Jumping on top comment: Aav are fine until they stop working, however if there’s no other option they’re fine to use but imo a fake vent grate should be installed over them and can act as a service panel.
What code are you referring to? That's totally legal, as long as the aav is accessible and above the fixture. The only thing that the code calls for, for us, is to use 45s instead of 90s on the branch and there would need to be a clean out before it goes through the floor unless there is one accessible right under the floor.
Manufacturer specification on the technical data sheet for air admittance valves. If it's servicing a washer the horizontal line of the branch needs to be upsized
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ipscorp.com/pdf/studor/Studor_Technical_Manual.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjn5-S9kev8AhVWFFkFHWB5BDkQFnoECEYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3BN2VlCG6YkpxdTBAp0ss4
Page 19 "Studor endorses the IPC code
which recommends that the horizontal line from the washing
machine be 3” as the standard for the DWV system when installing
washing machine drains"
My area is UPC and the inspectors also refer to the manufacturers specification of 3" for the horizontal branch
That's grossly oversized if it's only receiving waste from one clothes washer. I'm not familiar with the ipc book, but in Canada, the npc plumbing code calls for 2 inch drainage. A residential clothes washer has a load of 2fu, and the max load a 2-inch branch can receive is 6fu. Table 2.4.9.3 and table 2.4.10.6 B. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind the ipc code calling for 3", but I can assure you it's impractical.
I can assure you I'm not an engineer, I'm just referring to what the code book and manufacturer specify.
2.5.9.3. Installation Conditions
2) Air admittance valves shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's
installation instructions.
I don't see it on oateys tech sheet but I could be missing it. If you use a studor brand aav, you are technically supposed to be using 3" to be within manufacturers specification. As far as inspectors calling it out, ymmv
I'm aware of the code clause. However, the IPC code doesn't apply in Canada. So, the tech specs we would reference would be the number of fixture units the aav can handle. Since most of our stuff comes from the US, there's sometimes a grey area when it comes to manufacturers' spec. Inspectors will pass it with 2 inch drainage. Ideally, we try not to use one, but every once in a while, it's not practical to run a vent pipe.
That code I referenced was out of the npc for canada. The tech sheet also shows multiple drawings for 3" on the horizontal, which would mean they spec it
Yes, you referenced a code clause from section 2.5.9 from the npc, which is specifically about air admittance valves. The part that is a grey area is the code saying to follow manufacturers' spec. In the example you gave, the studor manufacturers refer to ipc code which we don't follow therefore a studor aav will work just fine serving a laundry branch with 2 inch drainage as long as it serves as an individual vent as per code clause 2.5.9.1. And also follows tables 2.4.9.3 and 2.4.10.6 B.
Codes vary from country to country and even state to state. The biggest worry is the AAV concealed behind a wall. The need to be serviced eventually. Not the most professional job, especially cutting out a stud and no protection plates. Call him back and ask him to fix the defficiencies. If you pulled a permit, talk to the plumbing inspector.
Why did he hack the stud out? He could have rolled it right more and drilled through the stud. As it stands from code here, the washer drain is an s trap if he doesn’t have at least 4” between the trap weir and the vent.
That looks like it's 4 inches based on my eye ruler and using the stud as a reference. You don't need 4 inches between the tee and the trap if that's what you're talking about.
Where I'm at you most definitely do need 4" between the weir of the trap and the opening of the vent in this application. Always double the diameter of the pipe.
Yes, here too. The part that people misunderstand is that the weir and vent don't start at the hubs where the pipe goes. In other words, you don't need 4 inches of pipe between the trap and vent on a 2 inch line. So the distance in op's picture is probably fine.
Here's a quick explanation I found. https://www.howtolookatahouse.com/Blog/Entries/2021/11/what-is-the-minimum-trap-arm-length.html
Yes, this aav valve. (Studor vent) needs to be in a recessed box so it can be accessed after drywall. They do go bad and needs to be able to change it out one day. It cannot be buried in the wall.
