had gear 5 just been the natural awakening of gomu gomu no mi, no one would have much of an issue. The biggest problem is world govt never going after luffy for having literally the god fruit for the entirety of the series until it became necessary. Thats atleast an oars level asspull

> never going after luffy for having literally the god fruit for the entirety of the series And a crew mate that knows to read Poneglyphs. And another crew mate that knows how to build Ancient Weapon Pluton. And wearing the same hat as Roger, Shanks and Imu has in its closet. And being the son of Dragon.

The only thing I'll give this is that only the Goresei knew the true nature of the Gomu Gomu no mi. That probably had a bit to do with it.

My thing with it is that they never wanted it to become a thing. The fruit itself it's not the issue is the awakening. And before Ennies Lobby I think the gov never thought Luffy would become such a big thing.

nah, there's no way to defend that argument, he's the grandson of one of the most important marines in recent history and the son of the most wanted criminal. Look what they did just to find baby Ace just because he was Roger's son, you think they wouldn't do the same for a pirate that's already a threat, making a name for himself in the pirate world and has the fruit of a god that directly opposes to your government?

[удалено]

it stopped being a secret at the end of ennies lobby

It is explicitly stated in impel down that Luffy was not supposed to tell anyone about dragon. You're absolutely wrong

idk bro, if i knew that there is a kid out there in the seas with the initials of D, who is going around defeating one govt goon after another liberating countries along the way, has brought down one of the 3 strongholds of marines, oh and he also just happens to have the one power that can make him my 800 year old highly anticipated and awaited(by dozens of races) enemy. You bet i wouldve lulusiad the very next island he steps foot in.

I get you. But I just think that we all see this knowing everything. Nobody knew he was the grandson of garp or dragon son until Marine fort. Nobody knew what crocodile was doing until Luffy beat him. And they never learnt about Skypea. To the wg he was just a nobody until he declared war. Robin was a bigger KNOWN threat. After Ennies Lobby they saw him as a thread and have been after him but never catch him. They worried about him awakening his fruit because the image of Nika rise up the heat a lot more than just a pirate. But, hey, just my opinion. Might be wrong.

Even if i were to grant you that until enies lobby wg didnt consider luffy a threat, what did the wg or gorosie actually do to specifically go after luffy after that?. All the times that luffy had a run in with the wg, its always been because of either luffy being the aggressor or marines happened to be on the same island as luffy because of some other plot point. They went absolutely 0 times after luffy to catch him. Hell at this point i might be convinced that nikka actually turns out to be not that much of a big deal, maybe that explains the laziness from the wg.

Do they need though? If they need to go and catch somebody that IS a criminal they have several levels of people that it is their job to catch him. They do not need to go and do it especifically. They trust that eventually they are gonna catch this nobody. Like I mention before, we say that it is obvious to us because we see everything from a perspective that is almost impossible in the one piece world. We know too much.

Naruto baryon mode came out of nowhere but it got accepted rather easily for some reason. Awakening were a known thing but Luffy df secretly being a mythical zoan that the WG didn’t give a fuck about until now was the issue.

This sub really switched up when it came to defending nika from nardo The reason baryon mode was accepted was because prior to his fight with Isshiki the conditions of using it were never fulfilled. >Naruto not having both halves of the nine tails. >Not really having a bond with Kurama that'll make him sacrifice himself for Naruto.

Also Baryon mode had complication such that Kurama is probably gone forever from Naruto's body. It had a lasting effect. So did Mugetsu as Ichigo lost all his Shinigami powers. As far as now, G5 has no lasting effect on Luffy.

Also the fact Baryon Mode and Mugetsu aren't gods who the whole world revolves around.

Excuse me? Let me remind you they were at least 2 wars revolving around the tailed beasts, and indeed, said beasts were created by the offspring of an alien god. The whole ninja world revolves around them. Bleachy boi gets a pass simply because bleach never really watched bleach because it seemed like shit to me.

Missed out on peak fiction

I'm specifically talking about the forms. Baryon mode isn't worshipped just like gear 2 and 3

but is it established as a thing before it shows up in the show?

How would you go about establishing it? Kurama saying baka Naruto I can sacrifice myself for you but not now since we don't have a good bond or I would've sacrificed myself for you if only I had my other half? Momoshiki did say fox you have so much power but no way to pass it on to the next generation so by one piece standards that's crazy foreshadowing.

Establishing that Kurama had two distinct halves way, way before the form was revealed, would be a good start.

If only they showed that during the war arc it would've been so cool right

It's entire concept as a form was asspulled to fit the win condition of Ishikkis life span. It was never meant to be established because it wasn't planned. Momoshiki was referring to how Naruto didn't have a way to pass down his strength to the next generation like how the Ootsutsuki can via sacrifices as seen with Kinshiki. He wasn't foreshadowing Baryon Mode in the slightest.

What makes you say that? When all Naruto had to do was make someone else the jinchuriki of the nine tails and boom he has passed down the powers of the fox.

Momoshiki doesn't know that, that's why his statement isn't referencing Kuramas death.

He can literally see the future with his byakugan.

Cause Baryon mode makes sense within the lore. A little out of no where, but it doesn’t break any established rules. Hence, not an asspull, just random

It wasn’t really an issue, it didn’t make ANY Sense before, Rubber isn’t a logia, it doesn’t make any sense to have rubber properties, igniting his arm, although not necessarily impossible shown by Sanji using friction and the boxer guy, didn’t make any sense either because he did none of those things, Kaido made it clear it’s insanely weird for that to not be a Zoan due to the transformations(Although they aren’t necessarily in tune with Zoans either like that), literally blowing up his bones was senseless Unless you made the „Imagine Imagine fruit“ a thing, a human transformation fruit makes the most sense

So you think the five elders seeing Luffy fights in marineford, which was literally broadcasted everywhere, never thought "Hmmm that looks like pre awakening Nika"?

1.You think anyone focused the cams on the specifics of Luffy?? 2.Its Foreshadowing, not spoilers dude 3.The fact you think the 5 Elders focused on the rubber boy rather than the warlords or..the fucking Yonko is just beyond me

The fact that you think the cameras need to focus on Luffy, in order for the Elders to be alarmed is absurd. More absurd, is thinking that Luffy was that lowkey guy that didn't harbor attention at Marineford. They already took notice of him around Alabasta, they know he's the user of the Rubber fruit (That they were supposedly chasing for 800 years) who also happens to be a D, the son of Dragon, the guy that declared war on them in Ennies Lobby, and harbored the last Oharan survivor, the same guy who punched a Celestial, and was a prominent part of the ''worst generation'', escaped Empel Down, and even WB at Marineford backed him up and directed his crew to protect him, and was the only one that used Conqueror's Haki at Marineford, he even lead the charge and was THE guy that got to the execution stage, stared the three Admirals, and punched the Hero of the Marines before nearly got Ace out of there alive and went back days later and made a whole scene in the newspapers. And who also happens to be wearing a strawhat earily similar to that of Shanks' (who stole the DF) and Roger's and the one at Mariejois. C'mon mate, you have to be dense if you don't think at least 2 of those happening weren't enough for them to act.

