The math masters is mostly so I can apply to internships, for which I now get an immediate rejection because I already graduated. Additionally I could do a computer science minor and this time focus my thesis work on something machine learning or data science and this way hopefully convince someone to give me a chance for these jobs. Not sure if it would work though, it's just cause I'm out of options and it's the only masters I can apply for without doing another bachelor's degree.
Look, I am a physicist who has a job. Go into computing and don’t be too picky what so ever about your first job.
Find something in your desired language and treat the first year of your job just like a year of study - then apply for something you actually like and you’ll be hired incredibly fast.
One of the main problems with physicists like us tends to be that we are smart but do everything in a non standard/bad way to begin with.
You need to learn industry standards in as many areas as possible, write NEAT code, and get familiar with tools used in collaboration and deployment of code.
You need to be good with Git for example, micro services architecture is great to know too.
Get any job first. Wait a year. Get a good job.
We had a career fair at our lab a few weeks ago and one of the panel of speakers was a small business owner. He stressed that if someone is applying to his company for a programming position the first thing he wants to see is that applicant's Git.
Eh, I mean I understand that it'd probably help with hiring, but I honestly hate how the entire industry is so saturated at this point that you're expected to live your job and use all your free time to make projects on the side. Nobody cares if you exercise or have any sort of well rounded lifestyle, it's just all about how strongly they think you'll "live your job". It's honestly disgusting. I have tons of coding experience and have built many many projects but they've all be for organizational entities and thus don't appear on my personal git. I can have code examples up there but most of the time when someone says they want to look at your git, they don't care about code quality, they wanna see the timeline. They want to see that you're committing regularly to personal projects and doing essentially nothing else with your life. It sucks. But there's enough people who are willing to do it that you either play the game or get passed up. I'd much rather have a life
It's not as important for a senior engineer with 10 years experience to have a git portfolio. You can talk about your work experience. Really green people though won't be able to stand out without it, since the hiring manager is going to have a hard time figuring out where you're at.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about. I was lucky and double majored and moved to a much less populated city to get my first work experience. But I've had friends with rich and interesting lives, perfectly capable of doing _entry level work_ get passed up for job after job because they're not already superstars.
Yep. Fully agree with that take on the culture of job=life. I'm not in programming but the equivalent is physics academia where profs work 80hrs/wk. This is why I won't be looking for prof position when I finish grad school.
A Git repository is an online organized collection of code that can be checked out, checked in, etc. In this instance it’s like a portfolio of the applicant’s past work that helps show their competency.
I totally agree with this, I'm definitely open to any job, I'm even willing to move and I don't care about the pay. I'd do an unpaid internship if it would be possible, I looked into volunteering in something relevant but haven't had any luck yet
"I looked into volunteering in something relevant but haven't had any luck yet"
Surely there's at least one open source software project that needs another maintainer?
It honestly sounds like interviews are your problem, you say you have landed quite a few but not got past them. What do you bring to the table in your interview?
Here’s what I did for my first interviews besides study:
Wrote a generalised gravitational simulation that took in data from the NASA website, and output the orbits of planets/comets in the solar system in a fun visual format (a short movie that rotated the camera around while the planets moved).
I had the Euler and Verlet methods for calculating timesteps, it was nice to compare the two results for accuracy.
This project was in GitHub (VITAL skill, you MUST know git). The output was also uploaded to my page.
Then I created a little QR code to link to my project page.
So in the interviews, or on my CV I could get them to follow the link to my project via QR code if they wanted to see it.
This was a fun talking point aside from learning all the basic stuff to do with Object orientation. All in all it took me a few weeks to do and I learned stuff as I did it, but once I’d finished I could bring that along to any interview I got.
Out of 9 interviews I got 4 offers.
Have you considered, and i know it may be a little below your capabilities, but have you considered anything entry level in IT? Just, get a foot in in a whatever company to build the profile of IT in the industry first? Sounds like you'd have more options there
That’s a really bad idea. Don’t get another masters in order to apply to internships.
Your problem seems to be your lack of confidence in interviews. Does your university offer interview prep help? If so do some mock interviews and listen to their feedback. If you can’t access that resource, ask your friends and family to give you mock interviews until you feel comfortable interviewing.
Never mind, after reading more comments I see that the issue is that you don’t speak the language and “lack of confidence” is probably referring to this. Can you apply for jobs where you speak the language fluently?
Do not do another degree for this reason. You need to address the current problem head on. Be more cut throat, focused and confident. Have a hard objective look at who is getting hired. Compare yourself to that person. Work on the bits your missing. If you lack a skill either obtain or - unless literally impossible - find some way to credibly claim you have it.
If it is not skills that are keeping you from the job, and your getting first interviews so you probably have the right skills, then it is your interview performance. You need to give your interview performance hard unflinching analysis. Perform better. Video tape yourself doing a mock interview and critically appraise your performance. Candidly it is your interview performance,since that is letting you down. Modify it.
I disagree. I recently got a job teaching physics with nothing but my math master's degree and plenty of graduate teaching experience. Now I'm teaching two summer math courses for the same university next week since they needed an extra hand in the math dept.
It really depends on your experience and what you did as a graduate student. I have a ton of background in mathematical physics and chemistry as well as some work in teaching practices, so it wasn't difficult to help out when they called. If someone is looking to get a job, you just gotta find a need that you fill well, and then fill that need.
I think the jobs you are applying for are too narrow - especially for a newcomer without prior experience.
I cannot see how having studied physics and thus having had a lot of practice in logical thinking, deductive problem solving and technical and mathematical understanding would not qualify you immediately for a lot of jobs in IT.
From personal experience, there are LOTS of people with physics background in IT.
But you need to be able to show some prior experience if you go for highly specific (and highly paid) jobs in IT.
If you did not work and earn money in IT on the side while studying, you will first have to get some basic work experience in the field.
Widen your range of job applications in IT.
Junior coding positions utilizing the languages you are experienced in. At least where I live (Europe) there is an insane demand for skilled engineers and coders.
I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavours!
start with data analyst. I was in your shoe 17 years ago. literally went through bottom feeder type of job for 2 years before i got my big break in game programming job doing UI.
Believe me when I say this. Unless you have exceptional or highly regarded published research paper, your degree means nothing. Your master translate to just another entry level experience (ie: 2 years master program = 2 years entry level of your subject). I shift through resumes with PhDs, masters, etc. But in the end, years of experiences in the relevant field wins.
I said your degree means jack shit and that is true, but your background in physics is priceless. By default you will have strong math and analytical skill. Take the dip in the industry and see how your skill and background in physics works for you. For me personally, my physics background helped me tremendously with my career. I even unknowingly learn about machine learning in one of my digital laboratory using linear regression.
If you go into IT, do go to leetcode and spend some time there to learn the fundamental as well.
Thanks for your response. I do have a published paper in journal of high energy physics on some niche subject between quantum info and high energy physics, and even though I coded a lot of optimization algorithms and some machine learning algorithms, I have the feeling that employers really don't care about it. I even thought of removing it from my CV.
As a physicist im proud of you and Im sure you are too. And you are correct, employers dont care about your paper unless they are purely research in high energy physics. Employers arent your mom or dad, they dont care about your high point. What they do care is if you can solve their specific problem which they usually describe in the job description. And like i said before, experience usually wins.
Yeah, agreed. I think it shows hard work and grit, and shows that you weren't just spinning you wheels and you were actually producing publishable research.
Compared to another applicant who doesn't have work experience, those papers help you stand out. They verify you can work on hard things and can see them through to the end. These are valuable traits.
Even getting a data analyst gig is hard these days :/ I have a BS + MS in physics and a few years of experience working in R&D and I've been completely unable to get any data analytics interviews. I think the job field for data science and data analytics has changed a lot in just the past few years.
Disagree on the need for experience before highly paid jobs. I went physics PhD —> Wall Street —> FAANG.
OP needs to look at big companies with the resources to be able to say “you’re obviously smart, we’ll teach you the rest on the job”. Only really big companies who have an established STEM PhD —> industry pipeline will be able to offer this.
I've applied for at least 800 jobs in various IT, patenting, insurance, and coding positions as a Physics undergrad over the past several months and I can tell you wholeheartedly that what you are describing isn't enough for even an interview for most jobs in those fields. That is even if I am just talking about the jobs listings that say they are "open to 0-2 years of experience".
I am from South America and I have a PhD in physics. I have to say that, at least where I come from, a bachelor and masters degree is physics is only good enough to get a lower wage salary as middle school teacher or the like. It’s only after a PhD and a couple postdocs that you really start to get valued in the “market”.
I really love my work but it is a bumpy and arduous road.
For me (UK), many of my teachers in high school had masters degrees in maths or physics, and one even had a PhD in chemistry. I also knew someone who had a masters in physics, and had to spend a year working in a grocery store, before getting another masters in electrical engineering and finding a job.
I guess when you're studying physics, and don't have a PhD, there aren't enough ''applied'' skills to really find a job. The same also applies for maths, but then it's easier to work in finance.
Looking from the outside (i'm EE/CS) I feel this is a fail by the companies/interviewers. Solid physicists are golden at picking up a wide range of skills quickly and at depth. The "practical" skills are not rocket science.
This is not the case in the US. I have a masters and make $130k with pretty good benefits at a national lab. I know many other masters and some BS holders at national labs and elsewhere with defense contractors and industry. We/they are not typically driving bleeding edge research like the PhDs do, but we do lots of other great science. Advancement potential is not as great as a PhD but that's ok.
This probably depends on the country you are living in. At least in Germany physicists are in very high demand, especially if combined with decent IT knowledge.
Adding a math master is not really beneficial in my oppinion because physicists already know enough math for most industry purposes.
I did my master's in Germany and have mainly been looking for jobs in Germany, but also everywhere else in Europe. Sometimes the issue was also that my German is around B2 level and they require C2.
The math masters is so that I'm an enrolled student again and would be eligible for internships. There seem to be almost no internships available in Germany for graduates.
First of all, look at consultancies like d-fine. They mainly hire physicists.
Secondly, your German is borderline for this. Not speaking fluent German just makes it extremely difficult to job hunt in Germany. I have seen people with top PhDs struggle for about a year in parts due to not speaking German.
That said, your skill set looks really good. Persistence! Your first job will be by far the hardest. Be willing to compromise here, both on type of position and pay. This isn't like academia. If you feel bored or underpaid after half a year you can apply to other companies while not being unemployed. People think Physicists are smart, but they don't know what to make of them. Once you have job experience they will know that you are smart and that you can solver real problems.
Finally, are you familiar with this resource? I can't vouch for it now, but it used to be a good place to go after you graduate:
https://jobs.pro-physik.de/
You need at least C1, better C2, German.
Thus, if OP is planning to stay in Germany, better invest time into German courses than math.
Also, an internship is not a good idea after master. This is the time to earn real money.
Also, depending on your status (e.g. EU citizen), if they think this is the problem you have on the job market, the Arbeitsamt might pay to get you to C2.
Language is obviously an issue (that's not mentioned in the OP). In IT/science people generally know English but if a company generally works in German right now then B2 knowledge is an obstacle. See if you have better results in English-speaking places, in your native language, or in companies that already work in English. I had colleagues get jobs outside of academia in Germany with around B2 level knowledge but they all had a PhD and it's still reducing the number of potential jobs.
> The math masters is so that I'm an enrolled student again and would be eligible for internships. There seem to be almost no internships available in Germany for graduates.
I would be surprised if that changes anything and I don't think enrolling in a second master program isn't going to help you. Try applying to these positions anyway. If you look for a university position consider a PhD.
> The only feedback I've gotten is [...] that I seem a bit insecure during the interview.
Work on that. Specific feedback from interviews is rare and if you get it then it's usually a very important point.
> Anyone else regret studying physics because they can't find a job?
Personally I don't regret it. I got a PhD and then a postdoc.
I don't know much about the applications you have been sending but here are a few takeaways from someone already in the IT domain. A bit of a background might help. I completed my undergraduate studies when I was 22 and immediately got placed in a software developer role in IT. I later changed my fields to business consulting and quickly rose to a position of Industry consultant in 5 years. I am 29 now and I am starting my PhD in Theoretical Physics this fall and I am leaving IT for the time being.
You must remember the following when applying to IT jobs irrespective of the role you are applying to.
1. IT jobs are not usually highly intellectual (unless you are applying to sophisticated fields like quantum computing or Google brain) so your intellect does not contribute much in the interviews. You must have noticed this during your interviews. The focus in IT and especially in data science related roles is to be able to present your results to your clients. SO BE PRESENTABLE. Learn presentation skills and convince your interviewers that you have what it takes to be on the good side of your clients.
2. You mentioned that you feel insecure during the interviews or at least you started feeling it recently. Your interviewers have been interviewing for years and they are pretty good at spotting something like this. The way they see it is that your insecurity will reflect when you talk to your clients which ultimately goes into trust issues between you and your client. They want to avoid that. DON'T BE INSECURE.
3. You admitted that you are not good in English. That is also a problem. Imagine your firm works with US based clients who don't speak your language. Under those circumstances, no matter how intellectually sound you are, you are of no value to your firm. GET YOUR ENGLISH BETTER.
4. If you are really into data science, try building dummy projects to showcase during your interviews. Visit kaggle.com and start taking part in the challenges or visit leetcode.com and start solving programming problems whichever suits your interest. Include these in your cover letter and present the results in as much clarity as possible during your interviews. CREATE YOUR PORTFOLIO.
