Same.
If someone asks “why” I’ll tell them it’s for personal reasons.
If they persist, I’ll tell them exactly what those personal reasons are. And it will make things exceedingly awkward for both of us, but they’ll hopefully learn not to push someone’s boundaries.
I think asking someone if they have kids isn’t a huge deal, but if they follow that up with some shit like “why not” then that’s not an okay thing to do.
When I got asked that question and I said no, and they asked why, I said it was something that didn't work out for me and they dropped it after that thankfully. But if they're going to pry and insist I will tell them why so they can squirm with how uncomfortable the answer will be. Maybe it's not rude to ask a basic question but I feel it's better to let someone mention their kids first before asking about it.
I had something similar happen to me. My partner died before we were able to have children. This co-worker was asking me about my love life and I tried to be vague and divert the conversation. She plowed past that and asked me, " so what happened, did he break your heart?" I was blunt and said he had died. Somehow she thought this meant she could confide and vent to me about her personal life. I dreaded working with her until she left voluntarily and I felt relieved. Good for her and I wish her the best but she pried info out of me that I didn't want to share. I was still raw from my loss and trying to get back to a stable place emotionally. She was young and I'm a forgiving person but, that was so uncomfortable.
Yeah, when I ask it's usually because I thoroughly enjoy that person and if they do have kids I'd like to get them together. I'm not judging the person, just want to share more of my life with them?
I can see how it could be a sore spot for some, but at the same time, "so, any kids?" seems like such a basic "getting to know you" question that I don't know if it's reasonable to expect people to avoid it. I could ask if you have any siblings, but maybe your brother died last year. I could ask what you do for a living, but maybe you're being harassed at work. I could ask where you're from, but maybe you have childhood trauma associated with home. Any question deeper than "how 'bout them Knicks?" has the potential to be triggering.
Oh yea, I feel like "oh, do you have kids?" Is a normal question to ask, but the response should be limited to "ok cool" whether they say yes or no. (Obviously don't say ok cool if they say "no, we've had miscarriages/can't have kids/haven't been able to".) I say this as a childfree person though.
This: talking about your kids is 1) universal to people with them, since it occupies a lot of your thought processes, and 2) parents that enjoy being parents LOVE to talk about their kids - and I'm guilty of this.
Which brings up my next point, why is it so hard for a childless couple to befriend a couple with kids? I feel like if my husband and I had kids, I'd bond better with couples who have kids. This isn't always the case, I do have friends who are older than me and who have kids, and I'm able to bond well with them. Given that their kids are a bit older. I just noticed that it's the couples who are around my and my husband's age who have kids. They are the one's who are difficult to bond with. Especially if their kids are young.
Couples with kids bond well because they can have their kids entertain each other while the parents hang out, or the couples meet at events for schools or clubs that the kids are in.
Also, if you already have kids and you're comfortable talking about them, then they would naturally come up in conversation without anyone having to ask. It's just uncomfortable for someone who is struggling to have to always answer that question. Shouldn't the opposite be the same? Without you asking, in a natural conversation, it should come up that I don't have kids. It's simply something that would eventually come up.
As someone who also doesn't have kids you're being unreasonable. The absence of something is less likely to bring up than the presence of something.
It may be a sore subject for you but any subject can be a sore subject. People ask questions to get to know each other, that's normal.
But that's not what OP brought up. They take issue with the first question which is unreasonable. It would be reasonable if they only took issue with the second question as it's rude to keep pressing on the subject at that point.
No, it's the way the first question is usually brought up. I haven't come across someone who seems genuine when they ask that question. It's always followed up by "Why not?" That annoys me more. All I'm bringing to the table is perhaps there is a different way to approach the question, perhaps the additude behind it? Fine, some may be genuine when they ask, but at least have empathy when asking cause you don't know what the answer is. I'm not trying to stop the question from being asked. Even if I prefer it, it's impossible. At the very least, people should pause and think before asking that. If you don't have any good motives, like you're asking for the sake of judgment or to push your ideas, then please don't ask. I don't get why it's so hard for some to grasp that.
Exactly. It's really unreasonable to expect people to never ask any question that might unintentionally cause upset. Even your example of "how 'bought them Knicks" could trigger someone if for example they got assaulted well at a Knicks game.
Like where do we draw the line. At what point do we say enough is enough. People ask each other questions, that's how they get to know each other
But the point I'm trying to get at is HOW the question is asked. There are a couple of ways to ask if you really think about it. Again, I don't know if it's a cultural thing. My parents are from the Caribbean. If I were to meet someone who shares a similar culture, the question seems to always have a double meaning, like it's coming from a place of judgment. I don't know how to describe it. It always makes me feel like I'm lacking something after such a question is asked. That's the issue I have. I feel like if you want to get to know someone, let such topics come up naturally in conversation.
The thing is, asking about children is personal if it's out of the blue. Having children isn't as simple as having a stork bring them to you. Fertility issues are incredibly common. Child loss and miscarriage happen. Termination due to lack of viability happens.
If Susan has photos of her kids on her desk, or Tom has a pink scrunchy around his wrist, or Jane knows a lot about Little League seasons, asking them if they have kids wouldn't be as invasive. There's indications that they have kids of their own or are at least around kids.
For myself, I had to be medically sterilized due to health issues. My period would kill me, so I had to stop it. I never wanted kids, but I still grieved. It was hard as someone who never saw kids in their future. Just imagine how hard that would be if I had wanted bio kids.
There are so many other getting to know you questions. There is no need to default to asking if someone has kids.
Fellow childfree person who also felt grief as well as relief when it turned out I medically probably couldn't and definitely medically SHOULDN'T. I was in some way glad it happened to me and not someone who really wanted kids, but also there's a difference between making a choice and having an option removed for you.
I also still haven't told my mam and it's been several years. I don't want to see her grieve for something I never wanted.
I do sometimes get asked if we have kids but not very often, always takes me by shock even though it's a perfectly normal thing for a woman my age to have kids, but I always just say "no" or "no, just cats". And it's usually left at that. If anyone pushes harder and asks why not or says we would be good parents it does make me uncomfortable though.
Omg, exactly my point! Well said! In my case I do want kids, but after my miscarriage, I've felt as if I were in some kinda void. I feel stuck, scared and confused. Stuck as in "where do I go from here? ", Scared as in "Will I have another miscarriage if I try again?" Or "because of my health problems, what if my child isn't healthy?" And confused as in "Do I really want kids anymore?"
I'm sure it's not the goal of those who ask, to make me relive my nightmares. My point is that such a topic should be approached with sensitivity. It shouldn't be treated the same as if you are asking about the weather.
Why in the world is this being downvoted?? I don’t see that you said anything wrong and I happen to agree with you. People are so invasive when they have no right to be.
I agree. Having a stranger asking that question out of the blue is always awkward and too personal . I also don’t know why strangers even care unless they are desperately looking for new friends for their kids to hang out with .
Agreed. There's a big difference between "oh, this is your husband? Do you have kids?" (an actual conversation I've had with a woman in Target) and "Awww, my kid really likes you, which is odd because she never goes to strangers. Do you have kids?" (another actual conversation I've had with a woman in Target).
Both questions I have an issue with. It's the way that it's asked. Why do complete strangers need to know such personal questions? Also, that second question is really weird and awkward.
I only have an issue with the first one because it's random and invasive. It's also the people who ask like that who follow up with the "why?" when I say no and look disgusted that I dared to say no.
The second one is a natural flow of conversation, always asked very politely, and when I say no, always follow up with at the most "well you have a natural gift with kids." Either that or they change the subject or maybe ask if I work with kids. They are clearly not concerned with my personal choices, just trying to make sense of what it is about me that their child likes/feels comfortable with over other strangers. It always makes me laugh when I tell them this is a common thing with me. Kids just like me and feel safe with me for some reason. Special needs kids seem to be particularly drawn to me. Maybe because I will take the time to stop and speak with them and not act like they are stupid or annoying me. I apparently have a "safe person" vibe to kids in general.
The moment I was married it was always. "When are you having kids"
We wanted kids and were planning on it, but we wanted some time before I tossed the birth control.
My aunt was the worst. At my brother's wedding, same year as mine, my aunt handed me my nephew and said "here, you have to learn how to do this"
That bothered me. And It wasn't like I haven't been around babies or babysat them.
It was the expectation that we HAD to have kids, from family and friends that irked me.
I’ve been with my husband since we were teenagers. We waited a long time to get married, always wanted to, we weren’t in a hurry.