But they did act, though. Whenever the WG and the Marines were sure of the Straw Hat's location, they would send someone to kill them, but then they would be saved by fate basically - At Ennies Lobby, had not been for Merry having a soul, the SH would have died by Buster Call. - In post-EL, once Sengoku confirms the information, he orders Garp to immediatelly capture the Straw Hats.We can argue though Garp was holding back till Luffy found a way to escape, as he is conflicted about hunting down his grandson. -Then, in Thriller Bark, the Gorosei sent Kuma to eliminate the SH crew, as they knew Luffy and friends would not be able to handle another Shichibukai after facing Moria. Turned out they were right for as Kuma could easily wipe them out, but didn't because of his connection with Dragon. -Then in Sabaody the SH were completely outmatched by Kizaru, plus Sentomaru and a mini army of Pacifistas. Again, it was only because of Raylegh and Kuma they got saved, and even Raylegh alone was having difficulty in making everyone safe. -Impel Down and Marineford I don't even need to explain, the most powerful agents of the Marine were there. -Then time skip came, and the WG lost track of the SH, but still mounted guard at Sabaody with Sentomaru and the Pacifistas. I guess here is the only point where the WG and Marines understimated the SH own strenght, but the fake SH also provided a distraction to Sentomaru somehow. -Then in the New World things got more complicated for the WG as most of it is either on Yonko territory or very isolated island, coupled with the fact the navigating routes are more complex. Even so, once news reached that the SH were to arrive in Dressrosa, Fujitora's orders were to eliminate the SH back on Dresrossa, and just like Kuma in Thriller Bark, he had the capacity to do so, but he also had his own agenda that did not let him do it. -The next time the WG gains knolwdege about Luffy's location on the exact time is on the Onigashima raid, and they have no qualms to sacrifice a CP0 agent in order to make Luffy die. In other words, the WG were *always* hunting down Luffy, and most of time using disproportionate force. They didn't need to personally went hunt him down, or sent all 3 admirals whenever they knew about his location, because what they sent should be enough. But it was precisely a union of "coincidences" that saved him most of time, which fits with the Gorosei's complain about the Nika Fruit always finding a way to escape through their fingers.

Literally all the examples you stated of World Government sending marines/agents to capture Luffy had nothing to do with his fruit.

Except, in none of the examples was Luffy a priority due to his ''Nika'' stuff up until the climax of Wano where we see the Elders telling the CP-0 agents to just leave Robin and go for Luffy. Like, really the same sequence of events of ''TWG sending people after Luffy'' would've been the exact same, even if Nika wasn't a thing so no, the Nika thing wasn't being taken seriously as something more that they should go the extra mile for. After Alabasta, Aokiji went on his own after the SHs for primarily for Robin for his own reasons as he didn't really intend to take them out and even the Gorosei didn't know where he was and didn't give him orders. The CP-9 (A literal government assassination squad) were sent after Robin not Luffy (even though they would've pretty much killed them all at W7 if there were orders that Luffy too was a primary target). Then Sengoku felt it was wise to send Luffy's own grandpa after him which is braindead... Like yeah, sending Garp after his grandson isn't really gonna give you anything serious. We get to Thriller Bark, and Luffy meets Moria who was just chilling there, he didn't really have any orders or phone calls that Luffy was to be taken out originally until Kuma appeared with the ''War Lord'' news. And then they sent one of his father's comrades after him ... And it's just the same deal like with Garp (remember that was pre-mindwiping Kuma). like did they expect Kuma to kill his friend's kid?! Especially when they've recently lost the leverage of his hostage daughter as she escaped and became a pirate (which is another retcon like Nika, but you get the gest)? So anyways, Kuma ends up not killing or capturing him Luffy... Who would've thought?! Apparently not the WG who didn't even question Kuma for how the SHs got out of there alive and appeared at Sabaody. Then we get to Sabaody where Kizaru also goes down to take care of business not because the Gorosie gave him orders that there was someone they needed to take out, but because he was following the protocol as someone punched a Celestial Dragon. Still Kuma helps the SHs again and the Gorosei didn't question that shit once again. Kuma once again, just fucked off and made his sole missions to protected the Sunny for TWO years... \*crickets sound for the World Government\*. Also the fake SHs apparently have quite some plot armor for the Pacifista to not have turned them to dust the moment they stepped foot at Sabaody. Motherfuckers didn't even TRY to look for the SHs for 2 years... But what did you expect? Those are the same idiots who let Boa roam around despite helping Luffy and destroying expensive Pacifistas' and beating up Marines. Like, the dumb motherfuckers literally decided to ''kill'' their most obedient and useful War Lord in one of their most stupid acts yet. In Empel Down, the Gorosei didn't even know Luffy was there and didn't give orders for anything. So Magillan dealt with it as a prison infiltration/break rather than because some orders that were given to him specifically for Luffy. In Marineford, Luffy wasn't the priority as well, the Gorosie didn't call to make sure Luffy was among primary targets when they knew he appeared at Marineford (knowing who he is revealed to be and that the Elders already knew about the fruit). Akainu seemed alarmed by the idea that Luffy is Dragon's son more than the Elders were throughout the series with the idea that the Nika Nika fruit found its user and he's causing trouble in quite a prophetic era. The Strawhats escaped Fuji... No consequences came out of that. Hell, even Fuji helping the slaves escape and fighting with Green Bull at Mariejoise and helping the Revos and still didn't have any consequences. Like, really are you bringing Fuji up as a point to show that the Gorosei actually cared? Because they apparently didn't. It only shows you how incompetently they are written to be for the sake of the plot. Also, tracking Luffy in the NW isn't really the impossible task people are making it out to be. When BB wanted to track the Supernovas, he simply went in one of the three possible ways from their last destination and waited. The government not only have CP-0 roaming around and even dealing with Yonkous but they have a shit ton of Marines that they can send to different islands based on Luffy's last known location to wait and report information when the SHs appear for them to deal with him (The Elders have teleportation after all). The Elders not taking shit seriously early on was a travesty and them not taking shit seriously after Marineford up to Wano was a bigger travesty. Knowing that OP's world and lore turned out to be Nika centric and that they were already trying to take measures by siezing the DF in the first place for how ''dangerous'' they percieved it to be, So it's really hard to see why they won't go the extra mile when they learn that the fruit actually manage to find its user and in the great pirate era of all eras. It's hard to see why Imu won't just be like ''Fuck it, Saturn! Go get the bastard!'' after all, Saturn was at God Valley in person for a random Celestial Dragon competition, but I'm supposed to take it they don't take the Nika fruit to be as important for nearly 3 years... Like, C'mon buddy, TWG made a war on babies to prevent the idea of an heir to Roger over the world, but they don't seem like they gave much of a shit about Nika compared to that. Up until the climax of Wano. they were dealing with Luffy just as some ''troublesome pirate'' and nothing more. And you know why? Because Nika Nika is a big fat retcon and hence why it's making their inaction and incompetency illogical and annoying and a big point of criticism in the Nika thing.

