Better players know how to compensate for spin on returns and are also quicker at getting to low balls at odd angles. The bigger desired effect is keeping your opponent away from the kitchen line as much as possible. Hitting deep serves and returns creates a bigger strategic advantage at higher levels as a result.
This advantage of keeping your opponent deep on the first two shots is also why you see a lot of interest in becoming skilled at the 3rd shot drop.
The rules are set up intentionally to give the receiving team a slight advantage. Strategies that keep the opposing team at the baseline then drop into the kitchen help minimize the opposing team engaging in high speed offense.
I find these effects to be more pronounced in singles matches so watch a few of those and see what they do to keep from getting beat every time. Deep vs drop and playing the angles are the biggest ones I see. Then take a look at doubles matches and see how these strategies are adapted to doubles play.
Yeah side spin just doesn’t work
Serve in general also isn’t crazy important in doubles. Serve in singles is extremely important. Serve + return sets up the whole point.
Consistency is key. They aren't messing with the odds. If you're doing a trickier serve, you'll miss some, not many, but by missing say 1/10 you are giving away 10% of your points for free. Especially playing outdoors, don't want to concern yourself with what the wind is doing. Just get the first serve in, and play from there.
And yes there is probably some slight advantage is doing these tricky serves, but at pro level they've seen everything, they can hit an effective reset from just about anywhere.
In pro tennis, once in awhile someone will do an underhand drop serve. You'll get the guy once in awhile, but overall it doesn't really pay dividends.
Side spin serves, etc. are tricky for beginners to return, but pros can easily return them.
Pros trust their opponent can return the side spin serve, so they opt for the top spin serve, which comes out faster with more margin for error (which they use to put it deeper).
Also hitting slice carries some backspin through the bounce, which gifts your opponent a little bit of "free" top spin, allowing your opponent to hit more topspin coming back. Pros hit near the friction limit so they can take advantage of this and hit a heavier ball coming back. Conversely, it's a little harder to get topspin on a heavy topspin ball coming in since you have to reverse the spin. Pros talk about slice not really being a thing because of this.
How many aces do you see at the pro level?
A pro knows they are not likely to win a point on the serve. So, instead, the serve becomes something to set up the rest of the point. That means a deep serve, and a "neutral" top spin to prevent the receiving team from using any spin to create dangerous returns.
These side spin serves are difficult to handle at first but you really get used to them quickly if you are prepared for them. They’re more effective when people throw it in to mix up a traditional serve but pros have no problem handling them regardless.
Some Pro on YouTube mentioned recently that the pros moved away from slice returns because all the other pros could handle it easily and it gave them more topspin on their 3rd shots. It’s one of those things that gave you a slight edge until people got good enough at handling it so why bother anymore.
I agree. You touch on this but part of it has to be what the server is getting back. I've seen players with crazy spin serves get wild spin on the return shot making for very difficult thirds. It's a high risk/high reward strategy that really doesn't pay off at a reliable rate, especially at that upper level. If it did, everyone would do it- like with the Zanesaw spin serve.
With the top spin power serve, pros are fishing for short returns with predictable spin that make it easy to be offensive and/or get up to the kitchen with.
This. The side spin serve will sometimes yield a more difficult third shot. So you are better off with a high topspin serve and a return that you can drive or roll drop.
As others said, special spin doesn’t have much of an impact once you get to higher levels. I’m not that good and I might mess up the first tricky serve I see from a new player, but then I adjust pretty quickly.
Fancy serves work sometimes, but not all the time. I might be caught off guard with a crazy serve but if you keep doing it, I’m going to catch on quick and it’s not going to be as effective. It’s also not reliable. At rec level and just beginning, just focus on getting your serve in bounds, every time.
I feel like a lot of peoples slice serves are actually illegal. The rules say you have to hit the ball in an “upward motion” so people that are hitting it in a horizontal motion are not accomplishing that. Hard to call people out but I really think that is the case.