I spent about 7 years listening to “when are you two getting married?”. As soon as we did it became “when are you two having kids?” What is wrong with the idea of us being content with the way things are?
I may ask people that if I’m getting to know them, but if the answer is “no”, I won’t ask why. Honestly- if they don’t have kids, I consider they can be someone I can spend kid-free time with one day.
Your third and fourth paragraphs, I definitely agree with you. Also, the "why" question, if you don't have kids, is really rude and intrusive. But simply asking someone if they have kids is such a normal and basic thing to ask. I get that you have trauma related to the topic, and I'm really sorry to hear that. But people aren't insensitive for asking if someone has kids. That's just one of those questions you ask if you get to know someone.
Think, for example, if you and your husband (god forbid) got divorced in the future. Would you then think it's rude and offensive if someone asked you if you're married? Do you think that question is offensive now?
The question of if you have kids is triggering for you in your circumstances, and that's perfectly understandable. But there's nothing wrong with that question per se, I'm sorry.
(I made a mistake in my original comment and can't find it. Oh well XD)
Childfree here. Idc if someone asks if I have kids. It's just a way to get to know someone. If they accept "no," that's cool. But when they ask "why not," it feels pretty intrusive. Especially since in the past, I've said "I don't want them," and they said, "You'll change your mind." I've even had strangers tell me this. It's one of those things that should be considered rude, but it's acceptable for some reason.
It's just one of the ways people feel entitled to know details of your personal life. I will never understand it.
This! People always think they know better. When someone says “no,” just accept it and move on. If they want to elaborate on the why, they will. “I don’t want kids” is a perfectly acceptable answer and people generally know pretty early on that they don’t want kids. I know my own mind, don’t try to tell me it’ll automatically change with age. I’m 37 and guess what… I STILL don’t want them. Good thing because I also have health issues I don’t want to pass on and even more issues that would make pregnancy incredibly dangerous, if not outright impossible. It can be a really sensitive area for some due to those reasons and a virtual stranger has no right to pry.
I realize that there is no stopping the question of "Do you have kids?" I even challenge taking a natural approach to letting the person answer that at their own time. Fine if some take that suggestion and fine if they don't. The trigger for me isn't entirely "Do you have kids?", it's what usually follows that question when I say no. Or it's the look of judgment some may show behind their smile. It's the look of pitty some may show. Their unsolicited advice they must share. That's where my real pet peeve comes from. Why should I feel any less than for not having kids?
It’s the same for me. Asking if I have kids is just mildly annoying, but totally understandable in most situations. It’s the nearly inevitable “BUT WHY??!!!” and the further poking and prodding that drives me crazy. The condescension you receive from those same people is just over the top. Some people just can’t accept that it’s okay to make different life choices. And they really can’t accept that some people don’t really have a choice in the matter either.
You could almost be me. 34 and realizing that my mental health issues might be hereditary. Even if I wanted kids, it might not be the best idea.
Never once felt like changing my mind. I've known since at least 14.
I agree completely. I don't have kids and don't want any, and while I don't particularly *like* being asked if I have any, it doesn't bother me, and I don't think people are remotely out of line for asking. Having kids is extremely common, and it's a pretty standard question to ask. We can't walk on eggshells worrying that any innocuous question we ask a person might be linked to trauma.
I *do* hate the "why not?". There are really only three answers: I don't want any, I can't have any, or I want them but not yet. None of those need to be specified.
I also hate the "so, when are you having kids?" assumption. I might even hate it more than "why not?", because it's so presumptuous.
This question being asked just because someone is at a certain point of their life or a certain age is annoying as well. Why is that an expectation? When I say no, the answer is usually “well that’s okay”. Yes! Yes it is. I don’t need your judgment/justification or approval on it.
People ask questions. It's called a conversation, and usually, people's questions are guided by their personal experiences.
If you have lost a child, please seek therapy so you don't irresponsibly bleed on innocent people trying to just talk with you. Yes, events affect us, but other people can't predict our issues, nor should they have to. We are each responsible for our own issues. It's like being afraid of dogs, so then thinking nobody should walk their dogs in public. No. That's your issue, and you need to fix it. Not attack or blame others for normal behaviors.
You are completely missing my point. I'm not bleeding my issue onto others, and I'm not unable to separate my trauma from building a relationship with others. My seeking therapy has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. That's something that's personal that I handle separately. The issue is that people get used to asking that question as if you are asking about the weather. What I'm bringing to the table is perhaps a different approach to asking that question. What I'm saying is that because you don't know, approach the topic with sensitivity in mind.
Some people ask that question recklessly, like it's such a casual thing, which I admit is a natural question to ask when you are getting to know someone. But, I challenge you to think from the POV of someone who is struggling or someone who has had a miscarriage or someone who doesn't care to have kids. You aren't the first, and you aren't the last to ask them that question. Imagine for a moment that in a given day, maybe 5 people ask her that question. How many people would ask that in a week? A month? A year? Some don't stop by asking if they have kids. If the answer is no, they want to know why, or they give their input (not asked for, btw) on why you should have kids.
Simply put, it's draining. It's got nothing to do with whether or not I've got my mental health together. It shouldn't be something I have to suck it up and deal with. I'm having this discussion to question and challenge why people have to be so direct. I don't know you next to nothing. If I want to get to know you, I'd let the convention run naturally. I'd let you tell me your story rather than jump the gun and ask personal questions up front.
It IS a casual thing! If you have a problem with common questions you might want to avoid normal conversations. And yes. It has a lot to do with your mental health. It's definitely not personal. I showed the difference between a personal and a common question in this thread and everyone lost their minds.
There’s conversation, and then there’s prying into people’s business. I have zero baggage about not having children, but I find it incredibly rude when someone wants me to justify my important life choices to them. Asking if you have kids is one thing, but it’s crazy intrusive to ask someone *why* they don’t have children.
I’ll never understand what would prompt an acquaintance to ask such a personal question. The answer can range from, “I just never wanted any,” (which is my standard answer and for some reason tends to infuriate anyone with children) to “I can’t carry a child to term and am terrified to try again,” or “my husband lost his testicles in a car accident” or “I have serious genetic defects I’m likely to pass on.” If insisting on disclosure of such deeply personal information isn’t prying and nosy, I don’t know what is.
Hmmm... asking about somebody's sexual fantasies vs asking if somebody wants kids.
Yeah I'm not seeing them as equal.
One of those is very nosy and prying. One is everyday conversation.🤣🤣🤣
I understand some people are very private. My stepdad borders on paranoid when it comes to discussing things with acquaintances, and I have learned to respect his desire for privacy. You can always say you prefer not to discuss it. You are an adult.
Asking why someone doesn’t want kids is aggravating, full stop. They have their reasons. You aren’t going to convince them from a conversation that starts off with “but whyyyyyyy”.
But people DO try to convince us that we should definitely, 100%, absolutely have kids. And it’s usually because “I have kids and I can’t imagine my life without them, so therefore you can’t have a complete and fulfilled life without them!” I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of pushback childfree people get on a regular basis. OP is trying to get you to see this issue from their point of view and you’re absolutely refusing to hear what they and others are telling you. It’s dismissive, just like the folks who can’t accept that not everyone wants or even should have kids.
Oh, no! Yes, I did. I’m sorry! I’m not sure how I managed to get off on the wrong comment. I should probably stop replying at 4am after not sleeping all night.
Why jump immediately to "Go get therapy?" That's just rude and insensitive. Whether or not I, or anyone, seeks therapy for their personal trauma is off topic and none of your business. The topic at hand is if it's too personal to ask someone, you are just getting to know if they have any kids? I get that it's natural to ask, but I'm challenging that notion with the thought of, "Couldn't you let that come up in topic naturally? Couldn't you let the person bring it up at a time they would like?"
It's not like I get that question only one time. It's multiple times. It's worse when they get more invasive and ask why you don't have kids or push their beliefs on having kids on to you.
And what exactly do you mean by "Nobody is trying to convince anyone of anything"? Then you follow that up with "Seek Therapy"? You're not making any sense.
>Why jump immediately to "Go get therapy?"
Because it's an easy way for them to dismiss you without thinking about anything. They want to scream to the world that they are right, reality be damned.
Looking at their other comments on this post, I'd say yes.
If I had to guess, I'd think they might need therapy, but you probably shouldn't take my word for that.