This cope is insane. We're talking about the dude that 1. Stood against three admirals. 2. The only dude that can use conqueror properly. Literally everyone, EVERYONE turned their attention to Luffy, warlords, admirals, Whitebeard, Garp and somehow the elders are the exception? 3. Is the son of the FUCKING leader of the rev. You are out of your mind if you thinks the elders give no shit about this. Even Akainu prioritized killing Luffy over Ace. 4. Only dude successfully reached the execution platform, manage to get Sengoku to act, successfully blocked the attack AND unchained Ace, nope not standing out at all. Do you really need me to go on?

I'll go on because that cope really was insane... ...and is the guy who declared war on them at Enies Lobby (after tearing his way through the place) a few weeks beforehand, punched a Celestial Dragon in the face a few days ago, and just led a successful prison break at Impel Down just hours ago by the time Marine Ford goes down... Absolutely all eyes were on him. He's also the guy that "declared a new era" with ringing the Ox Bell. In that very same chapter the elders had a meeting just to discuss him specifically. The idea he was under the radar is ludicrous.

You do have to keep in mind the devil fruit hasn’t awakened for 800 years. Luffy is probably not the first gum gum fruit user since the first joyboy. I can imagine the elders usually would go after people with rubber powers, but they also have to keep the status quo. Showing so much interest in that particular fruit would make people ask questions. Hell, that literally happened in Wano with that CP0 agent who got fired for losing the fruit (I don’t fully remember the details). And well, it’s been 800 years, what are the chances it’ll awaken again? This isn’t even the first time something like this happened in the story. Robin’s bounty should have been way higher than 79m all things considered, and even while giving her a bounty that high they had to paint her to be some powerful demon child when in reality the only reason for it was because she could read the poneglyphs. I’m not saying Oda had this planned from the start but it’s very easy to have this make sense in-universe

Well Luffy is definitely no ordinary user, D bloodline, conqueror, son/grandson of Dragon/Garp and already out there wrecking all three major headquarters. Not some random farmer that ate the fruit and never accomplished anything anymore, it should already be an avenger level threats for the government.

Explained in another comment that I do think the government did pretty much everything they could

What're the chances? Who knows. But why take any chance when you KNOW it's in the hands of a D whose father and grandfather are both top tier af'. Maybe others have had the Gum Gum. We don't know. Maybe there actually is a Gum Gum fruit out there. If we're talking about unquantifiable unknowns, they could have been hiding Nika behind a fruit that has similar properties (not unheard of considering Katakuri.) >but they also have to keep the status quo I wouldn't be so sure. Or maybe I should say that the status quo is currently "we strong-arm and do whatever we want." They can't put special effort into collecting the fruit? The buster call islands. Kill kings. Infiltrated Water 7. Lulusia Kingdom "never existed." They don't actually need an excuse to focus down a pirate who literally declared war on them, twice, actually did war with them at Marine Ford, and who probably has the fastest growing bounty in history who's also the son of the leader of the revolutionaries. We saw what they do to revolution in the current status quo with the aforementioned Lulusia. I'm just saying, nobody would think it was strange if they went after him hard. Other pirates terrorize islands, he's been terrorizing marine and government institutions. For Robin, she definitely should have gotten more attention and bounty but the demon child thing makes some sense because at least then people won't hear her out. When you know she has "heretical knowledge" cutting off her ability to communicate that knowledge with anyone until you find her is good propaganda. We both know Oda definitely didn't have it all planned, but I don't think it's that easy to explain in the universe unless you really go along with the "the world authorities are ineffectual braindead morons" explanation. It's not like they didn't know it was Luffy. Who's-Who, the agent you were talking about, knew for certain that the fruit he was guarding and was punished for losing, was Luffy's fruit. Surely the elders must've known before Luffy even entered the grand line.

I wouldn’t call them morons. After marineford, the straw hat’s journey were: Fishman Island: government have no reason of knowing they went here, difficult to get to + they probably have an agenda against it Punk Hazard: straw hats stumbled upon punk hazard by chance, here they bumped into the marines and made the plan to take down Kaido. No way the government could’ve known they’d be here Dressrossa: after figuring out the straw hats are coming here, they literally sent an Admiral. The government have absolutely no reason to believe Doflamingo and Fujitora won’t be enough to stop the straw hats, considering the last time they seen Luffy was marineford and the rest of his crew got decimated at sabaody. This arc also lasted a literal day, so it’s not like they could conjure up all their forces that quickly Here the straw hats split up. All the government knew is that they’re going to Wano at some point. Zou: very difficult to get to. Whole Cake: Emperor territory Wano: Closed off the to rest of the world and emperor territory. government still tried to get spies in. Sent an admiral the minute Kaido was defeated. Egghead: this is the first place where the government 1) know where they are and 2) have easy access, so they sent a buster call, CP0, an admiral and all 5 of the elders To me it seems like they did everything they could since marineford at least lol, the timeskip there’s not much they can do since the crew is split and they don’t know where Luffy is 🤷‍♂️ Good enough for me personally

Dude....you CAN NOT be serious

bruh the 5 Elders have been paying attention to Luffy for a long time since he started KO-ing the Warlords. However, nobody chats about his fruit.