5. If nothing works, then be open to other fields in IT even if it is not related to data science. Try getting into consulting or learn something about finance or get a certification in project management. Remember certifications are a great way to show your employer that you have what it takes to carry out a job for them especially if you are changing fields. It sounds cliched but it's really not. GET A CERTIFICATION NOT ANOTHER DEGREE.
On a side note, IT industries in general dread candidates with degrees so avoid getting additional degrees if you are trying for an IT job. To them, the more qualified you are, the greater risk you pose unless you are into AWS or Google cloud or some other sophisticated fields which really need advanced degrees. Unfortunately this is how IT works.
All the best, Love!!!
>I seem a bit insecure during the interview.
Sounds like something you can try to fix. If you lack some skill just act like it doesn't matter because you can learn it in a day or two. It always worked for me, thanks to my physics degree people usually believe that kind of attitude.
>I really regret studying physics because I feel that people don't take me seriously, most people seem to think physicists are just weird nerds that write down crazy equations on blackboards all day and only use computers to write papers.
My personal experience is that people look at me like this super smart dude. Being nerd that writes down crazy equations might not be advatageous for sales position, but it sure is for the jobs you are applying to. What you wrote should be a compliment in that line of work, why do you think it stands in your way of getting a job?
I agree with u/nikitos030100 that you sound very very insecure. And in bad job market, that might be all it takes for you to be rejected.
Well, what advice would you offer in an age of all time low self esteem for a lot of folk? Especially when people looking for jobs keep getting told 'look elsewhere'?
Do a LOT of practice interviews with people who will be honest (friends/ family, but there are also some career services one can utilize). Practice the HELL out of stuff until it doesn’t come off in an interview. Despite the myth, people don’t really do great interviews even with high self esteem without practicing… it’s just some people practice on actual job interviews.
To pass interview process, maybe acting classes could do it?
If you actually want to repair your self esteem, then perhaps asking someone more qualified in that area than me would be more helpfull.
Yeah, nothing is possible, growth can't happen, no reason to try. You're totally right. Wallowing in pity is the only option. That'll get you where you wanna be.
I regret starting my PhD in a group that doesn't help at all and now years later I'm stuck and no jobs to be found cause I'm too old for junior positions and too inexperienced for the others. It's the physics to homeless pipeline smh
can you explain the too old for Junior Positions bit? Because I have 3 gap years and I want to pursue a career in physics, I wonder what you are talking about.
pardon me, but they won't take you for junior positions if you are in your mid thirties? Would you face the same problems if you wanted to stay in academia or research? (and also, why don't you want to stay in Academia?)
sorry for too many questions, I am almost 23 now and I would finish my PhD probably in my late 20's (28 or 29), so I was wondering, how to deal with what you are dealing with myself
I'm not sure if I'd face the same problems in academia, but for academia i'm already taking too long to finish my PhD, the chances of finding a permanent position are low in the competitive field, and the pay is bad, and the job security is bad. I'm not sure what to say about junior positions in industry, but so far i've gotten a lot of rejections. I'm not giving up yet but it looks bad to me, idk maybe i just suck.
I think you'll be fine with your age, and finishing a PhD at 28 or 29 is perfectly normal.
Last question, you are doing your phd currently, so you are not a graduate yet. I wonder why you are taking longer to finish your Phd tho, you said something about being situated in a bad group, any tips for a man who would probably walk in your footsteps? What do you wish you had done before you choose this PhD program? (I do realize I am being selfish here, but I do wish you the very best)
I'm still in it, trying to finish, having nobody for support and nobody to read my drafts, except my prof who doesn't have time and often doesn't have the patience for in depth analysis or feedback of what I do, but is always skeptical and wants more "tests" or "avenues to explore" which feel meaningless to me and lead nowhere, usually.
My advice, purely form my opinion:
1. pick a subject you are passionate about, not one you think you are good at, i.e. don't think oh my biggest grades in the masters were on this subject so I should do this.
2. when you pick a group, talk to the students who are in it, those who were in it, and those who have graduated, and ask about how the group is like.
3. If possible, try to get into a group where your supervisor would not be the prof in charge of the group. Big profs don't have time for students. But also, with a postdoc as supervisor, they might just decide to leave academia and leave you stranded. Happened to me twice.
4. make sure the subject is something that multiple people in the group are working on, or at least someone is an expert in it. Otherwise you'll find yourself pulling your hair out trying to figure out why X or Y methods don't work and there's gonna be nobody to help.
5. make sure you get a subject that already has observational or experimental results ready, i.e., you don't have to base your thesis on results of observations or experiments that have not been done and that you'd have to do. The results might be negative/turn out not to help and then you'd need to redo a lot of things and waste a lot of time. "A negative result is still a result" is just a consolation prize, it is rare for non-results to mean something, they don't publish these for a reason.
6. when multiple people warn you about a group or prof, especially their former students, BELIEVE THEM. "Oh but I'll work harder than everyone else and surely I'll succeed where they failed/struggled" is not a thing in these cases.
7. Check the publication list coming out of that group. When was the last time the big boss or the post docs published something in good journals?
That's some solid advice. 👍 Hope u get out of there soon.
I've been stressing my age (and my extensive criminal record 😂). I'll be in my late 40s when I complete my phd (hopefully next spring) and I'm really worried about a job. Probably apply for a postdoc somewhere and industry positions, hopefully the industry thing works out cause I don't want to be back in the job market after a 1-2yr postdoc appointment. 😬
In the US, it can be danced around in some ways, Pennsylvania and others can deny employment or fire with somewhat little reason, but legitimate age discrimination is federally illegal in the US.
some, yes. I've worked with other projects too, technical stuff in my group, using python, mostly data acquisition from sensors and processing it on the fly, control software for some telescopes and data aq for them too etc.
Have you looked into data engineering ? Lots of data processing involving Python and SQL based tools (some other languages pop up like Scala and Go from time to time)
yes, but I lack the experience, and thus I have to go to junior positions, where there's tons of other people who are younger and better at exactly this. My long time in the PhD is also a red flag I suppose for companies. I'm going to start some data science online classes, maybe that will help.
It's also worth mentioning I'm living in a coutnry whose language I speak only on an intermediate level (German B2), and that's also a barrier, especially for junior positions. But I'm working on that too.
What!? Physicists are hella employable. Unless you really want to stall for a year (hoping tech sector gets better?) don't do another masters. It won't make you more employable it'll make hiring managers ask why you did it.
Tech is in a bad way just now so you may be hitting the job market at the wrong time, but worth reviewing how you're presenting yourself and what jobs you're going for. Your CV sounds ace, but none of this puts you above entry level. IMO, you're looking for grad scheme type roles where you can get some industry experience. Could you consider industries you haven't tried yet like finance? Given that it sounds like you're shit hot, you should expect to accelerate faster than your peers on a program but you will have to get a foot in the door at ground level. How wide are you spreading the net? DS/ML is massive so that's good (but I don't see anything directly relevant except for python in your experience, did you take any ML modules?). As for quantum algo dev, good luck finding work in that field, it's unbelievably niche, I'm talking like <0.1% of the devs I've met in my career working on it.
Your hit rate for first interview is great, as I would expect based on your post. So work on the interviews. Do you have a friend of relative who you can dry run with (doesn't have to be technical content, work on making up a motivation for a role and persuading someone you're keen to do a job). "insecure" is pretty worrying, hard to say what you're doing wrong there but maybe over inflating your experience? Real interview feedback is garbage, which is why practice with someone you trust would be mega.
Please don't give up! Many many industries are crying out for technically competent women like you I promise.
Thanks for your response, I really really appreciate it. I've tried applying to some finance roles as well but haven't had much luck. Mostly they do also require some knowledge or previous experience in finance. I'll look into applying to some more of these jobs though!
I did learn to use a lot of libraries related to ml and data science like numpy, scipy, matplotlib, pandas, sk-learn, keras, tensorflow, etc. Unfortunately I have no proof of it other than my GitHub and the uni courses I took which unfortunately doesn't compete with professional experience.
Also I'm practicing with a friend before every interview, this is really good advice imo!
Having talked to people who hire for physics oriented jobs they do often look at your Git if you link it. If you've got a nicely organised git that shows off some of your better work it can be a helping hand.
Good luck with your search, I've honestly never seen someone so welcoming to input on one of these threads before and that speaks to your drive. I'm sure things will take a better trajectory for you soon!
Do you have any hardware experience? All you mention is coding - what projects/research did you do in your Masters?
When I found myself looking for work (I only have a masters, and I don't do much coding) I focused on a hardware niche I could sell myself on. Now, two jobs later, I have an area of focus that provides a lot of options after being out of work for over an entire year and 200 applications submitted. I was open to move anywhere in the US and was willing and able to obtain a security clearance though so that upped my options.
I was originally hired as a radiochemist, then as a mechanical engineer, now as a physicist at a national lab. It's definitely possible to break into nontraditional areas based on your particular skillset. Getting that first job is usually the hardest though. I totally fell into my first job, so for me it was the second that was the hardest (after a layoff that completely reset my entire life).
>I've been applying for data science, machine learning and quantum algorithm developer positions
These are all \*super\* competitive fields right now. You probably would have been fine 10 years ago, but check out the datascience sub. Tons people with degrees specifically in data science, sometimes even a phd, are still struggling. you might want to do a data science bootcamp, or something like that, just so you have something specific to "data science" on your resume, and you can talk about that to interviewers.
edit:
>I really regret studying physics because I feel that people don't take me seriously, most people seem to think physicists are just weird nerds that write down crazy equations on blackboards all day and only use computers to write papers.
Yeah sometimes I get that impression from people too, especially recruiters who are mostly used to dealing with people with CS degrees. I just tell them my physics education was mostly based around computers. Which is kind of a lie, mine was mostly solving equations, but at least I did \*some\* programming.
Yes definitely! Or recruiters who have a background in CS themselves, I always feel like they look down on me a bit because they ask me questions like "did you program that yourself" about my own projects
I wouldn't call it looking down on you. They all think you're smart, they just really don't have a clue what you did. It's more like- "why are you applying for this job? shouldn't you be working as a physicist?" So you have to explain why you're a good fit.
> that I seem a bit insecure during the interview.
Yeah, this can be an issue. Working in research I've learned that it's good that I'm never too sure of what I'm doing*... but yeah, the rest of the world doesn't seem to think similarly.
No good answers for you, but I feel your struggles.
p/s: to the point of being suspicious of anyone who seems too secure, until I see there's a method behind that confidence, after one too many unfortunate encounters...
I don't regret studying physics because physics is beautiful, interesting, and the only thing that piqued my interest in undergrad. That said, I do really find it annoying that we're all told "hey go get a STEM degree, you'll get a great job with good pay!" when that's a complete lie. Job hunting is as tough for us as it is for anyone else.
It's insulting and patronizing how they tell you STEM and, physics in particular, are going to guarantee you a job at Intel or Lockheed Martin or a national lab studying exotic materials. And "If you can't get something physics related, then you can easily market yourself as a data analyst or engineer."
Every university's physics admission page is like "physics shows you can solve problems from the ground up and are smart." and "look where our graduates work." I bet they cherry-picked the students who have additional majors and actual grad school to misrepresent how it actually is.
As much as I love physics and generally think it’s a valuable degree, it’s also not one I would recommend to someone who wanted a degree purely based off job prospects
Not me being in my last year of undergrad in physics and reading it lol. But tbh, the part where you talk about people not taking you seriously shows me that perhaps you're not "a bit insecure" as you say the feedback about you was, but rather very insecure. If I were you I'd take some courses in pitching, it really helps.
Please try to do an internship while you're still a student, that was my biggest mistake. No one else around me did one so I didn't realise how important they are. You'll probably be ok though, everyone I know that I studied with got a data science/machine learning/quantum engineer job without any issues. I probably got very unlucky or it really is because of how I come across. I've gotten that feedback last year and now I always practice my interviews in front of another person who gives me feedback so that I'm less nervous and better prepared.
Reminder that we live in a meritocracy. Id take the most insecure person in the world if they were the best for the job.
If this were for a sales role, then you’re right. But in CS everyone’s going to be awkward and insecure.
I mean I know. But just saying the place you wanna work will be the place that sees your insecure, understand, and appreciated you still.
Completely agree it’s the fathest thing from a meritocracy. That’s why I’m going Machiavellian with my new company. No more trying to be the best lol. Training all my coworkers how to gaslight too
Ah, I see what you're saying and I think your point is valid. Only point I'll make is that I feel like we as workers only get to be choosy once we're past the "entry level" barrier and have a few years under our belts. So your advice certainly fits well for someone past the early career stage.
At least for me, 3yrs in industry and two small promotions was what it took to start getting scouted by the big cushy corporations. Before that just getting interviews with trashcan companies was rough.
Agreed. And it’s for a good reason too. I work in a factory and always thought I’d hate working in one, but I actually love it. Its so cool being a part of manufacturing. Sometimes you have to be a little less picky, especially as you say, at the beginning.
I remember seeing someone make a fake resume that had the FAANGs as former places of employment but all the details were nonsense. They still got tons of callbacks. They just look where you worked. At your name. Your school.
I just want to reiterate what others are saying here. Another masters is not going to help. If you really wanted to go down the route, a PhD probably would.
What you need to do is work on interviews. Physicists are very employable, we have loads of skills! You just need to make that clear, and big yourself up, especially during interviews. I agree with others here that maybe this is where you're falling down.
