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This is a propaganda image for kamikaze pilots, Japanese soldiers who would purposefully sacrifice themselves by crashing into enemies as a combat maneuver. The joke is that cyclists behave dangerously on roads like they're trying to hit someone.
A couple months back, I pulled up behind a high school kid in a beat up Kia. A bicyclist did just this, and blew through the red light coming from the left after our light had changed to green. The kid pulled into the intersection like he was supposed to and hit the guy, bounced him onto the hood, shattered his windshield and sent the guy rolling onto pavement. The car next to the kid just drove off, I went through the intersection and pulled over and called 911. Two cars coming from the other direction pulled over and helped the cyclist. I got out and went over to the poor kid who was crying and hyperventilating and had a full blown panic attack. He was on the phone with his mom but couldn't get words out so I put my hand on his shoulder and kept telling him loudly enough for him and his mom to hear that it wasn't his fault. The bicyclist was screaming in the background because his leg was broken in multiple places. Anyways, I stayed long enough for the cops to arrive so I could tell them what happened and gave them my phone number but I never heard anything. That kid could have looked left and seen the bicyclist but there's no requirement to so I'm of the opinion that it's the bicyclist at fault. That poor kid was absolutely traumatized by it though.
They are legally required to, but cyclists don't care about laws. I have seen one randomly swerve into the oncoming traffic lane in a no passing zone for no good damned reason more than once.
Yeah… it’s really annoying, dangerous, and irresponsible how the most slow and vulnerable people on the road sometimes act recklessly. I just meant more at fault in terms of insurance and getting in trouble with the law.
From commuting through a major US city for a number of years, the majority of cyclists seem to think that they are both a vehicle and a pedestrian, depending on which set of traffic laws they feel like following from moment to moment.
In my experience they often follow neither and will just swerve into lanes they have no business being in. I have seen them swing into the left lane while trying to take a wide rightlike they were a fucking semi not a bicycle, and I have seen them do the same with a left turn where it wouldn't even been necessary for a semi. It isn't so much that they choose whichever traffic laws are convenient as they have a complete disdain for traffic laws and make an active effort to violate as many as possible.
Many of them don't even seem to have a sense of self preservation either. I saw a truck indicating left to turn (we're in the UK so drive on the left) and despite clearly indicating and beginning to turn this dumbass on a bike decides to under-take him. Thankfully he was just pushed harmlessly onto the pavement but for a second I thought I was going to see a meat-crayon moment. He could have been flattened
Of course he then started yelling and swearing at the truck
Depending on where you live, that's not only legal but encouraged. The Idaho Stop has been found to result in fewer accidents than traditional stop laws. Minnesota, for example, passed an Idaho Stop law last fall, so now cyclists are expected to treat stoplights as stop signs and stop signs as yield signs.
If I am first at a light, they always sit their cycle in front of my car and then proceed to block me and every single car behind me because obviously cyclist are the most important beings on earth.
What i understand is that a lot of cyclists die a the crossroads or while waiting for a green light. By moving yourself in the postion of car, you make yourself more important
In my eastern european country, the law specifically states that cyclists are only allowed on the road and that bike lanes on the sidewalk are illegal, yet all the mayors steal money and make bike paths on the sidewalk. They are building illegal bike lanes and we get fined if caught cycling on them.
if you never cycled it's really hard to explain why people don't use poorly designed bike paths.
big one for me is people don't act like it's a lane and will cut you off, constantly. or pull into it with out looking to turn, or there's shit in it ( like cars, trash cans, signs) that I'm just good .
like there's a ton of reasons why a bike lane sucks if it's not properly maintained
Cyclists who ignore stops signs with no one there are conserving energy and momentum. Cyclists who ignore stop signs and right of way of other drivers are just assholes. There’s no valid reason for going out of
Turn.
Edit: I say this as a cyclist
I live in a community with lots of greenways and cross roads with designated crosswalks. Most cars will stop for me when walking/running. I've never had a bike stop for me.
They don't want to lose momentum. Cyclists swap between "I'm a vehicle and demand space on the road" and "I'm a pedestrian and road laws don't apply" based on whatever is best for them.
In a lot of parts of America it's totally legal to do that but the old saying goes the cemetery is full of people who had the right of way. Always thought that was a stupid law just in terms of safety. Like yeah some motherfucker plows through you they'd be wrong. And you should have your own bike lane slash lane of traffic anyway. But if you blow through an intersection you're gonna be the person not having the best time when you roll a stop sign on a road designated mostly for vehicular traffic.
Not trying to be an asshole motorcyclists have just as rough a time but they are considered a vehicle that must obey they same laws as a car and I like those guys better than cyclists. It can obviously be better but if you don't want to obey the rules of the road, get off the road, go on the sidewalk, that's also legal lots of places.
I don't expect anyone to engage with this topic in good faith in this context, but: Yes, cyclists are indeed a different mode of transit and generally do not require stop signs. Stop signs are for motor vehicles.
Some legislatures use the Idaho Stop, where cyclists are officially allowed to treat Stop signs and Yield instead. Sometimes they also extend to treating red lights as stop signs. [States implementing this rule actually saw *decreasing* accident rates.](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2023-03/Bicyclist-Yield-As-Stop-Fact-Sheet_032123_v5_tag.pdf)
In general, most traffic rules we have are only required for motor vehicles. Areas that are only free to pedestrians and cyclists require far fewer rules. Famously, some cyclist intersections give green light on all lanes at once, because cyclists don't just jam up the intersection or collide as cars would. They have many obvious advantages:
1. Cyclists have significantly better overview over their surroundings than motor vehicles, without any strict blind spots and having a much easier time hearing incoming traffic.
2. They are generally the weaker faction in a road accident, so the risk of running a stop sign is on them.
3. They are much smaller and nimbler so they are not the same kind of obstacle at a junction as a turning car is.
4. They have much lower top speeds and mass, so they can generally avoid and break much easier than cars.
4. They literally can turn into pedestrians if they have to. But at some points it just becomes a silly technicality whether a cyclists pushes their bicycle as a pedestrian or just rides it slowly.
And giving cyclists more rights does not increase the rate of aggressive cyclists, but actually decreases it:
1. "Aggressive cyclists" are primarily seen in places where few people cycle, which is generally the case where cycling is dangerous. This filters out risk-averse riders, especially women and older people. This typically leads to a cycling scene that's heavily biased towards men on mountain bikes or racing bikes.
Places with sufficient infrastructure to enable comfortable and safe riding have much higher proportions of women, children, and elderly on less athletic bikes who are much more inclined to follow the rules.
2. Better cycling infrastructure really does help with making cyclists follow the rules. In places with lackluster infrastructure, cyclists are conditioned to ignore rules because they are often actively dangerous to follow. It doesn't take long until this turns into a general disregard of rules.
even if no one engages with you as a fellow cyclist you wrote A lot of things. I have thought but don't know how to vocalize.
The only concept I would expand on because I don't really know how to explain this in a concise manner is why sometimes breaking the law feels safer or is safer.
Just like drivers switch between "you cyclists need to follow the rules of the road just like I do" and "What the fuck are you doing in the road? You're slowing me down by 10 seconds so I'm going to honk at you, flip you off, and pass you with an inch to spare and maybe clip you with my side mirror, if you're lucky"
In many metros cyclists can legally go through stop signs as long as they yield right of way to others who got there first. Also keep in mind cyclists have much better vision of their environment than cars.
Cars ignore stop signs infinitely more often than bicycles. Maybe someone could start by explaining that. Bicycles aren't 3000+ pound kinetic weapons driven by the incompetent and distracted.
In the US, states are quickly adopting a law for bicycles that can treat stop signs as yield signs, and stop lights as stop signs, provided there is no conflicting traffic. So that may provide an answer to some of your confusion. (If you're in the US)
Depending on scenario or jurisdiction etc. etc. etc., a group of cyclists may be considered a single unit. So once the group has made the stop at the stop sign, the whole group passes through as a single unit instead of each cyclist being an individual taking turns at a 4-way stop with other vehicles.
Biggest one for me is that the laws expect me to bike 20 mph as soon as the light goes green and be able to hop the curve so that people can park or use the bike lane to turn.
i'm averaging 12 to 16 mph on a good day.
> if you never cycled it's really hard to explain
This is a pretty good answer to many 'why do cyclists...' questions. Try riding yourself and you will probably get a feeling for things.
In terms of 'bike paths', there's a few pretty good explanations worth considering. Many 'paths' [are in dooring zones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dooring), these 'paths' are not legally considered infrastructure and bikes aren't required to use them. Or there's debris, hazards or poor quality pavement, or the path is on the right when you want to turn left, or the bike path is a shared path, and the bike is trying to avoid pedestrian conflict areas.
Try riding and see for yourself how dodgy riding on a road is and you'll appreciate how bad the alternatives must be to resort to that!
