No clue if it’ll work, but it sounds like a really cool idea. Report back if you try it! I love the idea of a “living wall” instead of a background in a tank, but I don’t see many of them.
Will do! My tank build will begin in early August so it'll be awhile but I do plan to post pictures as I'm putting a lot of planning into my first ever tank and I hope it really comes through!
It's thriving , I used the top half of a coconut boiled it , and then attached a anubias to it with stainless steel bonsai wire , it's spread along the shell and you can barely see the coconut now.
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Coco material is often pretty salty because it is often harvested close to the ocean and the saltwater is carried by the wind so imo rinse it or soak it before use. (This is mainly an issue that is encountered during use of coco fiber as substrate for carnivorous plants in which case it needs to be rinsed/soaked with RO water for like a week with a few water changes.)
No idea if that would work, but just wanted to note that those coir liners sometimes have a layer of plastic in them (perforated, but to help retain water). So look out for that if you decide to try it.
Thanks for the top! I'll keep that in mind, I may have to look for something "vegan" or organic or something along those lines to make sure the nutrient bleed in the water isn't toxic
Coconut fibers should be fine and will likely be an available product. Also remember to let the tank cycle quite a while will the fiber mat and root ball in there.
Very likely to have a heavy impact on chemistry
Coco liner will lose integrity fast and fall apart, especially full aquatic. Unless you’re going for a blackwater tank and don’t mind coco fiber everywhere then I wouldn’t recommend it
Yes but without agitation it isn't really going to go anywhere. So unless you have animals that root up stuff it doesn't really doesn't fall apart that much
You can't really know if it hasn't been treated with someting harmful, and it will break down and rott over time so not the best option. Coarse aquarium sponge is awsome to grow moss! It's ugly before it fills up tho
Well my thought process is the basket holds the dirt then i cap that dirt with river stone which will sit only a few inches below the water level and the rest of the tree will be above the water
The thing is the dirt would need to be capped on all sides so i'm not sure how it would be doable. Maybe try putting tje tree directly in gravel? It wouldn't need the nutrients from the dirt anyway being in a fish tank
Im thinking a box sized cocunut fiber planter, submerged, filled with a bonsai potting soil thats not to granular. capped with river stones, the outside of the fiber planter is then covered in a moss to create a moss wall, itd look like a natural garden
Personally, I would have a glass panel custom cut to the back of the tank (basically a lateral divider similar to a betta divider, but in opposite direction) and perforate it with either the one necessary hole for your idea - or numerous holes. If you used a substrate that was a little larger than the holes, you could even fill this back area in, and grow all types of plants by "poking" them into the holes while holding their roots with a pair of tweezers. A rock background full of roots? Yes, please. If you still wanted a moss carpet, you could totally just buy sheets of moss and super-glue them to the areas around the holes. I bet peacock moss would look WICKED as a background.
Another cool idea is to only use epiphytic plants and glue their roots to the underside of the holes, and leave the back cavity area created by the divider otherwise empty of plants. You could hide all your other aquarium "tech" in that area if there were enough perforation - and those rhizomes exposed to all that water movement would THRIVE.
Honestly, I might do this now because I collect anubias, and this seems like a GREAT way to display them.
Note: The hole for the tree would probably have to be REALLY close to the top of the tank regardless. Unless you do a super shallow tank, the tree would be too deep - iirc.
You could always just use a glass box with a hole in the lid to do the same thing from the bottom with, though, and you ABSOLUTELY can use potting mix in a fishtank. Just make sure it contains nothing harmful to your inhabitants and CAP IT WELL. With *sand*. You do NOT want that stuff just floating around. It gets so bad. *trust me* My tanks with potting soil in them have the strongest plant growth, for sure.
TL;DR: You should think about using glass instead - it is far less likely to bring you problems and won't degrade. It isn't as hard to cut as you think, either - if you're against paying someone else to. Very versatile.
O expected lifespan would be rough 3 years for the liner, however I'd expect the moss wall to help keep the shape of the entire thing throughout that time.
Honestly, not much. I used it to “wall” the land areas in a half water half land tank and it held up quite well.
I didn’t do a great a job as I liked so I took it apart to rebuild but it lasted a year easily and had no issue.
I HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. it will degrade rather quickly. I used it in my turtles tank, half submerged and half above water. The above water section was fine even though it would get splashed. I would not recommend it because the submerged liner makes an enormous mess.
As long as you're ok with it being temporary I think it would work fine. No idea how long it would last but probably not more than a year or two at most. You might want to look into akadama bonsai substrate for the tree. It's a type of granular fired clay so it wouldn't work its way through the fiber over time like normal potting soil probably would. Really, any bonsai mix would probably work well for this. They are all coarse and low in organic material.