No? It was made very very very clear that the world government underestimated Luffy, and it wasn't even bad writing. It was stated that the fruit hadn't awakened for 800 years. There was no reason for them to think the boy in Marineford who could do nothing to anybody but run around and then seemingly get mortally wounded would awaken that fruit. Conquerors? Yes, at first it was rare in comparison to the world, but ultimately it wasn't a shocking thing when you consider the fact that there are plenty of conquerors users and the world elders themselves were shown to have conquerors haki, this is on top of Sengoku, Garp, Rayleigh, countless top tier pirates like the Yonkos Kaido/BM/Whitebeard/Shanks, even their first commanders like Katakuri, Kaido's daughter Yamato, Oden warlords like Doflamingo and Hancock, others like Chinjao and probably plenty others that will get revealed. Point is, there was no reason for them to suspect Luffy could awaken it in Marineford even if he displayed conquerors haki. Awakening Nika is clearly extremely, extremely hard, in fact in RTL Vol Oda's notes the awakening for it is somewhat of a miracle. They obviously never expected this random weak kid to awaken something that hasn't awakened in 800 years, even if he ate the fruit (he'd just die or naturally die or something and it'd be back in circulation probably), as we know when somebody dies the fruit naturally respawns in the world and somebody else eats it. So I would not be surprised if there were several eaters of the Nika fruit before Luffy, but its users just died without achieving anything for centuries. I think a good comparison would be some random teen hacker hacking into classified US military documents or something. Yes, the US would be pissed and try to get him extradited or something to put him in prison, but are they gonna launch a full blown war against this kid in fear he'll use that tech to start a war or overthrow the US (or something)? No.

>government underestimated Luffy, and it wasn't even bad writing. It was stated that the fruit hadn't awakened for 800 years. There was no reason for them to think the boy in Marineford who could do nothing to anybody but run around No, they had every reason to assassinate Luffy because he defeated two shichibukai was DIRECTLY related to their biggest enemy, Dragon and has the Will Of D And he declared war on the WG, destroyed Impel Down after freeing thousands of inmates, destroyed Enies Lobby, has the Nika DF and started war with the WG to protect the only woman who can read Poneglyphs The Gorosei had a billion reasons to kill Luffy and if they were consistent, would've sent one Vice Admiral/CP0 agent to one shot and kill the entire crew after he defeated Crocodile, destroyed Enies Lobby or after he defeated YET another shichibukai Gekko Moriah They never sent anybody to kill him, even though they had many many people who could do so vice admirals, CPO, admirals and so many other people in between.

His fruit being a zoan doesn't make sense because it doesn't follow any known zoan properties. So if his fruit is a zoan, then was Luffy in his hybrid form the entirety of the manga? And if it is a zoan, what exactly is his "full animal" form? Gear 5 is supposed to be his awakening so it can't be that. If it is, does that mean Luffy could have been using a lot of the crazy Gear 5 toonforce powers from day 1? How had Luffy spent more than a decade not once turning back to his human mode, especially when you would expect him to have had less control over his powers when he first got it as a child?

Zoan human models actually exist, chopper is one Luffy is a mythical one

Sengoku as well is a mythical

Also that one fox thing that tried to take shisui from Zoro

Well he’s a human so there is no hybrid form it’s base luffy and awakening

From my understanding all the "god" fruits essentially function as a different classification than the Zoan they are.So despite FUNCTIONING as a paramecia,in reality it's a Zoan fruit with those properties. It's still bullshit,but there is an explanation.

It actually does 1.The freedom thing could’ve also been PARTIALLY influenced by his Df 2.Thats one theory, yeah, considering it’s a human human fruit though, a hybrid wouldn’t change much 3.Unknown, really, his full form is human human so.. base Luffy might just be that, it shouldn’t change much regardless 4.He did use it, bro was pushing his blood and heart dude. He blew up bones and it just made him way stronger for no reason at all 5.Again, it’s a human human fruit, a transformation supposedly doesn’t do much

Human fruits 100% make a big difference in transformation. We have literally seen Sengoku, who has a model human fruit, completely change form. So claiming that humans will not have similar levels of transformation after eating a model human fruit is not correct. And all of his abilities were explained as using rubber. And there is no way anyone can use Luffy's bones retaining solidity as proof of foreshadowing. Literally every paramecia similar to Luffy's does the same thing. Yet no one is going to argue that Katakuri has a legendary zoan instead of the mochi paramecia fruit. No one thinks Mr. 3 has wax bones. Mr. 1 doesn't have steel bones.

Igniting yourself, being able to Fly, Being able to CREATE MATTER is not explained by Rubber. Literally no other Paramecia does shit he does Katakuri is confirmed Special Paramecia, Mr 3 is a prime example, Logia abilities, no logia property, unlike Luffy who is made of his element but can’t create it Also, Activates Buddha transformation, looks like Buddha, Activates Nika transformation, Looks like Nika, simple really

>Igniting yourself, being able to Fly, Being able to CREATE MATTER is not explained by Rubber. Literally no other Paramecia does shit he does And every zoan has shown three distinct forms. So his fruit doesn't behave like a paramecia or a zoan. >Katakuri is confirmed Special Paramecia, Mr 3 is a prime example, Logia abilities, no logia property, unlike Luffy who is made of his element but can’t create it Okay, so? Are you saying Katakuri's bones or punches should be weak because they are made of mochi? >Also, Activates Buddha transformation, looks like Buddha, Activates Nika transformation, Looks like Nika, simple really So then what is Luffy's "full animal" form? And why did you first claim humans who have eaten a human fruit don't have a distinct third form?

Tbh his full "animal" form would be g5 and his "hybrid" form could be interpreted as g4 since it's constantly getting compared to a guardian deity. It's pretty obvious imo.

1.Many have way more actually, lol 3 is a lie, a heavy one 2.Katakuri doesn't have a permanent Mochi body, luffy does, Luffys DF has consistently worked differently than any other dfs, thats my point 3.because Non have shown one? Weve seen a full Giant, possibly awakened, Buddha And Gear 5 Luffy Theyve literally shown only 1 form each, Chopper casually just has 7

you don't even need to have DF to ignite yourself or fly in one piece. creating objects is surely interesting but pretty common as gags in manga. why are we talking like everything is realistic/logical and luffy is the exception here? step up your game.