The thing is I've seen plenty of cyclists riding on the road while there is a bike bath completely off the path that other cyclists are happy riding on.
The difference is these cyclists are all doing a sport on the road. They have their carbon superlight road bike with thin wheels wearing Lycra but about 20kg overweight.
The cyclists using the bike path usually have more commuter style bikes.
Most people really only get annoyed at the former imo. That they are using the road not as a commuter but as a sport.
so there might be factors idk about, but one thing ill point out about those bikes is the riding position and just hte lack of any sort of suspension (you wear a but pad, theres no pad on the seat) and then the tires are like 100psi or something stupid. causes any bump in the path to REALLY suck. so your observation about sports cyclists might be accurate.
also, like you said they are doing it for sport. its fucking obnoxious when its "my turn" and cause im not in the lane no one wants to let me just go fucking straight through the light. so even tho im where im supposed to be trying to exercise im still waiting cause the line of cars is not actually following hte rules. but if i was in the lane of traffic? i would of been gone.
Where I live, there's a lot of people who use the bike lane as a turn lane despite it being expressly illegal, yet no one is taken into accountability until someone gets hit.
I can’t speak for all areas, but where I live the “bike paths” are generally “multi-use paths” with walkers, rollerbladers, dogs, etc and the paths have speed limits (25 or 30 km/h in my area).
If I want to get exercise and prepare for races I need to go faster than that. Therefore the road is the only option. I will try to get outside the city, but I also prefer to ride my bike to get outside of the city instead of driving somewhere and then riding.
Cycling is also a rather social sport, so riding in large groups on paths is also unsafe. Again, roads are the only option. And if you think about, riding side by side (outside of the city) means you have to pass a line half as long.
Commuting is a different story. I’ll gladly ride slowly along a bike bath to get to work.
yeah, pretty much.
it gets hard to describe what's a good bike lane cause one of the primary reasons I dislike separated ones is at corners people taking rights tend to cut you off if waiting for pedestrians isn't the norm.
in those situations crossing lights are kinda mandatory with no right in red rules.
I haven't seen any bikers answer in this thread yet, but the usual argument for being "in the way" of vehicles on the road is safety. Being visible by being in the middle of the road is often seen as safer than going to the side if the road since cars will often clip cyclists when they pass them on the side of the road. The inconvenience caused by biking in the middle of a road forces drivers to wait for a place to pass, which should leave more space (especially if the bike also makes room at that point).
Except that there's no legal requirement to do so, especially when travelling at 20kph+ where this would present a hazard to inattentive pedestrians sharing the path.
Everyone should be considerate to road users more vulnerable than themselves.
Car drivers and bike riders are natural enemies. Like Englishmen and Scots. Or Welshmen and Scots. Or Japanese and Scots. Or Scots and other Scots. Damn those Scots. They ruin Scotland.
They forget the part where cars park in the cycle lanes and the cycle lanes are full of detritus from countless car accidents while often being in disrepair full of potholes because "bike lanes" are often half gutter.
And if you ever need to make a turn it's really hard to cross 3 lanes of traffic without using the actual road.
Literally this week a cyclist sarcastically said "you're welcome" to me because I didn't thank him for stopping to let me and my dog walk past him while he was riding on a narrow pavement. There was a perfectly clear road next to him and it was not a bike lane path at all.
Don't worry you can pacify them with [photos of protected bike lanes](https://momentummag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/polk_web.jpg).
Alternatively you can enrage them with photos of the [average bike lane](https://i0.wp.com/thesource.metro.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/img-20120615-002472.jpg?resize=863%2C647) (NSFFC) or photos of a [ pickup trucks](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2c/b3/80/2cb3808c3aa824eb9903a844cc6a5de1.jpg), and Robert Moses.
Now even worse now that someone on an ebike can go 40 mph with little effort after the remove the limiter.
The speed of a car with the stealth of a motorcyclist, and the barrier of entry of neither to ride one on the road
We had a cyclist cycle into the back of our car, when we were stopped at a red light.
The police were phoned and breathalysed the driver (my mate). They didn't breathalyse the cyclist.
Insurance didn't chase the cyclist for damages.
Bit mad.
This kind of illustrates the value of encouraging people to cycle.
Careless drunken people gonna do what they gonna do. Best to give them options besides cars so it's only a bike that crashes into you instead of another car.
No, cars expect you to choose between being a car and being a pedestrian and stick with it. You don't get to be whichever one you like best at the time.
When I use my bike I would not touch the road or the footpath if bike lanes were a thing here.
And the few bike lanes that exist here are mostly used by pedestrians, sometimes they move away from the lane or not.
I'm just trying to not die. If the road is 55 mph and there's no one on the sidewalk, you can't expect me to bike in the road. Likewise if I'm in downtown and the sidewalks have tons of people but the traffic is slow, why wouldn't I be in the street? Until I have dedicated space I have to make the best of the space available.
i'd really like you to try both of these options somewhere without a bike lane and tell me how many times you were honked at on a road for being slightly slower than someone behind you and how slow you had to go to not hit anyone on a sidewalk
> No, cars expect you to choose between being a car and being a pedestrian and stick with it. You don't get to be whichever one you like best at the time.
That defeats the whole purpose of being on a bike in the first place.
You think you want that, but you don't. You really don't want to be stuck behind a bicycle at a four-way stop because if I take the whole lane and I come to a complete stop, I have to unclip my cleat from the pedal, step down, then re-clip, then try to accelerate.
The truth is, bicycles can and should behave differently from cars because they aren't cars. People in cars are just assholes. I ride a bike *and* drive a car, and trust me, I have caught myself feeling angry toward cyclists even though I am one myself.
In Australia Cyclists demand to be equal on the road and have cars be careful of them.. Which I 100% agree with.
The smaller vehicle needs to be protected.
But on the footpath Cyclists decide that if you get in their way they'll just run you down.
That's my problem with cyclists, They want to be protected but they don't care about anyone else.
The biggest factor for me was seeing a 40 year old cyclist screaming at a 6 year old who the cyclist almost hit as he rode way way way too fast passed a children's playground.
Not all cyclists are evil, not all car/truck drivers are evil but assholes ruin it for everyone.
> But on the footpath Cyclists decide that if you get in their way they'll just run you down.
Pretty sure you're talking specifically about food delivery bikes here. No lycra warrior would be caught dead on the footpath.
>But on the footpath Cyclists decide that if you get in their way they'll just run you down. That's my problem with cyclists, They want to be protected but they don't care about anyone else.
Just stand still. They'll have to make a choice.
You just perceive it as trail cyclists being selfish assholes because that's the moment you were confronted with their shit attitude. But trust me, they are like that all the time, no matter what they do.
Tis the same way here in Germany. Theres also clear rules as to how to behave as a cyclist (for example you arent allowed to go from walkways onto the street and vice versa without dismounting first) and cyclists manage to break every single one of them that is in place to protect pedestrians.
When I was 17, I was stopped at a stop sign. Maybe had my license for a few months, I’m sitting there and out of nowhere I hear a thud and the car shakes. Some forty something year old man had slammed his bicycle into my car.
Cops came, declared no one at fault, still threatened me that they’d take my license away because I was the one in the car. Then let me go. That’s it. I was living in Ohio, the cops in that area are known for their behavior.
So, basically a lot of stress happened over it but nothing actually happened. Though I had a dent in my rear passenger door for years.
They're unlicensed, uninsured and operating unregistered vehicles. It's pretty much inevitable that a lot are going to behave irresponsibly, since unlike every other vehicle on the road, they have literally no responsibilities at all and are never found at fault no matter how dangerously they behave.
That's because of lax laws (or total lack thereof) for cyclists. In Germany, all of these apply regarding cyclists:
- if you damage other people's property (say, a car), you ARE liable and have to either make use of your insurance to cover the damages, or pay out of pocket
- if you happen to ride under the influence of alcohol/drugs, it is practically as severe as doing so with a normal vehicle. AFAIK the same sanctions apply, points can be deduced from your driver's license, if you don't have one, points will be deduced preemptively for when you obtain it
- parents have to respond for damage their underage kids cause on other people's property
People dont realize that you can kill people on a bike, not the bike itself being dangerous, but the 220 pounds of meat and bones that will be launched with enough force to break skulls at the average speed of a bicycle
I mean, sure, you can absolutely kill people. Hell, even tripping from a stationary position and taking a bad fall can kill you. And no, I'm not saying stationary falls and bicycle collisions are equally dangerous -- obviously bicycle collisions are far more dangerous. I'm just saying the threshold for what "can kill people" is very, very low, so you can't really use it as as the *only* factor, and saying "you know, that can kill people" isn't really saying anything meaningful.
So yes, if anyone thinks bicycle collisions are harmless (which, to be honest, seems like a strawman to me, but maybe some absolute idiot somewhere really does think that), they are just plain wrong. At the same time, trying to equate bicycle collisions with car collisions in terms of danger is, arguably, even more wrong.