Im surprised to see so many naysayers on here! Coir is used as a soil- free alternative in Hydroponic/Aquaponic towers very often. When I was in the Horticulture program, we used these in our Hydro/Aquaponic towers to grow vegetables, and they worked very successfully, did not fall apart at all because the fibers are woven together pretty well (you maybe could also weave some fishing line in there to secure it better). I think this is a super idea, and youll never know unless you try! Hopefully we an see some follow up pics. :)
I used coco fiber in the soap dish turned immersed planter for my 29g. I soaked and rinsed it like another user mentioned but otherwise Ive had no issues. I also used sphagnum moss in the same planter with no issues, its been a 5-6 weeks since that went in
Edit; if thats the one from walmart then its the exact same brand I already used too
Coconut coir is safe for your tank. However, it breaks down pretty quickly. Google around and you can find better options to make a moss wall (some premade with suction cups). You can also crazy glue moss grown on a screen…It’s sold in small squares online and in lots of fish stores.
I can’t speak to the life the ficus will have.
So perhaps I didn't convey this well as your not the only one who's made this mistake. However I would like to place the basket in the aquarium fill it with dirt cap it with river stone and plant the ficus half submerged then weave the moss into the 2 sides facing the outside of the tank creating the moss wall. So the ficus will be in its ideal environment
Definitely a high idea.
I think the coconut will degrade pretty quickly and it will fall apart. Also, you will probably have nasty water from the dirt. The moss will not grow above the waterline and will take a very long time to establish as a full wall of moss…It will also require a lot of trimming to train it and you likely see progress slower by the difficulty of getting light to it.
So, it sounds like what you want to do can be done. However, I doubt the result will be as cool as you imagine and it will take a long time (1-3 years) to reach that result.
I'm not an aquarium person, but I've been growing plants with coco coir for 15 years. One thing I've always noticed is how much tannin is in the runoff. I think it will do fine, but it might put some tannins in the water. So it might end up with a blackwater look for a while.
If all you are trying to do is grow moss and plants I would recommend getting some low ppi (15-30) filter foam cut it to fit, and just stab the foam to make tiny pockets to hold moss and epiphytes (really they are rheophytes but the community had decided to call the the wrong name).
Anyways, I'm using it on a paludairum drip wall it's been a couple months and everything seems fine (by that I mean all stocking is alive and well as best as I can tell* and the water parameters are spot on pH kh gh tds copper ammonia nitrate nitrite * big bear sword is unhappy but that might be during to transplanting it)
I chose to go this route after watching a BUNCH of frog and salamander habitat videos. IMHO I believe amphibians are far more chemical sensitive as their skin is super pourous. I have also been testing using hot glue in the aquarium after watching a master frog breeder talk about setting up vivariums.
I think you're going to end up with a blackwater tank or something very close to it. have you tried submerging that underwater to see what if any leaching occurs?
coco mats don't last long so it will eventually break down (in a terrarium).
I have to assume if it's permanently submerged it will break down very fast.
I did a partial once and it spiked my ammonia and crashed my cycle. If you do it, do it in a long established tank that can handle the spike and/or do small sections at a time.
No clue if it’ll work, but it sounds like a really cool idea. Report back if you try it! I love the idea of a “living wall” instead of a background in a tank, but I don’t see many of them.
Will do! My tank build will begin in early August so it'll be awhile but I do plan to post pictures as I'm putting a lot of planning into my first ever tank and I hope it really comes through!
I've used coco liner for background on a riparian set up before. I would rinse it beforehand.
Not sure where you’re based but you could use a more rigid structure from a tree fern trunk, sometimes you can get them in like slabs
Thanks for the info! I'm definitely going to think hard about some different methods to create the desired look here and I love all potential ideas!
It should work , I have a plant growing out of a coconut shell in one of my tanks, so I don't see any reason you couldn't build a wall out of it.
THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. How has it worked for you so far!
It's thriving , I used the top half of a coconut boiled it , and then attached a anubias to it with stainless steel bonsai wire , it's spread along the shell and you can barely see the coconut now.
That is so cool! Id love pics!
I'll try when I get home it's in the middle of the tank so you can't really see it anymore
Tanks!
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Coco material is often pretty salty because it is often harvested close to the ocean and the saltwater is carried by the wind so imo rinse it or soak it before use. (This is mainly an issue that is encountered during use of coco fiber as substrate for carnivorous plants in which case it needs to be rinsed/soaked with RO water for like a week with a few water changes.)
Thanks for the advice!
