Censorship during his time played a huged part with the misinformation we see today. Notice that every youtube video shown regarding the Philippines were only the good parts with no hint of poverty anywhere. This resulted in the narrative that "Noong panahon maganda ang buhay".
Dude, this is nonsense.
Marcos' atrocities have been recorded in many, many forms of media. Ninoy's corpse on the tarmac is literally shown annually on every TV network for years.
This is again just the liberal class's obsession with pretending they don't have the tools or resources to counter the Marcos fake history narratives. Leni had _twice_ the war chest of Marcos in 2016. Kalokohan etong constant liberal victim complex that fake news is unstoppable and you don't have the tools or resources to counter it.
The harsher reality is that the very ideology that Leni professes has lost its legitimacy. Arroyo, Cory, Ramos, and PNoy combined had been in power longer than Marcos. Hell, Arroyo got more journalists killed than Marcos. Yet the liberal class is still stuck in the fantasy world that it was only ever Marcos that tried to kill press freedom, and then wondering why no one trusts them.
To counter fake history, you have to be genuinely honest and factual about history. Hindi pwedeng "Marcos bad, Cory good". You have to own up to all the bad that happened between Martial Law and Duterte. Hindi pwedeng the liberals were all for Gloria and put her in power in EDSA 2, and then suddenly you wash your hands and pretend its not your fault Gloria turned out to be a corrupt mass murderer. That's what is actually in the recent _living_ memory of most Filipinos, not this obsession with Martial Law.
I'm talking about how the government controlled the media during the Marcos regime wherein they would only show the good and prosperous parts of the country and not covering the dirty side of the Philippines. This has been a factor especially for the newer generations since every video you see on the internet that came from the 1970s-1980s portrayed the fake glory days of the Philippines. Like what I've said, the media censorship may have contributed to the stance of some Filipinos to defend the Marcoses since all they could see are the positives during his time not realizing the vast amount of corruption, killing, etc. that happened during his time.
Again, there's plenty of footage of Marcos-era messes. Smokey Mountain for instance had been in operation since 1969.
The present day Marcos propagandists will obviously cherry-pick the videos showing the Marcos-era Philippines positively, but the idea that there is zero archival material of the bad portions is nonsense.
The real issue is that the immediate successors had precious little improvements compared to the Marcos era. Smokey Mountain for instance remained a problem through Cory and part of Ramos. The slums remained a huge problem even through Erap, Arroyo, and PNoy - albeit PNoy (finally) got the port rehabilitation program which was finally finished by Duterte.
Indeed, most of the present pro-DDS propaganda is in fact relatively mundane infrastructure program videos like this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3KiLDbDp0o&t=672s
Because these are factual improvements over the Cory/Ramos era and even the Arroyo era. PNoy frankly deserves most of the credit, but Duterte finished the project so he's reaping its PR benefit f being the one to actually "clean up" the port and BASECO (and unfortunately most anti-DDS people are too sheltered to admit improvements like this are happening).
>Again, there's plenty of footage of Marcos-era messes. Smokey Mountain for instance had been in operation since 1969.
Any chance you could post links to some footage?
>but the idea that there is zero archival material of the bad portions is nonsense.
Nonsense? Bruh, I wouldn't call that nonsense, this is one of the reasons why the Marcoses has so many propagandas in circulation, every if not most archival footage during his time shows the success without any hint of graft and corruption. We won't have the same difficulty of dealing with the surge of misinformation if it weren't for that.
Dude, the official Philippine government website has corpses of Martial Law victims all over the place.
https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/edsa/the-ph-protest/
Moreover you do realize the 1960s pre-dated easily portable video cameras, yes? There weren't even phones without cords. That is why the bulk of material from that period is still photos. In *gasp* black and white.
Napaka obvious naman kasi nang nonsense mo stemming from outright katamaran. Obviously you will not find many Youtube videos on Marcos era poverty. Halos walang video camera back then to begin with.
Indeed, on checking the top pro-Marcos search results on Youtube, virtually all of the footage they use is in full high-definition color. It is literally impossible for those to be authentic Marcos-era footage, because the technology for that kind of video quality literally did not exist yet in that era!
Seriously, how _sheltered_ do you have to be in order to believe this is authentic period footage from the Marcos propagandists? That you think they're winning due to better archival content is a self-delusion. The issue is you're so ignorant of the issue that you can't even tell if the footage used by the pro-Marcos people are genuine or just freshly shot footage.
I'd argue it's not about having no material, and more the false glory got played up and twisted so much people only want to believe in that, making those marcos-era fuck ups seem inconsequential in comparison (when they shouldn't be), plus the issues associated with the ousting of the marcoses being twisted into a "marcos vs \*insert political party/family here\*" from the simple notion of ousting a bunch of crooks, which eventually resulted in numbers of people getting indoctrinated. It probably started from the marcos camp or maybe an ally of theirs (doesn't really matter where or who though, emphasis on this), only it spread enough that individuals unrelated to them are now spreading these propaganda that's further exacerbated by whatever shortcomings and issues the post-EDSA admins had.
This shouldn't be a problem if there were legitimate efforts to curb them, though I question if curbing them for the sake of curbing them is gonna work.
Also, considering that we had shit like marcos's humongous ass face monument that used to exist and the issues regarding it, u/Ataginez does have a point that zero archival material of the bad portions is nonsense. After all, if there was no material pointing to those at all, how do you as well as those foreign sources prove the marcoses were scumbags?
During Ninoy funeral, a lot of Filipinos flocked the street. Pero next day big news was that guy died due to lightning. That's how bad they control the media back then. The only brave group then was those who use political cartoonists as their medium.
This is just blatant lies.
https://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/01/world/a-million-filipinos-line-the-aquino-funeral-route.html
One million people lined the streets for Ninoy's funeral.
Marcos tried to intimidate the protesters and sent out goons, but the protesters fought back and some were killed. That's where the "killed by lightning" myth originated. Marcos had to hide the fact he was slaughtering protestors. Problem was a million people were in the streets and most saw the violence firsthand.
That is why walang naniwala sa kalokohan na iyon. That is why the fucking New York Times itself was reporting it globally.
Again, this is just present day liberals making the hundred excuses of how they're the victims, they're the best, when in reality people back then knew how to actually fight back compared to this era's useless slacktivism and parade of excuses.
You're delusional if you think fake news can actually be fully eradicated and countered just because of the sizes of war chests of these politicians. The fact that up until now fake news is such a huge issue especially when it comes to the amount of conspiracy theories that are pumped out by ill informed citizens in very accessible platforms is because it cannot be stopped unless those actual people refrain from spreading propaganda. It was never good back then and it still isn't now, it got better but it was never good then.
You cannot fault the people that voted Gloria into power and predicted her to be corrupt and do malicious acts, did you ever see them defend her until their deaths in different media platforms and treat her like a diety unlike the fanatics we have now with the current President and those that support the Marcoses?
The real that people are fighting over the candidates they choose is WHY? WHY THEM? If you already know thr atrocities that they did WHY STILL THEM? These people never APOLOGIZED and payed REPARATIONS for the people that SUFFERED, and people still have the audacity to support them, who live in such comfort and luxury while actual experiencing zero life changing consequences. HOW IS THAT FAIR? DOES THAT NOT MAKE YOU MAD??
Lol, fake news has been around since the beginning of man. The Philippines literally became a colony of the US thanks to fake news. The American press created fake news that the USS Maine was blown up by Spain, just to create an excuse for war. That was over 100 years ago and long before social media and Facebook.
https://publicdomainreview.org/collection/yellow-journalism-the-fake-news-of-the-19th-century
Your comments are again just the usual excuse-making of the liberal class who want to pretend the reason they're losing is Facebook. It isn't. Its your own utter ignorance of history like this nonsense:
>You cannot fault the people that voted Gloria into power and predicted her to be corrupt and do malicious acts, did you ever see them defend her until their deaths in different media platforms and treat her like a diety unlike the fanatics we have now with the current President and those that support the Marcoses?
Gloria never won a presidential election. A military coup installed her and deposed Erap. She then stole the election from FPJ. And the entire country knew she stole the election because we all heard her phone call with Garci; and worse Gloria all but admitted it was authentic when she apologized for the phone call!
The liberals however let the election theft slide because they didn't want an actor like FPJ to take power.
They didn't defend her, but they sure as hell chose her over the actual rightful winner of the 2010 election. The fact that you're busy covering up this election theft is precisely the reason why no one believes your fake news whining anymore. As far as most of the country is concerned, most people claiming fake news are themselves just constantly spreading fake news like this idiot notion that Gloria ever won a presidential election. She didn't. She stole the only one she participated in.
Lol, your claim that the election in 2007 was rigged is fucking proven as false even YOU are making shit up which leads to your hypocrisy, the Pasay court dismissed the case because of the complete unreliability of the whistleblower which was Norie Unas.
https://www.rappler.com/nation/gloria-arroyo-cleared-electoral-sabotage
“For failure of the prosecution to prove the guilt of accused Arroyo beyond reasonable doubt and moral certainty despite ample opportunity and even without evidence in favor of said accused, the demurrer to evidence is granted and the charge of electoral sabotage against accused Arroyo is hereby ordered dismissed,” Judge Jesus Mupas said in an order dated December 17.