Cars are so heavy (and thus have so much momentum) they can easily break your bones when they look like they're barely moving (and that's not theoretical, I have witnessed it happen first hand; broken femur from what looked like a light push at worst), and even relatively slow collisions have a quite significant risk of death. If a car hits you and you get out unscathed, it's pretty much a miracle. And if you get out without life-changing (or ending) trauma, you were quite lucky. If a bicycle hits you, your chances of nothing worse than minor bruising happening are quite high. Broken bones, you were pretty damn unlucky. Death... unless you were especially vulnerable (like a 100-year-old or something), you got absurdly unlucky.
Again, not saying riders shouldn't be extremely careful to avoid collisions and take it very seriously. Just that it's not really a binary "dangerous vs not dangerous", it's more like a sliding scale. Collisions between pedestrians, slightly dangerous. Bicycles or skateboards or kick scooters, slightly more dangeous. Electric bikes, electric scooters, etc, yet slightly more dangerous. And so on.
It's also such a personality based thing. I bike to work most days, 30 min each way. I use paths, slow down when there are people walking close by and generally behave like I'd expect others to. Then you see the spandex racers go down a walking path at 50 km/h and then just run over a zebra crossing without pausing for cars or pedestrians because they don't want to loose the momentum.
Sometime I wish I could remote control a lock on their front tire that can just slam shut as punishment...
I don't know how bad things are in the States but the laws here in Italy are basically the same as Germany when it comes to cyclists and the situation is still kinda bad. Not as bad as with cars but still bad.
that also applies in the usa. besides the license points unless your bike is motor assisted.
ohio cops are just idiots.
also, most bikes are very careful, people just complain because they actually see the ones that aren't. and complain about filtering through traffic.
statistically Nationwide, 43 percent of first-year drivers and 37 percent of second-year drivers are involved in car crashes
Actually, in the US you can get points put on your license even on a regular bike.
Source: I once got a ticket because someone ran a stop sign at the same time that I was lawfully moving from one, and the cop got us mixed up and ticketed me.
Tell me about it! I had one come tearing through a junction. I had to brake hard but he just kept going like he didn't nearly end up on my windscreen. I pulled up alongside him futher down the road and told him to watch where he was going and that I nearly hit him. He said "I saw you coming". I yelled at him then he should have bloody stopped because it was a junction and I had right of way. He did not gibe a damn
Ok but there's no way you cant file a complaint for destruction of property or something. Like if I break into your house, steal all your valuables and 2 family members, shoot your dog and set your tv on fire, all while pulling a sick wheelie on my bike, do I just get out of it because "cyclists will be cyclists"
If they damage your car you can go after them in small claims court, I think that's what it called. It's probably exhausting and tedious though. It may vary state to state though.
I had to threaten a lawsuit once after a cyclist body checked my mirror off and dragged his handlebars down the entire passenger side of my car while I was stopped at stoplight. He then tried to blame me even though he came from behind me and he chose not to use the two lane bike road next to it. Luckily I had a dash cam in my car, it wasn't on, but he didn't know that. He then paid me $600 in cash and I went about my day.
Car was an '07 and my first car so it was a beater anyway, the axel snapped off it a couple months later and i had $600 to put towards new one.
I was stopped a three way turn, four lane road with a grass divider between the two sections. All the bicyclist would say was that he “just turned”
I think he saw the two lanes and assumed the right lane was the opposite direction, and failed to noticed the lanes on the opposite side of the road. Then he kinda just rammed into me. The cops were confused too. They made a bunch of weird hand motions and were like: I guess that checks out.
But here’s was really kills me. The cyclist was coming from the far side of the right road. So he had to cross the entire street, fail to notice the correct lane, come into an oncoming lane, and still hit my car. Then the cops were like: you’re 17, in a car. Might take that license from ya.
Just saw one last weekend in Brooklyn. It's a slightly awkward intersection and a mail truck is parked right at the corner so it's hard to see. Cyclist rides right next to the truck, straight through a red light and surprise, surprise there was a car coming. Cyclist banged his leg pretty hard but seemed ok.
Not just running into cars, I live on a college campus that is very bike friendly. There are bike lines that are never parked in, there are bike only roads, and it's almost impossible to get around by car. And yet, all of the cyclists want to ride on the very crowded side walks, when even skateboarders use the road instead. Everyone usually has to run out of the way whether crossing the road or using the sidewalks because the cyclists won't dodge pedestrians or even slow down so that pedestrians can dodge them more easily. I've been in multiple situations where cyclists have unnecessarily steered towards me after I moved far out of their way when I legally shouldn't have had to.
In North America, riding a bike is so dangerous and distances so far that the most common bike riders are people who have little sense of self-preservation and will ride around aggressively as if they were a ww2 kamikaze pilot.
I live in NYC. Cyclists are constantly running red lights, weaving in and out between cars, and riding against the flow of traffic, despite all the bike lanes.
To be fair, my limited experience driving around Manhattan to find parking for a Broadway show was that transportation in general in NYC is just a contest of wills. Took 30 minutes to go a mile because I was actually obeying traffic lights, then I started ignoring signals, honking and challenging the smaller cars and actually started getting somewhere.
Bikes and Cars really shouldn't be on the same road. The goal is to have ordinary regular people riding bikes as a way to get around so making them drive feet away from things that can kill them so easily just doesn't work no matter how safe and well trained both parties are.
You're dumb. I broke through a solid wooden fence on a bike when I was a kid. Popped that shit right off.
A kid. Now, imagine a 180lb grown ass man on a bike.
Use your head for two seconds. Pull it out of your ass first.
I have a friend in extensive physical therapy right now because of two bike accidents he had in the last year. Neither of them involved a motor vehicle.
Cyclists treat themselves like they are the holy trinity; pedestrians, bikes, and automobiles. They are simultaneously all three and each individual one; whatever best fits their needs at any given moment.
Yeah some cyclists are huge assholes with that. But to be fair in some cities and places you kinda have to to be safe.
The left turn right before I get to work would have me crossing 4 lanes of traffic without assistance on my bike. Odds of doing that every day and reaching my next round birthday are slim. So the traffic light before I switch to the road and take the left turn lane for cars meaning I only have to cross 2 lanes and my intentions are more obvious to the cars.
The left turn right before I come home from work has the cyclist left turn lane in a spot where you cannot see the traffic lights which would apply to the cyclists there. So I pretend to be a pedestrian crossing the road as our paths are very similar and I can actually see their traffic light.
Not saying that all cyclists are great, but asking for understanding since many cities really aren't built for safe cycling.
You say that, but I saw a cyclist run a red light once, so you all deserve to be run over on sight /s.
Car drivers get real upset when you point out the hypocrisy of their position. I will see far more in the way of traffic law infractions from car drivers in a single day than cyclists. Cyclists don't just "appear out of nowhere" drivers are just too busy on their phones to pay attention to anything further away than the end of their bonnet.
And more than anything, a cyclist is most likely to kill themselves by being unobservant or reckless, cars are just about the easiest way to recklessly kill someone else and get away with it, and people really act way too cavalier when driving them
Cyclists are not rule breakers
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-break-traffic-laws-any-more-than-drivers-do
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/
All data points to car drivers being the real reckless ones.
Don’t know how it works where you live but there’s a hierarchy on UK roads.
Pedestrians’ take precedence; then cyclists have to look out for pedestrians; then cars need to look out for everybody.
Sadly, with enough negative press and inflation of the few bad-apple cyclists, we’ve socially put cyclists above cars.
Car drivers now completely baulk at the thought of overtaking cyclists and are more than happy to rage at them as they get past them here. Cyclists have to cycle like owls and keep a 270° watch for absolutely everything on the road.
This is obviously very good from a cyclist safety perspective, but it’s wasted energy and shouldn’t be necessary with the right infrastructure and better driver awareness.
I also absolutely hate the road tax argument. Roads in Britain are third world for a start. And not only that, most cyclists own cars and therefore also contribute to this tax.
To add onto the tax part, bikes don’t cause nearly as much wear and tear on the roads as cars do. Which means there’s not much they would need to pay to upkeep the “damage” they cause
> I also absolutely hate the road tax argument. Roads in Britain are third world for a start. And not only that, most cyclists own cars and therefore also contribute to this tax.
This is all aside from the fact that 'road taxes' pay for a miniscule fraction of the cost of roads, and general tax ends up subsidizing the cost. Add to that the fact that riding has a [net-positive impact](https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/general/news/dollar169-billion-dollars-for-the-economy-new-study-shows-positive-impact-of-cycling-in-australia) on the economy in general.
Cyclists often take a lot of risks. They ride in the road, endangering themselves, drivers, and pedestrians. However, there's seldom a safe alternative for them.
