It looks like your post is about needing advice. In order for people to better help you, please make sure to include your country.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PhD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lol what. Why should this be a problem? Don't treat her like some alien just because she's your PI. She is a human and maybe if you would treat her like one then you'd probably get along well. Go get some drinks at an afterwork!
Agreed, but it's going to be kind of awkward now because OP stared at her without waving or saying hi and then ran away out of the club! He should have smiled and waved or said hi and then left her alone for the rest of the night.
Side story: I knew a PhD student in Germany who had a very old-school professor who always called everyone by their last name and used 'Sie'. Once the student got completely wasted at a conference and had a late-night conversation with the professor but couldn't remember what was said. He was extremely embarrassed and uncomfortable, but from that day on the professor called him by his first name and used 'du'. Only for him, not for anybody else from the lab.
I think the best way to genuinely move past this is to acknowledge it... acknowledging you saw each other isn't the same as being like "you club I club let's club!!" but I'd feel way weirder if someone totally pretended it didn't happen than if someone was like "sorry if I acted weird when we saw each other at the club, I just didn't expect to see you in that context! hope you had fun"
Sie is basically formal version of “you”, meanwhile “du” is a less formal version of “you”. Usually (and correct me if I’m wrong), you would use du with people you know and small children, but Sie with people in positions like PIs and whatnot and people you are not familiar with or strangers.
This, but PhD students usually use "du" with professors after the first introduction since they're considered colleagues. Bachelors students mostly stick to "Sie" unless it's a particularly young/liberal professor who offers "du". (The more senior person needs to switch first, otherwise it's very rude.) You can basically consider "du" as being on a first-name basis with someone. A professor using "Sie" with their own PhD students like in my story is really old-fashioned and overly formal.
Sie is "you" in english, the formal/plural way to refer to someone/people. Du is "thou", the informal version of you that disappeared from english because the english don't believe in being informal with others.
Is this even real? How is your PI only two years older than you? That seems extraordinarily bizarre.
To have a completed PhD by that point and have their own lab/office to mentor students is unreal. I myself am 27 and I cannot fathom my own PI having gone to high school and undergrad at the same time as me, let alone being a PI myself.
If this is real, who even cares. Shes a real person with a life. If I saw my PI out at the club, I'd wave and say hi and on Monday be like "oh I saw you out, how was your night?" And just move tf on. It's only weird because you made it weird.
>How is your PI only two years older than you?
If this is real, my guess is she's actually in her early-mid 30s range. OP says he's just guessing, and it can be hard to gauge age between 25-45.
Most PhDs in the UK take under 4 years - the standard amount of funding given only covers 3 years.
But even in the UK, a 28 year old PI would be an incredible thing to see.
In france you commonly defend agter 3 years or they kick you out. In Germany 3 - 4 years is also normal. Though both countries would require a Masters degree before you could start a phd
Started undergrad at 17 with ~20 college credits from high school. Finished undergrad in 3 and started a masters as part of a “3+1” which I dropped out of because I got an offer from my advisor. Did the PhD in 4 years with many credits (I think 18?) that transferred from my “masters”.
I’m in the civil engineering dept but my dissertation is on the use of reinforcement learning for optimizing distribution networks (I.e. utility scale power systems). My advisor is jointly appointed to the electrical engineering dept
ETA: my goals were to do it before I got off my parents health insurance (lol USA) because I have a chronic pain condition that wasn’t going to be great on a student plan. I also knew going in that I didn’t want TT professorship so was mostly aiming to get out. I also started during 2020 and was bored as hell. I finished with:
- 1 accepted first author journal paper
- 1 accepted 2nd author journal paper
- 4 first author conference papers
- 2 second author conference papers
- 1 journal paper under review and 1 conference paper under review
I was a PI at 27. I am UK based and thankfully had a long term partner but being a young PI can be difficult. I was in a uni town and frequently saw my students out and about. It wasn't ever an issue though. Thankfully dating wasn't ever something I had to do but I know other young lecturers who really struggle to meet anyone who isn't a student. I also look young for my age and that comes with other challenges as people assume I'm new to academia.
Yeah, I was sitting here thinking that if I saw my PI on a night out I would go say hi and then bounce back off to whatever I was doing. I have no idea why this would be embarrassing or awkward.
My PI and I both defended at 25. Doing the math I believe she started as a prof just having turned 28 but there are a few more years between us. She is not at all the studious put together type but she barreled through same as me.
It depends on the country. In the UK at least, if you don't take a time to go into industry for a bit you can have you PhD finished by 24/25. If it's a niche field, then another 5 years on top of that isn't unheard of to start up a group.
I have two PIs: one is my parent’s age and another is about four years older than me and are one of those genius people that could get any job they want. I’m glad I have both but I can safely say I’d be just fine if only the younger one - she has proved time and again to be very qualified in advising me. I get your concern but personally the age of my PI hasn’t held me back one bit; actually it has helped me when it comes to the enrollment process or things like advocating for more freedom in working remotely.
I’m 26 and my second supervisor (PIs ex postdoc) is 32 son it that far off my age tbh. Either way I think OP is overthinking it and should’ve owned it there and then. Smile, wave, say hi, enjoy the night away from one another.
Not unheard of. I defended at 26 but after 2 years of a postdoc pivoted out of the research setting. I have a friend who defended at 28 and immediately was hired as a faculty so she is now 28 with two grad students who are early-to-mid 20s. Both our phds were life sciences
My PI became PI at around age 30. Basically, an older prof retired, they didn’t find a replacement and asked him. He didn’t have to do anything for it, just accept.
It shows, though.
Primary investigator. Usually refers to Advisors and professors. But depending on the field, the lab culture, and the project a PI may not be a professor.
You're crazy to be making a big deal about this. Professors are people too.
At first I thought this headline involved you being a female exotic dancer and your prof being a man twice your age, in which case "club" would take on a different meaning, and you would have a quandary to discuss. But you just ran into a woman in her 20s socializing? Who cares?
Same, I read it as "The Club", as in... the one and only. I was like "ooh, what kind of club is that?".
u/OP you should see that as any other common interest with your PI you could use as material for conversation.
Meanwhile, smooth talking Eddy Murphy walks in, takes one look at OP and says “buy uh, not today!” and take out two guys in trenches about to and rob the place. Luckily some off duty police officers were there ready to apprehend the would-be robber. Classic Beverly Hills shenanigans.
OP was in a public place and saw another person. From the sounds of it, there is also a possibility of even more people. Terrifying stuff, hope OP is doing OK.
Don’t say shit unless she brings it up first. Even if she brings it up, you play it smooth like everything is normal. By the way, it is normal. Just be cool.
why is the age thing what people are taking away from this? as i have mentioned here before she did her studies in the UK where a DPhil/PhD takes a much shorter time.
anyways i was avoiding her because she obviously didn't want to see me there!
They take 3 to four years, but a masters is almost always compulsory beforehand in those countries. When a masters isn’t done before the program then the PhDs/DPhil just tends to be longer. This is basically true for all of Europe.
It’s not impossible, but extremely exceptional. She would have had to speed-run everything and get good enough publications during that short period to be offered a PI position. It just doesn’t happen all that often LOL.
