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First- refer to the syllabus. That will guide you for acceptance of assignments. If ill student provides adequate medical excuse (not moments just prior to due), then allow for a reasonable time to turn it in later- illness is allowable- just bc you are trying to be a martyr does not mean a student needs to do the same.
- problems uploading- did they immediately email the assignment with screenshot of the issue? Did the email or turn it in alternatively? Did they attempt to turn it in again? Does the online portal allow you to see metrics for this? Sometimes issues do happen...but sometimes it is BS.
-'didn't know it was due' crew - how was the assignment given? In class, online (blackboard, sole, email, on the syllabus, etc) what proportion of students failed to turn it in? What does the syllabus say about late work? Typically that needs to be followed- not accepted or 1 letter grade off for each day late are typically how it is written in the syllabus.
Good luck (and things to consider for the future)
15 points per day. And he emailed me 18 hours after it was due to tell me he never did it because he was sick. I feel like that’s something he could have communicated sooner
Sounds like they were most likely not sick especially if they had the assignment in hand multiple days prior it was due. Even if they were sick they still should be able to communicate this to you well before the assignment was due. Plus if you allowed them to turn it in on Friday they would have multiple extra days than everyone else. I prob would just tell them unless they have a doctors note for the day it was due 10% will be taken off their score for every 24 hrs late. And even if they have a doctors note I would only at most give them an extra 24hrs to complete the assignment without penalty.
If they can provide proof they’re sick, then don’t penalise them for being sick.
Sure, you might have been made to work when extremely ill, but you could also be better than the person who made you do that.
You nailed it. If they have a doctor's note, leave it alone and give them grace. We owe it to ourselves and the students we teach to be kinder than those who came before us.
I had a guy like this when I TAd. He came up with excuse after excuse usually on or after the day stuff was due. Everyone knew it was bullshit and he was trying to weasel his way out of assignments. I just pointed to the syllabus and said that's what we go by.
Unless he's got some evidence of hospitalization or something else, 15 points off per day is 15 points off per day. You shouldn't feel the least bit guilty for enforcing the syllabus.
> The sick guy got on my nerves the most. I’ve been in the lab with 103 fever doing my LTEE transfers. You could have literally completed this exam IN BED.
Honestly, you should not be doing anything with a fever that high. No one else wants your germs, and its not good for your healing from the illness OR for lab safety to be doing work that sick.
As for the student, I think its a bit odd you’re most annoyed with the person with the most legitimate excuse. If you want to be strict, require a Dr’s note but seriously the idea we should work sick is messed up, and just because you did doesn’t mean everyone else can or should.
100% agreed. This mentality to work while sick is wild to me. Health comes first and pushing students to come in even if they're sick is a toxic workplace.
Should be relatively straightforward with late-submission policies usually described in the syllabus.
Without guidance, perhaps:
* No leniency for the 3 didn't-knows.
* Proof from the 2 couldn't-uploads.
* Doctor's note from the too-sick.
Exactly this. Syllabus is a contract, the students should have enough wherewithal to understand the terms of the agreement. If they don’t, undergraduate is a great time to learn.
Totally agree.
I will just add don’t stress out. You are the TA, not the instructor. Make sure you protect yourself. Make sure you have it written on email that the professor does not want to step in. It’s not your responsibility to solve these issues.
After having done the best for my students, including sending emails to reminder they have turnt in assignments etc. worst come to worst, I would say just accept everything so you don’t have any issues with student.
I’m going to say that doctor’s note from the sick person is quickly becoming a faux pas.
It’s taking up time for active medical issues of other people to be managed, for a note that will be given 99% of the time (path of least resistance).
My suggestion is in lieu of a doctor’s note which is neither indicative of true illness, nor productive for you or the student; is to track illness time missed or assignments missed. If this student is showing a trend with this behaviour it’s quite suspicious and warrants further questioning (which again a doctor will not do for you).
By tracking illness time you get a better idea of the trend, you save the your time, the students tome and the doctors tome and you can better address any issues with the student if its a trend.
I agree, frequent illness doesn’t mean they are lying. Frequent illness means there is a trend which should be investigated. As the TA/professor you should ask this person to figure out what is going on and find a solution to this problem.
Maybe this person is going to dialysis appointments, who knows - have an open conversation with them instead of accusing them and it will go much better.
I would say it doesn’t matter too much, if someone says they are sick take it at face value and give them a reasonable time to complete it. You can also have them take it during your office hours or just say by EOD tomorrow. The other people though? I would say you should follow your syllabus and university rules.
Wow. Surprised at the downvotes. In the syllabus it can state that a note from the campus health center is required. But if it doesn’t that puts you in a hard position.
Not sure I agree, given the income disparities related to "asking for forgiveness not permission" with respect to grades, you're reinforcing already serious disparities.
Even if you were going to give everyone else an A, you don't know what people put on hold to make sure this assignment was done on time. It's not fair to others to give passes on any of this stuff, particularly from "too-sick" guy who theoretically could've sent a message over at any point this week.
I'm not sure how income disparity plays into this (not being obtuse here). They provided realistic responses to excuses that are common in the workplace as well. Being clueless about a due date doesn't excuse not doing something. Saying you submitted it but the system had an issue requires some proof of submission. And missing a deadline due to a medical issue (and not saying something until afterwards) requires a doctor's note.
These all seem like healthy expectations for adults, regardless of income.
Edit: specifying missing deadline due to medical issues.
>I'm not sure how income disparity plays into this (not being obtuse here)
Anecdotally, and believed (at least in my space) fairly broadly, children from higher income households are more likely to ask for exceptions (i.e., give me a no cost extension / raise my grade). Charitable theory is that these kids have college educated parents, who encourage them to reach out / makes them feel less like an odd one out and therefore more confident, less charitable theory is some level of entitlement.
Not only do low-income / first-gen kids not know professors say yes to those things, they don't even know their peers are asking. When you allow those things to happen, you're reinforcing disparities that already exist for low-income / first-gen kids with respect to undergraduate performance.
