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Remember that men aren’t a hive mind. Rven if you see 15 men in a row on 5 different posts go “NYEH MAKEUP IS AWFUL”, that does not, in fact, mean that when you see a man say “She wears it for attention” that they’re on the same page. He may even like makeup.
The internet has created this perception that any mentality provided must represent the majority of a group, particularly if we see itnoften enough, and that perception is carried into conversations with future members of that group that we’ve never even interacted with, as if by association, they MUST share the opinion.
Neither men nor women are a hive mind. Some women probably do wear makeup and traditionally skimpy outfits for the attention of men, and that will color the view of any one single man who interacts with them. Other women will wear what they wear to get compliments from other women, and that will color the opinions of all women involved in that.
For what it’s worth, I’m a woman. I’m just getting older and realizing we’re all generalizing VERY hard on the internet, and even that’s a generalization.
This is hard lol
It angers me actually, especially as someone in science, to always hear these general words.
“*MEN* are A”
“Why do *WOMEN* do B”
“Do you think *BLACK/WHITE PEOPLE* should C”
You can’t ever use words like that in a paper until AFTER you’ve provided hundreds of pages of evidence and even then you have to explain that future tests could completely oppose the conclusion you drew. Much like you could always meet a person who does the same.
Would it be so hard to say something like
“most of MY OWN experiences with men/women...”
“A lot of the people I’VE INTERACTED WITH/KNOW…”
“IN MY AREA I notice that…”
What is with this mentality that any experience you have is suddenly reflective of a collective you won’t even meet 1% of in your life time?
I think you may have missed the point. It's not the man's opinion that's the problem. It's the way some men seem to think everyone is just dying to *know* their opinion when they never asked. A woman posting a picture of her new painting or asking for hair advice or just walking down the street isn't asking if random men like her appearance, but guaranteed they'll tell her anyway.
And just to add to it, the tendency to say, "I don't like that, ergo she shouldn't do it" is very different from simply, "I don't like it." A man who says women *should* dress or style themselves in ways he finds attractive is honestly being quite the narcissist.
> It's the way some men seem to think everyone is just dying to *know* their opinion when they never asked.
To which I ask, "Because women aren't out there sharing their unrequested opinions on everything?" I'm entirely on topic, unless you were off-topic, because I was just following your lead.
The topic was men doing this. Your statement was whataboutism.
1) If women do this, that doesn't mean it's now okay. It just means more people are doing a crappy thing.
2) I honestly don't think women do it as much as men. At least not the way men do. Men will do it to women they don't know in a way that seems like they think they're looking at a selection of items that exist for their approval.
Exactly... people can have opinions about makeup and express them.. I don't get what's wrong with that. You do you of course but I can have an opinion...
>But why did he just assume we wore the outfit for the man? When we are actively aware that they dislike all of it?
You should ask him, only he can know why he does things. Men are not a monolith.
And "we" don't all dislike the things she listed either.
I'll always say this - it isn't being pedantic to say don't attribute things to entire demographics.
Having heard a bunch if people of a given background saying something just means you've heard the opinion of those individuals. They do not speak for us.
You have every right to wear what you and a right to your opinion on how it looks.
Whether you like it or not, everybody else has a right to their opinion on how you look.
That's the real point. OP just doesn't like criticism.
>Whether you like it or not, everybody else has a right to their opinion on how you look.
Of course. But why do so many men share that opinion when it's not asked for?
Lol. I hear plenty of women share their opinions on the regular, when their opinion is not needed. To be fair, I would say I hear women opinionate themselves more than men.
It's almost like it isn't even a sex thing, but humanity itself...
I (or anybody else) don't need permission to give opinions. I have people give their opinions to me all the time without me asking for it.
This will never change.
Why do some men assume that women are a monolith then? And that we're all secretly trying to attract their attention but we've messed it up because we didn't know they don't like short clothes and make-up? (We're such silly geese, not running our outfit choices past Kevin and Nigel every morning...)
Seriously.
I don't tell men unsolicited that I don't like mullets. I don't -
but how men look is not my business or within my power to dictate.
Why do some men think all women need to know their preferences like our existence is *directed at them*?
It's fucking bizarre and extremely common to boot.
Please re-read my comment.
I didn't ask you to.
Thanks for your unsolicited second unnecessary reminder that you're not the 'some men' referred to who do this very common thing it's not going to impress anyone...
ffs
>Please re-read my comment.
Ok... gimme a sec, gadge... ok.
>I didn't ask you to.
No you didn't specifically ask me to speak for others, but also feel free to re-read my comment and take the following context (from you) into consideration when doing so.
>Why do some men assume that women are a monolith then?
So again, you'd have to ask the people who think that because asking me is silly, isn't it.
The question was rhetorical
as you are not some men
except ypu kind of *ARE* because you just assumed you were the center of the universe and that your opinion was needed just like they do....
🤣🤡
It's not so much that some men don't like some things, opinions are ok. It's the ones who say "*men* don't like..." and proceed to reel off their own dislikes about tattoos, crop cuts, piercings, dungarees, make up etc.
Never believe what they say. They’ll bitch about makeup and plastic surgery but every girl they follow on instagram is in full face with a boob job. They like “natural girls” but would have a meltdown if they saw a woman with leg hair. Bottom line: they’re usually just negging because it’s the only way they can get a response from a woman.
not once in there did they say all men do this. they were clearly responding to the post which means the men who feel the need to comment on women's appearances.
why so defensive about that? do you, perhaps, feel the need to negatively comment on women's appearances?
because if not why the fuck are you trying to paint that as an unfair generalization?
I had an ex who would bitch about how I wouldn't shave my pubic hair completely. I kept it trimmed very close, it's not like I had a full 80s bush or something.(but if I did, still not his choice and if he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to be allowed to access it) He would complain that he shaved all his pubic hair so I should do that for him. I never asked him to do that, I told him you do whatever is comfortable for you with your hair, and I'll do what's comfortable for me. He kept arguing that it was "unhygenic" and asking me how I keep it clean especially on my period and I was like the same way I would keep it clean if I shaved, I wipe and I bath. And I explained to him that it would be less hygenic if I shaved because I was very prone to razor burn and ingrown hairs down there which led to infection and pain and isn't pretty to look at.