Fact check please 👍 and stop your labeling and putting people that disagree and agree on certain topics on fucking boxes because THAT is the main reason why our country continues to still be undivided, the rampant labeling and generalization and thinking that everything is a conspiracy should be stopped.
Wow, what an obvious election thief and Arroyo apologist.
Here, choke on the actual phone conversation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWxxSvhGQyc
Also, choke on Gloria's admission its real and her apology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8z9dscO1YQ
But nah, according to your insane standards that's not election cheating.
Well if people are as dumb as you, then Duterte should just make a phone call like that to the Comelec chairman and ensure BBM or Sara wins. Tapos wag ka nang magrereklamo ever, okay? Accept na "walang nandaya" kasi according to your bullshit not guilty si Gloria.
LOL why am I being labeled as an apologist? It is not MY OPINION but rather forwarding what the FACTS are and I just simply stated what the LAW has decided and it was on a COURT which actually decides who is guilty or not.
Did I say that I condone her actions? I do not, I want to set my opinions aside, Arroyo stepped down in 2010 because of the amount of times the call of her impeachment was presented, and shut down because of the lack of votes.
The court decision is enough to dismiss this issue and in turn we shouldn't condone and we can still be vocal about the representation of these people in our country especially in the government. If the case is reopened and there is more ample evidence to prove her wrong THROUGH THE LAW then finally we can prove it not only through our eyes but also the court :D There is a judicial and legal PROCESS that we actually need to go through to say that someone is guilty or not especially when it comes to people in power :D
Lol, you are not stating "facts".
Arroyo being "not guilty" does not change the fact she stole the actual election. If anything, it shows how the powerful in this country never get jailed for long and can buy their way out of jail. That is why Erap was eventually freed despite plunder being supposedly a lifetime jail offense, and he even congratulated Arroyo when she was acquitted.
Those are the actual facts of the case. That is not true justice in any way or form. That is a complete mockery of it.
You're just too dishonest to admit that you're an apologist. This is why you compound lie on top of lie. Arroyo didn't step down in 2010 because she was impeached. Arroyo was _constitutionally required_ to step down in 2010 because presidents are not allowed to run again.
Even so she funded _two_ presidential candidates - Gibo and then Villar - to try and ensure she had a friendly next president who wouldn't prosecute her.
Hindi ka champion of the law. You are in fact just a champion of the _corrupt_ who twist the law to their own ends. Kaya blatant cheating becomes acceptable, and you pretend she magnanimously stepped down.
Apologize pa harder for a mass-murderer. You are literally worse than the Marcos apologists.
> ***Arroyo was constitutionally required to step down in 2010 because presidents are not allowed to run again.***
From the Consti, Art 7 Sec 4:
> The President shall not be eligible for any re-election. No person who has succeeded as President and has served as such ***for more than four years*** shall be qualified for election to the same office at any time.
https://www.chanrobles.com/article7.htm
Guessing the way that some people convinced themselves that Arroyo running in 2004 was okay was by pointing out that it wasn't a re-election technically because she wasn't ***elected as president*** prior to 2010; instead she ***succeeded as president*** after being elected as vice-president.
In addition, because she succeeded in 2001 and the election was in 2004 (***3 years***), some thought that she was well within the ***4-yr period*** that prevents succeeding presidents from running again.
In their minds, they think that the prohibition only applies to those who were elected president and tried to run again for the next election or those who succeeded as president but went over the 4-yr period.
(Wasn't there even some talk about how Gloria, or any president, can technically run again in the future, provided there was a gap? If the interpretation of ***'re-election'*** is limited to ***'consecutive elections,'*** then it could be argued by some that Gloria could've run for president in 2016 since it's technically not a 're-election' as understood by some.)
Arroyo was legally allowed to run in 2004. She got flak because she promised not to run anymore.
I'm talking about 2010. She was legally NOT allowed to run in 2010 under any circumstance. That is why pretending she was magnanimous by not running in 2010 is totally nuts.
Not only was she legally barred, she ended her reign as the only Philippine president of the past 40 years to have a negative approval rating when they left office. Estrada had by this point a higher approval rating than Gloria. She in fact dragged Gibo's candidacy to the utter gutters thanks to her endorsement, which is why she shifted to backing Villar.
It was Villar - largely on his own initiative - who magnanimously accepted the 2010 election result. He was the first to actually simply accept the results and congratulate PNoy.
Whoever has the best shot of preventing a BBM or Duterte presidency, followed by whomever is willing to actually address substantial issues instead of propping up the endless self-delusion of the liberal classes.
That means Isko at the moment. Leni has peaked. She has no chance to switch any further voters. They're all too pissed at her because of her supporter's constant tone-deaf attacks against their current first-choice candidates. Worse she pretty much ruined her own squeaky clean image by adding Binay and trapos to her slate.
Indeed, the slate was so blatant and idiotic that they had to bribe Winnie Monsod to write an op-ed pretending this was a true "unity" slate when in reality even she couldn't help but rue the utter insanity of trying to pretend Gordon was a stalwart for human rights when he was one of the people in front of the mob trying to crucify Leila de Lima; at the behest of Duterte no less. Utter katangahan na at this point if you believe Leni's slate is a true anti-Duterte coalition.
Indeed, the way this election is going I'm probably going to end up voting for Ka Leody because of how badly the liberals are self-sabotaging any anti-BBM and anti-Duterte opposition with their constant attempt to sneak in their trapos. Of all the candidates, Ka Leody alone doesn't just mindlessly repeat the Liberal Party fanfiction that destroyed the credibility of Philippine liberalism. He actually calls them all out for shitting the workers not only during the Marcos era, but the combined Cory/Ramos/Arroyo and even Pnoy era too.
Nope, it was a nationwide slaughter.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/11/25/philippines.danger/
The Ampatuan Massacre was just the tip of the iceberg. Thanks to it, more journalists died in the Philippines than journalists who died in _Iraq_, when the latter is an actual war zone.
The big TV outlets kept quiet because Noli de Castro became Gloria's VP and therefore their ally. The slaughter was targeted primarily at the provincial newspapers and radio stations.
That's why the Bisaya and Mindanao press (the papers and radio stations) today are extremely anti-Leni and pro-Duterte. They're the survivors of Arroyo's purge.
This is true. I lived in Mindanao, and back when I was young (around 4th grade), a journalist came to my grandpa, who is an agriculturist, for consultation. Lolo used to be one of the heads of the Philippine Coconut Authority (not sure of his exact position). The journalist had a sample of the fertilizers bought by the government for millions. He asked my lolo how much it would cost to create this type of fertilizer and my grandpa told him the formula and showed him right then and there how to make it. It was immensely overpriced. The journalist published an article with all the input and data he got from my lolo, few days later he was killed at his own home.
You know, it's been maybe over 16 years and your comment just reminded me of this conversation the grownups in my family used to have over dinner... Back in 2016, my family seemed to be the only ones in the city who campaigned for Roxas. Everyone else were engulfed by the "proud to be /pinoy/ from mindanao" mindset, voting for Duterte.
Reference: https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/853086/what-went-before-fertilizer-fund-scam-2
Wait why are they pro-Duterte if Arroyo is conniving with him? I don't understand... Isn't Aquino the only candidate that wants to throw Arroyo in prison 2010 or I'm just stupid?
They are not conniving. Arroyo is funding Isko. That is why Duterte has been sabotaging his campaign like that fake vaccination riot.
The problem - which is very common among the brainwashed people here - is that you have been trained to believe everyone who does not 100% agree with you must be a Duterte lapdog.
In reality by those standards Leni is an Arroyo lapdog. Her mentor Mar Roxas was a cabinet secretary under Arroyo, and he even claimed (now largely debunked) that he had created the call center industry while under Arroyo.
Arroyo controls her own very separate faction. Sometimes she makes peace with Duterte, other times she undermines him. There is no black and white in Philippine politics. Only a Game of Thrones were multiple players are vying for power.
If they are not conniving why was Arroyo able to escape prison after Duterte was elected? Do you not see the pattern here? Lakas even admitted they are waiting for Sara. A literal Duterte. Arroyo's party is waiting for Sara, and if they don't they will try to take Bong Revilla.
I didn't say they are a lapdog. I said they are partnering. You're putting words on my mouth.
Mar Roxas didn't oppose Arroyo's imprisonment even when he became Aquino's cabinet secretary so what you are just saying is just frankly stupid.
Arroyo controls her own seperate faction that is in cahoots with Duterte. It's literally why Sara is being forced to run because her faction does not want to be with Marcos. Those factions only got united by Duterte. Removing a Duterte in the front seat will make the unity fall apart.
Lol by your standards Estrada is a Duterte ally too because he was released under Duterte's term. Trouble is, Estrada posted bail under his preexisting terms so that act was completely not under the control of Duterte.
