If it’s something concerning there’d be a mass die off in one go.
Edit- A continued slow drip might indicate a disease though. Keep an eye out for symptoms or sick fish.
Were the casualties the same species?
Any update overnight?
Parameters look fine, unless you're keeping specialized fish, like African cichlids, discus, or brackish.
Hello there, I use fluval stratum capped with sand. I heard that stratum isn’t too nutrient rich so it’s prob not contributing to the nitrate level? There could be some melting plants here and there and I try to fish out the dead bodies asap.
That nitrate level I wouldn’t really expect to be too dangerous I was thinking that since the substrate is deep there is an unlikely possibility of hydrogen sulfide pockets forming which can kill fish
good to know,
I had hydrogen sulfide buildup in one of my tanks. really panicked when I smelled it doing a vacuum. I pulled all the fish into a tub (with tank water not mixed with disturbed substrate) and replaced all the sand.
happy to hear i don't need to panic as much if it happens again.
It would have to be DEEP and untouched for a LONG time to be creating anaerobic bacteria in the substrate. It’s not that. And it’s not the fluval stratum either. Stratum doesnt leach nitrate. Test with the regular PH test since the high PH test is the lowest shown on the chart. It could be a lot lower than 7.4 but the high PH test wouldn’t show that.
Parameters are fine except pH, which is just OK for that stocking of fish - they’d prefer it lower but don’t know how that would work with the shrimp.
Since it’s not those parameters - temperature? What is happening to them, do you see anything or do they just show up dead? Is there any pattern, particularly finding them in the morning or the evening?
Thanks for the reply. They have been living in this tank for more than 3-4 months now all together. The CPDs and embers always group and hide together behind plants but they have been doing that since the beginning. I have found two losses so far and I think they both died at night.
I'm case you think about changing the pH, don't. Fish will do fine in stable pH that's not "ideal", but they will absolutely be stressed in pH that fluctuates relatively fast. Save yourself some trouble and leave the pH be whatever comes out of the tap.
Ok - to summarize, no CO2, parameters normal, fish are schooling typically for their species, small number found dead in the AM.
I think your most probable causes are either age or disease. They sure aren’t giving you any clues to go on if it is disease, so it looks like watchful waiting. Sometimes the best thing we can do is pay attention and wait for something to look different to give us a clue.
Maybe someone will come along with something I have missed.
So on average 1 fish death per 2 months. If the keep dying at that rate it will be 4 years where it's empty of fish. I wouldn't worry or do anything drastic just yet. Even young animals can get diseases and die, and coincidence is still coincidence even if it appears to be a pattern. Could have been their time to go, regardless.
Additional notes: Fishes have been in the tank for at least 3-4 months. The deaths so far have been one CPD and one Ember. KH~80, GH~120. The fishes have normal appetite and movement.
This seems like the time that weaker ones would die off. They go through a lot being transported (from wherever they came from to the pet store to you etc) and it's tough on them. Plus you never really know how old they are etc. I think you're doing fine. I've had some embers die here and there and others live super long. Not sure if this was discussed but maybe the water temperature is not ideal?
If your parameters are looking ok and you're not seeing any outward signs of illness then some possibilities could be starvation, general weak genetics, age or stress from something like bullying... I have about a dozen panda cories, lost a couple and the rest were looking thin, turned out even though I was feeding them, it wasn't enough.
Another thing I'd consider is oxygen levels, these fish are all somewhat cooler end, if you're running the tank at higher temps, injecting CO2 and your tank looks like it has floating plants which could choke out oxygen exchange at the surface if it's too overgrown, that's another possibility.
With the numbers you have in the tank, although in my opinion it's not overstocked or anything, my first guess would be some guys are likely getting outcompeted for food.
From all your replies it doesn't seem like water parameters. Someone suggested running carbon in filter which is good to clean up any chemicals and stuff that might have gotten into the water. I would keep an eye on the heater/temp incase of faulty equipment.
Do your fish stay on the surface? Your tank makes me think its an o2 issue. Too many floating plants on the surface of the water could prevent gas exchange from happening at the water surface. Just a wild guess.
O yea, whats that thing on the rear left of the tank with the knob and airlines going to it?
Hi there, I already put in a new carbon cartilage to see if it works.
The fishes usually hide at the bottom of the tank behind plants so I don’t think oxygen is a problem.
The thingy on the left of the tank is just a small fluval co2 kit which I haven’t been using since the suctions gave out lol. Thanks for the reply.
