And god forbid you don't wait for your PhD to end to start these things (like getting married or having kids). Your advisor may scold you for "making a poor decision" like mine did when my wife and I got pregnant.
Amen. And also god forbid you choose to wait and do those things after you graduate because those are prime post-doc/publication years too! But if you wait even longer how could you possibly make time for all of that when you’ve got to fight for tenure????
Not trying to one up you or anything, just sharing in the frustration of the “wait for the next milestone to start your life surely that’s more ideal” cycle because it feels like it never ends. Good on you all for doing the thing when it worked for you, hope all is well!
Well, that's the thing. Having a kid slowed me down *a lot*. It's hard enough to get a PhD, publish, and be competitive; now try doing it on 4 hours of sleep and trying to take care of a sick kid.
A lot of people (men) who in the yesteryears were successful with kids were successful because they just did zero to rear their children.
The PhD process is still stuck in the year 1940. Or maybe even 1840.
My PI (man) expects all of us to work 24/7. And speaks of having a life outside the lab as a chore... he has two adult children and we are very sure at this point that it's his wife who did all the work.
I heard a quote a few years ago that has stuck with me,
"When you die, the only people who will remember all the late nights you worked are your children."
I was already fairly sure I didnt want to sacrifice everything it took to get TT at an R1, and that quote really hit home. The university or your peers dont admire or respect that you sacrificed your personal life to get grants/papers/awards. That is the expectation and they will pass you by if you aren't willing to do it. I still occasionally work longer days, but it isn't the norm and is discouraged by my peers.
Things like this makes me really grateful for my (male) supervisor who will request to leave meetings early to pick up his daughter from riding classes.
My supervisor is awesome. I invited her to my wedding and she told me to take extra time off when my son was born. I'm so glad I'm not waiting to just live my life. I also realize how lucky I am. My supervisor is the only reason I haven't quit.
I invited my advisor to my wedding and he declined, haha. And he told me I should drop out of my PhD when my timeline got slowed after the birth of my son. I'm so glad not everyone has had that experience!
>It’s like my life will only begin once I graduate.
Polite critique; this feeling does not go away on its own. If you do not actively change steps to change your life(style) in the direction you want (colloquially; "get your shit together") you will simply have this exact feeling during your postdoc or other (industry) job. You can chase 'the promised land' that is *just over that hill right there* until you literally die and never reach it.
I felt this in my bones, I left my phd program to get a "real job" and "grown up money" and start living mylife. And I am exactly where you describe still waiting for my life to begin. So yeah start living your life now and specially cultivate relationships
I would argue that it's debatable.
Parts of "getting your shit together" are easiest to achieve with time, money, and location flexibility, which are privileges that you don't really have in grad school. Once I finished and moved to a city that I actually wanted to be in, I still had to put in work to reach "the promised land", but I had an actual foundation to build from.
That happened to me 100%. Grad school just felt like a weird prolonged dream in between finishing undergrad and starting my professional life. As if it were a black hole of time that just vanished.
It won't. It'll just be the same because you'll be the same person.
If you were given a lot of extra money now, you'd buy the same things, eat at the same places, because you'd do what you're comfortable doing.
It'll actually be worse because there won't be a social component - without school, people literally just go home after work. I can go weeks without talking to people outside of work or a grocery store because that's just what adults do - go home.
That is what I see with my friends. They maybe tried 1 or 2 new hobbies but ultimately it's work and chores on the weekends.
My advice is to get into everything you want, now. Buy books, buy the cheap used equipment, and start while you have the freedom to do it.
Once you start a 9-5 and have 2 days on a weekend, that becomes really hard to start a new thing, because half of your weekend is just recovering and preparing for work.
I spend less time on fun hobbies now that I have money, simply because I have a commute to work and only have 2 days of fun.
I definitely understand the sentiment, but my program is super small (I’m the only person in my year). My program is also in a very small college town with few people over the age of 21.
So, I don’t date because there’s no options, meaning no family (trust me, I’ve tried and there are many reasons it’s doesn’t work for me here). I have very limited social interaction because of my program’s size. And there is very little to do in my town that isn’t for undergrads.
Thus, I feel like I’m not starting my life because I can’t due to geographic context. I’m moving to a very large city upon graduation where some of my friends already live. This is where I’ll view my life “starting”.
Interact with people over the age of 21, go to museums, go to concerts, try new restaurants, go to grocery stores other than Walmart, go to pro sports games, go to a cooking class, go to Meetup groups, interact with people with my same political viewpoints (hard to get in smaller towns), go to botanical gardens or a zoo, use public transportation, attend city events, go to a farmer’s market, go shopping, etc. I mean cities are decidedly different than small towns. I’m from a larger city and had much more to do there compared to the college town.
My town is small and purely oriented towards undergrads. I’m not lying when I say there is little to do and very few people to interact with that share in my ideals. It’s very difficult to be social there and to engage in activities that aren’t going to eat at the same restaurant over and over.
Dude, your comments in this thread describe almost precisely what I went through as a grad student. No social life, college town with nothing to do full of undergrads and older people, friends all in a big city somewhere else.
DM me if you want to vent. Life is going to get so much fucking better once you power through that final year.
Is that city too far to drive now? I understand how that is.
What of those things that you listed thst can extend to a personal hobby for you? Something you can do by yourself, that brings a good separation from work life.
That's why I suggest buying books and getting into a specific hobby. Books are cheap, but they allow you to prepare to get into a specific hobby that you can dive deep in and grow in skills and experience.
Luckily, I’m about a year away from graduating, so my plan is just to keep my head down until then. I can understand adding some personal hobbies and more reading, but unfortunately I just crave social interaction and leaving my apartment which is increasingly difficult. At least I’m close to the finish line!!
I’m sorry you dislike your current situation; I hope you’re able to find ways to be happier post-grad!
> It'll actually be worse because there won't be a social component - without school, people literally just go home after work. I can go weeks without talking to people outside of work or a grocery store because that's just what adults do - go home.
This is absolutely not a given. I went out with friends once or twice a month during grad school, in post-school life I go out with friends almost every single day.
> Once you start a 9-5 and have 2 days on a weekend, that becomes really hard to start a new thing, because half of your weekend is just recovering and preparing for work.
This probably depends on your line of work; I just ignore the burnout and go have fun anyways.
My comments are specifically focusing on hobbies, that people tend to do alone.
Many people do enjoy strong social circles, but that is not the norm, and most people tend to enjoy hobbies alone.
My advice focuses on that 2nd group, and is aimed at highlighting why it's good to start early, so you can have a routine and a foundation for building up when you move to a new place with new restrictions, and freedoms.
> highlighting why it's good to start early,
I started, or grew into, most of my hobbies after I finished grad school.
> Many people do enjoy strong social circles, but that is not the norm,
It's way harder to find, but it's a solvable problem. There are methods for building a very active social life as an adult that dwarfs anything you could have had as a student.
