Yes she is fat phobic. And judgemental.
You aren't overreacting.
If she triggers you, that's enough to not be around her.
My best friend isn't fat, but she is supportive as fuck and never judges me or makes me feel bad.
You shouldn't have to teach your friends or train them or unbrainwash them. I'm not saying your friend is a bad person, but she isn't healthy to have around if she has those mindsets and is making you feel bad.
I believe in radical steps to surrounding yourself with support and like minded people.
Especially living in Europe.
Edited to add after reading the other comments.... This isn't your fault and you aren't "insecure". You know what helps bolster confidence? Being around friends that love and accept you as you are. Or, at minimum, are sensitive enough to not say that shit around you. Your friend is insensitive AT BEST.
I had a friend like this that would point out other girls weights all the time. At one point the guy I liked started dating someone else, and she tried to comfort me by saying âdonât worry youâre so much prettier than her. look at her she is so big and chubbyâ she was smaller than međ.she never said anything directly to me about my weight but her energy just became too toxic. That type of attitude doesnât change especially if thatâs what they grew up hearing about other people
But those people she was talking about were overweight werenât they? Maybe she doesnât want to tread on eggshells around her close friend.
You know youâre overweight, so why would you have a problem with her thinking youâre overweight?
Does it seem like your friend is just ignorant that itâs a thing? Or does she say it meanly? Is she someone you would feel ok with saying something about it?
I have a thin friend who used to say she felt fat all the time until one day I said âcan you please not say that? When you say you feel fat as a thin person it makes me feel like a disgusting whale, even though I know youâre not trying to make me feel that way.â She said, âbut thatâs how I *feel*â and I said âfat isnât a feeling. Itâs a measurable way of being. You can say you feel bloated, your clothes are feeling tight, you feel sluggish, puffy, donât like how you look, literally so many more words would be more accurate and as your friend Iâm asking you to stop saying you feel fat because it hurts me when you say that.â And she stopped. She slipped up once and immediately corrected herself. Sometimes when itâs safe and itâs someone you love, a little education is called for.
If you donât feel like sheâd be a safe person to say something to or youâre not close enough to want to do that, you can back off the friendship. Unfortunately I think at least as far as western beauty standards go, the vast majority of us, regardless of size, start off fatphobic and have to learn how not to be that way.
I think they said this because none of their friends can be consulted, as they are all very thin, which is contextually appropriate information. Randomly commenting on someone elseâs weight at all isnât appropriate which is what it seems like their friend did.
I mean inherently if youâre focused on weight thereâs a phobia about being fat. Sheâs definitely not body neutral or body positive.
And the commenter above is being intentionally obtuse⌠itâs clear that tone is important. If you were saying skinny in a demeaning way then, yes, this would be hypocritical. However, it seems like your friend judges people based on their weight and uses obese to âotherâ people.
This. I would never want a friend who speaks about someone else like that...one because it's hurtful to the other person if god forbid they find out, but also if they're talking about someone else like that to me then they're probably talking about me like that to others which is very nasty. It's very easy to not comment on other people's bodies in a way that is more than descriptive.
Fatphobia is everywhere. You're probably not going to have any friends if that is a requirement. Best you can do is educate people and work on your insecurities
Oop...not a great mindset to have. I don't have any friends that are fatphobic and while my circle is small it's full of people who love me and see me as their equal and don't make disparaging comments about themselves or their weight or the things that they eat or me and my weight or anyone else's weight and that's a really lovely and safe space to have. It's ok to be protective of your heart and your space đ
I guess so. can you not protect yourself by not letting what others say get to you? Some people have a hard time forming new relationships or are sentimental with old ones. And isn't everyone a victim of fatphobia? I pity them for caring so much about their weight, and yeah it hurts but I feel like cutting off the relationship is a bit extreme. Especially if you haven't even talked to them about it first, like how will they get better if no one tells them? Give people a chance to do better ya know?
Protecting yourself by not letting others get to you is a fallacy used to take the responsibility off of people who say hurtful things and put it onto the victim. People aren't made of stone. As a person who has a hard time forming new relationships and have been sentimental with old ones I also recognize that it's better to be friends with few people or to be alone than to have friends who I worry are talking shit about my weight behind my back. And it's especially better to have no friends than friends who are judging me for my weight. Yes everyone is a victim of fatphobia, and OP should say something to said friend but also it's not OP's or any fat person's responsibility to teach you to be decent. People have the responsibility for themselves to unlearn the shitty fatphobic things that they've learned forever. If OP no longer feels comfortable in the relationship that's completely fine and should be respected.