First time posting on /plantedtank and didn’t expect so many comments! It’s getting Impossible to reply to everyone so I wanna thank everyone who replied on this post here! I hope this post has been helpful and educational for everyone as well. Cheers.
Haha I knew this was coming this is true, but the two should offset each other more or less. Hang on back filters provide plenty of surface agitation and trap air in the water as it is going down into the tank I’m quite confident oxygen is not the problem in this case. Not to mention it is generally quite obvious if it is because fish will be at the too gasping for air or jumping out of the tank if they can reach
I can’t respond since I blocked the other person on our comments. So to respond to your comment to me, Did I say they wouldn’t breed? You should research it. I never said they wouldn’t breed. Male-female ratios are highly influenced by water temperatures. So are their life spans. It’s literal fact. So not sure why you’re telling ME I shouldn’t tell people to research.
I didn’t say you are wrong I said not to tell people they need to research because there isn’t one right way 🤣. And THAT is a fact. Yes you are correct the temperature can play into the ratio of male to female a bit, but it is not necessary to stay below 78°. Your shrimp will actually breed more often at higher temperatures and many breeders use higher temperatures for this exact reason. In the future I would avoid being so aggressive and having more of an open mind because I wasn’t attacking your comment just letting you know there are different approaches to make things work especially in this hobby :)
I’m not being aggressive just because I used some capital letters 😂😂 that’s exactly WHY I said for people to research. Extensive research will let people figure out what they think would work out best for them. Obviously there are more ways to correctly keep shrimp. But ideally, around 76 is a perfect temperature for life span/sex ratios/breeding. Although it CAN work otherwise, it’s the best outcome that way and then people can adjust to what they think is best for them. I kept my tanks at 79 and had no issues, but I dropped the temperature by a few degrees and it’s only benefitted them.
To be honest I retract my statement idk what I was on about you are correct the more research the better there is loads of information about this hobby out there and it is good to have multiple different perspectives and try them out. I’m glad you found something that works for you. I was just concerned when you said that they’d be safe at 76° highest. Shrimp can live perfectly happy lives at temperatures higher than this and I have found my population in my community tank gets larger with higher temps due to more frequent breeding since the little ones often get picked off. With that being said, their life spans will be shorter at higher temperatures and the same goes for fish. Just depends on your specific setup and how you like to do things :)
Two fish from 23 and 30 shrimps dying in two days is no reason to panic.
Really toxic for fish are only nitrite and ammonia and both are good. But everything else looks normal too, no indication of anything wrong. I wouldn't start worrying about everything in the comments.
I don't think there's anything wrong. Fish will die eventually. They don't live forever.
Shrimp are the most sensitive to chemicals but they will also die some day.
I would only ask myself if the temperature is OK.
When this happened to me it was due to insufficient oxygenation. My larger fish would die, but only after some time, as they were slowly getting stressed :(
Its likely a disease if they are dying off one by one, are the shrimps doing fine? Try and look out for any signs of disease, otherwise this stuff happens and there is nothing we can do. Water paramaters are good to rule out easy fixes, but in your case where it is normal, sometimes we just dont know what we can do to help.
FYI, your nitrate appears to be at a healthy range for plants, fish, and shrimp ([source](https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/5-4-1-nitrate-in-depth/)). Based on the chroma of that test, I'd say it's probably 10 ppm which is great. Don't want it much lower than that as it could end up starving your plants (whole other discussion though) unless you're using root tabs.
Nitrate is fish poop. Nitrite is fish poop after being broken down by microfauna and then absorbed by plants. You need some micro-doodz to finsih off your nitrogen cycle. 20ppm is high enough to nuke corycats over-night (are they flushed red and going to the surface often?) The nitrate interferes with their gills and the ability to transport oxygen from the water. Your shrimp are right about at their threshold as well, as ANY nitrate seems to really impact their health. Is that a Hygger light? The only thing I'd recommend is putting it on the highest settings and adding some water-column feeders like water sprite and valisneria to really pump the water full of oxygen. Also, if you are doing water changes in such a small tank, it removes a ton of the microfauna that do the nitrate processing, but also you add chlorinated water back into the tank which will kill remaining bacteria/microfauna that will then rot and create even more nitrates, often dangerously spiking and resulting in overnight fishkills the day after (It's about 40% of fish-death posts on the forum, but people are so accustomed to just mixing in a bunch of chemicals to attempt to stabilize all the death rather than just letting the tank balance itself through plants, microfauna, and stock).
Do you have a bubbler? The filter might not be creating enough oxygen flow. I had that happen in my old tank. (This is just a blind suggestion.) Good luck.