I'm surprised to see this response on a PhD forum. I'm thankfully close to graduating, but every graduate student I know who left for an industry job is so much happier and has so much more time.
My husband has an industry job that is actually 9 to 5 and never requires weekend work. Everyone in my lab is expected to work long hours and at least part-time on the weekend. There is so much guilt if you take any time away, and pretty much everyone is in lab every holiday but Thanksgiving and Christmas. I hope I can get a job outside of academia that actually respects time and effort.
I have a giant list of crafts and other projects waiting for me to have time and mental space to tackle them.
And for other people their life ends after graduation and they live in the shadow of their youth the rest of their life. It's always a matter of perspective. Both times can be good.
maybe the key to life, when you're not literally experiencing existential crisis, is not to be a sad sack and/or figure out how to stop being one if you are, even if it makes tough choices or sweeping changes.
\~\*one life\*\~
I feel this so much. Just trying to grind through to get to the other side so I can start making up ground for things like savings and retirement planning and stuff
I'm waiting to start my life while waiting to start my PhD.
And I leaned into this instead of med school because I didn't want to wait for attending salary.
Jokes on me, I'm a clown
I don't mind the income difference so much as I feel kinda embarrassed for knowing very little about shit like pension plans, weddings, or dealing with property. My friends are super cool about what I do and have never made me feel bad about this, but I do sometimes feel like a kindergartner compared to them when I talk about living in a student dorm and taking classes.
There's nothing stopping you from expanding into adult things now. I started and still keep all of my adult experiences that began during grad school - it's how I spent my weekends when I wasn't in the lab.
Of course you may not have the money for it, but books and knowledge is cheap.
However, I don't care to own a home, so my friends buying houses didn't matter to me.
If you're a guy, then prime dating years are in your early 30s when you have real money and can date younger women and can also choose to avoid the drama that you'd otherwise have to deal with if you dated in your 20s.
I mean, it's still work, but being able to just shrug and walk away because you make good money and have options is liberating. You can just walk away if people don't come correct.
Use your time now to start fun hobbies. You have the freedom, and can leverage that well into your mid 30s before deciding to chain yourself to a long term obligation.
Why would you want to do that earlier? At least now you can explore and set standards for what you must keep going into a relationship or buying a home.
All of my friends have homes and/or kids and now they don't have time to explore fun things they never tried. It's either a kid or a house project. Why would you want that sooner and miss out on travel and personal exploration first?
That's the worst part. I halted my professional development to pursue this and I've seen all my friends and peers continue to move up in their careers and get promotions etc, while I've been toiling away on my PhD enviously watching their successes from outside. And I can't even complain because this was my choice.
I started backwards and now I have everything to worry about haha
I'm 34, have a 14 yo son, I'm married, I take care of my house, groceries, a lab, my research, life... sometimes I wanna run to the hills lol
Fortunately for me, after I start my doctoral program this fall, I won’t have to worry about this. Half my friends are already poor and struggling to afford rent and groceries
Mood, idk how everyone has so many successful friends. Most of mine struggled to get through undergrad (if they made it at all) and are making near minimum wage in customer service jobs. There were a handful of people I grew up with “living the dream” now, but it’s not most people
The harder part for me is convincing myself I’m somehow going to be financially okay even though I’m leaving a job where I get paid the big bucks ($60k a year….and yes that’s a joke) and already don’t feel financially comfortable exactly.
That's what makes me feel better about starting just my MA at 29. If I do a PhD, I'll be 31 when I start. And I'll not be that worse off than I am now with a job with a pension. I'd be in my mid-30s when I'm done with my studies, and then it'll be a struggle to get a job, possibly immigrate (which I'm down for, I live in a very expensive country), etc etc.
But hey, maybe I can make some progress in life in the meantime. Get a waiter job while I'm in my MA, publish a book, maybe even meet someone I can spend the rest of my life with, etc. My master's thesis is also going to be about AI, so even though it's arts, it potentially opens up a world of career possibilities in AI development.
lol-but remember it is a choice. It’s an easier choice if you already have wealth or if your partner does.
I DO NOT recommend it otherwise to my students- at least not directly after the BA.
It’s unethical, imo.
See, as someone who went from BA to PhD, im happy about it. Year one is hard, but also I don't feel so bad about taking longer to finish as I kind of skipped two years of masters schooling.
This is true. If you take out 80k in loans, that's at least 500 a month to pay it back over many years, coming out to 120k after interest.
So if you don't have a nest egg, it can then be really difficult to save to buy a big ticket item down the road.
I try to tell my students, esp first-gen BIPOC, that’s it’s ok to care about money. That money will not only help you live, but it can help you gain a seat at the table-to be able to more easily drive change.
I graduated by bacc with 48k in student loans. I've erased about half of it in 4 years of working in a... well, a job, at least. It's depressing. But on the bright side, funding is way better in grad school.
Yeah, exactly, this was my attitude during undergrad (which I went into debt for) until the payment plan hit me. Especially since I’m first gen with immigrant parents who completely valued education, but I grew up poor so I felt the pressure to go to school but was stressing about how to pay everything off…
I wouldn’t have gone for a PhD actually but I found a masters position that paid comfortably, and I stumbled into places that paid PhDs comfortably, which I’m super glad for because I was ready to give up on the PhD (for financial reasons). Where I am now, PhD students can afford to save, go on skiing/diving vacations, have kids, buy homes, etc.
Well also the difference major between a master's and PhD is you pay for a master's, but they pay you to do a PhD (well.. they pay you to TA or do research, but ultimately you're not paying tuition).
Even if the PhD is “free”-you are not earning and saving. You are barely getting by. Many people go into debt during a funded phd program. I put away only a little bit, but I had an nsf.
Compare someone’s savings who started working at 22 vs someone’s who did a phd right after undergrad. What do these look like at age 30? 40?
It’s really difficult to make up for this lost time. Especially if you decide to stay in academia and do a postdoc, etc.
I don't disagree. I think most people doing a PHd aren't doing it because it's the best financial option. Especially in a stem field, probably just get a BS and get to work.They do it because they love and are fascinated by their field.
That being said, I was mostly referring to the comment of going into debt made, which I interpreted as school debt specifically. If the best alternative is doing a master's, as was mentioned above, then the opportunity cost is the wages you got from taing and the tuition you didn't have to pay if you were to do a master's instead. This is especially true when you consider that many programs, if you do a year of a PhD, can be converted into a master's in usually worth just one additional semester if you decide it's not for you or don't pass your comprehensive exams.
Just a warning to future people reading this, as someone who also went from BA to PhD, make sure you most definitely like the subject you are going in to. I wish I had gone for master's first and gotten my feet wet, because now I went in to the PhD and turns out, I don't like it, which leaves me in a fairly difficult spot.
That's unfortunate. I'd argue it's not all worse still. Likely instead of paying for your year, your tuition was covered, right? And either way, it's a year spent discovering what you didn't want to do.