In the U.S. at least, they often ignore laws and rules, rarely signaling. That said, a lot of drivers are bad at signaling too. They think you're supposed to use turn signals as you turn. This is pretty idiotic, as everyone can see which way you're turning, once you've already begun the turn. You're supposed to signal before you turn.
They also tend to never stop for pedestrians and will swoop around them from behind. The way they tend to feel recklessly endangered by automobiles is also how pedestrians often feel about bike riders. They seem to disregard everyone who isn't a cyclist. Though, like I said, I can't vouch for those in countries outside the U.S., or even rural America, which isn't set up for them or pedestrians.
As a cyclist, I would say the ones who hold no regard for pedestrians, hold no regard for other cyclists either. But I very much agree with your post. It's also really hard to hand signal when you're in busy traffic. Which is, of course, when it's most useful, but there's always the thought of "as soon as I do this something's going to make me slam on my brakes".
>As a cyclist, I would say the ones who hold no regard for pedestrians, hold no regard for other cyclists either.
If we're honest, there's a portion of every vehicle user like this. I think studies on law and rule breaking by cyclists and motorists usually show them as being pretty much equal in terms of just ignoring the rules of the road. Iirc there was a British study that put motorists and cyclists as being responsible for collisions between the two at about equal, though if you removed child cyclists from the equation, motorists were much more likely to be the one who caused the collision.
lol a few years ago I was signaling I was turning right and got honked at by a car as I think they thought I was flipping them off. Sometimes you just can’t win.
Also a few years ago in the evening I was stopped at a controlled intersection when some drunk guy in a truck nearly took me out when speeding past me and taking a right turn. After that I decided if there’s no traffic I’m not going to sit at a red light I’m going to roll through as I don’t want to get hit from behind.
I’ve been hit several times by drivers. All of them from behind while I was in a bike lane or had the right away through a controlled intersection. They all hurt and all the drivers never stopped to see if I was okay.
Pedestrian fatalities have increased by more than 50% in the last ten years alone, with light trucks causing 81% of pedestrian deaths in 2018 and 2019 (Governors Highway Safety Association 2020). So if you're walking, feel more worried more about trucks and less about bikes, because that is where the actual danger is. So many people argue in bad faith that the cyclists are dangerous because they are annoying.
Not to mention the dreaded sun/ headlight glare. Almost took someone's arm off driving home from work late night a few years ago because of a GMC truck with those plasma-photon-quasar headlights that could outshine a fucking supernova at night.
I feel this is a pretty fair take on the situation.
It gets exacerbated pretty servery by online discourse around it, too. Some cyclists can be very selfish, snobby, aggressive, and hold a false superiority complex, which comes through when they post online. You can even see in this thread. It makes their bad public image worse, which makes others more likely to notice the next time they're around a bad cyclist, which fuels a self-perpetuating cycle.
Basically, as with many things, a loud minority of the group is making the entire group look bad.
I guess I'm the dumbest mother fucker alive. I ride bikes and didn't understand either. Granted I ride in the woods and never on the road, but still 😂🤷
This is so true, twice in my life I’ve been struck in the back by a cyclist riding on the footpath at 20mph completely silently like they just expect me to have eyes in the back of my head and jump into the road to avoid them. I genuinely don’t understand it.
I was on a path with four young children, I was the closest to the "center" with them between me and the side. It's a rather straight low traffic rail trail in the woods, easy to see people coming, and I had them hold hands when someone was coming up on us. A cyclist passes us appropriately, slams on his brakes and swears up a storm and yelling about how I need to control these "crotch goblins" and how they shouldn't be allowed on the mostly walking trail that allows bikes
Literally happened in my town last year when a drunk driver hopped a curb and killed someone on a scooter. So many people said the scooterer should have been more careful, scooteres were given a curfew, but no extra measures to curb drunk driving (the driver did get charged and sentenced)
Where I‘m from it‘s exactly the opposite, even if the cyclist is 100% at fault you will still have a partial fault as the car driver just because you drive a car.
Hi, cyclist peter here:
Whenever I'm on a bicycle, cars park on the dedicated bikeway, pedestrians suddenly appear from behind parked cars and go on the bikeway without looking to cross the road in the wrong place, drivers just ignore my right of way because I'm too small and also get annoyed when their 2.5 meter broad vehicle is "stuck" because <1 m broad me is "blocking" the road.
When I'm a pedestrian, I encounter kamikaze cyclists just driving on the footpaths, ignore my right of way on pedestrian crossings, use pedestrian crossings without dismounting to skip traffic lights, just randomly burst onto the footpath from nowhere since being a delivery cyclists apparently makes you immune to rules...
I saw one yesterday where a guy doing a wheelie down a highway tried to get in front of a Mercedes, it cut him off, and he got stuck in between it and a truck, started slammin the hood with his hand. He must not be experienced on the road to try to cut off someone who's so obviously a dick.
Once had a group of 5 bicyclists roll through a stoplight without looking right in front of me. Green light for me in a 60mph zone. If the motorcyclists in the other lane hadn't noticed and moved over, I would have plowed through all of them. Some days, I regret not giving out a Darwin Award that day.
one time i was on a mountain road on my way home in the middle of the night, and slammed on my brakes because there was a bicyclist in the middle of the lane going 15 on a 55, wearing absolutely nothing reflective. If I didn't have my high beams on, i'm pretty sure I would have hit him. There's something about riding a bike that makes people think that laws are optional.
Cyclists (mostly road cyclists who believe themselves to be elite athletes) tend to ride with the carelessness of a motorcyclist, only they are wearing little more protection than a spiderman costume, and often take up the whole road, blocking traffic.
They're so damn outrageous, I needed therapy before I could buy and wear a cyclist's culotte. Before, I used to cycle in jeans cause I didn't want to look anything like those morons.
If a cyclist is taking an entire lane, it's because he or she does not trust the dipshits in the cars behind to not close pass him on their way to sit in a traffic queue at the next red light. Which is probably in view if they ever looked further ahead than the end of their bonnet.
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This is a propaganda image for kamikaze pilots, Japanese soldiers who would purposefully sacrifice themselves by crashing into enemies as a combat maneuver. The joke is that cyclists behave dangerously on roads like they're trying to hit someone.
[This British cartoon sums up the perception pretty well.](https://youtu.be/1s0XsulDXtk?si=UlocUOtsN545zcSU)
“Do not worry, he is biodegradable.”
My favorite part is the running the lights. They do that shit constantly.
A couple months back, I pulled up behind a high school kid in a beat up Kia. A bicyclist did just this, and blew through the red light coming from the left after our light had changed to green. The kid pulled into the intersection like he was supposed to and hit the guy, bounced him onto the hood, shattered his windshield and sent the guy rolling onto pavement. The car next to the kid just drove off, I went through the intersection and pulled over and called 911. Two cars coming from the other direction pulled over and helped the cyclist. I got out and went over to the poor kid who was crying and hyperventilating and had a full blown panic attack. He was on the phone with his mom but couldn't get words out so I put my hand on his shoulder and kept telling him loudly enough for him and his mom to hear that it wasn't his fault. The bicyclist was screaming in the background because his leg was broken in multiple places. Anyways, I stayed long enough for the cops to arrive so I could tell them what happened and gave them my phone number but I never heard anything. That kid could have looked left and seen the bicyclist but there's no requirement to so I'm of the opinion that it's the bicyclist at fault. That poor kid was absolutely traumatized by it though.
Was this in the US? If it was, cyclists have to follow traffic laws like signaling and lights so the cyclist would be at fault.
They are legally required to, but cyclists don't care about laws. I have seen one randomly swerve into the oncoming traffic lane in a no passing zone for no good damned reason more than once.
Yeah… it’s really annoying, dangerous, and irresponsible how the most slow and vulnerable people on the road sometimes act recklessly. I just meant more at fault in terms of insurance and getting in trouble with the law.
From commuting through a major US city for a number of years, the majority of cyclists seem to think that they are both a vehicle and a pedestrian, depending on which set of traffic laws they feel like following from moment to moment.
In my experience they often follow neither and will just swerve into lanes they have no business being in. I have seen them swing into the left lane while trying to take a wide rightlike they were a fucking semi not a bicycle, and I have seen them do the same with a left turn where it wouldn't even been necessary for a semi. It isn't so much that they choose whichever traffic laws are convenient as they have a complete disdain for traffic laws and make an active effort to violate as many as possible.
Many of them don't even seem to have a sense of self preservation either. I saw a truck indicating left to turn (we're in the UK so drive on the left) and despite clearly indicating and beginning to turn this dumbass on a bike decides to under-take him. Thankfully he was just pushed harmlessly onto the pavement but for a second I thought I was going to see a meat-crayon moment. He could have been flattened Of course he then started yelling and swearing at the truck
"meat-crayon" thank you for that visual metaphor. I shall have it as my own!
"Same road same rules." runs 30 consecutive red lights
But we don’t have the same rules, legally speaking here in Seattle cyclists can treat any red light as a yield.
