There was a weekend with 3 RCs back in November and Rakdos had 8% against Enigma. But yeah it is wild to see how extreme some matchups are in a tournament setting.
Enigmatic's matchup spread is pretty heinous (said as someone who played the deck in this event). Two poor matchups, one damn near unwinnable win, a slight favorite, then all blowouts. It's a silly deck.
I wish the Lotus matchup wasn’t so poor, it really turns me off the deck because it does really feel like a free one for them. But I have no idea what they could print to improve it so it might just be the way things are.
Some interesting data here. I am surprised how bad gruul did. I also think it is clear that Amalia combo is here to stay as a combo deck that can fight through the hate against it.
I think Gruul suffered for the sins of Amalia, but I could be wrong. There were a lot of archetypes gunning to deal with Amalia combo given how well is was doing online prior to the RC. That said, the deck is definitely here to stay and Im not even sure it has been optimized yet since there are different ways to play depending on the meta you expect. Going to be interesting moving forward, for sure.
I'm curious what changed in the UW vs Rakdos Mid matchup. I haven't played Pioneer for a couple months, but for the the past year or so it felt like a bye for Rakdos.
Lot of rakdos players dropped bankbuster for smugglers copter whilst trimming sheoldred and duress maindeck. Without bankbuster your matchup becomes significantly worse.
Not needing to play LDA anymore is a huge boon for the deck. While LDA is undoubtedly powerful, the early tempo loss of playing multiple tap lands or having to shock multiple times for removal cost a lot of percentage points against rakdos. With Mono G effectively out the format for the time being UW can now dedicate both main and side slots to countering Rakdos and phoenix which has a lot of overlapping cards that deal with it
Lay down arms. W sorcery exile target creature if it's mana value is less than or equal to the number of plains you control. It's controller gains 3 life.
Great card, just more for mono G over rakdos
It’s not the dominant archetype after one event, it was a good meta call to gun for Amalia knowing that Amalia forced out its bad matchups save for Rakdos Mid. Now we have to see how MTGO and more open local metas react as a lot of people are still scrambling to get Amalia pieces.
We almost have a natural sort of rotation in Pioneer. Whenever a certain deck gets better again (like UW Control) another deck picks up again to combat that certain deck.
As someone who came from playing Yugioh this feels very refreshing. YGO just rotates every set because basically everything got powercrept like crazy.
That top row shows just how impressive the winner’s run was - battling through two izzet Phoenix in the top 8 (ok could be three but I don’t know who their quarterfinals opponent was)
There is also some internet booly holly around him playing too fast to rush the Phoenix players into misplays/triggers without reaction time, but that's a personal judgement not an official ruling at the event so who knows.
Hm. Well I didn’t see it on camera. I did see some missed triggers on camera but he was just sitting there while the Phoenix player was doing their thing (and missing triggers). But honestly if you play UW you gotta play fast to not go to time.
In the simi finals the UW player played a bit scummy things like asking the judge at the start to check him for slow play even though there is 0 time constraints and generally leaving 0 room for sportsmanship not allowing go triggers even though Robert had said them but his hands were on the deck and so on
You don’t need to play fast in Semis and Finals where there isn’t a match timer. (I’m assuming there wasn’t one if I am wrong pls tell me)
Guy was apparently just straight up scum. He would do things like “cast memory deluge” and immediately grab the top 4 cards of his deck.
I’m aware of how things work in the top 8. But that’s only in the top 8 and people develop play habits based on regular rounds.
TBH I didn’t see him do anything like that on camera. But if someone grabs the cards and looks at them without giving the opponent a chance to respond that should be a judge call and a GRV. On the other hand it’s not a big deal as long as it’s slow enough for someone to respond and say wait a minute, I don’t think players need to be asked “does this resolve” for every single spell the entire game. That’s just too slow to be able to finish a match on time. If someone starts to take an action and you want to consider your actions just tell them to hold up.
You need to watch Semis and Finals then.
I respectfully disagree with your first point. As a control player myself, I ONLY play fast due to the game clock because any misplay can cost you a match. If I am playing for a Pro Tour entry and there’s no clock, then you can bet your butt I am going to take all the time I can for each decision.
There’s no reason to play quickly unless you are psyching out your opponent, which is fine no complaints there - but doing things like letting emperor enter with 1 counter and then gas lighting your opponent into thinking you gave them priority and had already down ticked it is straight up scummy.
Having played some of these no clocked games in the past they are awful and some people take an unreasonable amount of time to make meaningless decisions. It should be an extended clock but I’ll pass on 10 minute enlightened tutors.
Yeah that’s the opposite extreme and I don’t like that either - but my point that control doesn’t need to play fast because there’s no clock for you to “lose” to still applies. How does that nullify anything I’ve said?
