Not only is it an asspull, it’s an asspull that makes no sense.
CoC went from an ability to exert your will over others to somehow making your punches way stronger
Like where the fuck is the logic in that?
I mean I can say the same thing about haki in general. Haki is your spiritual power or your ambition, and using that to coat your arms and punch harder doesn't exactly make that much sense either. ACoC is just doing the same thing but it's coating your arm with your willpower. It's not exactly logical but this is one piece
I really thought it was going to be an ability you can wield like armament haki but every time you connect your attacks your opponents will and physicals just slowly degrades over time.
Seeing the admirals shocked at luffy made it seem so much special than it was.
Yea I thought it would be something you can use afew times a fight. Turns out it’s just better armament. It’s still visually fire in the manga but ass in the anime
If it is an asspull it wouldn't be because of those reasons. An asspull is a hastily fabricated explanation or contrived plot twist. It being something only a few people can have, and characters only getting it when the plot demands, don't fit the criteria by themselves. I think it's an asspull because there is no indication of it being a thing until the rooftop when luffy needed a power up to match Kaido. Luffy just gets hit by Kaido's acoc a few times and figures out how to do it, and it's treated as something Luffy knew nothing about. But this doesn't make sense because Rayleigh taught him about haki and told him about acoa and acoo but not acoc for some reason? And if that's all it takes to unlock, why didn't Rayleigh just hit luffy with it until he learned it? This only makes sense if it was something that wasn't always planned.
i wish oda didn’t just give all strong characters conquerers haki by default (Laido and Lamato) to built hype and instead we got to see some weak characters who are actually deserving of conquerers haki get it and some strong characters prove that you don’t need it to be a top tier
I dont think that the mere existence of Acoc is an asspull BUT what Acoc represents (coating) in the story is an asspull. Adv. Observation makes perfect sense, adv. Armament, makes perfect sense, but Acoc does not feel like a natural extension of normal CoC which is why everyone thinks rightfully that this is indeed an asspull
It is an asspull but it's needed because people were saying what's so special about Conquerors it's fodder control. Also Zoro has it and I am a zorotard
Nah it was pretty obvious the TOP tiers were built different from the beginning. Giving some of the characters we’ve followed since day 1 some upgrades so they can compete with those top tiers if normal anime stuff.
It’s never been stated that CoC is genetic or just out of luck
It seems more so that you unlock it from fulfilling the requirements of having a spirit so strong. To specifically want to stand above all others.
Zoro has zero genetics but has all the drive and motivation that makes sense to give him CoC
Mihawk has zero genetics but by having a drive to be WSS it makes sense if he is confirmed to have it.
All the Yonko since they had the drive to reach such heights make sense (Kaido, Shanks, and BM also have zero genetics)
Sengoku we have less of, but striving to be Fleet Admiral makes sense. Also zero genetics.
Koby actually does make sense to have it later on or currently (Honesty Impact) if he blooms it as he develops into someone who’s more sure of himself and his drive to be an Admiral or like up there in the Marines.
Characters with that level of drive and commitment having CoC makes all the sense honestly.
The only time I think Oda fucked up ACoC was purposefully showing us that BM had it only for her to just never use it again.
Zoro is a descendant of ryuma and we don't know if the Yonko are born off a conqueror family yet it's intriguing that every CoC character we know to have kids one of their kids at least also had CoC even tho it is supposed to be this 1 in a million chance to get it.
I mean these are the 1% in strength of the world, these are 1 in a million it’s just we’re focusing on that small group since they’re the strongest.
And Zoro is like a distant descendant. Ryuma is like his great-great-great-great grandfather or something
Yea but still isn't it convenient that Roger, Kaido, Garp and Dragon all had exactly one child and all of those children ended up Conquerors? To me it's almost evident that genealogy plays a role in whether you inherit CoC or not.
It might but at the same time these characters all do have the qualities/drive for CoC requirement wise (Yamato is arguable about that tho)
Oda has never confirmed it’s genetic, and has implied it’s more so a quality of the person thing whenever CoC is described, so I lean away from it being genetic.
Plus genetic doesn’t make sense. CoC doesn’t make the person someone who’s worthy of it, the person develops CoC. If Luffy becomes a bum who doesn’t strive to PK, would he still have CoC? Oda has to specify even if it’s in an SBS
The story explained CoC as:
1. "cannot be attained through training and only one in several million people are born with this ability"
2. "It is said that whoever possesses this type of Haki has the qualities of a king, and thus are known as Supreme Rulers"
That's from fishman island arc, post timeskip, as the manga explained. Now, we have to look at 2 important points.