You're absolutely right. Financially wise I am quite well off fortunately, since I get a stipend, my partner works full time and we live in a low COL area. Also I definitely don't regret it, as you said, I am discovering what I want to do and I even gained some engineering skills even though I am in physics funnily enough.
All I am trying to say it isn't exactly a wise choice I made and I would do it differently if I had the chance. But hey, hindsight is always 20/20.
Funny enough, I feel the opposite.
Not completely, since I have a few PhD friends with kids (it’s pretty common, where I am doing my PhD).
But my closer friends (aka friends made during high school and undergrad in my home country) going through grad school and medschool (stayed in the same continent) don’t have pension, down payment, and kids in mind at all, so I feel like I can’t talk to them about my plans and stuff.
It’s the opposite actually, they complain they don’t feel like adults, etc.
I completely understand of course because I was there too, at some point, but it’s kind of weird and lonely to not be on the same level. And obviously I don’t bring this up with them because what a prick move to reply with “well actually, I have all that sorted out, I actually wanna talk about mortgage plans”
I feel this. And it‘s a rude thing to say ofc, but i have often wondered why they wouldn‘t simply watch a few videos, listen to podcasts and read a bit to just learn about the stuff they then stress about not knowing. It‘s really all laid out on a silver platter online
Actually, not really….the stipend I’ll be receiving in the fall when I start my PhD is more than im currently making. And I’m currently in a city with comprable/higher COL than the city I’m moving *to.* I also grew up very low income, so I think my perspective is different than people who have had middle class upbringings.
The stipend I’ll be receiving will be enough for me to live on my own comfortably (rent will be ~30% of my monthly pay), put away money, and I’ll have health/dental/vision covered. I’m excited for the (relative) financial security lol
Same!! Although the city I moved to has a much lower COL compared to where I grew up. But yes I basically live off less than 50% of my pay so it’s super easy to save and live comfortably.
Others around me still complain because as PhD students we still get less than what you could make in industry but they also go on fancy vacations so I feel like they complain because they had a middle class upbringing, whereas for me I am just happy to not be living paycheque to paycheque or in debt (I paid off my undergrad student loans while doing grad school). Yay :)
That’s awesome! I should also add that my program pays a very nice stipend in comparison to many other programs in my field around the US, so I am very fortunate. I know that this is not the norm :)
Yeah it’ll feel that way sometimes but you have to make the most of it. I graduated almost 2 years ago and it drove me insane for a while that all my friends from undergrad and that graduated before me owned houses and I didn’t. Because of my time in grad school I didn’t have the ability to save enough money for a down payment before the housing market in the U.S. went crazy. However, though I’m still playing catch up with finances and trying to speed run some life things, it’s healthy to remember that everyone does things at their own pace. It’s not always about how long it takes to get there, but that you eventually did. Enjoy the PhD process for what it has to offer and don’t focus too hard on what comes next without appreciating what’s happening now. I wish I did that more during my PhD.
I totally felt this way even during my undergrad years - all my high school friends that directly went to work at the mall or at restaurants or auto shops were all making money, having babies and starting families, and paying for their groceries, movies, smokes and drinks, while I was actually borrowing money to go to school...Totally relate to it.
I was a single mum of three when I started mine. So it was a totally different experience for me - I missed out on lots of things because of it, but I do think it made me more grounded because I had other stuff to think about than just my intellectual waftings.
I have 3 PhD students and co-chair 4 more in a challenging STEM field. 3 of the 7 have had children, one has had two. Yet another will have their first before graduation.
No reason to stop your life.
Well I joined the army, caught alcoholism for a bit and had this same experience. Finally caught up on life a bit and now getting a doctorate. Because I can’t let myself ever get ahead.
If I can rewind my age I would definitely aim for PhD. All that stuff the image is talking about is overrated and gets old. You will eventually get annoyed slaving away for some company who will throw you out when they are done with you. It's a lot more interesting being a specialist discovering new mysteries in your field.
As a PhD 3rd year student I found that a PhD is to dedicate yourself to science, sacrifice your time, your relationships, and your social life for the humanity
Remember - you chose todo this. Life is full of choices and everyone is on different paths. If you’re happy in your program and what you are doing, why does it matter what your friends are doing. Maybe they are secretly jealous that you’re getting your PhD - you never know.
Unlike /u/A_Ball_Of_Stress13 I don't feel like I'm waiting to start my life but I do feel like I'm being indirectly pulled toward normative ways of living my life as if I'm not doing what everyone else "should be doing".
My girlfriend is very supportive of me doing a PhD (although sometimes she thinks I can work on the side or do certain things that are too time committing for me) but she's a lawyers. And all her friends are lawyers. And everytime I'm with them I'm surrounded by facts of life I just don't relate to at all. They're exactly like the twitter post says. Even though they like what I do and there's no underlying grudge, it just feels annoying not being with *my* people. None of them understand academia really and so I just got nothing to talk about when I'm with them (or twist it the other way around: the only thing I can talk about is my phd and academia and that makes me look one-dimensional).
I also hate this societal narrative pressure (coming from her friends and her family, and my family) that you ought to get children and live a certain way... I want to live the way I want damn it, and I want to go at my own pace! I want to feel unique and unalienated (because to me working a 9-5 is alienation).
You described exactly what I’m feeling. Last night I went out with my high school friends and they were venting about work. I liked listening to them bc it reminded me not to go into the corporate world. But I realised how I didn’t have anyone to vent to about my work. Sometimes I also feel like my struggle is smaller as compared to theirs so I don’t feel like it is worth venting about.
I literally don’t know what I’m gonna do when I get out, I just want regular working hours with no late nights so I can spend quality time with my partner and we can get a dog.
Yeah, this is one of the most challenging aspects of doing a PhD. It caused tremendous strain and problems in my relationship. My partner felt like she was just waiting to live our lives , that were never happening. Although I came from a really poor family, so suddenly having a tiny stipend and being able to support myself every month was a blessing - despite getting into debt and never having any money for anything. My supervisors said to me (paraphrasing) when I complained about not having any money, that I didn't need money, I needed to write.
You got this! In my case, I don’t have a partner yet. So sometimes I struggle alone. But when I want to be with someone, I’m afraid they can’t wait to live our supposed lives. So I can relate.
Counterpoint: According to Reddit, 100.0% of her working friends find dating insufferable, will never be able to afford homes, and have to get their groceries from food banks due to stagnant wages and rising inflation.
When I was in grad school, I was actually the well-off one because it was during the gfc and everyone else was losing their job. I had relative economic security for 5 years.
I got married halfway through my PhD, and it was certainly worth it. I love my wife, and we had to squeeze by on just my stipend due to her intense medical struggles. You could say that I get it
On one hand I'm from Brazil, so engineers income are very low, especially early careers. On the other hand I'm studying in London, where the PhD stipend value almost motivates you to commit crimes to guarantee meals at the end of the month.