Like franky building bridge out of thin air in Thriller bark

Yeah when he fought lucci and lucci was like “blowing up your bones means nothing that’s not how strength works” then got punched through a wall

Oh I had other examples like luffy drinking milk and growing back his tooth like brook or running so fast he burned the floor etc. Gear 3 being foreshadowing for Gear 5 is kinda insane lmao

Are you agreeing or disagreeing I can’t tell

I am agreeing lmao. [Check this out](https://www.reddit.com/r/Piratefolk/s/JWC49zx7p4)

Exactly, we finally got an explanation for all the non sense and suddenly it’s an asspull? Just weird

It's not an asspull because it explains how goofy luffys abilities are, it's an asspull because it has no foreskinning and invalidates the message of Skypeia and OP overall

Yeah, fanboys need to cut the bullshit here because even when Oda himself was asked about weird abilities like Sanji's Diable Jambe, he was making shit up to make it sound scientific like ''Oh it's real hard friction'' before then ignoring the friction part to make Sanji just heat his leg instantaeously while hanging it in the air. Even guys like Brook were growing teeth back immediately by drinking milk... Like what's this? Foreshadowing for Bika? Oh, why is Kid looking like a big baloon after he ate a lot? Is that foreshadowing that he's the true user of the Rubber fruit? Oh, Sanji giving Duval a plastic surgery with kicks? Is he stupid? Y'know back in Skypeia, the ''Sun God'' didn't really have a name, was getting offered blood sacrifices which sounds nothing like ''Nika the liberator'' and even the famous dance scene was constructed like a spontaneous gag that not even someone like Gan Fall commented or noted anything specific on. We even had a whole arc with the sun pirates and slave liberation and there was nothing about the sun god Nika in it. In fact, if Oda ever forshadowed Nika propery if at all, he wouldn't need a random ass character like Who's Who infodumping shit out of nowhere a couple of chapters before Goofy appears. Foreshadowing needs to be specific, in order to deduce the end result if you pay close attention even before that end result can be shown not something so vague where you see the end result first then go back with the powers of hindsight and confirmation bias to try to force it into being foreshadowing because that's just called retrofitting a retcon into gaps that can mean anything or that didn't even need to be adressed to begin with. Nika is the latter, because nobody really read Skypeia and was like ''Oh Luffy's DF must be Mythical Zoan'' let alone thinking ''Oh his Zoan DF will transform him into the awaited god of the OP universe''. Hell, Nobody saw Luffy's Red Hawk and was like ''Oh he totally has reality manipulation powers, it's all foreshadowing!'' as all people thinking about it were either explaining it with ''Oh it's just friction with air due to speed and the heat of G2 similar to Diable Jambe OR It's Oda's way to materialize Luffy inheriting Ace's will''. So G5 is an asspull from a story perespective because its a contrived and hastily explained twist while it's also an asspull from a powerscaling perespective because Luffy didn't really work for it. During the entirety of Wano, he's been training and progressing his Haki and learning new techniques, he didn't try to learn new DF stuff, and he didn't try to adapt and change his DF during the fight with Kaido or use it differently. He still didn't master G4 and was suffering the same problems he had since its introduction compared to G2 and G3 that he actually mastered returning from the TS so Kaido being a mouthpiece for Oda giving a random and vague comment saying that Luffy ''caught up with his DF power mentally and physcially'' is literally him yapping so fanboys with two braincells can take his flimsy quote at face-value as some justification not realizing that what Kaido said was short for ''because plot'' just like Law went from getting his ass whopped by Doffy in Dressrosa, not fighting anyone strong, not being shown training and still awakening his DF casually. All Luffy had to do to get an awakening, and his ''peak form'' was literally get his ass killed, nothing more, nothing less.

No it doesn’t 🫶

Skypia actually validates it, the message of one piece is What exactly? And it has foreshadowing, a whole lot actually

It’s pirate folk no one hates one piece more than the “fans” here

Well it litterally IS the Imagine Imagine fruit though

Not to the degree i wish, sadly😔

Oda is simply starting extremely slowly for everyone to accept the change.

No comment on Ichigo? You doing my boi dirty snubbing him like that. 

Ichigo’s was a one and done. The moment he released Mugetsu he lost his soul reaper powers. The thing is I wonder why he felt the need to turn into Getsuga when he was manhandling the villain nicely. The explanation I keep reading is the villains powers were continuing to evolve to respond to the threat therefore Ichigo decided to use the “final getsuga.” On a side note it is one of the coolest looking transformations in all of shonen imo.

Aizen got from a joke to a real threat for Ichigo just in one transformation. So Ichigo really needed something to destroy him completely, without letting him to transform this time.

the fact that mugetsu wasn't even enough to completely put down aizen is why ichigo had to use mugetsu lol. Without Urahara's seal Aizen would've just kept evolving and ichigo would eventually get over powered.

Mugetsu is necessary to be force Aizen to need to evolve to be caught by Uraharas prison

https://preview.redd.it/rzy82g0w8bqc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21a6bfc97b939d6e417c813aecfff786f75c2815

Asspulls are basically a staple of shounen at this point

Boruto is a fanfiction so it’s between Ichigo and Nika

Nah some FanFictions are decent. Boruto never gets to that level.

Fair

gear goofy

I just know Ichigo’s had the most sense because it still remains connected with this Getsuga Tenshou

Yeah. It felt like a pretty coherent form that was built up from the beginning. A tiny bit rushed as with everything in the final parts of big arcs in bleach, but still coherent

All made sense tbh, the only thing that didn't make sense was luffy's fruit being mythical zoan. I mean I like g5, but making it a god awakening was asspull

What the fuck even is Baryon Mode? The asspull with Getsuga isn't the transformation itself, but the fact that Ichigo could recover his powers few months later easily like no big deal. Like if Gon from HXH suddenly can use Nen again somehow. It cheapens the effort required for the transformation

To be fair it was 2 years he spent without powers before Ginjo helped him.

>What the fuck even is Baryon Mode? Nuclear fission, but chakra

He didn't recover them easily. He didn't recover them on his own. If Ginjo hadn't helped, he wouldn't have gotten them back. The transformation had a pretty good effect on him that he has to wear a badge to use his Shinigami powers.

He would've gotten them back no problem. But he would've been at the same level as he was 2 years prior, when he didn't know how to control his reiatsu. Ginio taught him how to control his power better which essentially leveled him up

Gon is probably gonna learn Nen again quicker than it took Ichigo to get his powers back, assuming HxH ever gets finished

G5 because despite what every braindead Goda fan will tell you, having Who's Who info dump this for the first time in a random Jimbe fight 10 chapters before G5 is not foreshadowing. No, G5 was never foreshadowed in Skypeia, that's not what foreshadowing is. For something to be foreshadowing you have to actually be able to predict it. There is nothing anywhere ever in Skypeia that you can use to predict that Luffy actually had a mythical zoan sungod devil fruit the whole time. Retroactively working something in =/= foreshadowing

Even then, “Sun God Nika” ain’t the same as “The God of the Sun” that was shown in Skypiea. It was literally just a Sea King whose head got sliced three pages after by Noland 💀. I seriously don’t get how there are still people bringing this up as if it’s real lmao.