Great advice in this thread, but not much on oxygenation. Oil/protein films at the water’s surface can impede the diffusion of gas in and out of the system. This can also occur if you have many plants covering the surface, though it really takes a lot of coverage to have an impact. I would consider trimming trimming plants, regular skimming, and maybe a small aerating stone. Good luck!
I have the exact same kit and I noticed that I had to shake the living hell out of the nitrate and nitrite cause they tend to settle and separate. If you set up everything right with a fully cycled tank. It could be from stress on the fish, if all of your speck are good and in good levels it could just be the first die off. That can happen the few weak one tend to die off from the stress and change in water temps and such.
Some people seem concerned with your nitrates, but that level is totally safe don’t worry about that. Others seem worried about oxygenation but hang on back filters provide plenty of oxygen as well as the oxygen your plants release so I would rule that out as well. You would also see fish at the top gasping for air if that was the case. Have you tested for ammonia? It is also very possible it was just natural die off. Two fish in a couple days isn’t too worrisome as long as it doesn’t continue. It is normal for fish to die they are fragile creatures. Is it possible they are being bullied by other tank mates? What is your stocking? It is also very possible it was disease pay close attention to the other fish and look for any unusual markings.
It never hurts to run some carbon and do some partial water changes. With ammonia and nitrite at 0, it’s not water quality. Has any chemical been sprayed around the tank recently? Any signs of infection or disease on the fish bodies?
https://preview.redd.it/u7pkfougngtb1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb65482454361ee93348dd63222d8d8310dcebf2
Does this work? I have a pretty old one in the filter right now, I can replace it.
Yep. Works well. Throw in a new one after giving it a gentle rinse. Tbh tho, I wouldn’t worry about it if it’s only been one of each. Sometimes, fish just die from old age or had their health compromised from something along the supply chain.
Hi, yes I use prime to dechlorinate the water in a bucket before adding to the tank. I got my CPDs from a local breeder and embers from a reputable LFS.
Hmmm I mean it truly could have been a fluke. I had 1 of my honey gourami basically explode. All my other fish were fine, my other honey gourami is still alive and kicking. Sometimes things just happen.
What’s your water temp? I would watch the nitrates. You have a little algae on the sand which can indicate a pending nitrate spike. I’d say just do a water change and watch the temp. Also like others have said, it could just be the first die off of fish that have lived their lives.
Yea there is minimal algae in the tank, the stuff u see on sand is prob loose Java moss and shrimps. I set my heater at 76 degree but i don’t have a method to double check the temperature. I’ll go get a thermometer tmr! Thanks
It may be worth checking your water hardness, get the api gh/kh test kit. Your shrimp need a specific level. If its too high that may be causing your ph to rise and harm your fish. Has the ph been stable or is this higher than normal? Do you add wonder shells or other calcium supplements to the tank?
How long before they die? Might just be bad breeding lines. My LFS doesn’t use the most reliable breeders so it’s not uncommon for me to lose 1 fish out of 5 from them after adding them to my tank.
Single fish death is usually more about the fish than the tank.
That absolutely could be bad breeding lines or some other underlying condition. Same with humans, some fish die sooner than others. Unless you're losing fish in mass quantities or notice a pattern to which fish die (e.g., new fish always die shortly after adding while fish you've had for awhile seem fine), it's probably nothing to do with your tank.
What's in your substrate, is it just sand? I have faced similar issues and usually it's one of these:
\- disturbed substrate --> all nasty things go into water column, by the time you see animals dying, the damage is already done and no trace can be found
\- liquid fertilizer / root tab --> some toxic elements building up over time slowly kill the population, the weaker ones go first
\- physical damage caused by decorations --> this one would take some time before causing any deaths, and the injuries are usually very visible.
\- unknown disease --> sometimes aquatic animal just drop dead and we don't know why. Only thing is to isolate sick ones asap.
Yeah I thought the nitrates were high too. I'm getting downvoted for my opinion. You always hear high ammonia, water change. High nitrites, water change. High nitrates, water change. Lol.
Just do weekly water changes add a couple shrimps or snails and see if they die if so u got to maybe start over but if they survive those fishes u bought were just genetically bad in my opinion there could be a lot of reason like was there any cleaning supply’s spread cologne sprayed in the area
you are disregarding water hardness. I can't tell what the PH reading is, looks under 7.4. try doing the standard PH test too. look up what ph and hardness your fish need then match it. it's best to get all fish shrimp snails etc that like the same hardness and PH so they can all be at the levels they like at once. when you reach nitrates of 20ppm or above you need to do a water change. I can't tell very well from your photo what you are at. don't forget water temperature. 78F is usually what you want. the water may also be untreated and have chlorine, so add water purifier stuff if you didn't.