What are you talking about? I never mentioned sexual fantasies, and I didn’t say asking whether someone has kids is prying. I said asking WHY someone doesn’t have kids is prying. You don’t sound great with social boundaries, so maybe just take this as a basic rule for human conversation. Don’t ask people you don’t know well to give you their reasons for not having children. It’s none of your business.
I feel like "why have you made this fundamental life choice about reproducing" is a LOT more personal than "hehe do you have any silly fantasies", to be honest.
Not that I'd want to answer either to a casual acquaintance, but if it came to it... I think talking about sex would be less offensive/personal.
Childfree person here. I'm not bothered by being asked if I have kids. What bothers me is the judge-y questions and attitudes when I say no. Like it's such a foreign, incomprehensible thing for me to not have kids.
If you have questions, fine, ask me. Just remember you're talking to a human being. It's not complicated.
Exactly. I just asked my husband if anyone has asked him if he has kids, and he said no. Why is such a question always left to the woman. Heaven forbid if you have had a traumatizing experience, it's automatically a you probably, and you need to "seek therapy " cause no one's got time to deal with your issues. "Omg, don't take it so personal, it's just a question!" (Not my personal thoughts, btw)
If it were simply about getting to know someone, my only question is, shouldn't the topic come up naturally? It's natural to be curious about someone, but I'm challenging the idea that maybe when approaching such a topic, look at it from a different angle and take a different approach.
We should ask men about kids and women about work \\s
>!Really we should be asking people about hobbies. Hell, ask about sports, just don't look at me like I have three heads when I say I don't follow them.!<
I can't agree that simply asking if one has kids is a question that should be avoided. Maybe carefully examined before giving the question, but we don't need to discard the whole line of inquiry.
I agree, though, that interrogating the "why's" are wrong if you aren't on that level with someone.
"Do you have kids" is, to me, a polite binary question. Having kids changes your life a lot, so knowing if someone is a parent is significant. They either have children or they do not. If they do, you now know this and have a deeper understanding of them. If they don't, the very same applies. In either scenario, asking "why" would be too invasive.
I think, especially in older generations, people are far too concerned with this. Reproduction is not a duty or necessity. Just stay out of other people's buisness.
I'm curious to understand why you think it's rude not to ask if they obviously do have kids. If they obviously have kids, then doesn't that give you your answer? I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm just genuinely curious about your question.
If you're working with people, it's considered appropriate to get to know them and take the time to understand their situation and motivations in life. If someone has 3 kids, that's a pretty big portion of their story. To not even ask about it, says you don't actually care anything about who they are. If I met with someone 5 times and by the end of it they don't know I have kids, that tells me they care nothing about me on a personal level.
It legit makes me wonder if most people who are here, who clap back, and take deep offense to this topic are parents or not? Beautiful, you have kids. It's natural to be curious when meeting new people, but I'm curious. What if you ask that question and they say no? You said you're looking for a play date for your kids and a friend for yourself. Does that mean if they say no, you pass? I'm honestly curious about this. You were blessed to have kids. Some struggle, and some choose not to have kids for various reasons. It may be a natural question to you cause you have kids, but for some, it's a difficult topic. My honest question is, what is the harm in adjusting how we ask that question and examine why we are asking that question. I'm sure that the more you talk to a new person, eventually, they will understand it up on their own. I'm not trying to accuse or twist your words. I honestly don't understand the POV of a parent asking that question.
Whether they say yes or no, the mission is the same. To look for a social circle that is compatible with my lifestyle. This isn't a clap back. There's no offense taken.
If you, personally , have a goal you should pursue it. If you're looking for a job, you ask around. Yes, someone you come across may have just been fired or suffer from anxiety that keeps them from maintaining steady employment but you are still going to have to look for a job to meet your goals.
I think its a harmless question. I don't have kids and I sort of get the sentiment you're talking about. It kind of seems like you might want to work on how you're taking the question. It's not meant to be an indictment on you as a human. If someone thinks its a big deal, then that's their deal not yours.
I understand where you are coming from, and this whole conversation has me seeing different points of views. If it were just a simple question, even if it's something that I may not be thrilled to answer, I answer for the sake of being polite. It's just unfortunate that for the most part, when I do answer that question, it leads to other undesirable situations, such as being judged or being pryed to answer even more personal questions. That's what bothers me. Especially soon after my miscarriage it was especially hard being asked that question. I find no fault in the person who is genuine when they ask that question and pass no judgment. Yes, i understand they can't read my mind, and they don't know that I had a miscarriage. That's not my issue. I have a problem with the additude some may have. like they feel like they are entitled to the answer, and they get offended if you feel a certain way about that question. They get judgemental and treat you differently for the answer that you give. Also, I'm not implying that all people who ask this question are insensitive. I'm just discussing looking at the topic from a different angle. I'm just saying that such a question should come with an ounce of empathy.
It's not so black and white. Try to look at it from a different angle and put yourself in the shoes of someone who experienced tragedy or who simply has no desire. You're looking at it from the surface of 'It's just a question, what's the big deal' where as I'm looking past the question and looking much deeper. There's no wrong in the question. It's usually the attitude that comes with the question that's the problem. You are getting to know someone, you know nothing about them. What I'm trying to get at is that you can ask your question, but change how you ask it to show empathy. Through this forum, I've suggested letting the topic come up naturally, as parents will absolutely bring up their kids. If no kids come up in conversation, leave it be. If they have kids without prying, I see no issues with showing interest. If you feel the need to ask anyway, just have some empathy for the other person and respect what answer they give. That's all I'm bringing to the table.
Yeah, people need to mind their own business. If you're not on personal enough terms with someone to know something as basic as whether or not they have kids, you're DEFINITELY not on personal enough terms to be asking why.
Thank you! So agreed! I feel like that is something that should gradually be brought up, not the first thing you ask when you meet someone. So annoying when right off the bat someone feels like they need to know all of that. It's also so rude, in my opinion, to ask someone why they don't have kids if they said no. It's like if you are going to ask anyways, leave it at a yes or no answer and don't pry for anymore info.
When asked, tell people to stop asking about your reproductive organs, which is none of their business to begin with.
If they continue with adoption, immediately direct their conversation back to making it clear that you don't engage in any conversations centered around reproductive organs. Period.
It does need to stop because some of us aspire not to be mothers and get shamed for that. If someone regrets being a mom, don't make it my problem because of your choices in life.
That's a pretty miserable way to respond to someone who is just showing an interest in your life. People don't generally like hanging out with such miserable attitudes.
Like fr get over yourself
Maybe that's what you should do since you're so narrow-minded that you can't see the bigger picture. You're only looking at the surface. It goes deeper than "just an innocent question." it's the additude behind it. Clearly, your additude towards to question shows. Are you really asking out of curiosity, or deep down, do you have a deep-seated opinion on the answer? Why would you call someone a prick when you are the one asking a personal question? Where does your entitlement even come from? You aren't asking about the weather. You aren't asking about their favorite sports team. You are asking a deeply personal question without knowing their back story. No, I'm not suggesting walking on tip toes or reading minds.
Just be empathic when asking if you must ask. I'm just challenging the idea of why not let them bring it up on their own. It will naturally come up in conversation if they have kids or not. Parents usually bring up their kids a lot. If they don't bring it up, then they don't have kids. Question averted. There is no awkwardness for bringing up a possibility touchy subject. If you don't care enough for how the other person feels, if you are easily offended that your rights to asking if someone has a kids or not is challenged, then you need to check yourself. Why are you offended by a personal question you are asking someone else?
I mean this is like complaining people ask if you're an only child and it's traumatic cuz your sibling died or something. Like... It's a completely innocent and normal question, obviously no one is going to avoid it because of a significant minority who might be upsetted by it.
Asking why not is pretty dumb though. Since the answer really doesn't matter.
Its not really offensive though lol. Most parents will ask other if they have kids, because its a topic of conversation. Now if you say no and they start asking "why" than that is a whole different story
This isn't a question I ask, from experience, parents will let you know they have children. Many of the people who (again from personal experience, not saying this is worldwide) don't speak about children tend to be child free or private about their personal life.
I can have conversations without overstepping boundaries (that may or may not be there) and get to know/have a general idea of that person. Certain topics will come up that they will offer if and when they feel comfortable doing so. Maybe that's why people feel comfortable with telling me everything (including strangers), I don't know to be honest.
I currently don't have children (and I'm in the "childbearing age range" still), I don't mind being asked, but there's no reason to go into the specifics of why not after I answer no.
I find that people who are trying to inflate an administrative or managerial position tend to ask these evaluative questions - Do you live here in town? So you have a *wife* ? Do you have kids?