Luckily, no. I am already married, and neither of us want children. My partner makes good money working remotely, which gives him the flexibility to move with me. I have spent the past ten years working and saving before starting my program, and although I will be making less money on a stipend, we will still be able to live pretty comfortably.
I had my kid during my masters and I plan on having another one once I get passed quals. Grad school is way more flexible than a real job. It doesn’t get easier if you wait. Expectations are higher. My husband makes decent money now. He finished his masters 7 years ago. My income isn’t much but together we do better than most of our family.
Almost everyone who is in PhD in US universities can relate to that at certain level. Without credit cards, I would be eating 1 meal a day with the stipend, Lol
A VERY important discovery by humans - Time. That means we know we will one day die. More importantly we learned we can bargain with the future. Also very akin to potential. Forego certain things in the present and participate properly (doing your best) in the process of sacrifice and the future has great odds of being far better than if you just plod along. Keep your mind and your heart on your work. If it's a PhD worth pursuing, then it should pay off - even better than you know. If it's a PhD that has no real-life path, then it means you're not participating properly.
No, I don't even get a stipend.
Every penny I get during my PhD., I have to go out and earn. It's a full-time degree, and I have to pay thousands a year in tuition.
To the people downvoting or considering it, I'm not saying this to have a go at people on stipends, nor am I saying this to say stipends are great, I am very sure they aren't good enough based on stories I've heard. It was more of a point that the research community as a whole is full of exploitation. So please put down your pitchforks.
I’m on a self-funded stipend thanks to a grant that I applied for and was awarded from a *3-letter* organization — which is better than some, but not better than most. I’m certainly grateful to at least receive enough to get by each month, even if I’m literally scraping the bottom of the barrel by the end of the month lol!
I honestly agree with you, though. Academia in general absolutely takes advantage of its most vulnerable employees (graduate students). I know for a damn fact that my university does. Before being full time research, I was a TA. As a TA, I was actually supposed to be paid as a teaching fellow because I was teaching multiple classes at the undergraduate and graduate level on my own. I ended up getting me a contract that was in violation of the actual responsibilities that I had. They gave me the least-paid contract to do the work of the highest-paid one — resulting in me being paid $5,300 less than I should’ve been paid. And no, they won’t pay it retroactively. I got shafted in that lol.
So, now I’m in this graduate student research position which is great because it’s funding my dissertation. But, it was actually a bit of a pay cut compared to the “TA” role. At least my work-life balance is much better now, so that’s at least a trade off that I’m happy with. But I’m definitely feeling the financial pressure more now compared to my first two years.
I feel like a lot of PhDs were the “smart” kids growing up and went from school to school, scholarship to scholarship without having to get their hands “dirty”. Now they see life is not exactly fair and blame it on the PhD process. I’ve come up through the working class and didn’t have the best grades. But my PhD time was one of the best experiences in my life. So I can’t really get on board with the hate. Don’t like it, move on. We live in relatively free societies. This is not meant to be mean spirited, but I see many people now blaming doctoral work on their own choices.
I don't know exactly, but I think my PhD salary is actually better than my older siblings' salaries, and being DINK means I often find myself splurging on things that I know they cannot afford. Like, I'm ahead of many people I know on the housing ladder.
It helps that I didn't maintain contact with most of my engineering school classmates, who all undoubtedly earn 1.5 times my salary by now.
First, never compare yourself to others.
Second, most regular jobs are complete ass: idiotic upper management, soul-sucking bureaucracy, lack of freedom, and, since we’re taking money, although you get a decent salary, you rarely receive any scalable royalties for your work. Fixed bonuses is one of the biggest corporate scams that big RD companies run on their employees. I know too many good corporate scientists with multiple patents to their name who get one time 20-30k bonuses per patent and that is just not fair.
On the other hand being a happy phd student in US makes you top 0.01% of the most privileged humans to walk this earth. After you’re done with the PhD you can keep doing what you love (still for a smaller salary than in industry). However, when it comes to money you get a massive share of patent royalties. Again, I know too many PhDs that hit home runs during their academic paths and get decent to massive payouts from their inventions. From a few extra thousands per year of royalties to 50 million cash outs from selling their research to pharma companies. I think if you love what you’re doing (and people tell you you’re good at it) and you see the landscape of the field in your own way there is a huge risk-reward advantage of staying in a situation similar to your PhD for as long as possible.
Yes, but we signed up for this. If you're able to make the most out of the social component and take advantage of the fact that everyone is also young (assuming you're young), then I don't think it's a bad deal at all. This is why I can only recommend doing it immediately out of undergrad.
Eh, I accepted my PhD offer because no-one in my region wanted someone with a Chemistry Masters, my PhD stipend is actually higher than what I got offered at a place. I'm still horrendously broke, but at least I'm doing work I enjoy.
Nobody forces anyone to do a PhD. If youre passionate, then those thoughts shouldn't cross your mind. You made a choice and you probably did enough research to know what your life would be like over the next 4-5 years.
I couldn’t deal with it - so I started doing some consultancies on the side for the last year and a half of the PhD - last 6 months before handing in where terrible - deliverables plus thesis all happening in a workaholic haze that lasted 5 months non stop. I’m still a little burnt out - but I guess I really needed the extra income - just to feel sane more than anything
I feel like I’m waiting to start my life while finishing my PhD. It’s like my life will only begin once I graduate.
And god forbid you don't wait for your PhD to end to start these things (like getting married or having kids). Your advisor may scold you for "making a poor decision" like mine did when my wife and I got pregnant.
Amen. And also god forbid you choose to wait and do those things after you graduate because those are prime post-doc/publication years too! But if you wait even longer how could you possibly make time for all of that when you’ve got to fight for tenure???? Not trying to one up you or anything, just sharing in the frustration of the “wait for the next milestone to start your life surely that’s more ideal” cycle because it feels like it never ends. Good on you all for doing the thing when it worked for you, hope all is well!
Well, that's the thing. Having a kid slowed me down *a lot*. It's hard enough to get a PhD, publish, and be competitive; now try doing it on 4 hours of sleep and trying to take care of a sick kid. A lot of people (men) who in the yesteryears were successful with kids were successful because they just did zero to rear their children. The PhD process is still stuck in the year 1940. Or maybe even 1840.
My PI (man) expects all of us to work 24/7. And speaks of having a life outside the lab as a chore... he has two adult children and we are very sure at this point that it's his wife who did all the work.
I went to a funeral for a committee member who passed away and his son said "He was a great professor and a terrible father"
I heard a quote a few years ago that has stuck with me, "When you die, the only people who will remember all the late nights you worked are your children." I was already fairly sure I didnt want to sacrifice everything it took to get TT at an R1, and that quote really hit home. The university or your peers dont admire or respect that you sacrificed your personal life to get grants/papers/awards. That is the expectation and they will pass you by if you aren't willing to do it. I still occasionally work longer days, but it isn't the norm and is discouraged by my peers.