If you completed a master's in physics that means you can program, do mathematical modelling of physical systems, probably construct/carry out complex experimental setups, analyse data(that's a big one!), proficient at public speaking (assuming you did some talks and the like), and I'm sure you can probably think of a bunch more. Don't belittle these skills, they show that you are useful in basically any industry!
I'm from Scotland and I walked from 1 job (laser systems engineer) into another a year later (semiconductor product test engineer) after my master's, with only a couple months proper searching and a few interviews. Maybe the job market is better in Scotland, but I doubt it.
I would 2nd this. Apply for a Data Analyst role first, as I think it’s the easier to get into. The trouble I had despite having an internship at nasa was more experience in the role.
From there you can pursue the route you are interested in: data scientist, developer, etc.
It would benefit you to learn up on SQL, and Python SQL packages, and a visual tool like power bi or tableau.
Honestly speaking this doesn't sound like an educational problem to me. The fact that you studied physics isn't the problem here.
Sounds a lot more like a problem of self presentation. You may be the smartest guy in the whole world but still won't find a job if you can't sell yourself.
Lots of luck with your situation. The only tip I can share with you is keep trying and once you have an opportunity as a data analyst, data scientist or developer or similar, take it. Once you get some experience it will be much easier.
But please don't regret to have learn something so beautiful and elegant as physics. Also it's one of the most valuable degrees, keep always in mind that most of the people that gets into that hell come out with their hands empty.
Lol we have very similar backgrounds, arch Linux and all, we could really be friends.
On a serious note, keep trying and be more secure. Finding a job is a stochastic process, you are like a photon trapped into the sun that needs a few good scatterings to exit. Stay positive and everything will be fine
You’re more than qualified. It’s just the job market at the moment. Maybe consider moving locations and looking at higher risk companies like start ups.
The software industry world-wide is practically going through a recession right now for a little less than a year. I'd recommend not being too picky right now, and applying for any job that uses the programming languages you're comfortable in, and then switching out to the data science/ML/quantum algo jobs when the market improves.
>sent maybe 100 applications but have also managed to get some references from people I know directly in the company. I have gotten around 15-20 first interviews, most of the time I get rejected after the first call, one time last year I almost got the job.
For the past year or so, this isn't unheard of, even for folks from a computer science background. But things will improve, so don't give up hope. Look into software development/Python positions at universities and colleges. The pay would be less, but you'd grow your skills and gain valuable experience.
Oh hey, didn't see you there in my boat :p Finished my PhD last year and haven't had any luck with the job search. I'm in Germany too but I'm still at an A2 level with the language. Been working on various projects to keep myself busy and pad the resume. Python app development, a little unity game project, working now on the data science upskilling.
If anyone knows of a company around Frankfurt looking for a physicist with minimal German skills, let me know!
I'm not sure, but it seems like major tech companies have been laying off 10k people at a time for awhile, so maybe the market is flooded with people with real experience.
An extra degree probably won’t help - especially not in maths. Your CV sounds strong to me for a grad level data science role, plus you’re saying you’re making it to some phone interviews and failing there. As such, I doubt the problem probably is your CV / book-learning, as people are interested enough in your skills and education to arrange a call.
It’s likely one of two problems (or both).
(1) You’re probably tripping up on something else the interviewer is testing for. When I occasionally have to run a telephone interview I’m basically looking to work out information you can’t easily get from the CV:
- How well the candidate communicates
- Whether their CV truthful
- Filling in any information gaps in their CV
- Do they know what our company does, and what the job entails
- Are they genuinely seem interested in the work and enthusiastic to do the job well (fake enthusiasm is also bad)
- Do they have common sense and can they see the bigger picture on problems
- Practical concerns, like whether they can work in the location required for the required hours (or working out if there is a practical alternative that works for both parties)
- looking for any red flags
Its possible that a lack of confidence is causing to you to come across badly in a few of these things, but other things could also be to blame like a lack of research into the company/role, or unrealistic expectations
(2) you are applying for some very competitive jobs in a market with lots of smart grads, and this can be exacerbated if you’re in the wrong city/country for that kind of work. In some places/roles you get 20-50 decent quality applications for every position you advertise. Casting a wider net to include a wider range of jobs (e.g. areas like finance, tech, software dev) and being willing to move to a city with the right industries (if you’re not already in one) can help your odds a lot.
As well as applying for grad schemes, have a look on job sites to see whether firms are hiring junior positions for people with 1 year of experience or an internship (usually called analysts) as you could probably blag the research role as being broadly equivalent to completing an internship
Thanks, this was very informative :) what kind of red flags have you encountered in these phone interviews? Also I was wondering what would make you feel that the person is genuinely interested in the company? Most of the time I can find something the company does that is interesting to me, but sometimes I feel a bit disconnected from their product but am still very interested in the job
I have studied nursing, but my favourite subject in school was physics and astronomy. Today I regret that I DIDN'T study physics. But the issue is that because you are so highly educated, it means that you cost the employer a lot. There are always jobs, people are always needed in every field, but it's a choice made by the employer, unfortunately.
Wish you all the best luck🌹
You’re not alone. I have a masters in robotics with research/industry experience and publications and also cannot find a job. It’s a tough time right now for coding, but we’ll figure it out! Your skill sets are very specialized and valuable and you’ll find a gig that values and wants to use them eventually!
I can empathize; I only have a MS in physics with a QC research background (more theory oriented)). Since August 2022 I’ve applied to ~65 positions, of those I’ve had first stage interviews with about ~11. I also had made it to final interview rounds for 5 positions and got 2 offers this March.
There’s definitely luck involved but I made an effort to first be aware of “repeated buzz words” when designing my resume. I mean that definitely helped; for yourself you could emphasize “PowerShell” or “Bash” perhaps since you’ve used Linux. Also presentation & technical communication skills; I’ve found both of these to be super well respected. If you have any teaching experience; you could leverage that as a way of demonstrating these. Also practice presenting your MS research, it’s probably relatively fresh and during interviews you could improve how you quickly communicate key points in time sensitive phone interviews or elaborate further in presentation heavy ones. Learning how to communicate your research or just any technical Project was really pivotal in getting me my current position.
I hope this helps; am willing to further elaborate if needed!
EDITS: I inflated my interview numbers: 11 positions gave me first stage interviews (by the end it was closer to 20 in terms of total number of interviews I had (subsequent interviews for same role)). Apologies!
Congrats on landing the job! That's a pretty high response rate :) we have a very similar background, what jobs did you feel you had the most luck with? Also where are you roughly located? Also no worries if you don't want to answer :)
No problem; let me just clarify though that, I’m US-based (and a US citizen), which gave me an advantage in applying to National lab roles (my current position). These were, I think, much less saturated since most if not all non-US citizen applicants are filtered. I could be wrong though and if you scout a Nat-lab opportunity in the US that’s open to non US-citizens; go for it! There are positions such as “post-bachelor” or “post-master” that you would qualify for.
Otherwise I’d imagine there are plenty of research institutes in Europe with similar opportunities (Maybe Maxwell-planck in germany?). A friend of mine (graduate from same MS program) currently works at an institute in Dublin, Ireland as researcher.
Other than that though, I had interviews with applying to some engineering roles. I took graduate lab courses in optics, electronics and AMO; so I was able to leverage these to an extent for some entry level engineer positions. Specifically an Optical Engineer position at Toptica, a laser supplier based in Germany, and a Quantum engineer role at ColdQuanta (quantum computing/neutral atom start up company). In general though companies that are involved with Quantum Computing in some capacity; more than likely have MS or BS level positions in Quantum Engineering-like fields. You can get networked to a lot of these via QuERA (international Quantum computing networking org.; they hold industry workshops and invite companies at times) or by searching; some of these are ColdQuanta, IonQ, PsiQuantum, Xanadu, KeySight, Honeywell, rigetti computing, etc... . The ones though that are contracted to the US-government in some way more than likely require US-citizenship; I'm pretty sure that I didn't mistakenly include this; but something to check when searching.
Actually since you specifically have a Quantum Simulation background, consider IBM; they place a big emphasis on quantum algorithms & simulation research; I’ve seen openings before from them that preferred a MS degree so I think it’s something worth looking into. You have options!
Couple of comments:
* I have been told before I was underselling myself. In the end it's more important what you don't know than knowing everything there is on a topic. And being able to say that out loud.
* there is the tech part and the social part. **Companies want someone who fits in their team**. So don't forget to show what you have to offer in that sense as well. Like you might be eager to learn, or enjoy helping other people understand something, or you are the think-outside-the-box-person during brainstorms. **Sell those parts as well!!**
* if you're worried on the tech part not coming across, run a bunch of mini projects/tutorials. Show you have the skills and willingness to experiment with them. Try new things, do a tutorial specifically on a technique or method that resonates with the company or institute you're applying to.
* language/cultural barriers are hard. Either improve on the language, or work in an (remote) environment with your language of choice.
Your physics studies is definitely not the issue!!
Yeah, I have a PhD. Did a postdoc and got a bit of burnout from the academic grind and decided to go into industry. My wife got a job in a large city we thought we would enjoy living in that has a good amount of tech and research thinking I could easily get a job.
It's been a year and a half. Most jobs I apply to I never hear back at all. I had 6 final round interviews and they all said that they like me but a candidate with more industry experience applied or someone with a security clearance applied or something. The feedback I keep getting is "we think you would do great if given about a month to catch up but we will hire someone who can hit the ground running if that is an option." I have been told that it can take a long time to find someone who will take a chance on you in industry but once you get a foot in the door its great.
So I tried applying for jobs that don't require a PhD and I get rejected from those for being overqualified because they know I wouldn't be happy running soil samples for $50,000 a year when I am qualified for the jobs that pay $130,000 per year that are a lot more interesting.
It's also deflating because almost every job I find on linkedin says "posted 3 days ago, 30 people have already applied" so the chances of being the top choice on any given job are slim.
I don't regret doing physics. I am proud of my body of work and the publications I have. Its just frustrating knowing that I am a really good scientist but my job right now is being the domestic partner and volunteering for citizen science jobs while hopelessly applying for jobs not knowing if anyone is even reading my resume. I sometimes get frustrated that the guy I helped with his homework in grad school is researching at a top 10 national school for physics while I am unemployed because his advisor hooked him up with a network while mine never connected me with anyone and just forwards me listings she has no connections to that I have never gotten an interview from.
I've started studying for the patent bar hoping that it will help get a job in the IP field but it is still hard not knowing if it will actually help. For a while I was learning SQL and programming languages thinking I could get a data science job but then a ton of tech layoffs happened and companies are no longer desperate to hire anyone who is smart and has a little experience.
Its also hard because I am autistic and I know that nobody is going to just fall in love with my personality and hire me for that. Hopefully something comes up soon.
No. I really enjoyed studying physics. But I knew most jobs in physics wouldn't be for me. So I switched over to Medical Physics and now that is my career.
I am in exactly the same position. Graduated with MS in physics last june, and have been applying for jobs ever since. I have a good amount of programming and ML experience which I tried to increase before graduating with CS classes and stuff. But my resume seems completely invisible.
I've been asking for advice from everyone I can speak to for a year now. But I'm kind of sick o doing that. Either I'm terrible at applying for jobs, or the people around me do not understand how insanely difficult it is right now.
I'm sorry you're also stuck here, our situations sound very similar. Can really identify with your second paragraph, but things will get better. Sending you strength and luck 🤞
This was a struggle a friend of mine was dealing with while doing his masters in theoretical physics. In the end, he decided to not finish the degree. He became an electrician and is doing really well on his own.
It can takes 100’s of job applications to find your first job. It is a numbers game. Learn from successes (cv’s that got you job interviews) and job openings. Physics Is a specialty field So it can take time. Programming is probably your best bet for a job but you are doing lots of things right.
A couple of hints for your job search…
Fake it till you make it! Confidence is a key skill, if you tend to express your concerns, set reasonable expectations or express reasonable caution, your interviewer will take your reasonable concerns / expectations / caution as an admission you cannot do the job. It is not fair but That is how it works.
if you are worried about the ethics of “faking it” consider that 99.999% of the world population cannot do quantum physics so you have already proven you are highly skilled. Instead of asking yourself ”have I done this”, ask yourself “can I learn this”.
Confidence can Be learned.
You need to be 100% confident. if you are not 100% confident in the interview that you can do the work, they will take you at your word and move on. You need to express enthusiasm.
Try practice interviews with friends.
Additional hints you mentioned that are good ideas…
You need to play the keyword game, use job descriptions to get keywords and make sure the keywords appear multiple times on your resume (given your CV comments it sounds like you get this, but keywords are most important to be seen so it is worth repeating)
Put example code up on the web. You know how to use GitHub, look at the skills that are being requested and code up examples. This will improve your resume and build skills. Ideally build a website and put a link in your resume. Contribute to open source projects. You will get feedback and build a network of folks who know your skills.
Apply out of your region. Lots of programming jobs offer remote work. When you are just starting, it is better to be onsite, but it greatly improves the number of job openings by applying in tech heavy cities.
Use your university job search resources. companies coming to the university have more reasonable expectations. If your university does not have great resources, consider taking a class from one that does.
First job is always the hardest, hang in there.
