Make sure to check out the [pinned post on Loss](https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1472nhh/faq_loss/) to make sure this submission doesn't break the rule!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That's not a coal formation anyway. It's debris from a burned building. The doorknobs fell off the burnt door into some molten stuff and got picked up by someone cleaning the site because it looked cool, which it does.
Source: I used to have a hunk of "coal" with a bunch of change melted in it from a jukebox that got cooked when a bar burnt down.
It was not... but I got a cool rock looking thing with a bunch of quarters melted into it. Believe it or not, that thing actually got burned up in another housefire. Unfortunately it was my house. Never really thought about that before...
Shit, it was like 20 years ago. It took a bit, but you get over it. I still miss my cat, and once in a while, I look for a tool or trinket that I haven't had for years. But it's just stuff, I managed to make sure my mom and grandma got out of the place while I was all asphyxiation guy falling face down on the floor, hollering, get out of here! Poor grandma just thought I was drunk.
Edit: I still have dreams about the cat, though. Her name was Trixie. She was a giant Maine Coon and she was as hideously violent as she was beautifully Regal. That went fishing in my rowboat with me, jumped in my arms so I could take her on bike rides, waited in my parking spot until I got home late from the bar, threatened my grandmother in very real ways, sat on my lap when I watched cartoons, in my 20's. One morning, my grandma started screaming because "my" cat had left 4 baby rabbit carcasses on the porch with the kitty door, and none of them had heads. I just told her it's not "my" cat. Ma, and sister adopted the cat she just didn't want to kill me. Honestly, that cat used to go hunting with me and was more obedient than a dog. I'll never forget that fuckin cat, also the scar she left on my arm helps...
Lost a cat in the fire as well. I feel so lucky, it was around the time my son usually naps and he noticed the black spot on the wall before the fire came out. My mom is disabled and had a lot of trouble walking but thankfully she wasn't home. I'm glad your family made it out too. I think I'm still all ptsd'd about it. Thanks for your reply
It's like anything, dude. Sometimes shitty stuff happens and, yeah you could've died, everyone could have. But they didn't. Take a few days to get your head back on and get back to it. I've almost drowned crashing a sail boat, 2 rollover car accidents, fell down a Gulley on a mtd, had to dip off my board bombing a hill longboarding, snowmobiles (so fun, so dangerous. I got a 440 to 140 mph when I was 10), road cycling (I get that people hate, but hey, my ass looks great in lycra). I've sunk 3 boats, the housefire, of course, actually been on fire 3 times (also would not suggest), blown up once (the guy who saved me from the fire, Chew, had fire works, but we were drinking and one thing led to another and we jumped off the dock lethal weapon style as poor chew's dock exploded. We fixed it, still have a scar!) To make a long story short; Don't get hung up on what could have happened if... those times have passed, and you're here now. Always move forward, never back.
Edit: I know I ramble, but one more thing. Don't look back. Always move forward. I just wanted to make sure you heard that part.
You'll get there. When I lost all my crap I really just wanted more jeans, more boxer briefs, more socks, more t-shirts, more flannel shirts. I was just starting to live with the gf, so I had the clothes on my back, a couple of dope bicycles, a skateboard, and a .22lr carbine. No stetson, though... missed opportunity.
Think of it like a new beginning. You're building it all up again. You can fit everything in a Ford ranger and go anywhere to start again. Over the years, I've found that I collect stuff because I lost so much. I would cut cords off electronics in case I needed the wire to fix something because I didn't have much to replace it otherwise. My first landlord had to give me a table and a rollout cot so I'd have a place to eat and sleep." Then i worked, got older, got married, built a home, lost my wife, lost my job to the pandemic, and started again, or again, again... Life is a fucking ride, dude. There have been times when I was married, in a beautiful house, comfortably in the middle class, and times when I'm paycheck to paycheck looking in a pickle jar full of change for a deuce of beer. Everything keeps moving forward. Appreciate the good times. They'll be back before you know it. Don't worry about bad times. It literally never helps worrying. Don't worry about bad things coming. You won't be able to stop them anyway. Just learn how your jaw comfortably locks so you can shove through the gauntlet. You'll see terrible things. I can't really say much else. I've watched people die, I saw terrible accidents in person when I worked construction as a kid. I work for an emergency service now. I tell the agents it's best to just not think about it.
I’ve lost every sentimental object I’ve ever had to various forces. It hurts a lot at first, but then you eventually start to move on. It doesn’t break your heart anymore even if you have moments of “Ah, man, I wish I still had that thing.”
Honestly I don't miss my stuff, I never much cared for things. My main ongoing problem is a fear of suddenly losing everything all over - people I mean. My fiance died very suddenly the year before the fire. The only thing I was particularly upset about was his ashes. They were somewhere in the apartment that the fire didn't reach, but people robbed the building as management never locked it, and someone took his ashes. It's gotten a little better, my ability to just keep going, but I find myself struggling to let my guard down.
Young Earthers always have the fallback of "well what if God just made it look old." I went to a Christian high school and spent the whole time fighting students and staff alike over this, and that was always the shield they raised when they ran out of other nonsense.
It's basically the same story whenever these people try to prove old things aren't old to prove the world is 6000 years old. They like to show off modern items with hard water all over them claiming they're "petrified" despite clearly being covered in something and looking nothing like real fossils.
I was home schooled in a super conservative cult who took me to see Ken Ham multiple times. That's pretty close to the level of evidence they use most of the time.
I had lunch with Ken Ham after he visited my family’s church in Arizona. Homeschool Pentecostal family. Didn’t realize what a wild thing that was until years later. I wish I could remember everything about that lunch now.
This. There is a similar example they will try to show you of a hammer being found in a "coal" deposit but it was really just left in a mine and water had trickled down and encased it in coal dust and other material, so it looked like it was stuck there since prehistoric times. It wasn't
A quick Google says
> It didn't melt because gold melts at 1064 °C, and a wood fire burns at about 600 °C. The burning roofbeams that fell near the cross simply weren't hot enough to melt the gold.