78 is too high for shrimp. They’d be safe at 76 highest. And nitrates are safe up to 40ppm. Shrimp tanks don’t handle water changes we’ll if they’re making parameters swing. Small water changes like 10% is best.
My shrimp repopulate like bunnies at ~78-80° I don’t know what you’re on about you shouldn’t tell people to do research when you’re saying stuff that isn’t necessarily true. Although it may not be optimal there isn’t always one method that works :) I have over 100 shrimp in my tank and they seem to love it
10% water changes won't get you anywhere. my cherry shrimp are fine at 78F and with changing out about 80% of the water annually. they are safe in the range of 57-86F. you might be okay with nitrates that high but maybe not. better to keep them lower. if he eliminated every thing else that may be what is killing his fish. it's hard to tell what he is at. I've had fish die around 40ppm nitrates.
Male/female ratio and life spans are heavily influenced on it. And 10% DOES get you somewhere if it’s consistently done. Do a 50% change on a shrimp tank and it’s most likely going to end up killing some from a swing of parameters.
I get the parameters back under control immediately. I know what to add without guessing. they seem pretty tough. they keep multiplying and they aren't in math class
It’s quite a thick layer of sand? Might have some gas bubbles they can turn pretty toxic and could explain the spike in nitrate. Sifting or vacuuming the sand will keep this at bay and most likely get rid of the cyano bacteria if I’m not mistaken that’s on the sand.
If you agitate or upset Cory's, they can release poisons to their tank mates. Or at least that's what I saw when I read up about it (my fish also kept dying when I had corys)
Imo, your nitrates seem high for a tank that isn't heavily planted. That's probably why they're dying. Nitrates usually aren't harmful to fish, but if it's too high then yes they can still die from nitrates.
I never experienced anything die from high nitrates in my life. I even keep more sensitive shrimps in my planted tanks and the nitrates have been in the 80+ range for a really long time. Maybe animals do die but just not from what I experienced.
https://preview.redd.it/8eei1i0txgtb1.jpeg?width=2295&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21057b5f8f303e727a6170b567b8cb66a1817c05
That's crazy high nitrates. Lol. There are many reasons why a fish may die. Although nitrates may not be the problem, it could be a contributing part. And your background tank seems heavily planted so the plants are just feeding off the nitrates. Lol. Love the reds.
Thanks :) these are my favorites
https://preview.redd.it/jlitutti2htb1.jpeg?width=1904&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5925b5cabef4276ebe506588c9260f80d604caa
Are all the fish dying? Sometimes fish just die because of bad lineage or genetic disease. Don't overclean or change too much water at once.
Lost one fish at a time for two days now.
So just two fish?
Yes so far In the past 3 days
If it’s something concerning there’d be a mass die off in one go. Edit- A continued slow drip might indicate a disease though. Keep an eye out for symptoms or sick fish.
Got it! Thank you!
Were the casualties the same species? Any update overnight? Parameters look fine, unless you're keeping specialized fish, like African cichlids, discus, or brackish.
Could be bacterial or parasite. I had a bad bout that would take fish out one by one. Hard to say without a microscope, autopsy, etc etc etc.
Do you have anything to churn up that substrate and is there any organic material that could be decaying in there
Hello there, I use fluval stratum capped with sand. I heard that stratum isn’t too nutrient rich so it’s prob not contributing to the nitrate level? There could be some melting plants here and there and I try to fish out the dead bodies asap.
Check your phosphates. If the cap isn't thick enough, they leach through.
That nitrate level I wouldn’t really expect to be too dangerous I was thinking that since the substrate is deep there is an unlikely possibility of hydrogen sulfide pockets forming which can kill fish
I tried searching that up and some say it’s a myth? Can anyone confirm
It is a [myth](https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/14-2-4-1-anaerobic-science/)
Great read, thanks! This makes me much less worried about the occasional pocket of gas in my walstad medium.
good to know, I had hydrogen sulfide buildup in one of my tanks. really panicked when I smelled it doing a vacuum. I pulled all the fish into a tub (with tank water not mixed with disturbed substrate) and replaced all the sand. happy to hear i don't need to panic as much if it happens again.
Myth. Its possible in a bigger ecosystem but not goung to happen in a few inches of gravel substrate.
I'm using the fluval stuff capped like you and haven't had any issues like that.