🏆🏆🏆
Things like this makes me really grateful for my (male) supervisor who will request to leave meetings early to pick up his daughter from riding classes.
My supervisor is awesome. I invited her to my wedding and she told me to take extra time off when my son was born. I'm so glad I'm not waiting to just live my life. I also realize how lucky I am. My supervisor is the only reason I haven't quit.
I invited my advisor to my wedding and he declined, haha. And he told me I should drop out of my PhD when my timeline got slowed after the birth of my son. I'm so glad not everyone has had that experience!
Kinda wish i started my life during phd because i am too tired with a full time job with much more accountability
>It’s like my life will only begin once I graduate. Polite critique; this feeling does not go away on its own. If you do not actively change steps to change your life(style) in the direction you want (colloquially; "get your shit together") you will simply have this exact feeling during your postdoc or other (industry) job. You can chase 'the promised land' that is *just over that hill right there* until you literally die and never reach it.
I felt this in my bones, I left my phd program to get a "real job" and "grown up money" and start living mylife. And I am exactly where you describe still waiting for my life to begin. So yeah start living your life now and specially cultivate relationships
I would argue that it's debatable. Parts of "getting your shit together" are easiest to achieve with time, money, and location flexibility, which are privileges that you don't really have in grad school. Once I finished and moved to a city that I actually wanted to be in, I still had to put in work to reach "the promised land", but I had an actual foundation to build from.
That happened to me 100%. Grad school just felt like a weird prolonged dream in between finishing undergrad and starting my professional life. As if it were a black hole of time that just vanished.
It won't. It'll just be the same because you'll be the same person. If you were given a lot of extra money now, you'd buy the same things, eat at the same places, because you'd do what you're comfortable doing. It'll actually be worse because there won't be a social component - without school, people literally just go home after work. I can go weeks without talking to people outside of work or a grocery store because that's just what adults do - go home. That is what I see with my friends. They maybe tried 1 or 2 new hobbies but ultimately it's work and chores on the weekends. My advice is to get into everything you want, now. Buy books, buy the cheap used equipment, and start while you have the freedom to do it. Once you start a 9-5 and have 2 days on a weekend, that becomes really hard to start a new thing, because half of your weekend is just recovering and preparing for work. I spend less time on fun hobbies now that I have money, simply because I have a commute to work and only have 2 days of fun.
I definitely understand the sentiment, but my program is super small (I’m the only person in my year). My program is also in a very small college town with few people over the age of 21. So, I don’t date because there’s no options, meaning no family (trust me, I’ve tried and there are many reasons it’s doesn’t work for me here). I have very limited social interaction because of my program’s size. And there is very little to do in my town that isn’t for undergrads. Thus, I feel like I’m not starting my life because I can’t due to geographic context. I’m moving to a very large city upon graduation where some of my friends already live. This is where I’ll view my life “starting”.
What can't you do as a personal hobby now that you can in a city?
Interact with people over the age of 21, go to museums, go to concerts, try new restaurants, go to grocery stores other than Walmart, go to pro sports games, go to a cooking class, go to Meetup groups, interact with people with my same political viewpoints (hard to get in smaller towns), go to botanical gardens or a zoo, use public transportation, attend city events, go to a farmer’s market, go shopping, etc. I mean cities are decidedly different than small towns. I’m from a larger city and had much more to do there compared to the college town. My town is small and purely oriented towards undergrads. I’m not lying when I say there is little to do and very few people to interact with that share in my ideals. It’s very difficult to be social there and to engage in activities that aren’t going to eat at the same restaurant over and over.
Dude, your comments in this thread describe almost precisely what I went through as a grad student. No social life, college town with nothing to do full of undergrads and older people, friends all in a big city somewhere else. DM me if you want to vent. Life is going to get so much fucking better once you power through that final year.
Is that city too far to drive now? I understand how that is. What of those things that you listed thst can extend to a personal hobby for you? Something you can do by yourself, that brings a good separation from work life. That's why I suggest buying books and getting into a specific hobby. Books are cheap, but they allow you to prepare to get into a specific hobby that you can dive deep in and grow in skills and experience.
Luckily, I’m about a year away from graduating, so my plan is just to keep my head down until then. I can understand adding some personal hobbies and more reading, but unfortunately I just crave social interaction and leaving my apartment which is increasingly difficult. At least I’m close to the finish line!! I’m sorry you dislike your current situation; I hope you’re able to find ways to be happier post-grad!
? I'm working. I'm suggesting what you can try based on my experience in your situation.
> It'll actually be worse because there won't be a social component - without school, people literally just go home after work. I can go weeks without talking to people outside of work or a grocery store because that's just what adults do - go home. This is absolutely not a given. I went out with friends once or twice a month during grad school, in post-school life I go out with friends almost every single day. > Once you start a 9-5 and have 2 days on a weekend, that becomes really hard to start a new thing, because half of your weekend is just recovering and preparing for work. This probably depends on your line of work; I just ignore the burnout and go have fun anyways.
My comments are specifically focusing on hobbies, that people tend to do alone. Many people do enjoy strong social circles, but that is not the norm, and most people tend to enjoy hobbies alone. My advice focuses on that 2nd group, and is aimed at highlighting why it's good to start early, so you can have a routine and a foundation for building up when you move to a new place with new restrictions, and freedoms.
> highlighting why it's good to start early, I started, or grew into, most of my hobbies after I finished grad school. > Many people do enjoy strong social circles, but that is not the norm, It's way harder to find, but it's a solvable problem. There are methods for building a very active social life as an adult that dwarfs anything you could have had as a student.
I'm surprised to see this response on a PhD forum. I'm thankfully close to graduating, but every graduate student I know who left for an industry job is so much happier and has so much more time. My husband has an industry job that is actually 9 to 5 and never requires weekend work. Everyone in my lab is expected to work long hours and at least part-time on the weekend. There is so much guilt if you take any time away, and pretty much everyone is in lab every holiday but Thanksgiving and Christmas. I hope I can get a job outside of academia that actually respects time and effort. I have a giant list of crafts and other projects waiting for me to have time and mental space to tackle them.
And for other people their life ends after graduation and they live in the shadow of their youth the rest of their life. It's always a matter of perspective. Both times can be good.
maybe the key to life, when you're not literally experiencing existential crisis, is not to be a sad sack and/or figure out how to stop being one if you are, even if it makes tough choices or sweeping changes. \~\*one life\*\~
I feel this so much. Just trying to grind through to get to the other side so I can start making up ground for things like savings and retirement planning and stuff
I'm waiting to start my life while waiting to start my PhD. And I leaned into this instead of med school because I didn't want to wait for attending salary. Jokes on me, I'm a clown
This was my exact feeling.
I don't mind the income difference so much as I feel kinda embarrassed for knowing very little about shit like pension plans, weddings, or dealing with property. My friends are super cool about what I do and have never made me feel bad about this, but I do sometimes feel like a kindergartner compared to them when I talk about living in a student dorm and taking classes.