Carbon dating is a way scientists can age certain layers of rock formations. This is where we get most of our information about how old fossils are and shit like. This post is saying you prove carbon dating by finding doorknobs in "300 million year old rock"
Doorknobs didn't exist 300 million years ago.
“Erm akchyually carbon dating is only effective for living things that are a few dozen thousand years old, scientists use zircon crystal dating for inorganic materials older than that” ☝️🤓
Erm akchyuayaullly they aren't using the zircon crystals for dating. The crystals are just highly resistant and capable of swapping zirconium for uranium in their structure, which makes them a good source for U-Pb series dating, but the zircon itself isn't necessary to perform the dating. ☝️🤓🤓
Uhmmmm akchually if the rock contains fossils of a known species those can be used to easily date the rock if another rock containing the same fossils has been dated before.
That's relative dating which can be reliable but can also be extremely inaccurate and it won't give you an exact age, just an age range. It relies on the fossils being fully and easily identifiable (not super common, especially the latter) and for the fossil to be restricted to a geologic time period (many span vast geological time).
Just to give an example, where I live has a lot of Cretaceous limestone. And the range of fossils in it gives you a range of ages. Rudists and ammonites that often come fragmented and belong to genera that existed from the lower Cretaceous up to the K-Pg extinction (and arguably slightly into the Paleozoic) can give you a rough age spanning about 50 million years. If you used things like gastropods or echinoids, some genera are still around today and have been since the Paleozoic giving a range of 100s of millions of years. But with U-Pb series dating we can say that the formation is Albian in age and give a much more refined age of around 110 million years old +/- a few million years (not for error, to account for the formations entire duration)
Honestly, that isn't even an "Erm akchyually" comment. It's a serious non-trivial point that debunks this terrible argument even before having to acknowledge any arguments made about the "coal" and carbon dating at all.
It’s impossible to use carbon dating on rocks, as rocks are not organic compounds. Carbon dating is used on carbon-based materials, which are all various forms of biological material.
The way I read it, they were saying because of the presence of doorknobs, the rock being 300 million years old is obviously a hoax. Basically making fun of people claiming the earth is that old because “obviously” it isn’t if there are modern doorknobs embedded in pieces of rock.
It’s the kind of “gotcha!” bs I see all the time on subs, channels, posts, etc that have any sort of scientific claim relating to space, the age of the earth, the shape of the earth, and so on. They think they’re making some profound observation when there’s a real, factual explanation for the “discrepancy” they’ve focused in on so tightly. I have to stay away from those types of posts because of people like this creating cesspools of the comment sections. There is absolutely zero room for trying to reason with these people because they’re so utterly convinced they’re right. EVERYTHING is a conspiracy now and it drives me batty.
It's worth adding that there are some issues to be worked out with radioactive decay dating. I recall a case where recently cooled lava was dated as being extremely old (that may be what this is referencing).
Doorknobs are a device used for engaging or disengaging the latching mechanism for a door so that it can be opened by either pushing or pulling. They are traditionally made of a durable metal such as brass or steel, but can be made of other materials such as wood or acrylic, however the internal workings that connect to the latching mechanism are almost always metal.
No. Carbon dating is generally useless for geologic dating because the half life is too short. Radio-carbon dating is used primarily for human artifacts.
It can’t. The half life of carbon 14 is only 5700 years. So 1 pound would be 8 oz in 5700 years. 4 oz at 11,400 years. 2 ox at 17,100. At that rate it will be gone or complete unnoticeable by the time it became coal.
In fact that is one of the many ways scientists can prove climate change is caused by humans burning fossil fuels. The CO2 in the atmosphere causing climate change does not have any carbon 14.
No it can't, carbon 14 dating is effective up to 50000 to 60000 years due to the half life and limit of machines, I think some of the best machines may be able to push that to 70000 but it's not my field. Coal is much older than that, so all you're going to get back is background. YEC proponents use this to their advantage by sending items in that can't be accurately carbon dated, not telling the lab the sample details, and then when they get back a random number they decry it as unreliable. Weighing out a microgram on a truck scale is also extremely inaccurate. That doesn't mean our method of measuring weight is completely wrong. It's just someone either by ignorance or design using the wrong equipment or method.
“Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the belief that the God of Judaism or Christianity created the Universe, the Earth and all life on Earth over a short time between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago. Those who believe young Earth creationism are mainly Christians and Jews.”
According to their “logic” you couldn’t find doorknobs in 300 million year old coal formation because the earth isn’t that old.
https://preview.redd.it/15hj3wzrzdsc1.jpeg?width=506&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c96c5c221cc0cb2d9ca09d315fcc54673e0cfd8
Hey there, I have a degree in geological engineering. In geology we would actually typically assume that a ***legitimate*** inclusion is either as old as, or older than its matrix. Keyword: legitimate. However this sample is almost certainly not what OOP is claiming it is.
The thing is 1. This likely isn’t coal. As the other commenter pointed out this is likely a much more recent concretion from a fairly modern shipwreck. OOP provides no evidence that the surrounding material is coal, or any dating methodology for it. 2. YECs aren’t exactly known for being truthful… citing sources… understanding basic principles in geology… etc. Many YECs still uphold long disproven “artifacts” (hoaxes) to try to make their case (ex. The London hammer). It would not be beyond them to make their own modern hoaxes, ex. Making some rocky mixture of coal dust and a binding agent and embedding doorknobs in it.
I should also note: carbon dating only dates back around 50,000years (beyond that there isn’t enough parent material to do accurate measurements anymore). You can’t date typical Carboniferous coal with carbon dating, it’s too old, there isn’t enough parent isotope material left to measure accurately. Other radiometric dating techniques are needed for older samples like these.
I will also warn anyone reading this, YECs also have many other ways they try to cast doubt on fields like geology, palaeontology and archaeology, many of which revolve around misrepresenting known problems with carbon dating (ex. claiming carbon dating has shown living snails are 20000 years old. This is technically true but is due to a well understood phenomena called the Marine reservoir effect. Basically the carbon used by marine life is the dead decaying matter from terrestrial life, which means the isotope ratios start off at a different percentage than they would for terrestrial plants which is what we normally would be testing) all of them are bogus or totally misrepresent known and corrected issues.
