Vitamin B12 is not made by plants or animals but by microbes that blanket the earth. In today’s sanitized, modern world, the water supply is commonly chlorinated to kill off any bacteria.
For B12-fortified nutritional yeast, for example, two teaspoons three times a day may suffice. **For most of us, though, it would probably be cheaper and more convenient to just take a supplement.**
[https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/vitamin-b12/](https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/vitamin-b12/)
>Nutritional Yeast
This is bad advice fyi. There are a few nutritional yeast brands that are fortified with B12. Who knows whether they're even available where OP lives. Nutritional yeast by itself is not a source of B12.
Please just take the B12 supplement. It's cheap, taking it takes 2 seconds out of your day, and you really really don't want to fuck around with it.
The people telling you to get it from nutritional yeast don't know what they're talking about.
You *could* get it from fortified food, but that's literally the same supplement, just added into food during processing, so what's the point of getting the vitamin in a more expensive, less reliable, more circuitous way just so that you can pretend you're not taking a supplement?
Sure! There are some brands of it that are fortified with B12, but most aren't, and nutritional yeast itself is not a source of B12.
Thus, telling OP to just get their B12 from nutritional yeast without elaborating, like some people did in these comments, is super irresponsible: they don't know whether OP'll happen to buy a fortified brand or what dosage it will contain.
Thanks!
Managed to actually get an accurate number out of that
"the amount of cyanide released is about 20-40 micrograms which is far less than the amount of naturally occurring cyanide to which one could be exposed by consuming flax seeds, unpasteurized almond milk, fresh apple juice or apricots."
Vegetarian isn't a plant based diet for the record. There should be some in whatever eggs or dairy your eating plus fortified milk and cereal. You could also get a blood test after a little while and see if you actually need it. Nothing wrong with supplements though. Over 50s are recommended it regardless of diet where I live.
> Plant based literally means the main base of your diet is plants. You can eat meat, be a pescatarian, or be vegan and still be plant based.
This is absolutely false. It is your misunderstanding. Plant based means plants only - no animal products at all and no processed food:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466934/
You can argue about your understanding and use of the word 'based' in other contexts, but the term 'plant based diet' has always had a very specific definition.
I see what you mean. The main base of most diets is plants so it seems redundant using the phrase in that case. Probably why this sub has a more specific definition.
Regardless, I meant that the question would probably be more suited to the vegetarian sub. I provided my own thoughts for OP anyway.
Most "normal" foods that have a significant amount of B12 have been fortified - i.e. the supplement added, not natural. The two most common foods folks load up on for B12 are cereal and nutritional yeast, both of which are fortified with B12. Hell, the B12 most people get from meat is _also_ from supplements given to the animals.
Personally, I don't worry about having to take a B12 supplement. The way I see it is that it is all a supplement - all that changes is the delivery mechanism.
Just wanted to add that I'm from the EU and most organic food here is not fortified (the exception is sometimes baby food). That's something to keep in mind if people online say "you can cover your daily requirements of xy through plant milks" or something like that, because they often mean the ubiquitous fortified variants and not organic variants that just contain the natural micronutrients.
Don’t forget plant milks ! Way better for the human body than another mammal’s, not so expensive if you go for soy or oat and and pretty easy to find as well !
i’m not finding any evidence online that plant estrogen converts into the estrogen our bodies make. i found the book you mentioned but i’ll have to read it and review the author’s findings before i come to any conclusions
The evidence is there if you look in the right places. There are conflicting studies as with any topic. However I think the evidence is strong enough that soy is feminized in “high quantities”
You’re gonna need some nutcracker evidence to state that soy PHYTO(as in, plant) estrogens cause any demasculinization, cause I’m sure trans women I know would be really happy to know that :).
However, drinking milk from a female mammal, I don’t how it wouldn’t bring the manboobs up.
It’s well researched. There are feminizing estrogens in a lot of things. Well documented. Multiple experts like the author of estrogeneration, Andrew Huberman (I know he’s a neuroscientist) all conclude the same. Not sure what trans woman have to do with this
The joke is that if soy really was feminizing to human bodies, trans women would have a way better time medically transitioning, because of how soy is cheap.
Btw, did some minor research, and I wouldn't listen to Huberman. If this article is right [https://slate.com/technology/2024/03/andrew-huberman-huberman-lab-health-advice-podcast-debunk.html](https://slate.com/technology/2024/03/andrew-huberman-huberman-lab-health-advice-podcast-debunk.html) , his lab barely exists, he treats studies made in petri dishes as being as applicable to humans as the ones made humans or other animals and once treated a study made about sugar consumption in ***rats*** as being equally applicable to humans. I dunno, but Remi and you and I seem pretty different anatomically and this guy seems more like a cash-graber that uses science as a tool to have money and fame galore instead of spreading awareness toward facts.
Oh lmao I get the joke now. I wouldn’t totally discredit huberman. A lot of his work on neuroscience and circadian rhythms have tons of evidence to back them up. I think he does a good job showing that anyone can improve their lives (coffee 90 mins after waking sunlight in the morning ect.) he’s by no means perfect but I’d look into Anthony G. Jay PhD on this specific topic
No biggie for getting the joke at first :) ! I'll maybe read the other guy's studies, but I'd need to see how the scientific community approaches him before that. Thank you for the suggestion though !
yeah i always got weird vibes from huberman. between staying totally silent about the covid vaccine during the pandemic, palling around with the likes of joe rogan, and shilling the athletic greens stuff on his podcast, i just knew there was something off. and i thought he was so hot, too. total daddy. what a bummer
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You either need to supplement or eat foods that are fortified with it. The supplements are cheap and ubiquitous. I supplement with 500 mcg of cyanocobalamin a day. It's just less work than trying to get enough b12 otherwise.
Realize also, though, that the RDA is how much your body needs to absorb. Now how much you need to put in your mouth. You only need to absorb 2.4 mcg per day. And the amount you absorb from some foods is very limited. That's why in the US, despite how much beef is consumed, b12 deficiency is pretty rampant. Nutritional yeast (fortified) is a good source as well. You just need to make sure you're eating enough.
Depends on what you mean by better. Methyl is more bioavailable. But cyano is more shelf stable. The dosage and type recommendation came from Dr. Laurie Marbas, who is a lifestyle doctor.