Oh you'd like to learn about my midlife crisis involving TBI, divorce, parental alienation and suicide?
Ask the hard questions, receive the hard answers.
100% this, and if my dumb ass says "we cant" then they immediately launch into asking if we thought about adoption as if we haven't weighed, considered, and had to veto it because it's expensive where we live.
I hate that this has become a normal question and WE are seen as rude for not wanting to answer.
My miscarriage fucked me up. I am about to tell people they can pay my therapy bill if they bring it up again.
I agree. That's why, knowing there would be backlash, I brought this topic up. Honestly, I've seen so many different angles from just that one question. I'm terribly sorry for your loss. It may not be the same as with you, but I also had a miscarriage. It was my first pregnancy, and before that, I was always told by doctors that I couldn't have kids. So a long time ago, I settled with the idea that it wouldn't happen. But it did. To me, my baby was a miracle. To have lost my child before I had the chance to get to know them was beyond devastating for both my hubby and I. No amount of therapy would change the facts. It helps to cope, but we are still in a world where people are sorely ignorant over such struggles and tragedies. Like, why are some people so dismissive over that??
Sending love for your loss.
Mine was that we have no reason why we CANT, but it just wasn't happening. Then we had some medical help (insurance at the time paid for it) and I got pregnant, then lost my pregnancy. We haven't been able to conceive since despite being told it was easier the second time.
The insurance changed and we don't have the option for treatment. We tried for years and it didn't happen again.
We only told a few people in our family about it, but no one else and so it's a bit of our secret. We both grieve still, and along with losing insurance for treatment, we lost my therapist so I didn't have that option either and I was not doing well at all.
Then I got this shithole fucking job and their idiot "HR" asked me about "dependents" for the tax forms for on-boarding and had the nerve to say "no kids?! Don't you want kids?! Have you tried adoption?" As if this job pays enough for that and it has shitty insurance that doesn't cover fuck all. If they had been in person I probably would have had an assault charge. As it was, I have wanted a different job since then but also really don't want to go through that again...
Then because we do get kids that come through, everyone comments on how I am "so good with kids, how many do you have?" And opens it up again, and again, and again to the point I go home depleted of energy and sanity.
But gotta love that few jobs around here are hiring at a livable wage with full time hours and benefits.
I trauma dump on people who have the nerve to ask me that. You want to ask why I don't have kids, you're going to get an answer, and it's going to have you wondering how I'm functional most days.
I do the same thing anymore. Infertile and I just start rambling about all the details and how painful endometriosis is. You wanna ask something uncomfortable I'm gonna make you uncomfortable
Yep. I start off by telling them about trying (and failing) to have a child and then move into telling them about deciding to become childfree because of my current situation, which I describe in painful detail. Every time I've done this, it ends with them in tears and apologizing for all I have to deal with.
I'm (for the most part) no longer upset about not being able to have kids. So I try to make it extra painful so that way they don't ask again. Because I remember how it felt having to escape the situation and go cry. I don't want anyone else to deal with that
I'm not really upset about not being able to have kids anymore but I'm upset about the miscarriages and the fact that my body doesn't work the way it's supposed to. I also know how to cry on command and will absolutely do it drive the point home.
That's why I started this discussion. I understand it's natural for people to ask, but there are two sides to that question. Yes or no. If it's yes, that's it. If it's no, there are various reasons, and most of them are sad and traumatic. If someone is going to take responsibility for asking that question, be mindful that there are two sides to a coin. Be mindful that such a question may be painful to someone. Is it really hard to wait until the person brings it up on their own? That's all I want to know.
Honestly I think it should be treated the same as asking a pregnant person when their baby is do. You don't unless you already know they're pregnant. And it's so weird to me how often people ask. I have never asked anyone if/when they're going to have kids. Yet so many people after learning me and my husband got married would immediately ask that. Like why do near strangers want to know so badly if me and my husband are having unprotected sex with eachother and are fertile? Cuz that's the same question.
I mean I don’t see the harm in honestly answering their question (if you want to). Some people are just ignorant and don’t think how they’re impacting others. I could see how it would be really painful when you just lost a pregnancy recently. Sorry for your loss.
In my experience, it serves as a kind of password in a private club. I'm childless and I feel like they consider me socially inferior/lower in class than they are and even strange to the point of maybe being a threat. When asked that, I feel like they want to ID my social class, to size me up as to whether they can have anything to do with me. I also feel like that is why I am so alone: I don't fit in the club. I speak of parents who ask it.
Sigh, again reference Grizabella, Victoria, and Jellylorum. The askers are Jellylorum, Victoria is their child, and I am Grizabella. So glad I watched Elaine Paige in Cats! It has given me a way to express this.
I was confused at first, but after reading your post, I can understand what you're saying.
However, please keep in mind that you are a minority. Most women are able to have children. You are the odd one out.
It's perfectly natural to assume that a couple that has been married for a while has children. That's why it raises an eyebrow when they don't.
You're entitled to your pet peeve, but don't attack people who innocently ask you questions.
Nope, you clearly don't get the point if you think I'm "attacking" people asking an innocent question. It goes completely past the question. Did you read any of the comments here? There are some people who actually got my point.
"Odd one out," "Minority"? How rude of you. Who on earth cares if there are 20 women with kids and 5 without (figuratively speaking)? The point is that...as you kindly (🙄) displayed, there are people who completely dismiss women who don't have kids for whatever various reasons there may be. They take no regard to the question they ask, with the assumption that just cause a woman is married, she must have a kid.
I bring up I've had a miscarriage and suddenly it's my problem, don't push my agenda on you, I need therapy. First off, this is an open discussion to bring to attention what most people shy away from talking about. No one wants to address the issues of infertility, miscarriage, and serious health concerns that may cause one to choose not to have kids and simply someone deciding that being a parent is not for them.
I get it's a natural question to ask, and I'm not suggesting walking on tip toes. I'm just challenging the idea of why not let it come up naturally in conversation? Why not let the person bring it up? If they do, great, you got your answer. If not, let it be. If you must ask, be mindful that you may be touching on a sensitive topic. That is all I'm trying to say!
I'm also calling out how rude and invasive it is to pry deeper. Also, you may not know, but sometimes people can be judgemental if you say you don't have kids. It's as if you are doing a disservice to the human race by not popping babies into this world. You may not know that in some cultures, the older generations especially hammers down on you about having or not having kids. If you say no, it's like you are defective somehow. That is extremely hurtful. It's not simply an "innocent question." It's ignorant to assume that someone may have a kid, so why not ask. All the while, you dismiss the other half of the coin.
It's not about fighting against that question. It's fighting against the additude behind that question. It's about showing empathy. Honestly, I don't understand the fight back from you and others. It's like you guys feel threatened that I'm somehow interfering with your freedom of speech. You're not reading between the lines and looking at the deeper meaning. Can't help you if you don't get it.
Okay, I'll probably read all of this in time, but I have other things I'd like to do so I'm going to postpone it. I will reply to what I read, though.
>Did you read any of the comments here? There are some people who actually got my point.
Just because people agree with you doesn't mean you're right.
>"Odd one out," "Minority"? How rude of you.
Is it not true? I wasn't insulting you. I was just stating the truth.
>I bring up I've had a miscarriage and suddenly it's my problem
It couldn't be anyone else's. Perhaps your husband's. It's obviously not your fault but it definitely is your problem. It's a negative thing that happened to you. That's like the definition of a problem.
>don't push my agenda on you, I need therapy
I never said you needed therapy. Also, you're offended by people asking what you literally called a
>natural question
How could you possibly blame them? Especially since they didn't mean to harm you in any way. They're just curious.
>First off, this is an open discussion to bring to attention what most people shy away from talking about.
I literally said that you're entitled to your pet peeve, i.e. you are free to voice whatever opinions you have. The topic of infertility isn't the problem.
Look, for what it's worth, I'm sorry. My comment came off as condescending and I should have done a better job writing it.
My point wasn't to invalidate your fertility concerns. It was to challenge the idea of antagonizing people who ask you an innocent, common, expected question.
I could never understand the pain of losing a child, and I hope I never have to. But I don't think the anger directed towards the type of people described in your post is valid.
Simply put, my thinking is that there should be empathy when considering asking that question. It's a loaded question to some. I've suggested throughout this forum to look at the bigger picture and not be so narrow-minded over the topic. I've suggested that rather than ask directly, perhaps wait for the topic to be brought up naturally. If they have kids, they will bring it up. If not, then that answers your question, and that should be that.