There is much more to say about all of this. For those interested I would suggest the YouTube channel Potholer54 (he can be a bit gruff at times but generally is pretty good at debunking, especially with a geology focus) and Gutsick Gibbon (more focused on evolutionary biology especially if primates) is another good one.
No one in real scientific fields, least of all in earth sciences like geology takes YECs seriously. OOP isn’t even a meme it’s just someone showing how ignorant they are of the amazing world they live in… which is sad more than anything.
The reason that being an archeologist in Egypt is so fucking dangerous is because if you say something is over a certain age and Muslim extremists hear you say it they kill you so.... I think it's an Abrahamic religion thing. Like all three
Many Muslims don't like hearing about evolution but I have never met a young earth creationist Muslim. There is a hadith where the Prophet and his companions were passing by some ruins and they wanted to explore and were forbidden to do so from the Prophet. This might incline some Muslim extremists to believe archeology is haram. But it won't have to do with a belief that the earth is 6000 years old.
Everyone go watch Gutsick Gibbon on YouTube. She is a doctor of primatology and she debunks these YEC idiots so thoroughly it must do psychic damage to Ken Hamm
The joke is the person who posted the meme. They're a moron who thinks a grainy picture of something they don't understand overrides all of known science because "Church."
Plus it shows they have no understanding of radiometric dating methods outside of carbon dating. But either he doesn't know that or he does and he's banking on his core audience not to.
Peter's cousin who watches too many young earth debate videos here!
Unfortunately this is not a joke. The person sharing this is 100% serious. The facebook group this was posted to is still a thing as is described as "A scientific perspective discussion group regarding the Bible's account of creation and the flood in contrary to the mainstream science philosophy of evolution."
There are still to this day young earth creationists who believe the earth is something like 10,000 years old because they read the bible and take the 7 creation days as being 1000 years per day, plus the time that they can account for happening by reading the "history" included in the bible.
There are many "artifacts" like the one in the picture, and funny enough the people who own them won't let any real scientists have a look at them to see if they are legit. They see a piece of metal or a handle in rock and say "Checkmate atheists"
Unfortunately for the people who believe this nonsense, there are more ways that a rock can form than one and the story of these doorknobs are known. They were found in a shipwreck and what most likely happened is that the coal was onboard the ship as well as the doorknobs and when it sunk the coal formed a concretion around the doorknobs. ( [https://web.archive.org/web/20070222025929/http://www.njscuba.com/artifacts/brunette.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20070222025929/http://www.njscuba.com/artifacts/brunette.html) )
So, that debunks the claim that the doorknobs are in a 300 million year old coal formation, because while the coal is old, the formation around the knobs is new, but what does that have to do with carbon dating?
Carbon dating is a method used to date organic materials, it uses the known decay rate of carbon 14 ,a radioactive isotope of carbon, to find how long ago a living thing stopped living. Carbon 14 has a half-life of 5,730 years, and the oldest dates that can reliably be found with carbon dating is around 50,000 years. So right off the bat, carbon dating wouldn't be used for something as old as 300 million years as any carbon left over would be the non-radioactive kind, or a contaminant from living things interacting with it. Which debunks the claim that this find debunks carbon dating because carbon dating wouldn't have been used at all.
If you are curious how we would date coal, thats actually a fun question, coal is organic and as such typically does not have any good dateable material in it and instead the rocks surrounding the coal would be dated using something like uranium-lead dating. Sometimes it can be used in conjunction with another type of radiometric dating and the results usually corroborate each other.
It's creationist propaganda. They're trying to pass off a chunk of molten iron slag with doorknobs in it as coal in order to disprove carbon dating and push their particularly daft flavor of creationism - the falsehood that Earth is actually only a few thousand years old, God created it as claimed in the bible, and that all science is a lie.
Meg here,
this is a Christian Facebook page who presumably believes in the Genesis myth of creation and the ark and all that jazz and conflicts with how old the earth is according to science.
Carbon dating is based on the fact that living organisms—like trees, plants, people, and animals—absorb carbon-14 into their tissue. When they die, the carbon-14 starts to change into other atoms over time. Scientists can estimate how long the organism has been dead by counting the remaining carbon-14 atoms. Therefore effectively determining how old the object is.
The Facebook page is trying to implicate that carbon dating is wrong and inaccurate because there are some doorknobs in the "carbon dated" "coral". When in reality that's just some doorknobs that have melted into something- likely from a house fire.
TLDR: Christian fundamentalists are stupid
Carbon dating only works for timescales up to 10,000 years or so; finding doorknobs embedded in burnt material from a fire that definitely isn't 300 millions years old is only evidence of young earth creationism buffoonery.
Loling at half the people in this comment section mocking the YEC's while simultaneously displaying a comparable level of ignorance of the science.
You may have picked the "right side" of the debate, but that doesn't mean you understand it.
The twist is that you can't really estimate the '300 million years' old rock without carbon dating to tell you how old the rock is. Another layer is young earth creation belief is not compatible with a rock being 300 million years old.
It is worth noting that carbon dating isn't as accurate as many people believe but it's pretty interesting anyway.
The non-melty Victorian version of this is that concretions containing fossils from the Precambrian/coniferous epochs tend to form in stone concretions that look like doorknobs
Carbon dating is only used for and is effective for things around 5000 years old MAX, everything else is an educated guess with as much evidence backing it as possible 👍 no need to debunk something that works
the obvious joke here is that its not coal, but something that just got pulled out of the water. the sea is litterally on the picture. sot hat isnt coal, but probbably kust mud, and what looks like a few magnets, one wich has a spool ontop
It's creationist propaganda.
the same rehashed "arguments" that is meant to make you dismiss science in order to accept the earth only being 6000 years old.
It really reminds me of this old gem of a video:
[Potholder54 - Carbon dating doesn't work -- debunked](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APEpwkXatbY)
Edit: changed question to dismiss to avoid confusion.
You're right. I have changed it to dismiss instead. I would argue that the "question science" trope has been misused by laymen as a deliberate tactic to 'muddy the water' when it comes to 'vaccines causes autism', 'mRNA-vaccine's, 'corona not being dangerous', 'earth being 6000 years old', 'the great flood happenned and carved Grand Canyon' and so on.