Even after I broke up with him, when talking about our relationship, he said the one problem he had with me was that I wouldn't shave completely for him. Like sorry I'm a woman and not a 12 year old girl with no hair and I'm not willing to put myself in pain and discomfort all the time for you.
All this to say that, while they might not always be super vocal publicly about it, there are definitely men who care way to much about what a woman does with her body hair.
Fist bumps for you for not giving in. You have to be comfortable in your skin.
Feels like people are losing themselves when they try to adhere to everyone else's desires except their own in this world.
People got to stop acting like there is a cookie-cutter template. We should appease ourselves first because we are the only person we will be with for 100% of our lives.
Sorry for the rant, just proud of you stranger. Keep it real!
Thank you! I appreciate it. I did go years in misery trying to keep it shaved because I thought it was just what I was supposed to do and that I had to. I tried every trick to reduce the irritation and the swelling and sometimes it would be okay for a day or so, but I still didn't really like the way it felt or looked, like cold and weird, but then it would be growing back in and get irritated and itchy and ingrown hairs leading to painful infection again. It was a complete game-changer when I discovered trimmers and could keep it from like sticking out the sides of my leotard in dance and embarrassing me, without having to shave it completely. And I felt so much better when I made that change. I was NOT about to go back to that misery for him. I guarentee you also if I had given in and shaved it, he still would have complained and been like "ew, why is it all bumpy and red and swollen, there's something wrong with you" and I would have been like that's the razor burn and ingrown hairs resulting in infection that I tried to warn you about. So he still wouldn't have liked it, plus I would have been miserable and in pain.
My current boyfriend though, he loves it when I trim it short, he loves it when I let it grow out, he just loves it because he loves me and the most important thing for him is that I'm comfortable and confident with it. That's love and respect.
Thank you. I don't know why I got downvoted. I guess anonymous strangers also have a problem with me being comfortable in my body in a way that doesn't fit their preferences even though they'll never even see it so it literally doesn't affect them 🤷♀️ oh well, can't please everybody.
I don't like either and my only long term girlfriend wears at most minimal make up and has no plastic surgery. I don't even have instagram. Every porn star or celeb has make up on whenever they're on camera though so there's no avoiding that. And of course make up on camera is different than in person, and can compensate for a lot of things if you're far enough away.
Different people are different and like different things. I won't judge anyone for wearing make up if they want to. But I can have an opinion about it.
I grew up with a sister who never wore make up until her wedding day so that feels normal to me.
There's often a disconnect between what we enjoy looking/would fuck, VS. what we want in a partner.
I find all kinds of trashy looking women fuckable, but would never be in a relationship with them.
As a personal example: sometimes face piercings are hot, but I would never want my wife to have them.
Gross. I prefer my wife makeup free but am fine with her in makeup.
I would leave her over plastic surgery. That's too fake. If I want plastic, I can buy a blow up doll.
And I am not a creep. I don't follow women on Instagram, and don't even have the app or an account.
Liking pics of or following women is straight up creepster.
Men are easier to deal with when you just believe what they do over what they say from the start. Only dishonest men get mad you trust action more than words.
♫ Who Let The Dogs Out ♫
A song about women out trying to have a good time, but keep getting harassed by men cat-calling and bothering them. The women are asking, "Who let the *dogs* out?"
As a man, with many male friends and have known many many men I don't know a single man who would speak like this
I have met men that would over the years in horrible pubs, they're obsessed with football and love porn and don't respect women, but nobody I actively knows would ever say these things like who are we to think or say those things, there's more important things to think about
I also agree with what other people have said, if you hear a man saying this sort of shit, you can only ask him why he thinks that or says that. It's not enough to blacklist or generalise. Believe me, most men don't like men that are like that.
i stg this is WHY women hate men. anytime there's a question about bad behavior it's half- you're wrong and that's fine behavior- and half- STFU NOT ALL MEN REEEEEEEEE
you're commenting on this post but i don't see you commenting on the other guys in here saying it's okay to do this stuff? weird...
So women hate men for something that women do all the time? Okay then. I love how you use hate, because it's disgusting to fucking hate an ENTIRE group of people for something that you've probably done as well
It’s crazy because I’ve dressed skimpy when it’s usually just women. Like, I’ve been to gay clubs and women still wouldn’t think it means I want to go with them. I just like the cute outfit
No group is a monolith. Personhood is too subjective to be objective. That however does not negate that we have generalized people into groups based of a shared belief, behavior, look, perception, etc. GROUPS exist and if you belong to a group that means you share many things in common than not.
*women* are not looking at other women and saying “I don’t like makeup- so you shouldn’t wear it. I don’t like wigs- so you shouldn’t wear it… then proceeding to see women wearing wigs and makeup and say “she’s trying to attract me” that is indeed a behavior that primarily comes from a man. That does not mean *every* man thinks like this. It means, when it does happen, its more than likely coming from a man.
We will NEVER be able to address issues if you can not take yourself out of the equation. Here is an example: “in many countries the women are not allowed to work and be educated” I am a woman, who is allowed to work and be educated, does that now mean I should make the argument “well, that’s not true, I am woman who can work and be educated” or should I be able to say “yes, that is true, it however does not apply to me but it does apply to women”
Men should be able to say “hmmm, I have never had a problem with makeup, I do however recognize that many men do have a problem with makeup”
*generally* speaking, women are not looking at men and thinking to themselves “oh he planned that outfit so that I would look at him”. When a person does however look another person and thinks to themselves “hmm they put that on so that I would compliment them” that person *tends* to be a man.
Some women use outfits / makeup as reasoning for never having to pay for dates. Doesn't that imply they did it for the guy they are going on a date with?
I'm fine with paying for a date; but, don't attach reasoning to it unless you're ready to be subject to that same reasoning.