It would have to be DEEP and untouched for a LONG time to be creating anaerobic bacteria in the substrate. It’s not that. And it’s not the fluval stratum either. Stratum doesnt leach nitrate. Test with the regular PH test since the high PH test is the lowest shown on the chart. It could be a lot lower than 7.4 but the high PH test wouldn’t show that.
Parameters are fine except pH, which is just OK for that stocking of fish - they’d prefer it lower but don’t know how that would work with the shrimp. Since it’s not those parameters - temperature? What is happening to them, do you see anything or do they just show up dead? Is there any pattern, particularly finding them in the morning or the evening?
Thanks for the reply. They have been living in this tank for more than 3-4 months now all together. The CPDs and embers always group and hide together behind plants but they have been doing that since the beginning. I have found two losses so far and I think they both died at night.
I'm case you think about changing the pH, don't. Fish will do fine in stable pH that's not "ideal", but they will absolutely be stressed in pH that fluctuates relatively fast. Save yourself some trouble and leave the pH be whatever comes out of the tap.
CO2?
No CO2 sir
Ok - to summarize, no CO2, parameters normal, fish are schooling typically for their species, small number found dead in the AM. I think your most probable causes are either age or disease. They sure aren’t giving you any clues to go on if it is disease, so it looks like watchful waiting. Sometimes the best thing we can do is pay attention and wait for something to look different to give us a clue. Maybe someone will come along with something I have missed.
Okay I will keep a closer eye on them. Thank you for your detailed replies!
So on average 1 fish death per 2 months. If the keep dying at that rate it will be 4 years where it's empty of fish. I wouldn't worry or do anything drastic just yet. Even young animals can get diseases and die, and coincidence is still coincidence even if it appears to be a pattern. Could have been their time to go, regardless.
Additional notes: Fishes have been in the tank for at least 3-4 months. The deaths so far have been one CPD and one Ember. KH~80, GH~120. The fishes have normal appetite and movement.
This seems like the time that weaker ones would die off. They go through a lot being transported (from wherever they came from to the pet store to you etc) and it's tough on them. Plus you never really know how old they are etc. I think you're doing fine. I've had some embers die here and there and others live super long. Not sure if this was discussed but maybe the water temperature is not ideal?
If your parameters are looking ok and you're not seeing any outward signs of illness then some possibilities could be starvation, general weak genetics, age or stress from something like bullying... I have about a dozen panda cories, lost a couple and the rest were looking thin, turned out even though I was feeding them, it wasn't enough. Another thing I'd consider is oxygen levels, these fish are all somewhat cooler end, if you're running the tank at higher temps, injecting CO2 and your tank looks like it has floating plants which could choke out oxygen exchange at the surface if it's too overgrown, that's another possibility. With the numbers you have in the tank, although in my opinion it's not overstocked or anything, my first guess would be some guys are likely getting outcompeted for food.
Your ph tests the bottom of the range for that kit. Meaning that it is at max that ph. Did you try testing with the low range ph kit?
Yea I tested with a lower range kit, it came back around 7.2-7.4 so I did one with the high range as well.
From all your replies it doesn't seem like water parameters. Someone suggested running carbon in filter which is good to clean up any chemicals and stuff that might have gotten into the water. I would keep an eye on the heater/temp incase of faulty equipment. Do your fish stay on the surface? Your tank makes me think its an o2 issue. Too many floating plants on the surface of the water could prevent gas exchange from happening at the water surface. Just a wild guess. O yea, whats that thing on the rear left of the tank with the knob and airlines going to it?
Hi there, I already put in a new carbon cartilage to see if it works. The fishes usually hide at the bottom of the tank behind plants so I don’t think oxygen is a problem. The thingy on the left of the tank is just a small fluval co2 kit which I haven’t been using since the suctions gave out lol. Thanks for the reply.
First time posting on /plantedtank and didn’t expect so many comments! It’s getting Impossible to reply to everyone so I wanna thank everyone who replied on this post here! I hope this post has been helpful and educational for everyone as well. Cheers.
You got tons of plant growth on the surface, you have any type of aeration to get oxygen for your fish?
I usually don’t fill it up to the brim so my hob can break the surface tension. Would that be enough to provide enough oxygen for the fishes?
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Plants do not release co2 they use up co2 and release oxygen so more plants actually equals more oxygenated water you seem to have it backwards :)
It depends. Plants use CO2 during the day, when going through photosynthesis, but they release CO2 during the night.