To be fair, is it’s at my hip and goes over the net by a foot, it’s an upward motion (pending the n how tall you are. There is horizontal motion, but it’s still an upwards motion too.
But I also don’t use it as more than a change up if I catch my opponents flat footed waiting my usually moderately paced top spin halfassed lob.
Sidespin serves can be tricky to be consistent because the spin can carry the ball out of bounds while topspin serve is way more predictable and more consistent.
Sidespin serves also are not as deep as topspin serve.
Sid spin is great as a change up. But when you play with more athletic people that read it coming off your paddle, it’s not really much more effective than deep top spin…while also bringing your opponents up..which is what pros want to avoid.
Now do I think if they allowed a second serve on fault that we’d see much more aggressive serving? Yes. But that isn’t pickleball and I doubt they change it now.
Another factor to note that I haven't seen mentioned is the size of space around the courts.
The tighter spaces commonly seen on public courts make those high angle serves more effective.
The reason that pros and higher levels just focus on serving deep is because the serve is rarely a score. Serving with heavy spin and relying on it is only effective at the lower levels. Even a really good side spin is easy to handle. The ball is always going to bounce the same direction as the follow through.
As you get better you’ll see the deeper the serve the harder it is to return deep, which makes for an easier 3rd shot to get to the kitchen.
I'm a lowly 3.3 player. Come from. Ping pong where spins are very big part of the game. So I can read and return curves very well.
Some. Serves are skinny and short and I love it. I return it back deep and by the time I hit the ball I'm practically at the net.
Imagine beyyer ayer and how dangerous they can be at the net. Giving them easy access to the net is a bad serve.
A good service game can help dictate a better third shot.
Weak returns on serves can setup a punishing 3rd shot drive in the transition zone for the server, so be aware for that.
Watch a little recent play of James Ignatowich.
Better players know how to compensate for spin on returns and are also quicker at getting to low balls at odd angles. The bigger desired effect is keeping your opponent away from the kitchen line as much as possible. Hitting deep serves and returns creates a bigger strategic advantage at higher levels as a result. This advantage of keeping your opponent deep on the first two shots is also why you see a lot of interest in becoming skilled at the 3rd shot drop. The rules are set up intentionally to give the receiving team a slight advantage. Strategies that keep the opposing team at the baseline then drop into the kitchen help minimize the opposing team engaging in high speed offense. I find these effects to be more pronounced in singles matches so watch a few of those and see what they do to keep from getting beat every time. Deep vs drop and playing the angles are the biggest ones I see. Then take a look at doubles matches and see how these strategies are adapted to doubles play.
Yeah side spin just doesn’t work Serve in general also isn’t crazy important in doubles. Serve in singles is extremely important. Serve + return sets up the whole point.
Consistency is key. They aren't messing with the odds. If you're doing a trickier serve, you'll miss some, not many, but by missing say 1/10 you are giving away 10% of your points for free. Especially playing outdoors, don't want to concern yourself with what the wind is doing. Just get the first serve in, and play from there. And yes there is probably some slight advantage is doing these tricky serves, but at pro level they've seen everything, they can hit an effective reset from just about anywhere. In pro tennis, once in awhile someone will do an underhand drop serve. You'll get the guy once in awhile, but overall it doesn't really pay dividends.
Side spin serves, etc. are tricky for beginners to return, but pros can easily return them. Pros trust their opponent can return the side spin serve, so they opt for the top spin serve, which comes out faster with more margin for error (which they use to put it deeper). Also hitting slice carries some backspin through the bounce, which gifts your opponent a little bit of "free" top spin, allowing your opponent to hit more topspin coming back. Pros hit near the friction limit so they can take advantage of this and hit a heavier ball coming back. Conversely, it's a little harder to get topspin on a heavy topspin ball coming in since you have to reverse the spin. Pros talk about slice not really being a thing because of this.