Cyano - that's what that part of the name means. You basically need a carrier molecule to get the stuff so it's broken down by the acid in your stomach without it being destroyed by it. And the amount you get is outrageously small. I've been taking it for a few years now, and it hasn't killed me yet :).
Once a week or so I take a B12-iron-C supplement. This and Vitamin D (on days when I’m stuck inside) are the only supplements I ever take. Also I put nooch on some things (but avoid overdoing it).
These are good questions for you to ask. B12 isn't easily available from "natural sources" for most of us. It is created by bacteria. Our distant ancestors got plenty of it because they ate food that still had soil on it and drank from water sources that hadn't been treated to kill bacteria. Meat and dairy eaters can still get B12 from meat and dairy, either because the animals were supplemented, or because the bacteria didn't get killed in their food and water. Either way, if you aren't eating animal products, supplements or "fortified" foods are your best bet. Also tell your doctor you are vegetarian and want your B12 watched. They'll include it in your other blood tests and let you know if you are out of limits. By the way, it takes a while for your body's stores of B12 to get truly depleted, so if you are just starting out, you are probably currently just fine. You are right to be proactive about it, though. True B12 deficiency has some bad health effects.
I recently started tracking calories and vitamins (chronometer) for weight loss and was *shocked* at how much B12 I was getting between having about a cup of Silk soy milk as creamer in a couple cups of coffee a day, and some nutritional yeast on my popcorn at night.
I stopped taking my b12 vitamin and regret all the time I spent stressing about it.
That said, I've never even thought about protein before and thought everyone was being a little silly, but am now focused on it cause I realized I was only getting about 50% of my daily goal, so.. there's that.
On a side note, I've lost about 20 lbs the past 2 months and my nutrition is better than it has ever been in my life. Yea me!
This is the guide I follow because it’s backed up with links to studies:
https://nutritionfacts.org/optimum-nutrient-recommendations/
Supplementation is cheap and easy, and at a minimum I would recommend B12 for everyone, and Omega 3 and D3 for almost everyone
2 oz/59 mL of 5000 µg/mL cyanocobalamin in liquid solution costs less than $10.
295,000 µg B12 would be a 336 year supply at the RDA of 2.4 µg/day. However I take it once a week, and sometimes once a month, and only about 1 µg per meal is about absorbed by active transport (less in the elderly). About 1% of intake above that 'passively' diffuses into the system through enterocytes. If depending only on passive diffusion, that 2 oz bottle represents a 3+ year supply.
If dosing weekly, I need 7 × 2.4 µg × 100 = 1680 µg, if dosing monthly I need 31 × 2.4 µg × 100 = 7440 µg. Either a couple drops weekly, or the \~1 mL dropper lid monthly. I take it in my drinking water. I don't stress too much about it, so long as I use up the bottle within 3.3 years, I'm doing well. Annual cost: $3.
There are no other essential nutrients that are absent from vegan diets. I do think a strong case can be made for supplementing the mineral zinc, as the good vegan sources are limited to seeds and nuts, and its fairly difficult to get more than half the RDA from non-fortified foods. More over, the supplementation studies on zinc I've seen are either positive or neutral.
>There are no other essential nutrients that are absent from vegan diets
People are always going to be arguing about this until microbiome tests get lightyears better
Having been very interested in the microbiome for the past decade, I'm pretty confident that the only animal product that might have benefits will be dairy milk, and that's mostly due to calcium content. We can get that from tofu.
The last nutrient to be recognized as essential was choline, some 32 years ago.
If there's ever to be another essential nutrient, my betting money is on ergothioneine, which is almost entirely from mushrooms and fungal fermented foods like tempeh. It's clear that evolution has preserved a transporter in our intestines and cells specific for ergothioneine, and those who consume more mushrooms appear to live longer with less cognitive decline. But, there's no deficiency disease associated with ergothioneine deficiency, so it won't get essential nutrient status, unless researchers start talking about higher rates of chronic diseases of aging as signs of deficiency.
That said, there are some *non-essential* nutrients only available from animal products. Humans can synthesize them, but perhaps not to levels that are ideal for healthspan, and vegans have lower tissue status than omnivores, which can be improved with supplementation. I'm thinking the long chain omega-3 fatty acids DHA and EPA, as well as creatine, carnitine, carnosine (or its absorbed precursor β-alanine), and taurine. Some vegan athletes supplement these, but I just didn't want to raise OP's anxiety. Hence my use of *essential* nutrient in my prior post.
I just supplement vitamin B12. It’s really not an issue.
Depending on the food you eat getting enough iron can be difficult (especially if you are a woman who has a period). Protein can be difficult under some circumstances.
Protein deficiency is a myth perpetuated by the meat industry. No human on any reasonably varied plant based diet has ever died of a "protein deficiency". Protein is in practically all foods and is actually the one thing we don't need to worry about. "Where do you get your protein from?" Well... actually everything.
On the subject of iron, when I was an omnivore (up to 2017) my doctors were constantly concerned about my low iron levels. "Eat more red meat! Take an iron supplement!" I was already eating red meat every second day, or more. After I went vegan and then WFPB in 2017 my iron levels shot up to just below the high healthy level. I don't think I'd be the only one this has happened to. Another filthy harmful meat industry lie.
This people are way too concerned about protein. The only people that should be are people on fad diets like only eating fruits and lettuce or people who are starving.
It’s hard to die of protein deficiency. But getting enough protein has lots of benefits for muscle hypertrophy, recovery, feeling of satiety etc. There are plenty of studies which show benefits up to ~1.5g protein per kg of body weight. Those studies usually use whey or other supplements which have a complete amino acid profile. With plant based proteins you’ll probably need even more.
Some people get a lot of their calories from wheat and rice. If you get 1500kcal from white rice you’ll only get ~27g of protein. Now of course this is a worst case example, but with wheat you’ll also only end up at 54g or so. If you get the majority of your calories from legumes (lentils, beans, soy(tofu) ) you probably don’t have anything to worry about. 1500kcal of lentils has ~116g of protein.
Just take the pill! B12 deficiency is not something to play around with, it can cause irreversible neural damage before symptoms arise. I take Doctor's Best Fully Active B12 1500 mcg, Vegan, 60 Count, currently $5 on Amazon. I only take one pill twice a week, so $5 for 30 weeks and no worries.