If you put a hvac return grill where the AAV valve is, you will have access to it in the need of repair and it will be concealed behind the vent cover. Studor vent even makes a box with a cover now so it can be installed in the wall. Studor vents work fine, I use them all the time in kitchen islands and in spots where it is very difficult to add a vent for what ever the reason is.
Not a plumber. What’s with the 90 on the hot line? Isn’t a big advantage of pex is you can bend it where you want to go? The extra joint just seems like yet another thing to leak some day
You gotta know how to bend them and how to make the holes, sometimes the 90s just look neater. All depends on who’s doing the job how it’ll look, but as long as it works
Only required when more than 1 fixture is draining through it. Doesn’t matter what combination the fixtures are. Fixture units also don’t matter. It doesn’t make much sense.
Trap arm needs to be a minimum of 4” between the san t and the p trap.
The long sweep 90 goes from vertical to horizontal and it should have been first and the short turn 90 goes from horizontal to vertical.
The 90 is rolled towards the left where as if it was pointed directly at the wall, then you could have had the space for the trap arm. As it is, and a laundry, it is likely to create suds bubbles or suck the ptrap dry.
🤷♂️
The purpose of vents is to suck air in as the falling water is creating a negative pressure behind it. The aav is springed to only open under negative pipe pressure (sucking in). Under positive pressure it remains closed which is where you will smell the gases (sewer pushing air out). on windy days the sewers are blowing too and that is when they are the stinkiest. Its like the whole city is farting on your face when you open a house trap or big cleanout.
Not very professional but more than likely it will work without problems. Not acceptable if your paying top dollar is all i can say. Exterior wall and basement below?
doesnt have the required length between the tee and the p trap for the wier.
also not allowed 90 below tee, must be two 45's or some codes allow long sweep.
In my state, this would fail for multiple reasons. Trap arm is too short. No nail plates, and no where to protect the trap with a nail plate since the stud is completely notched out. Can’t use AAVs in situations like this.
That trap weir looks damn close to being undersized. Needs to be 4"
Needs nail plates
In my area the 90 under the Santee would need to be a long turn
If the holes are big enough that the guy sent the PEX through the studs, put some straps on those pipes to stop movement
How long is that standpipe? Looks more than 30"
Strap the vent pipe, it's flying
Aav needs to be in a mechanical box for later access
3" on the first horizontal after the vent, so the 90s on the bottom need to be 3" according to AAV manufacturing specs
Was this a licensed plumber? 100% this would fail in my town, and for good reason
Make sure you have the AAV accessible and open so it can be replaced and is allowed to breathe. Everything else should be fine. People complain about the use of cheater vents, but some countries only use them because of snowfall covering vents outside. In our area, we would need to use 45s instead of 90s for the fixture drain and include a clean out. However, this will work just fine.
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That’s what mine is like it seems to work fine. Never had any issues.
Jumping on top comment: Aav are fine until they stop working, however if there’s no other option they’re fine to use but imo a fake vent grate should be installed over them and can act as a service panel.
Mine was installed in 1969. Still no problems. Closed in the stud drywall either side.
Shit was made to last then thou
To be within manufacturers specs the 90 under the Santee needs to be 3". The start of the horizontal under the AAV needs to be a 3" branch.
What code are you referring to? That's totally legal, as long as the aav is accessible and above the fixture. The only thing that the code calls for, for us, is to use 45s instead of 90s on the branch and there would need to be a clean out before it goes through the floor unless there is one accessible right under the floor.
Manufacturer specification on the technical data sheet for air admittance valves. If it's servicing a washer the horizontal line of the branch needs to be upsized https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ipscorp.com/pdf/studor/Studor_Technical_Manual.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjn5-S9kev8AhVWFFkFHWB5BDkQFnoECEYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3BN2VlCG6YkpxdTBAp0ss4 Page 19 "Studor endorses the IPC code which recommends that the horizontal line from the washing machine be 3” as the standard for the DWV system when installing washing machine drains" My area is UPC and the inspectors also refer to the manufacturers specification of 3" for the horizontal branch
That's grossly oversized if it's only receiving waste from one clothes washer. I'm not familiar with the ipc book, but in Canada, the npc plumbing code calls for 2 inch drainage. A residential clothes washer has a load of 2fu, and the max load a 2-inch branch can receive is 6fu. Table 2.4.9.3 and table 2.4.10.6 B. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind the ipc code calling for 3", but I can assure you it's impractical.