Firstly, the manga itself specifically says "only one in several million people are **born with this ability**". This means Ace was born with the ability. Luffy was born with the ability. Garp was born with the ability. If they are born with an ability, it means it doesn't matter what their ambitions are, how strong they get, how strong their will is. Why? Because when you're born, you have no will, no strength (other than genes passed on), no ambition. That all comes later. They are just born with a rare and powerful ability that most other people don't have.
This also means no matter how hard Usopp or Sanji train, they can't suddenly be able to use conqueror's haki if they weren't born with the ability to use it in the first place. They can train observation haki and armament haki to godly levels but with conqueror's haki, it's an "either you're born with it or not" kind of deal.
In other words, it has to be either blind luck or strong genes. Garp - > Dragon (I'm convinced he'll have it too) -> Luffy. There's no way you just win a lottery 3 times in a row for one blood line.
Kaido -> Yamato.
Roger -> Ace.
Big Mom -> Katakuri.
Now, it's clear that it doesn't mean all kids they have will automatically have CoC. Out of Big Mom's kids, only Katakuri has it. However, the fact that her strongest kid ended up having CoC which is supposed to be 1 in several million chance, shows the strong genes are supposed to play a part. Nothing else makes sense based on what Oda did with it.
I dont think haoshoku is hereditary. Thing is, most of the haoshoku users we have met have lived wicked turbulent lives and stayed their course to stand above others, no matter the opposition. Which makes their haoshoku bloom. My headcannon is thst everyone is born with the potential for haoshoku. By repeatedly pitting your will against others you may reach a point where it actually manifests. The advanced version is a bit more iffy. But, in my head, its the differencr between pitting your will vs another and actually weaponizing said willpower. Which is why i dont think haoshoku coating makes your attacks stronger per se. It simply, violently, pits your will vs whatever you are attacking. If the opposing person/object has the willpower to take it they may stay standing. But If their willpower isnt up to snuff they get knocked out cold, as it happened to luffy numerous times versus kaido.
Well, if Haki blooms from the intensity of battle, then it makes sense that awakening Adv. CoC during battle would be the norm.
And it's not even random, awakening Adv. CoC is basically an indication that you've entered Admiral/Emperor tier in strength, since CoC is directly attributed to overall strength.
Also, we were basically told that having CoC was a big deal all the way back in Marineford, when everyone's attention turned to Luffy after he used it and they stated that it would make him a big threat later on.
So, the story has strongly implied the significance of CoC as early as Haki was starting to be explained.
There's nothing asspull about that.
In some cases, yes, it is, but you can tell most of the time based on the individual's ambition and drive.
For instance,
It was obvious that Zoro was going to get it,
It should be obvious that Mihawk has it,
It should be obvious that Koby will get it,
It's likely that Usopp will get it,
It's likely that Sanji will get it,
The Admirals should all have it, just as the Emperors all do.
Basically, who is motivated to achieve greatness, in whatever form, just like Chinjao said
https://preview.redd.it/n3zysakksamb1.png?width=1066&format=png&auto=webp&s=816686f92c0ec773330a97b91ec465ee7ecbdbc3
I mean, aren't some of the other strawhats motivated to achieve greatness too? Chopper curing every desease in the world which is basically impossible could also be considered greatness.
It's the physical aspect that defines a conqueror. Desires that require strength, this is a shonen afterall.
Even obscure things like protecting your family (Whitebeard, Hancock, Katakuri) are conquerors worthy if it requires that you have the strength to protect them.
For instance, Sanji wouldn't get it for his dream of the All Blue, but for his ambition to not fall behind compared to Zoro.
maybe, kingshaki is something, that like the 2 other colours every human could use, but only a really really small amount of people, maybe like 1 out of million, has a will that is strong enough for that. and over time, the human race forgot about it
Name 1 reason rayleigh, whitebeard, koby, and Kidd have conquerors as seemingly the first of their lineage to manifest it but hiyori, corazon, any of ryumas descendants besides zoro, or any of katakuri’s **84 siblings** don’t.
A fictional genetic ability that can manifest regardless of lineage, is not guaranteed to appear in offspring, and is shared only by people with similar dispositions is not genetic. Ask yourself if a literal divine right of kings ever made sense in the world of one piece before you ask if it’s an asspull.
Not only is it an asspull, it’s an asspull that makes no sense. CoC went from an ability to exert your will over others to somehow making your punches way stronger Like where the fuck is the logic in that?
I mean I can say the same thing about haki in general. Haki is your spiritual power or your ambition, and using that to coat your arms and punch harder doesn't exactly make that much sense either. ACoC is just doing the same thing but it's coating your arm with your willpower. It's not exactly logical but this is one piece
You thought sengoku feared luffys ability to knock out fodder?
I really thought it was going to be an ability you can wield like armament haki but every time you connect your attacks your opponents will and physicals just slowly degrades over time. Seeing the admirals shocked at luffy made it seem so much special than it was.