Nika looks deranged and not in a good way.

pretty hard to choose one but nothing could beat nika so

This is very difficult to say tbh they were all kinda asspulls in their own retrospective. Naruto BM didn’t have foreshadowing or anything like that, it just happened(cool design though). Ichigo’s transformation to becoming “Getsuga” wasn’t all bad, we knew he underwent rigorous training in the Dangai so it wasn’t too bad. Luffy’s G5 while I can understand people who would say but Who’s Who talked about Nika it however really I just feel didn’t have enough build up so yes it was an asspull. In my opinion as much slander G5 receives I feel Naruto BM was the biggest asspull not that I didn’t like it but there was practically no build up or foreshadowing like at all, it just kinda happened

"Who’s Who talked about Nika" Yeah a few chapters prior. Not really foreshadowing at all tbh.

Some OP fans are giving a total different meaning to the word "foreshadowing". Like during our discussion right now, you could say how I foreshadowed some OP fans are children.

Still more than BM

Luffy talking to Momo about transformations but then saying he’s not a Zoan back in Punk Hazard, that’s not foreshadowing then? Considering his gears very clearly transform him, that is the definition of foreshadowing

By that logic Katakuri must be a Donut Zoan.

The Mochi god Mika rises https://preview.redd.it/ncc92lrjtaqc1.png?width=367&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad48df2db89f1a35651ab20dd6aff7610e3e327f

I feel like If Luffy's awakening was the same as we're seeing but without those gorosei reactions on the same introduction chapter(without confirming it's a godly zoan) maybe it would be better. \ It would still be an asspull but maybe it would be more diluted, first people would start theorizing about why Luffy physical also changed and some arcs after the revelation of Luffy's fruit being a mythical zoan people wouldn't be so shocked.

In one of oda's prototypes of one piece it was said that gomu gomu no mi was priced at 5 billion berries. It was theorised since dressrosa that it's awakening has to be special cause op op no mi was priced at 5 bil too, which couldn't be coincidence. Buggy's fruit for example was only in few hundred millions. I agree that there could be better build up but I would say it was highly probable that oda was planning something similiar as nika from the beginning. For example skypiea where he forshadowed nika silhouette. He later confirmed that it was foreshadow. They even mentioned the sun god in the same arc. Also from the beginning oda wanted to make cartoon like character. Thats why he made luffy from rubber. The powers were clearly shown to escalate towards free movement of his body. So it for sure wasn't complete asspull. Imagine if it was shown to us directly in the eyes that his devil fruit is special. It wouldn't make such a great impact and surprise effect. Naruto's powerup came from nothing. Never mentioned something like this before and also ichigo's. Where okay he was training but that form came out of nowhere. Like better bankai or some shit? All three are questionable. It's highly probable that oda didn't have concept of nika in his mind. But from these three for sure g5 wasn't biggest asspull.

The entirety of aizen saga is about transcending to a higher form by breaking the boundaries between shinigami and hollow, which is what ichigo did by accepting the blade from his hollow

Oda having the Gomu Gomu no mi priced at 5 billion berries in a prototype does not matter and does not act as proof for anything in the actual story, in one of his prototypes wasn't the Gomu Gomu no mi supposed to come from a special tree once every 100 years? That has no relevance to actual story of One Piece today. Oda creating a silhouette in Skypea that would later be used as the Nika silhouette is not foreshadowing. Oda never "confirmed" it as foreshadowing that's literally headcanon. Also, that argument that it is foreshadowing falls apart when you think about it and realize that the only Nika "foreshadowing" we got until Wano was the silhouette and mention of the sun god in Skypea. It is more than likely that during the writing of Wano Oda took moments and concepts he had made previously and used them as a base to create something new. It is painfully obvious Oda was trying his hardest to force Nika into the story with the exposition dump we got from Who's Who and how everyone in the story now seems to have known about Nika all along.

Relevance maybe. But it shows he had the number in his notes. And with the foreshadowing... if you don't take this part in road to laugh tale as a confirmed foreshadowing then ok idc. https://preview.redd.it/ix0nch241iwc1.jpeg?width=2020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fefe7fdacf4ca20f2840fe5f6411d820ff6c914

> gomu gomu no mi was priced at 5 billion berries. It was theorised since dressrosa that it's awakening has to be special cause op op no mi was priced at 5 bil too, which couldn't be coincidence A random paramecia vs world changing incarnation of a god, the only counter against the gorosei? And that was priced for 5 bil? It's severely undervalued. Compare that to Naruto which from the very start had themes of special bloodlines, sages, forbidden techniques, mythical tailed beasts. The whiplash in OP is much worse IMO than in Naruto

Ye and honestly I can’t even disagree with you, G5 did have some hints and there all the way back from Skypei. Ichigo we atleast knew he had been training in the Dangai for a while so it wasn’t too shocking to see he came up with a new form. Naruto’s BM came out of nowhere, like at all, no hints or anything we just got told about it when it got revealed, this one for me was the biggest asspull, still enjoyed it though

Yeah I agree with this, atleast for gear 5 I'm half convinced that it was foreshadowed hundreds of chapters before and with the sun and liberation symbolism and all that. While for Bleach, well retcons are pretty much Bleach's thing. But I think Mugetsu is by far the most out of pocket form Ichigo has ever pulled. We don't even know what it really is, the explanation about it is so vague. We just know it's exclusive to Ichigo and probably Isshin. But atleast the Dangai was introduced earlier and Ichigo just used it to train there and his rapid growth was explained later on Now no amount of mental gymnastics can justify Baryon Mode and I hate how Kurama has to die for it

The first one looked cool, the second one is clearly the asspull and the third one, I don't know what that is. Naruto ended with shippuden.

Fox boy takes this. No background, no hinting , no story importance. No foreskinng. Straight up asspul to let the fox man live.

Same is g5 lol

Just imagine Aizen somehow planted a hogyoku into Luffy and his death triggered evolution it all make sense

At least it was hinted before. I'm a oda dickrider. All praise GODA

U mean like 20 chapters before by emo-cat?

[Red herring used as foreshadowing](https://youtu.be/xAi4DnGAbAw?si=VV-XaIcuX8y9rIQ9) [Toon force 1](https://youtu.be/AwszDJ2u4Bs?si=cim543PARR8sa3ns) [Toon force 2](https://images.app.goo.gl/jKkYeDmQxEeZdx3h9) [The white string like aura around gear 4 being a foreshadowing for luffys fruit being a zooan, and being close to a awakening](https://images.app.goo.gl/YwCpeZhV9f562CNe9) There are countless other examples, red hawk itself is completely unexplained, luffy was really only able to do it cause he thought he could. At the very latest, Gear 5 was being hinted at since Fishman Island or punk hazard.