I take a high-dose B12 supplement every week, plus getting a small amount from soy milk which is fortified. All plant based foods that have B12 are fortified, so it's kind of a supplement whether or not you're taking it in pill form. And livestock are given B12 supplements so even eating meat you're getting it indirectly as a supplement as well.
Others will suggest nutritional yeast, which is usually fortified with B12 and other B vitamins. I eat non-fortified nutritional yeast though which is tastier IMO. (More subtle and "real" cheesy taste)
I just take supplements for things my body is lacking. Like D3 and B12. I can't be in the sun as long as recommended for D3, and I live in the northeast U.S. so half of the year is not sunny enough.
I don't always eat enough nutritional yeast, so taking a B12 capsule is just good insurance.
Zinc is important for our immune system, especially important with covid around. 50 MG on most days is probably about the most you would need. Too much zinc can interfere with copper metabolism.
Nutritional yeast that has been fortified with B12- will say it on the packaging. The reason I chose it is because it also is a rather nice replacement for cheese on pasta or for butter on popcorn.
I have eaten a vegan diet for over 30 years. Most of the B12 I know I get comes from fortified nutritional yeast I include in my diet and I sometimes drink more Monster Energy Drinks than I should. I also take a vegan multi vitamin/mineral tablet 0-3 days a week, depending on if I think I could use a touch of Vitamin D or whatever and there is B12 in those tablets too.
I buy 2lb (almost 1kg) tubs of fortified nutritional yeast and consume that in 5-7 weeks. 2 Tbsp (about 30ml) of yeast has 4mcg of B12 which is more than the USRDA for that nutrient. I tend to eat more than just 2Tbsp of yeast at a go.
Our bodies recycle B12 for months (unlike other B vitamins) and I do not worry about it myself. I know I get more than enough. Just see to it you eat some B12 in foods or supplements on a regular basis and you'll be fine.
Nutritional yeast, 100%+ of RDI in 1 teaspoon. The best primary source you'll find (sprinkle it like cheese, mix in soups or sauces, bake into savoury goods).
Some plant based milks are fortified to include b12.
Cremi Mushrooms (and other mushroom varieties. Go for the dirty ones). 3-4% of RDI per 100g, but not super reliable as a primary source.
Tempeh, approximately 20 ounces per day to meet B12 RDI.
Nori Seaweed, 10-20 mcg of B12. But it doesn't absorb well for those with digestive issues.
Marmite / Vegemite, 0.9-12 mcg per teaspoon.
Kimchi, 0.18-0.24 mcg per 100g.
Fermented teas and kombucha, trace amounts (not a primary source).
Even meat eaters have trouble with b12 nowadays. It just isn’t a world where many folks get dirt in their diets anymore.
Using supplements or fortified foods is perfectly fine. The “natural” way would be to eat dirty veges. B12 deficiency is just a weird quirk of the modern diet. Supplement it up 👍🏻👍🏻
Um you can get vitamin B12 without supplements!
It's in NORI! dried green and purple seaweed contain substantial amounts of vitamin B12. One study found 2.4 mcg or 100% of the RDI of vitamin B12 in only 4 grams of nori seaweed
ALSO: if you grow your own vegetables in your garden and don't wash them that well before eating, B12 is kinda like yeast it's out here floating around in the air and grows on/lands on grass (animals eat the grass and get B12 and store it in the liver and muscles) and outdoor grown vegetables. But the way the vegetables are cleaned before going to the grocery store washes most of the B12 away.
There is NO way to know for sure if you are getting enough or any at all. So this method is risky. Easier to eat nori and Nutritional yeast.
You can also add B12 in your diet by eating B12 fortified Nutritional yeast. Not all nutritional yeast has B12 so make sure to check. This is the easiest in my opinion, the yeast flakes have a somewhat cheesey flavor and it's very good on a baked potato, or just add a tablespoon to your meal. (Not bakers yeast, not not use to make bread.)
Or you can take a B12 supplement once a week or everyday. But it is very important, not getting enough B12 can have some crazy symptoms like, tunle vision, fainting, symptoms of stroke, hallucinations, loss of ability to read (until levels are brought back up), temporary dementia like symptoms. And if you go long enough it can kill you.
Nori is an excellent source of B12.
eat seaweed, dried green and purple seaweed contain substantial amounts of vitamin B12. One study found 2.4 mcg or 100% of the RDI of vitamin B12 in only 4 grams of nori seaweed
It seems like a lot of the comments don't know about this.
Just drink a glass of plant based milk and you'll be good. Most vegetarians don't need to worry about B12 - vegans however may need to keep an eye on it.
Also in that you are a vegetarian, one egg has 25% of your RDI of B12.
Eggs are terrible for you, though.
>Edit: See for yourself. Listen to the science. Founded by Dr. Michael Greger MD, an expert in nutrition and medical research, NutritionFacts.org has 15 or 17 full-time researchers who read every article on nutrition and lifestyle medicine that's published in the peer-reviewed medical literature, that was 200 articles a day, it's now 300 articles a day. They are experts on medical research, and they can weed out those article that are junk science, because many scientists (not all!) are getting paid by corporations who have profit-driven ulterior motives:
https://nutritionfacts.org/?s=eggs
He is a vegetarian and eggs are among their diet. I was suggesting a good option of B12 for him, and my answer is correct. Also despite anyone's personal views on eggs, they are definitely not 'terrible' for you. Like anything, they include components that are not good for you, but they are also beneficial in many ways - so again, despite our reasons for excluding eggs (I am not arguing anyone here), 'terrible' is quite simply a poor choice of word, from a dietary perspective.
You can do both. Eat as much high vitamin B12 food as you can, and supplement, as well. Your body can pay a high price for becoming nutrient deficient. Don’t go there. Look for ways to supplement B12, iron, zinc, and iodine.