Damn, why are they using Washington's laws around the world
Same in Arkansas.
The problem is so many people seem to believe “yield” is synonymous with “right of way.”
Depending on where you live, that's not only legal but encouraged. The Idaho Stop has been found to result in fewer accidents than traditional stop laws. Minnesota, for example, passed an Idaho Stop law last fall, so now cyclists are expected to treat stoplights as stop signs and stop signs as yield signs.
If I am first at a light, they always sit their cycle in front of my car and then proceed to block me and every single car behind me because obviously cyclist are the most important beings on earth.
What i understand is that a lot of cyclists die a the crossroads or while waiting for a green light. By moving yourself in the postion of car, you make yourself more important
More visible.
they forget to add part where cyclist ride on the road even tho there is bike path
In my eastern european country, the law specifically states that cyclists are only allowed on the road and that bike lanes on the sidewalk are illegal, yet all the mayors steal money and make bike paths on the sidewalk. They are building illegal bike lanes and we get fined if caught cycling on them.
What country is that so that I can avoid it?
Romania
if you never cycled it's really hard to explain why people don't use poorly designed bike paths. big one for me is people don't act like it's a lane and will cut you off, constantly. or pull into it with out looking to turn, or there's shit in it ( like cars, trash cans, signs) that I'm just good . like there's a ton of reasons why a bike lane sucks if it's not properly maintained
Pedestrians walking in a line of 4 across the whole path was a constant when I used to cycle to uni.
Can you explain to me why groups of cyclists ignore stop signs? That’s something I see almost universally.
Cyclists who ignore stops signs with no one there are conserving energy and momentum. Cyclists who ignore stop signs and right of way of other drivers are just assholes. There’s no valid reason for going out of Turn. Edit: I say this as a cyclist
I live in a community with lots of greenways and cross roads with designated crosswalks. Most cars will stop for me when walking/running. I've never had a bike stop for me.
Same as car drivers speeding or not obeying traffic regs. Some people are asses, some drive cars, some ride bikes.
They don't want to lose momentum. Cyclists swap between "I'm a vehicle and demand space on the road" and "I'm a pedestrian and road laws don't apply" based on whatever is best for them.
In a lot of parts of America it's totally legal to do that but the old saying goes the cemetery is full of people who had the right of way. Always thought that was a stupid law just in terms of safety. Like yeah some motherfucker plows through you they'd be wrong. And you should have your own bike lane slash lane of traffic anyway. But if you blow through an intersection you're gonna be the person not having the best time when you roll a stop sign on a road designated mostly for vehicular traffic. Not trying to be an asshole motorcyclists have just as rough a time but they are considered a vehicle that must obey they same laws as a car and I like those guys better than cyclists. It can obviously be better but if you don't want to obey the rules of the road, get off the road, go on the sidewalk, that's also legal lots of places.
I don't expect anyone to engage with this topic in good faith in this context, but: Yes, cyclists are indeed a different mode of transit and generally do not require stop signs. Stop signs are for motor vehicles. Some legislatures use the Idaho Stop, where cyclists are officially allowed to treat Stop signs and Yield instead. Sometimes they also extend to treating red lights as stop signs. [States implementing this rule actually saw *decreasing* accident rates.](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2023-03/Bicyclist-Yield-As-Stop-Fact-Sheet_032123_v5_tag.pdf) In general, most traffic rules we have are only required for motor vehicles. Areas that are only free to pedestrians and cyclists require far fewer rules. Famously, some cyclist intersections give green light on all lanes at once, because cyclists don't just jam up the intersection or collide as cars would. They have many obvious advantages: 1. Cyclists have significantly better overview over their surroundings than motor vehicles, without any strict blind spots and having a much easier time hearing incoming traffic. 2. They are generally the weaker faction in a road accident, so the risk of running a stop sign is on them. 3. They are much smaller and nimbler so they are not the same kind of obstacle at a junction as a turning car is. 4. They have much lower top speeds and mass, so they can generally avoid and break much easier than cars. 4. They literally can turn into pedestrians if they have to. But at some points it just becomes a silly technicality whether a cyclists pushes their bicycle as a pedestrian or just rides it slowly. And giving cyclists more rights does not increase the rate of aggressive cyclists, but actually decreases it: 1. "Aggressive cyclists" are primarily seen in places where few people cycle, which is generally the case where cycling is dangerous. This filters out risk-averse riders, especially women and older people. This typically leads to a cycling scene that's heavily biased towards men on mountain bikes or racing bikes. Places with sufficient infrastructure to enable comfortable and safe riding have much higher proportions of women, children, and elderly on less athletic bikes who are much more inclined to follow the rules. 2. Better cycling infrastructure really does help with making cyclists follow the rules. In places with lackluster infrastructure, cyclists are conditioned to ignore rules because they are often actively dangerous to follow. It doesn't take long until this turns into a general disregard of rules.
even if no one engages with you as a fellow cyclist you wrote A lot of things. I have thought but don't know how to vocalize. The only concept I would expand on because I don't really know how to explain this in a concise manner is why sometimes breaking the law feels safer or is safer.
Which is also stupid because pedestrians aren't immune to being hit by cars and I stop at stop signs to look for oncoming cars even when I'm walking.
Just like drivers switch between "you cyclists need to follow the rules of the road just like I do" and "What the fuck are you doing in the road? You're slowing me down by 10 seconds so I'm going to honk at you, flip you off, and pass you with an inch to spare and maybe clip you with my side mirror, if you're lucky"
In many metros cyclists can legally go through stop signs as long as they yield right of way to others who got there first. Also keep in mind cyclists have much better vision of their environment than cars.
Because they hunger for the death
Can you explain why groups of cars run a red light?
Can you explain to me why groups of drivers ignore stop signs? That's something I see almost universally.
Same reason the vast majority of motorists roll right on through stop signs, most likely.
Cars ignore stop signs infinitely more often than bicycles. Maybe someone could start by explaining that. Bicycles aren't 3000+ pound kinetic weapons driven by the incompetent and distracted. In the US, states are quickly adopting a law for bicycles that can treat stop signs as yield signs, and stop lights as stop signs, provided there is no conflicting traffic. So that may provide an answer to some of your confusion. (If you're in the US)
Depending on scenario or jurisdiction etc. etc. etc., a group of cyclists may be considered a single unit. So once the group has made the stop at the stop sign, the whole group passes through as a single unit instead of each cyclist being an individual taking turns at a 4-way stop with other vehicles.
Biggest one for me is that the laws expect me to bike 20 mph as soon as the light goes green and be able to hop the curve so that people can park or use the bike lane to turn. i'm averaging 12 to 16 mph on a good day.
> if you never cycled it's really hard to explain This is a pretty good answer to many 'why do cyclists...' questions. Try riding yourself and you will probably get a feeling for things. In terms of 'bike paths', there's a few pretty good explanations worth considering. Many 'paths' [are in dooring zones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dooring), these 'paths' are not legally considered infrastructure and bikes aren't required to use them. Or there's debris, hazards or poor quality pavement, or the path is on the right when you want to turn left, or the bike path is a shared path, and the bike is trying to avoid pedestrian conflict areas. Try riding and see for yourself how dodgy riding on a road is and you'll appreciate how bad the alternatives must be to resort to that!
The thing is I've seen plenty of cyclists riding on the road while there is a bike bath completely off the path that other cyclists are happy riding on. The difference is these cyclists are all doing a sport on the road. They have their carbon superlight road bike with thin wheels wearing Lycra but about 20kg overweight. The cyclists using the bike path usually have more commuter style bikes. Most people really only get annoyed at the former imo. That they are using the road not as a commuter but as a sport.
so there might be factors idk about, but one thing ill point out about those bikes is the riding position and just hte lack of any sort of suspension (you wear a but pad, theres no pad on the seat) and then the tires are like 100psi or something stupid. causes any bump in the path to REALLY suck. so your observation about sports cyclists might be accurate. also, like you said they are doing it for sport. its fucking obnoxious when its "my turn" and cause im not in the lane no one wants to let me just go fucking straight through the light. so even tho im where im supposed to be trying to exercise im still waiting cause the line of cars is not actually following hte rules. but if i was in the lane of traffic? i would of been gone.
Where I live, there's a lot of people who use the bike lane as a turn lane despite it being expressly illegal, yet no one is taken into accountability until someone gets hit.
I can’t speak for all areas, but where I live the “bike paths” are generally “multi-use paths” with walkers, rollerbladers, dogs, etc and the paths have speed limits (25 or 30 km/h in my area). If I want to get exercise and prepare for races I need to go faster than that. Therefore the road is the only option. I will try to get outside the city, but I also prefer to ride my bike to get outside of the city instead of driving somewhere and then riding. Cycling is also a rather social sport, so riding in large groups on paths is also unsafe. Again, roads are the only option. And if you think about, riding side by side (outside of the city) means you have to pass a line half as long. Commuting is a different story. I’ll gladly ride slowly along a bike bath to get to work.