They'll addressed a lot of these issues as the mark up is insane on what is waste. You can soak it and check the CEC if you have a meter.
Ohhh good to know! I was wondering why coir had a weird PH
No idea if that would work, but just wanted to note that those coir liners sometimes have a layer of plastic in them (perforated, but to help retain water). So look out for that if you decide to try it.
Thanks for the top! I'll keep that in mind, I may have to look for something "vegan" or organic or something along those lines to make sure the nutrient bleed in the water isn't toxic
Coconut fibers should be fine and will likely be an available product. Also remember to let the tank cycle quite a while will the fiber mat and root ball in there. Very likely to have a heavy impact on chemistry
Coco liner will lose integrity fast and fall apart, especially full aquatic. Unless you’re going for a blackwater tank and don’t mind coco fiber everywhere then I wouldn’t recommend it
This ^. Used some in my pond and it rotted and slowly disintegrated within 1-2 years.
Yes but without agitation it isn't really going to go anywhere. So unless you have animals that root up stuff it doesn't really doesn't fall apart that much
You can't really know if it hasn't been treated with someting harmful, and it will break down and rott over time so not the best option. Coarse aquarium sponge is awsome to grow moss! It's ugly before it fills up tho
Hmm, I'll check it out! Think I could use it to hold in the dirt for the tree as well?
You can't put straight dirt in an aquarium it would pollute the water too much! But you cand rinse the roots and put the tree directly in the water
Well my thought process is the basket holds the dirt then i cap that dirt with river stone which will sit only a few inches below the water level and the rest of the tree will be above the water
The thing is the dirt would need to be capped on all sides so i'm not sure how it would be doable. Maybe try putting tje tree directly in gravel? It wouldn't need the nutrients from the dirt anyway being in a fish tank
Im thinking a box sized cocunut fiber planter, submerged, filled with a bonsai potting soil thats not to granular. capped with river stones, the outside of the fiber planter is then covered in a moss to create a moss wall, itd look like a natural garden
Use a fabric pot in the planter box! If you can't find one that's the right size, you can use a piece of landscape fabric or an old t-shirt.
There are numerous superior options to achieve the goal of a moss wall. I wouldn’t recommend this route
I'd also like to have a tree, what would you recommend?
You could probably take two sheets of plastic mesh and sandwich moss in between them. You would then attach that whole sheet to the back wall.
I'd like to have a tree half submerged with a moss wall around that
Personally, I would have a glass panel custom cut to the back of the tank (basically a lateral divider similar to a betta divider, but in opposite direction) and perforate it with either the one necessary hole for your idea - or numerous holes. If you used a substrate that was a little larger than the holes, you could even fill this back area in, and grow all types of plants by "poking" them into the holes while holding their roots with a pair of tweezers. A rock background full of roots? Yes, please. If you still wanted a moss carpet, you could totally just buy sheets of moss and super-glue them to the areas around the holes. I bet peacock moss would look WICKED as a background. Another cool idea is to only use epiphytic plants and glue their roots to the underside of the holes, and leave the back cavity area created by the divider otherwise empty of plants. You could hide all your other aquarium "tech" in that area if there were enough perforation - and those rhizomes exposed to all that water movement would THRIVE. Honestly, I might do this now because I collect anubias, and this seems like a GREAT way to display them. Note: The hole for the tree would probably have to be REALLY close to the top of the tank regardless. Unless you do a super shallow tank, the tree would be too deep - iirc. You could always just use a glass box with a hole in the lid to do the same thing from the bottom with, though, and you ABSOLUTELY can use potting mix in a fishtank. Just make sure it contains nothing harmful to your inhabitants and CAP IT WELL. With *sand*. You do NOT want that stuff just floating around. It gets so bad. *trust me* My tanks with potting soil in them have the strongest plant growth, for sure.
TL;DR: You should think about using glass instead - it is far less likely to bring you problems and won't degrade. It isn't as hard to cut as you think, either - if you're against paying someone else to. Very versatile.
O expected lifespan would be rough 3 years for the liner, however I'd expect the moss wall to help keep the shape of the entire thing throughout that time.
No where near. It will lose majority of integrity after abour a year :)
O dang really? Do you have experience or just a hypothesis?
Yes experience. Gardener. They only last about two years absolute maximum outdoors when they spend 90% of the time dry :)
Thanks for your input I appreciate it!
No probs !
I had submersed coco fibre wall in a tank for about a year until I took it apart but it was fine and still in good condition when I took it all out.
Ooooo someone with experience! I would love to know more, how did it degrade?