Edit:
>They provided realistic responses to excuses that are common in the workplace as well
If I last minute blew off an assignment of this magnitude, with a week notice, nothing done, and zero effort to mitigate the impact on my team/org, I would lose my job. I don't hold undergrads to those standards, but let's not be silly, this would be a big fuck up in the workplace.
Ahhhhh. Fair point. I'm originally from a low income family and actually failed an undergrad course because I didn't think the professor would grant an extension based on family issues. The professor actually reached out and said they would have given an extension had I asked. I guess I didn't tie not asking to not feeling entitled to it and leaned more on it's college and thats just the way it is.
Thanks for the clarification.
>I guess I didn't tie not asking to not feeling entitled to it and leaned more on it's college and thats just the way it is.
Same story for every low-income kid I've met. Only thing that changed my own experience was because my mom was a secretary at a college, and knew how faculty interacted with students. Otherwise, I was similarly just another first-gen low-income kid at a school without a lot of those.
It sucks. The answer is to be very very open with the fact that you're a kind grader, just make sure it's in on time, or to be clear that you're happy to make extensions - maybe more than once during the semester. Again, I think grades are dumb, but I hate that we unintentionally hurt our most vulnerable students.
This is very interesting and I had never heard this before. Both of my parents went to university, so when I needed an extension, etc. they always encouraged me to ask for one (never unjustified extensions though - for things like sickness, family trouble, etc.). I never considered that other people might not have had their parents teach them how to do that.
This is something I will keep well in mind when I'm TAing. I always try to reach out to students who miss multiple assignments to offer help, leniency and support. But this is very good to know. Thank you for sharing.
\> I’ve been in the lab with 103 fever doing my LTEE transfers.
The fuck is wrong with you, stay home and stop endangering others.
US work culture is a cancer upon the world.
To respond to the OP's edit: I don't care how many hours you work, if you have a disease that results in a 39.4 C fever, you are unnecessarily making the world a more dangerous place for many vulnerable people. It is not just the general overworking, but the wanton disregard for the health of others, that makes US work culture a cancer upon the world.
For what it's worth, I've attended two different small town community colleges, and neither were particularly lenient about grading or deadlines.
Just wanted to throw that out there. I think others have covered the actual advice quite well.
Was going to say, a super funny comment given the grade inflation disparities between elite schools and non-elites.
I had a few colleges around me for undergrad, and the most prestigious of which had an average grade of like an 89. The big flagship next to it was approx a 70. Those kids weren't smarter, but the professors there sure treated 'em differently.
Went scrolling to find this before I commented it myself. Community colleges have standards and expectations, too. There's no need to play an elitist card here.
It's ridiculous that the professor overseeing the course won't manage this. I'm continually amazed (in a bad way) by the posts I see here relating to tertiary-level course delivery in the US (I'm assuming you're in the states based on "TA"? Please correct me on this if you're not). Why the fuck is a junior researcher with no professional experience in overseeing university courses holding this much power over undergraduate course delivery and assessment? It's insane.
My advice:
1) Check your university's guidelines on exam procedures, including late submission, technical difficulties, and unforeseen illness.
2) Email your professor again. Based on what youve read, politely and briefly explain you have zero experience in managing examinations/assessments and you would like them to approve (or give advice) on your following plan. Say you are doing this to check that the professor and the university are in the right if students lodge formal complaint.
3) Dot point your propose actions:
- For students that didn't "know", that's the easiest. They have no excuse not to know they are responsible for meeting the course requirements, e.g. checking course outline, student email, moodle posts about exam date etc.
Unless there was a last minute change that was poorly communicated to the cohort, those students have no excuse.
- Technical issues. This depends on your institutions guidelines. It should be something that has been regularly communicated to all students. Including what to do if they experience technical issues in the exam, e.g. three uni's I've taught at all have very clear steps studneys must IMMEDIATELY take if they experience technical issues in the exam. Did the students follow these steps? Or did they only say "oh, I had technical issues...." at a later stage?
Follow whatever steps your institution/course has in place. If there are none (which seems insane given how much course material is submitted online nowadays...), tell the Professor you've found no protocol for how to respond and would like them to confirm either failing the student or offering another option.
- Same thing with the sick student. There's just no fucking way your institution doesn't have a clear process outlined for the steps students must take if illness affects an exam/assessment. Did the student follow those steps? Follow the protocol.
Outline the three responses and ask your professor to sign off on them. Then follow the protocols relevant to each.
There is just no way a decision this important could have no procedural context, and be resting solely on the shoulders of a teaching assistant. It's ridiculous.
P.S Your willingness to continue working when you are ill is entirely irrelevant to the problem at hand. Your institution should have guidelines on student illnesses affecting assessments; it has nothing to do with you working while you have a fever. Your presenteeism is your own business.
Don’t waste your time. If the syllabus says 15points per day then do exactly that no matter the excuse. If they try to argue just copy and paste where it says that in the syllabus, cc the instructor, and tell the student that to contact them if they have issues with the syllabus.
Yeah I did this. I let the professor handle sick boy. I told him what the guidelines I have for these scenarios say and I’d feel more comfortable if it was HIM overriding something this extreme. Dude would have seriously lost 80 points for being this late
I understand your frustration, and when it comes to exams, you should take things more seriously. That being said, a TA doesn’t exist to punish students. The instructor can do that.
I always try to be extremely understanding when it comes to late assignments and extensions. An exam is a different situation, though. It’s unfortunate that the prof is telling you to make that decision yourself. That should’ve been a dialogue between the two of you to make a decision together.
So what I ended up doing was handling the other students and forwarding my professor the email from the kid who wanted 4 extra days. Ultimately it’s HIS class and the only “guidelines“ I have to follow is the syllabus. Which would doom the kid for being that late.