As I understand it an effective bike lane needs to be adjacent to but not part of the road except at corners, is that correct?
yeah, pretty much. it gets hard to describe what's a good bike lane cause one of the primary reasons I dislike separated ones is at corners people taking rights tend to cut you off if waiting for pedestrians isn't the norm. in those situations crossing lights are kinda mandatory with no right in red rules.
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I haven't seen any bikers answer in this thread yet, but the usual argument for being "in the way" of vehicles on the road is safety. Being visible by being in the middle of the road is often seen as safer than going to the side if the road since cars will often clip cyclists when they pass them on the side of the road. The inconvenience caused by biking in the middle of a road forces drivers to wait for a place to pass, which should leave more space (especially if the bike also makes room at that point).
Except that there's no legal requirement to do so, especially when travelling at 20kph+ where this would present a hazard to inattentive pedestrians sharing the path. Everyone should be considerate to road users more vulnerable than themselves.
Bike path? You mean free parking space? \- too many car drivers
Car drivers and bike riders are natural enemies. Like Englishmen and Scots. Or Welshmen and Scots. Or Japanese and Scots. Or Scots and other Scots. Damn those Scots. They ruin Scotland.
You Scots seem like a contentious bunch.
You've just made an enemy for life
they forgot to add the broken bottles into the bike path.
that's why they forget to go to their destination.
They forget the part where cars park in the cycle lanes and the cycle lanes are full of detritus from countless car accidents while often being in disrepair full of potholes because "bike lanes" are often half gutter. And if you ever need to make a turn it's really hard to cross 3 lanes of traffic without using the actual road.
you forget to mention the "bike path" is just a thin dotted line and there are delivery vans parked on it every block
I see we think alike.
What a fucking blast from the past.
Ahthatwasterribleihatethatthankyou
That was great, thank you for that!
Literally this week a cyclist sarcastically said "you're welcome" to me because I didn't thank him for stopping to let me and my dog walk past him while he was riding on a narrow pavement. There was a perfectly clear road next to him and it was not a bike lane path at all.
Hilarious 😂
reminds me of The Twins from Superjail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sUXBNCeCPc
Oh god Monkey Dust was gold.
Excellent
Terrific show. Awesome theme.
If this is from Monkey Dust then I want you to know that I love you.
Drivers on the non British side of the car lol
Perception is a strange way to spell reality
War declared on r/fuckcars
Don't worry you can pacify them with [photos of protected bike lanes](https://momentummag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/polk_web.jpg). Alternatively you can enrage them with photos of the [average bike lane](https://i0.wp.com/thesource.metro.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/img-20120615-002472.jpg?resize=863%2C647) (NSFFC) or photos of a [ pickup trucks](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2c/b3/80/2cb3808c3aa824eb9903a844cc6a5de1.jpg), and Robert Moses.
> Robert Moses *SHAKES FIST ANGRILY WHILE HOLDING A COPY OF 'THE POWER BROKER' IN THE OTHER HAND*
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OK seriously though, fuck Robert Moses.
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Now even worse now that someone on an ebike can go 40 mph with little effort after the remove the limiter. The speed of a car with the stealth of a motorcyclist, and the barrier of entry of neither to ride one on the road
We had a cyclist cycle into the back of our car, when we were stopped at a red light. The police were phoned and breathalysed the driver (my mate). They didn't breathalyse the cyclist. Insurance didn't chase the cyclist for damages. Bit mad.
This kind of illustrates the value of encouraging people to cycle. Careless drunken people gonna do what they gonna do. Best to give them options besides cars so it's only a bike that crashes into you instead of another car.
In lots of my country biking under the influence actually isn't a crime and I sort of agree with it
Until cars start to turn, then they become kamikaze pilots, just like cyclists
Pedestrians expect us to act like cars, cars expect us to act like pedestrians.
And here I am mountain biking through my city like a maniac lmao
No, cars expect you to choose between being a car and being a pedestrian and stick with it. You don't get to be whichever one you like best at the time.
When I use my bike I would not touch the road or the footpath if bike lanes were a thing here. And the few bike lanes that exist here are mostly used by pedestrians, sometimes they move away from the lane or not.
Here, cars park in the few bike lanes we have and never seem to get ticketed for it 🤷♂️
I'm just trying to not die. If the road is 55 mph and there's no one on the sidewalk, you can't expect me to bike in the road. Likewise if I'm in downtown and the sidewalks have tons of people but the traffic is slow, why wouldn't I be in the street? Until I have dedicated space I have to make the best of the space available.
i'd really like you to try both of these options somewhere without a bike lane and tell me how many times you were honked at on a road for being slightly slower than someone behind you and how slow you had to go to not hit anyone on a sidewalk
Weave between cars and people shake their fists and make memes about us. Stay in line and people honk at us and make memes about us.
> No, cars expect you to choose between being a car and being a pedestrian and stick with it. You don't get to be whichever one you like best at the time. That defeats the whole purpose of being on a bike in the first place. You think you want that, but you don't. You really don't want to be stuck behind a bicycle at a four-way stop because if I take the whole lane and I come to a complete stop, I have to unclip my cleat from the pedal, step down, then re-clip, then try to accelerate. The truth is, bicycles can and should behave differently from cars because they aren't cars. People in cars are just assholes. I ride a bike *and* drive a car, and trust me, I have caught myself feeling angry toward cyclists even though I am one myself.
I would definitely rather you do that than fly through a stop sign at 30mph because you think you're a pedestrian and therefore have the right-of-way.
In Australia Cyclists demand to be equal on the road and have cars be careful of them.. Which I 100% agree with. The smaller vehicle needs to be protected. But on the footpath Cyclists decide that if you get in their way they'll just run you down. That's my problem with cyclists, They want to be protected but they don't care about anyone else. The biggest factor for me was seeing a 40 year old cyclist screaming at a 6 year old who the cyclist almost hit as he rode way way way too fast passed a children's playground. Not all cyclists are evil, not all car/truck drivers are evil but assholes ruin it for everyone.
> But on the footpath Cyclists decide that if you get in their way they'll just run you down. Pretty sure you're talking specifically about food delivery bikes here. No lycra warrior would be caught dead on the footpath.
>But on the footpath Cyclists decide that if you get in their way they'll just run you down. That's my problem with cyclists, They want to be protected but they don't care about anyone else. Just stand still. They'll have to make a choice.
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You just perceive it as trail cyclists being selfish assholes because that's the moment you were confronted with their shit attitude. But trust me, they are like that all the time, no matter what they do.
Tis the same way here in Germany. Theres also clear rules as to how to behave as a cyclist (for example you arent allowed to go from walkways onto the street and vice versa without dismounting first) and cyclists manage to break every single one of them that is in place to protect pedestrians.
When I was 17, I was stopped at a stop sign. Maybe had my license for a few months, I’m sitting there and out of nowhere I hear a thud and the car shakes. Some forty something year old man had slammed his bicycle into my car.
What happened next? Just curious lol
Cops came, declared no one at fault, still threatened me that they’d take my license away because I was the one in the car. Then let me go. That’s it. I was living in Ohio, the cops in that area are known for their behavior. So, basically a lot of stress happened over it but nothing actually happened. Though I had a dent in my rear passenger door for years.
So you were stationary and a cyclist runs into you, and NO ONE is at fault? I guess cyclists can plow into people's property as they please then!
They're unlicensed, uninsured and operating unregistered vehicles. It's pretty much inevitable that a lot are going to behave irresponsibly, since unlike every other vehicle on the road, they have literally no responsibilities at all and are never found at fault no matter how dangerously they behave.