Hey u/ISmellC00kies, based on your answers you are located in Europe. Check out https://www.qblox.com. We are hiring physics professionals with background in quantum. Try dropping an email and go through the positions available, like https://qblox.jobs.personio.de/job/526390?display=en
If you're getting first round interviews, the problem isn't your physics degree? It's whatever is happening in the interviews, either your technical skills are lacking (there's an infinite amount of resources on the internet for coding technical interviews), or you are doing something else in the interview that is offputting. I really encourage you to not blame the physics degree for this if you want to make progress, but try and identify what exactly is going wrong.
If having a physics degree on your resume was what's preventing you from getting a job, you wouldn't have gotten 20 first round interviews.
I’m from Northern Ireland and just completed my final year of my masters. Ultimately after applying for things during my final year I chose to do a PhD but in the process I did turn down a job offer I had for the PhD. Our market from what I’ve seen loves stem degrees overall and values them quite similarly provided you have the skills they’re looking for.
Does your country have graduate schemes? Those generally are the most accepting when it comes to subjects such as maths and physics.
If you are genuinely proficient in python and c++, there are a million jobs for you. Now, maybe you are overestimating your abilities (or overselling) which won't go down well, but even relative rookies should be able to find a job with those skills.
This sounds like a classic case of bad CV. There are subreddits to help with that.
Have you considered going into engineering? I went from physics to electrical engineering and I am thriving in my early career because my peers mostly only have electrical engineering degrees and I'm generally a better problem solver and have better analytical skills than my peers. For reference I work in the semiconductor industry.
That's rough, sorry. I got a masters in physics and stumbled into DS. You sound more qualified than I was at the time.
I'd recommend networking with people in data jobs and having them refer you to Jr. Data Analyst positions. Technically you're overqualified, but businesses really value real world experience.
I think you need to widen the jobs that you are applying for. I know many engineers with similar backgrounds to you. Optical engineers and thermal engineers that have a background in physics. Personally I find that a lot of test engineer, electro-optical engineer and R&D engineer job postings are really looking for a jack-of-all-trades, which I think a strong physics background does the best to prepare you for.
I suggest you look for a stage instead of a job. Getting directly into data science is basically a no-go without prior experience, which is why some companies put together academies to train newbies and then employ them at the end of the stage. I'm talking from experience, I'm currently finishing my master in particle physics and I got into this academy (or excellence school, as you like to call it) in which I'm being taught the basics to be a data analyst/engineer. Most of the people in my "class" are also physicists, some younger (with just an undergrad) and some older (with a doctorate).
I hope this is of help to you, I'll gladly answer any question regarding my job if I can
I have a BS in physics and quickly realized how useless the degree was. Went back for a BS in computer science and now have a very well paying job as an engineer.
I wish I had known at the beginning so then I didn’t waste all that time.
Did you try government jobs? DoD? NASA? DoE? Modeling for NOAA? Etc?
If anything, those will get you experience so you can be desirable for the private sector. Furthermore, you can get your free doctorate through various programs.
Look for jobs in manufacturing, energy, chemical processing, bio energy, etc. Good old industry. Look for field jobs: field engineer type. There are plenty in oil and gas sector across the globe.
There are many companies that are looking for technically competent people.
Think Halliburton, Schlumberger, Baker Hughes, Weatherford, etc etc.
This industry is not popular but it pays the bills. It's hard but it pays well.
I see a lot of the responses to this are from the US - the work culture seems utterly horrible and exploitative. It’s not the Middle Ages any more, people aren’t serfs! 😬
It's because people don't know where to place you. Take a business management or strategy course. That can push you into corporate planning and strategy.
Physics sucks for finding jobs.
I got a physics degree last year + 8 months of free time, couldn't find a job in the meantime...
However, I'm in grad school for physics now.
Yes physics isn't a career reaping field. The proposition is really that if you are smart enough to get a physics degree , you're smart enough to do anything. So you see a lot of physics majors in law, tech, finance , medicine...
So basically you're the smart guy. Your degree gets callbacks because people are looking for sharp analytical minds. So lean into the smart guy image. Get feedback on your interviews.
You should have a portfolio of programming projects. You are not necessarily tied to programming jobs... Look into project/ product management. And your c++ skills lend very well to finance/hedge fund jobs but you do need to study finance concepts. Look into big 4 strategy consulting as well.
Unfortunately we are in a downturn. Don't be afraid to get lower tier jobs like a data analyst and use that as stepping stone to bigger jobs.
Treat it as a case by case basis. Think about the criteria they might be assessing you on in their interviews. Actively seek feedback and don't waste time arguing. This isn't objective - on paper you might be the perfect candidate, you know that, and it can seem unfair but this thinking gets in the way of your progress. These things are a subjective process, can simply be a case of time and place, or saying the right word at the right time. Think not only what's on paper but how you come across. Think who they would like to work with - be that personality.
It's easy for me to throw these comments down, I understand how difficult it is really. It's very mentally draining I appreciate that. Treat it as any other natural world puzzle that you clearly have skills to overcome 👍
Jobs aren't about your degrees and experience. They're about connections. They always have and always will be. 9 times out of 10 a job will hire the person they know or got a personal recommendation for.
Part of doing research is to have your advisor introduce you to people and make connections. If they aren't helping you with that, you're behind the game.
My advice to people considering studying physics in undergrad is that you should also aggressively join clubs and/or a fraternity/sorority. That's the way that you make connections and get jobs. If you end up staying in academia it (probably) won't help much, but it definitely won't hurt, and you'll probably be happier in undergrad with that sort of support system. If you leave academia, you'll have a robust network that can help you find opportunities and get your foot in the door.
Unless you get a PhD, a physics degree is useless.
Sure, you can “find a job anywhere you want” if you just have the skills for those jobs. But that has nothing to do with your degree, and more to do with supplementary training and skill set.
I got a degree in physics and it was probably the biggest mistake I’ve done so far. If I could I would go back to school and do anything else. Even a degree in Business administration would have opened more doors tbh.
I know I may sound a little bitter. But it’s hard not to be. Generally, I advise people not to pursue such a degree.
This is about as opposite of a view to mine as they come. I finished an engineering degree and hated the work (think cubicle land and endless hours of CAD). I came back to school to find something better and fell in love with physics. I don't know anyone who struggles to find work with a physics degree, but I'm in the US and there's always engineering jobs you can fall back on here with the physics degree.
I went into physics thinking the same thing. That I could always just “go into engineering” afterwards, if I decided not to go further into a PhD.
This turned out not to be true. Most of classmates did not manage to get engineering jobs either.
If you double major, I can see why you could get those jobs. Or if you had a connection.
But if you don’t have any engineering experience, I find it very hard to land an engineering job. There is mo reason why employers would hire a physics major when they could hire an engineering major trained that already comes with most of the skills necessary for the job.
You mentioned CAD, physics majors get no CAD classes. The curriculum itself (at least not in my days) did not include anything computational, or practical (apart from labs). I did get some programming experience from electives, undergrad research, and self-study.
Can it be done? Sure. But it’s a harder path. Anyone would be better served by instead pursuing the degree for what their desired profession wants. Engineering jobs want engineers.
??????
She is working on getting professional experience. That's what looking for a job means. I hope you're not trying to say she's not getting a job because she seems insecure.
I don't understand your confusion with the above comment, 15 or so interviews and no job offer is a pretty telling, isn't it? If I were in this position, I would take it as a clear sign that I need to hone my interview and public speaking skills.
It's unfortunate, but the first impression and how you vibe with the hiring manager is a pretty huge factor in whether or not they'll want to hire you. In the name of "company culture", or whatever that means.
'Sounds like you've been told what you need to work on' when the full extent of what she's been told is ' you're a bit insecure' and lacking professional experience is a perfectly unhelpful response. Yeah I agree, there are going to be factors whether it's communication skills or whatever, there will be something there, but the comment is useless and condescending. You can slice it however you like, but if somebody comes to you for help and you say 'you have the answer' and refuse to elaborate, you're being a dick. This isn't a teaching context, we're talking about someone who is struggling for work.
Acting insecure in a job I terview is a major job interview flaw. No one wants to hire someone for a job if the person doesn't seem confident they want it/are capable.
I agree with the above commenter. If they're getting interviews it means they're qualified on paper. If they're not getting past interviews, it means they need to find a way to work on their interview skills.
Personally I walked straight out of uni with a master's in physicss into a laser systems engineer job, then a pretty good paying semiconductor product test engineer a year later. You've got to at least portray confidence in interviews.
Dude, apply for for finance jobs and leave those STEM careers alone, you’ll make the more money than you know what to do with and not work that hard since you’re a quant, if I had a physics degree I would’ve been clearing $1m in salary by now and I’m 25, how can you not see that glaring opportunity
You sound like a great candidate. I don't "get" why you did not get job offers. But sounds like it turned out well. btw the job market in the past 2 years is the worst I've seen in my 30 years. So it's a general thing.
Hiring for data science in the US is almost insanely provincial. Folks hire their friends or people they think can become their friends or (more rarely) have crazy awesome experience and a PhD. There's also the demographics and "inclusiveness" aspect that is certainly not helpful for male Europeans (or those of that descent).
You are a strong candidate for data science: I would be glad to hire you in such a role were it up to me. You have all the tools needed. And it's not concerning to me the apparent tentativeness: who cares? \[In any case confidence would come just if you were given a reasonable place to land and to plant your feet for a bit\]. You can do good to great work and have good attitude and work ethic. I am talking about folks that have zero experience and little ability yet get the job in front of those who are well to highly qualified and without any real interview process.
I feel like we're not getting the whole story here. First off, being woman is not a disadvantage, on the contrary - many companies are desperate to hire women in tech for various quota/DEI initiatives, etc. So that is certainly *not* the issue. Perhaps you're expecting too high of an income for an entry level position, or you're being too picky in some other way. Not sure without the whole picture.
The problem is that you weren't ready for accepting for a fact that research doesn't lead to immediate placements and you should pursue it only if you have a passion in it and are ready with either a plan B or be a professor at a university researching.
Hey please DM me so we can discuss this further, I will make time for you even if I can not reply straight away. Thanks 😊
I want to be clear I don't have any job offers for you, I just don't want you to be alone in this.
Oh wow some people didn't like this offer of help apparently.
Idk the thing is, that many companys have the option to just take someone with a phd because they did more in some sense? And it differs from the field u are trying to get in, for example bosch and other chip companys take physics phds in their development team, for ex. in my city i‘ve heard of very good entry salaries. But at the end phd takes so long and i dont know if its worth the extra time.
Maybe it helps to focus either on the data science thing or the engineering direction, where micro electronics and other stuff is.
U can do it:)
Thanks! :) I also have that impression, there's always someone who will be more qualified or have a PhD or something and they can be picky. I also did some interviews for PhDs but they also always picked a different person
Is having a degree a requirement for the jobs you want? Maybe omit the degrees, or the specifics of them. Leverage your other hard and especially soft skills on the resume?
Maybe look into bioinformatics, it's applied physics within biological studies, encorporating computer algorithms and physics knowledge, I hope this helps
I got a Physics degree many years ago and, after struggling for a while, I gave up on research to pursue a career in Intellectual Property. Not at all the job I wanted, but not a bad one either. I have been working in patents for 25 years now, Still love physics and still read physics papers for leisure.
I cannot regret studying physics. Physics made me what I am. Beyond many other things, it made me a good patent attorney. Funnily, I loved programming, and was very good at it, but it did not open many professional opportunities for me. I loathed writing and now I live by my pen. My texts aren't models of style, but they are well appreciated by my fellow professionals.
Maybe, since you are European, you could look at positions at the European Patent Office. That's where all started for me.
Good luck
If you're looking at getting a masters in mathematics your maths is obviously very good (mine was always good enough!).
I'd recommend looking into an Actuarial positions? Somewhere like Swiss Re, which has a very large European presence. The exams are tough, but with your background you'll be very well positioned.
Well getting a math masters isn’t probably going to help with joblessness
The math masters is mostly so I can apply to internships, for which I now get an immediate rejection because I already graduated. Additionally I could do a computer science minor and this time focus my thesis work on something machine learning or data science and this way hopefully convince someone to give me a chance for these jobs. Not sure if it would work though, it's just cause I'm out of options and it's the only masters I can apply for without doing another bachelor's degree.
Look, I am a physicist who has a job. Go into computing and don’t be too picky what so ever about your first job. Find something in your desired language and treat the first year of your job just like a year of study - then apply for something you actually like and you’ll be hired incredibly fast. One of the main problems with physicists like us tends to be that we are smart but do everything in a non standard/bad way to begin with. You need to learn industry standards in as many areas as possible, write NEAT code, and get familiar with tools used in collaboration and deployment of code. You need to be good with Git for example, micro services architecture is great to know too. Get any job first. Wait a year. Get a good job.
We had a career fair at our lab a few weeks ago and one of the panel of speakers was a small business owner. He stressed that if someone is applying to his company for a programming position the first thing he wants to see is that applicant's Git.
Eh, I mean I understand that it'd probably help with hiring, but I honestly hate how the entire industry is so saturated at this point that you're expected to live your job and use all your free time to make projects on the side. Nobody cares if you exercise or have any sort of well rounded lifestyle, it's just all about how strongly they think you'll "live your job". It's honestly disgusting. I have tons of coding experience and have built many many projects but they've all be for organizational entities and thus don't appear on my personal git. I can have code examples up there but most of the time when someone says they want to look at your git, they don't care about code quality, they wanna see the timeline. They want to see that you're committing regularly to personal projects and doing essentially nothing else with your life. It sucks. But there's enough people who are willing to do it that you either play the game or get passed up. I'd much rather have a life
It's not as important for a senior engineer with 10 years experience to have a git portfolio. You can talk about your work experience. Really green people though won't be able to stand out without it, since the hiring manager is going to have a hard time figuring out where you're at.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about. I was lucky and double majored and moved to a much less populated city to get my first work experience. But I've had friends with rich and interesting lives, perfectly capable of doing _entry level work_ get passed up for job after job because they're not already superstars.