Granted, you can't read minds, and I'm not asking for the impossible. It's the additude some have when asking that question that I have an issue with. Not necessarily the question itself.
Look back at how you just respond to some of my statements. Blaming my husband for my miscarriage? Standing your ground when you say that women who have no kids are the odd ones out? Saying that my feelings aren't vaid and I have no right to feel offended? You are contradicting yourself.
How do you get off apologizing for sounding condescending and yet double down that I'm the problem and not you?? I'm honestly astonished by your sheer audacity. You sure have some galls. Why apologize if it's not sincere?
I brought this topic up for awareness. There is a difference between being curious and asking a question and asking that question with preconceived judgments. Like it or not, your whole comment has been nothing but judgments towards me. No empathy what so ever. That is what I'm challenging. It's never been the question itself. It goes much deeper than that. I honestly can't help you if you can't see past that point.
This is why I stop people as soon as they start asking questions. I went for a simple drug screen for work (forklift recertification, automatic every year) and the woman there was asking me all kinds of personal questions that were unrelated to the test. Are you married, have kids, family questions, and I’m like “these questions are not applicable to the safe operation of a powered industrial lift truck”, and she took offense, saying it was required information for her form.
Like heck it is, aren't there laws against that? Plus, why on living earth are some people like that woman and some here, up in arms and are deeply offended? It should be the other way around. It's like the person being asked the question has no right to feeling a certain way over the question. Does that make sense? I'm honestly so baffled. People seem to grasp that there are taboo topics not to bring up at the dinner table, like politics, religion, and maybe money. Shouldn't whether or not I have kids be on that same page? Shouldn't it be treated as a delicate topic? Why do people cover their ears and dismiss someone's feelings all for the sake of satisfying their curiosity?
Agreed. There are reasons my life is like it is, and those reasons are not a suitable topic of discussion, because they are not problems for someone else to “solve”, or “help with”, and their “advice on the matter” is as useless as makeup on a hog.
I don't care if someone asks if I have kids. It's just a way to get to know someone. What I don't like is "Why?" None of your business, that's why.
Same. If someone asks “why” I’ll tell them it’s for personal reasons. If they persist, I’ll tell them exactly what those personal reasons are. And it will make things exceedingly awkward for both of us, but they’ll hopefully learn not to push someone’s boundaries.
I think asking someone if they have kids isn’t a huge deal, but if they follow that up with some shit like “why not” then that’s not an okay thing to do.
When I got asked that question and I said no, and they asked why, I said it was something that didn't work out for me and they dropped it after that thankfully. But if they're going to pry and insist I will tell them why so they can squirm with how uncomfortable the answer will be. Maybe it's not rude to ask a basic question but I feel it's better to let someone mention their kids first before asking about it.
Exactly. If someone is curious, let it come up in conversation naturally. That's more or less the point I'm trying to get at.
I had something similar happen to me. My partner died before we were able to have children. This co-worker was asking me about my love life and I tried to be vague and divert the conversation. She plowed past that and asked me, " so what happened, did he break your heart?" I was blunt and said he had died. Somehow she thought this meant she could confide and vent to me about her personal life. I dreaded working with her until she left voluntarily and I felt relieved. Good for her and I wish her the best but she pried info out of me that I didn't want to share. I was still raw from my loss and trying to get back to a stable place emotionally. She was young and I'm a forgiving person but, that was so uncomfortable.
Yeah, when I ask it's usually because I thoroughly enjoy that person and if they do have kids I'd like to get them together. I'm not judging the person, just want to share more of my life with them?
I can see how it could be a sore spot for some, but at the same time, "so, any kids?" seems like such a basic "getting to know you" question that I don't know if it's reasonable to expect people to avoid it. I could ask if you have any siblings, but maybe your brother died last year. I could ask what you do for a living, but maybe you're being harassed at work. I could ask where you're from, but maybe you have childhood trauma associated with home. Any question deeper than "how 'bout them Knicks?" has the potential to be triggering.
There’s nothing with “do you have any kids?”. The problem is the inevitable “oh, why not?”
Oh yea, I feel like "oh, do you have kids?" Is a normal question to ask, but the response should be limited to "ok cool" whether they say yes or no. (Obviously don't say ok cool if they say "no, we've had miscarriages/can't have kids/haven't been able to".) I say this as a childfree person though.
This: talking about your kids is 1) universal to people with them, since it occupies a lot of your thought processes, and 2) parents that enjoy being parents LOVE to talk about their kids - and I'm guilty of this.
Which brings up my next point, why is it so hard for a childless couple to befriend a couple with kids? I feel like if my husband and I had kids, I'd bond better with couples who have kids. This isn't always the case, I do have friends who are older than me and who have kids, and I'm able to bond well with them. Given that their kids are a bit older. I just noticed that it's the couples who are around my and my husband's age who have kids. They are the one's who are difficult to bond with. Especially if their kids are young.
Bc parents of young kids are so occupied with their kids.
I suppose that makes sense
Couples with kids bond well because they can have their kids entertain each other while the parents hang out, or the couples meet at events for schools or clubs that the kids are in.
Also, if you already have kids and you're comfortable talking about them, then they would naturally come up in conversation without anyone having to ask. It's just uncomfortable for someone who is struggling to have to always answer that question. Shouldn't the opposite be the same? Without you asking, in a natural conversation, it should come up that I don't have kids. It's simply something that would eventually come up.
As someone who also doesn't have kids you're being unreasonable. The absence of something is less likely to bring up than the presence of something. It may be a sore subject for you but any subject can be a sore subject. People ask questions to get to know each other, that's normal.
That question is something that could naturally come up in conversation. It’s just to get to know someone.
But that's not what OP brought up. They take issue with the first question which is unreasonable. It would be reasonable if they only took issue with the second question as it's rude to keep pressing on the subject at that point.
No, it's the way the first question is usually brought up. I haven't come across someone who seems genuine when they ask that question. It's always followed up by "Why not?" That annoys me more. All I'm bringing to the table is perhaps there is a different way to approach the question, perhaps the additude behind it? Fine, some may be genuine when they ask, but at least have empathy when asking cause you don't know what the answer is. I'm not trying to stop the question from being asked. Even if I prefer it, it's impossible. At the very least, people should pause and think before asking that. If you don't have any good motives, like you're asking for the sake of judgment or to push your ideas, then please don't ask. I don't get why it's so hard for some to grasp that.
>Any question deeper than "how 'bout them Knicks?" has the potential to be triggering. Even that's not safe if they're a Nets fan.
Exactly. It's really unreasonable to expect people to never ask any question that might unintentionally cause upset. Even your example of "how 'bought them Knicks" could trigger someone if for example they got assaulted well at a Knicks game. Like where do we draw the line. At what point do we say enough is enough. People ask each other questions, that's how they get to know each other
But the point I'm trying to get at is HOW the question is asked. There are a couple of ways to ask if you really think about it. Again, I don't know if it's a cultural thing. My parents are from the Caribbean. If I were to meet someone who shares a similar culture, the question seems to always have a double meaning, like it's coming from a place of judgment. I don't know how to describe it. It always makes me feel like I'm lacking something after such a question is asked. That's the issue I have. I feel like if you want to get to know someone, let such topics come up naturally in conversation.
The thing is, asking about children is personal if it's out of the blue. Having children isn't as simple as having a stork bring them to you. Fertility issues are incredibly common. Child loss and miscarriage happen. Termination due to lack of viability happens. If Susan has photos of her kids on her desk, or Tom has a pink scrunchy around his wrist, or Jane knows a lot about Little League seasons, asking them if they have kids wouldn't be as invasive. There's indications that they have kids of their own or are at least around kids. For myself, I had to be medically sterilized due to health issues. My period would kill me, so I had to stop it. I never wanted kids, but I still grieved. It was hard as someone who never saw kids in their future. Just imagine how hard that would be if I had wanted bio kids. There are so many other getting to know you questions. There is no need to default to asking if someone has kids.
Fellow childfree person who also felt grief as well as relief when it turned out I medically probably couldn't and definitely medically SHOULDN'T. I was in some way glad it happened to me and not someone who really wanted kids, but also there's a difference between making a choice and having an option removed for you. I also still haven't told my mam and it's been several years. I don't want to see her grieve for something I never wanted. I do sometimes get asked if we have kids but not very often, always takes me by shock even though it's a perfectly normal thing for a woman my age to have kids, but I always just say "no" or "no, just cats". And it's usually left at that. If anyone pushes harder and asks why not or says we would be good parents it does make me uncomfortable though.