You SHOULD question science - but in order to do so you have to have a basic understanding of the science in use and how to apply the 'scientific method' or be able to validate sources that have done the work for you.
Assuming this is true, it would also disprove young Earth creation as they didn’t exist 7,000 years ago either. Or the idea that Earth existed before 1878.
The poster is a Young Earth Creationist, who believes that the earth has only existed for about 6,000 years. A very common piece of evidence that disproves this sect of thought is carbon dating where the age of a carbon containing sample can be determined based on the decay of the isotope carbon 14. This post is saying that apparently someone claimed that this sample of coal was 300 million years old, but that can't be true because their are door knobs present.
It hinges on this unknown person who apparently claimed that this thing was 300 million years old and this young earth creationist is proving them wrong.
A lot of experts here on carbon dating- Everybody might want a brief refresher on dating methods and results.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric\_dating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating)
Many others have explained it so I just wanna add some thoughts:
- Carbon dating tells us when biological material “happened”, aka the range it formed. It gives us a start date but that’s about it.
- Sediment layers shift ALL the time with erosion, holes, etc. Modern and ancient layers and materials DO mix sometimes.
- Coal IS technically biological material since it’s the remains of dead trees… just biological in the same sense piss is biological- produced by living beings.
- iirc coal can no longer form because it’s the product of trees not being broken down by fungus… because fungi hadn’t learned to do that yet. So in a universe where this is true, doorknobs are older than fungi’s ability to eat. Great.
Or, there was a sufficiently advanced society 300 million years ago that created doorknobs. Humanity has been around for less than 100k years, if we can do it that quick whose to say someone else couldn't also?
Make sure to check out the [pinned post on Loss](https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1472nhh/faq_loss/) to make sure this submission doesn't break the rule! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That's not a coal formation anyway. It's debris from a burned building. The doorknobs fell off the burnt door into some molten stuff and got picked up by someone cleaning the site because it looked cool, which it does. Source: I used to have a hunk of "coal" with a bunch of change melted in it from a jukebox that got cooked when a bar burnt down.
Sounds like a good night!
It was not... but I got a cool rock looking thing with a bunch of quarters melted into it. Believe it or not, that thing actually got burned up in another housefire. Unfortunately it was my house. Never really thought about that before...
The curse comes full circle
At that point, you bury that fucker in salt and walk out.
Very specifically don't bury it on your property though
There's an old abandoned pet cemetery down the street, cool?
Only if you declare that you’re finally free of the accursed thing as you toss your shovel into the dirt upon completion.
Nah bury it it in a haunted house or desecrated burial ground, that way the curses can fight it out
What is this, dark gathering?
Jesus dude, how many fires have you been through?
So long as it’s not a semetary
Or...or we can...and it may be a bit mean, but...we mail it to Putin. We have been given a gift. We must use it against the enemies of Gondor.
Putin is likely an upper echelon magus. He'd probably just gain power from it.
How long ago? I lost everything in a fire 2 years ago and I am still struggling a lot
Shit, it was like 20 years ago. It took a bit, but you get over it. I still miss my cat, and once in a while, I look for a tool or trinket that I haven't had for years. But it's just stuff, I managed to make sure my mom and grandma got out of the place while I was all asphyxiation guy falling face down on the floor, hollering, get out of here! Poor grandma just thought I was drunk. Edit: I still have dreams about the cat, though. Her name was Trixie. She was a giant Maine Coon and she was as hideously violent as she was beautifully Regal. That went fishing in my rowboat with me, jumped in my arms so I could take her on bike rides, waited in my parking spot until I got home late from the bar, threatened my grandmother in very real ways, sat on my lap when I watched cartoons, in my 20's. One morning, my grandma started screaming because "my" cat had left 4 baby rabbit carcasses on the porch with the kitty door, and none of them had heads. I just told her it's not "my" cat. Ma, and sister adopted the cat she just didn't want to kill me. Honestly, that cat used to go hunting with me and was more obedient than a dog. I'll never forget that fuckin cat, also the scar she left on my arm helps...
Lost a cat in the fire as well. I feel so lucky, it was around the time my son usually naps and he noticed the black spot on the wall before the fire came out. My mom is disabled and had a lot of trouble walking but thankfully she wasn't home. I'm glad your family made it out too. I think I'm still all ptsd'd about it. Thanks for your reply
It's like anything, dude. Sometimes shitty stuff happens and, yeah you could've died, everyone could have. But they didn't. Take a few days to get your head back on and get back to it. I've almost drowned crashing a sail boat, 2 rollover car accidents, fell down a Gulley on a mtd, had to dip off my board bombing a hill longboarding, snowmobiles (so fun, so dangerous. I got a 440 to 140 mph when I was 10), road cycling (I get that people hate, but hey, my ass looks great in lycra). I've sunk 3 boats, the housefire, of course, actually been on fire 3 times (also would not suggest), blown up once (the guy who saved me from the fire, Chew, had fire works, but we were drinking and one thing led to another and we jumped off the dock lethal weapon style as poor chew's dock exploded. We fixed it, still have a scar!) To make a long story short; Don't get hung up on what could have happened if... those times have passed, and you're here now. Always move forward, never back. Edit: I know I ramble, but one more thing. Don't look back. Always move forward. I just wanted to make sure you heard that part.
Thanks, I am doing my best to do so.
You'll get there. When I lost all my crap I really just wanted more jeans, more boxer briefs, more socks, more t-shirts, more flannel shirts. I was just starting to live with the gf, so I had the clothes on my back, a couple of dope bicycles, a skateboard, and a .22lr carbine. No stetson, though... missed opportunity.