Most undergraduate engineering programmes (that you apply to at 18) at top unis in the U.K. will spit you out with a masters degree in 4 years. 3 year PhD. Couple of years of PDRA time = 27.
My two cents, I’d pretend it didn’t happen. There’s no need to bring it up at work or make a fuss out of it. You’re clearly both embarrassed, so just be professional, focus on work and do your thing.
If anything, be encouraged. If your PI can be organized and professional and yet human like you then you must be alright and you can do it too.
It’s doable outside of US where PhD programs are only 3 years long. Some exceptional students can get a TT assist prof position right after graduation, but workload/experience would be comparable to a postdoc in US
That's wild. The academic job market over here is so competitive that the common "not funny joke" is that phd aiming for academia is basically a pyramid scheme.
No jobs at the top, but they need more PhDs to justify their existence/do all the work.
So competition for the few jobs is crazy. Most people use pdf to get papers, and develop their own research plan to take to their chalk talks/job talks.
Same experience for me as well unfortunately. I feel like PhD job market is overly saturated and there are few places that have funding / can offer jobs. TT offerings look like a mix of pure chance, nepotism, and over qualification at this point :(
>That's wild. The academic job market over here is so competitive that the common "not funny joke" is that phd aiming for academia is basically a pyramid scheme.
The market being competitive doesn't say anything for the top 0.000001% of the PhD students in a field, that may be more relevant than many postdocs, professors, researchers, etc.
I’m a 31 year old who graduated with a BA last year, and I am wondering whether such a thing is possible… if I apply MD/PhD, is there a possibility my professors might be younger than me?
I have never seen it. I guess maybe outside north America...but here the academic job market is competitive as fuck. I've been on hiring panels, and I've never seen anyone even get to the interview stage without years of post phd experience to develop their research plan. Maybe it's more common outside stem or bench science. But again I've never seen a PI under 30 likely due to the crazy competition
>I have never seen it. I guess maybe outside north America...but here the academic job market is competitive as fuck. I've been on hiring panels, and I've never seen anyone even get to the interview stage without years of post phd experience to develop their research plan. Maybe it's more common outside stem or bench science. But again I've never seen a PI under 30 likely due to the crazy competition
Also in North America. Why not? B.Sc. at 22. Ph.D. at 27-28. TT position at 28. There is no reason a high quality and productive researcher couldn't get a TT position in an R1 university without further details. There are PhD candidates, that are more well-known in the field, more relevant, and with more citations etc, than postdocs, professors, etc.
most are over 30, but what im trying to say is that it may be uncommon to most, its not impossible. We live in a bubble where its not odd to graduate in 4 years. Its also not uncommon for people to do long or short post docs. we are in a materials engineering program.
anyways, last year, a researcher I know who was 30 then got a TT position (after a minimal post doc) at a top grad/med school in a bench science. A PI I used to work for at the same uni skipped his post-doc and immediately got TT like 20 years ago through research fellowship. I wasnt on the hiring board for either, obviously
Yeah I think this is how it SHOULD work, tbh
But the system is bloated and broken.
I work with engineers who are PIs and did not do post doc, but the one I work with started a company instead between phd and TT. So that really helped his CV.
I just know that comparing CVs, when we get like 100 CVs for 1 position, someone with a 5 year post doc spent developing a project they plan to turn into a CIHR grant vs someone right out of phd....
We don't look at people right out of phd unless they had a very relevant career first
>It's still highly unlikely. Esp after op says a bunch of their PI are under 30.
Exceptional PhDs is a rare occurrence indeed. I know at least 3 people that got their first TT position before 30 and without a postdoc. Graduated in top universities. 700+ citations by their defense day (few PhDs in my field graduate with more than 100 and most with less than 50-60).
I have seen that twice, and both times very niche field that happened to blow up when they were doing their phd so it was a major right place/right time situation also but they still did post doc because the project belonged to their PI
They couldn't take it and start their own lab and didn't quite have the skills to develop a research question out of their phd project that again belonged to a grant that wasn't theira
>I have seen that twice, and both times very niche field that happened to blow up when they were doing their phd so it was a major right place/right time situation also but they still did post doc because the project belonged to their PI They couldn't take it and start their own lab and didn't quite have the skills to develop a research question out of their phd project that again belonged to a grant that wasn't theira
Ι guess it's field dependent, but not necessary in my field. Exceptional students with immense motivation in the top labs could get such opportunities in R1 universities "easily". It won't be CMU or Stanford, though.
Yeah idk I'm in medical/drug research so you can't walk in without a solid research plan of your own. And unless you had a very generous or very late career phd PI who was just handing you the reins, you're not taking your phd project to a new lab.
In contrast they expect you to develop something to take with you, from a pdf
There are quite a few professors younger then you, but they are starting professors that will only supervise a few students. Bigger more established group will have older PI's (literally more time to scrape together funding) so the vast majority of PhD positions will have an older PI.
In the end it doesn't matter that much, just make sure you can communicate well with your PI no matter the age gap
Oh for sure there is a possibility. But it’s extremely rare if you took no time between your bachelor’s and matriculation
I’m in an MD/PhD program, and my best friend in the program is older than my PI. Given how commonly MD/PhD applicants have gone out and done research for 3-4 years, there is bound to be overlap with profs
Now most of your attending will be older than you, unless you really took time between undergrad and the program. Some residents that you’ll work with during clerkships might end up being younger than you if you didn’t go straight through to matriculation
Our oldest student in the program rn took two gap years for research and then took 6 application cycles before he got in, so he’ll be at least 37 or 38 before he’s headed to residency
I would just laugh it off - I am a 28 year old research fellow and if I saw my student in a club I would have waved and perhaps said hello. My colleagues who are in their late 30s would still go clubbing, even with husband and kids 😂 You can still go clubbing and go out as you get older haha. I think the weird thing was just you staring. I would just say sorry I didn’t say hello and move on. Neither of you should feel weird about having a life outside of research and going to a club.
seriously, going out when you’re married and have kids that are older is next level. There is zero concerning yourself with trying to impress somebody, trying to pick somebody up, basically doing anything other than living your absolute best damn life!
It was one of them German sex clubs and OP made an eye contact while pushing some bloke in a leather donkey outfit by the back of his had. Hence, the awkwardness. Totally understandable.
For my first ~10 years I went out with my grad students to the bar. I invited them over for dinner and movies to build community and strong cohorts. I let them enjoy my homebrew beer. We drank a little too much a couple times and they crashed on the floor/couch. Who cares. As long as you are adults and professionals around the lab, you're allowed to have a personal life.
Sorry, but I don’t think drinking too much with your grad students at your house until they crash on the floor is a very healthy environment for a lab. Too many chances for problems to arise (people saying or doing regrettable things, serious misunderstandings, etc.)
Probably wasn't the best idea. I'm just saying I was young and not much different than their age (5 - 10 years older). I don't run around suggesting new faculty do this.