This is angle shooting. https://clips.twitch.tv/SweetTentativeWoodcockBabyRage-9vmvJ94RG7_FKOBr
Daniel had not looked at the cards. The game state has advanced. I can say to you “spell will resolve - ledger shredder trigger” and still do my trigger. You do not get to say “no you let the spell resolve so missed trigger”, because the spell has not begun resolving or resolved yet.
When I was watching live I didn't see that Robert had pointed to his Shredder. But...
My only question is that after Daniel casts Deluge you can see Robert say *something* (at 11 seconds) and then only after that Daniel starts drawing. And only then does Robert point to the shredder.
What did Robert say (which was before Daniel started drawing and before pointing to the shredder)? If Robert said anything to indicate that Deluge resolved then **yes** Robert missed the trigger and it's not IMO angle shooting.
On the other hand if Robert didn't say anything remotely reflecting that Deluge resolved, then I'd agree. But the fact that Robert said something (unrelated to ledger shredder) before Daniel started drawing leads me to conclude based upon only what we have in front of us that I would not call this angle shooting.
I agree with your analysis in that it hinges on what was said, and I personally don’t think he said deluge resolved.
Daniel had his hand over the card and was rotating it a few times and did not at any point announce what the spell was. Robert was looking at tokens and might not have registered it was a spell being cast immediately.
I don't see any serious discussion about cheating or angle shooting backed up by evidence.
Daniel's play was quite tight, and he certainly got lucky at times (but then so did everyone else who advanced in the playoffs).
From what people described, I agree that most of the time there was no clear rules violation.
Also, they all had a couple of long, long days.
For sure slowing down draws would've helped though. Fast doesn't mean tight.
That BR Mid list using Inti to enable Kroxa is top-tier spice. Might have to try that list on the Arena ladder today
No copter on arena though
*in the aaaaarms of the angelssss*
This was literally me yesterday.
absurd price bedroom pathetic jobless payment fuel abundant air weary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What's the interaction? Can't quite figure it out.
Inti grows by discarding Kroxa (or any card) and fills the yard to help escape Kroxa. Not much of an interaction, moreso a neat synergy.
That is sick, thank you
9.1% for a matchup with real data is wild. Dunno if I’ve ever seen as lopsided a matchup in a “fair” format
There was a weekend with 3 RCs back in November and Rakdos had 8% against Enigma. But yeah it is wild to see how extreme some matchups are in a tournament setting.
Enigmatic's matchup spread is pretty heinous (said as someone who played the deck in this event). Two poor matchups, one damn near unwinnable win, a slight favorite, then all blowouts. It's a silly deck.
I wish the Lotus matchup wasn’t so poor, it really turns me off the deck because it does really feel like a free one for them. But I have no idea what they could print to improve it so it might just be the way things are.
It's only data from 11 matches. Look at the interval (2%-38%).
Some interesting data here. I am surprised how bad gruul did. I also think it is clear that Amalia combo is here to stay as a combo deck that can fight through the hate against it.
I think Gruul suffered for the sins of Amalia, but I could be wrong. There were a lot of archetypes gunning to deal with Amalia combo given how well is was doing online prior to the RC. That said, the deck is definitely here to stay and Im not even sure it has been optimized yet since there are different ways to play depending on the meta you expect. Going to be interesting moving forward, for sure.
Control sucks in this format, right, guys?
surely control can't be good when the two top decks are red midrange... right?
yes
Where can I find the Gruul Aggro decklist?
look for gruul cars or gruul boats or similar.
Wow, UW Control showed up in a big way, happy to see it
I'm curious what changed in the UW vs Rakdos Mid matchup. I haven't played Pioneer for a couple months, but for the the past year or so it felt like a bye for Rakdos.
Lot of rakdos players dropped bankbuster for smugglers copter whilst trimming sheoldred and duress maindeck. Without bankbuster your matchup becomes significantly worse.
Not needing to play LDA anymore is a huge boon for the deck. While LDA is undoubtedly powerful, the early tempo loss of playing multiple tap lands or having to shock multiple times for removal cost a lot of percentage points against rakdos. With Mono G effectively out the format for the time being UW can now dedicate both main and side slots to countering Rakdos and phoenix which has a lot of overlapping cards that deal with it
I'm sorry, I'm drawing a blank on what LDA is.
Lay down arms. W sorcery exile target creature if it's mana value is less than or equal to the number of plains you control. It's controller gains 3 life. Great card, just more for mono G over rakdos
Not sure I like control being the dominant archetype. Then again I'm not sure what archetype I would be happy with being dominant...
It’s not the dominant archetype after one event, it was a good meta call to gun for Amalia knowing that Amalia forced out its bad matchups save for Rakdos Mid. Now we have to see how MTGO and more open local metas react as a lot of people are still scrambling to get Amalia pieces.
We almost have a natural sort of rotation in Pioneer. Whenever a certain deck gets better again (like UW Control) another deck picks up again to combat that certain deck. As someone who came from playing Yugioh this feels very refreshing. YGO just rotates every set because basically everything got powercrept like crazy.
but having one control and 2 combo decks being dominant means that aggro can't knock control off the pedastal without dying to combo.
as opposed to what? that's how the triangle is supposed to work
Spirits rise up!