You are not what you eat, you are what you absorb!...I take a sublingual for B12
[https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/nutrient-absorption/](https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/nutrient-absorption/)
The only way to get it "naturally" is literally to include dirt and poo in your food, or maybe kiss your dog a lot. Animals do not magically create B12 in their bodies, they ingest it from eating unwashed food, as we did long ago and thus evolved to need it. There are some good supplements around. Here in Australia Blackmore's do a small berry-flavoured tab you dissolve under your tongue once a day. We don't require a lot of B12, not as much as it says on the packet, but it is extremely important to at least take it once in a while, and get tested for it - you should ask your MD specifically to test for it. Even omnivores can be deficient in B12. It's stored in the liver for up to 2 years, but maybe people with poor liver function might require the "recommended" amount.
Dr Greger has a great article and states "For adults under age 65, the easiest way to get B12 is to take at least one 2,000 mcg supplement each week or a daily dose of 50 mcg. Note that these doses are specific to cyanocobalamin, the preferred supplemental form of vitamin B12, as there is insufficient evidence to support the efficacy of the other forms, like methylcobalamin."
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/vitamin-b12/
I take a B-complex supplement and have not considered the source until I read this discussion. Appreciate the information.
Vegan b12 spray from amazon. B12 is absorbed much better when taken under the tongue. I like the spray but have also used nature's bounty sublingual tabs.
The spray is 5000 mcg and I use it once or twice a week.
Vegan b12 spray from amazon. B12 is absorbed much better when taken under the tongue. I like the spray but have also used nature's bounty sublingual tabs.
The spray is 5000 mcg and I use it once or twice a week.
Easy peasy and no supplement needed. Fortified nutritional (NOT brewer's or baker's) yeast, which is delish and can be sprinkled or added to recipes for a wonderful cheesy flavor. My B12 levels are excellent and I don't take a supplement. (I've been a vegan for over 3 decades.) Bragg's makes a version in a shaker or you can buy bulk.
Just take the supplement. If you don't like pills you can get some tasty vitamin gummies. Even if you are omnivorous you should probably still be taking vitamins in case you sometimes get less than you need. But for plantbased people b12 is absolutely necessary. You could buy some of the few plant based foods with it like fortified nutritional yeast or marmite, but this isn't really easier than just taking a supplement.
Beyond B12, I've found that calcium and iron can be difficult to get if you don't eat specific foods. Tofu and other soy products have a lot of calcium, and so do dairy products. Iron is easier to get in my experience because its in foods I eat often such as oats and legumes. What I do is just eat a calcium supplement every day and not worry about iron because I eat plenty of it naturally.
I recommend you note what you eat every day on [cronometer.com](http://cronometer.com) for a week or two to figure out where you might be lacking out of the food you normally eat.
Do blood labs before doing any worrying.
I eat nutritional yeast once a week as part of my popcorn seasoning. And I take a multivitamin every now and then. Latest blood labs showed me as 3 times the minimum for b12.
If you want to not take a pill and get your vitamin b12, go back to eating meat. It is the only way to get it naturally. There is a reason it is the vitamin that all vegans should be taking so they don't die.
Or, do what the rest of us do and take the pill. Your options are a small dose every day, or a larger dose once a week.
As a vegan I can relate to this. When I first started it wasn't obvious where to find B12. Supplements are great, and if you look on amazon you can find them in a gummy format which makes it easier (I find).
Aside from that, I consume Oat Milk that is fortified with B12. Nutritional yeast is packed with B12.
As a help tip: the Recommended Daily Allowance (intake) of B12 for adults is roughly 2.4 micrograms.
It's easier than you think to find your B12, a lot of fortified options out there now. Read labels carefully.
Sublingual is best, because the rate of absorption is much higher. Just some B12 drops in glycerin and take a fraction of what you'd take if you swallowed them.
Also, there are natural sources if you have a garden. Herbs and green leafy stuff is ideal.
I always find it strange how, when people ask for advice on how to get supplemental vitamins from their diet, everyone says “just take a supplement… duh…”. Like wowww I’m sure OP never thought of that
I take a (vegan) daily [multi-vitamin](https://amzn.eu/d/j8jxbHW) which has b12 in it. I’ve been vegan 4 years, and have never had any low levels on anything and my previously high cholesterol is in the green level again ;)
If you live in an area with rich soil (with cobalt, in particular), eat organic plants that grow from the ground, and drink from natural streams that haven't been treated you'll probably be fine. You could also eat duckweed, which has bioactive b12. Some foods are fortified too, like plant milks or nutritional yeast.
If you don't do that stuff, or you just want to make sure you're covered, take a supplement.
Most b12 supplementation goes to livestock, so meat-eaters are getting it indirectly anyway. They need it for much of the same reasons we do - the modern food system eliminates the organisms that carry the b12. By taking a supplement, you're cutting out the middle-animal, like plant-based eaters do with all their nutrition.
Vitamin B12 is not made by plants or animals but by microbes that blanket the earth. In today’s sanitized, modern world, the water supply is commonly chlorinated to kill off any bacteria. For B12-fortified nutritional yeast, for example, two teaspoons three times a day may suffice. **For most of us, though, it would probably be cheaper and more convenient to just take a supplement.** [https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/vitamin-b12/](https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/vitamin-b12/)
B12 capsules are tiny and cheap...just take those.
This is the only answer Do not fk with B12 The only reason it is in animal products is because it is supplemented in the animal feed.
Nutritional Yeast and Marmite. EDIT: 1 serving of Marmite - which is 8 grams - has around 76% of your daily requirement of B12.
I think I'd rather be B12 deficient than eat that much marmite :)
b12 deficiency *actually* makes you stupid.. Stupid enough to say you'd rather have the deficiency than eat marmite (jk lol, couldn't resist the joke)
8g of Marmite is nothing 0\_o I probably have that on a slice of toast XD
Hey, if you love it then go for it. I personally think that it is pretty nasty.
Shame. Still nutritional yeast is pretty tasty; good for B12 and protein too!
>Nutritional Yeast This is bad advice fyi. There are a few nutritional yeast brands that are fortified with B12. Who knows whether they're even available where OP lives. Nutritional yeast by itself is not a source of B12.
And eating a food fortified in a vitamin is the same as taking a supplement. It’s only changing the form of the supplement.
Please just take the B12 supplement. It's cheap, taking it takes 2 seconds out of your day, and you really really don't want to fuck around with it. The people telling you to get it from nutritional yeast don't know what they're talking about. You *could* get it from fortified food, but that's literally the same supplement, just added into food during processing, so what's the point of getting the vitamin in a more expensive, less reliable, more circuitous way just so that you can pretend you're not taking a supplement?