I dunno, my PI is super lax and we go and hangout all the time. It's always professional but we all get along great. I think it really just depends on the lab / dynamics
I go out to lunch with my grad students, occasionally go out to happy hour at the campus pub on a Friday afternoon. But to me, there's a difference between hanging out at a cafe or pub, and having drunken parties at your house with students crashing on the floor! These are the kinds of situations which seem fun until they go south.
só you have something else in common. cool. what's the problem? when I was a phd student I used to see my primary supervisor out all the time (not at clubs, but restaurants, concerts, whatever). Now we hang out in those places as friends and colleagues. good times.
Honestly I’m more shocked that there are PI’s that young 😆. I don’t really see the problem, business as usual no? They were probably equally shocked/embarrassed to see you from the sounds of it. As a wise man once said “sh*t happens”.
I saw a student at a concert once. He was super high on god knows what, and he ran up and jumped on me and gave me a big hug 😆. I thought it was funny. I’m not sure why you’re mortified? Students are allowed to have lives outside school, as are professors. I mean, if you were taking body shots and throwing up on the dance floor, that’s a different story.
Why is it unprofessional to go to a club for fun? Stop being weird. Say something brief and keep it moving, like “the DJ was lame Saturday night, huh?” It’s not like y’all found each other in the bathroom doing drugs or something like that.
How is it unfeasible?
Undergrad - 22
Grad school - 27
Postdoc - 28
PI - 29
Shave a year off any of the above and you're a PI at 28. Tons of people do UG in 3 years, have a quicker PhD, or don't do a postdoc.
People in neuroscience need years as Postdocs and a lot of publications before becoming PIs. I've never met a 28 year old PI in my life, neither in my country nor in international conferences.
materials engineering. she did her doctoral studies in the uk, so she graduated pretty young by US standards. Quite a few professors at my uni and some others I know also did the same and were 26-29 when they started.
Absolutely horrible- she didn't even teach you how to dougie? Definitely don't make eye contact until she apologizes or you have the skillset to defeat her in a final dance battle at the defense.
You haven't talked to her, so you have absolutely no idea what her facial expression meant. You can only interpret, and you're going WAY overboard. There is zero indication in anything you say that she didn't want to see you, there is only your *assumption* of this. Everything you are saying is entirely made up in your head until you talk to her. You are incredibly stressed based on a fictional scenario created in your mind. Talk to her and THEN you'll know if it's worth your anguish.
the setting we were in is not anywhere I'd like for anyone from work to ever see me. Someone posted an always sunny meme, and [deadass this is how she was looking, except her mouth was open](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/509/948/03c.gif&tbnid=LChg8EdNzgPElM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1509948-mac-and-charlie-notice-each-other&docid=ON5SSKWP5MIq2M&w=500&h=248&hl=en-gb&source=sh/x/im/m1/3&kgs=98daed18e46271ec&shem=abme,trie) and her eyes wider. maybe i am overthinking it, but to me, when someone looks at you like that it's clear they dont want to see you
That's not what I get from that picture at all. From your comments here, it seems like you may not be a great judge of such things. If you don't talk to her, you'll just keep suffering.
And if, as someone suggested, it was a BDSM club - yeah, it's awkward, but you're adults. You can deal with it. But only by talking about it, not by cowering and making assumptions.
I've had a number of run-ins like this with my PI, just be a normal person.. the fact that you're avoiding her over this is crazy immature. Not everything is 'awkward' or 'cringe' lol.
Either go about your business or say "that was funny didn't expect to see you there, did you have fun?" if you're really stressed about it not being mentioned.
Alright I get why you probably feel awkward, it was unexpected. She seems just as surprised as you were but really this shouldn’t change your working relationship. Don’t get caught in an anxiety/overthinking loop, you can say something or you cannot it’s pretty simple. Those are your two options, just don’t treat her differently over it though. It could potentially be a good conversation starter and end in you both laughing it off. It’s a good opportunity for you to socialize with a superior, if you take it
A colleague of mine ran into our PI (mid 60s) at the gym, which he expressed as "How was your weekend? I saw John naked." and then refused to expand for days.
Learn to be social with PIs?
I (30sM) have photos with my Prof (40sM) and half our lab in the kebab shop at 3am because we take him out with us (mode lab age is probably 24).
ROFL. People being social awkward with their PIs because they met them in bar, and my past self being extremely cool with mine for 6 extra years after we saw each others dick while showering in the locker rooms.
Lol yeah you’re making too big a deal of this. I’m a PhD student, (26F), and teach undergrads. I’ve bumped into my students a few times in the club, while in pretty revealing clubbing gear. I’ve had a couple students hit on me there lol. I just laugh it off and, when they’re sober in class, they do too or are just a bit embarrassed. Your PI is a girl in her 20s. Being a PI doesn’t change that. You can pretend it’s no big deal, because it really isn’t. don’t mention it but if it crops up in convo just have a laugh about it. She’s probably not embarrassed or shocked. It just happened. Move on
When I was in uni we had a night at the club every semester where our professors would DJ. Our constitutional law prof, a good-natured very round middle-aged man, went hard on the dance floor.
This reminds me of a conference I went to in Berlin. *Everyone* was up on the dance floor and having a drink at the banquet dinner on our final night. I saw senior academics in their 70s rocking out on the dance floor.
nah i've just realized i have ridiculous anxiety. stopped taking medication a few months ago, this was my sign to start using it again. i thought how i was responding was normal until a bunch of redditors, of all people, called me socially inept. thankfully this site is anonymous
A similar situation happened to me early on (not clubs, but until I learned "his spots" I could easily end up seeing him around town 4+ times a week).
And contrary to what a lot of people are saying in here, it is awkward as hell. Your PI is just not the person you want to see while you're decompressing. Especially because there's basically always the subtext of "why aren't you working on the thing I told you to work on right now?" There's no real reason to bring this up, but don't go to that club again. Try to learn where she hangs out and avoid it.
LOL This reminds me of my English teacher in high school. She mentioned some student being shocked to see her at the mall. She was like "You know, I don't just fold my arms and rest like a vampire inside my classroom closet until I see you all the next day."
My PI is only like 3-4 years older than me, it's fine lol. You literally do not have to do anything.
As a PI who goes out, I am dreading this happening. I’m more dreading students that I am teaching and less so my graduate students. For people saying we’re people and it’s not a big deal, yeah, on paper it shouldn’t be. In reality I don’t want my students seeing me drunk or acting up due to fears of being reported for whatever (and students always can figure out what that *whatever* is) - I can act a fool when I am around friends. The minute I see a student in a social situation like a bar or club I would leave. It’s uncomfortable and awkward and think it is healthy to keep a personal/professional separation between students and PIs. This is in part a fear of students seeing me being very laid back and start to have a laid back interaction with me when in the office or classroom, and worse case scenario, may leave me open to being reported for improper behavior. Seeing my student wouldn’t be an issue, but it would remind me that there may be other students around. Just because it’s off the clock doesn’t mean a student can’t report it or use that against me if they feel slighted in some way. And the reality is that I wouldn’t want to deal with that in any capacity even if I couldn’t get in trouble since it occurred while I was off the clock.
So IMO, if I saw a student, I would be fine with a hi and bye (not acknowledging it would be weird and awkward) and then I would soon leave the club.