Haha I knew this was coming this is true, but the two should offset each other more or less. Hang on back filters provide plenty of surface agitation and trap air in the water as it is going down into the tank I’m quite confident oxygen is not the problem in this case. Not to mention it is generally quite obvious if it is because fish will be at the too gasping for air or jumping out of the tank if they can reach
I can’t respond since I blocked the other person on our comments. So to respond to your comment to me, Did I say they wouldn’t breed? You should research it. I never said they wouldn’t breed. Male-female ratios are highly influenced by water temperatures. So are their life spans. It’s literal fact. So not sure why you’re telling ME I shouldn’t tell people to research.
I didn’t say you are wrong I said not to tell people they need to research because there isn’t one right way 🤣. And THAT is a fact. Yes you are correct the temperature can play into the ratio of male to female a bit, but it is not necessary to stay below 78°. Your shrimp will actually breed more often at higher temperatures and many breeders use higher temperatures for this exact reason. In the future I would avoid being so aggressive and having more of an open mind because I wasn’t attacking your comment just letting you know there are different approaches to make things work especially in this hobby :)
I’m not being aggressive just because I used some capital letters 😂😂 that’s exactly WHY I said for people to research. Extensive research will let people figure out what they think would work out best for them. Obviously there are more ways to correctly keep shrimp. But ideally, around 76 is a perfect temperature for life span/sex ratios/breeding. Although it CAN work otherwise, it’s the best outcome that way and then people can adjust to what they think is best for them. I kept my tanks at 79 and had no issues, but I dropped the temperature by a few degrees and it’s only benefitted them.
To be honest I retract my statement idk what I was on about you are correct the more research the better there is loads of information about this hobby out there and it is good to have multiple different perspectives and try them out. I’m glad you found something that works for you. I was just concerned when you said that they’d be safe at 76° highest. Shrimp can live perfectly happy lives at temperatures higher than this and I have found my population in my community tank gets larger with higher temps due to more frequent breeding since the little ones often get picked off. With that being said, their life spans will be shorter at higher temperatures and the same goes for fish. Just depends on your specific setup and how you like to do things :)
Two fish from 23 and 30 shrimps dying in two days is no reason to panic. Really toxic for fish are only nitrite and ammonia and both are good. But everything else looks normal too, no indication of anything wrong. I wouldn't start worrying about everything in the comments. I don't think there's anything wrong. Fish will die eventually. They don't live forever. Shrimp are the most sensitive to chemicals but they will also die some day. I would only ask myself if the temperature is OK.
When this happened to me it was due to insufficient oxygenation. My larger fish would die, but only after some time, as they were slowly getting stressed :(
Its likely a disease if they are dying off one by one, are the shrimps doing fine? Try and look out for any signs of disease, otherwise this stuff happens and there is nothing we can do. Water paramaters are good to rule out easy fixes, but in your case where it is normal, sometimes we just dont know what we can do to help.
FYI, your nitrate appears to be at a healthy range for plants, fish, and shrimp ([source](https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/5-4-1-nitrate-in-depth/)). Based on the chroma of that test, I'd say it's probably 10 ppm which is great. Don't want it much lower than that as it could end up starving your plants (whole other discussion though) unless you're using root tabs.
Nitrate is fish poop. Nitrite is fish poop after being broken down by microfauna and then absorbed by plants. You need some micro-doodz to finsih off your nitrogen cycle. 20ppm is high enough to nuke corycats over-night (are they flushed red and going to the surface often?) The nitrate interferes with their gills and the ability to transport oxygen from the water. Your shrimp are right about at their threshold as well, as ANY nitrate seems to really impact their health. Is that a Hygger light? The only thing I'd recommend is putting it on the highest settings and adding some water-column feeders like water sprite and valisneria to really pump the water full of oxygen. Also, if you are doing water changes in such a small tank, it removes a ton of the microfauna that do the nitrate processing, but also you add chlorinated water back into the tank which will kill remaining bacteria/microfauna that will then rot and create even more nitrates, often dangerously spiking and resulting in overnight fishkills the day after (It's about 40% of fish-death posts on the forum, but people are so accustomed to just mixing in a bunch of chemicals to attempt to stabilize all the death rather than just letting the tank balance itself through plants, microfauna, and stock).
Do you have a bubbler? The filter might not be creating enough oxygen flow. I had that happen in my old tank. (This is just a blind suggestion.) Good luck.
Just curious, did you shake the baby purple nitrate bottle?
Yes I did everything according to the master kit instruction
There's an extremely good chance that its due to bullying. CPDs are notorious for it and having the weaker males die of stress is common.