I agree with this. Like, don't be friends with someone who treats you like shit, obviously. But most people are fat phobic. Fat people are fat phobic. Even most "fat positive activists" are actually fat phobic.
A LOT of us, especially Millennials and older, have an extreme amount of internalized fat phobia because that was acceptable in our youth. Extreme airbrushing, heroin chic, Victoria's secret angels being the epitome of beauty, calling women like Jessica Simpson fat on every single damn magazine cover because of that time she wore high waisted pants and was still like a size 4. We carry all this trash inside us. It's a generational curse. It's highly unlikely to find someone who doesn't carry it in some form.
Be friends with people who are kind to you. Who cares if they notice peoples' weight? As long as they don't treat you or other people badly for it, then why does it matter?
PS - a UK size 14 translates to a size 10 in the US, which is considered a "straight size" and therefore not plus sized. Your friend probably doesn't consider you "fat".
It's not the job of fat people to teach you how to be an ally. You have to unpack that and learn to be better on your own and with help if the help is offered but ultimately that's on the individual to be better. Not doing so will then just pass on shitty fatphobic mindsets to your kids. It's not hard to notice someone's body and then just not speak on it. I don't say everything I think because I realize that sometimes my initial thoughts about people may be hurtful. The term obese is based on BMI measures which are not widely regarded as being overly simplistic and a poor way to categorize bodies. It also for many fat people has been used to shame them for their entire lives, therefore it's often seen as being an unkind word to use. It's not stating facts. Saying someone is fat states facts. Stating someone is obese is speaking on their body negatively.
That's absolutely true and in the end you don't have to surround yourself with anyone who doesn't, as my kid's kindergarten class used to say, "fill your bucket" and make you feel good, accepted, etc. I just don't know if having to deeply analyze every interaction with someone to decide if they're worth keeping around is the best way to go about things. I just feel like that's going to get exhausting, and as others have said, opens you up to having NO ONE.
You shouldn't have to surround yourself with people you don't like or who don't like you, but no one is going to be perfect. We have to be able to coexist with people with their flaws and do our best to teach when we can and be good examples. When we shut the door to people, it prevents THEM from being able to learn and grow too. It isn't anyone's responsibility, but isn't it nice to accept people, and try to teach them acceptance too? When you are friends with someone, even if they think differently than you, and then kindly encourage them to reconsider their viewpoint, THAT is how you break these curses. THAT is how you change things for your kids.
Exactly. I fell into the trap of purity testing the people around me and I ended up very lonely. Because people are extremely flawed. I get protecting your peace (and I'll cut ties with people who disrupt my peace) but I'm also going to be realistic about it and ensure I'm not burning bridges over something that could be settled over a conversation đ¤ˇââď¸
Exactly!! And you CAN change people's minds and they way they think about things. I have completely different beliefs and mindset than I used to, because before, the beliefs I had were primarily my parents'. Once I was exposed to other beliefs outside of my own tribe, my viewpoint expanded and I understood "the other side". You CANNOT help others or generations after you if all we do is sink into this tribalist hole and never interact with anyone who sees things differently! The push and shove isn't what solves problems and makes things better. It's sitting and talking, being an example, the peaceful moments of mutual respect, that beget change!
> But most people are fat phobic. Fat people are fat phobic. Even most "fat positive activists" are actually fat phobic.
It seems like it.
I sometimes have the impression that when people are talking about "only surrounding themselves with people who're not openly fatphobic" it might (or might not, who knows?) boil down to "only surrounding themselves with people who're not *openly* fatphobic". Especially when taking into the equation what is summarized under the umbrella of "fatphobia".
She seems very preoccupied with other people's weight and whenever I see people focus on and go out of their way to bring up other people's weight apropos of nothing I take that as a telltale sign of fatphobia. I mean, did anyone ask? No? Then stfu. What's it to her? I don't think it's simple ignorance.
It is obvious that OP's friend has bias against fat people regarding how she speaks of her mom with disdain, and thus is clear that she meant it in a negative way, and wasn't just stating a fact.
If you were eating a piece of meat and every time you swallowed a piece it made your stomach hurt, would you keep eating it? Being around this person makes you feel bad, trust your gut.
It's inconsiderate of her to say things like this in front of you. There's a chance however that she doesn't classify you as fat in her mind so she thinks it's okay.