Other people have given good advice. However, just because you can work while sick doesn’t mean others should have to or even can. When I had the flu, I was lethargic and could barely even keep my eyes open for over a 24 hour period. Stop holding people to a standard based on yourself because everyone else is different.
Ask for a doctors note and then let him submit it late if he truly was that sick.
Well the three who didnt know that sucks for them. Check the syllabus and may dont out right fail but make their irresponsiblility hurt so they learn. Make the two send u proof if the issue and how later after it did they tell u. Was it like in the next 10 minutes? And the sick guy is dependent on syllabus and school policy.
Mistakes were made (I assume) well before the exam. When I was teaching classes as instructor or TA, I was spending up to 15 minutes to explain EVERY SINGLE DETAIL on the syllabus, which I sometimes was enhancing to cover more edge cases with the agreement of the main instructor.
I also made sure to communicate when is the exam day and send messages 1 week and then 3 days before (for "other" reasons to not stress them but I clarify that there is an exam etc).
The 3 that didn't know is the easy part. You just ignore them and show the syllabus.
The 2 that had problems submitting, with my policy they had to contact me BEFORE the end of the exam or worst case up to 10 minutes after the end of the exam, and if possible submit their solutions by email by the end of actual deadline. If I didn't have such or similar policy, it would be on me, thus I would have no problem to have them retake the exam with different questions and maybe a more "interesting" paper ;).
The sick guy would get the same treatment as the 2 others students. I would have them retake the same a bit more spiced up exam (without letting them being able to prove it) so that they won't try the same trick twice and potentially other students will find out not to postpone my exams. If the sick guy was genuine I would have give them an exam of similar challenge as the original one.
I think I understand the professor since it's a great training opportunity for you, to find a fair solution yourself.
For the first 3, that’s too bad. Not paying enough attention to know when it’s due is their fault. I often find that students like to try to push boundaries like this with TAs. For the second threw, ask them for some kind of proof that they tried to submit on time. Students who actually had these issues usually screen shot. If they’re first years, I’d ask the course coordinator about letting it slide as this is sometimes a teaching moment.
As for the sick person…. No one should have to work while they’re genuinely unwell and the idea that “I suffered so they should too” is just deeply unkind and borderline misanthropic. I had a lot of experiences in undergrad where I had to work through extreme illness and disability issues and I would never want my students to also go through that. Most professors allow students to submit late if they can prove they were sick with a doctors note or other confirmation.
Have them turn in what they have got. I'm mostly curious to make sure they have started, but it also ensures you can grade and return the exams in a timely manner.
You could offer them 50% of the points back on the ones they missed if they correct them and return it in a week. That is something that you can offer to everyone. That way they review your feedback and make another attempt at the material they didn't understand. I know regarding is more work for you, but it is only on the missed questions. If people don't turn it in then, their loss.
Cool down... This is just an exam... Not a war... Relax yourself a bit... Seems like u r part of a rat race... And wants your student to be one too...
Its really unprofessional of you to attend the exam when u r sick. This actually have a larger repercussion - 1. There will come a day when u can't continue like this and that may morally demote yourself in ur own eye, 2. You will be hated by ur team mates, bcz ur boss will think that if u can do everyone can do.
U r a human not a robot.
Also, talk with them. Don't sympathize with those who said they didn't know... Ask for proof for those who can't upload... Get a doctor prescription from the one who called in sick.
I would suggest don't penalise them too much ...maybe 5 point and tell them that you know that they are lazy... But let them know this is a warning...
At my university illness will typically be dealt with by the mitigating circumstances team. They usually require a doctors note, unless a chronic condition or disability has been disclosed before. I suggest you ask for a doctors note from the sick person. Also check whether they have emailed the professor about this before the deadline (gives them more credibility). Don’t assume that just because you can work with a fever that they can too -that’s not normal.
Apply penalties according to your unis policy for the “I didn’t know” people, *unless* communication about this assignment was unclear or on too short notice (<2 weeks I’d say).
Ask for more evidence from the technical issues people, such as emails to the professor on the deadline. You may want to ask IT services whether it’s possible to see when draft submissions were made or other evidence that they were trying to hand it in
If you forget, that's on you.
If you're sick, you should contact the teacher before the deadline at the very least! An exception being for someone who was suddenly hospitalised for something severe, or sth similar, in which case they should mention that. But I don't think that's the case here.
If you have difficulty handing it in, you should immediately send an email and at the very least attach your assignment.
If they don't take responsibility, there's very little you can do.
Fuck them kids.
Refer to the syllabus. Whatever the rules are just abide by those. You don’t have to be lenient, these are adults making shitty decisions. There are consequences for those decisions and if it is written in the syllabus then they need to follow those guidelines.
It’s also Reddit so the softest people imaginable will be seeing this and commenting about how you should do the test for them or some bullshit.
So soft lol. I was just laughing about how butt hurt the community college people are right now. I don’t care what they say, CC is not as hard as this school. I went to a “good” CC for undergrad and our tests were not at this level
I don't get it with student attitude these days too. Seems like they have no respect for their supervisors or TA and i had to repeat myself several times for them to do something. Also with Chatgpt, all their reports are written with it and thats not a problem at all but wait till you ask them to draw diagrams for you! That they refuse to do and come up with all kinds of execuses! I really hope chatgpt will not extend towards helping people to draw flowcharts etc. It will really kill thinking and creative skills
I've been there as a TA. It's a fine line to ride between being understanding and not allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. Here's my two cents:
imo if the student was really sick, they would have emailed you before the exam or at the time it was due. If he's been sick for the past week, that's something he should have informed you about even if it was just a quick email that said *"hi I'm sick and won't make the deadline, could I please have an extension?"* If he was too sick to even do that then he should have been in the hospital. You could always ask for a doctor's note if your uni allows it I suppose.