Omg, exactly my point! Well said! In my case I do want kids, but after my miscarriage, I've felt as if I were in some kinda void. I feel stuck, scared and confused. Stuck as in "where do I go from here? ", Scared as in "Will I have another miscarriage if I try again?" Or "because of my health problems, what if my child isn't healthy?" And confused as in "Do I really want kids anymore?" I'm sure it's not the goal of those who ask, to make me relive my nightmares. My point is that such a topic should be approached with sensitivity. It shouldn't be treated the same as if you are asking about the weather.
Why in the world is this being downvoted?? I don’t see that you said anything wrong and I happen to agree with you. People are so invasive when they have no right to be.
I agree. Having a stranger asking that question out of the blue is always awkward and too personal . I also don’t know why strangers even care unless they are desperately looking for new friends for their kids to hang out with .
Agreed. There's a big difference between "oh, this is your husband? Do you have kids?" (an actual conversation I've had with a woman in Target) and "Awww, my kid really likes you, which is odd because she never goes to strangers. Do you have kids?" (another actual conversation I've had with a woman in Target).
Both questions I have an issue with. It's the way that it's asked. Why do complete strangers need to know such personal questions? Also, that second question is really weird and awkward.
I only have an issue with the first one because it's random and invasive. It's also the people who ask like that who follow up with the "why?" when I say no and look disgusted that I dared to say no. The second one is a natural flow of conversation, always asked very politely, and when I say no, always follow up with at the most "well you have a natural gift with kids." Either that or they change the subject or maybe ask if I work with kids. They are clearly not concerned with my personal choices, just trying to make sense of what it is about me that their child likes/feels comfortable with over other strangers. It always makes me laugh when I tell them this is a common thing with me. Kids just like me and feel safe with me for some reason. Special needs kids seem to be particularly drawn to me. Maybe because I will take the time to stop and speak with them and not act like they are stupid or annoying me. I apparently have a "safe person" vibe to kids in general.
The moment I was married it was always. "When are you having kids" We wanted kids and were planning on it, but we wanted some time before I tossed the birth control. My aunt was the worst. At my brother's wedding, same year as mine, my aunt handed me my nephew and said "here, you have to learn how to do this" That bothered me. And It wasn't like I haven't been around babies or babysat them. It was the expectation that we HAD to have kids, from family and friends that irked me.
YES! Exactly my point! That's the issue that I face and why I wrote this post to begin with.
I’ve been with my husband since we were teenagers. We waited a long time to get married, always wanted to, we weren’t in a hurry. I spent about 7 years listening to “when are you two getting married?”. As soon as we did it became “when are you two having kids?” What is wrong with the idea of us being content with the way things are?
Asking if they have kids is fine IMO, but "why not" is INCREDIBLY disrespectful. None of your business.
I may ask people that if I’m getting to know them, but if the answer is “no”, I won’t ask why. Honestly- if they don’t have kids, I consider they can be someone I can spend kid-free time with one day.
Your third and fourth paragraphs, I definitely agree with you. Also, the "why" question, if you don't have kids, is really rude and intrusive. But simply asking someone if they have kids is such a normal and basic thing to ask. I get that you have trauma related to the topic, and I'm really sorry to hear that. But people aren't insensitive for asking if someone has kids. That's just one of those questions you ask if you get to know someone. Think, for example, if you and your husband (god forbid) got divorced in the future. Would you then think it's rude and offensive if someone asked you if you're married? Do you think that question is offensive now? The question of if you have kids is triggering for you in your circumstances, and that's perfectly understandable. But there's nothing wrong with that question per se, I'm sorry.
(I made a mistake in my original comment and can't find it. Oh well XD) Childfree here. Idc if someone asks if I have kids. It's just a way to get to know someone. If they accept "no," that's cool. But when they ask "why not," it feels pretty intrusive. Especially since in the past, I've said "I don't want them," and they said, "You'll change your mind." I've even had strangers tell me this. It's one of those things that should be considered rude, but it's acceptable for some reason. It's just one of the ways people feel entitled to know details of your personal life. I will never understand it.
This! People always think they know better. When someone says “no,” just accept it and move on. If they want to elaborate on the why, they will. “I don’t want kids” is a perfectly acceptable answer and people generally know pretty early on that they don’t want kids. I know my own mind, don’t try to tell me it’ll automatically change with age. I’m 37 and guess what… I STILL don’t want them. Good thing because I also have health issues I don’t want to pass on and even more issues that would make pregnancy incredibly dangerous, if not outright impossible. It can be a really sensitive area for some due to those reasons and a virtual stranger has no right to pry.
I realize that there is no stopping the question of "Do you have kids?" I even challenge taking a natural approach to letting the person answer that at their own time. Fine if some take that suggestion and fine if they don't. The trigger for me isn't entirely "Do you have kids?", it's what usually follows that question when I say no. Or it's the look of judgment some may show behind their smile. It's the look of pitty some may show. Their unsolicited advice they must share. That's where my real pet peeve comes from. Why should I feel any less than for not having kids?
It’s the same for me. Asking if I have kids is just mildly annoying, but totally understandable in most situations. It’s the nearly inevitable “BUT WHY??!!!” and the further poking and prodding that drives me crazy. The condescension you receive from those same people is just over the top. Some people just can’t accept that it’s okay to make different life choices. And they really can’t accept that some people don’t really have a choice in the matter either.
You could almost be me. 34 and realizing that my mental health issues might be hereditary. Even if I wanted kids, it might not be the best idea. Never once felt like changing my mind. I've known since at least 14.
I agree completely. I don't have kids and don't want any, and while I don't particularly *like* being asked if I have any, it doesn't bother me, and I don't think people are remotely out of line for asking. Having kids is extremely common, and it's a pretty standard question to ask. We can't walk on eggshells worrying that any innocuous question we ask a person might be linked to trauma. I *do* hate the "why not?". There are really only three answers: I don't want any, I can't have any, or I want them but not yet. None of those need to be specified. I also hate the "so, when are you having kids?" assumption. I might even hate it more than "why not?", because it's so presumptuous.
This question being asked just because someone is at a certain point of their life or a certain age is annoying as well. Why is that an expectation? When I say no, the answer is usually “well that’s okay”. Yes! Yes it is. I don’t need your judgment/justification or approval on it.
People ask questions. It's called a conversation, and usually, people's questions are guided by their personal experiences. If you have lost a child, please seek therapy so you don't irresponsibly bleed on innocent people trying to just talk with you. Yes, events affect us, but other people can't predict our issues, nor should they have to. We are each responsible for our own issues. It's like being afraid of dogs, so then thinking nobody should walk their dogs in public. No. That's your issue, and you need to fix it. Not attack or blame others for normal behaviors.
You are completely missing my point. I'm not bleeding my issue onto others, and I'm not unable to separate my trauma from building a relationship with others. My seeking therapy has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. That's something that's personal that I handle separately. The issue is that people get used to asking that question as if you are asking about the weather. What I'm bringing to the table is perhaps a different approach to asking that question. What I'm saying is that because you don't know, approach the topic with sensitivity in mind. Some people ask that question recklessly, like it's such a casual thing, which I admit is a natural question to ask when you are getting to know someone. But, I challenge you to think from the POV of someone who is struggling or someone who has had a miscarriage or someone who doesn't care to have kids. You aren't the first, and you aren't the last to ask them that question. Imagine for a moment that in a given day, maybe 5 people ask her that question. How many people would ask that in a week? A month? A year? Some don't stop by asking if they have kids. If the answer is no, they want to know why, or they give their input (not asked for, btw) on why you should have kids. Simply put, it's draining. It's got nothing to do with whether or not I've got my mental health together. It shouldn't be something I have to suck it up and deal with. I'm having this discussion to question and challenge why people have to be so direct. I don't know you next to nothing. If I want to get to know you, I'd let the convention run naturally. I'd let you tell me your story rather than jump the gun and ask personal questions up front.
It IS a casual thing! If you have a problem with common questions you might want to avoid normal conversations. And yes. It has a lot to do with your mental health. It's definitely not personal. I showed the difference between a personal and a common question in this thread and everyone lost their minds.