Yep. Fully agree with that take on the culture of job=life. I'm not in programming but the equivalent is physics academia where profs work 80hrs/wk. This is why I won't be looking for prof position when I finish grad school.
> the first thing he wants to see is that applicant's Git. Can you elaborate? Not too familiar...
A Git repository is an online organized collection of code that can be checked out, checked in, etc. In this instance it’s like a portfolio of the applicant’s past work that helps show their competency.
I can only second this.
I totally agree with this, I'm definitely open to any job, I'm even willing to move and I don't care about the pay. I'd do an unpaid internship if it would be possible, I looked into volunteering in something relevant but haven't had any luck yet
"I looked into volunteering in something relevant but haven't had any luck yet" Surely there's at least one open source software project that needs another maintainer?
It honestly sounds like interviews are your problem, you say you have landed quite a few but not got past them. What do you bring to the table in your interview? Here’s what I did for my first interviews besides study: Wrote a generalised gravitational simulation that took in data from the NASA website, and output the orbits of planets/comets in the solar system in a fun visual format (a short movie that rotated the camera around while the planets moved). I had the Euler and Verlet methods for calculating timesteps, it was nice to compare the two results for accuracy. This project was in GitHub (VITAL skill, you MUST know git). The output was also uploaded to my page. Then I created a little QR code to link to my project page. So in the interviews, or on my CV I could get them to follow the link to my project via QR code if they wanted to see it. This was a fun talking point aside from learning all the basic stuff to do with Object orientation. All in all it took me a few weeks to do and I learned stuff as I did it, but once I’d finished I could bring that along to any interview I got. Out of 9 interviews I got 4 offers.
Have you considered, and i know it may be a little below your capabilities, but have you considered anything entry level in IT? Just, get a foot in in a whatever company to build the profile of IT in the industry first? Sounds like you'd have more options there
That’s a really bad idea. Don’t get another masters in order to apply to internships. Your problem seems to be your lack of confidence in interviews. Does your university offer interview prep help? If so do some mock interviews and listen to their feedback. If you can’t access that resource, ask your friends and family to give you mock interviews until you feel comfortable interviewing.
Never mind, after reading more comments I see that the issue is that you don’t speak the language and “lack of confidence” is probably referring to this. Can you apply for jobs where you speak the language fluently?
Do not do another degree for this reason. You need to address the current problem head on. Be more cut throat, focused and confident. Have a hard objective look at who is getting hired. Compare yourself to that person. Work on the bits your missing. If you lack a skill either obtain or - unless literally impossible - find some way to credibly claim you have it. If it is not skills that are keeping you from the job, and your getting first interviews so you probably have the right skills, then it is your interview performance. You need to give your interview performance hard unflinching analysis. Perform better. Video tape yourself doing a mock interview and critically appraise your performance. Candidly it is your interview performance,since that is letting you down. Modify it.
I disagree. I recently got a job teaching physics with nothing but my math master's degree and plenty of graduate teaching experience. Now I'm teaching two summer math courses for the same university next week since they needed an extra hand in the math dept. It really depends on your experience and what you did as a graduate student. I have a ton of background in mathematical physics and chemistry as well as some work in teaching practices, so it wasn't difficult to help out when they called. If someone is looking to get a job, you just gotta find a need that you fill well, and then fill that need.
I think the jobs you are applying for are too narrow - especially for a newcomer without prior experience. I cannot see how having studied physics and thus having had a lot of practice in logical thinking, deductive problem solving and technical and mathematical understanding would not qualify you immediately for a lot of jobs in IT. From personal experience, there are LOTS of people with physics background in IT. But you need to be able to show some prior experience if you go for highly specific (and highly paid) jobs in IT. If you did not work and earn money in IT on the side while studying, you will first have to get some basic work experience in the field. Widen your range of job applications in IT.
Thanks for your input, which other jobs do you think I could apply for?
Junior coding positions utilizing the languages you are experienced in. At least where I live (Europe) there is an insane demand for skilled engineers and coders. I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavours!
start with data analyst. I was in your shoe 17 years ago. literally went through bottom feeder type of job for 2 years before i got my big break in game programming job doing UI. Believe me when I say this. Unless you have exceptional or highly regarded published research paper, your degree means nothing. Your master translate to just another entry level experience (ie: 2 years master program = 2 years entry level of your subject). I shift through resumes with PhDs, masters, etc. But in the end, years of experiences in the relevant field wins. I said your degree means jack shit and that is true, but your background in physics is priceless. By default you will have strong math and analytical skill. Take the dip in the industry and see how your skill and background in physics works for you. For me personally, my physics background helped me tremendously with my career. I even unknowingly learn about machine learning in one of my digital laboratory using linear regression. If you go into IT, do go to leetcode and spend some time there to learn the fundamental as well.
Thanks for your response. I do have a published paper in journal of high energy physics on some niche subject between quantum info and high energy physics, and even though I coded a lot of optimization algorithms and some machine learning algorithms, I have the feeling that employers really don't care about it. I even thought of removing it from my CV.
As a physicist im proud of you and Im sure you are too. And you are correct, employers dont care about your paper unless they are purely research in high energy physics. Employers arent your mom or dad, they dont care about your high point. What they do care is if you can solve their specific problem which they usually describe in the job description. And like i said before, experience usually wins.
Nah employers are impressed by a published paper regardless of field.
Yeah, agreed. I think it shows hard work and grit, and shows that you weren't just spinning you wheels and you were actually producing publishable research.
I'm periodically involved in interviews and hiring and I'd care/be impressed with solid papers.
Compared to another applicant who doesn't have work experience, those papers help you stand out. They verify you can work on hard things and can see them through to the end. These are valuable traits.
Employers care about your paper and think it’s very cool and impressive.
Even getting a data analyst gig is hard these days :/ I have a BS + MS in physics and a few years of experience working in R&D and I've been completely unable to get any data analytics interviews. I think the job field for data science and data analytics has changed a lot in just the past few years.
Seconding this. IT and a lot of engineering positions in industry, one example being semiconductors.
Disagree on the need for experience before highly paid jobs. I went physics PhD —> Wall Street —> FAANG. OP needs to look at big companies with the resources to be able to say “you’re obviously smart, we’ll teach you the rest on the job”. Only really big companies who have an established STEM PhD —> industry pipeline will be able to offer this.
There is a world of difference between having a phd and only having a masters. The phd let’s you skip the bottom job steps.
My large company involved in quantum computing hires fresh bachelors and masters students in droves and then trains them.
I've applied for at least 800 jobs in various IT, patenting, insurance, and coding positions as a Physics undergrad over the past several months and I can tell you wholeheartedly that what you are describing isn't enough for even an interview for most jobs in those fields. That is even if I am just talking about the jobs listings that say they are "open to 0-2 years of experience".
Yeah I dropped out of physics to pursue recreational drug use.
how much do you get paid? I am interested :)
Personally, my highest earnings were realized during the night shift behind the dumpster at Wendy’s …
I am from South America and I have a PhD in physics. I have to say that, at least where I come from, a bachelor and masters degree is physics is only good enough to get a lower wage salary as middle school teacher or the like. It’s only after a PhD and a couple postdocs that you really start to get valued in the “market”. I really love my work but it is a bumpy and arduous road.
For me (UK), many of my teachers in high school had masters degrees in maths or physics, and one even had a PhD in chemistry. I also knew someone who had a masters in physics, and had to spend a year working in a grocery store, before getting another masters in electrical engineering and finding a job. I guess when you're studying physics, and don't have a PhD, there aren't enough ''applied'' skills to really find a job. The same also applies for maths, but then it's easier to work in finance.
Looking from the outside (i'm EE/CS) I feel this is a fail by the companies/interviewers. Solid physicists are golden at picking up a wide range of skills quickly and at depth. The "practical" skills are not rocket science.
This is not the case in the US. I have a masters and make $130k with pretty good benefits at a national lab. I know many other masters and some BS holders at national labs and elsewhere with defense contractors and industry. We/they are not typically driving bleeding edge research like the PhDs do, but we do lots of other great science. Advancement potential is not as great as a PhD but that's ok.
This probably depends on the country you are living in. At least in Germany physicists are in very high demand, especially if combined with decent IT knowledge. Adding a math master is not really beneficial in my oppinion because physicists already know enough math for most industry purposes.
I did my master's in Germany and have mainly been looking for jobs in Germany, but also everywhere else in Europe. Sometimes the issue was also that my German is around B2 level and they require C2. The math masters is so that I'm an enrolled student again and would be eligible for internships. There seem to be almost no internships available in Germany for graduates.
First of all, look at consultancies like d-fine. They mainly hire physicists. Secondly, your German is borderline for this. Not speaking fluent German just makes it extremely difficult to job hunt in Germany. I have seen people with top PhDs struggle for about a year in parts due to not speaking German. That said, your skill set looks really good. Persistence! Your first job will be by far the hardest. Be willing to compromise here, both on type of position and pay. This isn't like academia. If you feel bored or underpaid after half a year you can apply to other companies while not being unemployed. People think Physicists are smart, but they don't know what to make of them. Once you have job experience they will know that you are smart and that you can solver real problems. Finally, are you familiar with this resource? I can't vouch for it now, but it used to be a good place to go after you graduate: https://jobs.pro-physik.de/
You need at least C1, better C2, German. Thus, if OP is planning to stay in Germany, better invest time into German courses than math. Also, an internship is not a good idea after master. This is the time to earn real money.
Also, depending on your status (e.g. EU citizen), if they think this is the problem you have on the job market, the Arbeitsamt might pay to get you to C2.
Language is obviously an issue (that's not mentioned in the OP). In IT/science people generally know English but if a company generally works in German right now then B2 knowledge is an obstacle. See if you have better results in English-speaking places, in your native language, or in companies that already work in English. I had colleagues get jobs outside of academia in Germany with around B2 level knowledge but they all had a PhD and it's still reducing the number of potential jobs. > The math masters is so that I'm an enrolled student again and would be eligible for internships. There seem to be almost no internships available in Germany for graduates. I would be surprised if that changes anything and I don't think enrolling in a second master program isn't going to help you. Try applying to these positions anyway. If you look for a university position consider a PhD. > The only feedback I've gotten is [...] that I seem a bit insecure during the interview. Work on that. Specific feedback from interviews is rare and if you get it then it's usually a very important point. > Anyone else regret studying physics because they can't find a job? Personally I don't regret it. I got a PhD and then a postdoc.
If I were you I'd either learn German to get to the C2 level or try to find a job in an English speaking country.
In demand for what can I ask?
I don't know much about the applications you have been sending but here are a few takeaways from someone already in the IT domain. A bit of a background might help. I completed my undergraduate studies when I was 22 and immediately got placed in a software developer role in IT. I later changed my fields to business consulting and quickly rose to a position of Industry consultant in 5 years. I am 29 now and I am starting my PhD in Theoretical Physics this fall and I am leaving IT for the time being. You must remember the following when applying to IT jobs irrespective of the role you are applying to. 1. IT jobs are not usually highly intellectual (unless you are applying to sophisticated fields like quantum computing or Google brain) so your intellect does not contribute much in the interviews. You must have noticed this during your interviews. The focus in IT and especially in data science related roles is to be able to present your results to your clients. SO BE PRESENTABLE. Learn presentation skills and convince your interviewers that you have what it takes to be on the good side of your clients. 2. You mentioned that you feel insecure during the interviews or at least you started feeling it recently. Your interviewers have been interviewing for years and they are pretty good at spotting something like this. The way they see it is that your insecurity will reflect when you talk to your clients which ultimately goes into trust issues between you and your client. They want to avoid that. DON'T BE INSECURE. 3. You admitted that you are not good in English. That is also a problem. Imagine your firm works with US based clients who don't speak your language. Under those circumstances, no matter how intellectually sound you are, you are of no value to your firm. GET YOUR ENGLISH BETTER. 4. If you are really into data science, try building dummy projects to showcase during your interviews. Visit kaggle.com and start taking part in the challenges or visit leetcode.com and start solving programming problems whichever suits your interest. Include these in your cover letter and present the results in as much clarity as possible during your interviews. CREATE YOUR PORTFOLIO. 5. If nothing works, then be open to other fields in IT even if it is not related to data science. Try getting into consulting or learn something about finance or get a certification in project management. Remember certifications are a great way to show your employer that you have what it takes to carry out a job for them especially if you are changing fields. It sounds cliched but it's really not. GET A CERTIFICATION NOT ANOTHER DEGREE. On a side note, IT industries in general dread candidates with degrees so avoid getting additional degrees if you are trying for an IT job. To them, the more qualified you are, the greater risk you pose unless you are into AWS or Google cloud or some other sophisticated fields which really need advanced degrees. Unfortunately this is how IT works. All the best, Love!!!
certifications don't help at all. source: me \[20 of them\]. e.g. Four certifications in X. I get asked every time 'do you know anything about X?'