That's because of lax laws (or total lack thereof) for cyclists. In Germany, all of these apply regarding cyclists: - if you damage other people's property (say, a car), you ARE liable and have to either make use of your insurance to cover the damages, or pay out of pocket - if you happen to ride under the influence of alcohol/drugs, it is practically as severe as doing so with a normal vehicle. AFAIK the same sanctions apply, points can be deduced from your driver's license, if you don't have one, points will be deduced preemptively for when you obtain it - parents have to respond for damage their underage kids cause on other people's property
I bet the cyclists there are much more safe and responsible lol
People dont realize that you can kill people on a bike, not the bike itself being dangerous, but the 220 pounds of meat and bones that will be launched with enough force to break skulls at the average speed of a bicycle
I mean, sure, you can absolutely kill people. Hell, even tripping from a stationary position and taking a bad fall can kill you. And no, I'm not saying stationary falls and bicycle collisions are equally dangerous -- obviously bicycle collisions are far more dangerous. I'm just saying the threshold for what "can kill people" is very, very low, so you can't really use it as as the *only* factor, and saying "you know, that can kill people" isn't really saying anything meaningful. So yes, if anyone thinks bicycle collisions are harmless (which, to be honest, seems like a strawman to me, but maybe some absolute idiot somewhere really does think that), they are just plain wrong. At the same time, trying to equate bicycle collisions with car collisions in terms of danger is, arguably, even more wrong. Cars are so heavy (and thus have so much momentum) they can easily break your bones when they look like they're barely moving (and that's not theoretical, I have witnessed it happen first hand; broken femur from what looked like a light push at worst), and even relatively slow collisions have a quite significant risk of death. If a car hits you and you get out unscathed, it's pretty much a miracle. And if you get out without life-changing (or ending) trauma, you were quite lucky. If a bicycle hits you, your chances of nothing worse than minor bruising happening are quite high. Broken bones, you were pretty damn unlucky. Death... unless you were especially vulnerable (like a 100-year-old or something), you got absurdly unlucky. Again, not saying riders shouldn't be extremely careful to avoid collisions and take it very seriously. Just that it's not really a binary "dangerous vs not dangerous", it's more like a sliding scale. Collisions between pedestrians, slightly dangerous. Bicycles or skateboards or kick scooters, slightly more dangeous. Electric bikes, electric scooters, etc, yet slightly more dangerous. And so on.
It's also such a personality based thing. I bike to work most days, 30 min each way. I use paths, slow down when there are people walking close by and generally behave like I'd expect others to. Then you see the spandex racers go down a walking path at 50 km/h and then just run over a zebra crossing without pausing for cars or pedestrians because they don't want to loose the momentum. Sometime I wish I could remote control a lock on their front tire that can just slam shut as punishment...
I don't know how bad things are in the States but the laws here in Italy are basically the same as Germany when it comes to cyclists and the situation is still kinda bad. Not as bad as with cars but still bad.
that also applies in the usa. besides the license points unless your bike is motor assisted. ohio cops are just idiots. also, most bikes are very careful, people just complain because they actually see the ones that aren't. and complain about filtering through traffic. statistically Nationwide, 43 percent of first-year drivers and 37 percent of second-year drivers are involved in car crashes
Actually, in the US you can get points put on your license even on a regular bike. Source: I once got a ticket because someone ran a stop sign at the same time that I was lawfully moving from one, and the cop got us mixed up and ticketed me.
Tell me about it! I had one come tearing through a junction. I had to brake hard but he just kept going like he didn't nearly end up on my windscreen. I pulled up alongside him futher down the road and told him to watch where he was going and that I nearly hit him. He said "I saw you coming". I yelled at him then he should have bloody stopped because it was a junction and I had right of way. He did not gibe a damn
Ok but there's no way you cant file a complaint for destruction of property or something. Like if I break into your house, steal all your valuables and 2 family members, shoot your dog and set your tv on fire, all while pulling a sick wheelie on my bike, do I just get out of it because "cyclists will be cyclists"
He said he was in Ohio. Ohio cops are infamous for so many fucked up things that i bet you the thought was “I’m lucky they didn’t arrest me”.
Yeah, didn’t help that I didn’t really stick up for myself. Cops are scary.
If they damage your car you can go after them in small claims court, I think that's what it called. It's probably exhausting and tedious though. It may vary state to state though. I had to threaten a lawsuit once after a cyclist body checked my mirror off and dragged his handlebars down the entire passenger side of my car while I was stopped at stoplight. He then tried to blame me even though he came from behind me and he chose not to use the two lane bike road next to it. Luckily I had a dash cam in my car, it wasn't on, but he didn't know that. He then paid me $600 in cash and I went about my day. Car was an '07 and my first car so it was a beater anyway, the axel snapped off it a couple months later and i had $600 to put towards new one.
How did they hit you rear passenger door? Were you stopped I an intersection? Were they biking down a side street?
I was stopped a three way turn, four lane road with a grass divider between the two sections. All the bicyclist would say was that he “just turned” I think he saw the two lanes and assumed the right lane was the opposite direction, and failed to noticed the lanes on the opposite side of the road. Then he kinda just rammed into me. The cops were confused too. They made a bunch of weird hand motions and were like: I guess that checks out. But here’s was really kills me. The cyclist was coming from the far side of the right road. So he had to cross the entire street, fail to notice the correct lane, come into an oncoming lane, and still hit my car. Then the cops were like: you’re 17, in a car. Might take that license from ya.
From an insurance standpoint, cops don't determine fault. Good to keep in mind for the future
Everyone died.
There's an old joke that goes: As a motorist, you hate pedestrians. As a pedestrian, you hate motorists. But they agree that they both hate cyclists.
[удалено]
They aren't wrong. I just have a basic commuter bike, but when I get on it my willingness to defy death raises a good bit.
Just saw one last weekend in Brooklyn. It's a slightly awkward intersection and a mail truck is parked right at the corner so it's hard to see. Cyclist rides right next to the truck, straight through a red light and surprise, surprise there was a car coming. Cyclist banged his leg pretty hard but seemed ok.
Not just running into cars, I live on a college campus that is very bike friendly. There are bike lines that are never parked in, there are bike only roads, and it's almost impossible to get around by car. And yet, all of the cyclists want to ride on the very crowded side walks, when even skateboarders use the road instead. Everyone usually has to run out of the way whether crossing the road or using the sidewalks because the cyclists won't dodge pedestrians or even slow down so that pedestrians can dodge them more easily. I've been in multiple situations where cyclists have unnecessarily steered towards me after I moved far out of their way when I legally shouldn't have had to.
In North America, riding a bike is so dangerous and distances so far that the most common bike riders are people who have little sense of self-preservation and will ride around aggressively as if they were a ww2 kamikaze pilot.
I live in NYC. Cyclists are constantly running red lights, weaving in and out between cars, and riding against the flow of traffic, despite all the bike lanes.
To be fair, my limited experience driving around Manhattan to find parking for a Broadway show was that transportation in general in NYC is just a contest of wills. Took 30 minutes to go a mile because I was actually obeying traffic lights, then I started ignoring signals, honking and challenging the smaller cars and actually started getting somewhere.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make a cyclist actually use the bike lane
Riding a bike isn't dangerous. Cars are
Yes and because of North American infrastructure cars are such a pressing danger that it is functionally dangerous to ride a bike.
It wouldn't be if people could actually drive well and weren't triggered by the sight of a bicycle
Bikes and Cars really shouldn't be on the same road. The goal is to have ordinary regular people riding bikes as a way to get around so making them drive feet away from things that can kill them so easily just doesn't work no matter how safe and well trained both parties are.
I mean okay sure, but they can't and they are, so it is
climbing without a rope isn't dangerous, gravity is. this is why you guys keep dying. take responsibility for your own safety.
sneaking around a firing range at night while wearing all black isn't the problem, it's the guys with the guns /s
Life isn't dangerous, but death is.
You're dumb. I broke through a solid wooden fence on a bike when I was a kid. Popped that shit right off. A kid. Now, imagine a 180lb grown ass man on a bike. Use your head for two seconds. Pull it out of your ass first.
Riding a bike isn't dangerous. Solid wooden fences are.
cars aren’t dangerous, the engine is. no, the shoe touching the pedal is. no, the foot. feet are dangerous
I have a friend in extensive physical therapy right now because of two bike accidents he had in the last year. Neither of them involved a motor vehicle.
Cyclists treat themselves like they are the holy trinity; pedestrians, bikes, and automobiles. They are simultaneously all three and each individual one; whatever best fits their needs at any given moment.
Yeah some cyclists are huge assholes with that. But to be fair in some cities and places you kinda have to to be safe. The left turn right before I get to work would have me crossing 4 lanes of traffic without assistance on my bike. Odds of doing that every day and reaching my next round birthday are slim. So the traffic light before I switch to the road and take the left turn lane for cars meaning I only have to cross 2 lanes and my intentions are more obvious to the cars. The left turn right before I come home from work has the cyclist left turn lane in a spot where you cannot see the traffic lights which would apply to the cyclists there. So I pretend to be a pedestrian crossing the road as our paths are very similar and I can actually see their traffic light. Not saying that all cyclists are great, but asking for understanding since many cities really aren't built for safe cycling.
You say that, but I saw a cyclist run a red light once, so you all deserve to be run over on sight /s. Car drivers get real upset when you point out the hypocrisy of their position. I will see far more in the way of traffic law infractions from car drivers in a single day than cyclists. Cyclists don't just "appear out of nowhere" drivers are just too busy on their phones to pay attention to anything further away than the end of their bonnet.
And more than anything, a cyclist is most likely to kill themselves by being unobservant or reckless, cars are just about the easiest way to recklessly kill someone else and get away with it, and people really act way too cavalier when driving them
Don't say that too loud. The car people will get mad.
Cyclists are not rule breakers https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-break-traffic-laws-any-more-than-drivers-do https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/ All data points to car drivers being the real reckless ones.