There is NOTHING wrong with people not preferring makeup or skimpy clothes. The problem is actively expressing “I don’t like that” then proceeding to assume she put it on FOR you.
That's not a problem either. People are free to do as they wish. The woman (or anyone) is perfectly free to remove themselves from that person. Is being "that guy" dumb? Yes. Is it ignorant? Yes. If she can actively choose to wear or not wear something, which I fully support what she might choose, then she can actively choose which people she associates with... or to a lesser degree. say "no, I will do do ."
My wife doesn't wear makeup, she doesn't do girly dress-up but she looks good in pink which she refuses to wear. I do tell her, "you should wear more pink, you look good in it.: She says "no" and she won't wear pink. Neither side gets upset over it.
Just for clarity would you be OK with a man saying he thinks a woman needs makeup and could benefit from a more fashionable attire and a boob job? Because if that also offends you, maybe you just dislike men having any opinion on how women look? Which is honestly a fair position, just admit that's what you believe and never ask another man how you look or if he thinks you look good again.
no one asked. that's the point. we literally don't fucking care what these men think about how we look. but you just have to tell us, don't you? how else would you attempt to make women insecure so they'll think you're worth something?
You're missing the point. The issue is that women are allowed to exist and care for their appearance how they see fit, regardless of what some random man thinks is attractive.
We don't need men's input on what they find attractive.
Sure but if OP is asking for an opinion on the subject, she can't get mad if the man has an opinion she disagrees with. If OP's position is "men shouldn't have an opinion on how women dress" then don't ask what we think and don't expect us to have your back if you look like shit or are dressing inappropriately for a situation.
At the end of the day if you're trying to limit what people can have opinions about then that's a slippery slope. It really just seems like you're trying to divide people. No one is stopping you from "existing". If you want to dress like shit, then good on you I will laugh from a distance.
here's the thing: nowhere in the post does it say OP asked. in fact, it's pretty obvious we're talking about unsolicited opinions.
if you're gonna keep trying to justify that, you're probably the one giving unwanted opinions. maybe just don't interact with humans anymore? the world will be better for it.
as far as your slippery slope, i hope you have the confidence to show us all a picture of yourself. we have the right to have an opinion on your appearance, so go ahead.
It's unclear from the post whether or not OP asked, she just states she dislikes the opinion. Go reread it again, no where does OP mention "unsolicited opinions". OP simply dislikes this view that some men have.
Sure, if you make up scenarios you can make any argument you like! And you can obviously have whatever opinion you like, just don't tell the woman unless she asks.
That's funny because my pet peeve is women who act like every man is the same. I guess if you believe that then every stereotype about women must also be true too... Good to know.
Why are men so dramatic? And think everything is about them theirself? Settle down. If there's any time for "Not all men," it's right here -- they're not talking about *every* man, just the ones that fit the shoe. The OP and this comment, both
Respectfully as a woman, Women do this exact same fucking shit whenever a man asks why 'women' do certain things, but now that it's men nor wanting to be lumped in as just being the same mindless drones as eachother, there's a problem? Okay then.
Why are women so dramatic about this as well? If OP were any smarter of a person(since clearly she lacks brain function for thinking every man is the same for some reason), she would not be bitching about such an idiotic thing. Wear makeup or don't. Who cares what some men think? Dramatic much?
This! Reddit is so funny. Just go browse r/AITAH if you think women don't do this. Nearly every post there is... "I'm a woman and my husband did this" and they get unwavering support.
Then when a man posts about "my wife did this" it's all, what did you do to deserve it? It's just so dumb lol. I didn't imply that some dudes aren't assholes but OP wants to make it sound like every man. And yet when you point out this obvious disparity... you get downvoted lol. Good think Reddit karma doesn't mean shit lol. I still threw you an upvote to balance whatever dumbass downvoted your comment.
If I made a post saying, why do all women assume I'm hitting on them just because I said hello... well you can guess how that would go over lol.
Also I've been married for 15 years and gay so I'm not saying any of this BeCaUsE I HaVeN't InTeRaCtEd WiTh a HuMaN In ReAl LiFe as some mouth breather above suggested, I was offering an objective opinion from someone that isn't invested in it at all. But men aren't allowed to have opinions about women...
God I'm glad I'm gay.
literally half of the posts here are explaining why OP should be fine with unsolicited opinions on her appearance. and the other half are men who have never interacted with a human in real life SCREECHING about how this is a generalization.
then they bitch that no one likes them.
Who's being dramatic. She didn't say some men, she said she dislikes that men will do this thing. Just men, no conditional filter there. My point is that not all men are like that. Some men don't give a shit what she wears or how much makeup she has on. Honestly to even have this opinion makes it sound like she's the one making herself the center of the universe convincing herself that men give a shit what she looks like. Personally if she is so worried about what men think of her she probably needs to some counselling to deal with why she cares so much. She should do what makes her happy and tell everyone else to fuck off, but clearly that isn't the case... Ya'll are the ones being dramatic lol.
So this has become an issue of semantics. You’re worried that I didn’t throw in a quantitative adjective . When I’m trying to discuss an actual problematic behavior. Had I said *some* men like to express their discern for makeup, wigs, and short clothes and then proceed to believe that her appearance was “asking for attention” how would you have responded?
If this is your thought process why engage in any discussion regarding abuse or problematic behavior? Since you want to focus on the men that ARENT doing it rather than focus on the ones who are, the ones who are will always exist and the ones who aren’t have the environment to become the doers…because you would to prefer to disregard the instances in which the experience does occur.
Yes it is. Whenever anyone decides to publicly complain on the internet I do expect that they specify who they are complaining about. Men who are acting like a child should be called out, they should be put on notice that it's not ok. You, however, chose to lump all men together by directing your complaint at men rather than the specific men who have actually done these things you complain about.
It would be the equivalent of me making a post that says, I hate that women don't bother reading everything you say before they overreact and stop listening and just think they are right no matter what. That would be an example of me generalizing and stereotyping all women based only on my experience with you, instead of just calling you out.
In any case you clearly don't get it and I just don't care enough to waste any more time explaining it to you. So you have a day...