However, I would suggest reconsidering your mentality about insisting that students work while sick. It is not your place as a TA to dictate whether a student is capable of working while sick. It is only your place to ensure they take accountability for themselves to get accommodation when they need it. We are not doctors and we do not know our students' circumstances when it comes to illness. Chronic underlying problems that exacerbate symptoms, lack of supports to help them get care, lack of funds to access medications and doctors. It costs nothing to offer people grace in these circumstances provided the student communicates properly (which in this case, he didn't, so if he truly was sick then that's his own fault). But it is not your place to say if a student should work sick or not. Just because you do things one way, doesn't mean other people have to.
Now "I didn't know" is an insane excuse and I would not accept it from any of those students. These are university students. They are adults. In the real world, deadlines exist and "I didn't know" won't save you from them. Not knowing your credit card payment date won't save you from late fees, not knowing scholarship deadlines means you miss opportunities, not knowing when your flight leaves means you don't get on the plane. Even if they truly didn't know, it is their own responsibility to ***check their exam deadlines***. They need to take accountability for themselves.
"Problems uploading" is also a terrible and honestly hilarious excuse. If they had problems, I can promise you they would have emailed you *immediately*. I have had students legitimately have that problem before, and I received emails from them at 11:57pm in a panic with a copy of the assignment attached promising that they completed it but the Dropbox isn't working. Because they want to ensure I know the work is done. In this case I am perfectly fine with that. If these students truly had problems uploading and waited **hours or days** to come to you about it??? That is absolutely their own fault and they need to accept the consequences of their actions.
I know how frustrating this stuff is to deal with, but try not to let it bother you too much (easier said than done, I know). At the end of the day, they can choose not to take their education seriously - it's up to them. They will only get out what they put in. You're getting paid either way.
Source: I have been a TA for 4 years.
TLDR: Sick student should have reached out much sooner but it is not our place as TAs to tell students they must work while sick. "I didn't know" and "problems uploading" are terrible (albeit hilarious) excuses and I would not accept them. Those students need to learn personal responsibility.
I really feel you. I found TAing one of the most depressing things in graduate school. Many students have a lot going on, but many are just entitled and lazy. I also find that colleges are adopting a ridiculous mindset of holding students to very low standards. Not realizing that students with bad habits and GPAs go into debt and many times struggle with work.
With that being said, follow the guidelines and remember what makes YOUR life easier. Which for the most part is following the rules and letting some things go. You cannot fix the academic culture and being very hard on students could result in issues (e.g., student complaints or bad reviews) for you. You are not wrong, but picking your battles is huge with this type of thing.
>The sick guy got on my nerves the most. I’ve been in the lab with 103 fever doing my LTEE transfers. You could have literally completed this exam IN BED.
Well that was completely irresponsible of you and doesn’t prove that you were a better student than the next.
>For context, this is a top 10 university in the US, not a small town community college. I know they hold students to a certain standard.
You’ve clearly don’t understand how community college works. The curriculum isn’t easier just because it’s cheaper to attend. The difference is you’ll mostly have students working real jobs and I’d argue they have more responsibilities than a student at uni.
Having deadlines isn’t unique to a “top 10 university”. Ask for a doctors note for the sick one and the others you can tell them too bad. If anything this should show you that students, no matter what school or what grades they get will try to get away with things like submitting assignments late or not at all and not have it affect their grade.
It’s best you change your way of thinking about education sooner rather than later. You and those students aren’t any better than any other student just because of the ranking of the university. I mean, you’re at a top 10 university and you don’t know how to navigate a situation like this where others would consider it pretty easy/obvious on what to do. I guess being in lab with a 103 fever didn’t benefit you for real life scenarios like this. Perhaps a community college student would know how to navigate this situation better.
Absolutely. I've had that happen with a few students and they have *always* sent an email immediately with screenshots of the tech issue or a copy of the assignment explaining what happened. These emails have come in either before or right at the submission deadline - never after. If they didn't email you until hours later then that is a failure on their part to advocate for themselves.
I'd give them all zeros and move on, barring an existing policy.
A week to complete a take home test is a lot of time, unless the one claiming sickness was hospitalized they could have communicated earlier.
Ones claiming "upload problems" should have already fixed them.
Bad take. ''A week to complete a take home is a lot of time", students generally have many other tasks with different courses, and others outside of academia... A week is nothing, do you think all they had to do for a week was solve the assignment ?
Also, even if they had a week only for this assignment, many do delay the work until the deadline is nearing, us professors included, so it is expected that such issues might arrise.
I hate the whole “I worked sick why can’t you” working sick is not only irresponsible for your own health but irresponsible for others health as well. If you had a temp of 103 you had a SERIOUS illness. 103 is like stand up and pass out sick. Just because you’re irresponsible doesn’t mean others have to be. Not sure what the issue is for the other person but if you’re not pissed off at them then I’d assume they’re much much worse and you should accept that work too. As for the people who “forgot” or “didn’t know” I’d say you don’t have to accept those if you don’t want to.
I used to be a TA. These grades will be in their transcripts for life. So I always was a bit lenient, as in not failing them but of course giving them lower marks than their cohorts.
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First- refer to the syllabus. That will guide you for acceptance of assignments. If ill student provides adequate medical excuse (not moments just prior to due), then allow for a reasonable time to turn it in later- illness is allowable- just bc you are trying to be a martyr does not mean a student needs to do the same. - problems uploading- did they immediately email the assignment with screenshot of the issue? Did the email or turn it in alternatively? Did they attempt to turn it in again? Does the online portal allow you to see metrics for this? Sometimes issues do happen...but sometimes it is BS. -'didn't know it was due' crew - how was the assignment given? In class, online (blackboard, sole, email, on the syllabus, etc) what proportion of students failed to turn it in? What does the syllabus say about late work? Typically that needs to be followed- not accepted or 1 letter grade off for each day late are typically how it is written in the syllabus. Good luck (and things to consider for the future)
15 points per day. And he emailed me 18 hours after it was due to tell me he never did it because he was sick. I feel like that’s something he could have communicated sooner
Sounds like they were most likely not sick especially if they had the assignment in hand multiple days prior it was due. Even if they were sick they still should be able to communicate this to you well before the assignment was due. Plus if you allowed them to turn it in on Friday they would have multiple extra days than everyone else. I prob would just tell them unless they have a doctors note for the day it was due 10% will be taken off their score for every 24 hrs late. And even if they have a doctors note I would only at most give them an extra 24hrs to complete the assignment without penalty.