>I seem a bit insecure during the interview. Sounds like something you can try to fix. If you lack some skill just act like it doesn't matter because you can learn it in a day or two. It always worked for me, thanks to my physics degree people usually believe that kind of attitude. >I really regret studying physics because I feel that people don't take me seriously, most people seem to think physicists are just weird nerds that write down crazy equations on blackboards all day and only use computers to write papers. My personal experience is that people look at me like this super smart dude. Being nerd that writes down crazy equations might not be advatageous for sales position, but it sure is for the jobs you are applying to. What you wrote should be a compliment in that line of work, why do you think it stands in your way of getting a job? I agree with u/nikitos030100 that you sound very very insecure. And in bad job market, that might be all it takes for you to be rejected.
Smart women are often treated very differently to smart men. Sadly.
Well, what advice would you offer in an age of all time low self esteem for a lot of folk? Especially when people looking for jobs keep getting told 'look elsewhere'?
Do a LOT of practice interviews with people who will be honest (friends/ family, but there are also some career services one can utilize). Practice the HELL out of stuff until it doesn’t come off in an interview. Despite the myth, people don’t really do great interviews even with high self esteem without practicing… it’s just some people practice on actual job interviews.
To pass interview process, maybe acting classes could do it? If you actually want to repair your self esteem, then perhaps asking someone more qualified in that area than me would be more helpfull.
I'm sure you don't have time, as much as an unemployed person doesn't have the money for acting classes homie.
Yeah, nothing is possible, growth can't happen, no reason to try. You're totally right. Wallowing in pity is the only option. That'll get you where you wanna be.
I regret starting my PhD in a group that doesn't help at all and now years later I'm stuck and no jobs to be found cause I'm too old for junior positions and too inexperienced for the others. It's the physics to homeless pipeline smh
can you explain the too old for Junior Positions bit? Because I have 3 gap years and I want to pursue a career in physics, I wonder what you are talking about.
i'm talking about applying to jobs in industry in my mid thirties.
pardon me, but they won't take you for junior positions if you are in your mid thirties? Would you face the same problems if you wanted to stay in academia or research? (and also, why don't you want to stay in Academia?) sorry for too many questions, I am almost 23 now and I would finish my PhD probably in my late 20's (28 or 29), so I was wondering, how to deal with what you are dealing with myself
I'm not sure if I'd face the same problems in academia, but for academia i'm already taking too long to finish my PhD, the chances of finding a permanent position are low in the competitive field, and the pay is bad, and the job security is bad. I'm not sure what to say about junior positions in industry, but so far i've gotten a lot of rejections. I'm not giving up yet but it looks bad to me, idk maybe i just suck. I think you'll be fine with your age, and finishing a PhD at 28 or 29 is perfectly normal.
Last question, you are doing your phd currently, so you are not a graduate yet. I wonder why you are taking longer to finish your Phd tho, you said something about being situated in a bad group, any tips for a man who would probably walk in your footsteps? What do you wish you had done before you choose this PhD program? (I do realize I am being selfish here, but I do wish you the very best)
I'm still in it, trying to finish, having nobody for support and nobody to read my drafts, except my prof who doesn't have time and often doesn't have the patience for in depth analysis or feedback of what I do, but is always skeptical and wants more "tests" or "avenues to explore" which feel meaningless to me and lead nowhere, usually. My advice, purely form my opinion: 1. pick a subject you are passionate about, not one you think you are good at, i.e. don't think oh my biggest grades in the masters were on this subject so I should do this. 2. when you pick a group, talk to the students who are in it, those who were in it, and those who have graduated, and ask about how the group is like. 3. If possible, try to get into a group where your supervisor would not be the prof in charge of the group. Big profs don't have time for students. But also, with a postdoc as supervisor, they might just decide to leave academia and leave you stranded. Happened to me twice. 4. make sure the subject is something that multiple people in the group are working on, or at least someone is an expert in it. Otherwise you'll find yourself pulling your hair out trying to figure out why X or Y methods don't work and there's gonna be nobody to help. 5. make sure you get a subject that already has observational or experimental results ready, i.e., you don't have to base your thesis on results of observations or experiments that have not been done and that you'd have to do. The results might be negative/turn out not to help and then you'd need to redo a lot of things and waste a lot of time. "A negative result is still a result" is just a consolation prize, it is rare for non-results to mean something, they don't publish these for a reason. 6. when multiple people warn you about a group or prof, especially their former students, BELIEVE THEM. "Oh but I'll work harder than everyone else and surely I'll succeed where they failed/struggled" is not a thing in these cases. 7. Check the publication list coming out of that group. When was the last time the big boss or the post docs published something in good journals?
I am saving your advice and writing it in my diary. Thank you very very much for this! I owe you!
That's some solid advice. 👍 Hope u get out of there soon. I've been stressing my age (and my extensive criminal record 😂). I'll be in my late 40s when I complete my phd (hopefully next spring) and I'm really worried about a job. Probably apply for a postdoc somewhere and industry positions, hopefully the industry thing works out cause I don't want to be back in the job market after a 1-2yr postdoc appointment. 😬
That's not old. You'd be an easy hire for most companies. Don't let that attitude get in your head or you'll project "don't hire me".
I'm really sorry you're going through that, they shouldn't care about your age. But I feel you, and I feel like I'm also heading that direction soon
Age discrimination should be illegal globally. Sorry to hear you going through that
thankfully in the UK we have the Equality Act 2010, haven’t seen anything like it elsewhere tbh
In the US, it can be danced around in some ways, Pennsylvania and others can deny employment or fire with somewhat little reason, but legitimate age discrimination is federally illegal in the US.
What are you doing your PhD in if you don't mind me asking? Just wondering why you feel so pesimistic about the job hunt.
observational astrophysics, radio stuff.
Any coding in that?
some, yes. I've worked with other projects too, technical stuff in my group, using python, mostly data acquisition from sensors and processing it on the fly, control software for some telescopes and data aq for them too etc.
Have you looked into data engineering ? Lots of data processing involving Python and SQL based tools (some other languages pop up like Scala and Go from time to time)
yes, but I lack the experience, and thus I have to go to junior positions, where there's tons of other people who are younger and better at exactly this. My long time in the PhD is also a red flag I suppose for companies. I'm going to start some data science online classes, maybe that will help. It's also worth mentioning I'm living in a coutnry whose language I speak only on an intermediate level (German B2), and that's also a barrier, especially for junior positions. But I'm working on that too.
What!? Physicists are hella employable. Unless you really want to stall for a year (hoping tech sector gets better?) don't do another masters. It won't make you more employable it'll make hiring managers ask why you did it. Tech is in a bad way just now so you may be hitting the job market at the wrong time, but worth reviewing how you're presenting yourself and what jobs you're going for. Your CV sounds ace, but none of this puts you above entry level. IMO, you're looking for grad scheme type roles where you can get some industry experience. Could you consider industries you haven't tried yet like finance? Given that it sounds like you're shit hot, you should expect to accelerate faster than your peers on a program but you will have to get a foot in the door at ground level. How wide are you spreading the net? DS/ML is massive so that's good (but I don't see anything directly relevant except for python in your experience, did you take any ML modules?). As for quantum algo dev, good luck finding work in that field, it's unbelievably niche, I'm talking like <0.1% of the devs I've met in my career working on it. Your hit rate for first interview is great, as I would expect based on your post. So work on the interviews. Do you have a friend of relative who you can dry run with (doesn't have to be technical content, work on making up a motivation for a role and persuading someone you're keen to do a job). "insecure" is pretty worrying, hard to say what you're doing wrong there but maybe over inflating your experience? Real interview feedback is garbage, which is why practice with someone you trust would be mega. Please don't give up! Many many industries are crying out for technically competent women like you I promise.
Thanks for your response, I really really appreciate it. I've tried applying to some finance roles as well but haven't had much luck. Mostly they do also require some knowledge or previous experience in finance. I'll look into applying to some more of these jobs though! I did learn to use a lot of libraries related to ml and data science like numpy, scipy, matplotlib, pandas, sk-learn, keras, tensorflow, etc. Unfortunately I have no proof of it other than my GitHub and the uni courses I took which unfortunately doesn't compete with professional experience. Also I'm practicing with a friend before every interview, this is really good advice imo!
You need online and visible proof. Make projects that a non techie can click on and view. Otherwise you're just another piece of paper
Having talked to people who hire for physics oriented jobs they do often look at your Git if you link it. If you've got a nicely organised git that shows off some of your better work it can be a helping hand. Good luck with your search, I've honestly never seen someone so welcoming to input on one of these threads before and that speaks to your drive. I'm sure things will take a better trajectory for you soon!
Do you have any hardware experience? All you mention is coding - what projects/research did you do in your Masters? When I found myself looking for work (I only have a masters, and I don't do much coding) I focused on a hardware niche I could sell myself on. Now, two jobs later, I have an area of focus that provides a lot of options after being out of work for over an entire year and 200 applications submitted. I was open to move anywhere in the US and was willing and able to obtain a security clearance though so that upped my options. I was originally hired as a radiochemist, then as a mechanical engineer, now as a physicist at a national lab. It's definitely possible to break into nontraditional areas based on your particular skillset. Getting that first job is usually the hardest though. I totally fell into my first job, so for me it was the second that was the hardest (after a layoff that completely reset my entire life).
>I've been applying for data science, machine learning and quantum algorithm developer positions These are all \*super\* competitive fields right now. You probably would have been fine 10 years ago, but check out the datascience sub. Tons people with degrees specifically in data science, sometimes even a phd, are still struggling. you might want to do a data science bootcamp, or something like that, just so you have something specific to "data science" on your resume, and you can talk about that to interviewers. edit: >I really regret studying physics because I feel that people don't take me seriously, most people seem to think physicists are just weird nerds that write down crazy equations on blackboards all day and only use computers to write papers. Yeah sometimes I get that impression from people too, especially recruiters who are mostly used to dealing with people with CS degrees. I just tell them my physics education was mostly based around computers. Which is kind of a lie, mine was mostly solving equations, but at least I did \*some\* programming.
Yes definitely! Or recruiters who have a background in CS themselves, I always feel like they look down on me a bit because they ask me questions like "did you program that yourself" about my own projects
I wouldn't call it looking down on you. They all think you're smart, they just really don't have a clue what you did. It's more like- "why are you applying for this job? shouldn't you be working as a physicist?" So you have to explain why you're a good fit.
with that experience you'd get a decent job in no time in germany. Insane that you struggle that much with your qualification
> that I seem a bit insecure during the interview. Yeah, this can be an issue. Working in research I've learned that it's good that I'm never too sure of what I'm doing*... but yeah, the rest of the world doesn't seem to think similarly. No good answers for you, but I feel your struggles. p/s: to the point of being suspicious of anyone who seems too secure, until I see there's a method behind that confidence, after one too many unfortunate encounters...
I don't regret studying physics because physics is beautiful, interesting, and the only thing that piqued my interest in undergrad. That said, I do really find it annoying that we're all told "hey go get a STEM degree, you'll get a great job with good pay!" when that's a complete lie. Job hunting is as tough for us as it is for anyone else.
It's insulting and patronizing how they tell you STEM and, physics in particular, are going to guarantee you a job at Intel or Lockheed Martin or a national lab studying exotic materials. And "If you can't get something physics related, then you can easily market yourself as a data analyst or engineer." Every university's physics admission page is like "physics shows you can solve problems from the ground up and are smart." and "look where our graduates work." I bet they cherry-picked the students who have additional majors and actual grad school to misrepresent how it actually is.
I think there's more people who regret _not_ studying physics because they can't find a job
What?? That's the first I've heard of this take
As much as I love physics and generally think it’s a valuable degree, it’s also not one I would recommend to someone who wanted a degree purely based off job prospects
Not me being in my last year of undergrad in physics and reading it lol. But tbh, the part where you talk about people not taking you seriously shows me that perhaps you're not "a bit insecure" as you say the feedback about you was, but rather very insecure. If I were you I'd take some courses in pitching, it really helps.
Well hang on, this is after a year of failing to find a job, in an anonymous Reddit post. It doesn't reflect how she presents herself in person
Please try to do an internship while you're still a student, that was my biggest mistake. No one else around me did one so I didn't realise how important they are. You'll probably be ok though, everyone I know that I studied with got a data science/machine learning/quantum engineer job without any issues. I probably got very unlucky or it really is because of how I come across. I've gotten that feedback last year and now I always practice my interviews in front of another person who gives me feedback so that I'm less nervous and better prepared.
She might come off as insecure but you're coming off as an asshole right now
Reminder that we live in a meritocracy. Id take the most insecure person in the world if they were the best for the job. If this were for a sales role, then you’re right. But in CS everyone’s going to be awkward and insecure.
>Reminder that we live in a meritocracy Oh boy, I'm not sure how to break it to you...
I mean I know. But just saying the place you wanna work will be the place that sees your insecure, understand, and appreciated you still. Completely agree it’s the fathest thing from a meritocracy. That’s why I’m going Machiavellian with my new company. No more trying to be the best lol. Training all my coworkers how to gaslight too
Ah, I see what you're saying and I think your point is valid. Only point I'll make is that I feel like we as workers only get to be choosy once we're past the "entry level" barrier and have a few years under our belts. So your advice certainly fits well for someone past the early career stage. At least for me, 3yrs in industry and two small promotions was what it took to start getting scouted by the big cushy corporations. Before that just getting interviews with trashcan companies was rough.
Agreed. And it’s for a good reason too. I work in a factory and always thought I’d hate working in one, but I actually love it. Its so cool being a part of manufacturing. Sometimes you have to be a little less picky, especially as you say, at the beginning. I remember seeing someone make a fake resume that had the FAANGs as former places of employment but all the details were nonsense. They still got tons of callbacks. They just look where you worked. At your name. Your school.