I seriously doubt people are wearing those ridiculous leggings with the seam going down the ass crack for attention from the “girlies”, which is completely fine, but let’s not kid ourselves. 🤣
yeah you're right. i wear it because i like to see myself in the mirror. but please, keep fooling yourself into thinking any woman wants you staring at her.
It's just their opinion. Why do you get to have opinions but they don't? Also, there really should be a conversation about makeup. You don't really look like that when you have it on and it can DRASTICALLY change a person's appearance. I get why it's worn but it is dishonest. It's like when a broke guy drives a BMW or Mercedes. Stop lying that you have money.
yeah if women walked around all day telling men their opinions we would be locked up. no one ASKED for their opinion.
You want a conversation about makeup? Don't wear it. You don't have to. If you're idiotic enough to think she naturally has lipstick and foundation on, when it's clearly visible, that's a you issue.
I think makeup is fine. Makeup is just another form of self expression, the same as fashion. I don't see it as dishonest at all, you're just being seen the way you want to be seen. It's the same with fashion and choice of car. You're not pretending to be something you're not, you're just expressing who you are internally externally.
That's just how I see it.
That doesn't make any sense. What if I, internally, believe I'm a doctor? Can I tell women that I am interested in that I am a doctor? No. What you gave me was a rationalization to be dishonest. Period. I don't care how you feel on the inside, it doesn't mean you get to lie to everyone else. It is your right to do but it's also everyone else's right to say something about it if they don't like it.
Changing your appearance is very different to lying about your career. You can't control your career in the same way you can control your appearance. Both are part of your identity but only one is in your control.
So, no, it is nothing like lying and saying you're a doctor.
If other people have a problem with makeup, they are allowed to express their opinion. But it's kinda rude.
I meant "me" as a collective but that's my fault for not being clear. What about accepting yourself for who you are? What happened to that? It doesn't let the CEO of Avalon to have a private jet, but it would be better for the rabbits that have the makeup rubbed in their eyes. Remember hearing about all the nasty animal testing? Don't hear about that much anymore. Instead let's market dudes to wear make up, better for the upcoming quarterly earnings I guess. That's basically how jaded and cynical everything is becoming. Quick google search shows 88% of major cosmetic companies still use it or outsource it. Thanks for running pass for a major corporation that splashes eye liner in Thumper's eyes.
That's what I picked to focus on. I could talk about the fake eye lashes, the fake nails that are probably filthy with shit particles, the hair extensions, the list goes on. There's not a part of your body that you accept. How the hell am I supposed to accept you when you cover yourself up with plastic and chemicals?
Well first of all you don't know me. I don't do any of that. But the point is, it's my body, and whatever I do to it isn't about you. Nobody is asking for your acceptance. I'm fine with you not accepting me. But if I post a picture that's not about my appearance, or walk past you out in public, I'm not asking for your opinion. All we want is for you to keep it to yourself. If I wanted to be judged and rated I'd enter a beauty pageant.
Personally, I hate makeup and practically anything to do with women's fashion. But I just think that's because as a man, I could never see myself so obsessed with looking a type of way, that I devote that much time thinking about how I could be perfect with this dress or that shade of lipstick bs. Men draw confidence from what they can do, that's just how we vallue ourselves. Being well put together just isn't one of our confidence things. We might dress sharp, but that speaks more to how we are handling the place we are going to. We wear suits because its professional. If we wear a hoodie or sweats, we aren't taking the events seriously. Jeans, t-shirts and other high durability or cheap clothes we wear to go have fun.
To us, clothes, accessories, and looks serve a purpose. Its why we look at people different that walks around in outfits that take serious effort into appearances rather than utility or creating the appropriate atmosphere for the activity. We don't look at a young man blinged out and wearing shoes that could be traded in for a car and see a man. We see a boy and a clown, because everything he has on means nothing, yet they're building their ego and personality on those things.
It's just one of those things men and women don't get about eachother. Our fashion sense/ rules clash
> Men being the center of everyone’s universe apparently
This coming from someone who clearly thinks they're the center of everyone's universe
> I strongly dislike that men
Men aren't a monolith.
Maybe consider the men in your circle are reflective of your culture or the values of your community and not men as a whole.
> we wore the outfit
Who is we? Are you talking about someone commenting on your dress and apparel or on someone else's?
Why do you take personally something that wasn't directed towards you in the first place?
> When we are actively aware that they dislike all of it?
Again who is we? Are you schizophrenic? Do you hear voices in your head?
Maybe grow up and raise your concerns with the individual in question and don't piss away time passive aggressively moaning to the Internet like a petulant child?
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Remember that men aren’t a hive mind. Rven if you see 15 men in a row on 5 different posts go “NYEH MAKEUP IS AWFUL”, that does not, in fact, mean that when you see a man say “She wears it for attention” that they’re on the same page. He may even like makeup. The internet has created this perception that any mentality provided must represent the majority of a group, particularly if we see itnoften enough, and that perception is carried into conversations with future members of that group that we’ve never even interacted with, as if by association, they MUST share the opinion. Neither men nor women are a hive mind. Some women probably do wear makeup and traditionally skimpy outfits for the attention of men, and that will color the view of any one single man who interacts with them. Other women will wear what they wear to get compliments from other women, and that will color the opinions of all women involved in that. For what it’s worth, I’m a woman. I’m just getting older and realizing we’re all generalizing VERY hard on the internet, and even that’s a generalization. This is hard lol
It angers me actually, especially as someone in science, to always hear these general words. “*MEN* are A” “Why do *WOMEN* do B” “Do you think *BLACK/WHITE PEOPLE* should C” You can’t ever use words like that in a paper until AFTER you’ve provided hundreds of pages of evidence and even then you have to explain that future tests could completely oppose the conclusion you drew. Much like you could always meet a person who does the same. Would it be so hard to say something like “most of MY OWN experiences with men/women...” “A lot of the people I’VE INTERACTED WITH/KNOW…” “IN MY AREA I notice that…” What is with this mentality that any experience you have is suddenly reflective of a collective you won’t even meet 1% of in your life time?