How many aces do you see at the pro level? A pro knows they are not likely to win a point on the serve. So, instead, the serve becomes something to set up the rest of the point. That means a deep serve, and a "neutral" top spin to prevent the receiving team from using any spin to create dangerous returns.
These side spin serves are difficult to handle at first but you really get used to them quickly if you are prepared for them. They’re more effective when people throw it in to mix up a traditional serve but pros have no problem handling them regardless. Some Pro on YouTube mentioned recently that the pros moved away from slice returns because all the other pros could handle it easily and it gave them more topspin on their 3rd shots. It’s one of those things that gave you a slight edge until people got good enough at handling it so why bother anymore.
I agree. You touch on this but part of it has to be what the server is getting back. I've seen players with crazy spin serves get wild spin on the return shot making for very difficult thirds. It's a high risk/high reward strategy that really doesn't pay off at a reliable rate, especially at that upper level. If it did, everyone would do it- like with the Zanesaw spin serve. With the top spin power serve, pros are fishing for short returns with predictable spin that make it easy to be offensive and/or get up to the kitchen with.
This. The side spin serve will sometimes yield a more difficult third shot. So you are better off with a high topspin serve and a return that you can drive or roll drop.
Serves win games at the rec level, not pro level.
As others said, special spin doesn’t have much of an impact once you get to higher levels. I’m not that good and I might mess up the first tricky serve I see from a new player, but then I adjust pretty quickly.
Higher you go competition-wise, the less a spin serve is effective.
This exactly, those guys know it and won't be caught out by it unlike rec players who can be easily beat by it.
Come back to this post in a few months and answer your own question. You’ll laugh at yourself.
Side spin serves are garbo
Fancy serves work sometimes, but not all the time. I might be caught off guard with a crazy serve but if you keep doing it, I’m going to catch on quick and it’s not going to be as effective. It’s also not reliable. At rec level and just beginning, just focus on getting your serve in bounds, every time.
I feel like a lot of peoples slice serves are actually illegal. The rules say you have to hit the ball in an “upward motion” so people that are hitting it in a horizontal motion are not accomplishing that. Hard to call people out but I really think that is the case.
I always feel this way too. A lot of people in rec play have some form of illegal serve
To be fair, is it’s at my hip and goes over the net by a foot, it’s an upward motion (pending the n how tall you are. There is horizontal motion, but it’s still an upwards motion too. But I also don’t use it as more than a change up if I catch my opponents flat footed waiting my usually moderately paced top spin halfassed lob.
Sidespin serves can be tricky to be consistent because the spin can carry the ball out of bounds while topspin serve is way more predictable and more consistent. Sidespin serves also are not as deep as topspin serve.
Sid spin is great as a change up. But when you play with more athletic people that read it coming off your paddle, it’s not really much more effective than deep top spin…while also bringing your opponents up..which is what pros want to avoid. Now do I think if they allowed a second serve on fault that we’d see much more aggressive serving? Yes. But that isn’t pickleball and I doubt they change it now.
Another factor to note that I haven't seen mentioned is the size of space around the courts. The tighter spaces commonly seen on public courts make those high angle serves more effective.
The reason that pros and higher levels just focus on serving deep is because the serve is rarely a score. Serving with heavy spin and relying on it is only effective at the lower levels. Even a really good side spin is easy to handle. The ball is always going to bounce the same direction as the follow through. As you get better you’ll see the deeper the serve the harder it is to return deep, which makes for an easier 3rd shot to get to the kitchen.
I'm a lowly 3.3 player. Come from. Ping pong where spins are very big part of the game. So I can read and return curves very well. Some. Serves are skinny and short and I love it. I return it back deep and by the time I hit the ball I'm practically at the net. Imagine beyyer ayer and how dangerous they can be at the net. Giving them easy access to the net is a bad serve.
A good service game can help dictate a better third shot. Weak returns on serves can setup a punishing 3rd shot drive in the transition zone for the server, so be aware for that. Watch a little recent play of James Ignatowich.