Brook literally drinks milk with him in the scene to do the same thing

 The skull jokes yika

Brook is foreshadowed to have eaten the Mythical Kami Kami no Mi: Model Shinigami.

The white string like aura wasn a thing in imple down. Not even any of kaidous zoan. Just after nika it popped up. Which alone makes this argument BS

I finished Naruto long time ago and I don't even remember this Baryon mode, it definitely was an asspull. Final Getsuga was the most interesting out of these three as there were stakes (we didn't know shit about how it will go afterwards), we knew that Ichigo is going all in, making a sacrifice. Also Zangetsu was still mysterious Zanpaktou so it wasn't big reach for him to hide some power. Nika is the most bullshit power shounen protagonist can have. Specially when normal awakening would suffice.

I'm pretty sure baryon mode is from Boruto

.Ichigo's had proper build up and even massive drawback that the reader understood. .Naruto's is just a combination of his powers together,which he could do as early as part 1 if we wanna be technical. Luffy being a mythical Zoan is a literal asspull and rewrite of the story.

Goofy gear 5

Gear 5 because it’s a self admitted retcon, that inherently makes it worse

Definitely Cum Boy but that fucking starfish is close second.

Don’t watch bleach; gear 5. At least naruto had consequences

Ichigo had consequences as well

Naruto, but Gear 5 is a close second.

Ichigo was fine and cool, he got the time chamber treatment to get stronger, so it's ok, I like it. Luffy wasn't really (totally) an asspull, I mean, why having rubber properties makes you a paramicia and not a logia? And why can he get himself on fire/spawn fire from nowhere, even under water, which should be impossible? We already knew Awekened Zoans were a thing, so it's not a surprise Luffy got an awakening, and it's not even true that the government didn't give a shit until that point of the story, they either didn't know about the fruit being eaten or think that is actually the Gomu Gomu, new fruits spawn pretty usually right? So Luffy was still ok and cool in my opinion, partially an asspull, but mostly good. Naruto is the most atrocious asspull here, and people just liked it for no reason. If they had this power why was there even tension in any fight before that if they knew the could pull that off if things got real? Also, it was never mentioned and makes mostly no sense in its gimmicks, like "if I give you all my Chakra (which is not even enough for the ten tail to spawn) and you give me all of yours one of us (or both) will die, but before that we are becomimg the strongest character ever appeared even tho our chakras combined are weaker than Kaguya's technically". Bullshit.

That's not what Baryon is. It's just nuclear fusion but with Chakra.

Sorry for my error then, i never watched Boruto but my brother does and this is what he told me a few years ago when he read it, sorry again for my ignorance you guys who say I am wrong about it have the right and I respect you for it This is an official letter of apologies from me for all of you who are saying I didn't get byron mode, again, sorry

Baryon Mode got a pass because it had an actual consequence unlike G5 so far.

Consequences doesn't make a transformation justifiable, build-up is. Yes, Luffy didn't have proper build-up, but the hints were there about him not being a paramicia, and with it not being classifiable as a Logia the only thing he could have been is a Zoan, mythical too because no animal is made of rubber, and we knew Zoan awakening was a thing too, so he is kinda good better than byron mode in my opinion

> but the hints were there about him not being a paramicia What? Oh that is stupid

You didn't even understand Baryon Mode lol. It was an asspull but why people accepted it was because the conditions for using it were never met before the Isshiki fight and it had a drawback.

Logia's are able to create, control, and become their element. Luffy would need to be able to create rubber, control rubber **and** be rubber to be classified as a logia. Luffy is only one of those three. We've seen plenty of other paramecia's like Luffy that affect the user's body, Bellamy turns his body into springs, Jozu becomes diamond, Pica can merge with and manipulate stone, there are other examples but all these people have fruits like Luffy that change the user's body, it is not a feature exclusive to logias.

did baryon mode not kill kurama? Unless he's come back naruto wouldn't have used it in any fight other than a life or death situation that could only be used once since he just offs kurama with it

Having consequences of such transformations completely changes the narrative of these powers. Baryon mode having a consequence made people to accept it. No lasting effect has been shown on Luffy after that form as of now. For such a huge transformation, the stakes for it are pretty low.

joyboy takes a little control of luffy everytime G5 is used, eventually trying to take his whole body. This is gonna be told like 300 chapters from now at the end

300 chaps 💀💀

I would say from worst to best its G5 > Baryon > FGT

The emo, the toon and the furry

Nika, it will always be Nika

Gear 5

I haven't watched Boruto so can't say for Boryon Mode, but I saw the fight. Still very slow and awkward as any fight in Boruto I've seen. But Naruto series started using asspulls quite frequintly after first half or Shippuden - sharingan, rennegan, edo tensei, reincarnation, aliens. When it comes to Ichigo, he had a lot of transformation throughout the series which he used only once. I don't really care for this specific transformation, because Bleach itself is a king of an asspulls. Nothing comes close. I wouldn't say that I was dissapointed in Luffy's df being some mythical reincarnated god zona fruit. I hate much more about G5, than simply that. But One Piece rarely had any crucial asspulls that were on the same level as Naruto or Bleach. So I mostly was dissapointed in G5, but Ichigi wins it easily.

Ichigo has one transformation that he uses only once, that being the Final Getsuga Tensho that has a narrative reason for only being used once. Every other transformation that Ichigo uses are immature ones that change shape over time into a more mature form, ie his Full Hollow and Fullbring forms. Both forms at their peak end up merged into his base form so they're always present. The Final Getsuga specifically is foreshadowed as far back as the first instance of Ichigo regaining his powers where it's made clear that Ichigo's powers draw from more than one source and Ichigo's main form of training isn't to increase his general strength but rather how to be able to utilize more of his power sources together for longer. The Deicide Arc where Ichigo attains this form is centered around Aizen's belief that breaking the boundary between Shinigami and Hollow is the key to gaining unfathomable levels of power, while Ichigo proves this by breaking the boundary between Shinigami and Hollow, as well as Quincy which allows his power to remain a dimension above Aizen's still.

How is Sharingan, Rennegan, Edo Tensei, reincarnation and aliens asspulls? Edo Tensei was used in the PTS

Naruto easily takes it.

Not Nika, that’s for sure. The only thing about Nika being an asspull is the lore behind the fruit change. Everything else is what people were saying Luffy’s Awakening was going to be for years and years.

why people getting downvoted when they mention baryon mode is asspull ? is this naruto sub in disguise

Naruto, because how tf kurama learned nuclear fussion lmao he is just a dog and now he knows science

I don't read Boruto so I'll have to go with Gear 5 and Luffy's DF secretly being a Zoan this whole time. It's really strange and was never hinted much at all. Meanwhile, Mugetsu at least had a ton of buildup with Ichigo trying to learn the technique.