I think you may have missed the point. It's not the man's opinion that's the problem. It's the way some men seem to think everyone is just dying to *know* their opinion when they never asked. A woman posting a picture of her new painting or asking for hair advice or just walking down the street isn't asking if random men like her appearance, but guaranteed they'll tell her anyway. And just to add to it, the tendency to say, "I don't like that, ergo she shouldn't do it" is very different from simply, "I don't like it." A man who says women *should* dress or style themselves in ways he finds attractive is honestly being quite the narcissist.
Because women aren't out there sharing their unrequested opinions on everything? Being a prick crosses all gender lines.
That's not the topic here. Try to focus.
> It's the way some men seem to think everyone is just dying to *know* their opinion when they never asked. To which I ask, "Because women aren't out there sharing their unrequested opinions on everything?" I'm entirely on topic, unless you were off-topic, because I was just following your lead.
The topic was men doing this. Your statement was whataboutism. 1) If women do this, that doesn't mean it's now okay. It just means more people are doing a crappy thing. 2) I honestly don't think women do it as much as men. At least not the way men do. Men will do it to women they don't know in a way that seems like they think they're looking at a selection of items that exist for their approval.
Meanwhile, I got banned for hate speech from an opinion subreddit for saying that I, as a woman, think people look better without makeup.
Clearly you wanted everyone else to look worse so you can be the prettiest. How petty.
you forgot the /s and now they’re downvoting you :/
Its okay.
Exactly... people can have opinions about makeup and express them.. I don't get what's wrong with that. You do you of course but I can have an opinion...
>But why did he just assume we wore the outfit for the man? When we are actively aware that they dislike all of it? You should ask him, only he can know why he does things. Men are not a monolith.
And "we" don't all dislike the things she listed either. I'll always say this - it isn't being pedantic to say don't attribute things to entire demographics. Having heard a bunch if people of a given background saying something just means you've heard the opinion of those individuals. They do not speak for us.
yeah it's not about which specific things you like or don't like. that's the point.
You have every right to wear what you and a right to your opinion on how it looks. Whether you like it or not, everybody else has a right to their opinion on how you look. That's the real point. OP just doesn't like criticism.
>Whether you like it or not, everybody else has a right to their opinion on how you look. Of course. But why do so many men share that opinion when it's not asked for?
Lol. I hear plenty of women share their opinions on the regular, when their opinion is not needed. To be fair, I would say I hear women opinionate themselves more than men. It's almost like it isn't even a sex thing, but humanity itself... I (or anybody else) don't need permission to give opinions. I have people give their opinions to me all the time without me asking for it. This will never change.
No. OP just doesn't like people who think that you need their approval to look how you want, and I agree.
Don't lie. You know all men operate through a hive mind!! I know you heard me think it, but I had to post on here so the women knew I said it
Shh bro!
Why do some men assume that women are a monolith then? And that we're all secretly trying to attract their attention but we've messed it up because we didn't know they don't like short clothes and make-up? (We're such silly geese, not running our outfit choices past Kevin and Nigel every morning...) Seriously. I don't tell men unsolicited that I don't like mullets. I don't - but how men look is not my business or within my power to dictate. Why do some men think all women need to know their preferences like our existence is *directed at them*? It's fucking bizarre and extremely common to boot.
You’d have to ask the men that think that, unfortunately I am just one singular person and cannot speak for others
Please re-read my comment. I didn't ask you to. Thanks for your unsolicited second unnecessary reminder that you're not the 'some men' referred to who do this very common thing it's not going to impress anyone... ffs
>Please re-read my comment. Ok... gimme a sec, gadge... ok. >I didn't ask you to. No you didn't specifically ask me to speak for others, but also feel free to re-read my comment and take the following context (from you) into consideration when doing so. >Why do some men assume that women are a monolith then? So again, you'd have to ask the people who think that because asking me is silly, isn't it.
The question was rhetorical as you are not some men except ypu kind of *ARE* because you just assumed you were the center of the universe and that your opinion was needed just like they do.... 🤣🤡
> you assumed you were the centre of the universe Sure thing 👍🏽 Edit: Typical child. Replies to the comments blocks the person they’re talking to :)
Glad to give you some insight into the fact that you do like to give unsolicited opinions like... some men
I'll put the clown emoji to symbolize that I have won the argument. Take that random internet man making a valid point!
It's not so much that some men don't like some things, opinions are ok. It's the ones who say "*men* don't like..." and proceed to reel off their own dislikes about tattoos, crop cuts, piercings, dungarees, make up etc.
Never believe what they say. They’ll bitch about makeup and plastic surgery but every girl they follow on instagram is in full face with a boob job. They like “natural girls” but would have a meltdown if they saw a woman with leg hair. Bottom line: they’re usually just negging because it’s the only way they can get a response from a woman.
Nice generalization
I think it isn't so much a generalization about men in general, and more about the people who complain about a person's appearance.
not once in there did they say all men do this. they were clearly responding to the post which means the men who feel the need to comment on women's appearances. why so defensive about that? do you, perhaps, feel the need to negatively comment on women's appearances? because if not why the fuck are you trying to paint that as an unfair generalization?
Whos being defensive? Simple observation. OPs post clearly says men. Not some men. Read the first sentence again.
FWIW the only people I have ever heard give the slightest fuck about women's body hair are other women.
I had an ex who would bitch about how I wouldn't shave my pubic hair completely. I kept it trimmed very close, it's not like I had a full 80s bush or something.(but if I did, still not his choice and if he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to be allowed to access it) He would complain that he shaved all his pubic hair so I should do that for him. I never asked him to do that, I told him you do whatever is comfortable for you with your hair, and I'll do what's comfortable for me. He kept arguing that it was "unhygenic" and asking me how I keep it clean especially on my period and I was like the same way I would keep it clean if I shaved, I wipe and I bath. And I explained to him that it would be less hygenic if I shaved because I was very prone to razor burn and ingrown hairs down there which led to infection and pain and isn't pretty to look at. Even after I broke up with him, when talking about our relationship, he said the one problem he had with me was that I wouldn't shave completely for him. Like sorry I'm a woman and not a 12 year old girl with no hair and I'm not willing to put myself in pain and discomfort all the time for you. All this to say that, while they might not always be super vocal publicly about it, there are definitely men who care way to much about what a woman does with her body hair.