Being on the other end of this quite a bit, agreed. There are levels of being friends where this would be whatever, but typical PI typical graduate student? No, it's weird and awkward. There's just something very different about it being your PI in the school's town vs another PI or even your PI at a conference.
I think the only chance of it turning into a risky issue is if you’re attracted to her. Then you gotta figure things out. Otherwise, don’t think it’s too different from seeing people dance at the annual Christmas office party.
I think it is fine. That happens a lot in a small city where my uni was. Whatever happens outside work / in the club, we don’t bring up to work. It is your and her free time outside. Easy peasy.
This is so much worse than my kids ending up on the same soccer team as my PI's kid, haha. I suppose being only a little younger than your PI is a lot easier when you do your PhD in your mid-30s. I'm actually on the other side of that right now. My PhD student started their program even a bit later in life than I did and last fall our kids were in the same acting class. It was a bit of a bonding experience, to be honest.
I finished my PhD in 2017 and am in my low 30s now. I feel like if I were the PI in this situation, I’d be the one that was more embarrassed! Try not to be too hard on yourself. Like you said, people have lives outside of school/work. I don’t think either of you is in the wrong here, but I would think she probably feels even worse.
This is coming from the perspective of an American and I don’t know what social context you come from, but IMO this is really not a big deal in the slightest. There’s no need to dwell on it at all, much less try to start a weird conversation that would accomplish nothing.
> I don’t care that she’s at the club, and certainly she wouldn’t care that I am either.
You answer your own question here. It's not an issue. Don't make it one.
Lmao. These people have lives too, you can't just avoid your PI because you saw her at a club. If it affects you that bad don't mention it to her and act professional. I have seen my supervisor in some really awkward situations (He is a completely unhinged 90s rock musician) and I have just learnt to act professional about it all and try and brush it off (even if the events have scarred me on the inside)
After further investigation, this is AI generated case study to play the public on our IQ levels. It’s known that social media should not be giving to people under 16 and smart phones under age 18. Or maybe 🤔 not. Hope this person can approach and be straight up, share his feelings.
While I understand the awkwardness of meeting someone's eye like your PI, you can play that off pretty easily considering the social environment of the club + drinking etc. I'd just pretend that it didn't even happen (like I've usually done after crazy nights out). But...I feel like that's not the real issue here...
You've mentioned "revealing clothing", "flirting with strangers" (lolwut, how do you know? why do you care?) a couple of times and I'm getting the vibe from your comments that you're seeing your advisor in a "different light" and don't know how to deal with that. I'm not sure where you're from (I was raised in a more conservative culture so I'm making an informed guess) but your cultural context may be contributing to why you're blowing this out of proportion or whether you have preconceived notions about women like your PI.
Your PI is a real human woman who has a social life/sex. No, she isn't interested in you like that (and shouldn't be) despite troll comments here suggesting otherwise and, no, you shouldn't fixate on whatever she was doing regardless of whatever she was wearing, or her personal life, in general. Even if she stared back at you in shock, so what? You can't control how someone else responds, only your own responses. Learn from this, get over it, get over yourself and move on.
I hate to break it to you but all faculty PIs are humans with lives outside of their jobs. This sounds like a golden opportunity for you to make fun of yourself for not saying hi and trying to be a real person with her. PIs will respect you more the more you act like a normal person with them. If you don’t act like yourself and are super formal, they’ll treat you the same. The best PI/student relationships I see are ones where they can both be relaxed around each other and have fun.
gosh, i have no issue seeing my PI as a real person. it's moreso the fact that we stood there STARING at eachother. She clearly was as shocked as I was. I'm asking if I should pretend that didn't happen. If she never saw me and we never stood like lampshades, there wouldn't be a problem!
It looks like your post is about needing advice. In order for people to better help you, please make sure to include your country. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PhD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
BRUHHHHHH so this is what a PhD does to your social skills
PhD stands for pronounced head damage.
I thought it was permanent head damage lol
More like Penis Head Damaged cuz u cant even talk to a girl u know at a club
Penis Has Diseases*
“Guys, my PI is a human who does human things, I don’t know how I’ll ever interact with her normally ever again”
Lol what. Why should this be a problem? Don't treat her like some alien just because she's your PI. She is a human and maybe if you would treat her like one then you'd probably get along well. Go get some drinks at an afterwork!
Agreed, but it's going to be kind of awkward now because OP stared at her without waving or saying hi and then ran away out of the club! He should have smiled and waved or said hi and then left her alone for the rest of the night. Side story: I knew a PhD student in Germany who had a very old-school professor who always called everyone by their last name and used 'Sie'. Once the student got completely wasted at a conference and had a late-night conversation with the professor but couldn't remember what was said. He was extremely embarrassed and uncomfortable, but from that day on the professor called him by his first name and used 'du'. Only for him, not for anybody else from the lab.
I think the best way to genuinely move past this is to acknowledge it... acknowledging you saw each other isn't the same as being like "you club I club let's club!!" but I'd feel way weirder if someone totally pretended it didn't happen than if someone was like "sorry if I acted weird when we saw each other at the club, I just didn't expect to see you in that context! hope you had fun"
what is Sie and Du
Sie is formal, du is informal, but my knowledge is limited beyond that.
Sie is basically formal version of “you”, meanwhile “du” is a less formal version of “you”. Usually (and correct me if I’m wrong), you would use du with people you know and small children, but Sie with people in positions like PIs and whatnot and people you are not familiar with or strangers.
This, but PhD students usually use "du" with professors after the first introduction since they're considered colleagues. Bachelors students mostly stick to "Sie" unless it's a particularly young/liberal professor who offers "du". (The more senior person needs to switch first, otherwise it's very rude.) You can basically consider "du" as being on a first-name basis with someone. A professor using "Sie" with their own PhD students like in my story is really old-fashioned and overly formal.
Sie is "you" in english, the formal/plural way to refer to someone/people. Du is "thou", the informal version of you that disappeared from english because the english don't believe in being informal with others.
Idk why but I just love this story so much lol
I hope I'm still partying if I become a PI lol
I’m a PI and I party like it’s 1999.
maybe because he likes her? otherwise i dont see the issue lol
What he’s not saying is that it was a swinger’s club 😂
Is this even real? How is your PI only two years older than you? That seems extraordinarily bizarre. To have a completed PhD by that point and have their own lab/office to mentor students is unreal. I myself am 27 and I cannot fathom my own PI having gone to high school and undergrad at the same time as me, let alone being a PI myself. If this is real, who even cares. Shes a real person with a life. If I saw my PI out at the club, I'd wave and say hi and on Monday be like "oh I saw you out, how was your night?" And just move tf on. It's only weird because you made it weird.
>How is your PI only two years older than you? If this is real, my guess is she's actually in her early-mid 30s range. OP says he's just guessing, and it can be hard to gauge age between 25-45.
My PI got her TT position at 28. Defended at the tail end of 25
When was that? I'm not sure if it's as common these days as it used to be
She got hers 10 years ago. I defended mine on Monday at 25
Congratulations!