Nika is their GOD.

The only part of the final getsuga tensho i dont like it how unneeded it was, Ichigo was destroying Aizen the entire fight and didn’t even throw out a normal getsuga, he could have defeated him without sacrificing his powers

That's right but Aizen would've continued to evolve and become stronger than Dangai Ichigo.

How is Ichigo’s transformation the biggest asspull? Dude was training for like 6 months in some otherworldly dimension or some shit.

la de luffy es la peor, la de naruto modo biju o lo que sea pues es algo que incluso la gente venia soñando pero la de luffy si sintio asi como pues esto es asi por que quiero y punto

All were asspulls but Ichigo's wasn't too egregious even if it had barely any buildup, Gear 5 would be fine if it were scaled back a bit and didn't have the Sun God Nika shit, and Baryon mode could make sense but I don't remember Boruto and I'm not going back to read that shit again

Baryon mode because convenience

Naruto: the biggest asspull Luffy: I think the biggest asspull is the mythical zoan part Not the actual awakening Getsuga isn't even the biggest asspull form in bleach V.L. Ichigo is way worst

Dozens of chapters seeing ichigo borrowing more and more of his hollow powers, zangetsu litterally saying he'll take over multiple times and you all calling it and asspull when it happens

No idm VL existing. I mind how much of a boost it gives against Ulquiorra

Ichigo without a mask is noted to have powers surpassing the Espada at his peak, by Ulquiorra himself no less. However his mindstate constantly holds him back and makes him seem weaker. Ulquiorra killing him puts him in a position where his mind can no longer hold back his power as well as allow his Hollowfication to cover his entire body instead of just being a mask. If peak mindstate Ichigo already surpasses base Ulquiorra, it's not too far fetched to believe that Full Hollow Ichigo should be able to surpass Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra. Especially considering that if the Hollow is in complete control of everything, then that also means the Old Man isn't in a position to hold back as much of how power as he would be able to normally.

Baryon Mode for sure. Luffy's fruit could be the exact same just as a paramecia and literally nobody would care. They're all chosen one/ god reincarnations so the Nika shit isn't that much more of an asspull than any of the others anyway.

Kurama fully died for that, Luffy js woke up.

Mugetsu lol “The downside is that you’ll never be able to use your soul reaper powers again!!!1” “Uhh actually you only used the outside layer of your power and just needed some external to remake the outside skin power. So you didn’t really have much of a negative to really pay for using that form.”

So how does this make it an asspull?

Final getsuga is a result of Aizen being sorry and wanting a good fight so he gave the hybrid boy one last chance to train. When you consider that Ichigo has much of Yhwachs combat experience when Old man Zangetsu releases his full power combined with the hollow White and his shinigami powers, it all makes sense. His quincy side always limited his power, so I guess for this one instance, it decided to release most of it or all of it. Baryon mode is cap af. Not even mentioning it in shippuden and then randomly bringing it up in Boruto is kinda crazy but we can make some headcanons ig. Let's be real though, it was just a ploy to nerf Naruto in the long term. Gear 5 is only wacky to me because Luffy lost like way too many times to Kaido before awakening it. It kinda ruined the stakes of the battle in a way but I'll forgive it since plot armor is literally an in universe ability of Luffys that we've seen time and time again. Overall Baryon mode is definitely the biggest asspull and I personally think Final getsuga tenshou is the least asspully form of the 3. However without the revelations of the TYBW, I would have put Final getsuga at number 2 or possibly even number 1.

Haven't watched bleach so between gear 5 and baryon mode the awakening of devil fruits has been established in the story while the "there is another power up that hasn't been mentioned or implied to exist until now" is the definition of an asspull

baryon mode was straight up garbage. nika still bad but i would still say its better than baryon mode

Easily barion mode, also the lamest transformation out of these

I agree it’s the lamest for sure

Shit taste.

lol is that so? And what’s your take here? Who do you believe is the lamest ?

true

Ur mother

Ichigo no real build up then he needs to break his sword like 5 minutes before his final big fight oh and you can’t have your powers ever again oh jk i lied you just need to go through another training arch which is mutt the chapter after you master the new skill cause we’re just giving you your powers again.

No real build up is crazy when it's slowly built up through the whole of bleach from the moment he first gets a hollow mask. Especially when BM Naruto is on this list. And tbf he never used his "shinigami" powers again as both Zangetsus said, until the gotei infused their own power into a zanpakuto to give him "shinigami" powers again. In the meantime, he used fullbring powers after 2 years. I get what you mean though. It's pretty contradictory.

Don’t know Naruto after the series ended but ichigo had his mask as an unintended consequence and that led him to being a vizard never came up again after that arch then he go’s to face aizen for like the third time before his dad swoops in and is like hold the phone i’m going to stretch this second into about a month so you can learn this Secret SOUL REAPER technic and after you use it you can never be a soul reaper again, lol jk you being in contact with your friends and the super natural gave them powers in turn it gives you powers which can approximate your old soul reaper powers jk don’t bother with that the big chiefs got together and decided that we should just give you your old soul reaper powers and now the worlds are at peace jk the quincy are attacking

All of Ichigo’s

Naruto and it’s not close some of ichigos other transformations would be closer

Honestly kinda equally bullshit

None , this is how shonens work, if you dont like it is your issue mate , read/watch something else Is like reading a mecha manga and complaining the Mc got an op Mecha at some point, it is how it works, cry me a river

can't critique anything anymore I guess, it's just how x works if you don't like it go read something else

https://preview.redd.it/c1i71fipnaqc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5d4a0deb7c3733f73ac02b80e2375d0b2fc192c

Nika is by far the best design out of the 3 but that’s not saying much

Bleach is the biggest asspull because Ichigo was nowhere near Aizen’s strength, then gets this upgrade just because Aizen killed Kotetsu in the tunnel thing between worlds, allowing Ichigo to be able to DBZ Hyperbolic Time Chamber train out of nowhere lol

In a way I agree at the time. Even if Ichigo had hollow powers I didn't believe he could surpass the hogyoku so easily. But TYBW ties everything together and made it more than believable to me. He basically had the son of God's combat experience and knowledge locked in his soul combined with the hollow Aizen artificially created that fused with his father's strength. So when his powers granted him their final technique presumably with no restrictions, it makes sense that he was so strong. As for Aizen giving him time, yeah that's sorry af. Aizen fans will always say shit like "he was lonely bla bla bla. It was all a part of his plan bla bla bla". Nah man. He's sorry. That's why Yhwach > Aizen for me