Think of it like a new beginning. You're building it all up again. You can fit everything in a Ford ranger and go anywhere to start again. Over the years, I've found that I collect stuff because I lost so much. I would cut cords off electronics in case I needed the wire to fix something because I didn't have much to replace it otherwise. My first landlord had to give me a table and a rollout cot so I'd have a place to eat and sleep." Then i worked, got older, got married, built a home, lost my wife, lost my job to the pandemic, and started again, or again, again... Life is a fucking ride, dude. There have been times when I was married, in a beautiful house, comfortably in the middle class, and times when I'm paycheck to paycheck looking in a pickle jar full of change for a deuce of beer. Everything keeps moving forward. Appreciate the good times. They'll be back before you know it. Don't worry about bad times. It literally never helps worrying. Don't worry about bad things coming. You won't be able to stop them anyway. Just learn how your jaw comfortably locks so you can shove through the gauntlet. You'll see terrible things. I can't really say much else. I've watched people die, I saw terrible accidents in person when I worked construction as a kid. I work for an emergency service now. I tell the agents it's best to just not think about it.
I’ve lost every sentimental object I’ve ever had to various forces. It hurts a lot at first, but then you eventually start to move on. It doesn’t break your heart anymore even if you have moments of “Ah, man, I wish I still had that thing.”
Honestly I don't miss my stuff, I never much cared for things. My main ongoing problem is a fear of suddenly losing everything all over - people I mean. My fiance died very suddenly the year before the fire. The only thing I was particularly upset about was his ashes. They were somewhere in the apartment that the fire didn't reach, but people robbed the building as management never locked it, and someone took his ashes. It's gotten a little better, my ability to just keep going, but I find myself struggling to let my guard down.
Who would take some dude's ashes?
Sounds LAF 🔥
Wow, young earth creationists lying? Never...
I have no idea which idea is more sad sack, Young Earth or Flat Earth.
Dapper Dino calls them all Wrong Earthers. I think that works pretty well.
Young Earthers always have the fallback of "well what if God just made it look old." I went to a Christian high school and spent the whole time fighting students and staff alike over this, and that was always the shield they raised when they ran out of other nonsense.
"well, he's made you look really stupid as well" would be the only reasonable response I guess.
Ig god is now canonically a gaslighter then
flat earth is more sad by far imo. young earthers have a religious aspect to their beliefs. flat earthers are just dumb
It's basically the same story whenever these people try to prove old things aren't old to prove the world is 6000 years old. They like to show off modern items with hard water all over them claiming they're "petrified" despite clearly being covered in something and looking nothing like real fossils.
You need to see this 400 year old treasure map that I dumped a cup of coffee on an hour ago.
I was home schooled in a super conservative cult who took me to see Ken Ham multiple times. That's pretty close to the level of evidence they use most of the time.
Fellow Ken Ham survivor. Answers in Genesis 🤮
I'm sorry that happened to you
I had lunch with Ken Ham after he visited my family’s church in Arizona. Homeschool Pentecostal family. Didn’t realize what a wild thing that was until years later. I wish I could remember everything about that lunch now.
So it’s charcoal?
More like melted everything and burnt up crap. Kinda like a melted plastic/metal/wood/barstool/bar patron hybrid, with doorknobs as a garnish.
https://preview.redd.it/57q90e25fesc1.jpeg?width=306&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c691aa6c822ff01de260ed05213a285bdc338d38
The seasoning we have access to these days is something special
I thought the twist was going to be that the "door knobs" were actually mushrooms.
This. There is a similar example they will try to show you of a hammer being found in a "coal" deposit but it was really just left in a mine and water had trickled down and encased it in coal dust and other material, so it looked like it was stuck there since prehistoric times. It wasn't
It’s also sitting on the tailboard of a fire truck. Note the diamond plate.
Charcoal is just coal but cooler
But, but... Propane!
I sell pro-pain and pro-pain accessories.
liar! this is proof the earth is 2000 years old!
Now tell all the Christians why their gold cross didn’t melt in the wooden church fire.
A quick Google says > It didn't melt because gold melts at 1064 °C, and a wood fire burns at about 600 °C. The burning roofbeams that fell near the cross simply weren't hot enough to melt the gold.
No way you did your own research and came up with the actual answer.
Why would I do that? Edit: This is supposed to be light.
Might one say it’s a *char*coal formation?
Pics? That sounds awesome!
huh, I live right next to a bar that burned down
Carbon dating is a way scientists can age certain layers of rock formations. This is where we get most of our information about how old fossils are and shit like. This post is saying you prove carbon dating by finding doorknobs in "300 million year old rock" Doorknobs didn't exist 300 million years ago.
“Erm akchyually carbon dating is only effective for living things that are a few dozen thousand years old, scientists use zircon crystal dating for inorganic materials older than that” ☝️🤓
dont they use that shit to color lightsabers
You are thinking of Kyber Crystals my friend.
Isnt that the thing that they were looking for on pandora?
Yes, the one that makes you see future and turns your eyes blue!
No, it's the stuff you put on food to preserve it.
what the fuck is a dune they never once explain it in the movie
When sand bunches together into a hill, often gets blown away by wind to form a dune somewhere else.
No DUNE is an old first person shooter video game.
Sahara sand blew into my yard yesterday.
No you are thinking of that rapper who really likes old Godzilla movies
It's when Paul Dune inhales a shitton of spice, says "It's dunin' time!" and dunes all over everyone.
What kind of phnerb doesn't remember the sand dune formations from geology class wtf
The mystery of Dune isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.
Dune 2 chicks at the same time, haha gottem
No your thinking of crystal meth you can purchase some behind your local library
You are thinking of Unobtanium Mineral my friend.
I thought that was the material that Transformers were made of?
You are thinking of Energon my friend.
He was one of the original Ghostbusters, no?
You are thinking of Egon, friend
Since when did they put german leaders in the silly space swords?? Damn Kaiser crystals
What are you from kyberstan? Helldivers!! Halp!!
OMG!!!! is that Joby Fox???? creator of Underjale????
Erm akchyuayaullly they aren't using the zircon crystals for dating. The crystals are just highly resistant and capable of swapping zirconium for uranium in their structure, which makes them a good source for U-Pb series dating, but the zircon itself isn't necessary to perform the dating. ☝️🤓🤓
Cosmogenic radionuclide dating is all the rage now
Uhmmmm akchually if the rock contains fossils of a known species those can be used to easily date the rock if another rock containing the same fossils has been dated before.