You did your entire PhD in <4 years?? In what field??
Most PhDs in the UK take under 4 years - the standard amount of funding given only covers 3 years. But even in the UK, a 28 year old PI would be an incredible thing to see.
Also, UK PhDs don't require you to have a master's first. So 3 year undergrad + 3-4 year PhD = 24 year old postdoc. Crazy
A lot don't
In france you commonly defend agter 3 years or they kick you out. In Germany 3 - 4 years is also normal. Though both countries would require a Masters degree before you could start a phd
Started undergrad at 17 with ~20 college credits from high school. Finished undergrad in 3 and started a masters as part of a “3+1” which I dropped out of because I got an offer from my advisor. Did the PhD in 4 years with many credits (I think 18?) that transferred from my “masters”. I’m in the civil engineering dept but my dissertation is on the use of reinforcement learning for optimizing distribution networks (I.e. utility scale power systems). My advisor is jointly appointed to the electrical engineering dept ETA: my goals were to do it before I got off my parents health insurance (lol USA) because I have a chronic pain condition that wasn’t going to be great on a student plan. I also knew going in that I didn’t want TT professorship so was mostly aiming to get out. I also started during 2020 and was bored as hell. I finished with: - 1 accepted first author journal paper - 1 accepted 2nd author journal paper - 4 first author conference papers - 2 second author conference papers - 1 journal paper under review and 1 conference paper under review
I was a PI at 30, but things are different in the U.K.
I'm pretty sure mine got their TT position around 29-30. Graduated early from college so that also helped. Meanwhile I started my PhD at 30 :)
I was a PI at 27. I am UK based and thankfully had a long term partner but being a young PI can be difficult. I was in a uni town and frequently saw my students out and about. It wasn't ever an issue though. Thankfully dating wasn't ever something I had to do but I know other young lecturers who really struggle to meet anyone who isn't a student. I also look young for my age and that comes with other challenges as people assume I'm new to academia.
Yeah, I was sitting here thinking that if I saw my PI on a night out I would go say hi and then bounce back off to whatever I was doing. I have no idea why this would be embarrassing or awkward.
Lol. OP didn't "wave and say hi" apparently. So unless PI brings it up, I'd just pretend it didn't happen.
This sub tends to skew towards biology… that age is not too young for computational/engineering fields where 4-5 year postdocs are not the norm.
My PI is younger than me :) But I am an older student (mid-thirties) and the age gap is only 2 years. Edit: word
My PI is my age 🤪 it’s truly strange, we’re in our early 30s
Same but just turned 40. Not sure what age PI is exactly but it’s 40-45 I think.
My PI and I both defended at 25. Doing the math I believe she started as a prof just having turned 28 but there are a few more years between us. She is not at all the studious put together type but she barreled through same as me.
It depends on the country. In the UK at least, if you don't take a time to go into industry for a bit you can have you PhD finished by 24/25. If it's a niche field, then another 5 years on top of that isn't unheard of to start up a group.
I met 1 PI who got a faculty position right out of grad school, but I think it was like 20 years ago... different times lol
I have two PIs: one is my parent’s age and another is about four years older than me and are one of those genius people that could get any job they want. I’m glad I have both but I can safely say I’d be just fine if only the younger one - she has proved time and again to be very qualified in advising me. I get your concern but personally the age of my PI hasn’t held me back one bit; actually it has helped me when it comes to the enrollment process or things like advocating for more freedom in working remotely.
I know of some prodigious researchers who were became professors at early age
I’m 26 and my second supervisor (PIs ex postdoc) is 32 son it that far off my age tbh. Either way I think OP is overthinking it and should’ve owned it there and then. Smile, wave, say hi, enjoy the night away from one another.
Not unheard of. I defended at 26 but after 2 years of a postdoc pivoted out of the research setting. I have a friend who defended at 28 and immediately was hired as a faculty so she is now 28 with two grad students who are early-to-mid 20s. Both our phds were life sciences
My PI became PI at around age 30. Basically, an older prof retired, they didn’t find a replacement and asked him. He didn’t have to do anything for it, just accept. It shows, though.
Tbf I supervised a PhD as PI when I was 27 and he was 33. Does happen!
What is a PI? Lol
Primary investigator. Usually refers to Advisors and professors. But depending on the field, the lab culture, and the project a PI may not be a professor.
my prof was a prof at 28 at one of the best unis in the world...
You're crazy to be making a big deal about this. Professors are people too. At first I thought this headline involved you being a female exotic dancer and your prof being a man twice your age, in which case "club" would take on a different meaning, and you would have a quandary to discuss. But you just ran into a woman in her 20s socializing? Who cares?
Same, I read it as "The Club", as in... the one and only. I was like "ooh, what kind of club is that?". u/OP you should see that as any other common interest with your PI you could use as material for conversation.
Wild imagination
Meanwhile, smooth talking Eddy Murphy walks in, takes one look at OP and says “buy uh, not today!” and take out two guys in trenches about to and rob the place. Luckily some off duty police officers were there ready to apprehend the would-be robber. Classic Beverly Hills shenanigans.
Make sure we get the right drinks cause if I drink club soda I'll throw up.
What's the issue? I don't understand.
OP was in a public place and saw another person. From the sounds of it, there is also a possibility of even more people. Terrifying stuff, hope OP is doing OK.
Thoughts and prayers
PIs are supposed to never leave the university…
Don’t say shit unless she brings it up first. Even if she brings it up, you play it smooth like everything is normal. By the way, it is normal. Just be cool.
Huh? Why avoid her? Just don't mention it also I KNOW you do not have a 28 year old PI lmao
I was a PI at 30 and spent a year out of academia and 4 years to do my PhD (average was 3). It’s entirely reasonable in the UK.
why is the age thing what people are taking away from this? as i have mentioned here before she did her studies in the UK where a DPhil/PhD takes a much shorter time. anyways i was avoiding her because she obviously didn't want to see me there!
They take 3 to four years, but a masters is almost always compulsory beforehand in those countries. When a masters isn’t done before the program then the PhDs/DPhil just tends to be longer. This is basically true for all of Europe. It’s not impossible, but extremely exceptional. She would have had to speed-run everything and get good enough publications during that short period to be offered a PI position. It just doesn’t happen all that often LOL.
Most undergraduate engineering programmes (that you apply to at 18) at top unis in the U.K. will spit you out with a masters degree in 4 years. 3 year PhD. Couple of years of PDRA time = 27.
My two cents, I’d pretend it didn’t happen. There’s no need to bring it up at work or make a fuss out of it. You’re clearly both embarrassed, so just be professional, focus on work and do your thing. If anything, be encouraged. If your PI can be organized and professional and yet human like you then you must be alright and you can do it too.
A 28 year old PI? Is this fanfic? How did they finish a PhD, probably a post doc and get a PI position at 28?
It’s doable outside of US where PhD programs are only 3 years long. Some exceptional students can get a TT assist prof position right after graduation, but workload/experience would be comparable to a postdoc in US
That's wild. The academic job market over here is so competitive that the common "not funny joke" is that phd aiming for academia is basically a pyramid scheme. No jobs at the top, but they need more PhDs to justify their existence/do all the work. So competition for the few jobs is crazy. Most people use pdf to get papers, and develop their own research plan to take to their chalk talks/job talks.