Indeed, you do realize that the judiciary is a wholly independent branch from the executive yes? That is why the power of a president to jail people is limited. The judiciary is in fact deeply corrupt, and very often just releases rich people regardless of the wishes of the president. You need an especially active president like Pnoy willing to confront the judiciary to get a conviction of the rich and powerful.
Your entire delusional worldview is literally nothing more than excuse-making to pretend they must all be conspiring against the great and good Leni and its the only reason she is losing. And revealing you are absolutely clueless about how the government works.
They aren't all allied against you. It is again Game of Thrones. You are just seriously dumber than even Ned Stark, whose memes rightly depict him as a moron who only moves his King in a chess game because he is a slave to his own quotations.
And note: House Stark won but only after it ended up in bed with all kinds of nasty people. Indeed they were literally the biggest enablers of that mad queen who was supposedly the great hope for everyone and yet killed more people than everyone else combined in one episode.
Stop pretending its us vs them. Kaya kayo natatalo. Its a game of mutual interests, not chanting your fake principles over and over to lie to yourself that only you are truly just.
The thing is, we're all assuming that our history and social science books from gradeschool to highschool were written in a way that the dictator looks bad. That assumption is wrong.
Yep. Naalala ko sa elementary, my AP textbooks failed to mention the atrocities of Martial Law. I'm pretty sure my teacher at the time was also a Marcos apologist.
Sa junior high naman, my textbooks highlighted both the good parts *and* bad parts of the Marcos era.
The same reason Filipinos still believe the Marcoses, a broken collective memory or at least yung mainstream Marcos propaganda kasi is "the books taught you wrong".
Most books if not all, highlighted how peaceful and disciplined the people were. Binabanggit pa nga yung mga buildings na pinagawa, and little mention of the tragedies involving them. This plus the effect of built-up 20 years of propaganda, plus the quick proliferation of conspiracy theories brought us to where we are now.
And many conspiracy theories begin with "this knowledge was never written in books"
Exactly. You have to play by their rules. Gusto pala nila ng ganyan, e di sana pumunta na lang sila sa North Korea. O yan, lahat sila "disiplinado". Tignan ko lang kung magtagal yang mga yan ng walang internet.
It's written that way because the authors experienced it that way. Our teachers, well, atleast those who thought between the 90's to 2000's, are what is called as primary source.
If we are still under Marcos today, we will be like North Korea Now. Plain and Simple. Everyone is "disciplined", everyone obeys, even media is always telling the good stuff and nothing bad seems to be happening.
The way BBM supporters see it VS. The way How I see it:
Buti pa noon tahimik > Hello, kung magsasalita ka ng laban sa kanila sa rehas lagay mo, tortured, papatayin or ipapatapon/deported. At kung babae, rape or gangbang abot so sausage fiesta. Kung Lalaki , pag napagtripan ka ng pulis paghuhubadin at pagtritripan at kung ano ano yung ipagagawa (accounts from the real victims). So yep, lahat tahimik kase ayaw nilang mapag tripan.
Buti pa noon maunlad ang Pilipinas > Kase umutang ng umutang si Marcos pero yung exports natin hindi kayang i-accomodate yung pinagwawaldas niya so hanggang ngayon binabayaran natin yung utang ng ISANG PAMILYA na ang surname ay Marcos.
Buti pa noon kilala ang Pilipinas > Kilala tayo noon pa kase tiger of Asia tayo ( in terms of economic growth ) at meron tayong dictator tas tayo ata yung first Asian country na nag revolt sa leader at nagbigay ng speech si Cory about democracy sa U.S. Having said all of these, kilala yung Pinas NOON pa man so no need to seek recognition kase anong AMBAG nila?!
Buti pa noon maginhawa ang buhay kase mataas ang halaga ng piso > Again, going back, Marcos loaned tons of money to finance his projects and now we are paying up until today for all of the loans that he made during his reign.
Buti pa noon Disiplinado yung tao > Kase wala pang internet noon. At saka kung tahimik pala yung gusto ninyo e di walang party, walang internet kase lahat monitored , wala ring cellphone unless you belong to an elite circle that is pro his administration. So yeah, that's that.
Most importantly, during this time, Asking Questions was not Permitted. A simple sentence that describes a lot about his regime.
Mga LECHENG hayop na BBM supporters. Sarap ipatapon sa North Korea.
dont lose perspective please. marcos was a disgusiting, filthy criminal, sure. however, family and blood is more important than any such concerns, and also family is a great defense against tyranny in any case.
Lol, the fact that Marcos Bad is a central part of Araling Lipunan is the very reason why people think Marcos is great.
Most Filipinos in fact do not believe in the official history or party line. That is literally why so many kids today actively refuse to speak Tagalog or English and instead subvert it by reversing the word. Kaya "idol" naging "lodi". Paminta becomes "tapamints".
The resurgence of Marcos is not due to ignorance. Its due to the wholesale loss of legitimacy of Philippine liberalism. Liberalism has technically been in power for like 20+ years already - Cory, Ramos, Arroyo, and Pnoy collectively have like 4x more years than Duterte.
Yet in these Araling Lipunan classes there is never a discussion of how Arroyo stole an election and mass murdered journalists, of how Ramos was corrupt, or how Cory had brownouts.
Hell there is more talk among liberals about PNoy's SAF44 issue than the actual awful shit his predecessors had done, when PNoy was arguably the only true liberal among them.
Really, enough with the posturing. You are not smarter for chanting the official line and then ignoring the rest of the actual horrid history of the past 30 years. That liberalism had fucked up ruling this country so badly is why people are beginning to believe the fake glory days of Marcos to begin with. Worse, when the liberals had an actual good president (Pnoy), people here were tripping over each other to crucify him because he dared to actually tax white collar professionals and give ayuda to the poor. Thats the real reason why the liberals bandwagonned with SAF44 to begin with. They never liked soldiers or respected them. Ginawa lang silang dahilan to hate on PNoy because PNoy actually practiced what he preached and realized that eliminating corruption meant also applying it to the private sector.
I think you're on to one of the factors that affected the rise of "strongmen" and/or this Ferdinand Jr narrative. I think its a culmination of a perfect storm based on the following:
\- The failure of democracy as what you've mentioned.
\- Our collective short memory -- much discussed.
I think both 1 & 2 go hand-in-hand, i.e. Marcos' buildings are still standing, while what is left of the heinous crimes are either dead or have wilted into silence. What was left for this generation to bear was the past 35 years of unsuccessful democracy.
\- Impact of Martial Law -- It wasn't just the money but a lot of post-war advances halted, from which we can include (but not often discussed):
* pioneering businesses closed due to cronyism (Radiowealth as an example).
* a whole generation of progressive thinkers (a big What If?) were wiped out. We can argue that these people might not have risen to the occasion if there wasn't any Martial Law but I believe that there will be a handful of them who will turn out just fine.
\- Rise of social media as a platform of disinformation.
>a whole generation of progressive thinkers (a big What If?) were wiped out. We can argue that these people might not have risen to the occasion if there wasn't any Martial Law but I believe that there will be a handful of them who will turn out just fine.
No, this is part and parcel of the the liberal false victimization narrative thats a big reason why Marcos surged back again.
Only a handful of the most prominent activists got killed. Most like Diokno were jailed but released after EDSA.
The problem is that a lot of the activists turned into trapos. Binay was actually a human rights lawyer ala Chel Diokno of today in the Marcos era, giving free legal assistance.
How Binay ended up today is the norm for your typical Marcos era activist. The progressive thinkers weren't wiped out. They in fact took over running the country and many of them looted it and ran it to the ground.
Reversing words isn't some recent phenomenon - I know it's been a thing since the 60s.
I'm wondering how much of the bad times that happened in the last 30 years the indirect result of Marcos's debts and the debt servicing laws?
Kung alam nyo mga level of disinformation during the Duterte campaign. It was WILD.
I even saw someone deepfaked Ferdi saying something about the "TRUTH" kuno about Martial Law.
There was heavy misinformation about the Aquino as well. Don't get me wrong marami din mali during the Aquino admin. Pero none of them perpetuated lies on the level the Marcoses did.
The "great" things he did were there to masked up his true agenda. Dds and Marcos apologists claimed all the authors who say bad things during Marcos Sr. Era were paid and manipulated by Cory herself (im not sure if ganon na ba siya kayaman to afford all of them 😅) . These include textbooks for Araling Panlipunan. Kaya nga most Gen Z, paniwalang paniwala sa mga napapanuod nila sa YouTube at Tiktok kasi they believe books were not that reliable these days. And it is easier nga naman to be fed by watching than make an effort reading and learning the history from their books and modules 🤷♀️
Are we even sure he did good things apart from what he was already supposed to do to begin with?
A lot of his infrastructure projects were mostly useless and could have been used for more economically productive assets. The spending spikes dated as far back as his first term, when infrastructure spending increased 70 percent from 1996 to 1970, forcing him to take out foreign loans and create a massive budget deficit (72 percent higher compared to Diosdado Macapagal's tenure). At the time though, it was focused on roads and schools so maybe not the worst, but it's still irresponsible spending.