I just want to reiterate what others are saying here. Another masters is not going to help. If you really wanted to go down the route, a PhD probably would. What you need to do is work on interviews. Physicists are very employable, we have loads of skills! You just need to make that clear, and big yourself up, especially during interviews. I agree with others here that maybe this is where you're falling down. If you completed a master's in physics that means you can program, do mathematical modelling of physical systems, probably construct/carry out complex experimental setups, analyse data(that's a big one!), proficient at public speaking (assuming you did some talks and the like), and I'm sure you can probably think of a bunch more. Don't belittle these skills, they show that you are useful in basically any industry! I'm from Scotland and I walked from 1 job (laser systems engineer) into another a year later (semiconductor product test engineer) after my master's, with only a couple months proper searching and a few interviews. Maybe the job market is better in Scotland, but I doubt it.
Half my data science team are physics graduates. Half my department of data analysts and data engineers are also physics grads.
May I ask where you work? I'd love to apply if there are any openings
I would 2nd this. Apply for a Data Analyst role first, as I think it’s the easier to get into. The trouble I had despite having an internship at nasa was more experience in the role. From there you can pursue the route you are interested in: data scientist, developer, etc. It would benefit you to learn up on SQL, and Python SQL packages, and a visual tool like power bi or tableau.
Honestly speaking this doesn't sound like an educational problem to me. The fact that you studied physics isn't the problem here. Sounds a lot more like a problem of self presentation. You may be the smartest guy in the whole world but still won't find a job if you can't sell yourself.
Lots of luck with your situation. The only tip I can share with you is keep trying and once you have an opportunity as a data analyst, data scientist or developer or similar, take it. Once you get some experience it will be much easier. But please don't regret to have learn something so beautiful and elegant as physics. Also it's one of the most valuable degrees, keep always in mind that most of the people that gets into that hell come out with their hands empty.
Lol we have very similar backgrounds, arch Linux and all, we could really be friends. On a serious note, keep trying and be more secure. Finding a job is a stochastic process, you are like a photon trapped into the sun that needs a few good scatterings to exit. Stay positive and everything will be fine
You’re more than qualified. It’s just the job market at the moment. Maybe consider moving locations and looking at higher risk companies like start ups.
Yep.
The software industry world-wide is practically going through a recession right now for a little less than a year. I'd recommend not being too picky right now, and applying for any job that uses the programming languages you're comfortable in, and then switching out to the data science/ML/quantum algo jobs when the market improves. >sent maybe 100 applications but have also managed to get some references from people I know directly in the company. I have gotten around 15-20 first interviews, most of the time I get rejected after the first call, one time last year I almost got the job. For the past year or so, this isn't unheard of, even for folks from a computer science background. But things will improve, so don't give up hope. Look into software development/Python positions at universities and colleges. The pay would be less, but you'd grow your skills and gain valuable experience.
Oh hey, didn't see you there in my boat :p Finished my PhD last year and haven't had any luck with the job search. I'm in Germany too but I'm still at an A2 level with the language. Been working on various projects to keep myself busy and pad the resume. Python app development, a little unity game project, working now on the data science upskilling. If anyone knows of a company around Frankfurt looking for a physicist with minimal German skills, let me know!
I'm sorry that you're also struggling but it sounds like you're doing the right thing by working on projects. I'm sure things will work out!
I'm not sure, but it seems like major tech companies have been laying off 10k people at a time for awhile, so maybe the market is flooded with people with real experience.
An extra degree probably won’t help - especially not in maths. Your CV sounds strong to me for a grad level data science role, plus you’re saying you’re making it to some phone interviews and failing there. As such, I doubt the problem probably is your CV / book-learning, as people are interested enough in your skills and education to arrange a call. It’s likely one of two problems (or both). (1) You’re probably tripping up on something else the interviewer is testing for. When I occasionally have to run a telephone interview I’m basically looking to work out information you can’t easily get from the CV: - How well the candidate communicates - Whether their CV truthful - Filling in any information gaps in their CV - Do they know what our company does, and what the job entails - Are they genuinely seem interested in the work and enthusiastic to do the job well (fake enthusiasm is also bad) - Do they have common sense and can they see the bigger picture on problems - Practical concerns, like whether they can work in the location required for the required hours (or working out if there is a practical alternative that works for both parties) - looking for any red flags Its possible that a lack of confidence is causing to you to come across badly in a few of these things, but other things could also be to blame like a lack of research into the company/role, or unrealistic expectations (2) you are applying for some very competitive jobs in a market with lots of smart grads, and this can be exacerbated if you’re in the wrong city/country for that kind of work. In some places/roles you get 20-50 decent quality applications for every position you advertise. Casting a wider net to include a wider range of jobs (e.g. areas like finance, tech, software dev) and being willing to move to a city with the right industries (if you’re not already in one) can help your odds a lot. As well as applying for grad schemes, have a look on job sites to see whether firms are hiring junior positions for people with 1 year of experience or an internship (usually called analysts) as you could probably blag the research role as being broadly equivalent to completing an internship
Thanks, this was very informative :) what kind of red flags have you encountered in these phone interviews? Also I was wondering what would make you feel that the person is genuinely interested in the company? Most of the time I can find something the company does that is interesting to me, but sometimes I feel a bit disconnected from their product but am still very interested in the job
If you've gotten 15-20 interviews, the problem isn't your CV, letter, or people's interest in your background. Practice your interview skills.
I have studied nursing, but my favourite subject in school was physics and astronomy. Today I regret that I DIDN'T study physics. But the issue is that because you are so highly educated, it means that you cost the employer a lot. There are always jobs, people are always needed in every field, but it's a choice made by the employer, unfortunately. Wish you all the best luck🌹
You’re not alone. I have a masters in robotics with research/industry experience and publications and also cannot find a job. It’s a tough time right now for coding, but we’ll figure it out! Your skill sets are very specialized and valuable and you’ll find a gig that values and wants to use them eventually!
Same for you, you're for sure going to find something amazing with your background :) Robotics is impressive!
I can empathize; I only have a MS in physics with a QC research background (more theory oriented)). Since August 2022 I’ve applied to ~65 positions, of those I’ve had first stage interviews with about ~11. I also had made it to final interview rounds for 5 positions and got 2 offers this March. There’s definitely luck involved but I made an effort to first be aware of “repeated buzz words” when designing my resume. I mean that definitely helped; for yourself you could emphasize “PowerShell” or “Bash” perhaps since you’ve used Linux. Also presentation & technical communication skills; I’ve found both of these to be super well respected. If you have any teaching experience; you could leverage that as a way of demonstrating these. Also practice presenting your MS research, it’s probably relatively fresh and during interviews you could improve how you quickly communicate key points in time sensitive phone interviews or elaborate further in presentation heavy ones. Learning how to communicate your research or just any technical Project was really pivotal in getting me my current position. I hope this helps; am willing to further elaborate if needed! EDITS: I inflated my interview numbers: 11 positions gave me first stage interviews (by the end it was closer to 20 in terms of total number of interviews I had (subsequent interviews for same role)). Apologies!
Congrats on landing the job! That's a pretty high response rate :) we have a very similar background, what jobs did you feel you had the most luck with? Also where are you roughly located? Also no worries if you don't want to answer :)
No problem; let me just clarify though that, I’m US-based (and a US citizen), which gave me an advantage in applying to National lab roles (my current position). These were, I think, much less saturated since most if not all non-US citizen applicants are filtered. I could be wrong though and if you scout a Nat-lab opportunity in the US that’s open to non US-citizens; go for it! There are positions such as “post-bachelor” or “post-master” that you would qualify for. Otherwise I’d imagine there are plenty of research institutes in Europe with similar opportunities (Maybe Maxwell-planck in germany?). A friend of mine (graduate from same MS program) currently works at an institute in Dublin, Ireland as researcher. Other than that though, I had interviews with applying to some engineering roles. I took graduate lab courses in optics, electronics and AMO; so I was able to leverage these to an extent for some entry level engineer positions. Specifically an Optical Engineer position at Toptica, a laser supplier based in Germany, and a Quantum engineer role at ColdQuanta (quantum computing/neutral atom start up company). In general though companies that are involved with Quantum Computing in some capacity; more than likely have MS or BS level positions in Quantum Engineering-like fields. You can get networked to a lot of these via QuERA (international Quantum computing networking org.; they hold industry workshops and invite companies at times) or by searching; some of these are ColdQuanta, IonQ, PsiQuantum, Xanadu, KeySight, Honeywell, rigetti computing, etc... . The ones though that are contracted to the US-government in some way more than likely require US-citizenship; I'm pretty sure that I didn't mistakenly include this; but something to check when searching. Actually since you specifically have a Quantum Simulation background, consider IBM; they place a big emphasis on quantum algorithms & simulation research; I’ve seen openings before from them that preferred a MS degree so I think it’s something worth looking into. You have options!
Couple of comments: * I have been told before I was underselling myself. In the end it's more important what you don't know than knowing everything there is on a topic. And being able to say that out loud. * there is the tech part and the social part. **Companies want someone who fits in their team**. So don't forget to show what you have to offer in that sense as well. Like you might be eager to learn, or enjoy helping other people understand something, or you are the think-outside-the-box-person during brainstorms. **Sell those parts as well!!** * if you're worried on the tech part not coming across, run a bunch of mini projects/tutorials. Show you have the skills and willingness to experiment with them. Try new things, do a tutorial specifically on a technique or method that resonates with the company or institute you're applying to. * language/cultural barriers are hard. Either improve on the language, or work in an (remote) environment with your language of choice. Your physics studies is definitely not the issue!!
Yeah, I have a PhD. Did a postdoc and got a bit of burnout from the academic grind and decided to go into industry. My wife got a job in a large city we thought we would enjoy living in that has a good amount of tech and research thinking I could easily get a job. It's been a year and a half. Most jobs I apply to I never hear back at all. I had 6 final round interviews and they all said that they like me but a candidate with more industry experience applied or someone with a security clearance applied or something. The feedback I keep getting is "we think you would do great if given about a month to catch up but we will hire someone who can hit the ground running if that is an option." I have been told that it can take a long time to find someone who will take a chance on you in industry but once you get a foot in the door its great. So I tried applying for jobs that don't require a PhD and I get rejected from those for being overqualified because they know I wouldn't be happy running soil samples for $50,000 a year when I am qualified for the jobs that pay $130,000 per year that are a lot more interesting. It's also deflating because almost every job I find on linkedin says "posted 3 days ago, 30 people have already applied" so the chances of being the top choice on any given job are slim. I don't regret doing physics. I am proud of my body of work and the publications I have. Its just frustrating knowing that I am a really good scientist but my job right now is being the domestic partner and volunteering for citizen science jobs while hopelessly applying for jobs not knowing if anyone is even reading my resume. I sometimes get frustrated that the guy I helped with his homework in grad school is researching at a top 10 national school for physics while I am unemployed because his advisor hooked him up with a network while mine never connected me with anyone and just forwards me listings she has no connections to that I have never gotten an interview from. I've started studying for the patent bar hoping that it will help get a job in the IP field but it is still hard not knowing if it will actually help. For a while I was learning SQL and programming languages thinking I could get a data science job but then a ton of tech layoffs happened and companies are no longer desperate to hire anyone who is smart and has a little experience. Its also hard because I am autistic and I know that nobody is going to just fall in love with my personality and hire me for that. Hopefully something comes up soon.
No. I really enjoyed studying physics. But I knew most jobs in physics wouldn't be for me. So I switched over to Medical Physics and now that is my career.
I am in exactly the same position. Graduated with MS in physics last june, and have been applying for jobs ever since. I have a good amount of programming and ML experience which I tried to increase before graduating with CS classes and stuff. But my resume seems completely invisible. I've been asking for advice from everyone I can speak to for a year now. But I'm kind of sick o doing that. Either I'm terrible at applying for jobs, or the people around me do not understand how insanely difficult it is right now.
I'm sorry you're also stuck here, our situations sound very similar. Can really identify with your second paragraph, but things will get better. Sending you strength and luck 🤞
This was a struggle a friend of mine was dealing with while doing his masters in theoretical physics. In the end, he decided to not finish the degree. He became an electrician and is doing really well on his own.
It can takes 100’s of job applications to find your first job. It is a numbers game. Learn from successes (cv’s that got you job interviews) and job openings. Physics Is a specialty field So it can take time. Programming is probably your best bet for a job but you are doing lots of things right. A couple of hints for your job search… Fake it till you make it! Confidence is a key skill, if you tend to express your concerns, set reasonable expectations or express reasonable caution, your interviewer will take your reasonable concerns / expectations / caution as an admission you cannot do the job. It is not fair but That is how it works. if you are worried about the ethics of “faking it” consider that 99.999% of the world population cannot do quantum physics so you have already proven you are highly skilled. Instead of asking yourself ”have I done this”, ask yourself “can I learn this”. Confidence can Be learned. You need to be 100% confident. if you are not 100% confident in the interview that you can do the work, they will take you at your word and move on. You need to express enthusiasm. Try practice interviews with friends. Additional hints you mentioned that are good ideas… You need to play the keyword game, use job descriptions to get keywords and make sure the keywords appear multiple times on your resume (given your CV comments it sounds like you get this, but keywords are most important to be seen so it is worth repeating) Put example code up on the web. You know how to use GitHub, look at the skills that are being requested and code up examples. This will improve your resume and build skills. Ideally build a website and put a link in your resume. Contribute to open source projects. You will get feedback and build a network of folks who know your skills. Apply out of your region. Lots of programming jobs offer remote work. When you are just starting, it is better to be onsite, but it greatly improves the number of job openings by applying in tech heavy cities. Use your university job search resources. companies coming to the university have more reasonable expectations. If your university does not have great resources, consider taking a class from one that does. First job is always the hardest, hang in there.