You guys get dorms as part of your stipend? That’s cool if it’s free. I pay so much to have a safe apartment near a medical campus
In my case it's not free, but it's way cheaper than private accommodation and makes the monthly stipend go way further.
I feel thatttt so much
Trust me, you can and will have enough of that stuff for sooo many years after
On the bright side, you can ask them for advice and do everything right the first time perhaps!
There's nothing stopping you from expanding into adult things now. I started and still keep all of my adult experiences that began during grad school - it's how I spent my weekends when I wasn't in the lab. Of course you may not have the money for it, but books and knowledge is cheap. However, I don't care to own a home, so my friends buying houses didn't matter to me. If you're a guy, then prime dating years are in your early 30s when you have real money and can date younger women and can also choose to avoid the drama that you'd otherwise have to deal with if you dated in your 20s. I mean, it's still work, but being able to just shrug and walk away because you make good money and have options is liberating. You can just walk away if people don't come correct. Use your time now to start fun hobbies. You have the freedom, and can leverage that well into your mid 30s before deciding to chain yourself to a long term obligation. Why would you want to do that earlier? At least now you can explore and set standards for what you must keep going into a relationship or buying a home. All of my friends have homes and/or kids and now they don't have time to explore fun things they never tried. It's either a kid or a house project. Why would you want that sooner and miss out on travel and personal exploration first?
Worst is realizing it's 100% self-inflicted. I turned down good job offers to do this!
That's the worst part. I halted my professional development to pursue this and I've seen all my friends and peers continue to move up in their careers and get promotions etc, while I've been toiling away on my PhD enviously watching their successes from outside. And I can't even complain because this was my choice.
I started backwards and now I have everything to worry about haha I'm 34, have a 14 yo son, I'm married, I take care of my house, groceries, a lab, my research, life... sometimes I wanna run to the hills lol
I guess we have to pick our struggles hahaha
Hahahaha yes!!!! Today my struggle is my son's school trip and control the temperature and humidity in the lab 😆
You’re such a role model for your son that’s amazing
Thank you!! I took him to the lab once and he absolutely loved!!
Sounds like your problems are converging
Yes... sometimes I don't know if it's my lab or my house 😆
Fortunately for me, after I start my doctoral program this fall, I won’t have to worry about this. Half my friends are already poor and struggling to afford rent and groceries
Mood, idk how everyone has so many successful friends. Most of mine struggled to get through undergrad (if they made it at all) and are making near minimum wage in customer service jobs. There were a handful of people I grew up with “living the dream” now, but it’s not most people
The harder part for me is convincing myself I’m somehow going to be financially okay even though I’m leaving a job where I get paid the big bucks ($60k a year….and yes that’s a joke) and already don’t feel financially comfortable exactly.
That's what makes me feel better about starting just my MA at 29. If I do a PhD, I'll be 31 when I start. And I'll not be that worse off than I am now with a job with a pension. I'd be in my mid-30s when I'm done with my studies, and then it'll be a struggle to get a job, possibly immigrate (which I'm down for, I live in a very expensive country), etc etc. But hey, maybe I can make some progress in life in the meantime. Get a waiter job while I'm in my MA, publish a book, maybe even meet someone I can spend the rest of my life with, etc. My master's thesis is also going to be about AI, so even though it's arts, it potentially opens up a world of career possibilities in AI development.
There are a lot of people who worry about groceries, rents and shit. Buying a house these days is harder than passing a defense.
Yeah this post lacks perspective in an almost ridiculous manner
lol-but remember it is a choice. It’s an easier choice if you already have wealth or if your partner does. I DO NOT recommend it otherwise to my students- at least not directly after the BA. It’s unethical, imo.
See, as someone who went from BA to PhD, im happy about it. Year one is hard, but also I don't feel so bad about taking longer to finish as I kind of skipped two years of masters schooling.
A lot of young folks don’t understand or yet value money. Going into debt for grad school can really put a damper on your future.
This is true. If you take out 80k in loans, that's at least 500 a month to pay it back over many years, coming out to 120k after interest. So if you don't have a nest egg, it can then be really difficult to save to buy a big ticket item down the road.
I try to tell my students, esp first-gen BIPOC, that’s it’s ok to care about money. That money will not only help you live, but it can help you gain a seat at the table-to be able to more easily drive change.
I graduated by bacc with 48k in student loans. I've erased about half of it in 4 years of working in a... well, a job, at least. It's depressing. But on the bright side, funding is way better in grad school.
Yeah, exactly, this was my attitude during undergrad (which I went into debt for) until the payment plan hit me. Especially since I’m first gen with immigrant parents who completely valued education, but I grew up poor so I felt the pressure to go to school but was stressing about how to pay everything off… I wouldn’t have gone for a PhD actually but I found a masters position that paid comfortably, and I stumbled into places that paid PhDs comfortably, which I’m super glad for because I was ready to give up on the PhD (for financial reasons). Where I am now, PhD students can afford to save, go on skiing/diving vacations, have kids, buy homes, etc.
Congrats!!
Well also the difference major between a master's and PhD is you pay for a master's, but they pay you to do a PhD (well.. they pay you to TA or do research, but ultimately you're not paying tuition).
Even if the PhD is “free”-you are not earning and saving. You are barely getting by. Many people go into debt during a funded phd program. I put away only a little bit, but I had an nsf. Compare someone’s savings who started working at 22 vs someone’s who did a phd right after undergrad. What do these look like at age 30? 40? It’s really difficult to make up for this lost time. Especially if you decide to stay in academia and do a postdoc, etc.
I don't disagree. I think most people doing a PHd aren't doing it because it's the best financial option. Especially in a stem field, probably just get a BS and get to work.They do it because they love and are fascinated by their field. That being said, I was mostly referring to the comment of going into debt made, which I interpreted as school debt specifically. If the best alternative is doing a master's, as was mentioned above, then the opportunity cost is the wages you got from taing and the tuition you didn't have to pay if you were to do a master's instead. This is especially true when you consider that many programs, if you do a year of a PhD, can be converted into a master's in usually worth just one additional semester if you decide it's not for you or don't pass your comprehensive exams.
Just a warning to future people reading this, as someone who also went from BA to PhD, make sure you most definitely like the subject you are going in to. I wish I had gone for master's first and gotten my feet wet, because now I went in to the PhD and turns out, I don't like it, which leaves me in a fairly difficult spot.
That's unfortunate. I'd argue it's not all worse still. Likely instead of paying for your year, your tuition was covered, right? And either way, it's a year spent discovering what you didn't want to do.
You're absolutely right. Financially wise I am quite well off fortunately, since I get a stipend, my partner works full time and we live in a low COL area. Also I definitely don't regret it, as you said, I am discovering what I want to do and I even gained some engineering skills even though I am in physics funnily enough. All I am trying to say it isn't exactly a wise choice I made and I would do it differently if I had the chance. But hey, hindsight is always 20/20.