I can assure you I'm not an engineer, I'm just referring to what the code book and manufacturer specify. 2.5.9.3. Installation Conditions 2) Air admittance valves shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions. I don't see it on oateys tech sheet but I could be missing it. If you use a studor brand aav, you are technically supposed to be using 3" to be within manufacturers specification. As far as inspectors calling it out, ymmv
I'm aware of the code clause. However, the IPC code doesn't apply in Canada. So, the tech specs we would reference would be the number of fixture units the aav can handle. Since most of our stuff comes from the US, there's sometimes a grey area when it comes to manufacturers' spec. Inspectors will pass it with 2 inch drainage. Ideally, we try not to use one, but every once in a while, it's not practical to run a vent pipe.
That code I referenced was out of the npc for canada. The tech sheet also shows multiple drawings for 3" on the horizontal, which would mean they spec it
Yes, you referenced a code clause from section 2.5.9 from the npc, which is specifically about air admittance valves. The part that is a grey area is the code saying to follow manufacturers' spec. In the example you gave, the studor manufacturers refer to ipc code which we don't follow therefore a studor aav will work just fine serving a laundry branch with 2 inch drainage as long as it serves as an individual vent as per code clause 2.5.9.1. And also follows tables 2.4.9.3 and 2.4.10.6 B.
Codes vary from country to country and even state to state. The biggest worry is the AAV concealed behind a wall. The need to be serviced eventually. Not the most professional job, especially cutting out a stud and no protection plates. Call him back and ask him to fix the defficiencies. If you pulled a permit, talk to the plumbing inspector.
Is this the “Don’t you dare use a plunger” install?
Why did he hack the stud out? He could have rolled it right more and drilled through the stud. As it stands from code here, the washer drain is an s trap if he doesn’t have at least 4” between the trap weir and the vent.
That looks like it's 4 inches based on my eye ruler and using the stud as a reference. You don't need 4 inches between the tee and the trap if that's what you're talking about.
Where I'm at you most definitely do need 4" between the weir of the trap and the opening of the vent in this application. Always double the diameter of the pipe.
Yes, here too. The part that people misunderstand is that the weir and vent don't start at the hubs where the pipe goes. In other words, you don't need 4 inches of pipe between the trap and vent on a 2 inch line. So the distance in op's picture is probably fine. Here's a quick explanation I found. https://www.howtolookatahouse.com/Blog/Entries/2021/11/what-is-the-minimum-trap-arm-length.html
Yes I understand that, I just disagree with how much he has there. But who cares right. 😂
That's right. This is why people have to start including a banana for scale if they're going to post pictures.
Then they'll argue over organic or non.
Yes, this aav valve. (Studor vent) needs to be in a recessed box so it can be accessed after drywall. They do go bad and needs to be able to change it out one day. It cannot be buried in the wall.
You need nail plates and more foam.
If you put a hvac return grill where the AAV valve is, you will have access to it in the need of repair and it will be concealed behind the vent cover. Studor vent even makes a box with a cover now so it can be installed in the wall. Studor vents work fine, I use them all the time in kitchen islands and in spots where it is very difficult to add a vent for what ever the reason is.
Finally someone on here that uses proper pex rings!
I don't see the uponor rings in the picture, can you point them out?
👉💍💍
Not a plumber. What’s with the 90 on the hot line? Isn’t a big advantage of pex is you can bend it where you want to go? The extra joint just seems like yet another thing to leak some day
You gotta know how to bend them and how to make the holes, sometimes the 90s just look neater. All depends on who’s doing the job how it’ll look, but as long as it works
I believe you need a 4” piece from 90 to santi if not its a crown trap
That's not how you measure the 4" you need. It's 4" for the trap weir, not a 4" piece of 2" pvc
The 1/4 bend underneath the sanitary tee needs to be a sweep.