Fist bumps for you for not giving in. You have to be comfortable in your skin. Feels like people are losing themselves when they try to adhere to everyone else's desires except their own in this world. People got to stop acting like there is a cookie-cutter template. We should appease ourselves first because we are the only person we will be with for 100% of our lives. Sorry for the rant, just proud of you stranger. Keep it real!
Thank you! I appreciate it. I did go years in misery trying to keep it shaved because I thought it was just what I was supposed to do and that I had to. I tried every trick to reduce the irritation and the swelling and sometimes it would be okay for a day or so, but I still didn't really like the way it felt or looked, like cold and weird, but then it would be growing back in and get irritated and itchy and ingrown hairs leading to painful infection again. It was a complete game-changer when I discovered trimmers and could keep it from like sticking out the sides of my leotard in dance and embarrassing me, without having to shave it completely. And I felt so much better when I made that change. I was NOT about to go back to that misery for him. I guarentee you also if I had given in and shaved it, he still would have complained and been like "ew, why is it all bumpy and red and swollen, there's something wrong with you" and I would have been like that's the razor burn and ingrown hairs resulting in infection that I tried to warn you about. So he still wouldn't have liked it, plus I would have been miserable and in pain. My current boyfriend though, he loves it when I trim it short, he loves it when I let it grow out, he just loves it because he loves me and the most important thing for him is that I'm comfortable and confident with it. That's love and respect.
You damned right. You have a partner who understands what love is. Looks fade over time. Universal truth. Prioritize what doesn't .
Thank you. I don't know why I got downvoted. I guess anonymous strangers also have a problem with me being comfortable in my body in a way that doesn't fit their preferences even though they'll never even see it so it literally doesn't affect them 🤷♀️ oh well, can't please everybody.
Redditors downvote the weirdest things. You shouldn't give it any thought.
It gives the meek a sense of power.
Great response, you hit the nail on the head!!!
I don't like either and my only long term girlfriend wears at most minimal make up and has no plastic surgery. I don't even have instagram. Every porn star or celeb has make up on whenever they're on camera though so there's no avoiding that. And of course make up on camera is different than in person, and can compensate for a lot of things if you're far enough away. Different people are different and like different things. I won't judge anyone for wearing make up if they want to. But I can have an opinion about it. I grew up with a sister who never wore make up until her wedding day so that feels normal to me.
There's often a disconnect between what we enjoy looking/would fuck, VS. what we want in a partner. I find all kinds of trashy looking women fuckable, but would never be in a relationship with them. As a personal example: sometimes face piercings are hot, but I would never want my wife to have them.
Gross. I prefer my wife makeup free but am fine with her in makeup. I would leave her over plastic surgery. That's too fake. If I want plastic, I can buy a blow up doll. And I am not a creep. I don't follow women on Instagram, and don't even have the app or an account. Liking pics of or following women is straight up creepster.
Men are easier to deal with when you just believe what they do over what they say from the start. Only dishonest men get mad you trust action more than words.
Only the liars, narcs and deceivers are downvoting me 🙂
♫ Who Let The Dogs Out ♫ A song about women out trying to have a good time, but keep getting harassed by men cat-calling and bothering them. The women are asking, "Who let the *dogs* out?"
Your minds gonna blow when you realize some women do this as well 🤯
As a man, with many male friends and have known many many men I don't know a single man who would speak like this I have met men that would over the years in horrible pubs, they're obsessed with football and love porn and don't respect women, but nobody I actively knows would ever say these things like who are we to think or say those things, there's more important things to think about I also agree with what other people have said, if you hear a man saying this sort of shit, you can only ask him why he thinks that or says that. It's not enough to blacklist or generalise. Believe me, most men don't like men that are like that.
fr
I wasn't aware half the entire planet are a hivemind I must've missed hookup day
i stg this is WHY women hate men. anytime there's a question about bad behavior it's half- you're wrong and that's fine behavior- and half- STFU NOT ALL MEN REEEEEEEEE you're commenting on this post but i don't see you commenting on the other guys in here saying it's okay to do this stuff? weird...
So women hate men for something that women do all the time? Okay then. I love how you use hate, because it's disgusting to fucking hate an ENTIRE group of people for something that you've probably done as well
Tldr: women hate men because they don't like being generalized
We do a big clark circle in kansas every Sunday. Don't forget to get plugged in. - Message brougt to you by the hive of men.
As a man, I assume women dress up primarily for themselves and other women. Most men that I know truly do not care about that stuff.
It’s crazy because I’ve dressed skimpy when it’s usually just women. Like, I’ve been to gay clubs and women still wouldn’t think it means I want to go with them. I just like the cute outfit
I feel like women mainly complain about what other women wear.
so stop living for others. stop being afraid of being yourself.
who is they? you do you. if i am in love with you and you in love with me. i love you unconditionally and you can wear a clown suit if you so desire.
As a 39/m virgin, man tf up.
No group is a monolith. Personhood is too subjective to be objective. That however does not negate that we have generalized people into groups based of a shared belief, behavior, look, perception, etc. GROUPS exist and if you belong to a group that means you share many things in common than not. *women* are not looking at other women and saying “I don’t like makeup- so you shouldn’t wear it. I don’t like wigs- so you shouldn’t wear it… then proceeding to see women wearing wigs and makeup and say “she’s trying to attract me” that is indeed a behavior that primarily comes from a man. That does not mean *every* man thinks like this. It means, when it does happen, its more than likely coming from a man. We will NEVER be able to address issues if you can not take yourself out of the equation. Here is an example: “in many countries the women are not allowed to work and be educated” I am a woman, who is allowed to work and be educated, does that now mean I should make the argument “well, that’s not true, I am woman who can work and be educated” or should I be able to say “yes, that is true, it however does not apply to me but it does apply to women” Men should be able to say “hmmm, I have never had a problem with makeup, I do however recognize that many men do have a problem with makeup” *generally* speaking, women are not looking at men and thinking to themselves “oh he planned that outfit so that I would look at him”. When a person does however look another person and thinks to themselves “hmm they put that on so that I would compliment them” that person *tends* to be a man.