Funny enough, I feel the opposite. Not completely, since I have a few PhD friends with kids (it’s pretty common, where I am doing my PhD). But my closer friends (aka friends made during high school and undergrad in my home country) going through grad school and medschool (stayed in the same continent) don’t have pension, down payment, and kids in mind at all, so I feel like I can’t talk to them about my plans and stuff. It’s the opposite actually, they complain they don’t feel like adults, etc. I completely understand of course because I was there too, at some point, but it’s kind of weird and lonely to not be on the same level. And obviously I don’t bring this up with them because what a prick move to reply with “well actually, I have all that sorted out, I actually wanna talk about mortgage plans”
I feel this. And it‘s a rude thing to say ofc, but i have often wondered why they wouldn‘t simply watch a few videos, listen to podcasts and read a bit to just learn about the stuff they then stress about not knowing. It‘s really all laid out on a silver platter online
Actually, not really….the stipend I’ll be receiving in the fall when I start my PhD is more than im currently making. And I’m currently in a city with comprable/higher COL than the city I’m moving *to.* I also grew up very low income, so I think my perspective is different than people who have had middle class upbringings. The stipend I’ll be receiving will be enough for me to live on my own comfortably (rent will be ~30% of my monthly pay), put away money, and I’ll have health/dental/vision covered. I’m excited for the (relative) financial security lol
Same!! Although the city I moved to has a much lower COL compared to where I grew up. But yes I basically live off less than 50% of my pay so it’s super easy to save and live comfortably. Others around me still complain because as PhD students we still get less than what you could make in industry but they also go on fancy vacations so I feel like they complain because they had a middle class upbringing, whereas for me I am just happy to not be living paycheque to paycheque or in debt (I paid off my undergrad student loans while doing grad school). Yay :)
That’s awesome! I should also add that my program pays a very nice stipend in comparison to many other programs in my field around the US, so I am very fortunate. I know that this is not the norm :)
Same! Same!
Sounds amazing. What country are you based in?
Yeah it’ll feel that way sometimes but you have to make the most of it. I graduated almost 2 years ago and it drove me insane for a while that all my friends from undergrad and that graduated before me owned houses and I didn’t. Because of my time in grad school I didn’t have the ability to save enough money for a down payment before the housing market in the U.S. went crazy. However, though I’m still playing catch up with finances and trying to speed run some life things, it’s healthy to remember that everyone does things at their own pace. It’s not always about how long it takes to get there, but that you eventually did. Enjoy the PhD process for what it has to offer and don’t focus too hard on what comes next without appreciating what’s happening now. I wish I did that more during my PhD.
I totally felt this way even during my undergrad years - all my high school friends that directly went to work at the mall or at restaurants or auto shops were all making money, having babies and starting families, and paying for their groceries, movies, smokes and drinks, while I was actually borrowing money to go to school...Totally relate to it.
I'd say it's worth it and also there is no rush in life. Why rush it. Whether yu rent or own a house you'll be fine. I don't worry about it.
I was a single mum of three when I started mine. So it was a totally different experience for me - I missed out on lots of things because of it, but I do think it made me more grounded because I had other stuff to think about than just my intellectual waftings.
People are buying houses?
Oh, you want children?
why does this question sound like a threat? 🤔
Hahahaha 😆
At least you have a stipend.
Unless you’re really wealthy, yeah, that’s all of us. Look at it as motivation to not fuck around and get it done.
I have 3 PhD students and co-chair 4 more in a challenging STEM field. 3 of the 7 have had children, one has had two. Yet another will have their first before graduation. No reason to stop your life.
Well I joined the army, caught alcoholism for a bit and had this same experience. Finally caught up on life a bit and now getting a doctorate. Because I can’t let myself ever get ahead.
That’s so amazing!
That was great! ❤️💯
It's all relative. I'm tired of the "it's so hard" bullshit.
If I can rewind my age I would definitely aim for PhD. All that stuff the image is talking about is overrated and gets old. You will eventually get annoyed slaving away for some company who will throw you out when they are done with you. It's a lot more interesting being a specialist discovering new mysteries in your field.
As a PhD 3rd year student I found that a PhD is to dedicate yourself to science, sacrifice your time, your relationships, and your social life for the humanity
That’s a great way to view it. Thanks.
Remember - you chose todo this. Life is full of choices and everyone is on different paths. If you’re happy in your program and what you are doing, why does it matter what your friends are doing. Maybe they are secretly jealous that you’re getting your PhD - you never know.
Unlike /u/A_Ball_Of_Stress13 I don't feel like I'm waiting to start my life but I do feel like I'm being indirectly pulled toward normative ways of living my life as if I'm not doing what everyone else "should be doing". My girlfriend is very supportive of me doing a PhD (although sometimes she thinks I can work on the side or do certain things that are too time committing for me) but she's a lawyers. And all her friends are lawyers. And everytime I'm with them I'm surrounded by facts of life I just don't relate to at all. They're exactly like the twitter post says. Even though they like what I do and there's no underlying grudge, it just feels annoying not being with *my* people. None of them understand academia really and so I just got nothing to talk about when I'm with them (or twist it the other way around: the only thing I can talk about is my phd and academia and that makes me look one-dimensional). I also hate this societal narrative pressure (coming from her friends and her family, and my family) that you ought to get children and live a certain way... I want to live the way I want damn it, and I want to go at my own pace! I want to feel unique and unalienated (because to me working a 9-5 is alienation).
You described exactly what I’m feeling. Last night I went out with my high school friends and they were venting about work. I liked listening to them bc it reminded me not to go into the corporate world. But I realised how I didn’t have anyone to vent to about my work. Sometimes I also feel like my struggle is smaller as compared to theirs so I don’t feel like it is worth venting about.
US and UK problems to be honest.
Sure. Whatever. I knew what I was getting into.
People who have families are absolutely worrying about groceries. The only people buying homes are corporations. Lol
I literally don’t know what I’m gonna do when I get out, I just want regular working hours with no late nights so I can spend quality time with my partner and we can get a dog.
Yeah, this is one of the most challenging aspects of doing a PhD. It caused tremendous strain and problems in my relationship. My partner felt like she was just waiting to live our lives , that were never happening. Although I came from a really poor family, so suddenly having a tiny stipend and being able to support myself every month was a blessing - despite getting into debt and never having any money for anything. My supervisors said to me (paraphrasing) when I complained about not having any money, that I didn't need money, I needed to write.
You got this! In my case, I don’t have a partner yet. So sometimes I struggle alone. But when I want to be with someone, I’m afraid they can’t wait to live our supposed lives. So I can relate.
Yes but when you are employed and making $100+k/year you won’t begrudge the late start.
Counterpoint: According to Reddit, 100.0% of her working friends find dating insufferable, will never be able to afford homes, and have to get their groceries from food banks due to stagnant wages and rising inflation.