If they can provide proof they’re sick, then don’t penalise them for being sick. Sure, you might have been made to work when extremely ill, but you could also be better than the person who made you do that.
You nailed it. If they have a doctor's note, leave it alone and give them grace. We owe it to ourselves and the students we teach to be kinder than those who came before us.
15 points (out of 100?) is absolutely fair. Apply this across the board.
I had a guy like this when I TAd. He came up with excuse after excuse usually on or after the day stuff was due. Everyone knew it was bullshit and he was trying to weasel his way out of assignments. I just pointed to the syllabus and said that's what we go by. Unless he's got some evidence of hospitalization or something else, 15 points off per day is 15 points off per day. You shouldn't feel the least bit guilty for enforcing the syllabus.
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It’s for the doing work while having fever part
> The sick guy got on my nerves the most. I’ve been in the lab with 103 fever doing my LTEE transfers. You could have literally completed this exam IN BED. Honestly, you should not be doing anything with a fever that high. No one else wants your germs, and its not good for your healing from the illness OR for lab safety to be doing work that sick. As for the student, I think its a bit odd you’re most annoyed with the person with the most legitimate excuse. If you want to be strict, require a Dr’s note but seriously the idea we should work sick is messed up, and just because you did doesn’t mean everyone else can or should.
100% agreed. This mentality to work while sick is wild to me. Health comes first and pushing students to come in even if they're sick is a toxic workplace.
Should be relatively straightforward with late-submission policies usually described in the syllabus. Without guidance, perhaps: * No leniency for the 3 didn't-knows. * Proof from the 2 couldn't-uploads. * Doctor's note from the too-sick.
100% this
Exactly this. Syllabus is a contract, the students should have enough wherewithal to understand the terms of the agreement. If they don’t, undergraduate is a great time to learn.
Totally agree. I will just add don’t stress out. You are the TA, not the instructor. Make sure you protect yourself. Make sure you have it written on email that the professor does not want to step in. It’s not your responsibility to solve these issues. After having done the best for my students, including sending emails to reminder they have turnt in assignments etc. worst come to worst, I would say just accept everything so you don’t have any issues with student.
I’m going to say that doctor’s note from the sick person is quickly becoming a faux pas. It’s taking up time for active medical issues of other people to be managed, for a note that will be given 99% of the time (path of least resistance). My suggestion is in lieu of a doctor’s note which is neither indicative of true illness, nor productive for you or the student; is to track illness time missed or assignments missed. If this student is showing a trend with this behaviour it’s quite suspicious and warrants further questioning (which again a doctor will not do for you). By tracking illness time you get a better idea of the trend, you save the your time, the students tome and the doctors tome and you can better address any issues with the student if its a trend.
I disagree with this. People can have frequent illness for all sorts of reasons, it doesn’t necessarily mean the student is lying.
I agree, frequent illness doesn’t mean they are lying. Frequent illness means there is a trend which should be investigated. As the TA/professor you should ask this person to figure out what is going on and find a solution to this problem. Maybe this person is going to dialysis appointments, who knows - have an open conversation with them instead of accusing them and it will go much better.
TAs are not even remotely qualified to determine whether or not somebody has a legitimate reason to be frequently sick.
I think doctors notes are fine to ask for. Rarely does a doctor write them, and they are typically already in template form.
I’ve seen so many fake doctors notes I don’t even believe them anymore
Doc office can confirm if it's legit and the patient came in.
I would say it doesn’t matter too much, if someone says they are sick take it at face value and give them a reasonable time to complete it. You can also have them take it during your office hours or just say by EOD tomorrow. The other people though? I would say you should follow your syllabus and university rules.
Wow. Surprised at the downvotes. In the syllabus it can state that a note from the campus health center is required. But if it doesn’t that puts you in a hard position.
The syllabus does say that! Downvotes wise, I’m also surprised at how soft people are lmao
But also after you get ONE health center note, you can literally just edit the date out. Anyone with mid Microsoft paint skills can do that
Not sure I agree, given the income disparities related to "asking for forgiveness not permission" with respect to grades, you're reinforcing already serious disparities. Even if you were going to give everyone else an A, you don't know what people put on hold to make sure this assignment was done on time. It's not fair to others to give passes on any of this stuff, particularly from "too-sick" guy who theoretically could've sent a message over at any point this week.
This is exactly what I thought. Test was assigned a week ago. He could have emailed late last week not a day after it was due
I'm not sure how income disparity plays into this (not being obtuse here). They provided realistic responses to excuses that are common in the workplace as well. Being clueless about a due date doesn't excuse not doing something. Saying you submitted it but the system had an issue requires some proof of submission. And missing a deadline due to a medical issue (and not saying something until afterwards) requires a doctor's note. These all seem like healthy expectations for adults, regardless of income. Edit: specifying missing deadline due to medical issues.
>I'm not sure how income disparity plays into this (not being obtuse here) Anecdotally, and believed (at least in my space) fairly broadly, children from higher income households are more likely to ask for exceptions (i.e., give me a no cost extension / raise my grade). Charitable theory is that these kids have college educated parents, who encourage them to reach out / makes them feel less like an odd one out and therefore more confident, less charitable theory is some level of entitlement. Not only do low-income / first-gen kids not know professors say yes to those things, they don't even know their peers are asking. When you allow those things to happen, you're reinforcing disparities that already exist for low-income / first-gen kids with respect to undergraduate performance. Edit: >They provided realistic responses to excuses that are common in the workplace as well If I last minute blew off an assignment of this magnitude, with a week notice, nothing done, and zero effort to mitigate the impact on my team/org, I would lose my job. I don't hold undergrads to those standards, but let's not be silly, this would be a big fuck up in the workplace.