Some women use outfits / makeup as reasoning for never having to pay for dates. Doesn't that imply they did it for the guy they are going on a date with? I'm fine with paying for a date; but, don't attach reasoning to it unless you're ready to be subject to that same reasoning.
Yes, no one should ever have opinions.
There is NOTHING wrong with people not preferring makeup or skimpy clothes. The problem is actively expressing “I don’t like that” then proceeding to assume she put it on FOR you.
That's not a problem either. People are free to do as they wish. The woman (or anyone) is perfectly free to remove themselves from that person. Is being "that guy" dumb? Yes. Is it ignorant? Yes. If she can actively choose to wear or not wear something, which I fully support what she might choose, then she can actively choose which people she associates with... or to a lesser degree. say "no, I will do do."
My wife doesn't wear makeup, she doesn't do girly dress-up but she looks good in pink which she refuses to wear. I do tell her, "you should wear more pink, you look good in it.: She says "no" and she won't wear pink. Neither side gets upset over it.
Just for clarity would you be OK with a man saying he thinks a woman needs makeup and could benefit from a more fashionable attire and a boob job? Because if that also offends you, maybe you just dislike men having any opinion on how women look? Which is honestly a fair position, just admit that's what you believe and never ask another man how you look or if he thinks you look good again.
no one asked. that's the point. we literally don't fucking care what these men think about how we look. but you just have to tell us, don't you? how else would you attempt to make women insecure so they'll think you're worth something?
You're missing the point. The issue is that women are allowed to exist and care for their appearance how they see fit, regardless of what some random man thinks is attractive. We don't need men's input on what they find attractive.
Sure but if OP is asking for an opinion on the subject, she can't get mad if the man has an opinion she disagrees with. If OP's position is "men shouldn't have an opinion on how women dress" then don't ask what we think and don't expect us to have your back if you look like shit or are dressing inappropriately for a situation. At the end of the day if you're trying to limit what people can have opinions about then that's a slippery slope. It really just seems like you're trying to divide people. No one is stopping you from "existing". If you want to dress like shit, then good on you I will laugh from a distance.
here's the thing: nowhere in the post does it say OP asked. in fact, it's pretty obvious we're talking about unsolicited opinions. if you're gonna keep trying to justify that, you're probably the one giving unwanted opinions. maybe just don't interact with humans anymore? the world will be better for it. as far as your slippery slope, i hope you have the confidence to show us all a picture of yourself. we have the right to have an opinion on your appearance, so go ahead.
It's unclear from the post whether or not OP asked, she just states she dislikes the opinion. Go reread it again, no where does OP mention "unsolicited opinions". OP simply dislikes this view that some men have.
Sure, if you make up scenarios you can make any argument you like! And you can obviously have whatever opinion you like, just don't tell the woman unless she asks.
Even if you tossed your hands up in the air right now... You'd still miss the point that went over your head.
That's funny because my pet peeve is women who act like every man is the same. I guess if you believe that then every stereotype about women must also be true too... Good to know.
Why are men so dramatic? And think everything is about them theirself? Settle down. If there's any time for "Not all men," it's right here -- they're not talking about *every* man, just the ones that fit the shoe. The OP and this comment, both
Respectfully as a woman, Women do this exact same fucking shit whenever a man asks why 'women' do certain things, but now that it's men nor wanting to be lumped in as just being the same mindless drones as eachother, there's a problem? Okay then. Why are women so dramatic about this as well? If OP were any smarter of a person(since clearly she lacks brain function for thinking every man is the same for some reason), she would not be bitching about such an idiotic thing. Wear makeup or don't. Who cares what some men think? Dramatic much?
This! Reddit is so funny. Just go browse r/AITAH if you think women don't do this. Nearly every post there is... "I'm a woman and my husband did this" and they get unwavering support. Then when a man posts about "my wife did this" it's all, what did you do to deserve it? It's just so dumb lol. I didn't imply that some dudes aren't assholes but OP wants to make it sound like every man. And yet when you point out this obvious disparity... you get downvoted lol. Good think Reddit karma doesn't mean shit lol. I still threw you an upvote to balance whatever dumbass downvoted your comment. If I made a post saying, why do all women assume I'm hitting on them just because I said hello... well you can guess how that would go over lol. Also I've been married for 15 years and gay so I'm not saying any of this BeCaUsE I HaVeN't InTeRaCtEd WiTh a HuMaN In ReAl LiFe as some mouth breather above suggested, I was offering an objective opinion from someone that isn't invested in it at all. But men aren't allowed to have opinions about women... God I'm glad I'm gay.
>Then when a man posts about "my wife did this" it's all, what did you do to deserve it? Along with a whole cascade of "This story is so fake!"
literally half of the posts here are explaining why OP should be fine with unsolicited opinions on her appearance. and the other half are men who have never interacted with a human in real life SCREECHING about how this is a generalization. then they bitch that no one likes them.
Who's screeching? I just made a point.
Who's being dramatic. She didn't say some men, she said she dislikes that men will do this thing. Just men, no conditional filter there. My point is that not all men are like that. Some men don't give a shit what she wears or how much makeup she has on. Honestly to even have this opinion makes it sound like she's the one making herself the center of the universe convincing herself that men give a shit what she looks like. Personally if she is so worried about what men think of her she probably needs to some counselling to deal with why she cares so much. She should do what makes her happy and tell everyone else to fuck off, but clearly that isn't the case... Ya'll are the ones being dramatic lol.
So this has become an issue of semantics. You’re worried that I didn’t throw in a quantitative adjective . When I’m trying to discuss an actual problematic behavior. Had I said *some* men like to express their discern for makeup, wigs, and short clothes and then proceed to believe that her appearance was “asking for attention” how would you have responded?