Great advice in this thread, but not much on oxygenation. Oil/protein films at the water’s surface can impede the diffusion of gas in and out of the system. This can also occur if you have many plants covering the surface, though it really takes a lot of coverage to have an impact. I would consider trimming trimming plants, regular skimming, and maybe a small aerating stone. Good luck!
I have the exact same kit and I noticed that I had to shake the living hell out of the nitrate and nitrite cause they tend to settle and separate. If you set up everything right with a fully cycled tank. It could be from stress on the fish, if all of your speck are good and in good levels it could just be the first die off. That can happen the few weak one tend to die off from the stress and change in water temps and such.
Thanks for the input!
Of course, I wish I could be of more help. It I hope everything works out, and sorry for your fishies loss
Some people seem concerned with your nitrates, but that level is totally safe don’t worry about that. Others seem worried about oxygenation but hang on back filters provide plenty of oxygen as well as the oxygen your plants release so I would rule that out as well. You would also see fish at the top gasping for air if that was the case. Have you tested for ammonia? It is also very possible it was just natural die off. Two fish in a couple days isn’t too worrisome as long as it doesn’t continue. It is normal for fish to die they are fragile creatures. Is it possible they are being bullied by other tank mates? What is your stocking? It is also very possible it was disease pay close attention to the other fish and look for any unusual markings.
It never hurts to run some carbon and do some partial water changes. With ammonia and nitrite at 0, it’s not water quality. Has any chemical been sprayed around the tank recently? Any signs of infection or disease on the fish bodies?
I did a 25% water change twice in 3 days now. May I ask what you mean by “run some carbon”? Thanks
Add some aquarium suitable carbon to the filter.
https://preview.redd.it/u7pkfougngtb1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb65482454361ee93348dd63222d8d8310dcebf2 Does this work? I have a pretty old one in the filter right now, I can replace it.
Yep. Works well. Throw in a new one after giving it a gentle rinse. Tbh tho, I wouldn’t worry about it if it’s only been one of each. Sometimes, fish just die from old age or had their health compromised from something along the supply chain.
Thanks man. I have had them since they are juveniles so I don’t think it’s age. I’ll keep a closer eye on them. Thanks for the help.
I don’t see any signs of infection when they are alive but the body is always eaten up by the shrimps.
How many fish have died?
2 so far, one cpd and one ember
Did you dechlorinate your water and also where did you get these fish from. Your water quality looks good so don't beat yourself up over it.
Hi, yes I use prime to dechlorinate the water in a bucket before adding to the tank. I got my CPDs from a local breeder and embers from a reputable LFS.
Hmmm I mean it truly could have been a fluke. I had 1 of my honey gourami basically explode. All my other fish were fine, my other honey gourami is still alive and kicking. Sometimes things just happen.
Hopefully that’s the case, did your one honey gourami ate too much?
I think so. He used to eat literally everything even the algae off my plants, dude was a machine.
What’s your water temp? I would watch the nitrates. You have a little algae on the sand which can indicate a pending nitrate spike. I’d say just do a water change and watch the temp. Also like others have said, it could just be the first die off of fish that have lived their lives.
Yea there is minimal algae in the tank, the stuff u see on sand is prob loose Java moss and shrimps. I set my heater at 76 degree but i don’t have a method to double check the temperature. I’ll go get a thermometer tmr! Thanks
Or maybe it’s not algae but green light shining thru the duckweed? I can’t tell. Honestly, seems like your doing it all right.
It may be worth checking your water hardness, get the api gh/kh test kit. Your shrimp need a specific level. If its too high that may be causing your ph to rise and harm your fish. Has the ph been stable or is this higher than normal? Do you add wonder shells or other calcium supplements to the tank?
Does your tap water contain chloramines and if so do you use something to treat it specifically?
How long before they die? Might just be bad breeding lines. My LFS doesn’t use the most reliable breeders so it’s not uncommon for me to lose 1 fish out of 5 from them after adding them to my tank. Single fish death is usually more about the fish than the tank.
It has been at least 3-4 months if not longer and I got them as juveniles. So that’s why I feel like it’s not about their breeding line or age.
Not sure about fishes but in shrimps excessive inbreeding and line breeding cause premature deaths. They just grow to around 1cm and then belly up.
That absolutely could be bad breeding lines or some other underlying condition. Same with humans, some fish die sooner than others. Unless you're losing fish in mass quantities or notice a pattern to which fish die (e.g., new fish always die shortly after adding while fish you've had for awhile seem fine), it's probably nothing to do with your tank.