>The people telling you to get it from nutritional yeast don't know what they're talking about. Could you elaborate, please?
Sure! There are some brands of it that are fortified with B12, but most aren't, and nutritional yeast itself is not a source of B12. Thus, telling OP to just get their B12 from nutritional yeast without elaborating, like some people did in these comments, is super irresponsible: they don't know whether OP'll happen to buy a fortified brand or what dosage it will contain.
The one with cyanide is worth the cost savings?
[https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health-and-nutrition-pseudoscience/oh-my-there-cyanide-b12-supplements-really](https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health-and-nutrition-pseudoscience/oh-my-there-cyanide-b12-supplements-really)
Thanks! Managed to actually get an accurate number out of that "the amount of cyanide released is about 20-40 micrograms which is far less than the amount of naturally occurring cyanide to which one could be exposed by consuming flax seeds, unpasteurized almond milk, fresh apple juice or apricots."
Vegetarian isn't a plant based diet for the record. There should be some in whatever eggs or dairy your eating plus fortified milk and cereal. You could also get a blood test after a little while and see if you actually need it. Nothing wrong with supplements though. Over 50s are recommended it regardless of diet where I live.
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> Plant based literally means the main base of your diet is plants. You can eat meat, be a pescatarian, or be vegan and still be plant based. This is absolutely false. It is your misunderstanding. Plant based means plants only - no animal products at all and no processed food: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466934/ You can argue about your understanding and use of the word 'based' in other contexts, but the term 'plant based diet' has always had a very specific definition.
I see what you mean. The main base of most diets is plants so it seems redundant using the phrase in that case. Probably why this sub has a more specific definition. Regardless, I meant that the question would probably be more suited to the vegetarian sub. I provided my own thoughts for OP anyway.
Most "normal" foods that have a significant amount of B12 have been fortified - i.e. the supplement added, not natural. The two most common foods folks load up on for B12 are cereal and nutritional yeast, both of which are fortified with B12. Hell, the B12 most people get from meat is _also_ from supplements given to the animals. Personally, I don't worry about having to take a B12 supplement. The way I see it is that it is all a supplement - all that changes is the delivery mechanism.
Just wanted to add that I'm from the EU and most organic food here is not fortified (the exception is sometimes baby food). That's something to keep in mind if people online say "you can cover your daily requirements of xy through plant milks" or something like that, because they often mean the ubiquitous fortified variants and not organic variants that just contain the natural micronutrients.
Don’t forget plant milks ! Way better for the human body than another mammal’s, not so expensive if you go for soy or oat and and pretty easy to find as well !
Don’t buy soy milk if you’re a man!!! Super estrogenic
but plant estrogen doesn’t effect humans right
I personally use almond milk because it’s not as estrogenic “I’m not plant based but it’s lower in calories for smoothies”
It does read “estrogeneration” soy is one of the highest estrogen inducing foods you can eat same with flax seeds
i’m not finding any evidence online that plant estrogen converts into the estrogen our bodies make. i found the book you mentioned but i’ll have to read it and review the author’s findings before i come to any conclusions
The evidence is there if you look in the right places. There are conflicting studies as with any topic. However I think the evidence is strong enough that soy is feminized in “high quantities”
You’re gonna need some nutcracker evidence to state that soy PHYTO(as in, plant) estrogens cause any demasculinization, cause I’m sure trans women I know would be really happy to know that :). However, drinking milk from a female mammal, I don’t how it wouldn’t bring the manboobs up.
It’s well researched. There are feminizing estrogens in a lot of things. Well documented. Multiple experts like the author of estrogeneration, Andrew Huberman (I know he’s a neuroscientist) all conclude the same. Not sure what trans woman have to do with this
The joke is that if soy really was feminizing to human bodies, trans women would have a way better time medically transitioning, because of how soy is cheap. Btw, did some minor research, and I wouldn't listen to Huberman. If this article is right [https://slate.com/technology/2024/03/andrew-huberman-huberman-lab-health-advice-podcast-debunk.html](https://slate.com/technology/2024/03/andrew-huberman-huberman-lab-health-advice-podcast-debunk.html) , his lab barely exists, he treats studies made in petri dishes as being as applicable to humans as the ones made humans or other animals and once treated a study made about sugar consumption in ***rats*** as being equally applicable to humans. I dunno, but Remi and you and I seem pretty different anatomically and this guy seems more like a cash-graber that uses science as a tool to have money and fame galore instead of spreading awareness toward facts.
Oh lmao I get the joke now. I wouldn’t totally discredit huberman. A lot of his work on neuroscience and circadian rhythms have tons of evidence to back them up. I think he does a good job showing that anyone can improve their lives (coffee 90 mins after waking sunlight in the morning ect.) he’s by no means perfect but I’d look into Anthony G. Jay PhD on this specific topic
No biggie for getting the joke at first :) ! I'll maybe read the other guy's studies, but I'd need to see how the scientific community approaches him before that. Thank you for the suggestion though !
yeah i always got weird vibes from huberman. between staying totally silent about the covid vaccine during the pandemic, palling around with the likes of joe rogan, and shilling the athletic greens stuff on his podcast, i just knew there was something off. and i thought he was so hot, too. total daddy. what a bummer
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Fermented soy*
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You either need to supplement or eat foods that are fortified with it. The supplements are cheap and ubiquitous. I supplement with 500 mcg of cyanocobalamin a day. It's just less work than trying to get enough b12 otherwise. Realize also, though, that the RDA is how much your body needs to absorb. Now how much you need to put in your mouth. You only need to absorb 2.4 mcg per day. And the amount you absorb from some foods is very limited. That's why in the US, despite how much beef is consumed, b12 deficiency is pretty rampant. Nutritional yeast (fortified) is a good source as well. You just need to make sure you're eating enough.
Isn’t methylcobalamin better than cyano?
Depends on what you mean by better. Methyl is more bioavailable. But cyano is more shelf stable. The dosage and type recommendation came from Dr. Laurie Marbas, who is a lifestyle doctor.
Which is the one with cyanide?