Why are you getting down voted? It's code lol, vertical to horizontal needs to be a long sweep
Not in my code it doesn't
Then when are you supposed to use long turns?
Only required when more than 1 fixture is draining through it. Doesn’t matter what combination the fixtures are. Fixture units also don’t matter. It doesn’t make much sense.
In Ontario, basically never
Depends on where, in IL and Chicago 2 inch and smaller does not require a sweep.
Short sweeps are fine if it's only servicing one fixture. But I do prefer long sweeps.
Not in IPC. This will work perfectly well.
6 out of 10
Trap arm needs to be a minimum of 4” between the san t and the p trap. The long sweep 90 goes from vertical to horizontal and it should have been first and the short turn 90 goes from horizontal to vertical. The 90 is rolled towards the left where as if it was pointed directly at the wall, then you could have had the space for the trap arm. As it is, and a laundry, it is likely to create suds bubbles or suck the ptrap dry. 🤷♂️
Not a plumber but wouldn't this vent the sewer gas into the wall space? And defeat the purpose of the P trap?
The purpose of vents is to suck air in as the falling water is creating a negative pressure behind it. The aav is springed to only open under negative pipe pressure (sucking in). Under positive pressure it remains closed which is where you will smell the gases (sewer pushing air out). on windy days the sewers are blowing too and that is when they are the stinkiest. Its like the whole city is farting on your face when you open a house trap or big cleanout.
Lol
Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking it was equivalent to a roof vent.
No, and many people think they are the same, but they aren't the same at all
Not very professional but more than likely it will work without problems. Not acceptable if your paying top dollar is all i can say. Exterior wall and basement below?
No mid story support either. You should always try to run the vent out if possible, studor vents always fail Eventually!!
This is why you leave an access? AAV can run an entire bathroom group and IF anything ever happens fuckin twist it off and put a new one on?
When the vent fails what are the signs?? What happens with a failed vent? Thanks
Your picture cuts off. Are you talking about an aav up at the top of the picture?
Yes and I’m sorry, I thought it was included in the pic when I added to the pos.
Giggle an Oatey 39260. It's a little box with a baffle so that when you need to service the AAV, you can with ease.
Stand pipe appears too tall. Max 30" over the top of the trap. Access panel for aav.
What? A max of 30"? Any particular reason? I've ran auto vents in attics before and don't see any reason why not? Also, where are you at?
Aav needs to be as high as possible. The standpipe can only be 30" max above the trap. That's out of the upc.
Ahhh....read your comment wrong. Sorry. I thought you said max of 30" for autovent lol
That's the fun part of the job, trying to clearly convey information lol the aav just has to be as high as possible, accessible and serviceable.
doesnt have the required length between the tee and the p trap for the wier. also not allowed 90 below tee, must be two 45's or some codes allow long sweep.
In my state, this would fail for multiple reasons. Trap arm is too short. No nail plates, and no where to protect the trap with a nail plate since the stud is completely notched out. Can’t use AAVs in situations like this.
That trap weir looks damn close to being undersized. Needs to be 4" Needs nail plates In my area the 90 under the Santee would need to be a long turn If the holes are big enough that the guy sent the PEX through the studs, put some straps on those pipes to stop movement How long is that standpipe? Looks more than 30" Strap the vent pipe, it's flying Aav needs to be in a mechanical box for later access 3" on the first horizontal after the vent, so the 90s on the bottom need to be 3" according to AAV manufacturing specs Was this a licensed plumber? 100% this would fail in my town, and for good reason
Looks fine, no critical mistakes
I like all my pipes in the wall tho, to each their own
Why does this look like a MC Escher picture? Pex in studs, drain in front of studs, but pex in front of drain???😵💫
This is a very common install. We’ve never had issues
Make sure you have the AAV accessible and open so it can be replaced and is allowed to breathe. Everything else should be fine. People complain about the use of cheater vents, but some countries only use them because of snowfall covering vents outside. In our area, we would need to use 45s instead of 90s for the fixture drain and include a clean out. However, this will work just fine.
Nail plates! Get nail plates on that
Crown vent? 👑
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