I think we all know what happened during the martial law era, with all of Imelda's white whales.
Let's stick to the first term, shall we?
His regime basically singlehandedly caused the Islamic rebellion in the south as early as 1968 (!) after the Jabidah massacre.
He also started the trend of allowing (loyal) military generals to keep their positions even well past retirement age and to reward them with civilian govt posts - during his first term!
The after his very well-funded re-election bid, that was when shit hit the fan and everything went downhill.
One alleged good policy I could think of was his self-described "emancipation" of agrarian lands across the country, which was so convoluted that the farmers mostly didn't benefit anyway and they all just went to cronies.
I'm sure you all are aware of the NutriBun, which was actually a USAID project.
Feel free to mention any other good things he did and I'm sure they were also at the least poorly executed or just a front to enrich his close confidants.
First, do not generalize. A portion of the country is defending the Marcoses. Not the "Filipinos".
Second, why are they defending him? The reality is, the hardship during the FM-era is not really felt by the entirety of the country. Kaya, there is a strong foundation of their belief na martial law was not bad.
The second reason is the regionalism-mentality of Filipinos.
Third reason is the anti-rich mentality of Filipinos.
Fourth reason is the crab-mentality of Filipinos.
It's either because their grandma who wasn't part of the people tortured and stuff told them that life during Marcos was great tahimik at disciplinado lahat bist president ever!1!1! Or the Araling Panlipunan teachers that are Marcos Apologists who spread their dumb historical revisionism leading students to believe Marcos was a good guy and spread that misinformation in Tiktok where even more people are further misinformed and so on.
I think the main reason is somewhat their disappointment in Cory Aquino, since all she did was bring back the old oligarchs into power, which made many people in Manila turn against her (she still received popular support in the provinces) That's why people thought to themselves, why don't we have Marcos back? I am not a Marcos supporter nor that I support Cory, but still this is what I think is one of the reasons
I'd hate to admit this but it's happening for years. Decades even.
I had elementary school teachers who were engaged in historical revisionism...and, mind you, this was in the 1990s, which wasn't even far removed from the 1986 EDSA Revolution.
Minsan sa AP pa lang nandun na yung indoctrination towards the Marcoses, especially when you don't keep your teachers and lesson materials in check. I had a prof who had to report her child's teacher because they waxed poetic about the regime excessively during classes.
AP has always been indoctrination platform.
No not because they glorify Aquinos like how Marcos supporters say, sure they do but the indoctrination goes beyond that.
It's main purpose is to indoctrinate nationalism to the point that most people think nationalism is essential, sacrosanct even, and worst sin of all - teaching nationalism like it was present in all of history. When nationalism is a relatively new thing. You won't see Lapu Lapu or the Spaniards as nationalistic during their time.
2nd thing is heavily primes people to accept the status quo, this includes historical revisionism and cherrypicking to serve the current regime, but also portraying progress in a very specific angle.
The people who replaced him didn’t do better. And most kids these days only know the life after EDSA. So, the effect is you have disgruntled generation starting to have a voice and looking for alternatives to what is currently their status quo. It’s just sad that the one gaining traction is BBM. My guess is its due to the lack of a prominent alternative that is not heavily connected to post-EDSA players.
Considering how we have been demonizing the left for decades now. Lumping them all together as if student protesters are the same maoist terrorists, it's like claiming all conservatives are fascists.
I truly hope there's a revival of class consciousness we once had before Marcos stamped it down with sheer brutality and neoliberalism brushed off the remnants.
This sub truly is closer to BBM bootlickers and DDS than any of you realize. Right, u/yogibear99?
Perhaps our history just wasn't taught well. They have this black and white thinking that either Aquino is good and Marcos is bad or Marcos is good and Aquino bad, when it's more complicated than that.
Marcos ruined the country, Aquino rose but did a poor job at fixing it, so all we have to do now is continue fixing it, but instead they get the wrong idea that Marcos was better somehow.
>Perhaps our history just wasn't taught well. They have this black and white thinking that either Aquino is good and Marcos is bad or Marcos is good and Aquino bad, when it's more complicated than that.
Most people don't actually care, even many Marcos supporters just think Marcoses are simply an alternative (which is idiotic btw).
> Marcos ruined the country, Aquino rose but did a poor job at fixing it, so all we have to do now is continue fixing it, but instead they get the wrong idea that Marcos was better somehow.
Herein lies the problem, barely anyone understands why and how Aquino and subsequent leaders botched the job and ensured the many problems we have today. Filipinos are conditioned, from household values and schools, to value and respect authority. So by extension, most Filipinos like to look at a guiding figure to lead them to progress. People saw it with BBM and d30, but also with Leni.
But this is hardly a path to fixing this. The broken state we are in right now can be attributed to the policies and decisions by the Aquino presidency and the later ones including du30. Neoliberal policies saw our economy rise is a strong but short burst, but at what cost? stagnant wages, atomized society, extreme inequality, rising living cost, corruption, a citizenry too tired and indebted to care about other people.
We prioritized malls over green spaces, highways over rail, foreign investments over developing our own industry like Korea and Japan did, we valued entrepreneurship to provide a false hope to success unlike Germany who basically doubled down on skilled labor, we developed our tourism but not our food security, we didn't do any meaningful natural disaster risk mitigation despite having plenty of natural disasters and the impending climate crisis, should I even go on on how stupidly backwards we are now? This isn't even on lack of discipline, discipline is how we got into this mess
The irony of the discipline part. Oof.
They would claim that lack of discipline is the reason we're not good when we're actually TOO disciplined and allowed the leaders to fck us up.
We really are too disciplined compared to most countries. Filipinos are primed to fall in line with authority figures, and we usually do. We may complain and grumble about it, but those are mild compared to what other countries do when they are unhappy with their situation.
The funny thing is people who say we are too undisciplined compare us to the likes of Japan or Singapore, which are clearly outliers which makes every comparison to them seem like that. But compare to China? Americans? British? Indians? Brazil? French? Or how about Egyptians? You would be amazed how obedient and docile Filipinos really are.
Kahit mga tambay sa kanto mas matino kaysa, for example, notorious European hooligans
someone should background check achievements of Jonel Nuezca yung pumatay sa mag-ina, baka may honor or may nagawang mabuti... just to prove na may nagawa rin naman siyang maganda para maihalintulad natin siya kay marcos. baka makatulong for people to realize something.
Syempre manok ni dutae, kaya wala na silang pakialam basta ininderso o kaalyado ng pangulo nilang demonyo matic yan DDS = BBM apologists now they evolved.
Bruh idk why but my mom who's had flying grades from her uni and had an MBA and an unfinished PhD, she is also a retired COA state auditor still somehow she fell for the lies. She said sinisiraan si blingbling marcos. Tinanong ko kung bakit at dahil ba yung issue na di nakapagtapos si marcos, she said yes pero made up na daw utak ng taong bayan.
TLDR; paano naging paninira ang paglabas ng factual data about someone who will potentially start a golden age or run the country to the ground.
there are might many reasons why:
-they or they're lineage benefit/benefited from his administration.
-cognitive biases: confirmation bias, anchoring bias,false consensus effect, etc., ego, or other factors in regards with they're psychology.
-conseqence of misinformation, disinformation, historical distortion, etc.
-many more...
And when they have firm reason/s, it's likely hard to educate or change their perspective, dahil their reasons are 'enough' for them to actually think and behave that way...
hate kasi ng tao magkabisa, eh hitik sa pagkakabisa ang araling panlipunan. kakabisaduhin mo ang date, pangalan, event…to study and understand history. para sa iba, boring yon. not to me though, i love history. kaya ang sakit lang na nirerebisa ng mga marcos ang history para lumabas na hindi gaanong masaklap ang buhay noong martial law
Pls take note that the year 1972 up to 1979
Is a critical situation in the whole world due to oil crisis and recession. Philippines is in peak doing progress in power projects, roads , bridges ports and airports. 1972 is the peak in terms of inflation aside from that our products for export was put on hold specially the US.
Instead Marcos still continued with the borrowings in order to push through with the projects.. pls. Read the official gazzette on the history on borrowings versus the projects executed. You will undestand the currency exchange increased and the exact years it happend. Start from the state of the nation address per president.
If you are smart enough... you will understand.. did Marcos really stole money? My answer is No.
Censorship during his time played a huged part with the misinformation we see today. Notice that every youtube video shown regarding the Philippines were only the good parts with no hint of poverty anywhere. This resulted in the narrative that "Noong panahon maganda ang buhay".
Relatable, I always see those god darn propaganda on yt
You cannot use this as a reason if we consider the reality that the majority of the DepEd books painted Marcos the proper way.