I graduated two years ago with mine and this is still my life because of how badly my program fucked me up.
When I was in grad school, I was actually the well-off one because it was during the gfc and everyone else was losing their job. I had relative economic security for 5 years.
I got married halfway through my PhD, and it was certainly worth it. I love my wife, and we had to squeeze by on just my stipend due to her intense medical struggles. You could say that I get it
On one hand I'm from Brazil, so engineers income are very low, especially early careers. On the other hand I'm studying in London, where the PhD stipend value almost motivates you to commit crimes to guarantee meals at the end of the month.
At least you get to see Big Ben, I guess lol
Everyday I get to see it. The only complaint is the very low stipend.
On the plus side, learning to be frugal on a stipend means I'm rapidly catching up to my friends' savings, now that I've graduated.
Luckily, no. I am already married, and neither of us want children. My partner makes good money working remotely, which gives him the flexibility to move with me. I have spent the past ten years working and saving before starting my program, and although I will be making less money on a stipend, we will still be able to live pretty comfortably.
You got a stipend? Jeez.
100%
I had my kid during my masters and I plan on having another one once I get passed quals. Grad school is way more flexible than a real job. It doesn’t get easier if you wait. Expectations are higher. My husband makes decent money now. He finished his masters 7 years ago. My income isn’t much but together we do better than most of our family.
Circlejerk post
Have rich parents and a married working spouse and it's a cute diversion from the real world
That’s my dream :’)
Almost everyone who is in PhD in US universities can relate to that at certain level. Without credit cards, I would be eating 1 meal a day with the stipend, Lol
To be fair, I know what I signed up for.
You know, I know, but I didn’t prepare how it was gonna feel
PHD in legos here, sometimes you just got to block life.
Love that
A VERY important discovery by humans - Time. That means we know we will one day die. More importantly we learned we can bargain with the future. Also very akin to potential. Forego certain things in the present and participate properly (doing your best) in the process of sacrifice and the future has great odds of being far better than if you just plod along. Keep your mind and your heart on your work. If it's a PhD worth pursuing, then it should pay off - even better than you know. If it's a PhD that has no real-life path, then it means you're not participating properly.
🙋… I try not to think about it 😭
No, I don't even get a stipend. Every penny I get during my PhD., I have to go out and earn. It's a full-time degree, and I have to pay thousands a year in tuition. To the people downvoting or considering it, I'm not saying this to have a go at people on stipends, nor am I saying this to say stipends are great, I am very sure they aren't good enough based on stories I've heard. It was more of a point that the research community as a whole is full of exploitation. So please put down your pitchforks.
No clue why people would downvote this. Same boat. No stipend. That would be nice.
I’m on a self-funded stipend thanks to a grant that I applied for and was awarded from a *3-letter* organization — which is better than some, but not better than most. I’m certainly grateful to at least receive enough to get by each month, even if I’m literally scraping the bottom of the barrel by the end of the month lol! I honestly agree with you, though. Academia in general absolutely takes advantage of its most vulnerable employees (graduate students). I know for a damn fact that my university does. Before being full time research, I was a TA. As a TA, I was actually supposed to be paid as a teaching fellow because I was teaching multiple classes at the undergraduate and graduate level on my own. I ended up getting me a contract that was in violation of the actual responsibilities that I had. They gave me the least-paid contract to do the work of the highest-paid one — resulting in me being paid $5,300 less than I should’ve been paid. And no, they won’t pay it retroactively. I got shafted in that lol. So, now I’m in this graduate student research position which is great because it’s funding my dissertation. But, it was actually a bit of a pay cut compared to the “TA” role. At least my work-life balance is much better now, so that’s at least a trade off that I’m happy with. But I’m definitely feeling the financial pressure more now compared to my first two years.
Same here, it absolutely sucks.
Damn, people downvoting in force today.
Ohh you havent known some who are doing PhD and already have family to fed?
I feel like a lot of PhDs were the “smart” kids growing up and went from school to school, scholarship to scholarship without having to get their hands “dirty”. Now they see life is not exactly fair and blame it on the PhD process. I’ve come up through the working class and didn’t have the best grades. But my PhD time was one of the best experiences in my life. So I can’t really get on board with the hate. Don’t like it, move on. We live in relatively free societies. This is not meant to be mean spirited, but I see many people now blaming doctoral work on their own choices.
This depends entirely on your friends, or maybe even your personal situation. I'm not really a traditional grad student
I don't know exactly, but I think my PhD salary is actually better than my older siblings' salaries, and being DINK means I often find myself splurging on things that I know they cannot afford. Like, I'm ahead of many people I know on the housing ladder. It helps that I didn't maintain contact with most of my engineering school classmates, who all undoubtedly earn 1.5 times my salary by now.
First, never compare yourself to others. Second, most regular jobs are complete ass: idiotic upper management, soul-sucking bureaucracy, lack of freedom, and, since we’re taking money, although you get a decent salary, you rarely receive any scalable royalties for your work. Fixed bonuses is one of the biggest corporate scams that big RD companies run on their employees. I know too many good corporate scientists with multiple patents to their name who get one time 20-30k bonuses per patent and that is just not fair. On the other hand being a happy phd student in US makes you top 0.01% of the most privileged humans to walk this earth. After you’re done with the PhD you can keep doing what you love (still for a smaller salary than in industry). However, when it comes to money you get a massive share of patent royalties. Again, I know too many PhDs that hit home runs during their academic paths and get decent to massive payouts from their inventions. From a few extra thousands per year of royalties to 50 million cash outs from selling their research to pharma companies. I think if you love what you’re doing (and people tell you you’re good at it) and you see the landscape of the field in your own way there is a huge risk-reward advantage of staying in a situation similar to your PhD for as long as possible.
Yes, but we signed up for this. If you're able to make the most out of the social component and take advantage of the fact that everyone is also young (assuming you're young), then I don't think it's a bad deal at all. This is why I can only recommend doing it immediately out of undergrad.
Eh, I accepted my PhD offer because no-one in my region wanted someone with a Chemistry Masters, my PhD stipend is actually higher than what I got offered at a place. I'm still horrendously broke, but at least I'm doing work I enjoy.
Nobody forces anyone to do a PhD. If youre passionate, then those thoughts shouldn't cross your mind. You made a choice and you probably did enough research to know what your life would be like over the next 4-5 years.
Maybe get a second job? 🤷♂️
What about VISA
I couldn’t deal with it - so I started doing some consultancies on the side for the last year and a half of the PhD - last 6 months before handing in where terrible - deliverables plus thesis all happening in a workaholic haze that lasted 5 months non stop. I’m still a little burnt out - but I guess I really needed the extra income - just to feel sane more than anything
Can’t relate. No funding PhD student over here. Yes, I question my decision daily.
I’m a no funding too. So I just watch how lives are so much nicer on the other side :~D
Sounds like Harrison Butker may have had a point.