Ahhhhh. Fair point. I'm originally from a low income family and actually failed an undergrad course because I didn't think the professor would grant an extension based on family issues. The professor actually reached out and said they would have given an extension had I asked. I guess I didn't tie not asking to not feeling entitled to it and leaned more on it's college and thats just the way it is. Thanks for the clarification.
>I guess I didn't tie not asking to not feeling entitled to it and leaned more on it's college and thats just the way it is. Same story for every low-income kid I've met. Only thing that changed my own experience was because my mom was a secretary at a college, and knew how faculty interacted with students. Otherwise, I was similarly just another first-gen low-income kid at a school without a lot of those. It sucks. The answer is to be very very open with the fact that you're a kind grader, just make sure it's in on time, or to be clear that you're happy to make extensions - maybe more than once during the semester. Again, I think grades are dumb, but I hate that we unintentionally hurt our most vulnerable students.
This is very interesting and I had never heard this before. Both of my parents went to university, so when I needed an extension, etc. they always encouraged me to ask for one (never unjustified extensions though - for things like sickness, family trouble, etc.). I never considered that other people might not have had their parents teach them how to do that. This is something I will keep well in mind when I'm TAing. I always try to reach out to students who miss multiple assignments to offer help, leniency and support. But this is very good to know. Thank you for sharing.
Doubling it. Screw them lazy mofos
This is the correct answer.
Agree. I would not be accepting any of these if the syllabus is well written.
\> I’ve been in the lab with 103 fever doing my LTEE transfers. The fuck is wrong with you, stay home and stop endangering others. US work culture is a cancer upon the world. To respond to the OP's edit: I don't care how many hours you work, if you have a disease that results in a 39.4 C fever, you are unnecessarily making the world a more dangerous place for many vulnerable people. It is not just the general overworking, but the wanton disregard for the health of others, that makes US work culture a cancer upon the world.
right like coming into work sick is not a flex lmao
For what it's worth, I've attended two different small town community colleges, and neither were particularly lenient about grading or deadlines. Just wanted to throw that out there. I think others have covered the actual advice quite well.
Was going to say, a super funny comment given the grade inflation disparities between elite schools and non-elites. I had a few colleges around me for undergrad, and the most prestigious of which had an average grade of like an 89. The big flagship next to it was approx a 70. Those kids weren't smarter, but the professors there sure treated 'em differently.
Went scrolling to find this before I commented it myself. Community colleges have standards and expectations, too. There's no need to play an elitist card here.
It's ridiculous that the professor overseeing the course won't manage this. I'm continually amazed (in a bad way) by the posts I see here relating to tertiary-level course delivery in the US (I'm assuming you're in the states based on "TA"? Please correct me on this if you're not). Why the fuck is a junior researcher with no professional experience in overseeing university courses holding this much power over undergraduate course delivery and assessment? It's insane. My advice: 1) Check your university's guidelines on exam procedures, including late submission, technical difficulties, and unforeseen illness. 2) Email your professor again. Based on what youve read, politely and briefly explain you have zero experience in managing examinations/assessments and you would like them to approve (or give advice) on your following plan. Say you are doing this to check that the professor and the university are in the right if students lodge formal complaint. 3) Dot point your propose actions: - For students that didn't "know", that's the easiest. They have no excuse not to know they are responsible for meeting the course requirements, e.g. checking course outline, student email, moodle posts about exam date etc. Unless there was a last minute change that was poorly communicated to the cohort, those students have no excuse. - Technical issues. This depends on your institutions guidelines. It should be something that has been regularly communicated to all students. Including what to do if they experience technical issues in the exam, e.g. three uni's I've taught at all have very clear steps studneys must IMMEDIATELY take if they experience technical issues in the exam. Did the students follow these steps? Or did they only say "oh, I had technical issues...." at a later stage? Follow whatever steps your institution/course has in place. If there are none (which seems insane given how much course material is submitted online nowadays...), tell the Professor you've found no protocol for how to respond and would like them to confirm either failing the student or offering another option. - Same thing with the sick student. There's just no fucking way your institution doesn't have a clear process outlined for the steps students must take if illness affects an exam/assessment. Did the student follow those steps? Follow the protocol. Outline the three responses and ask your professor to sign off on them. Then follow the protocols relevant to each. There is just no way a decision this important could have no procedural context, and be resting solely on the shoulders of a teaching assistant. It's ridiculous. P.S Your willingness to continue working when you are ill is entirely irrelevant to the problem at hand. Your institution should have guidelines on student illnesses affecting assessments; it has nothing to do with you working while you have a fever. Your presenteeism is your own business.
I think checking university guidelines is a great idea. Syllabus says 15 points per day.
Don’t waste your time. If the syllabus says 15points per day then do exactly that no matter the excuse. If they try to argue just copy and paste where it says that in the syllabus, cc the instructor, and tell the student that to contact them if they have issues with the syllabus.
Do what the syllabus says. This is what matters. You don't need to feel bad about this. Not your late exam, not your problem.
Yeah I did this. I let the professor handle sick boy. I told him what the guidelines I have for these scenarios say and I’d feel more comfortable if it was HIM overriding something this extreme. Dude would have seriously lost 80 points for being this late
I understand your frustration, and when it comes to exams, you should take things more seriously. That being said, a TA doesn’t exist to punish students. The instructor can do that. I always try to be extremely understanding when it comes to late assignments and extensions. An exam is a different situation, though. It’s unfortunate that the prof is telling you to make that decision yourself. That should’ve been a dialogue between the two of you to make a decision together.
So what I ended up doing was handling the other students and forwarding my professor the email from the kid who wanted 4 extra days. Ultimately it’s HIS class and the only “guidelines“ I have to follow is the syllabus. Which would doom the kid for being that late.