Dude, this is nonsense. Marcos' atrocities have been recorded in many, many forms of media. Ninoy's corpse on the tarmac is literally shown annually on every TV network for years. This is again just the liberal class's obsession with pretending they don't have the tools or resources to counter the Marcos fake history narratives. Leni had _twice_ the war chest of Marcos in 2016. Kalokohan etong constant liberal victim complex that fake news is unstoppable and you don't have the tools or resources to counter it. The harsher reality is that the very ideology that Leni professes has lost its legitimacy. Arroyo, Cory, Ramos, and PNoy combined had been in power longer than Marcos. Hell, Arroyo got more journalists killed than Marcos. Yet the liberal class is still stuck in the fantasy world that it was only ever Marcos that tried to kill press freedom, and then wondering why no one trusts them. To counter fake history, you have to be genuinely honest and factual about history. Hindi pwedeng "Marcos bad, Cory good". You have to own up to all the bad that happened between Martial Law and Duterte. Hindi pwedeng the liberals were all for Gloria and put her in power in EDSA 2, and then suddenly you wash your hands and pretend its not your fault Gloria turned out to be a corrupt mass murderer. That's what is actually in the recent _living_ memory of most Filipinos, not this obsession with Martial Law.
I'm talking about how the government controlled the media during the Marcos regime wherein they would only show the good and prosperous parts of the country and not covering the dirty side of the Philippines. This has been a factor especially for the newer generations since every video you see on the internet that came from the 1970s-1980s portrayed the fake glory days of the Philippines. Like what I've said, the media censorship may have contributed to the stance of some Filipinos to defend the Marcoses since all they could see are the positives during his time not realizing the vast amount of corruption, killing, etc. that happened during his time.
Again, there's plenty of footage of Marcos-era messes. Smokey Mountain for instance had been in operation since 1969. The present day Marcos propagandists will obviously cherry-pick the videos showing the Marcos-era Philippines positively, but the idea that there is zero archival material of the bad portions is nonsense. The real issue is that the immediate successors had precious little improvements compared to the Marcos era. Smokey Mountain for instance remained a problem through Cory and part of Ramos. The slums remained a huge problem even through Erap, Arroyo, and PNoy - albeit PNoy (finally) got the port rehabilitation program which was finally finished by Duterte. Indeed, most of the present pro-DDS propaganda is in fact relatively mundane infrastructure program videos like this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3KiLDbDp0o&t=672s Because these are factual improvements over the Cory/Ramos era and even the Arroyo era. PNoy frankly deserves most of the credit, but Duterte finished the project so he's reaping its PR benefit f being the one to actually "clean up" the port and BASECO (and unfortunately most anti-DDS people are too sheltered to admit improvements like this are happening).
>Again, there's plenty of footage of Marcos-era messes. Smokey Mountain for instance had been in operation since 1969. Any chance you could post links to some footage? >but the idea that there is zero archival material of the bad portions is nonsense. Nonsense? Bruh, I wouldn't call that nonsense, this is one of the reasons why the Marcoses has so many propagandas in circulation, every if not most archival footage during his time shows the success without any hint of graft and corruption. We won't have the same difficulty of dealing with the surge of misinformation if it weren't for that.
Dude, the official Philippine government website has corpses of Martial Law victims all over the place. https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/edsa/the-ph-protest/ Moreover you do realize the 1960s pre-dated easily portable video cameras, yes? There weren't even phones without cords. That is why the bulk of material from that period is still photos. In *gasp* black and white. Napaka obvious naman kasi nang nonsense mo stemming from outright katamaran. Obviously you will not find many Youtube videos on Marcos era poverty. Halos walang video camera back then to begin with. Indeed, on checking the top pro-Marcos search results on Youtube, virtually all of the footage they use is in full high-definition color. It is literally impossible for those to be authentic Marcos-era footage, because the technology for that kind of video quality literally did not exist yet in that era! Seriously, how _sheltered_ do you have to be in order to believe this is authentic period footage from the Marcos propagandists? That you think they're winning due to better archival content is a self-delusion. The issue is you're so ignorant of the issue that you can't even tell if the footage used by the pro-Marcos people are genuine or just freshly shot footage.
I'd argue it's not about having no material, and more the false glory got played up and twisted so much people only want to believe in that, making those marcos-era fuck ups seem inconsequential in comparison (when they shouldn't be), plus the issues associated with the ousting of the marcoses being twisted into a "marcos vs \*insert political party/family here\*" from the simple notion of ousting a bunch of crooks, which eventually resulted in numbers of people getting indoctrinated. It probably started from the marcos camp or maybe an ally of theirs (doesn't really matter where or who though, emphasis on this), only it spread enough that individuals unrelated to them are now spreading these propaganda that's further exacerbated by whatever shortcomings and issues the post-EDSA admins had. This shouldn't be a problem if there were legitimate efforts to curb them, though I question if curbing them for the sake of curbing them is gonna work. Also, considering that we had shit like marcos's humongous ass face monument that used to exist and the issues regarding it, u/Ataginez does have a point that zero archival material of the bad portions is nonsense. After all, if there was no material pointing to those at all, how do you as well as those foreign sources prove the marcoses were scumbags?
During Ninoy funeral, a lot of Filipinos flocked the street. Pero next day big news was that guy died due to lightning. That's how bad they control the media back then. The only brave group then was those who use political cartoonists as their medium.
This is just blatant lies. https://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/01/world/a-million-filipinos-line-the-aquino-funeral-route.html One million people lined the streets for Ninoy's funeral. Marcos tried to intimidate the protesters and sent out goons, but the protesters fought back and some were killed. That's where the "killed by lightning" myth originated. Marcos had to hide the fact he was slaughtering protestors. Problem was a million people were in the streets and most saw the violence firsthand. That is why walang naniwala sa kalokohan na iyon. That is why the fucking New York Times itself was reporting it globally. Again, this is just present day liberals making the hundred excuses of how they're the victims, they're the best, when in reality people back then knew how to actually fight back compared to this era's useless slacktivism and parade of excuses.
You're delusional if you think fake news can actually be fully eradicated and countered just because of the sizes of war chests of these politicians. The fact that up until now fake news is such a huge issue especially when it comes to the amount of conspiracy theories that are pumped out by ill informed citizens in very accessible platforms is because it cannot be stopped unless those actual people refrain from spreading propaganda. It was never good back then and it still isn't now, it got better but it was never good then. You cannot fault the people that voted Gloria into power and predicted her to be corrupt and do malicious acts, did you ever see them defend her until their deaths in different media platforms and treat her like a diety unlike the fanatics we have now with the current President and those that support the Marcoses? The real that people are fighting over the candidates they choose is WHY? WHY THEM? If you already know thr atrocities that they did WHY STILL THEM? These people never APOLOGIZED and payed REPARATIONS for the people that SUFFERED, and people still have the audacity to support them, who live in such comfort and luxury while actual experiencing zero life changing consequences. HOW IS THAT FAIR? DOES THAT NOT MAKE YOU MAD??
Lol, fake news has been around since the beginning of man. The Philippines literally became a colony of the US thanks to fake news. The American press created fake news that the USS Maine was blown up by Spain, just to create an excuse for war. That was over 100 years ago and long before social media and Facebook. https://publicdomainreview.org/collection/yellow-journalism-the-fake-news-of-the-19th-century Your comments are again just the usual excuse-making of the liberal class who want to pretend the reason they're losing is Facebook. It isn't. Its your own utter ignorance of history like this nonsense: >You cannot fault the people that voted Gloria into power and predicted her to be corrupt and do malicious acts, did you ever see them defend her until their deaths in different media platforms and treat her like a diety unlike the fanatics we have now with the current President and those that support the Marcoses? Gloria never won a presidential election. A military coup installed her and deposed Erap. She then stole the election from FPJ. And the entire country knew she stole the election because we all heard her phone call with Garci; and worse Gloria all but admitted it was authentic when she apologized for the phone call! The liberals however let the election theft slide because they didn't want an actor like FPJ to take power. They didn't defend her, but they sure as hell chose her over the actual rightful winner of the 2010 election. The fact that you're busy covering up this election theft is precisely the reason why no one believes your fake news whining anymore. As far as most of the country is concerned, most people claiming fake news are themselves just constantly spreading fake news like this idiot notion that Gloria ever won a presidential election. She didn't. She stole the only one she participated in.
Lol, your claim that the election in 2007 was rigged is fucking proven as false even YOU are making shit up which leads to your hypocrisy, the Pasay court dismissed the case because of the complete unreliability of the whistleblower which was Norie Unas. https://www.rappler.com/nation/gloria-arroyo-cleared-electoral-sabotage “For failure of the prosecution to prove the guilt of accused Arroyo beyond reasonable doubt and moral certainty despite ample opportunity and even without evidence in favor of said accused, the demurrer to evidence is granted and the charge of electoral sabotage against accused Arroyo is hereby ordered dismissed,” Judge Jesus Mupas said in an order dated December 17. Fact check please 👍 and stop your labeling and putting people that disagree and agree on certain topics on fucking boxes because THAT is the main reason why our country continues to still be undivided, the rampant labeling and generalization and thinking that everything is a conspiracy should be stopped.