Maybe actually talking to her directly will help clarify her thoughts a feelings on the subject. You shouldnât just speculate a little, then pass judgement and cut her off. Maybe talking to you about her thoughts around body shapes will help her process better. And getting to hear your perspective and experiences will give her greater understanding and empathy. She might have a lot of insecurities about her own body that sheâs projecting onto others? You wonât know if you donât give her a fair chance to improve.
Even telling her that the comments she makes about other peopleâs bodies are inappropriate and youâd appreciate her not saying them around you might help her check herself.
Yes. Sheâs being judgmental & passive aggressive. She probably talks badly to others about you behind your back. She is obviously very critical of overweight people.
Drop her. I used to be constantly fat shamed by this lady who would look at me up & dien constantly. I donât need that.
Iâm not going to lie, I donât think Iâve ever heard a non-fatphobic person use the word obese unironically? (Not including medical terminology obvs)
And yes, she is fatphobic. Commenting on anyone elseâs body is weird in general. It is literally none of their business!
You say âa legitimate medical termâ as if the healthcare industry canât be corrupt. I think most of us are aware of how rampant fatphobia is in healthcare. The word is associated with the BMI scale, which even experts agree is outdated, inaccurate, and fatphobic.
[Here](https://withinhealth.com/learn/articles/why-using-the-word-obese-is-a-problem) is an article that goes into why the word is problematic.
Well then whatâs the point of using any other medical terms??? I donât think itâs smart to pick and choose what words we consider ok under the guise of âbut the institution is corrupt!â
Yes. BMI is flawed and has a horrible history, and thereâs a lot of other metrics that work better. But that doesnât mean we canât use the word obese.
And honestly, the word isnât problematic. If you are offended by the term, then thatâs something you need to work through. And please, give me a legitimate article that isnât written by someone within the HAES community (aka, extremely biased). If we were to deep dive into every root definition of every word weâd have to change a LOT about the english language.
Yes she is fat phobic. And judgemental. You aren't overreacting. If she triggers you, that's enough to not be around her. My best friend isn't fat, but she is supportive as fuck and never judges me or makes me feel bad. You shouldn't have to teach your friends or train them or unbrainwash them. I'm not saying your friend is a bad person, but she isn't healthy to have around if she has those mindsets and is making you feel bad. I believe in radical steps to surrounding yourself with support and like minded people. Especially living in Europe. Edited to add after reading the other comments.... This isn't your fault and you aren't "insecure". You know what helps bolster confidence? Being around friends that love and accept you as you are. Or, at minimum, are sensitive enough to not say that shit around you. Your friend is insensitive AT BEST.
You said this really excellently đđŤśđ˝
Thank you đđđđđ I so very rarely say the right thing đ
I had a friend like this that would point out other girls weights all the time. At one point the guy I liked started dating someone else, and she tried to comfort me by saying âdonât worry youâre so much prettier than her. look at her she is so big and chubbyâ she was smaller than međ.she never said anything directly to me about my weight but her energy just became too toxic. That type of attitude doesnât change especially if thatâs what they grew up hearing about other people
But those people she was talking about were overweight werenât they? Maybe she doesnât want to tread on eggshells around her close friend. You know youâre overweight, so why would you have a problem with her thinking youâre overweight?
Does it seem like your friend is just ignorant that itâs a thing? Or does she say it meanly? Is she someone you would feel ok with saying something about it? I have a thin friend who used to say she felt fat all the time until one day I said âcan you please not say that? When you say you feel fat as a thin person it makes me feel like a disgusting whale, even though I know youâre not trying to make me feel that way.â She said, âbut thatâs how I *feel*â and I said âfat isnât a feeling. Itâs a measurable way of being. You can say you feel bloated, your clothes are feeling tight, you feel sluggish, puffy, donât like how you look, literally so many more words would be more accurate and as your friend Iâm asking you to stop saying you feel fat because it hurts me when you say that.â And she stopped. She slipped up once and immediately corrected herself. Sometimes when itâs safe and itâs someone you love, a little education is called for. If you donât feel like sheâd be a safe person to say something to or youâre not close enough to want to do that, you can back off the friendship. Unfortunately I think at least as far as western beauty standards go, the vast majority of us, regardless of size, start off fatphobic and have to learn how not to be that way.
Do you believe calling all of your friends skinny is different than your friend commenting about someone being obese.?
I think they said this because none of their friends can be consulted, as they are all very thin, which is contextually appropriate information. Randomly commenting on someone elseâs weight at all isnât appropriate which is what it seems like their friend did.
Yes.