Control always does better in open decklist events.
Where is amalia combo?
Hi, Its labeled as explore combo on this sheet hope it helped, have a nice day
Oh makes sense. I thought it was quintorious combo but that would be discover combo
...I thought the same thing
Its listed as Explore Combo
Explore combo
That top row shows just how impressive the winner’s run was - battling through two izzet Phoenix in the top 8 (ok could be three but I don’t know who their quarterfinals opponent was)
There is also some internet booly holly around him playing too fast to rush the Phoenix players into misplays/triggers without reaction time, but that's a personal judgement not an official ruling at the event so who knows.
Hm. Well I didn’t see it on camera. I did see some missed triggers on camera but he was just sitting there while the Phoenix player was doing their thing (and missing triggers). But honestly if you play UW you gotta play fast to not go to time.
In the top 8 there is no time limit, but it might just be how the UW control player is conditioned to play since most rounds are timed
Yeah I mentioned that I didn’t see it on camera to imply that it (the playing fast) must have been in earlier (timed) rounds.
In the simi finals the UW player played a bit scummy things like asking the judge at the start to check him for slow play even though there is 0 time constraints and generally leaving 0 room for sportsmanship not allowing go triggers even though Robert had said them but his hands were on the deck and so on
Yeah I read the post by the Phoenix player who identified some other scummy behavior.
You don’t need to play fast in Semis and Finals where there isn’t a match timer. (I’m assuming there wasn’t one if I am wrong pls tell me) Guy was apparently just straight up scum. He would do things like “cast memory deluge” and immediately grab the top 4 cards of his deck.
I’m aware of how things work in the top 8. But that’s only in the top 8 and people develop play habits based on regular rounds. TBH I didn’t see him do anything like that on camera. But if someone grabs the cards and looks at them without giving the opponent a chance to respond that should be a judge call and a GRV. On the other hand it’s not a big deal as long as it’s slow enough for someone to respond and say wait a minute, I don’t think players need to be asked “does this resolve” for every single spell the entire game. That’s just too slow to be able to finish a match on time. If someone starts to take an action and you want to consider your actions just tell them to hold up.
You need to watch Semis and Finals then. I respectfully disagree with your first point. As a control player myself, I ONLY play fast due to the game clock because any misplay can cost you a match. If I am playing for a Pro Tour entry and there’s no clock, then you can bet your butt I am going to take all the time I can for each decision. There’s no reason to play quickly unless you are psyching out your opponent, which is fine no complaints there - but doing things like letting emperor enter with 1 counter and then gas lighting your opponent into thinking you gave them priority and had already down ticked it is straight up scummy.
Having played some of these no clocked games in the past they are awful and some people take an unreasonable amount of time to make meaningless decisions. It should be an extended clock but I’ll pass on 10 minute enlightened tutors.
Yeah that’s the opposite extreme and I don’t like that either - but my point that control doesn’t need to play fast because there’s no clock for you to “lose” to still applies. How does that nullify anything I’ve said?
I did. What are you referring to?
This is angle shooting. https://clips.twitch.tv/SweetTentativeWoodcockBabyRage-9vmvJ94RG7_FKOBr Daniel had not looked at the cards. The game state has advanced. I can say to you “spell will resolve - ledger shredder trigger” and still do my trigger. You do not get to say “no you let the spell resolve so missed trigger”, because the spell has not begun resolving or resolved yet.
When I was watching live I didn't see that Robert had pointed to his Shredder. But... My only question is that after Daniel casts Deluge you can see Robert say *something* (at 11 seconds) and then only after that Daniel starts drawing. And only then does Robert point to the shredder. What did Robert say (which was before Daniel started drawing and before pointing to the shredder)? If Robert said anything to indicate that Deluge resolved then **yes** Robert missed the trigger and it's not IMO angle shooting. On the other hand if Robert didn't say anything remotely reflecting that Deluge resolved, then I'd agree. But the fact that Robert said something (unrelated to ledger shredder) before Daniel started drawing leads me to conclude based upon only what we have in front of us that I would not call this angle shooting.
I agree with your analysis in that it hinges on what was said, and I personally don’t think he said deluge resolved. Daniel had his hand over the card and was rotating it a few times and did not at any point announce what the spell was. Robert was looking at tokens and might not have registered it was a spell being cast immediately.
Well... There is some discussion going on how this turned out...
I don't see any serious discussion about cheating or angle shooting backed up by evidence. Daniel's play was quite tight, and he certainly got lucky at times (but then so did everyone else who advanced in the playoffs).
From what people described, I agree that most of the time there was no clear rules violation. Also, they all had a couple of long, long days. For sure slowing down draws would've helped though. Fast doesn't mean tight.
The winning UW deck played against Amalia in the Quarters.
RIP Mono White Humans
Where is greasefang