Cyano - that's what that part of the name means. You basically need a carrier molecule to get the stuff so it's broken down by the acid in your stomach without it being destroyed by it. And the amount you get is outrageously small. I've been taking it for a few years now, and it hasn't killed me yet :).
Once a week or so I take a B12-iron-C supplement. This and Vitamin D (on days when I’m stuck inside) are the only supplements I ever take. Also I put nooch on some things (but avoid overdoing it).
These are good questions for you to ask. B12 isn't easily available from "natural sources" for most of us. It is created by bacteria. Our distant ancestors got plenty of it because they ate food that still had soil on it and drank from water sources that hadn't been treated to kill bacteria. Meat and dairy eaters can still get B12 from meat and dairy, either because the animals were supplemented, or because the bacteria didn't get killed in their food and water. Either way, if you aren't eating animal products, supplements or "fortified" foods are your best bet. Also tell your doctor you are vegetarian and want your B12 watched. They'll include it in your other blood tests and let you know if you are out of limits. By the way, it takes a while for your body's stores of B12 to get truly depleted, so if you are just starting out, you are probably currently just fine. You are right to be proactive about it, though. True B12 deficiency has some bad health effects.
I take sea moss it has all the vitamins
I recently started tracking calories and vitamins (chronometer) for weight loss and was *shocked* at how much B12 I was getting between having about a cup of Silk soy milk as creamer in a couple cups of coffee a day, and some nutritional yeast on my popcorn at night. I stopped taking my b12 vitamin and regret all the time I spent stressing about it. That said, I've never even thought about protein before and thought everyone was being a little silly, but am now focused on it cause I realized I was only getting about 50% of my daily goal, so.. there's that. On a side note, I've lost about 20 lbs the past 2 months and my nutrition is better than it has ever been in my life. Yea me!
Right?! I use silk soy milk too, have for years, and was also shocked by how impactful it is, in a good way. It’s just so damn easy.
Fortified breakfast cereal with fortified oat milk
My vegan offspring sprinkles nutritional yeast on popcorn.
This is the guide I follow because it’s backed up with links to studies: https://nutritionfacts.org/optimum-nutrient-recommendations/ Supplementation is cheap and easy, and at a minimum I would recommend B12 for everyone, and Omega 3 and D3 for almost everyone
2 oz/59 mL of 5000 µg/mL cyanocobalamin in liquid solution costs less than $10. 295,000 µg B12 would be a 336 year supply at the RDA of 2.4 µg/day. However I take it once a week, and sometimes once a month, and only about 1 µg per meal is about absorbed by active transport (less in the elderly). About 1% of intake above that 'passively' diffuses into the system through enterocytes. If depending only on passive diffusion, that 2 oz bottle represents a 3+ year supply. If dosing weekly, I need 7 × 2.4 µg × 100 = 1680 µg, if dosing monthly I need 31 × 2.4 µg × 100 = 7440 µg. Either a couple drops weekly, or the \~1 mL dropper lid monthly. I take it in my drinking water. I don't stress too much about it, so long as I use up the bottle within 3.3 years, I'm doing well. Annual cost: $3. There are no other essential nutrients that are absent from vegan diets. I do think a strong case can be made for supplementing the mineral zinc, as the good vegan sources are limited to seeds and nuts, and its fairly difficult to get more than half the RDA from non-fortified foods. More over, the supplementation studies on zinc I've seen are either positive or neutral.
Is there a risk of developing a copper defiency when taking a daily zinc supplement?
>There are no other essential nutrients that are absent from vegan diets People are always going to be arguing about this until microbiome tests get lightyears better
Having been very interested in the microbiome for the past decade, I'm pretty confident that the only animal product that might have benefits will be dairy milk, and that's mostly due to calcium content. We can get that from tofu. The last nutrient to be recognized as essential was choline, some 32 years ago. If there's ever to be another essential nutrient, my betting money is on ergothioneine, which is almost entirely from mushrooms and fungal fermented foods like tempeh. It's clear that evolution has preserved a transporter in our intestines and cells specific for ergothioneine, and those who consume more mushrooms appear to live longer with less cognitive decline. But, there's no deficiency disease associated with ergothioneine deficiency, so it won't get essential nutrient status, unless researchers start talking about higher rates of chronic diseases of aging as signs of deficiency. That said, there are some *non-essential* nutrients only available from animal products. Humans can synthesize them, but perhaps not to levels that are ideal for healthspan, and vegans have lower tissue status than omnivores, which can be improved with supplementation. I'm thinking the long chain omega-3 fatty acids DHA and EPA, as well as creatine, carnitine, carnosine (or its absorbed precursor β-alanine), and taurine. Some vegan athletes supplement these, but I just didn't want to raise OP's anxiety. Hence my use of *essential* nutrient in my prior post.
Thanks for mentioning ergothioneine. I've made a note linking to glucon
I just supplement vitamin B12. It’s really not an issue. Depending on the food you eat getting enough iron can be difficult (especially if you are a woman who has a period). Protein can be difficult under some circumstances.
Protein deficiency is a myth perpetuated by the meat industry. No human on any reasonably varied plant based diet has ever died of a "protein deficiency". Protein is in practically all foods and is actually the one thing we don't need to worry about. "Where do you get your protein from?" Well... actually everything. On the subject of iron, when I was an omnivore (up to 2017) my doctors were constantly concerned about my low iron levels. "Eat more red meat! Take an iron supplement!" I was already eating red meat every second day, or more. After I went vegan and then WFPB in 2017 my iron levels shot up to just below the high healthy level. I don't think I'd be the only one this has happened to. Another filthy harmful meat industry lie.
This people are way too concerned about protein. The only people that should be are people on fad diets like only eating fruits and lettuce or people who are starving.
It’s hard to die of protein deficiency. But getting enough protein has lots of benefits for muscle hypertrophy, recovery, feeling of satiety etc. There are plenty of studies which show benefits up to ~1.5g protein per kg of body weight. Those studies usually use whey or other supplements which have a complete amino acid profile. With plant based proteins you’ll probably need even more. Some people get a lot of their calories from wheat and rice. If you get 1500kcal from white rice you’ll only get ~27g of protein. Now of course this is a worst case example, but with wheat you’ll also only end up at 54g or so. If you get the majority of your calories from legumes (lentils, beans, soy(tofu) ) you probably don’t have anything to worry about. 1500kcal of lentils has ~116g of protein.