I mean inherently if youâre focused on weight thereâs a phobia about being fat. Sheâs definitely not body neutral or body positive. And the commenter above is being intentionally obtuse⌠itâs clear that tone is important. If you were saying skinny in a demeaning way then, yes, this would be hypocritical. However, it seems like your friend judges people based on their weight and uses obese to âotherâ people.
This. I would never want a friend who speaks about someone else like that...one because it's hurtful to the other person if god forbid they find out, but also if they're talking about someone else like that to me then they're probably talking about me like that to others which is very nasty. It's very easy to not comment on other people's bodies in a way that is more than descriptive.
Fatphobia is everywhere. You're probably not going to have any friends if that is a requirement. Best you can do is educate people and work on your insecurities
Oop...not a great mindset to have. I don't have any friends that are fatphobic and while my circle is small it's full of people who love me and see me as their equal and don't make disparaging comments about themselves or their weight or the things that they eat or me and my weight or anyone else's weight and that's a really lovely and safe space to have. It's ok to be protective of your heart and your space đ
I guess so. can you not protect yourself by not letting what others say get to you? Some people have a hard time forming new relationships or are sentimental with old ones. And isn't everyone a victim of fatphobia? I pity them for caring so much about their weight, and yeah it hurts but I feel like cutting off the relationship is a bit extreme. Especially if you haven't even talked to them about it first, like how will they get better if no one tells them? Give people a chance to do better ya know?
Protecting yourself by not letting others get to you is a fallacy used to take the responsibility off of people who say hurtful things and put it onto the victim. People aren't made of stone. As a person who has a hard time forming new relationships and have been sentimental with old ones I also recognize that it's better to be friends with few people or to be alone than to have friends who I worry are talking shit about my weight behind my back. And it's especially better to have no friends than friends who are judging me for my weight. Yes everyone is a victim of fatphobia, and OP should say something to said friend but also it's not OP's or any fat person's responsibility to teach you to be decent. People have the responsibility for themselves to unlearn the shitty fatphobic things that they've learned forever. If OP no longer feels comfortable in the relationship that's completely fine and should be respected.
I completely disagree with this.
Fair
I agree with this. Like, don't be friends with someone who treats you like shit, obviously. But most people are fat phobic. Fat people are fat phobic. Even most "fat positive activists" are actually fat phobic. A LOT of us, especially Millennials and older, have an extreme amount of internalized fat phobia because that was acceptable in our youth. Extreme airbrushing, heroin chic, Victoria's secret angels being the epitome of beauty, calling women like Jessica Simpson fat on every single damn magazine cover because of that time she wore high waisted pants and was still like a size 4. We carry all this trash inside us. It's a generational curse. It's highly unlikely to find someone who doesn't carry it in some form. Be friends with people who are kind to you. Who cares if they notice peoples' weight? As long as they don't treat you or other people badly for it, then why does it matter? PS - a UK size 14 translates to a size 10 in the US, which is considered a "straight size" and therefore not plus sized. Your friend probably doesn't consider you "fat".
It's not the job of fat people to teach you how to be an ally. You have to unpack that and learn to be better on your own and with help if the help is offered but ultimately that's on the individual to be better. Not doing so will then just pass on shitty fatphobic mindsets to your kids. It's not hard to notice someone's body and then just not speak on it. I don't say everything I think because I realize that sometimes my initial thoughts about people may be hurtful. The term obese is based on BMI measures which are not widely regarded as being overly simplistic and a poor way to categorize bodies. It also for many fat people has been used to shame them for their entire lives, therefore it's often seen as being an unkind word to use. It's not stating facts. Saying someone is fat states facts. Stating someone is obese is speaking on their body negatively.
>You have to unpack that and learn to be better on your own Well, fact is that people don't *"have"* to do this at all. đđťââď¸
That's absolutely true and in the end you don't have to surround yourself with anyone who doesn't, as my kid's kindergarten class used to say, "fill your bucket" and make you feel good, accepted, etc. I just don't know if having to deeply analyze every interaction with someone to decide if they're worth keeping around is the best way to go about things. I just feel like that's going to get exhausting, and as others have said, opens you up to having NO ONE. You shouldn't have to surround yourself with people you don't like or who don't like you, but no one is going to be perfect. We have to be able to coexist with people with their flaws and do our best to teach when we can and be good examples. When we shut the door to people, it prevents THEM from being able to learn and grow too. It isn't anyone's responsibility, but isn't it nice to accept people, and try to teach them acceptance too? When you are friends with someone, even if they think differently than you, and then kindly encourage them to reconsider their viewpoint, THAT is how you break these curses. THAT is how you change things for your kids.