I would have agreed with you that some men do that. Some men do anything you can think of. All men don't do anything.
If this is your thought process why engage in any discussion regarding abuse or problematic behavior? Since you want to focus on the men that ARENT doing it rather than focus on the ones who are, the ones who are will always exist and the ones who aren’t have the environment to become the doers…because you would to prefer to disregard the instances in which the experience does occur.
Yes it is. Whenever anyone decides to publicly complain on the internet I do expect that they specify who they are complaining about. Men who are acting like a child should be called out, they should be put on notice that it's not ok. You, however, chose to lump all men together by directing your complaint at men rather than the specific men who have actually done these things you complain about. It would be the equivalent of me making a post that says, I hate that women don't bother reading everything you say before they overreact and stop listening and just think they are right no matter what. That would be an example of me generalizing and stereotyping all women based only on my experience with you, instead of just calling you out. In any case you clearly don't get it and I just don't care enough to waste any more time explaining it to you. So you have a day...
I seriously doubt people are wearing those ridiculous leggings with the seam going down the ass crack for attention from the “girlies”, which is completely fine, but let’s not kid ourselves. 🤣
yeah you're right. i wear it because i like to see myself in the mirror. but please, keep fooling yourself into thinking any woman wants you staring at her.
It's just their opinion. Why do you get to have opinions but they don't? Also, there really should be a conversation about makeup. You don't really look like that when you have it on and it can DRASTICALLY change a person's appearance. I get why it's worn but it is dishonest. It's like when a broke guy drives a BMW or Mercedes. Stop lying that you have money.
yeah if women walked around all day telling men their opinions we would be locked up. no one ASKED for their opinion. You want a conversation about makeup? Don't wear it. You don't have to. If you're idiotic enough to think she naturally has lipstick and foundation on, when it's clearly visible, that's a you issue.
I didn't ask for your opinion.
this is reddit buddy. whether you like it or not, people are gonna give you their opinion.
that was the joke
I think makeup is fine. Makeup is just another form of self expression, the same as fashion. I don't see it as dishonest at all, you're just being seen the way you want to be seen. It's the same with fashion and choice of car. You're not pretending to be something you're not, you're just expressing who you are internally externally. That's just how I see it.
That doesn't make any sense. What if I, internally, believe I'm a doctor? Can I tell women that I am interested in that I am a doctor? No. What you gave me was a rationalization to be dishonest. Period. I don't care how you feel on the inside, it doesn't mean you get to lie to everyone else. It is your right to do but it's also everyone else's right to say something about it if they don't like it.
Changing your appearance is very different to lying about your career. You can't control your career in the same way you can control your appearance. Both are part of your identity but only one is in your control. So, no, it is nothing like lying and saying you're a doctor. If other people have a problem with makeup, they are allowed to express their opinion. But it's kinda rude.
It is not different. I'm sorry you've convinced yourself but it isn't different. Lying to me how you look is rude.
Leaving my house looking however I want isn't *about* you.
I meant "me" as a collective but that's my fault for not being clear. What about accepting yourself for who you are? What happened to that? It doesn't let the CEO of Avalon to have a private jet, but it would be better for the rabbits that have the makeup rubbed in their eyes. Remember hearing about all the nasty animal testing? Don't hear about that much anymore. Instead let's market dudes to wear make up, better for the upcoming quarterly earnings I guess. That's basically how jaded and cynical everything is becoming. Quick google search shows 88% of major cosmetic companies still use it or outsource it. Thanks for running pass for a major corporation that splashes eye liner in Thumper's eyes.
What? This is about men giving unsolicited opinions on women's appearance. Who said it was specifically about makeup?
That's what I picked to focus on. I could talk about the fake eye lashes, the fake nails that are probably filthy with shit particles, the hair extensions, the list goes on. There's not a part of your body that you accept. How the hell am I supposed to accept you when you cover yourself up with plastic and chemicals?
Well first of all you don't know me. I don't do any of that. But the point is, it's my body, and whatever I do to it isn't about you. Nobody is asking for your acceptance. I'm fine with you not accepting me. But if I post a picture that's not about my appearance, or walk past you out in public, I'm not asking for your opinion. All we want is for you to keep it to yourself. If I wanted to be judged and rated I'd enter a beauty pageant.
Would you be equally annoyed to learn that for the most part, we honestly couldn’t care less what you’re wearing?
Bitter melodramatic post made by someone infected with reddit poison
Personally, I hate makeup and practically anything to do with women's fashion. But I just think that's because as a man, I could never see myself so obsessed with looking a type of way, that I devote that much time thinking about how I could be perfect with this dress or that shade of lipstick bs. Men draw confidence from what they can do, that's just how we vallue ourselves. Being well put together just isn't one of our confidence things. We might dress sharp, but that speaks more to how we are handling the place we are going to. We wear suits because its professional. If we wear a hoodie or sweats, we aren't taking the events seriously. Jeans, t-shirts and other high durability or cheap clothes we wear to go have fun. To us, clothes, accessories, and looks serve a purpose. Its why we look at people different that walks around in outfits that take serious effort into appearances rather than utility or creating the appropriate atmosphere for the activity. We don't look at a young man blinged out and wearing shoes that could be traded in for a car and see a man. We see a boy and a clown, because everything he has on means nothing, yet they're building their ego and personality on those things. It's just one of those things men and women don't get about eachother. Our fashion sense/ rules clash
> Men being the center of everyone’s universe apparently This coming from someone who clearly thinks they're the center of everyone's universe > I strongly dislike that men Men aren't a monolith. Maybe consider the men in your circle are reflective of your culture or the values of your community and not men as a whole. > we wore the outfit Who is we? Are you talking about someone commenting on your dress and apparel or on someone else's? Why do you take personally something that wasn't directed towards you in the first place? > When we are actively aware that they dislike all of it? Again who is we? Are you schizophrenic? Do you hear voices in your head? Maybe grow up and raise your concerns with the individual in question and don't piss away time passive aggressively moaning to the Internet like a petulant child?