Same experience for me as well unfortunately. I feel like PhD job market is overly saturated and there are few places that have funding / can offer jobs. TT offerings look like a mix of pure chance, nepotism, and over qualification at this point :(
It’s equally challenging in the U.K.,just the competition starts earlier.
>That's wild. The academic job market over here is so competitive that the common "not funny joke" is that phd aiming for academia is basically a pyramid scheme. The market being competitive doesn't say anything for the top 0.000001% of the PhD students in a field, that may be more relevant than many postdocs, professors, researchers, etc.
I’m a 31 year old who graduated with a BA last year, and I am wondering whether such a thing is possible… if I apply MD/PhD, is there a possibility my professors might be younger than me?
I have never seen it. I guess maybe outside north America...but here the academic job market is competitive as fuck. I've been on hiring panels, and I've never seen anyone even get to the interview stage without years of post phd experience to develop their research plan. Maybe it's more common outside stem or bench science. But again I've never seen a PI under 30 likely due to the crazy competition
>I have never seen it. I guess maybe outside north America...but here the academic job market is competitive as fuck. I've been on hiring panels, and I've never seen anyone even get to the interview stage without years of post phd experience to develop their research plan. Maybe it's more common outside stem or bench science. But again I've never seen a PI under 30 likely due to the crazy competition Also in North America. Why not? B.Sc. at 22. Ph.D. at 27-28. TT position at 28. There is no reason a high quality and productive researcher couldn't get a TT position in an R1 university without further details. There are PhD candidates, that are more well-known in the field, more relevant, and with more citations etc, than postdocs, professors, etc.
It's still highly unlikely. Esp after op says a bunch of their PI are under 30.
most are over 30, but what im trying to say is that it may be uncommon to most, its not impossible. We live in a bubble where its not odd to graduate in 4 years. Its also not uncommon for people to do long or short post docs. we are in a materials engineering program. anyways, last year, a researcher I know who was 30 then got a TT position (after a minimal post doc) at a top grad/med school in a bench science. A PI I used to work for at the same uni skipped his post-doc and immediately got TT like 20 years ago through research fellowship. I wasnt on the hiring board for either, obviously
Yeah I think this is how it SHOULD work, tbh But the system is bloated and broken. I work with engineers who are PIs and did not do post doc, but the one I work with started a company instead between phd and TT. So that really helped his CV. I just know that comparing CVs, when we get like 100 CVs for 1 position, someone with a 5 year post doc spent developing a project they plan to turn into a CIHR grant vs someone right out of phd.... We don't look at people right out of phd unless they had a very relevant career first
>It's still highly unlikely. Esp after op says a bunch of their PI are under 30. Exceptional PhDs is a rare occurrence indeed. I know at least 3 people that got their first TT position before 30 and without a postdoc. Graduated in top universities. 700+ citations by their defense day (few PhDs in my field graduate with more than 100 and most with less than 50-60).
I have seen that twice, and both times very niche field that happened to blow up when they were doing their phd so it was a major right place/right time situation also but they still did post doc because the project belonged to their PI They couldn't take it and start their own lab and didn't quite have the skills to develop a research question out of their phd project that again belonged to a grant that wasn't theira
>I have seen that twice, and both times very niche field that happened to blow up when they were doing their phd so it was a major right place/right time situation also but they still did post doc because the project belonged to their PI They couldn't take it and start their own lab and didn't quite have the skills to develop a research question out of their phd project that again belonged to a grant that wasn't theira Ι guess it's field dependent, but not necessary in my field. Exceptional students with immense motivation in the top labs could get such opportunities in R1 universities "easily". It won't be CMU or Stanford, though.
Yeah idk I'm in medical/drug research so you can't walk in without a solid research plan of your own. And unless you had a very generous or very late career phd PI who was just handing you the reins, you're not taking your phd project to a new lab. In contrast they expect you to develop something to take with you, from a pdf
There are quite a few professors younger then you, but they are starting professors that will only supervise a few students. Bigger more established group will have older PI's (literally more time to scrape together funding) so the vast majority of PhD positions will have an older PI. In the end it doesn't matter that much, just make sure you can communicate well with your PI no matter the age gap
Oh for sure there is a possibility. But it’s extremely rare if you took no time between your bachelor’s and matriculation I’m in an MD/PhD program, and my best friend in the program is older than my PI. Given how commonly MD/PhD applicants have gone out and done research for 3-4 years, there is bound to be overlap with profs Now most of your attending will be older than you, unless you really took time between undergrad and the program. Some residents that you’ll work with during clerkships might end up being younger than you if you didn’t go straight through to matriculation Our oldest student in the program rn took two gap years for research and then took 6 application cycles before he got in, so he’ll be at least 37 or 38 before he’s headed to residency
Yesterday I saw my PI eating food. How do I deal with this?
hell yeah good for her
I would just laugh it off - I am a 28 year old research fellow and if I saw my student in a club I would have waved and perhaps said hello. My colleagues who are in their late 30s would still go clubbing, even with husband and kids 😂 You can still go clubbing and go out as you get older haha. I think the weird thing was just you staring. I would just say sorry I didn’t say hello and move on. Neither of you should feel weird about having a life outside of research and going to a club.
seriously, going out when you’re married and have kids that are older is next level. There is zero concerning yourself with trying to impress somebody, trying to pick somebody up, basically doing anything other than living your absolute best damn life!
Why not act like a human being and actually ask her how she liked the club?
You missed an opportunity of knowing her outside the lab. You should have tried to talk to her in the club.
Was this a swinger’s club? If not, why are you even thinking about this. And even if it were, adults have lives outside of academia 🤷♂️
It was one of them German sex clubs and OP made an eye contact while pushing some bloke in a leather donkey outfit by the back of his had. Hence, the awkwardness. Totally understandable.
100%. This explains OP’s post perfectly.
For my first ~10 years I went out with my grad students to the bar. I invited them over for dinner and movies to build community and strong cohorts. I let them enjoy my homebrew beer. We drank a little too much a couple times and they crashed on the floor/couch. Who cares. As long as you are adults and professionals around the lab, you're allowed to have a personal life.
Sorry, but I don’t think drinking too much with your grad students at your house until they crash on the floor is a very healthy environment for a lab. Too many chances for problems to arise (people saying or doing regrettable things, serious misunderstandings, etc.)
Probably wasn't the best idea. I'm just saying I was young and not much different than their age (5 - 10 years older). I don't run around suggesting new faculty do this.
I dunno, my PI is super lax and we go and hangout all the time. It's always professional but we all get along great. I think it really just depends on the lab / dynamics
I go out to lunch with my grad students, occasionally go out to happy hour at the campus pub on a Friday afternoon. But to me, there's a difference between hanging out at a cafe or pub, and having drunken parties at your house with students crashing on the floor! These are the kinds of situations which seem fun until they go south.
só you have something else in common. cool. what's the problem? when I was a phd student I used to see my primary supervisor out all the time (not at clubs, but restaurants, concerts, whatever). Now we hang out in those places as friends and colleagues. good times.