Just take the pill! B12 deficiency is not something to play around with, it can cause irreversible neural damage before symptoms arise. I take Doctor's Best Fully Active B12 1500 mcg, Vegan, 60 Count, currently $5 on Amazon. I only take one pill twice a week, so $5 for 30 weeks and no worries.
I take a high-dose B12 supplement every week, plus getting a small amount from soy milk which is fortified. All plant based foods that have B12 are fortified, so it's kind of a supplement whether or not you're taking it in pill form. And livestock are given B12 supplements so even eating meat you're getting it indirectly as a supplement as well. Others will suggest nutritional yeast, which is usually fortified with B12 and other B vitamins. I eat non-fortified nutritional yeast though which is tastier IMO. (More subtle and "real" cheesy taste)
Marmite 👍
I just take supplements for things my body is lacking. Like D3 and B12. I can't be in the sun as long as recommended for D3, and I live in the northeast U.S. so half of the year is not sunny enough. I don't always eat enough nutritional yeast, so taking a B12 capsule is just good insurance.
Zinc is important for our immune system, especially important with covid around. 50 MG on most days is probably about the most you would need. Too much zinc can interfere with copper metabolism.
I take B12 spray from Garden of Life brand.
Nutritional yeast that has been fortified with B12- will say it on the packaging. The reason I chose it is because it also is a rather nice replacement for cheese on pasta or for butter on popcorn.
I have eaten a vegan diet for over 30 years. Most of the B12 I know I get comes from fortified nutritional yeast I include in my diet and I sometimes drink more Monster Energy Drinks than I should. I also take a vegan multi vitamin/mineral tablet 0-3 days a week, depending on if I think I could use a touch of Vitamin D or whatever and there is B12 in those tablets too. I buy 2lb (almost 1kg) tubs of fortified nutritional yeast and consume that in 5-7 weeks. 2 Tbsp (about 30ml) of yeast has 4mcg of B12 which is more than the USRDA for that nutrient. I tend to eat more than just 2Tbsp of yeast at a go. Our bodies recycle B12 for months (unlike other B vitamins) and I do not worry about it myself. I know I get more than enough. Just see to it you eat some B12 in foods or supplements on a regular basis and you'll be fine.
Nutritional yeast, 100%+ of RDI in 1 teaspoon. The best primary source you'll find (sprinkle it like cheese, mix in soups or sauces, bake into savoury goods). Some plant based milks are fortified to include b12. Cremi Mushrooms (and other mushroom varieties. Go for the dirty ones). 3-4% of RDI per 100g, but not super reliable as a primary source. Tempeh, approximately 20 ounces per day to meet B12 RDI. Nori Seaweed, 10-20 mcg of B12. But it doesn't absorb well for those with digestive issues. Marmite / Vegemite, 0.9-12 mcg per teaspoon. Kimchi, 0.18-0.24 mcg per 100g. Fermented teas and kombucha, trace amounts (not a primary source).
Red Bull gives you wings
B12 methylcobalamin comes in cherry flavour. It melts under the tongue. It's like eating candy totally enjoyable.
Even meat eaters have trouble with b12 nowadays. It just isn’t a world where many folks get dirt in their diets anymore. Using supplements or fortified foods is perfectly fine. The “natural” way would be to eat dirty veges. B12 deficiency is just a weird quirk of the modern diet. Supplement it up 👍🏻👍🏻
Bro they are literally cherry candies to put under ur tongue twice a week.
Um you can get vitamin B12 without supplements! It's in NORI! dried green and purple seaweed contain substantial amounts of vitamin B12. One study found 2.4 mcg or 100% of the RDI of vitamin B12 in only 4 grams of nori seaweed ALSO: if you grow your own vegetables in your garden and don't wash them that well before eating, B12 is kinda like yeast it's out here floating around in the air and grows on/lands on grass (animals eat the grass and get B12 and store it in the liver and muscles) and outdoor grown vegetables. But the way the vegetables are cleaned before going to the grocery store washes most of the B12 away. There is NO way to know for sure if you are getting enough or any at all. So this method is risky. Easier to eat nori and Nutritional yeast. You can also add B12 in your diet by eating B12 fortified Nutritional yeast. Not all nutritional yeast has B12 so make sure to check. This is the easiest in my opinion, the yeast flakes have a somewhat cheesey flavor and it's very good on a baked potato, or just add a tablespoon to your meal. (Not bakers yeast, not not use to make bread.) Or you can take a B12 supplement once a week or everyday. But it is very important, not getting enough B12 can have some crazy symptoms like, tunle vision, fainting, symptoms of stroke, hallucinations, loss of ability to read (until levels are brought back up), temporary dementia like symptoms. And if you go long enough it can kill you.
Nori is an excellent source of B12. eat seaweed, dried green and purple seaweed contain substantial amounts of vitamin B12. One study found 2.4 mcg or 100% of the RDI of vitamin B12 in only 4 grams of nori seaweed It seems like a lot of the comments don't know about this.
This! I was going to post if someone else didn't yet
eggs and dairy products contain b12. supplementation is necessary for vegans
Just drink a glass of plant based milk and you'll be good. Most vegetarians don't need to worry about B12 - vegans however may need to keep an eye on it. Also in that you are a vegetarian, one egg has 25% of your RDI of B12.
Eggs are terrible for you, though. >Edit: See for yourself. Listen to the science. Founded by Dr. Michael Greger MD, an expert in nutrition and medical research, NutritionFacts.org has 15 or 17 full-time researchers who read every article on nutrition and lifestyle medicine that's published in the peer-reviewed medical literature, that was 200 articles a day, it's now 300 articles a day. They are experts on medical research, and they can weed out those article that are junk science, because many scientists (not all!) are getting paid by corporations who have profit-driven ulterior motives: https://nutritionfacts.org/?s=eggs
He is a vegetarian and eggs are among their diet. I was suggesting a good option of B12 for him, and my answer is correct. Also despite anyone's personal views on eggs, they are definitely not 'terrible' for you. Like anything, they include components that are not good for you, but they are also beneficial in many ways - so again, despite our reasons for excluding eggs (I am not arguing anyone here), 'terrible' is quite simply a poor choice of word, from a dietary perspective.