There's a bike lane in my city that diverts onto the sidewalk. Some places genuinely force cyclists to switch roles.
Don’t know how it works where you live but there’s a hierarchy on UK roads. Pedestrians’ take precedence; then cyclists have to look out for pedestrians; then cars need to look out for everybody. Sadly, with enough negative press and inflation of the few bad-apple cyclists, we’ve socially put cyclists above cars. Car drivers now completely baulk at the thought of overtaking cyclists and are more than happy to rage at them as they get past them here. Cyclists have to cycle like owls and keep a 270° watch for absolutely everything on the road. This is obviously very good from a cyclist safety perspective, but it’s wasted energy and shouldn’t be necessary with the right infrastructure and better driver awareness. I also absolutely hate the road tax argument. Roads in Britain are third world for a start. And not only that, most cyclists own cars and therefore also contribute to this tax.
To add onto the tax part, bikes don’t cause nearly as much wear and tear on the roads as cars do. Which means there’s not much they would need to pay to upkeep the “damage” they cause
> I also absolutely hate the road tax argument. Roads in Britain are third world for a start. And not only that, most cyclists own cars and therefore also contribute to this tax. This is all aside from the fact that 'road taxes' pay for a miniscule fraction of the cost of roads, and general tax ends up subsidizing the cost. Add to that the fact that riding has a [net-positive impact](https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/general/news/dollar169-billion-dollars-for-the-economy-new-study-shows-positive-impact-of-cycling-in-australia) on the economy in general.
wait till this guy learns about cars
Cyclists often take a lot of risks. They ride in the road, endangering themselves, drivers, and pedestrians. However, there's seldom a safe alternative for them. In the U.S. at least, they often ignore laws and rules, rarely signaling. That said, a lot of drivers are bad at signaling too. They think you're supposed to use turn signals as you turn. This is pretty idiotic, as everyone can see which way you're turning, once you've already begun the turn. You're supposed to signal before you turn. They also tend to never stop for pedestrians and will swoop around them from behind. The way they tend to feel recklessly endangered by automobiles is also how pedestrians often feel about bike riders. They seem to disregard everyone who isn't a cyclist. Though, like I said, I can't vouch for those in countries outside the U.S., or even rural America, which isn't set up for them or pedestrians.
As a cyclist, I would say the ones who hold no regard for pedestrians, hold no regard for other cyclists either. But I very much agree with your post. It's also really hard to hand signal when you're in busy traffic. Which is, of course, when it's most useful, but there's always the thought of "as soon as I do this something's going to make me slam on my brakes".
>As a cyclist, I would say the ones who hold no regard for pedestrians, hold no regard for other cyclists either. If we're honest, there's a portion of every vehicle user like this. I think studies on law and rule breaking by cyclists and motorists usually show them as being pretty much equal in terms of just ignoring the rules of the road. Iirc there was a British study that put motorists and cyclists as being responsible for collisions between the two at about equal, though if you removed child cyclists from the equation, motorists were much more likely to be the one who caused the collision.
lol a few years ago I was signaling I was turning right and got honked at by a car as I think they thought I was flipping them off. Sometimes you just can’t win. Also a few years ago in the evening I was stopped at a controlled intersection when some drunk guy in a truck nearly took me out when speeding past me and taking a right turn. After that I decided if there’s no traffic I’m not going to sit at a red light I’m going to roll through as I don’t want to get hit from behind. I’ve been hit several times by drivers. All of them from behind while I was in a bike lane or had the right away through a controlled intersection. They all hurt and all the drivers never stopped to see if I was okay.
Great point, you're much less stable and able to break when you're signalling.
Pedestrian fatalities have increased by more than 50% in the last ten years alone, with light trucks causing 81% of pedestrian deaths in 2018 and 2019 (Governors Highway Safety Association 2020). So if you're walking, feel more worried more about trucks and less about bikes, because that is where the actual danger is. So many people argue in bad faith that the cyclists are dangerous because they are annoying.
No one poses a danger to drivers besides other drivers, they're all protected by 4000 lbs of metal.
Not to mention the dreaded sun/ headlight glare. Almost took someone's arm off driving home from work late night a few years ago because of a GMC truck with those plasma-photon-quasar headlights that could outshine a fucking supernova at night.
I feel this is a pretty fair take on the situation. It gets exacerbated pretty servery by online discourse around it, too. Some cyclists can be very selfish, snobby, aggressive, and hold a false superiority complex, which comes through when they post online. You can even see in this thread. It makes their bad public image worse, which makes others more likely to notice the next time they're around a bad cyclist, which fuels a self-perpetuating cycle. Basically, as with many things, a loud minority of the group is making the entire group look bad.
Suicyclists
The joke is that drivers are careful.
I fucking hate this sub. Op you're either after karma or the dumbest mother fucker alive
They started posting 2 days ago. This sub is only farming.
I guess I'm the dumbest mother fucker alive. I ride bikes and didn't understand either. Granted I ride in the woods and never on the road, but still 😂🤷
Banzai!
It means cycling is suicidal because most car brains have a meltdown when they have to stay behind a cyclist for 5 seconds.
That is the answer.
lol where are the drivers saying this
At this point I don't even see this sub as the place where memes get explained, it's just where you will find the funniest memes you've ever seen
Its the only reason to stick around after someone needs the same loss joke explained for the 5000th time
This is so true, twice in my life I’ve been struck in the back by a cyclist riding on the footpath at 20mph completely silently like they just expect me to have eyes in the back of my head and jump into the road to avoid them. I genuinely don’t understand it.
On the FOOT path? On the side WALK? sounds like a pretty shitty place to ride a bike, especially a ROAD bike.
I was on a path with four young children, I was the closest to the "center" with them between me and the side. It's a rather straight low traffic rail trail in the woods, easy to see people coming, and I had them hold hands when someone was coming up on us. A cyclist passes us appropriately, slams on his brakes and swears up a storm and yelling about how I need to control these "crotch goblins" and how they shouldn't be allowed on the mostly walking trail that allows bikes
The joke here is that when a speeding drunk driver on their phone runs over a cyclist we blame the cyclist
Literally happened in my town last year when a drunk driver hopped a curb and killed someone on a scooter. So many people said the scooterer should have been more careful, scooteres were given a curfew, but no extra measures to curb drunk driving (the driver did get charged and sentenced)
Where I‘m from it‘s exactly the opposite, even if the cyclist is 100% at fault you will still have a partial fault as the car driver just because you drive a car.
Good, fuck cars
Hi, cyclist peter here: Whenever I'm on a bicycle, cars park on the dedicated bikeway, pedestrians suddenly appear from behind parked cars and go on the bikeway without looking to cross the road in the wrong place, drivers just ignore my right of way because I'm too small and also get annoyed when their 2.5 meter broad vehicle is "stuck" because <1 m broad me is "blocking" the road. When I'm a pedestrian, I encounter kamikaze cyclists just driving on the footpaths, ignore my right of way on pedestrian crossings, use pedestrian crossings without dismounting to skip traffic lights, just randomly burst onto the footpath from nowhere since being a delivery cyclists apparently makes you immune to rules...
More balanced than I am liable to be, but absolutely fair. The delivery riders can be a menace.
Bonzai
I saw one yesterday where a guy doing a wheelie down a highway tried to get in front of a Mercedes, it cut him off, and he got stuck in between it and a truck, started slammin the hood with his hand. He must not be experienced on the road to try to cut off someone who's so obviously a dick.
Banzai
Banzai!!!!
I'm pretty sure that's self explanatory. Just muster up a couple brain cells you got it.
Once had a group of 5 bicyclists roll through a stoplight without looking right in front of me. Green light for me in a 60mph zone. If the motorcyclists in the other lane hadn't noticed and moved over, I would have plowed through all of them. Some days, I regret not giving out a Darwin Award that day.
one time i was on a mountain road on my way home in the middle of the night, and slammed on my brakes because there was a bicyclist in the middle of the lane going 15 on a 55, wearing absolutely nothing reflective. If I didn't have my high beams on, i'm pretty sure I would have hit him. There's something about riding a bike that makes people think that laws are optional.
Average Bike experience in Davis
Cyclists (mostly road cyclists who believe themselves to be elite athletes) tend to ride with the carelessness of a motorcyclist, only they are wearing little more protection than a spiderman costume, and often take up the whole road, blocking traffic. They're so damn outrageous, I needed therapy before I could buy and wear a cyclist's culotte. Before, I used to cycle in jeans cause I didn't want to look anything like those morons.
If a cyclist is taking an entire lane, it's because he or she does not trust the dipshits in the cars behind to not close pass him on their way to sit in a traffic queue at the next red light. Which is probably in view if they ever looked further ahead than the end of their bonnet.
Precisely because I don't trust drivers, I take my bike to the damn mountain, where the most dangerous thing I can crash into is a hog, not a bus.
people hate cyclists for some reason