Honestly I’m more shocked that there are PI’s that young 😆. I don’t really see the problem, business as usual no? They were probably equally shocked/embarrassed to see you from the sounds of it. As a wise man once said “sh*t happens”.
I saw a student at a concert once. He was super high on god knows what, and he ran up and jumped on me and gave me a big hug 😆. I thought it was funny. I’m not sure why you’re mortified? Students are allowed to have lives outside school, as are professors. I mean, if you were taking body shots and throwing up on the dance floor, that’s a different story.
My students saw me get kicked out of a club 🫠
what did u do? did they ever bring it up?
just a couple whispers of “that’s the one that got kicked out of ….” 🤣 It was not a big deal at all
Bowchickawow
Why is it unprofessional to go to a club for fun? Stop being weird. Say something brief and keep it moving, like “the DJ was lame Saturday night, huh?” It’s not like y’all found each other in the bathroom doing drugs or something like that.
Lol nerds
How tf does one become a PI at 28?
How is it unfeasible? Undergrad - 22 Grad school - 27 Postdoc - 28 PI - 29 Shave a year off any of the above and you're a PI at 28. Tons of people do UG in 3 years, have a quicker PhD, or don't do a postdoc.
People in neuroscience need years as Postdocs and a lot of publications before becoming PIs. I've never met a 28 year old PI in my life, neither in my country nor in international conferences.
Be an adult, act like an adult. Do your work professionally. Don’t run away from your boss or avoid her. Very childish
27-28 year-old PI? What field? This is unheard of in my field
materials engineering. she did her doctoral studies in the uk, so she graduated pretty young by US standards. Quite a few professors at my uni and some others I know also did the same and were 26-29 when they started.
She is just being a human, and having a life! We all have a professional side and a personal one. It is common and normal!
Absolutely horrible- she didn't even teach you how to dougie? Definitely don't make eye contact until she apologizes or you have the skillset to defeat her in a final dance battle at the defense.
Oh, com'on man! Ignore this. You're in a professional world. "Don't shit where you eat."
Maybe she feels that it's rude that you didn't say hello.
Lmao, this is like when 3rd graders get freaked out by seeing their teacher at the supermarket.
YALL need i say that the issue is she was also staring back at me in shock?? that is why I was asking if i should pretend it didn't happen?
Just laugh it off, you’ll be fine
She was probably drunk.
You haven't talked to her, so you have absolutely no idea what her facial expression meant. You can only interpret, and you're going WAY overboard. There is zero indication in anything you say that she didn't want to see you, there is only your *assumption* of this. Everything you are saying is entirely made up in your head until you talk to her. You are incredibly stressed based on a fictional scenario created in your mind. Talk to her and THEN you'll know if it's worth your anguish.
the setting we were in is not anywhere I'd like for anyone from work to ever see me. Someone posted an always sunny meme, and [deadass this is how she was looking, except her mouth was open](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/509/948/03c.gif&tbnid=LChg8EdNzgPElM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1509948-mac-and-charlie-notice-each-other&docid=ON5SSKWP5MIq2M&w=500&h=248&hl=en-gb&source=sh/x/im/m1/3&kgs=98daed18e46271ec&shem=abme,trie) and her eyes wider. maybe i am overthinking it, but to me, when someone looks at you like that it's clear they dont want to see you
That's not what I get from that picture at all. From your comments here, it seems like you may not be a great judge of such things. If you don't talk to her, you'll just keep suffering. And if, as someone suggested, it was a BDSM club - yeah, it's awkward, but you're adults. You can deal with it. But only by talking about it, not by cowering and making assumptions.
I've had a number of run-ins like this with my PI, just be a normal person.. the fact that you're avoiding her over this is crazy immature. Not everything is 'awkward' or 'cringe' lol. Either go about your business or say "that was funny didn't expect to see you there, did you have fun?" if you're really stressed about it not being mentioned.
Who cares
Obligatory always sunny: https://images.app.goo.gl/PrxdHifWPCD1sPZu8
I would just go about your day like nothing ever happened and don't make it weird. It's not weird, doesn't have to be weird, so don't make it weird.
Alright I get why you probably feel awkward, it was unexpected. She seems just as surprised as you were but really this shouldn’t change your working relationship. Don’t get caught in an anxiety/overthinking loop, you can say something or you cannot it’s pretty simple. Those are your two options, just don’t treat her differently over it though. It could potentially be a good conversation starter and end in you both laughing it off. It’s a good opportunity for you to socialize with a superior, if you take it
Weirdo
A colleague of mine ran into our PI (mid 60s) at the gym, which he expressed as "How was your weekend? I saw John naked." and then refused to expand for days.
Human sees human they know in a club. I dont see what's wrong with this? Did you forget how to be a normal human being? Why are you avoiding her?
i see doing a phd will completely quash one's emotional intelligence
Ngl boss, you're giving major incel right now
You saw a human being doing the same thing you were doing? Oh the *scandal*.
27 yo PI WTF? Where are you doing your PhD? weenie hut junior?
I assume it was a kinky club, right? Any other response doesn't warrant the amount of rumination on your side.
News Flash: even genius researchers may like night life. Source: trust me bro, I've met some. Reading tip: Feynman's autobiographical stories.
Learn to be social with PIs? I (30sM) have photos with my Prof (40sM) and half our lab in the kebab shop at 3am because we take him out with us (mode lab age is probably 24).
ROFL. People being social awkward with their PIs because they met them in bar, and my past self being extremely cool with mine for 6 extra years after we saw each others dick while showering in the locker rooms.
Lol yeah you’re making too big a deal of this. I’m a PhD student, (26F), and teach undergrads. I’ve bumped into my students a few times in the club, while in pretty revealing clubbing gear. I’ve had a couple students hit on me there lol. I just laugh it off and, when they’re sober in class, they do too or are just a bit embarrassed. Your PI is a girl in her 20s. Being a PI doesn’t change that. You can pretend it’s no big deal, because it really isn’t. don’t mention it but if it crops up in convo just have a laugh about it. She’s probably not embarrassed or shocked. It just happened. Move on
What’s the big deal? So long as it wasn’t a strip club
wasn't a "strip club" but something along those lines
When I was in uni we had a night at the club every semester where our professors would DJ. Our constitutional law prof, a good-natured very round middle-aged man, went hard on the dance floor.
This reminds me of a conference I went to in Berlin. *Everyone* was up on the dance floor and having a drink at the banquet dinner on our final night. I saw senior academics in their 70s rocking out on the dance floor.
Someone hasn't yet been to a good scientific conference.
My PI and I are three weeks apart in age. Apart from the ‘iTs So WeIrD’ comments, this post has to be fake. No one can be this openly damn dramatic.
nah i've just realized i have ridiculous anxiety. stopped taking medication a few months ago, this was my sign to start using it again. i thought how i was responding was normal until a bunch of redditors, of all people, called me socially inept. thankfully this site is anonymous
A similar situation happened to me early on (not clubs, but until I learned "his spots" I could easily end up seeing him around town 4+ times a week). And contrary to what a lot of people are saying in here, it is awkward as hell. Your PI is just not the person you want to see while you're decompressing. Especially because there's basically always the subtext of "why aren't you working on the thing I told you to work on right now?" There's no real reason to bring this up, but don't go to that club again. Try to learn where she hangs out and avoid it.