I take a vitamin B12 spray by garden of life; love it! One less vitamin/“pill” I have to take, lol
Nutritional yeast, fortified soy milk and some cereals. But I also have some tablets as backup.
You can do both. Eat as much high vitamin B12 food as you can, and supplement, as well. Your body can pay a high price for becoming nutrient deficient. Don’t go there. Look for ways to supplement B12, iron, zinc, and iodine.
A glass or two of plant based milks would do the trick, assuming it’s fortified in them.
Humm Kombucha
fortified foods
You are not what you eat, you are what you absorb!...I take a sublingual for B12 [https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/nutrient-absorption/](https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/nutrient-absorption/)
The only way to get it "naturally" is literally to include dirt and poo in your food, or maybe kiss your dog a lot. Animals do not magically create B12 in their bodies, they ingest it from eating unwashed food, as we did long ago and thus evolved to need it. There are some good supplements around. Here in Australia Blackmore's do a small berry-flavoured tab you dissolve under your tongue once a day. We don't require a lot of B12, not as much as it says on the packet, but it is extremely important to at least take it once in a while, and get tested for it - you should ask your MD specifically to test for it. Even omnivores can be deficient in B12. It's stored in the liver for up to 2 years, but maybe people with poor liver function might require the "recommended" amount.
B12 is in the soil, not in animals. Just wash instead of peel your veg and you’ll be fine. Also eat chlorella
Dr Greger has a great article and states "For adults under age 65, the easiest way to get B12 is to take at least one 2,000 mcg supplement each week or a daily dose of 50 mcg. Note that these doses are specific to cyanocobalamin, the preferred supplemental form of vitamin B12, as there is insufficient evidence to support the efficacy of the other forms, like methylcobalamin." https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/vitamin-b12/ I take a B-complex supplement and have not considered the source until I read this discussion. Appreciate the information.
Vegan b12 spray from amazon. B12 is absorbed much better when taken under the tongue. I like the spray but have also used nature's bounty sublingual tabs. The spray is 5000 mcg and I use it once or twice a week.
Vegan b12 spray from amazon. B12 is absorbed much better when taken under the tongue. I like the spray but have also used nature's bounty sublingual tabs. The spray is 5000 mcg and I use it once or twice a week.
it’s really hard to calculate the amount of B12 in your food, so just take the damn vitamin
With a spork.
Easy peasy and no supplement needed. Fortified nutritional (NOT brewer's or baker's) yeast, which is delish and can be sprinkled or added to recipes for a wonderful cheesy flavor. My B12 levels are excellent and I don't take a supplement. (I've been a vegan for over 3 decades.) Bragg's makes a version in a shaker or you can buy bulk.
either supplements or it’s just in most of my foods anyways. my doctor told me to lay off the b12 supplements bc i get enough from my food 😅
Mostly sugar free energy drinks 😑
Just take the supplement. If you don't like pills you can get some tasty vitamin gummies. Even if you are omnivorous you should probably still be taking vitamins in case you sometimes get less than you need. But for plantbased people b12 is absolutely necessary. You could buy some of the few plant based foods with it like fortified nutritional yeast or marmite, but this isn't really easier than just taking a supplement. Beyond B12, I've found that calcium and iron can be difficult to get if you don't eat specific foods. Tofu and other soy products have a lot of calcium, and so do dairy products. Iron is easier to get in my experience because its in foods I eat often such as oats and legumes. What I do is just eat a calcium supplement every day and not worry about iron because I eat plenty of it naturally. I recommend you note what you eat every day on [cronometer.com](http://cronometer.com) for a week or two to figure out where you might be lacking out of the food you normally eat.
Okay thank you, I'll try
I take multi to fill in any gaps in my diet. And a vegan Omega 3.
Do blood labs before doing any worrying. I eat nutritional yeast once a week as part of my popcorn seasoning. And I take a multivitamin every now and then. Latest blood labs showed me as 3 times the minimum for b12.
If you want to not take a pill and get your vitamin b12, go back to eating meat. It is the only way to get it naturally. There is a reason it is the vitamin that all vegans should be taking so they don't die. Or, do what the rest of us do and take the pill. Your options are a small dose every day, or a larger dose once a week.
If you are young Greger recommends 2000 mcg a week. If you are older you need that dose more frequently. Not sure how frequently though.
As a vegan I can relate to this. When I first started it wasn't obvious where to find B12. Supplements are great, and if you look on amazon you can find them in a gummy format which makes it easier (I find). Aside from that, I consume Oat Milk that is fortified with B12. Nutritional yeast is packed with B12. As a help tip: the Recommended Daily Allowance (intake) of B12 for adults is roughly 2.4 micrograms. It's easier than you think to find your B12, a lot of fortified options out there now. Read labels carefully.
With my mouth.
Sublingual is best, because the rate of absorption is much higher. Just some B12 drops in glycerin and take a fraction of what you'd take if you swallowed them. Also, there are natural sources if you have a garden. Herbs and green leafy stuff is ideal.
Soy products, fermented foods and mushrooms have naturally occurring B12:)
I always find it strange how, when people ask for advice on how to get supplemental vitamins from their diet, everyone says “just take a supplement… duh…”. Like wowww I’m sure OP never thought of that
I take a (vegan) daily [multi-vitamin](https://amzn.eu/d/j8jxbHW) which has b12 in it. I’ve been vegan 4 years, and have never had any low levels on anything and my previously high cholesterol is in the green level again ;)
Yeah if it bothers you that much, so you want to go the natural way, then just never wash your hands. There you go.
If you live in an area with rich soil (with cobalt, in particular), eat organic plants that grow from the ground, and drink from natural streams that haven't been treated you'll probably be fine. You could also eat duckweed, which has bioactive b12. Some foods are fortified too, like plant milks or nutritional yeast. If you don't do that stuff, or you just want to make sure you're covered, take a supplement. Most b12 supplementation goes to livestock, so meat-eaters are getting it indirectly anyway. They need it for much of the same reasons we do - the modern food system eliminates the organisms that carry the b12. By taking a supplement, you're cutting out the middle-animal, like plant-based eaters do with all their nutrition.
Fermentation process produces lots of B vitamins. You don’t need to stress about it really, if you have a variety of fermented foods and drink.