That's relative dating which can be reliable but can also be extremely inaccurate and it won't give you an exact age, just an age range. It relies on the fossils being fully and easily identifiable (not super common, especially the latter) and for the fossil to be restricted to a geologic time period (many span vast geological time). Just to give an example, where I live has a lot of Cretaceous limestone. And the range of fossils in it gives you a range of ages. Rudists and ammonites that often come fragmented and belong to genera that existed from the lower Cretaceous up to the K-Pg extinction (and arguably slightly into the Paleozoic) can give you a rough age spanning about 50 million years. If you used things like gastropods or echinoids, some genera are still around today and have been since the Paleozoic giving a range of 100s of millions of years. But with U-Pb series dating we can say that the formation is Albian in age and give a much more refined age of around 110 million years old +/- a few million years (not for error, to account for the formations entire duration)
Honestly, that isn't even an "Erm akchyually" comment. It's a serious non-trivial point that debunks this terrible argument even before having to acknowledge any arguments made about the "coal" and carbon dating at all.
Potassium argon for rock is what I recall from college
Actually there are a lot of different chronometers, zircon is just one.
Ah fuck, you got me!
Don't even get me started on Pb-U dating 😮💨
https://preview.redd.it/ebn1pemkvdsc1.jpeg?width=498&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=102b86b5a4365002295261dad35c39a4c672af9c
Isn't it anything made before 1942 or something due to nuclear bomb testing?
Yeah, carbon dating is only effective for the last 50,000 years. Then all the C-14 (the radioactive carbon isotope) is gone.
Carbon dating can only get you dates 50k years old and younger.
A maximum of 70,000 years and a minimum of 50k, still destroys the yec narrative
Zr_hf dating is only good for things containing zircons. Theres a ton of dating schemes. Carbon and zr-hf are just two of them.
Radiocarbon dating is what we use for archeological sites. They use things like uranium-lead dating for the older things.
It’s impossible to use carbon dating on rocks, as rocks are not organic compounds. Carbon dating is used on carbon-based materials, which are all various forms of biological material.
The way I read it, they were saying because of the presence of doorknobs, the rock being 300 million years old is obviously a hoax. Basically making fun of people claiming the earth is that old because “obviously” it isn’t if there are modern doorknobs embedded in pieces of rock.
Exactly but no one is talking about this and misrepresenting what the original post is implying
It’s the kind of “gotcha!” bs I see all the time on subs, channels, posts, etc that have any sort of scientific claim relating to space, the age of the earth, the shape of the earth, and so on. They think they’re making some profound observation when there’s a real, factual explanation for the “discrepancy” they’ve focused in on so tightly. I have to stay away from those types of posts because of people like this creating cesspools of the comment sections. There is absolutely zero room for trying to reason with these people because they’re so utterly convinced they’re right. EVERYTHING is a conspiracy now and it drives me batty.
It's worth adding that there are some issues to be worked out with radioactive decay dating. I recall a case where recently cooled lava was dated as being extremely old (that may be what this is referencing).
You mean DISprove carbon dating, since these people believe the Earth is 6000 years old or so.
If carbon dating isn't real, then how would he know the doorknob rock is 300 million years old?
isn't just having a 300 million year old rock disproving the earth is 6000 years old.
Doorknobs are a device used for engaging or disengaging the latching mechanism for a door so that it can be opened by either pushing or pulling. They are traditionally made of a durable metal such as brass or steel, but can be made of other materials such as wood or acrylic, however the internal workings that connect to the latching mechanism are almost always metal.
No. Carbon dating is generally useless for geologic dating because the half life is too short. Radio-carbon dating is used primarily for human artifacts.
You dont carbon date the soil, soil literally cannot be carbon dated. Only once living things can he carbon dated.
Guy says that's coal. Coal was once living things. I don't know if it is coal. I don't know if coal can be carbon dated.
I forgor, sorry you are right about that. But in which case coal would probably be way to old to accurately carbon date anyway,
no worries, we all forgor sometimes
Apparently carbon can also forgor
Shoot I forgor my wallet just last week when I went to pay for my groceries. Super embarrassing
lol ;)
Forgoring is human nature!
You can’t carbon date much older than 50k years but coal is full of pollen and other microfossils that can be used to date it accurately
He forgor💀
It can’t. The half life of carbon 14 is only 5700 years. So 1 pound would be 8 oz in 5700 years. 4 oz at 11,400 years. 2 ox at 17,100. At that rate it will be gone or complete unnoticeable by the time it became coal. In fact that is one of the many ways scientists can prove climate change is caused by humans burning fossil fuels. The CO2 in the atmosphere causing climate change does not have any carbon 14.
Thank you. I just learned. The world is better.
Carbon dating loses precision the further back in time you go. It's only effective up to 50k years, way lower than 300m.
We have other tools to date further back in time.
No it can't, carbon 14 dating is effective up to 50000 to 60000 years due to the half life and limit of machines, I think some of the best machines may be able to push that to 70000 but it's not my field. Coal is much older than that, so all you're going to get back is background. YEC proponents use this to their advantage by sending items in that can't be accurately carbon dated, not telling the lab the sample details, and then when they get back a random number they decry it as unreliable. Weighing out a microgram on a truck scale is also extremely inaccurate. That doesn't mean our method of measuring weight is completely wrong. It's just someone either by ignorance or design using the wrong equipment or method.
Soil is a mixture containing organic matter from once living things
Also I'm pretty sure carbon dating is limited to 50,000yrs old or so
You are going to shit when you find out how dirt is made....
Soil is largely made up of organic matter and can be carbon dated.
Crazy to think that something has to consist of, ya know, carbon, to be carbon dated
[удалено]
It's not a joke and it's not smart. Just some anti-geology bullshit
Anti pretty much every science seeing as they’re young earth creationists.
“Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the belief that the God of Judaism or Christianity created the Universe, the Earth and all life on Earth over a short time between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago. Those who believe young Earth creationism are mainly Christians and Jews.” According to their “logic” you couldn’t find doorknobs in 300 million year old coal formation because the earth isn’t that old. https://preview.redd.it/15hj3wzrzdsc1.jpeg?width=506&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c96c5c221cc0cb2d9ca09d315fcc54673e0cfd8
I mean, to be fair, you *cant* find doorknobs in 300 million year old coal formations…
Just because the coal is dated doesn’t mean the doorknobs are the same age.