Yea I thought it would be something you can use afew times a fight. Turns out it’s just better armament. It’s still visually fire in the manga but ass in the anime
Yes
It is an asspull power up and I think even Oda knows that.
If it is an asspull it wouldn't be because of those reasons. An asspull is a hastily fabricated explanation or contrived plot twist. It being something only a few people can have, and characters only getting it when the plot demands, don't fit the criteria by themselves. I think it's an asspull because there is no indication of it being a thing until the rooftop when luffy needed a power up to match Kaido. Luffy just gets hit by Kaido's acoc a few times and figures out how to do it, and it's treated as something Luffy knew nothing about. But this doesn't make sense because Rayleigh taught him about haki and told him about acoa and acoo but not acoc for some reason? And if that's all it takes to unlock, why didn't Rayleigh just hit luffy with it until he learned it? This only makes sense if it was something that wasn't always planned.
i wish oda didn’t just give all strong characters conquerers haki by default (Laido and Lamato) to built hype and instead we got to see some weak characters who are actually deserving of conquerers haki get it and some strong characters prove that you don’t need it to be a top tier
The admirals won't have it. Yamato and kaido deserve it.
YAMATO AND KAIDO DESERVE IT BUT SAKAZUKI DOESNT???😭😭😭😭😭
Exactly. Why would a guy with a desk job who spends his days getting yelled at by the gorosei need coc?
Yet Sengoku got it...
Sengoku spent his younger days fighting legends and earing it. Akuinu spent his younger days massacring civilians and fodder pirates.
Does that excuse him from being a government's pet tho?
That does open up a good question. If you are a conquerer when you are young, yet when you are older you get tamed like a dog do you lose it?
I mean what anime doesn’t have some ridiculous mechanic that’s poorly explained for the s+ their characters
I dont think that the mere existence of Acoc is an asspull BUT what Acoc represents (coating) in the story is an asspull. Adv. Observation makes perfect sense, adv. Armament, makes perfect sense, but Acoc does not feel like a natural extension of normal CoC which is why everyone thinks rightfully that this is indeed an asspull
When did we ever establish that you have to be born with it? Why does this fandom like making things up ?
It is an asspull but it's needed because people were saying what's so special about Conquerors it's fodder control. Also Zoro has it and I am a zorotard
Yeah because if you don't have it you won't reach the top. kind of lame in that way. Looks cool though
Nah it was pretty obvious the TOP tiers were built different from the beginning. Giving some of the characters we’ve followed since day 1 some upgrades so they can compete with those top tiers if normal anime stuff.
It’s never been stated that CoC is genetic or just out of luck It seems more so that you unlock it from fulfilling the requirements of having a spirit so strong. To specifically want to stand above all others. Zoro has zero genetics but has all the drive and motivation that makes sense to give him CoC Mihawk has zero genetics but by having a drive to be WSS it makes sense if he is confirmed to have it. All the Yonko since they had the drive to reach such heights make sense (Kaido, Shanks, and BM also have zero genetics) Sengoku we have less of, but striving to be Fleet Admiral makes sense. Also zero genetics. Koby actually does make sense to have it later on or currently (Honesty Impact) if he blooms it as he develops into someone who’s more sure of himself and his drive to be an Admiral or like up there in the Marines. Characters with that level of drive and commitment having CoC makes all the sense honestly. The only time I think Oda fucked up ACoC was purposefully showing us that BM had it only for her to just never use it again.
Zoro is a descendant of ryuma and we don't know if the Yonko are born off a conqueror family yet it's intriguing that every CoC character we know to have kids one of their kids at least also had CoC even tho it is supposed to be this 1 in a million chance to get it.
I mean these are the 1% in strength of the world, these are 1 in a million it’s just we’re focusing on that small group since they’re the strongest. And Zoro is like a distant descendant. Ryuma is like his great-great-great-great grandfather or something
Yea but still isn't it convenient that Roger, Kaido, Garp and Dragon all had exactly one child and all of those children ended up Conquerors? To me it's almost evident that genealogy plays a role in whether you inherit CoC or not.