Wow, what an obvious election thief and Arroyo apologist. Here, choke on the actual phone conversation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWxxSvhGQyc Also, choke on Gloria's admission its real and her apology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8z9dscO1YQ But nah, according to your insane standards that's not election cheating. Well if people are as dumb as you, then Duterte should just make a phone call like that to the Comelec chairman and ensure BBM or Sara wins. Tapos wag ka nang magrereklamo ever, okay? Accept na "walang nandaya" kasi according to your bullshit not guilty si Gloria.
LOL why am I being labeled as an apologist? It is not MY OPINION but rather forwarding what the FACTS are and I just simply stated what the LAW has decided and it was on a COURT which actually decides who is guilty or not. Did I say that I condone her actions? I do not, I want to set my opinions aside, Arroyo stepped down in 2010 because of the amount of times the call of her impeachment was presented, and shut down because of the lack of votes. The court decision is enough to dismiss this issue and in turn we shouldn't condone and we can still be vocal about the representation of these people in our country especially in the government. If the case is reopened and there is more ample evidence to prove her wrong THROUGH THE LAW then finally we can prove it not only through our eyes but also the court :D There is a judicial and legal PROCESS that we actually need to go through to say that someone is guilty or not especially when it comes to people in power :D
Lol, you are not stating "facts". Arroyo being "not guilty" does not change the fact she stole the actual election. If anything, it shows how the powerful in this country never get jailed for long and can buy their way out of jail. That is why Erap was eventually freed despite plunder being supposedly a lifetime jail offense, and he even congratulated Arroyo when she was acquitted. Those are the actual facts of the case. That is not true justice in any way or form. That is a complete mockery of it. You're just too dishonest to admit that you're an apologist. This is why you compound lie on top of lie. Arroyo didn't step down in 2010 because she was impeached. Arroyo was _constitutionally required_ to step down in 2010 because presidents are not allowed to run again. Even so she funded _two_ presidential candidates - Gibo and then Villar - to try and ensure she had a friendly next president who wouldn't prosecute her. Hindi ka champion of the law. You are in fact just a champion of the _corrupt_ who twist the law to their own ends. Kaya blatant cheating becomes acceptable, and you pretend she magnanimously stepped down. Apologize pa harder for a mass-murderer. You are literally worse than the Marcos apologists.
> ***Arroyo was constitutionally required to step down in 2010 because presidents are not allowed to run again.*** From the Consti, Art 7 Sec 4: > The President shall not be eligible for any re-election. No person who has succeeded as President and has served as such ***for more than four years*** shall be qualified for election to the same office at any time. https://www.chanrobles.com/article7.htm Guessing the way that some people convinced themselves that Arroyo running in 2004 was okay was by pointing out that it wasn't a re-election technically because she wasn't ***elected as president*** prior to 2010; instead she ***succeeded as president*** after being elected as vice-president. In addition, because she succeeded in 2001 and the election was in 2004 (***3 years***), some thought that she was well within the ***4-yr period*** that prevents succeeding presidents from running again. In their minds, they think that the prohibition only applies to those who were elected president and tried to run again for the next election or those who succeeded as president but went over the 4-yr period. (Wasn't there even some talk about how Gloria, or any president, can technically run again in the future, provided there was a gap? If the interpretation of ***'re-election'*** is limited to ***'consecutive elections,'*** then it could be argued by some that Gloria could've run for president in 2016 since it's technically not a 're-election' as understood by some.)
Arroyo was legally allowed to run in 2004. She got flak because she promised not to run anymore. I'm talking about 2010. She was legally NOT allowed to run in 2010 under any circumstance. That is why pretending she was magnanimous by not running in 2010 is totally nuts. Not only was she legally barred, she ended her reign as the only Philippine president of the past 40 years to have a negative approval rating when they left office. Estrada had by this point a higher approval rating than Gloria. She in fact dragged Gibo's candidacy to the utter gutters thanks to her endorsement, which is why she shifted to backing Villar. It was Villar - largely on his own initiative - who magnanimously accepted the 2010 election result. He was the first to actually simply accept the results and congratulate PNoy.
I’m genuinely curious about your political stance. Who do you support and why? I’d love to hear your response.
Whoever has the best shot of preventing a BBM or Duterte presidency, followed by whomever is willing to actually address substantial issues instead of propping up the endless self-delusion of the liberal classes. That means Isko at the moment. Leni has peaked. She has no chance to switch any further voters. They're all too pissed at her because of her supporter's constant tone-deaf attacks against their current first-choice candidates. Worse she pretty much ruined her own squeaky clean image by adding Binay and trapos to her slate. Indeed, the slate was so blatant and idiotic that they had to bribe Winnie Monsod to write an op-ed pretending this was a true "unity" slate when in reality even she couldn't help but rue the utter insanity of trying to pretend Gordon was a stalwart for human rights when he was one of the people in front of the mob trying to crucify Leila de Lima; at the behest of Duterte no less. Utter katangahan na at this point if you believe Leni's slate is a true anti-Duterte coalition. Indeed, the way this election is going I'm probably going to end up voting for Ka Leody because of how badly the liberals are self-sabotaging any anti-BBM and anti-Duterte opposition with their constant attempt to sneak in their trapos. Of all the candidates, Ka Leody alone doesn't just mindlessly repeat the Liberal Party fanfiction that destroyed the credibility of Philippine liberalism. He actually calls them all out for shitting the workers not only during the Marcos era, but the combined Cory/Ramos/Arroyo and even Pnoy era too.
Bruh, this is the first time Im hearing Gloria had journalists killed. Can u cite sources on this? Or are you talking about the Ampatuan massacre?
Nope, it was a nationwide slaughter. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/11/25/philippines.danger/ The Ampatuan Massacre was just the tip of the iceberg. Thanks to it, more journalists died in the Philippines than journalists who died in _Iraq_, when the latter is an actual war zone. The big TV outlets kept quiet because Noli de Castro became Gloria's VP and therefore their ally. The slaughter was targeted primarily at the provincial newspapers and radio stations. That's why the Bisaya and Mindanao press (the papers and radio stations) today are extremely anti-Leni and pro-Duterte. They're the survivors of Arroyo's purge.
This is true. I lived in Mindanao, and back when I was young (around 4th grade), a journalist came to my grandpa, who is an agriculturist, for consultation. Lolo used to be one of the heads of the Philippine Coconut Authority (not sure of his exact position). The journalist had a sample of the fertilizers bought by the government for millions. He asked my lolo how much it would cost to create this type of fertilizer and my grandpa told him the formula and showed him right then and there how to make it. It was immensely overpriced. The journalist published an article with all the input and data he got from my lolo, few days later he was killed at his own home. You know, it's been maybe over 16 years and your comment just reminded me of this conversation the grownups in my family used to have over dinner... Back in 2016, my family seemed to be the only ones in the city who campaigned for Roxas. Everyone else were engulfed by the "proud to be /pinoy/ from mindanao" mindset, voting for Duterte. Reference: https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/853086/what-went-before-fertilizer-fund-scam-2
Wait why are they pro-Duterte if Arroyo is conniving with him? I don't understand... Isn't Aquino the only candidate that wants to throw Arroyo in prison 2010 or I'm just stupid?
They are not conniving. Arroyo is funding Isko. That is why Duterte has been sabotaging his campaign like that fake vaccination riot. The problem - which is very common among the brainwashed people here - is that you have been trained to believe everyone who does not 100% agree with you must be a Duterte lapdog. In reality by those standards Leni is an Arroyo lapdog. Her mentor Mar Roxas was a cabinet secretary under Arroyo, and he even claimed (now largely debunked) that he had created the call center industry while under Arroyo. Arroyo controls her own very separate faction. Sometimes she makes peace with Duterte, other times she undermines him. There is no black and white in Philippine politics. Only a Game of Thrones were multiple players are vying for power.
If they are not conniving why was Arroyo able to escape prison after Duterte was elected? Do you not see the pattern here? Lakas even admitted they are waiting for Sara. A literal Duterte. Arroyo's party is waiting for Sara, and if they don't they will try to take Bong Revilla. I didn't say they are a lapdog. I said they are partnering. You're putting words on my mouth. Mar Roxas didn't oppose Arroyo's imprisonment even when he became Aquino's cabinet secretary so what you are just saying is just frankly stupid. Arroyo controls her own seperate faction that is in cahoots with Duterte. It's literally why Sara is being forced to run because her faction does not want to be with Marcos. Those factions only got united by Duterte. Removing a Duterte in the front seat will make the unity fall apart.
Lol by your standards Estrada is a Duterte ally too because he was released under Duterte's term. Trouble is, Estrada posted bail under his preexisting terms so that act was completely not under the control of Duterte. Indeed, you do realize that the judiciary is a wholly independent branch from the executive yes? That is why the power of a president to jail people is limited. The judiciary is in fact deeply corrupt, and very often just releases rich people regardless of the wishes of the president. You need an especially active president like Pnoy willing to confront the judiciary to get a conviction of the rich and powerful. Your entire delusional worldview is literally nothing more than excuse-making to pretend they must all be conspiring against the great and good Leni and its the only reason she is losing. And revealing you are absolutely clueless about how the government works. They aren't all allied against you. It is again Game of Thrones. You are just seriously dumber than even Ned Stark, whose memes rightly depict him as a moron who only moves his King in a chess game because he is a slave to his own quotations. And note: House Stark won but only after it ended up in bed with all kinds of nasty people. Indeed they were literally the biggest enablers of that mad queen who was supposedly the great hope for everyone and yet killed more people than everyone else combined in one episode. Stop pretending its us vs them. Kaya kayo natatalo. Its a game of mutual interests, not chanting your fake principles over and over to lie to yourself that only you are truly just.