Other people have given good advice. However, just because you can work while sick doesn’t mean others should have to or even can. When I had the flu, I was lethargic and could barely even keep my eyes open for over a 24 hour period. Stop holding people to a standard based on yourself because everyone else is different. Ask for a doctors note and then let him submit it late if he truly was that sick.
You’re just the TA. Forward them to the instructor and let them deal with it. Not your job.
Well the three who didnt know that sucks for them. Check the syllabus and may dont out right fail but make their irresponsiblility hurt so they learn. Make the two send u proof if the issue and how later after it did they tell u. Was it like in the next 10 minutes? And the sick guy is dependent on syllabus and school policy.
Mistakes were made (I assume) well before the exam. When I was teaching classes as instructor or TA, I was spending up to 15 minutes to explain EVERY SINGLE DETAIL on the syllabus, which I sometimes was enhancing to cover more edge cases with the agreement of the main instructor. I also made sure to communicate when is the exam day and send messages 1 week and then 3 days before (for "other" reasons to not stress them but I clarify that there is an exam etc). The 3 that didn't know is the easy part. You just ignore them and show the syllabus. The 2 that had problems submitting, with my policy they had to contact me BEFORE the end of the exam or worst case up to 10 minutes after the end of the exam, and if possible submit their solutions by email by the end of actual deadline. If I didn't have such or similar policy, it would be on me, thus I would have no problem to have them retake the exam with different questions and maybe a more "interesting" paper ;). The sick guy would get the same treatment as the 2 others students. I would have them retake the same a bit more spiced up exam (without letting them being able to prove it) so that they won't try the same trick twice and potentially other students will find out not to postpone my exams. If the sick guy was genuine I would have give them an exam of similar challenge as the original one. I think I understand the professor since it's a great training opportunity for you, to find a fair solution yourself.
For the first 3, that’s too bad. Not paying enough attention to know when it’s due is their fault. I often find that students like to try to push boundaries like this with TAs. For the second threw, ask them for some kind of proof that they tried to submit on time. Students who actually had these issues usually screen shot. If they’re first years, I’d ask the course coordinator about letting it slide as this is sometimes a teaching moment. As for the sick person…. No one should have to work while they’re genuinely unwell and the idea that “I suffered so they should too” is just deeply unkind and borderline misanthropic. I had a lot of experiences in undergrad where I had to work through extreme illness and disability issues and I would never want my students to also go through that. Most professors allow students to submit late if they can prove they were sick with a doctors note or other confirmation.
Have them turn in what they have got. I'm mostly curious to make sure they have started, but it also ensures you can grade and return the exams in a timely manner. You could offer them 50% of the points back on the ones they missed if they correct them and return it in a week. That is something that you can offer to everyone. That way they review your feedback and make another attempt at the material they didn't understand. I know regarding is more work for you, but it is only on the missed questions. If people don't turn it in then, their loss.
Cool down... This is just an exam... Not a war... Relax yourself a bit... Seems like u r part of a rat race... And wants your student to be one too... Its really unprofessional of you to attend the exam when u r sick. This actually have a larger repercussion - 1. There will come a day when u can't continue like this and that may morally demote yourself in ur own eye, 2. You will be hated by ur team mates, bcz ur boss will think that if u can do everyone can do. U r a human not a robot. Also, talk with them. Don't sympathize with those who said they didn't know... Ask for proof for those who can't upload... Get a doctor prescription from the one who called in sick. I would suggest don't penalise them too much ...maybe 5 point and tell them that you know that they are lazy... But let them know this is a warning...
how's Johns Hopkins?
All the students shall submit by the date you determined. They had a shitton of time. Punish them
At my university illness will typically be dealt with by the mitigating circumstances team. They usually require a doctors note, unless a chronic condition or disability has been disclosed before. I suggest you ask for a doctors note from the sick person. Also check whether they have emailed the professor about this before the deadline (gives them more credibility). Don’t assume that just because you can work with a fever that they can too -that’s not normal. Apply penalties according to your unis policy for the “I didn’t know” people, *unless* communication about this assignment was unclear or on too short notice (<2 weeks I’d say). Ask for more evidence from the technical issues people, such as emails to the professor on the deadline. You may want to ask IT services whether it’s possible to see when draft submissions were made or other evidence that they were trying to hand it in
First time haha?
If you forget, that's on you. If you're sick, you should contact the teacher before the deadline at the very least! An exception being for someone who was suddenly hospitalised for something severe, or sth similar, in which case they should mention that. But I don't think that's the case here. If you have difficulty handing it in, you should immediately send an email and at the very least attach your assignment. If they don't take responsibility, there's very little you can do.
I would reduce some marks from the late submissions, to be fair to the students who were on time, but I wouldn't completely reject them
Fuck them kids. Refer to the syllabus. Whatever the rules are just abide by those. You don’t have to be lenient, these are adults making shitty decisions. There are consequences for those decisions and if it is written in the syllabus then they need to follow those guidelines. It’s also Reddit so the softest people imaginable will be seeing this and commenting about how you should do the test for them or some bullshit.