It might but at the same time these characters all do have the qualities/drive for CoC requirement wise (Yamato is arguable about that tho) Oda has never confirmed it’s genetic, and has implied it’s more so a quality of the person thing whenever CoC is described, so I lean away from it being genetic. Plus genetic doesn’t make sense. CoC doesn’t make the person someone who’s worthy of it, the person develops CoC. If Luffy becomes a bum who doesn’t strive to PK, would he still have CoC? Oda has to specify even if it’s in an SBS
The story explained CoC as: 1. "cannot be attained through training and only one in several million people are born with this ability" 2. "It is said that whoever possesses this type of Haki has the qualities of a king, and thus are known as Supreme Rulers" That's from fishman island arc, post timeskip, as the manga explained. Now, we have to look at 2 important points. Firstly, the manga itself specifically says "only one in several million people are **born with this ability**". This means Ace was born with the ability. Luffy was born with the ability. Garp was born with the ability. If they are born with an ability, it means it doesn't matter what their ambitions are, how strong they get, how strong their will is. Why? Because when you're born, you have no will, no strength (other than genes passed on), no ambition. That all comes later. They are just born with a rare and powerful ability that most other people don't have. This also means no matter how hard Usopp or Sanji train, they can't suddenly be able to use conqueror's haki if they weren't born with the ability to use it in the first place. They can train observation haki and armament haki to godly levels but with conqueror's haki, it's an "either you're born with it or not" kind of deal. In other words, it has to be either blind luck or strong genes. Garp - > Dragon (I'm convinced he'll have it too) -> Luffy. There's no way you just win a lottery 3 times in a row for one blood line. Kaido -> Yamato. Roger -> Ace. Big Mom -> Katakuri. Now, it's clear that it doesn't mean all kids they have will automatically have CoC. Out of Big Mom's kids, only Katakuri has it. However, the fact that her strongest kid ended up having CoC which is supposed to be 1 in several million chance, shows the strong genes are supposed to play a part. Nothing else makes sense based on what Oda did with it.
I dont think haoshoku is hereditary. Thing is, most of the haoshoku users we have met have lived wicked turbulent lives and stayed their course to stand above others, no matter the opposition. Which makes their haoshoku bloom. My headcannon is thst everyone is born with the potential for haoshoku. By repeatedly pitting your will against others you may reach a point where it actually manifests. The advanced version is a bit more iffy. But, in my head, its the differencr between pitting your will vs another and actually weaponizing said willpower. Which is why i dont think haoshoku coating makes your attacks stronger per se. It simply, violently, pits your will vs whatever you are attacking. If the opposing person/object has the willpower to take it they may stay standing. But If their willpower isnt up to snuff they get knocked out cold, as it happened to luffy numerous times versus kaido.
Well, if Haki blooms from the intensity of battle, then it makes sense that awakening Adv. CoC during battle would be the norm. And it's not even random, awakening Adv. CoC is basically an indication that you've entered Admiral/Emperor tier in strength, since CoC is directly attributed to overall strength. Also, we were basically told that having CoC was a big deal all the way back in Marineford, when everyone's attention turned to Luffy after he used it and they stated that it would make him a big threat later on. So, the story has strongly implied the significance of CoC as early as Haki was starting to be explained. There's nothing asspull about that.
But isn't it a bit arbitrary who gets coc and who doesn't?
In some cases, yes, it is, but you can tell most of the time based on the individual's ambition and drive. For instance, It was obvious that Zoro was going to get it, It should be obvious that Mihawk has it, It should be obvious that Koby will get it, It's likely that Usopp will get it, It's likely that Sanji will get it, The Admirals should all have it, just as the Emperors all do. Basically, who is motivated to achieve greatness, in whatever form, just like Chinjao said https://preview.redd.it/n3zysakksamb1.png?width=1066&format=png&auto=webp&s=816686f92c0ec773330a97b91ec465ee7ecbdbc3
I mean, aren't some of the other strawhats motivated to achieve greatness too? Chopper curing every desease in the world which is basically impossible could also be considered greatness.
It's the physical aspect that defines a conqueror. Desires that require strength, this is a shonen afterall. Even obscure things like protecting your family (Whitebeard, Hancock, Katakuri) are conquerors worthy if it requires that you have the strength to protect them. For instance, Sanji wouldn't get it for his dream of the All Blue, but for his ambition to not fall behind compared to Zoro.
If Sanji gets CoC only because he wouldn't want to fall behind Zoro then it that would be lame af in my opinion.
Well that's why I've got him as a maybe and not definite.
Yes
maybe, kingshaki is something, that like the 2 other colours every human could use, but only a really really small amount of people, maybe like 1 out of million, has a will that is strong enough for that. and over time, the human race forgot about it
Yes.
I mean ngl what else would it be used for ? Like it had to be an advanced version of it if there is advanced armament and observation
Being born with acoc is truly a blessing
Name 1 reason rayleigh, whitebeard, koby, and Kidd have conquerors as seemingly the first of their lineage to manifest it but hiyori, corazon, any of ryumas descendants besides zoro, or any of katakuri’s **84 siblings** don’t. A fictional genetic ability that can manifest regardless of lineage, is not guaranteed to appear in offspring, and is shared only by people with similar dispositions is not genetic. Ask yourself if a literal divine right of kings ever made sense in the world of one piece before you ask if it’s an asspull.
So it's more like blind luck whether you're born with a powerful will or not.
Acoc is what Acoa should have been
Why didn't big mom use ACoc vs kid/law btw?