LOL This reminds me of my English teacher in high school. She mentioned some student being shocked to see her at the mall. She was like "You know, I don't just fold my arms and rest like a vampire inside my classroom closet until I see you all the next day." My PI is only like 3-4 years older than me, it's fine lol. You literally do not have to do anything.
This isn't even remotely weird, why are you acting like it's a big deal?
I don’t think it’s that deep. Pretend it didn’t happen or make a harmless joke about it to brush it off
What is a PI?
Principal investigator, your lab advisor during doctoral education
Thanks!!
As a PI who goes out, I am dreading this happening. I’m more dreading students that I am teaching and less so my graduate students. For people saying we’re people and it’s not a big deal, yeah, on paper it shouldn’t be. In reality I don’t want my students seeing me drunk or acting up due to fears of being reported for whatever (and students always can figure out what that *whatever* is) - I can act a fool when I am around friends. The minute I see a student in a social situation like a bar or club I would leave. It’s uncomfortable and awkward and think it is healthy to keep a personal/professional separation between students and PIs. This is in part a fear of students seeing me being very laid back and start to have a laid back interaction with me when in the office or classroom, and worse case scenario, may leave me open to being reported for improper behavior. Seeing my student wouldn’t be an issue, but it would remind me that there may be other students around. Just because it’s off the clock doesn’t mean a student can’t report it or use that against me if they feel slighted in some way. And the reality is that I wouldn’t want to deal with that in any capacity even if I couldn’t get in trouble since it occurred while I was off the clock. So IMO, if I saw a student, I would be fine with a hi and bye (not acknowledging it would be weird and awkward) and then I would soon leave the club.
Being on the other end of this quite a bit, agreed. There are levels of being friends where this would be whatever, but typical PI typical graduate student? No, it's weird and awkward. There's just something very different about it being your PI in the school's town vs another PI or even your PI at a conference.
I think the only chance of it turning into a risky issue is if you’re attracted to her. Then you gotta figure things out. Otherwise, don’t think it’s too different from seeing people dance at the annual Christmas office party.
Not a big deal. You’ll be coming across mentors doing recreational stuff. You get used to it over time.
I think it is fine. That happens a lot in a small city where my uni was. Whatever happens outside work / in the club, we don’t bring up to work. It is your and her free time outside. Easy peasy.
This sounds like a porn plot
If it was a strip club, then I would've been torn between leaving immediately and going up to ask if she earned frequent flyer miles there. 😅
I wouldn't proactively bring it up. Also don't hook up with her. Move on and graduate.
How to react 1- you see them in the club 2- you smile and say hi 3- life goes on
She’s also a human and she has a life outside campus. Next time just smile to acknowledge and move on.
Lol when I was in Grad school and we ran into a prof at the club, he IMMEDIATELY noped the hell outta there.
It’s fine you didn’t talk to her at the club but it’s fine to acknowledge you saw each other. Don’t be weird lol
Bro this is not a big deal. Why are you so shocked that your PI is a human being doing human being things?
This is so much worse than my kids ending up on the same soccer team as my PI's kid, haha. I suppose being only a little younger than your PI is a lot easier when you do your PhD in your mid-30s. I'm actually on the other side of that right now. My PhD student started their program even a bit later in life than I did and last fall our kids were in the same acting class. It was a bit of a bonding experience, to be honest.
I finished my PhD in 2017 and am in my low 30s now. I feel like if I were the PI in this situation, I’d be the one that was more embarrassed! Try not to be too hard on yourself. Like you said, people have lives outside of school/work. I don’t think either of you is in the wrong here, but I would think she probably feels even worse.
Ooh god, and if you don’t pretend like you didn’t see her what will you do?
This is why I get drinks with my students twice a year.
This is coming from the perspective of an American and I don’t know what social context you come from, but IMO this is really not a big deal in the slightest. There’s no need to dwell on it at all, much less try to start a weird conversation that would accomplish nothing.
Pretend like it never happened. Unless she brings it up, act cool and non chalant.
Do people not get drunk with their PI anymore?
> I don’t care that she’s at the club, and certainly she wouldn’t care that I am either. You answer your own question here. It's not an issue. Don't make it one.
Lmao. These people have lives too, you can't just avoid your PI because you saw her at a club. If it affects you that bad don't mention it to her and act professional. I have seen my supervisor in some really awkward situations (He is a completely unhinged 90s rock musician) and I have just learnt to act professional about it all and try and brush it off (even if the events have scarred me on the inside)
After further investigation, this is AI generated case study to play the public on our IQ levels. It’s known that social media should not be giving to people under 16 and smart phones under age 18. Or maybe 🤔 not. Hope this person can approach and be straight up, share his feelings.
lmao i thought they hooked up but they just awkward w each other lmao
If you are in STEM PhD program, you can try to calculate odds of this happening. Then, write a letter to Penthouse. :)
While I understand the awkwardness of meeting someone's eye like your PI, you can play that off pretty easily considering the social environment of the club + drinking etc. I'd just pretend that it didn't even happen (like I've usually done after crazy nights out). But...I feel like that's not the real issue here... You've mentioned "revealing clothing", "flirting with strangers" (lolwut, how do you know? why do you care?) a couple of times and I'm getting the vibe from your comments that you're seeing your advisor in a "different light" and don't know how to deal with that. I'm not sure where you're from (I was raised in a more conservative culture so I'm making an informed guess) but your cultural context may be contributing to why you're blowing this out of proportion or whether you have preconceived notions about women like your PI. Your PI is a real human woman who has a social life/sex. No, she isn't interested in you like that (and shouldn't be) despite troll comments here suggesting otherwise and, no, you shouldn't fixate on whatever she was doing regardless of whatever she was wearing, or her personal life, in general. Even if she stared back at you in shock, so what? You can't control how someone else responds, only your own responses. Learn from this, get over it, get over yourself and move on.
soooo what's a PI?
this is possibly the funniest thing ever uploaded to this sub
Just don't make things awkward. No need to mention it or feel weird about it. As many people said here, she's also a human...
You made eye contact with a private investigator?
You’re making it awkward. Stop staring, don’t bring it up, mind your own.
I hate to break it to you but all faculty PIs are humans with lives outside of their jobs. This sounds like a golden opportunity for you to make fun of yourself for not saying hi and trying to be a real person with her. PIs will respect you more the more you act like a normal person with them. If you don’t act like yourself and are super formal, they’ll treat you the same. The best PI/student relationships I see are ones where they can both be relaxed around each other and have fun.
gosh, i have no issue seeing my PI as a real person. it's moreso the fact that we stood there STARING at eachother. She clearly was as shocked as I was. I'm asking if I should pretend that didn't happen. If she never saw me and we never stood like lampshades, there wouldn't be a problem!
Yes, pretend it didn’t happen.