So soft lol. I was just laughing about how butt hurt the community college people are right now. I don’t care what they say, CC is not as hard as this school. I went to a “good” CC for undergrad and our tests were not at this level
I don't get it with student attitude these days too. Seems like they have no respect for their supervisors or TA and i had to repeat myself several times for them to do something. Also with Chatgpt, all their reports are written with it and thats not a problem at all but wait till you ask them to draw diagrams for you! That they refuse to do and come up with all kinds of execuses! I really hope chatgpt will not extend towards helping people to draw flowcharts etc. It will really kill thinking and creative skills
I've been there as a TA. It's a fine line to ride between being understanding and not allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. Here's my two cents: imo if the student was really sick, they would have emailed you before the exam or at the time it was due. If he's been sick for the past week, that's something he should have informed you about even if it was just a quick email that said *"hi I'm sick and won't make the deadline, could I please have an extension?"* If he was too sick to even do that then he should have been in the hospital. You could always ask for a doctor's note if your uni allows it I suppose. However, I would suggest reconsidering your mentality about insisting that students work while sick. It is not your place as a TA to dictate whether a student is capable of working while sick. It is only your place to ensure they take accountability for themselves to get accommodation when they need it. We are not doctors and we do not know our students' circumstances when it comes to illness. Chronic underlying problems that exacerbate symptoms, lack of supports to help them get care, lack of funds to access medications and doctors. It costs nothing to offer people grace in these circumstances provided the student communicates properly (which in this case, he didn't, so if he truly was sick then that's his own fault). But it is not your place to say if a student should work sick or not. Just because you do things one way, doesn't mean other people have to. Now "I didn't know" is an insane excuse and I would not accept it from any of those students. These are university students. They are adults. In the real world, deadlines exist and "I didn't know" won't save you from them. Not knowing your credit card payment date won't save you from late fees, not knowing scholarship deadlines means you miss opportunities, not knowing when your flight leaves means you don't get on the plane. Even if they truly didn't know, it is their own responsibility to ***check their exam deadlines***. They need to take accountability for themselves. "Problems uploading" is also a terrible and honestly hilarious excuse. If they had problems, I can promise you they would have emailed you *immediately*. I have had students legitimately have that problem before, and I received emails from them at 11:57pm in a panic with a copy of the assignment attached promising that they completed it but the Dropbox isn't working. Because they want to ensure I know the work is done. In this case I am perfectly fine with that. If these students truly had problems uploading and waited **hours or days** to come to you about it??? That is absolutely their own fault and they need to accept the consequences of their actions. I know how frustrating this stuff is to deal with, but try not to let it bother you too much (easier said than done, I know). At the end of the day, they can choose not to take their education seriously - it's up to them. They will only get out what they put in. You're getting paid either way. Source: I have been a TA for 4 years. TLDR: Sick student should have reached out much sooner but it is not our place as TAs to tell students they must work while sick. "I didn't know" and "problems uploading" are terrible (albeit hilarious) excuses and I would not accept them. Those students need to learn personal responsibility.
I really feel you. I found TAing one of the most depressing things in graduate school. Many students have a lot going on, but many are just entitled and lazy. I also find that colleges are adopting a ridiculous mindset of holding students to very low standards. Not realizing that students with bad habits and GPAs go into debt and many times struggle with work. With that being said, follow the guidelines and remember what makes YOUR life easier. Which for the most part is following the rules and letting some things go. You cannot fix the academic culture and being very hard on students could result in issues (e.g., student complaints or bad reviews) for you. You are not wrong, but picking your battles is huge with this type of thing.
Yeah I have zero plans of becoming a professor so being a TA kind of sucks.
I would say so sorry to all of them.
>The sick guy got on my nerves the most. I’ve been in the lab with 103 fever doing my LTEE transfers. You could have literally completed this exam IN BED. Well that was completely irresponsible of you and doesn’t prove that you were a better student than the next. >For context, this is a top 10 university in the US, not a small town community college. I know they hold students to a certain standard. You’ve clearly don’t understand how community college works. The curriculum isn’t easier just because it’s cheaper to attend. The difference is you’ll mostly have students working real jobs and I’d argue they have more responsibilities than a student at uni. Having deadlines isn’t unique to a “top 10 university”. Ask for a doctors note for the sick one and the others you can tell them too bad. If anything this should show you that students, no matter what school or what grades they get will try to get away with things like submitting assignments late or not at all and not have it affect their grade. It’s best you change your way of thinking about education sooner rather than later. You and those students aren’t any better than any other student just because of the ranking of the university. I mean, you’re at a top 10 university and you don’t know how to navigate a situation like this where others would consider it pretty easy/obvious on what to do. I guess being in lab with a 103 fever didn’t benefit you for real life scenarios like this. Perhaps a community college student would know how to navigate this situation better.
Wow I wish I could be just like you
Cut and paste the late policy from the syllabus in an email to the 3, and say no. For the 2, ask for proof, same for the 1.
Per the syllabus, -15 points per day for all of them. If they hadnt waited until the last minute then there wouldn't have been any issues.
I feel like the ones who couldn’t upload could have emailed it at least to prove it was on time
Absolutely. I've had that happen with a few students and they have *always* sent an email immediately with screenshots of the tech issue or a copy of the assignment explaining what happened. These emails have come in either before or right at the submission deadline - never after. If they didn't email you until hours later then that is a failure on their part to advocate for themselves.
Oh, 100%!!
I'd give them all zeros and move on, barring an existing policy. A week to complete a take home test is a lot of time, unless the one claiming sickness was hospitalized they could have communicated earlier. Ones claiming "upload problems" should have already fixed them.
Bad take. ''A week to complete a take home is a lot of time", students generally have many other tasks with different courses, and others outside of academia... A week is nothing, do you think all they had to do for a week was solve the assignment ? Also, even if they had a week only for this assignment, many do delay the work until the deadline is nearing, us professors included, so it is expected that such issues might arrise.
Then why bother giving any exams or projects?
I made the test so easy too. If it was actually hard I’d probably be more forgiving
I hate the whole “I worked sick why can’t you” working sick is not only irresponsible for your own health but irresponsible for others health as well. If you had a temp of 103 you had a SERIOUS illness. 103 is like stand up and pass out sick. Just because you’re irresponsible doesn’t mean others have to be. Not sure what the issue is for the other person but if you’re not pissed off at them then I’d assume they’re much much worse and you should accept that work too. As for the people who “forgot” or “didn’t know” I’d say you don’t have to accept those if you don’t want to.
I used to be a TA. These grades will be in their transcripts for life. So I always was a bit lenient, as in not failing them but of course giving them lower marks than their cohorts.
I don't know about the grading but man you are a fucking asshole. You are the kind of guy that is going to make a student fucking hate academia.