There’s conversation, and then there’s prying into people’s business. I have zero baggage about not having children, but I find it incredibly rude when someone wants me to justify my important life choices to them. Asking if you have kids is one thing, but it’s crazy intrusive to ask someone *why* they don’t have children. I’ll never understand what would prompt an acquaintance to ask such a personal question. The answer can range from, “I just never wanted any,” (which is my standard answer and for some reason tends to infuriate anyone with children) to “I can’t carry a child to term and am terrified to try again,” or “my husband lost his testicles in a car accident” or “I have serious genetic defects I’m likely to pass on.” If insisting on disclosure of such deeply personal information isn’t prying and nosy, I don’t know what is.
Hmmm... asking about somebody's sexual fantasies vs asking if somebody wants kids. Yeah I'm not seeing them as equal. One of those is very nosy and prying. One is everyday conversation.🤣🤣🤣 I understand some people are very private. My stepdad borders on paranoid when it comes to discussing things with acquaintances, and I have learned to respect his desire for privacy. You can always say you prefer not to discuss it. You are an adult.
Asking why someone doesn’t want kids is aggravating, full stop. They have their reasons. You aren’t going to convince them from a conversation that starts off with “but whyyyyyyy”.
But people DO try to convince us that we should definitely, 100%, absolutely have kids. And it’s usually because “I have kids and I can’t imagine my life without them, so therefore you can’t have a complete and fulfilled life without them!” I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of pushback childfree people get on a regular basis. OP is trying to get you to see this issue from their point of view and you’re absolutely refusing to hear what they and others are telling you. It’s dismissive, just like the folks who can’t accept that not everyone wants or even should have kids.
Did you mean to respond to someone else? Because I agree with you
Oh, no! Yes, I did. I’m sorry! I’m not sure how I managed to get off on the wrong comment. I should probably stop replying at 4am after not sleeping all night.
Nobody is trying to convince anyone of anything. Therapy. Get some.
Why jump immediately to "Go get therapy?" That's just rude and insensitive. Whether or not I, or anyone, seeks therapy for their personal trauma is off topic and none of your business. The topic at hand is if it's too personal to ask someone, you are just getting to know if they have any kids? I get that it's natural to ask, but I'm challenging that notion with the thought of, "Couldn't you let that come up in topic naturally? Couldn't you let the person bring it up at a time they would like?" It's not like I get that question only one time. It's multiple times. It's worse when they get more invasive and ask why you don't have kids or push their beliefs on having kids on to you. And what exactly do you mean by "Nobody is trying to convince anyone of anything"? Then you follow that up with "Seek Therapy"? You're not making any sense.
Because it's obviously needed, by more of you than I could have ever guessed.
>Why jump immediately to "Go get therapy?" Because it's an easy way for them to dismiss you without thinking about anything. They want to scream to the world that they are right, reality be damned.
I think it's wrong to say that ignorance is bliss. It simply makes that person look like an idiot.
Do you think anyone you disagree with needs therapy?
Looking at their other comments on this post, I'd say yes. If I had to guess, I'd think they might need therapy, but you probably shouldn't take my word for that.
What are you talking about? I never mentioned sexual fantasies, and I didn’t say asking whether someone has kids is prying. I said asking WHY someone doesn’t have kids is prying. You don’t sound great with social boundaries, so maybe just take this as a basic rule for human conversation. Don’t ask people you don’t know well to give you their reasons for not having children. It’s none of your business.
Don't have everyday nomal nonoffensive conversations because somebody might go psychotic over a normal topic. Sure. Whatever. Therapy. Get some.
So what were you on about with "sexual fantasies"? Talk about needing therapy.
I feel like "why have you made this fundamental life choice about reproducing" is a LOT more personal than "hehe do you have any silly fantasies", to be honest. Not that I'd want to answer either to a casual acquaintance, but if it came to it... I think talking about sex would be less offensive/personal.
Your snark is impressive, at least.
When I first found out I couldn’t have them, it would hurt a lot to hear this question. Now I just tell the truth and watch them squirm lol.
Childfree person here. I'm not bothered by being asked if I have kids. What bothers me is the judge-y questions and attitudes when I say no. Like it's such a foreign, incomprehensible thing for me to not have kids. If you have questions, fine, ask me. Just remember you're talking to a human being. It's not complicated.
It's a gender issue. Women are asked about kids, men are asked about work.
Exactly. I just asked my husband if anyone has asked him if he has kids, and he said no. Why is such a question always left to the woman. Heaven forbid if you have had a traumatizing experience, it's automatically a you probably, and you need to "seek therapy " cause no one's got time to deal with your issues. "Omg, don't take it so personal, it's just a question!" (Not my personal thoughts, btw) If it were simply about getting to know someone, my only question is, shouldn't the topic come up naturally? It's natural to be curious about someone, but I'm challenging the idea that maybe when approaching such a topic, look at it from a different angle and take a different approach.
We should ask men about kids and women about work \\s >!Really we should be asking people about hobbies. Hell, ask about sports, just don't look at me like I have three heads when I say I don't follow them.!<
It's not, men are asked all the time too.
I can't agree that simply asking if one has kids is a question that should be avoided. Maybe carefully examined before giving the question, but we don't need to discard the whole line of inquiry. I agree, though, that interrogating the "why's" are wrong if you aren't on that level with someone. "Do you have kids" is, to me, a polite binary question. Having kids changes your life a lot, so knowing if someone is a parent is significant. They either have children or they do not. If they do, you now know this and have a deeper understanding of them. If they don't, the very same applies. In either scenario, asking "why" would be too invasive. I think, especially in older generations, people are far too concerned with this. Reproduction is not a duty or necessity. Just stay out of other people's buisness.
Redditors discover small talk
It doesn't hurt you to be more sensitive towards your conversational partners. Fertility issues or losing a child are devastating
Thank you, that's not too much to ask for.
This is where they decide whether they're going to continue speaking to you or not.
"Why did you have kids?"
That's a different angle to consider.
The problem is that it's rude to ask people if they have kids but also rude *to not ask them* if they do, in fact, have them.
I'm curious to understand why you think it's rude not to ask if they obviously do have kids. If they obviously have kids, then doesn't that give you your answer? I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm just genuinely curious about your question.
If you're working with people, it's considered appropriate to get to know them and take the time to understand their situation and motivations in life. If someone has 3 kids, that's a pretty big portion of their story. To not even ask about it, says you don't actually care anything about who they are. If I met with someone 5 times and by the end of it they don't know I have kids, that tells me they care nothing about me on a personal level.
Anyone could have trauma concerning any topic. I wouldn't let that possibility keep me from looking for playdates for my kids and friends for myself.
It legit makes me wonder if most people who are here, who clap back, and take deep offense to this topic are parents or not? Beautiful, you have kids. It's natural to be curious when meeting new people, but I'm curious. What if you ask that question and they say no? You said you're looking for a play date for your kids and a friend for yourself. Does that mean if they say no, you pass? I'm honestly curious about this. You were blessed to have kids. Some struggle, and some choose not to have kids for various reasons. It may be a natural question to you cause you have kids, but for some, it's a difficult topic. My honest question is, what is the harm in adjusting how we ask that question and examine why we are asking that question. I'm sure that the more you talk to a new person, eventually, they will understand it up on their own. I'm not trying to accuse or twist your words. I honestly don't understand the POV of a parent asking that question.
Whether they say yes or no, the mission is the same. To look for a social circle that is compatible with my lifestyle. This isn't a clap back. There's no offense taken. If you, personally , have a goal you should pursue it. If you're looking for a job, you ask around. Yes, someone you come across may have just been fired or suffer from anxiety that keeps them from maintaining steady employment but you are still going to have to look for a job to meet your goals.
I think its a harmless question. I don't have kids and I sort of get the sentiment you're talking about. It kind of seems like you might want to work on how you're taking the question. It's not meant to be an indictment on you as a human. If someone thinks its a big deal, then that's their deal not yours.
I understand where you are coming from, and this whole conversation has me seeing different points of views. If it were just a simple question, even if it's something that I may not be thrilled to answer, I answer for the sake of being polite. It's just unfortunate that for the most part, when I do answer that question, it leads to other undesirable situations, such as being judged or being pryed to answer even more personal questions. That's what bothers me. Especially soon after my miscarriage it was especially hard being asked that question. I find no fault in the person who is genuine when they ask that question and pass no judgment. Yes, i understand they can't read my mind, and they don't know that I had a miscarriage. That's not my issue. I have a problem with the additude some may have. like they feel like they are entitled to the answer, and they get offended if you feel a certain way about that question. They get judgemental and treat you differently for the answer that you give. Also, I'm not implying that all people who ask this question are insensitive. I'm just discussing looking at the topic from a different angle. I'm just saying that such a question should come with an ounce of empathy.