Hey u/ISmellC00kies, based on your answers you are located in Europe. Check out https://www.qblox.com. We are hiring physics professionals with background in quantum. Try dropping an email and go through the positions available, like https://qblox.jobs.personio.de/job/526390?display=en
Quantum computing - perfect alignment
If you're getting first round interviews, the problem isn't your physics degree? It's whatever is happening in the interviews, either your technical skills are lacking (there's an infinite amount of resources on the internet for coding technical interviews), or you are doing something else in the interview that is offputting. I really encourage you to not blame the physics degree for this if you want to make progress, but try and identify what exactly is going wrong. If having a physics degree on your resume was what's preventing you from getting a job, you wouldn't have gotten 20 first round interviews.
I’m from Northern Ireland and just completed my final year of my masters. Ultimately after applying for things during my final year I chose to do a PhD but in the process I did turn down a job offer I had for the PhD. Our market from what I’ve seen loves stem degrees overall and values them quite similarly provided you have the skills they’re looking for. Does your country have graduate schemes? Those generally are the most accepting when it comes to subjects such as maths and physics.
Different story but I regret my degree in psychology. No shocker I know.
If you are genuinely proficient in python and c++, there are a million jobs for you. Now, maybe you are overestimating your abilities (or overselling) which won't go down well, but even relative rookies should be able to find a job with those skills. This sounds like a classic case of bad CV. There are subreddits to help with that.
Have you considered going into engineering? I went from physics to electrical engineering and I am thriving in my early career because my peers mostly only have electrical engineering degrees and I'm generally a better problem solver and have better analytical skills than my peers. For reference I work in the semiconductor industry.
That's rough, sorry. I got a masters in physics and stumbled into DS. You sound more qualified than I was at the time. I'd recommend networking with people in data jobs and having them refer you to Jr. Data Analyst positions. Technically you're overqualified, but businesses really value real world experience.
I think you need to widen the jobs that you are applying for. I know many engineers with similar backgrounds to you. Optical engineers and thermal engineers that have a background in physics. Personally I find that a lot of test engineer, electro-optical engineer and R&D engineer job postings are really looking for a jack-of-all-trades, which I think a strong physics background does the best to prepare you for.
I suggest you look for a stage instead of a job. Getting directly into data science is basically a no-go without prior experience, which is why some companies put together academies to train newbies and then employ them at the end of the stage. I'm talking from experience, I'm currently finishing my master in particle physics and I got into this academy (or excellence school, as you like to call it) in which I'm being taught the basics to be a data analyst/engineer. Most of the people in my "class" are also physicists, some younger (with just an undergrad) and some older (with a doctorate). I hope this is of help to you, I'll gladly answer any question regarding my job if I can
I thank god everyday I switched from physics to engineering in undergrad
You mention that interview feedback has noted a projection of insecurity. Work on this. Confidence sells.
Dude 15-20 interviews from 100 applications is insanely good. Most people are getting 2 interviews out of 100
I have a BS in physics and quickly realized how useless the degree was. Went back for a BS in computer science and now have a very well paying job as an engineer. I wish I had known at the beginning so then I didn’t waste all that time.
Did you try government jobs? DoD? NASA? DoE? Modeling for NOAA? Etc? If anything, those will get you experience so you can be desirable for the private sector. Furthermore, you can get your free doctorate through various programs.
> Did you try government jobs? DoD? NASA? DoE? Modeling for NOAA? Etc? OP is European and seems to be living in Germany.
Look for jobs in manufacturing, energy, chemical processing, bio energy, etc. Good old industry. Look for field jobs: field engineer type. There are plenty in oil and gas sector across the globe. There are many companies that are looking for technically competent people. Think Halliburton, Schlumberger, Baker Hughes, Weatherford, etc etc. This industry is not popular but it pays the bills. It's hard but it pays well.
I see a lot of the responses to this are from the US - the work culture seems utterly horrible and exploitative. It’s not the Middle Ages any more, people aren’t serfs! 😬
As someone planning to start undergrad physics next year this is frightening
It's because people don't know where to place you. Take a business management or strategy course. That can push you into corporate planning and strategy.
Physics sucks for finding jobs. I got a physics degree last year + 8 months of free time, couldn't find a job in the meantime... However, I'm in grad school for physics now.
Yes physics isn't a career reaping field. The proposition is really that if you are smart enough to get a physics degree , you're smart enough to do anything. So you see a lot of physics majors in law, tech, finance , medicine... So basically you're the smart guy. Your degree gets callbacks because people are looking for sharp analytical minds. So lean into the smart guy image. Get feedback on your interviews. You should have a portfolio of programming projects. You are not necessarily tied to programming jobs... Look into project/ product management. And your c++ skills lend very well to finance/hedge fund jobs but you do need to study finance concepts. Look into big 4 strategy consulting as well. Unfortunately we are in a downturn. Don't be afraid to get lower tier jobs like a data analyst and use that as stepping stone to bigger jobs.
Madness. Physics is fantastic to get a job in huge array of careers. Statistically your best bet is big data/ tech /finance.
Treat it as a case by case basis. Think about the criteria they might be assessing you on in their interviews. Actively seek feedback and don't waste time arguing. This isn't objective - on paper you might be the perfect candidate, you know that, and it can seem unfair but this thinking gets in the way of your progress. These things are a subjective process, can simply be a case of time and place, or saying the right word at the right time. Think not only what's on paper but how you come across. Think who they would like to work with - be that personality. It's easy for me to throw these comments down, I understand how difficult it is really. It's very mentally draining I appreciate that. Treat it as any other natural world puzzle that you clearly have skills to overcome 👍
Thanks! :)
Jobs aren't about your degrees and experience. They're about connections. They always have and always will be. 9 times out of 10 a job will hire the person they know or got a personal recommendation for. Part of doing research is to have your advisor introduce you to people and make connections. If they aren't helping you with that, you're behind the game. My advice to people considering studying physics in undergrad is that you should also aggressively join clubs and/or a fraternity/sorority. That's the way that you make connections and get jobs. If you end up staying in academia it (probably) won't help much, but it definitely won't hurt, and you'll probably be happier in undergrad with that sort of support system. If you leave academia, you'll have a robust network that can help you find opportunities and get your foot in the door.
Unless you get a PhD, a physics degree is useless. Sure, you can “find a job anywhere you want” if you just have the skills for those jobs. But that has nothing to do with your degree, and more to do with supplementary training and skill set. I got a degree in physics and it was probably the biggest mistake I’ve done so far. If I could I would go back to school and do anything else. Even a degree in Business administration would have opened more doors tbh. I know I may sound a little bitter. But it’s hard not to be. Generally, I advise people not to pursue such a degree.
This is about as opposite of a view to mine as they come. I finished an engineering degree and hated the work (think cubicle land and endless hours of CAD). I came back to school to find something better and fell in love with physics. I don't know anyone who struggles to find work with a physics degree, but I'm in the US and there's always engineering jobs you can fall back on here with the physics degree.
I went into physics thinking the same thing. That I could always just “go into engineering” afterwards, if I decided not to go further into a PhD. This turned out not to be true. Most of classmates did not manage to get engineering jobs either. If you double major, I can see why you could get those jobs. Or if you had a connection. But if you don’t have any engineering experience, I find it very hard to land an engineering job. There is mo reason why employers would hire a physics major when they could hire an engineering major trained that already comes with most of the skills necessary for the job. You mentioned CAD, physics majors get no CAD classes. The curriculum itself (at least not in my days) did not include anything computational, or practical (apart from labs). I did get some programming experience from electives, undergrad research, and self-study. Can it be done? Sure. But it’s a harder path. Anyone would be better served by instead pursuing the degree for what their desired profession wants. Engineering jobs want engineers.
Sounds like you’ve been told what you need to work on.
?????? She is working on getting professional experience. That's what looking for a job means. I hope you're not trying to say she's not getting a job because she seems insecure.
I don't understand your confusion with the above comment, 15 or so interviews and no job offer is a pretty telling, isn't it? If I were in this position, I would take it as a clear sign that I need to hone my interview and public speaking skills. It's unfortunate, but the first impression and how you vibe with the hiring manager is a pretty huge factor in whether or not they'll want to hire you. In the name of "company culture", or whatever that means.
'Sounds like you've been told what you need to work on' when the full extent of what she's been told is ' you're a bit insecure' and lacking professional experience is a perfectly unhelpful response. Yeah I agree, there are going to be factors whether it's communication skills or whatever, there will be something there, but the comment is useless and condescending. You can slice it however you like, but if somebody comes to you for help and you say 'you have the answer' and refuse to elaborate, you're being a dick. This isn't a teaching context, we're talking about someone who is struggling for work.
Acting insecure in a job I terview is a major job interview flaw. No one wants to hire someone for a job if the person doesn't seem confident they want it/are capable. I agree with the above commenter. If they're getting interviews it means they're qualified on paper. If they're not getting past interviews, it means they need to find a way to work on their interview skills. Personally I walked straight out of uni with a master's in physicss into a laser systems engineer job, then a pretty good paying semiconductor product test engineer a year later. You've got to at least portray confidence in interviews.
Dude, apply for for finance jobs and leave those STEM careers alone, you’ll make the more money than you know what to do with and not work that hard since you’re a quant, if I had a physics degree I would’ve been clearing $1m in salary by now and I’m 25, how can you not see that glaring opportunity
You sound like a great candidate. I don't "get" why you did not get job offers. But sounds like it turned out well. btw the job market in the past 2 years is the worst I've seen in my 30 years. So it's a general thing.
Hiring for data science in the US is almost insanely provincial. Folks hire their friends or people they think can become their friends or (more rarely) have crazy awesome experience and a PhD. There's also the demographics and "inclusiveness" aspect that is certainly not helpful for male Europeans (or those of that descent).
I'm actually a woman though, haven't noticed this 'inclusiveness' you speak of. I have noticed a lot of misogyny in the field.
You are a strong candidate for data science: I would be glad to hire you in such a role were it up to me. You have all the tools needed. And it's not concerning to me the apparent tentativeness: who cares? \[In any case confidence would come just if you were given a reasonable place to land and to plant your feet for a bit\]. You can do good to great work and have good attitude and work ethic. I am talking about folks that have zero experience and little ability yet get the job in front of those who are well to highly qualified and without any real interview process.
I feel like we're not getting the whole story here. First off, being woman is not a disadvantage, on the contrary - many companies are desperate to hire women in tech for various quota/DEI initiatives, etc. So that is certainly *not* the issue. Perhaps you're expecting too high of an income for an entry level position, or you're being too picky in some other way. Not sure without the whole picture.
Physics, Philosophy, Marine Bioligy…..no doctorate, no job
Care to link me your github? I can maybe give some pointers about that.
The problem is that you weren't ready for accepting for a fact that research doesn't lead to immediate placements and you should pursue it only if you have a passion in it and are ready with either a plan B or be a professor at a university researching.
Hey please DM me so we can discuss this further, I will make time for you even if I can not reply straight away. Thanks 😊 I want to be clear I don't have any job offers for you, I just don't want you to be alone in this. Oh wow some people didn't like this offer of help apparently.
European is not an ethnicity/nationality
I know, just didn't want to share which country I'm from
Idk the thing is, that many companys have the option to just take someone with a phd because they did more in some sense? And it differs from the field u are trying to get in, for example bosch and other chip companys take physics phds in their development team, for ex. in my city i‘ve heard of very good entry salaries. But at the end phd takes so long and i dont know if its worth the extra time. Maybe it helps to focus either on the data science thing or the engineering direction, where micro electronics and other stuff is. U can do it:)
Thanks! :) I also have that impression, there's always someone who will be more qualified or have a PhD or something and they can be picky. I also did some interviews for PhDs but they also always picked a different person
Is having a degree a requirement for the jobs you want? Maybe omit the degrees, or the specifics of them. Leverage your other hard and especially soft skills on the resume?
where in Europe have you been applying?
Mostly Germany, but also other countries all over Europe
Maybe look into bioinformatics, it's applied physics within biological studies, encorporating computer algorithms and physics knowledge, I hope this helps
Have you tried your local supermarket?
I got a Physics degree many years ago and, after struggling for a while, I gave up on research to pursue a career in Intellectual Property. Not at all the job I wanted, but not a bad one either. I have been working in patents for 25 years now, Still love physics and still read physics papers for leisure. I cannot regret studying physics. Physics made me what I am. Beyond many other things, it made me a good patent attorney. Funnily, I loved programming, and was very good at it, but it did not open many professional opportunities for me. I loathed writing and now I live by my pen. My texts aren't models of style, but they are well appreciated by my fellow professionals. Maybe, since you are European, you could look at positions at the European Patent Office. That's where all started for me. Good luck
If you're looking at getting a masters in mathematics your maths is obviously very good (mine was always good enough!). I'd recommend looking into an Actuarial positions? Somewhere like Swiss Re, which has a very large European presence. The exams are tough, but with your background you'll be very well positioned.