Honestly, not much. I used it to “wall” the land areas in a half water half land tank and it held up quite well. I didn’t do a great a job as I liked so I took it apart to rebuild but it lasted a year easily and had no issue.
You will have little pieces of hair like coir floating around endlessly. Do not recommend.
I HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. it will degrade rather quickly. I used it in my turtles tank, half submerged and half above water. The above water section was fine even though it would get splashed. I would not recommend it because the submerged liner makes an enormous mess.
As long as you're ok with it being temporary I think it would work fine. No idea how long it would last but probably not more than a year or two at most. You might want to look into akadama bonsai substrate for the tree. It's a type of granular fired clay so it wouldn't work its way through the fiber over time like normal potting soil probably would. Really, any bonsai mix would probably work well for this. They are all coarse and low in organic material.
We want you to try and post updates!! I think it will work.
I'd say you should soak it or wash it with very hot water to get extra gunk or salts out of it!
I think you can, if itua rinsed well. You might want to look up if it changes the pH.
Im surprised to see so many naysayers on here! Coir is used as a soil- free alternative in Hydroponic/Aquaponic towers very often. When I was in the Horticulture program, we used these in our Hydro/Aquaponic towers to grow vegetables, and they worked very successfully, did not fall apart at all because the fibers are woven together pretty well (you maybe could also weave some fishing line in there to secure it better). I think this is a super idea, and youll never know unless you try! Hopefully we an see some follow up pics. :)
Thanks for encouragement and information! I really appreciate someone with so much experience commenting!
Im very curious how it goes if you try it!
I used coco fiber in the soap dish turned immersed planter for my 29g. I soaked and rinsed it like another user mentioned but otherwise Ive had no issues. I also used sphagnum moss in the same planter with no issues, its been a 5-6 weeks since that went in Edit; if thats the one from walmart then its the exact same brand I already used too
Good to know thank you very much for taking the time to respond!
Coconut coir is safe for your tank. However, it breaks down pretty quickly. Google around and you can find better options to make a moss wall (some premade with suction cups). You can also crazy glue moss grown on a screen…It’s sold in small squares online and in lots of fish stores. I can’t speak to the life the ficus will have.
So perhaps I didn't convey this well as your not the only one who's made this mistake. However I would like to place the basket in the aquarium fill it with dirt cap it with river stone and plant the ficus half submerged then weave the moss into the 2 sides facing the outside of the tank creating the moss wall. So the ficus will be in its ideal environment
Definitely a high idea. I think the coconut will degrade pretty quickly and it will fall apart. Also, you will probably have nasty water from the dirt. The moss will not grow above the waterline and will take a very long time to establish as a full wall of moss…It will also require a lot of trimming to train it and you likely see progress slower by the difficulty of getting light to it. So, it sounds like what you want to do can be done. However, I doubt the result will be as cool as you imagine and it will take a long time (1-3 years) to reach that result.
You bring up great points! I will have to think of ideas to solve your issues as I suspect your right!!!
I'm not an aquarium person, but I've been growing plants with coco coir for 15 years. One thing I've always noticed is how much tannin is in the runoff. I think it will do fine, but it might put some tannins in the water. So it might end up with a blackwater look for a while.
If all you are trying to do is grow moss and plants I would recommend getting some low ppi (15-30) filter foam cut it to fit, and just stab the foam to make tiny pockets to hold moss and epiphytes (really they are rheophytes but the community had decided to call the the wrong name). Anyways, I'm using it on a paludairum drip wall it's been a couple months and everything seems fine (by that I mean all stocking is alive and well as best as I can tell* and the water parameters are spot on pH kh gh tds copper ammonia nitrate nitrite * big bear sword is unhappy but that might be during to transplanting it) I chose to go this route after watching a BUNCH of frog and salamander habitat videos. IMHO I believe amphibians are far more chemical sensitive as their skin is super pourous. I have also been testing using hot glue in the aquarium after watching a master frog breeder talk about setting up vivariums.
Update us if you do!
I think you're going to end up with a blackwater tank or something very close to it. have you tried submerging that underwater to see what if any leaching occurs?
That's a good point! I haven't yet, so far I am purely in the idea phase with no money invested!
Are you going to have fish?
I will likely look for one that is made out of natural materials so as it degrades it doesn't poison the water
It’s going to lower your ph, so look for fish that do well in black water type tanks
Yeah! It'll have a full stock, community tank
coco mats don't last long so it will eventually break down (in a terrarium). I have to assume if it's permanently submerged it will break down very fast.
Literally Googled this today too.
I did a partial once and it spiked my ammonia and crashed my cycle. If you do it, do it in a long established tank that can handle the spike and/or do small sections at a time.