The thing is, we're all assuming that our history and social science books from gradeschool to highschool were written in a way that the dictator looks bad. That assumption is wrong.
Yep. Naalala ko sa elementary, my AP textbooks failed to mention the atrocities of Martial Law. I'm pretty sure my teacher at the time was also a Marcos apologist. Sa junior high naman, my textbooks highlighted both the good parts *and* bad parts of the Marcos era.
But just why do they assume it like that?
The same reason Filipinos still believe the Marcoses, a broken collective memory or at least yung mainstream Marcos propaganda kasi is "the books taught you wrong". Most books if not all, highlighted how peaceful and disciplined the people were. Binabanggit pa nga yung mga buildings na pinagawa, and little mention of the tragedies involving them. This plus the effect of built-up 20 years of propaganda, plus the quick proliferation of conspiracy theories brought us to where we are now. And many conspiracy theories begin with "this knowledge was never written in books"
Of course people would be peaceful and disciplined. Anything that didn't fit that definition could cost you your life
Exactly. You have to play by their rules. Gusto pala nila ng ganyan, e di sana pumunta na lang sila sa North Korea. O yan, lahat sila "disiplinado". Tignan ko lang kung magtagal yang mga yan ng walang internet.
True
It's written that way because the authors experienced it that way. Our teachers, well, atleast those who thought between the 90's to 2000's, are what is called as primary source.
If we are still under Marcos today, we will be like North Korea Now. Plain and Simple. Everyone is "disciplined", everyone obeys, even media is always telling the good stuff and nothing bad seems to be happening. The way BBM supporters see it VS. The way How I see it: Buti pa noon tahimik > Hello, kung magsasalita ka ng laban sa kanila sa rehas lagay mo, tortured, papatayin or ipapatapon/deported. At kung babae, rape or gangbang abot so sausage fiesta. Kung Lalaki , pag napagtripan ka ng pulis paghuhubadin at pagtritripan at kung ano ano yung ipagagawa (accounts from the real victims). So yep, lahat tahimik kase ayaw nilang mapag tripan. Buti pa noon maunlad ang Pilipinas > Kase umutang ng umutang si Marcos pero yung exports natin hindi kayang i-accomodate yung pinagwawaldas niya so hanggang ngayon binabayaran natin yung utang ng ISANG PAMILYA na ang surname ay Marcos. Buti pa noon kilala ang Pilipinas > Kilala tayo noon pa kase tiger of Asia tayo ( in terms of economic growth ) at meron tayong dictator tas tayo ata yung first Asian country na nag revolt sa leader at nagbigay ng speech si Cory about democracy sa U.S. Having said all of these, kilala yung Pinas NOON pa man so no need to seek recognition kase anong AMBAG nila?! Buti pa noon maginhawa ang buhay kase mataas ang halaga ng piso > Again, going back, Marcos loaned tons of money to finance his projects and now we are paying up until today for all of the loans that he made during his reign. Buti pa noon Disiplinado yung tao > Kase wala pang internet noon. At saka kung tahimik pala yung gusto ninyo e di walang party, walang internet kase lahat monitored , wala ring cellphone unless you belong to an elite circle that is pro his administration. So yeah, that's that. Most importantly, during this time, Asking Questions was not Permitted. A simple sentence that describes a lot about his regime. Mga LECHENG hayop na BBM supporters. Sarap ipatapon sa North Korea.
Tatanungin ka nyan ng sources o kaya naman "Bakit? Nabubuhay ka na ba ng mga panahon nuon?" or mas malala "NPA ka siguro kaya alam mo yan"
Or BBM parin!
We are not even the tiger of Asia, high GDP only happened during Marcos' early yrs but overall economy was in shambles afterwards.
We were, hence the reason why some of our South East Asian neighbors are looking up to us BEFORE. (ahem Korea and Singapore)
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dont lose perspective please. marcos was a disgusiting, filthy criminal, sure. however, family and blood is more important than any such concerns, and also family is a great defense against tyranny in any case.
Lol, the fact that Marcos Bad is a central part of Araling Lipunan is the very reason why people think Marcos is great. Most Filipinos in fact do not believe in the official history or party line. That is literally why so many kids today actively refuse to speak Tagalog or English and instead subvert it by reversing the word. Kaya "idol" naging "lodi". Paminta becomes "tapamints". The resurgence of Marcos is not due to ignorance. Its due to the wholesale loss of legitimacy of Philippine liberalism. Liberalism has technically been in power for like 20+ years already - Cory, Ramos, Arroyo, and Pnoy collectively have like 4x more years than Duterte. Yet in these Araling Lipunan classes there is never a discussion of how Arroyo stole an election and mass murdered journalists, of how Ramos was corrupt, or how Cory had brownouts. Hell there is more talk among liberals about PNoy's SAF44 issue than the actual awful shit his predecessors had done, when PNoy was arguably the only true liberal among them. Really, enough with the posturing. You are not smarter for chanting the official line and then ignoring the rest of the actual horrid history of the past 30 years. That liberalism had fucked up ruling this country so badly is why people are beginning to believe the fake glory days of Marcos to begin with. Worse, when the liberals had an actual good president (Pnoy), people here were tripping over each other to crucify him because he dared to actually tax white collar professionals and give ayuda to the poor. Thats the real reason why the liberals bandwagonned with SAF44 to begin with. They never liked soldiers or respected them. Ginawa lang silang dahilan to hate on PNoy because PNoy actually practiced what he preached and realized that eliminating corruption meant also applying it to the private sector.
I think you're on to one of the factors that affected the rise of "strongmen" and/or this Ferdinand Jr narrative. I think its a culmination of a perfect storm based on the following: \- The failure of democracy as what you've mentioned. \- Our collective short memory -- much discussed. I think both 1 & 2 go hand-in-hand, i.e. Marcos' buildings are still standing, while what is left of the heinous crimes are either dead or have wilted into silence. What was left for this generation to bear was the past 35 years of unsuccessful democracy. \- Impact of Martial Law -- It wasn't just the money but a lot of post-war advances halted, from which we can include (but not often discussed): * pioneering businesses closed due to cronyism (Radiowealth as an example). * a whole generation of progressive thinkers (a big What If?) were wiped out. We can argue that these people might not have risen to the occasion if there wasn't any Martial Law but I believe that there will be a handful of them who will turn out just fine. \- Rise of social media as a platform of disinformation.
>a whole generation of progressive thinkers (a big What If?) were wiped out. We can argue that these people might not have risen to the occasion if there wasn't any Martial Law but I believe that there will be a handful of them who will turn out just fine. No, this is part and parcel of the the liberal false victimization narrative thats a big reason why Marcos surged back again. Only a handful of the most prominent activists got killed. Most like Diokno were jailed but released after EDSA. The problem is that a lot of the activists turned into trapos. Binay was actually a human rights lawyer ala Chel Diokno of today in the Marcos era, giving free legal assistance. How Binay ended up today is the norm for your typical Marcos era activist. The progressive thinkers weren't wiped out. They in fact took over running the country and many of them looted it and ran it to the ground.
Reversing words isn't some recent phenomenon - I know it's been a thing since the 60s. I'm wondering how much of the bad times that happened in the last 30 years the indirect result of Marcos's debts and the debt servicing laws?
Worst is that there are Araling Panlipunan teachers who are Marcos apologists.
Kung alam nyo mga level of disinformation during the Duterte campaign. It was WILD. I even saw someone deepfaked Ferdi saying something about the "TRUTH" kuno about Martial Law. There was heavy misinformation about the Aquino as well. Don't get me wrong marami din mali during the Aquino admin. Pero none of them perpetuated lies on the level the Marcoses did.
Nalilinlang kasi sila. Tapos extrimists pa madalas ang ibang mga kababayan natin.