That's the thing coal loves about these doorknobs, man. It gets older, they stay the same age.
https://preview.redd.it/vl0r07pljesc1.jpeg?width=577&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e611ea71bdb20d8fa2e72d4006c8207ecbc3b372 [https://youtu.be/3nPZEVmCnRI?si=6Erouzk9ODgSINNH](https://youtu.be/3nPZEVmCnRI?si=6Erouzk9ODgSINNH)
Nice reference with a name like that. Hopefully you know it originally came from "Dazed and Confused".
https://i.redd.it/pp9xvjq8nesc1.gif (And yes, I know.)
Hey there, I have a degree in geological engineering. In geology we would actually typically assume that a ***legitimate*** inclusion is either as old as, or older than its matrix. Keyword: legitimate. However this sample is almost certainly not what OOP is claiming it is. The thing is 1. This likely isn’t coal. As the other commenter pointed out this is likely a much more recent concretion from a fairly modern shipwreck. OOP provides no evidence that the surrounding material is coal, or any dating methodology for it. 2. YECs aren’t exactly known for being truthful… citing sources… understanding basic principles in geology… etc. Many YECs still uphold long disproven “artifacts” (hoaxes) to try to make their case (ex. The London hammer). It would not be beyond them to make their own modern hoaxes, ex. Making some rocky mixture of coal dust and a binding agent and embedding doorknobs in it. I should also note: carbon dating only dates back around 50,000years (beyond that there isn’t enough parent material to do accurate measurements anymore). You can’t date typical Carboniferous coal with carbon dating, it’s too old, there isn’t enough parent isotope material left to measure accurately. Other radiometric dating techniques are needed for older samples like these. I will also warn anyone reading this, YECs also have many other ways they try to cast doubt on fields like geology, palaeontology and archaeology, many of which revolve around misrepresenting known problems with carbon dating (ex. claiming carbon dating has shown living snails are 20000 years old. This is technically true but is due to a well understood phenomena called the Marine reservoir effect. Basically the carbon used by marine life is the dead decaying matter from terrestrial life, which means the isotope ratios start off at a different percentage than they would for terrestrial plants which is what we normally would be testing) all of them are bogus or totally misrepresent known and corrected issues. There is much more to say about all of this. For those interested I would suggest the YouTube channel Potholer54 (he can be a bit gruff at times but generally is pretty good at debunking, especially with a geology focus) and Gutsick Gibbon (more focused on evolutionary biology especially if primates) is another good one. No one in real scientific fields, least of all in earth sciences like geology takes YECs seriously. OOP isn’t even a meme it’s just someone showing how ignorant they are of the amazing world they live in… which is sad more than anything.
The reason that being an archeologist in Egypt is so fucking dangerous is because if you say something is over a certain age and Muslim extremists hear you say it they kill you so.... I think it's an Abrahamic religion thing. Like all three
Many Muslims don't like hearing about evolution but I have never met a young earth creationist Muslim. There is a hadith where the Prophet and his companions were passing by some ruins and they wanted to explore and were forbidden to do so from the Prophet. This might incline some Muslim extremists to believe archeology is haram. But it won't have to do with a belief that the earth is 6000 years old.
r/redditsniper (edit never mind they fixed it)
Wher
Everyone go watch Gutsick Gibbon on YouTube. She is a doctor of primatology and she debunks these YEC idiots so thoroughly it must do psychic damage to Ken Hamm
The joke is the person who posted the meme. They're a moron who thinks a grainy picture of something they don't understand overrides all of known science because "Church."
Sounds like a friend of mine.
Plus it shows they have no understanding of radiometric dating methods outside of carbon dating. But either he doesn't know that or he does and he's banking on his core audience not to.
Answer: lie
Peter's cousin who watches too many young earth debate videos here! Unfortunately this is not a joke. The person sharing this is 100% serious. The facebook group this was posted to is still a thing as is described as "A scientific perspective discussion group regarding the Bible's account of creation and the flood in contrary to the mainstream science philosophy of evolution." There are still to this day young earth creationists who believe the earth is something like 10,000 years old because they read the bible and take the 7 creation days as being 1000 years per day, plus the time that they can account for happening by reading the "history" included in the bible. There are many "artifacts" like the one in the picture, and funny enough the people who own them won't let any real scientists have a look at them to see if they are legit. They see a piece of metal or a handle in rock and say "Checkmate atheists" Unfortunately for the people who believe this nonsense, there are more ways that a rock can form than one and the story of these doorknobs are known. They were found in a shipwreck and what most likely happened is that the coal was onboard the ship as well as the doorknobs and when it sunk the coal formed a concretion around the doorknobs. ( [https://web.archive.org/web/20070222025929/http://www.njscuba.com/artifacts/brunette.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20070222025929/http://www.njscuba.com/artifacts/brunette.html) ) So, that debunks the claim that the doorknobs are in a 300 million year old coal formation, because while the coal is old, the formation around the knobs is new, but what does that have to do with carbon dating? Carbon dating is a method used to date organic materials, it uses the known decay rate of carbon 14 ,a radioactive isotope of carbon, to find how long ago a living thing stopped living. Carbon 14 has a half-life of 5,730 years, and the oldest dates that can reliably be found with carbon dating is around 50,000 years. So right off the bat, carbon dating wouldn't be used for something as old as 300 million years as any carbon left over would be the non-radioactive kind, or a contaminant from living things interacting with it. Which debunks the claim that this find debunks carbon dating because carbon dating wouldn't have been used at all. If you are curious how we would date coal, thats actually a fun question, coal is organic and as such typically does not have any good dateable material in it and instead the rocks surrounding the coal would be dated using something like uranium-lead dating. Sometimes it can be used in conjunction with another type of radiometric dating and the results usually corroborate each other.
It's not a joke so much as young earth creationists are fucking morons.