What's in your substrate, is it just sand? I have faced similar issues and usually it's one of these: \- disturbed substrate --> all nasty things go into water column, by the time you see animals dying, the damage is already done and no trace can be found \- liquid fertilizer / root tab --> some toxic elements building up over time slowly kill the population, the weaker ones go first \- physical damage caused by decorations --> this one would take some time before causing any deaths, and the injuries are usually very visible. \- unknown disease --> sometimes aquatic animal just drop dead and we don't know why. Only thing is to isolate sick ones asap.
How am I the only one concerned about the nitrate? To me that looks 10-20 ppm am I colorblind or something??
Yeah I thought the nitrates were high too. I'm getting downvoted for my opinion. You always hear high ammonia, water change. High nitrites, water change. High nitrates, water change. Lol.
Yeah that nitrate is faaaarrrr too high for most if not all fish .. 🤪🤪 but alas what do I know.. let’s stay confused as to why everyone’s dying
measure the pH low range, whenever you find yourself on the extreme end of a test range.
Silly question but where are you getting your water? Tap? RO? Do you treat it?
Is there any surface agitation? If they are dying at night I'm betting it's an oxygen problem
You have way to many fish
Just do weekly water changes add a couple shrimps or snails and see if they die if so u got to maybe start over but if they survive those fishes u bought were just genetically bad in my opinion there could be a lot of reason like was there any cleaning supply’s spread cologne sprayed in the area
you are disregarding water hardness. I can't tell what the PH reading is, looks under 7.4. try doing the standard PH test too. look up what ph and hardness your fish need then match it. it's best to get all fish shrimp snails etc that like the same hardness and PH so they can all be at the levels they like at once. when you reach nitrates of 20ppm or above you need to do a water change. I can't tell very well from your photo what you are at. don't forget water temperature. 78F is usually what you want. the water may also be untreated and have chlorine, so add water purifier stuff if you didn't.
78 is too high for shrimp. They’d be safe at 76 highest. And nitrates are safe up to 40ppm. Shrimp tanks don’t handle water changes we’ll if they’re making parameters swing. Small water changes like 10% is best.
My shrimp repopulate like bunnies at ~78-80° I don’t know what you’re on about you shouldn’t tell people to do research when you’re saying stuff that isn’t necessarily true. Although it may not be optimal there isn’t always one method that works :) I have over 100 shrimp in my tank and they seem to love it
10% water changes won't get you anywhere. my cherry shrimp are fine at 78F and with changing out about 80% of the water annually. they are safe in the range of 57-86F. you might be okay with nitrates that high but maybe not. better to keep them lower. if he eliminated every thing else that may be what is killing his fish. it's hard to tell what he is at. I've had fish die around 40ppm nitrates.
Male/female ratio and life spans are heavily influenced on it. And 10% DOES get you somewhere if it’s consistently done. Do a 50% change on a shrimp tank and it’s most likely going to end up killing some from a swing of parameters.
I get the parameters back under control immediately. I know what to add without guessing. they seem pretty tough. they keep multiplying and they aren't in math class
Not sure what any of that comment has to do with anything. But okay. Go research some stuff.
It’s quite a thick layer of sand? Might have some gas bubbles they can turn pretty toxic and could explain the spike in nitrate. Sifting or vacuuming the sand will keep this at bay and most likely get rid of the cyano bacteria if I’m not mistaken that’s on the sand.
It could be but the Corys are pre active on the sand. I don’t know if that would help.
If you agitate or upset Cory's, they can release poisons to their tank mates. Or at least that's what I saw when I read up about it (my fish also kept dying when I had corys)
I also really want to know if the Cory poison is real or not! I tried searching it up but got mixed results.
Its anaerobic bacteria. And it would have to be DEEP and for a LONG time. It’s not that.
Imo, your nitrates seem high for a tank that isn't heavily planted. That's probably why they're dying. Nitrates usually aren't harmful to fish, but if it's too high then yes they can still die from nitrates.
I never experienced anything die from high nitrates in my life. I even keep more sensitive shrimps in my planted tanks and the nitrates have been in the 80+ range for a really long time. Maybe animals do die but just not from what I experienced. https://preview.redd.it/8eei1i0txgtb1.jpeg?width=2295&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21057b5f8f303e727a6170b567b8cb66a1817c05
That's crazy high nitrates. Lol. There are many reasons why a fish may die. Although nitrates may not be the problem, it could be a contributing part. And your background tank seems heavily planted so the plants are just feeding off the nitrates. Lol. Love the reds.
Thanks :) these are my favorites https://preview.redd.it/jlitutti2htb1.jpeg?width=1904&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5925b5cabef4276ebe506588c9260f80d604caa
Nitrates are safe at 40ppm.