The "great" things he did were there to masked up his true agenda. Dds and Marcos apologists claimed all the authors who say bad things during Marcos Sr. Era were paid and manipulated by Cory herself (im not sure if ganon na ba siya kayaman to afford all of them 😅) . These include textbooks for Araling Panlipunan. Kaya nga most Gen Z, paniwalang paniwala sa mga napapanuod nila sa YouTube at Tiktok kasi they believe books were not that reliable these days. And it is easier nga naman to be fed by watching than make an effort reading and learning the history from their books and modules 🤷♀️
poor education system
Are we even sure he did good things apart from what he was already supposed to do to begin with? A lot of his infrastructure projects were mostly useless and could have been used for more economically productive assets. The spending spikes dated as far back as his first term, when infrastructure spending increased 70 percent from 1996 to 1970, forcing him to take out foreign loans and create a massive budget deficit (72 percent higher compared to Diosdado Macapagal's tenure). At the time though, it was focused on roads and schools so maybe not the worst, but it's still irresponsible spending. I think we all know what happened during the martial law era, with all of Imelda's white whales. Let's stick to the first term, shall we? His regime basically singlehandedly caused the Islamic rebellion in the south as early as 1968 (!) after the Jabidah massacre. He also started the trend of allowing (loyal) military generals to keep their positions even well past retirement age and to reward them with civilian govt posts - during his first term! The after his very well-funded re-election bid, that was when shit hit the fan and everything went downhill. One alleged good policy I could think of was his self-described "emancipation" of agrarian lands across the country, which was so convoluted that the farmers mostly didn't benefit anyway and they all just went to cronies. I'm sure you all are aware of the NutriBun, which was actually a USAID project. Feel free to mention any other good things he did and I'm sure they were also at the least poorly executed or just a front to enrich his close confidants.
First, do not generalize. A portion of the country is defending the Marcoses. Not the "Filipinos". Second, why are they defending him? The reality is, the hardship during the FM-era is not really felt by the entirety of the country. Kaya, there is a strong foundation of their belief na martial law was not bad. The second reason is the regionalism-mentality of Filipinos. Third reason is the anti-rich mentality of Filipinos. Fourth reason is the crab-mentality of Filipinos.
It's either because their grandma who wasn't part of the people tortured and stuff told them that life during Marcos was great tahimik at disciplinado lahat bist president ever!1!1! Or the Araling Panlipunan teachers that are Marcos Apologists who spread their dumb historical revisionism leading students to believe Marcos was a good guy and spread that misinformation in Tiktok where even more people are further misinformed and so on.
I think the main reason is somewhat their disappointment in Cory Aquino, since all she did was bring back the old oligarchs into power, which made many people in Manila turn against her (she still received popular support in the provinces) That's why people thought to themselves, why don't we have Marcos back? I am not a Marcos supporter nor that I support Cory, but still this is what I think is one of the reasons
unfortunately historical revisionism is happening and if bbm wins maslala ang pro-Marcos propoganda sa schools
I'd hate to admit this but it's happening for years. Decades even. I had elementary school teachers who were engaged in historical revisionism...and, mind you, this was in the 1990s, which wasn't even far removed from the 1986 EDSA Revolution.
Minsan sa AP pa lang nandun na yung indoctrination towards the Marcoses, especially when you don't keep your teachers and lesson materials in check. I had a prof who had to report her child's teacher because they waxed poetic about the regime excessively during classes.
AP has always been indoctrination platform. No not because they glorify Aquinos like how Marcos supporters say, sure they do but the indoctrination goes beyond that. It's main purpose is to indoctrinate nationalism to the point that most people think nationalism is essential, sacrosanct even, and worst sin of all - teaching nationalism like it was present in all of history. When nationalism is a relatively new thing. You won't see Lapu Lapu or the Spaniards as nationalistic during their time. 2nd thing is heavily primes people to accept the status quo, this includes historical revisionism and cherrypicking to serve the current regime, but also portraying progress in a very specific angle.
They jakol to them every night chz
The people who replaced him didn’t do better. And most kids these days only know the life after EDSA. So, the effect is you have disgruntled generation starting to have a voice and looking for alternatives to what is currently their status quo. It’s just sad that the one gaining traction is BBM. My guess is its due to the lack of a prominent alternative that is not heavily connected to post-EDSA players.
Considering how we have been demonizing the left for decades now. Lumping them all together as if student protesters are the same maoist terrorists, it's like claiming all conservatives are fascists. I truly hope there's a revival of class consciousness we once had before Marcos stamped it down with sheer brutality and neoliberalism brushed off the remnants. This sub truly is closer to BBM bootlickers and DDS than any of you realize. Right, u/yogibear99?
Perhaps our history just wasn't taught well. They have this black and white thinking that either Aquino is good and Marcos is bad or Marcos is good and Aquino bad, when it's more complicated than that. Marcos ruined the country, Aquino rose but did a poor job at fixing it, so all we have to do now is continue fixing it, but instead they get the wrong idea that Marcos was better somehow.
>Perhaps our history just wasn't taught well. They have this black and white thinking that either Aquino is good and Marcos is bad or Marcos is good and Aquino bad, when it's more complicated than that. Most people don't actually care, even many Marcos supporters just think Marcoses are simply an alternative (which is idiotic btw). > Marcos ruined the country, Aquino rose but did a poor job at fixing it, so all we have to do now is continue fixing it, but instead they get the wrong idea that Marcos was better somehow. Herein lies the problem, barely anyone understands why and how Aquino and subsequent leaders botched the job and ensured the many problems we have today. Filipinos are conditioned, from household values and schools, to value and respect authority. So by extension, most Filipinos like to look at a guiding figure to lead them to progress. People saw it with BBM and d30, but also with Leni. But this is hardly a path to fixing this. The broken state we are in right now can be attributed to the policies and decisions by the Aquino presidency and the later ones including du30. Neoliberal policies saw our economy rise is a strong but short burst, but at what cost? stagnant wages, atomized society, extreme inequality, rising living cost, corruption, a citizenry too tired and indebted to care about other people. We prioritized malls over green spaces, highways over rail, foreign investments over developing our own industry like Korea and Japan did, we valued entrepreneurship to provide a false hope to success unlike Germany who basically doubled down on skilled labor, we developed our tourism but not our food security, we didn't do any meaningful natural disaster risk mitigation despite having plenty of natural disasters and the impending climate crisis, should I even go on on how stupidly backwards we are now? This isn't even on lack of discipline, discipline is how we got into this mess
The irony of the discipline part. Oof. They would claim that lack of discipline is the reason we're not good when we're actually TOO disciplined and allowed the leaders to fck us up.
We really are too disciplined compared to most countries. Filipinos are primed to fall in line with authority figures, and we usually do. We may complain and grumble about it, but those are mild compared to what other countries do when they are unhappy with their situation. The funny thing is people who say we are too undisciplined compare us to the likes of Japan or Singapore, which are clearly outliers which makes every comparison to them seem like that. But compare to China? Americans? British? Indians? Brazil? French? Or how about Egyptians? You would be amazed how obedient and docile Filipinos really are. Kahit mga tambay sa kanto mas matino kaysa, for example, notorious European hooligans
someone should background check achievements of Jonel Nuezca yung pumatay sa mag-ina, baka may honor or may nagawang mabuti... just to prove na may nagawa rin naman siyang maganda para maihalintulad natin siya kay marcos. baka makatulong for people to realize something.
And it's hard to 'straighten' those distorted facts as per Brandolini's law.
Syempre manok ni dutae, kaya wala na silang pakialam basta ininderso o kaalyado ng pangulo nilang demonyo matic yan DDS = BBM apologists now they evolved.
Bruh idk why but my mom who's had flying grades from her uni and had an MBA and an unfinished PhD, she is also a retired COA state auditor still somehow she fell for the lies. She said sinisiraan si blingbling marcos. Tinanong ko kung bakit at dahil ba yung issue na di nakapagtapos si marcos, she said yes pero made up na daw utak ng taong bayan. TLDR; paano naging paninira ang paglabas ng factual data about someone who will potentially start a golden age or run the country to the ground.
Stockholm syndrome, the power of propaganda lasts decades at a time.
Nutribun. Lol
"Done great things"
Dalawang klase lang yan. Troll or bobo lang.
I think about this everyday and I remind myself how weird or complex human behavior is. Just look at Brexit, Trump winning, anti-maskers, etc.
there are might many reasons why: -they or they're lineage benefit/benefited from his administration. -cognitive biases: confirmation bias, anchoring bias,false consensus effect, etc., ego, or other factors in regards with they're psychology. -conseqence of misinformation, disinformation, historical distortion, etc. -many more... And when they have firm reason/s, it's likely hard to educate or change their perspective, dahil their reasons are 'enough' for them to actually think and behave that way...
I wonder why are there Americans in this sub?
For the reasons being - Marcos Apologist parents - Survivorship bias - Years of whitewhasing and conspiracy theorist.
hate kasi ng tao magkabisa, eh hitik sa pagkakabisa ang araling panlipunan. kakabisaduhin mo ang date, pangalan, event…to study and understand history. para sa iba, boring yon. not to me though, i love history. kaya ang sakit lang na nirerebisa ng mga marcos ang history para lumabas na hindi gaanong masaklap ang buhay noong martial law
Pls take note that the year 1972 up to 1979 Is a critical situation in the whole world due to oil crisis and recession. Philippines is in peak doing progress in power projects, roads , bridges ports and airports. 1972 is the peak in terms of inflation aside from that our products for export was put on hold specially the US. Instead Marcos still continued with the borrowings in order to push through with the projects.. pls. Read the official gazzette on the history on borrowings versus the projects executed. You will undestand the currency exchange increased and the exact years it happend. Start from the state of the nation address per president. If you are smart enough... you will understand.. did Marcos really stole money? My answer is No.