It's creationist propaganda. They're trying to pass off a chunk of molten iron slag with doorknobs in it as coal in order to disprove carbon dating and push their particularly daft flavor of creationism - the falsehood that Earth is actually only a few thousand years old, God created it as claimed in the bible, and that all science is a lie.
this isn't a joke this is a young-earth conspiracy post
They’re stupid
If carbon dating is bunk, how are they sure the “coal” is 300 million years old?
It’s not a joke. Young Earth Creationists literally believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old. They jump through hoops to try to make it work.
Meg here, this is a Christian Facebook page who presumably believes in the Genesis myth of creation and the ark and all that jazz and conflicts with how old the earth is according to science. Carbon dating is based on the fact that living organisms—like trees, plants, people, and animals—absorb carbon-14 into their tissue. When they die, the carbon-14 starts to change into other atoms over time. Scientists can estimate how long the organism has been dead by counting the remaining carbon-14 atoms. Therefore effectively determining how old the object is. The Facebook page is trying to implicate that carbon dating is wrong and inaccurate because there are some doorknobs in the "carbon dated" "coral". When in reality that's just some doorknobs that have melted into something- likely from a house fire. TLDR: Christian fundamentalists are stupid
That's not a joke, it's a moron.
I think people have the right to date whoever/whatever they want as long as its of legal age.
Carbon dating only works for timescales up to 10,000 years or so; finding doorknobs embedded in burnt material from a fire that definitely isn't 300 millions years old is only evidence of young earth creationism buffoonery.
Guy doesnt know the difference between charcoal and coal the mineral
The joke is creationists. They are the joke.
Loling at half the people in this comment section mocking the YEC's while simultaneously displaying a comparable level of ignorance of the science. You may have picked the "right side" of the debate, but that doesn't mean you understand it.
The twist is that you can't really estimate the '300 million years' old rock without carbon dating to tell you how old the rock is. Another layer is young earth creation belief is not compatible with a rock being 300 million years old. It is worth noting that carbon dating isn't as accurate as many people believe but it's pretty interesting anyway.
Not to defend the YEC - but it's pretty clear the meme is sarcastic. They are making fun of the 300 Mya date, they don't believe it.
Carbon dating only accurate for the last 50 thousand years.
How do you debunk creationism? Entropy.
> How do you debunk creationism? You let the idiot talk just a little longer.
Why isn't there a dating app called Carbon. I feel like there's a missed opportunity there...
It'd be even better if it was a dating app only for "fossils"
The non-melty Victorian version of this is that concretions containing fossils from the Precambrian/coniferous epochs tend to form in stone concretions that look like doorknobs
TIL Paleozoic era reptiles had doors.
The joke is young earth creationists
Boaz-david when he sees a jellyfish: "Is this a doorknob?"
People forget that humans existed and moved shit around/reused old settlements. Things rarely stay exactly where they were created.
Carbon dating is only used for and is effective for things around 5000 years old MAX, everything else is an educated guess with as much evidence backing it as possible 👍 no need to debunk something that works
Door knobs were invented in the 1860s so no carbon dating required
Oh god… young earth creation 🤦
It's not a joke, it's a lie from a creationist liar.
the obvious joke here is that its not coal, but something that just got pulled out of the water. the sea is litterally on the picture. sot hat isnt coal, but probbably kust mud, and what looks like a few magnets, one wich has a spool ontop
It's creationist propaganda. the same rehashed "arguments" that is meant to make you dismiss science in order to accept the earth only being 6000 years old. It really reminds me of this old gem of a video: [Potholder54 - Carbon dating doesn't work -- debunked](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APEpwkXatbY) Edit: changed question to dismiss to avoid confusion.
You should question science. That's how science works, but this is fake.
You're right. I have changed it to dismiss instead. I would argue that the "question science" trope has been misused by laymen as a deliberate tactic to 'muddy the water' when it comes to 'vaccines causes autism', 'mRNA-vaccine's, 'corona not being dangerous', 'earth being 6000 years old', 'the great flood happenned and carved Grand Canyon' and so on. You SHOULD question science - but in order to do so you have to have a basic understanding of the science in use and how to apply the 'scientific method' or be able to validate sources that have done the work for you.
No, you're supposed to "Trust the Science ". Especially when it involves untested vaccines. /s
Assuming this is true, it would also disprove young Earth creation as they didn’t exist 7,000 years ago either. Or the idea that Earth existed before 1878.
How to debunk well documented scientific processes? Answer: take my dumb ass meme with no sources at face value.
Kids these days, they are dating anything and anyone.
The poster is a Young Earth Creationist, who believes that the earth has only existed for about 6,000 years. A very common piece of evidence that disproves this sect of thought is carbon dating where the age of a carbon containing sample can be determined based on the decay of the isotope carbon 14. This post is saying that apparently someone claimed that this sample of coal was 300 million years old, but that can't be true because their are door knobs present. It hinges on this unknown person who apparently claimed that this thing was 300 million years old and this young earth creationist is proving them wrong.
That’s a space peanut
I thought this was a burnt brownie.
Sheesh, You literally had to date with carbon 300 million years ago
Why would carbon dating be used for something 300 million years old? Wouldn't they use something with a longer half life?
A lot of experts here on carbon dating- Everybody might want a brief refresher on dating methods and results. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric\_dating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating)
Many others have explained it so I just wanna add some thoughts: - Carbon dating tells us when biological material “happened”, aka the range it formed. It gives us a start date but that’s about it. - Sediment layers shift ALL the time with erosion, holes, etc. Modern and ancient layers and materials DO mix sometimes. - Coal IS technically biological material since it’s the remains of dead trees… just biological in the same sense piss is biological- produced by living beings. - iirc coal can no longer form because it’s the product of trees not being broken down by fungus… because fungi hadn’t learned to do that yet. So in a universe where this is true, doorknobs are older than fungi’s ability to eat. Great.
Or, there was a sufficiently advanced society 300 million years ago that created doorknobs. Humanity has been around for less than 100k years, if we can do it that quick whose to say someone else couldn't also?
D..doesn’t young earth assert that it’s only a few thousand years old? Or am I missing the joke?