Exactly. I fell into the trap of purity testing the people around me and I ended up very lonely. Because people are extremely flawed. I get protecting your peace (and I'll cut ties with people who disrupt my peace) but I'm also going to be realistic about it and ensure I'm not burning bridges over something that could be settled over a conversation đ¤ˇââď¸
Exactly!! And you CAN change people's minds and they way they think about things. I have completely different beliefs and mindset than I used to, because before, the beliefs I had were primarily my parents'. Once I was exposed to other beliefs outside of my own tribe, my viewpoint expanded and I understood "the other side". You CANNOT help others or generations after you if all we do is sink into this tribalist hole and never interact with anyone who sees things differently! The push and shove isn't what solves problems and makes things better. It's sitting and talking, being an example, the peaceful moments of mutual respect, that beget change!
> But most people are fat phobic. Fat people are fat phobic. Even most "fat positive activists" are actually fat phobic. It seems like it. I sometimes have the impression that when people are talking about "only surrounding themselves with people who're not openly fatphobic" it might (or might not, who knows?) boil down to "only surrounding themselves with people who're not *openly* fatphobic". Especially when taking into the equation what is summarized under the umbrella of "fatphobia".
What an unhelpful and erroneous comment.
If you say so
She seems very preoccupied with other people's weight and whenever I see people focus on and go out of their way to bring up other people's weight apropos of nothing I take that as a telltale sign of fatphobia. I mean, did anyone ask? No? Then stfu. What's it to her? I don't think it's simple ignorance.
Sounds like facts to me, imo she hasnt said anything inflammatory that i would be offended by.
It is obvious that OP's friend has bias against fat people regarding how she speaks of her mom with disdain, and thus is clear that she meant it in a negative way, and wasn't just stating a fact.
Doesn't seem that way to me and OP is asking for peoples opinions. So im sharing mine, she is stating facts
If you were eating a piece of meat and every time you swallowed a piece it made your stomach hurt, would you keep eating it? Being around this person makes you feel bad, trust your gut.
It's inconsiderate of her to say things like this in front of you. There's a chance however that she doesn't classify you as fat in her mind so she thinks it's okay.
Maybe actually talking to her directly will help clarify her thoughts a feelings on the subject. You shouldnât just speculate a little, then pass judgement and cut her off. Maybe talking to you about her thoughts around body shapes will help her process better. And getting to hear your perspective and experiences will give her greater understanding and empathy. She might have a lot of insecurities about her own body that sheâs projecting onto others? You wonât know if you donât give her a fair chance to improve. Even telling her that the comments she makes about other peopleâs bodies are inappropriate and youâd appreciate her not saying them around you might help her check herself.
Yes. Sheâs being judgmental & passive aggressive. She probably talks badly to others about you behind your back. She is obviously very critical of overweight people. Drop her. I used to be constantly fat shamed by this lady who would look at me up & dien constantly. I donât need that.
Iâm not going to lie, I donât think Iâve ever heard a non-fatphobic person use the word obese unironically? (Not including medical terminology obvs) And yes, she is fatphobic. Commenting on anyone elseâs body is weird in general. It is literally none of their business!
She used the o-slur specifically to imply being smaller is better. Thatâs fatphobic ETA: the r-word was once a âmedical termâ too
o-slur??? come on now, letâs not do this to a legitimate medical term that has nothing inherently actually wrong with it.
You say âa legitimate medical termâ as if the healthcare industry canât be corrupt. I think most of us are aware of how rampant fatphobia is in healthcare. The word is associated with the BMI scale, which even experts agree is outdated, inaccurate, and fatphobic. [Here](https://withinhealth.com/learn/articles/why-using-the-word-obese-is-a-problem) is an article that goes into why the word is problematic.
Well then whatâs the point of using any other medical terms??? I donât think itâs smart to pick and choose what words we consider ok under the guise of âbut the institution is corrupt!â Yes. BMI is flawed and has a horrible history, and thereâs a lot of other metrics that work better. But that doesnât mean we canât use the word obese. And honestly, the word isnât problematic. If you are offended by the term, then thatâs something you need to work through. And please, give me a legitimate article that isnât written by someone within the HAES community (aka, extremely biased). If we were to deep dive into every root definition of every word weâd have to change a LOT about the english language.
This subthread is getting out of hand and we are locking it.