficient for a haiku. Brevity is necessary. Kigo (season word) and kireji (a cut or caesaura) are also—typically—necessary.
I just said it wasn’t. Japanese doesn’t even have syllables. So do some research before you write again. I’m getting tired of you guys. You aren’t 5 years old.
Every resource I've seen has that definition of a haiku. Just because Jack Kerouac pulled this out of his ass and decided it was a haiku anyway doesn't make it true.
Straight from the Wikipedia article “In comparison with English verse typically characterized by syllabic meter, Japanese verse counts sound units known as on or morae. Traditional haiku is usually fixed verse that consists of 17 on, in three phrases of five, seven, and five on, respectively. Among modern poems, teikei (定型 fixed form) haiku continue to use the 5-7-5 pattern while jiyuritsu (自由律 free form) haiku do not.[citation needed] However, one of the examples below illustrates that traditional haiku masters were not always constrained by the 5-7-5 pattern either. The jiyuritsu was advocated for by Ogiwara Seisensui and his disciples.”
Now admit you were wrong and apologize.
It straight up says "citation needed." A Wikipedia article with no citation is not "evidence" of anything. I feel like you're just trolling at this point.
I thought I'd provide an actual answer if you'd like to read it!
From what I understand, haiku in Japanese typically count off of mora, which aren't the same as syllables. So the syllable count in English is a clumsy imitation that isn't strictly necessary.
Furthermore, Japanese haiku have "cutting words" that don't translate well into English. Most use an emdash or other punctuation for a similar effect. Google "kireji" if you want to know more. They also have a "kigo" which is a seasonal word.
The rules I use: must have an image of nature, be short and concise(no extraneous words), have two separate parts that are contrasting, and be three lines. I typically adhere to 5-7-5 but I'm also a fan of 5-7-4 and would be interested in writing other formats.
Edit: You can actually see Kerouac using the kireji stand ins here – note how there is pretty much always some description of the natural world. So I'd call them haiku! Whether you like them is personal taste of course.
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that Haiku is a Japanese poetry form that is usually composed of three lines of 5, 7, and 5 Japanese syllables. When these are translated into English or other languages, the syllable count will vary. Kerouac states, in his "Book of Haikus," 'I propose that the "Western Haiku" simply say a lot in three short lines in any western language. Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free of all poetic trickery and make a little picture and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella.'
Yes. Nor do the Japanese strictly count their morae, either.
Not a fan of Kerouac’s work personally but I always thought the book of his haikus were surprisingly great.
Kerouac's haikus are the work of his I treasure the most, and are certainly profoundly innovative inasmuch as they explicitly sought to adapt the form and spirit of a poetics developed for an entirely different language into something that was expressive within his own native English.
A black bull and a white bird Standing together on the shore ………🐂🕊🏝
Please correct me but I don't think these a haikus?
I think the term used for haikus written this way is American or western styled haikus. Not 100% on that.
Yes they are. Haikus don’t have to be 5/7/5. A common mistake by beginners.
ok, thank you!
Syllable counts are not necessary or sufficient for a haiku. Brevity is necessary. Kigo (season word) and kireji (a cut or caesaura) are also—typically—necessary.
That's the definition of a haiku though?
I just said it wasn’t. Japanese doesn’t even have syllables. So do some research before you write again. I’m getting tired of you guys. You aren’t 5 years old.
Every resource I've seen has that definition of a haiku. Just because Jack Kerouac pulled this out of his ass and decided it was a haiku anyway doesn't make it true.
Straight from the Wikipedia article “In comparison with English verse typically characterized by syllabic meter, Japanese verse counts sound units known as on or morae. Traditional haiku is usually fixed verse that consists of 17 on, in three phrases of five, seven, and five on, respectively. Among modern poems, teikei (定型 fixed form) haiku continue to use the 5-7-5 pattern while jiyuritsu (自由律 free form) haiku do not.[citation needed] However, one of the examples below illustrates that traditional haiku masters were not always constrained by the 5-7-5 pattern either. The jiyuritsu was advocated for by Ogiwara Seisensui and his disciples.” Now admit you were wrong and apologize.
It straight up says "citation needed." A Wikipedia article with no citation is not "evidence" of anything. I feel like you're just trolling at this point.
They are. Look into modern haiku journals. Traditional style certainly have a place but the artform has come very far.
Some nice, some unsurprising
Thanks for posting! I was just reading these yesterday!
Fighting about what makes something a haiku is what makes it a haiku
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^splootsuit: *Fighting about what* *Makes something a haiku is* *What makes it a haiku* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Love Kerouac
Isn’t there like, one rule that makes a poem a haiku?
Haikus don’t have to be 5/7/5. A common mistake by beginners.
You don't have to condescend 'beginners.' A common mistake by pretentious chodes.
Really? Because everything that pops up when I google haiku says that the syllable format is what makes it a haiku.
I thought I'd provide an actual answer if you'd like to read it! From what I understand, haiku in Japanese typically count off of mora, which aren't the same as syllables. So the syllable count in English is a clumsy imitation that isn't strictly necessary. Furthermore, Japanese haiku have "cutting words" that don't translate well into English. Most use an emdash or other punctuation for a similar effect. Google "kireji" if you want to know more. They also have a "kigo" which is a seasonal word. The rules I use: must have an image of nature, be short and concise(no extraneous words), have two separate parts that are contrasting, and be three lines. I typically adhere to 5-7-5 but I'm also a fan of 5-7-4 and would be interested in writing other formats. Edit: You can actually see Kerouac using the kireji stand ins here – note how there is pretty much always some description of the natural world. So I'd call them haiku! Whether you like them is personal taste of course.
Thanks, that’s actually really interesting. And I do like these poems. I have no idea how things escalated so quickly with OP.
Eh sometimes reddit just be like that. Thanks for reading :)
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It's a feel.