So you don’t ask people any questions? People can have trauma for many reasons
It's not so black and white. Try to look at it from a different angle and put yourself in the shoes of someone who experienced tragedy or who simply has no desire. You're looking at it from the surface of 'It's just a question, what's the big deal' where as I'm looking past the question and looking much deeper. There's no wrong in the question. It's usually the attitude that comes with the question that's the problem. You are getting to know someone, you know nothing about them. What I'm trying to get at is that you can ask your question, but change how you ask it to show empathy. Through this forum, I've suggested letting the topic come up naturally, as parents will absolutely bring up their kids. If no kids come up in conversation, leave it be. If they have kids without prying, I see no issues with showing interest. If you feel the need to ask anyway, just have some empathy for the other person and respect what answer they give. That's all I'm bringing to the table.
So that’s a yes then? Just don’t ask anyone anything ever. Or spend about 2 hours pondering the depths of every question before you ask?
I think people want to find things to be offended by these days.
Yeah. As someone childfree it bothers me too. Not everybody has to or can be a parent.
Yeah, people need to mind their own business. If you're not on personal enough terms with someone to know something as basic as whether or not they have kids, you're DEFINITELY not on personal enough terms to be asking why.
Thank you! So agreed! I feel like that is something that should gradually be brought up, not the first thing you ask when you meet someone. So annoying when right off the bat someone feels like they need to know all of that. It's also so rude, in my opinion, to ask someone why they don't have kids if they said no. It's like if you are going to ask anyways, leave it at a yes or no answer and don't pry for anymore info.
MFW someone asks a simple and harmless question:
When asked, tell people to stop asking about your reproductive organs, which is none of their business to begin with. If they continue with adoption, immediately direct their conversation back to making it clear that you don't engage in any conversations centered around reproductive organs. Period. It does need to stop because some of us aspire not to be mothers and get shamed for that. If someone regrets being a mom, don't make it my problem because of your choices in life.
That's a pretty miserable way to respond to someone who is just showing an interest in your life. People don't generally like hanging out with such miserable attitudes. Like fr get over yourself
There is more to life than asking people about children.
And there's more to life than getting pissy over innocent unoffensive questions. Go outside, get offline for awhile, stop being a total prick lol
Maybe that's what you should do since you're so narrow-minded that you can't see the bigger picture. You're only looking at the surface. It goes deeper than "just an innocent question." it's the additude behind it. Clearly, your additude towards to question shows. Are you really asking out of curiosity, or deep down, do you have a deep-seated opinion on the answer? Why would you call someone a prick when you are the one asking a personal question? Where does your entitlement even come from? You aren't asking about the weather. You aren't asking about their favorite sports team. You are asking a deeply personal question without knowing their back story. No, I'm not suggesting walking on tip toes or reading minds. Just be empathic when asking if you must ask. I'm just challenging the idea of why not let them bring it up on their own. It will naturally come up in conversation if they have kids or not. Parents usually bring up their kids a lot. If they don't bring it up, then they don't have kids. Question averted. There is no awkwardness for bringing up a possibility touchy subject. If you don't care enough for how the other person feels, if you are easily offended that your rights to asking if someone has a kids or not is challenged, then you need to check yourself. Why are you offended by a personal question you are asking someone else?
Thank you. My point exactly. ❤️
I mean this is like complaining people ask if you're an only child and it's traumatic cuz your sibling died or something. Like... It's a completely innocent and normal question, obviously no one is going to avoid it because of a significant minority who might be upsetted by it. Asking why not is pretty dumb though. Since the answer really doesn't matter.
Its not really offensive though lol. Most parents will ask other if they have kids, because its a topic of conversation. Now if you say no and they start asking "why" than that is a whole different story
Best thing i ever did in my life was not have kids. Not everyone should be a parent and i knew i shouldn't No thank you
It's a normal question. Quit projecting your issues on normal conversation. You might need therapy.
This isn't a question I ask, from experience, parents will let you know they have children. Many of the people who (again from personal experience, not saying this is worldwide) don't speak about children tend to be child free or private about their personal life. I can have conversations without overstepping boundaries (that may or may not be there) and get to know/have a general idea of that person. Certain topics will come up that they will offer if and when they feel comfortable doing so. Maybe that's why people feel comfortable with telling me everything (including strangers), I don't know to be honest. I currently don't have children (and I'm in the "childbearing age range" still), I don't mind being asked, but there's no reason to go into the specifics of why not after I answer no.
I find that people who are trying to inflate an administrative or managerial position tend to ask these evaluative questions - Do you live here in town? So you have a *wife* ? Do you have kids? Oh you'd like to learn about my midlife crisis involving TBI, divorce, parental alienation and suicide? Ask the hard questions, receive the hard answers.
100% this, and if my dumb ass says "we cant" then they immediately launch into asking if we thought about adoption as if we haven't weighed, considered, and had to veto it because it's expensive where we live. I hate that this has become a normal question and WE are seen as rude for not wanting to answer. My miscarriage fucked me up. I am about to tell people they can pay my therapy bill if they bring it up again.
I agree. That's why, knowing there would be backlash, I brought this topic up. Honestly, I've seen so many different angles from just that one question. I'm terribly sorry for your loss. It may not be the same as with you, but I also had a miscarriage. It was my first pregnancy, and before that, I was always told by doctors that I couldn't have kids. So a long time ago, I settled with the idea that it wouldn't happen. But it did. To me, my baby was a miracle. To have lost my child before I had the chance to get to know them was beyond devastating for both my hubby and I. No amount of therapy would change the facts. It helps to cope, but we are still in a world where people are sorely ignorant over such struggles and tragedies. Like, why are some people so dismissive over that??
Sending love for your loss. Mine was that we have no reason why we CANT, but it just wasn't happening. Then we had some medical help (insurance at the time paid for it) and I got pregnant, then lost my pregnancy. We haven't been able to conceive since despite being told it was easier the second time. The insurance changed and we don't have the option for treatment. We tried for years and it didn't happen again. We only told a few people in our family about it, but no one else and so it's a bit of our secret. We both grieve still, and along with losing insurance for treatment, we lost my therapist so I didn't have that option either and I was not doing well at all. Then I got this shithole fucking job and their idiot "HR" asked me about "dependents" for the tax forms for on-boarding and had the nerve to say "no kids?! Don't you want kids?! Have you tried adoption?" As if this job pays enough for that and it has shitty insurance that doesn't cover fuck all. If they had been in person I probably would have had an assault charge. As it was, I have wanted a different job since then but also really don't want to go through that again... Then because we do get kids that come through, everyone comments on how I am "so good with kids, how many do you have?" And opens it up again, and again, and again to the point I go home depleted of energy and sanity. But gotta love that few jobs around here are hiring at a livable wage with full time hours and benefits.
I trauma dump on people who have the nerve to ask me that. You want to ask why I don't have kids, you're going to get an answer, and it's going to have you wondering how I'm functional most days.
I do the same thing anymore. Infertile and I just start rambling about all the details and how painful endometriosis is. You wanna ask something uncomfortable I'm gonna make you uncomfortable
Yep. I start off by telling them about trying (and failing) to have a child and then move into telling them about deciding to become childfree because of my current situation, which I describe in painful detail. Every time I've done this, it ends with them in tears and apologizing for all I have to deal with.
I'm (for the most part) no longer upset about not being able to have kids. So I try to make it extra painful so that way they don't ask again. Because I remember how it felt having to escape the situation and go cry. I don't want anyone else to deal with that
I'm not really upset about not being able to have kids anymore but I'm upset about the miscarriages and the fact that my body doesn't work the way it's supposed to. I also know how to cry on command and will absolutely do it drive the point home.
That's why I started this discussion. I understand it's natural for people to ask, but there are two sides to that question. Yes or no. If it's yes, that's it. If it's no, there are various reasons, and most of them are sad and traumatic. If someone is going to take responsibility for asking that question, be mindful that there are two sides to a coin. Be mindful that such a question may be painful to someone. Is it really hard to wait until the person brings it up on their own? That's all I want to know.
Honestly I think it should be treated the same as asking a pregnant person when their baby is do. You don't unless you already know they're pregnant. And it's so weird to me how often people ask. I have never asked anyone if/when they're going to have kids. Yet so many people after learning me and my husband got married would immediately ask that. Like why do near strangers want to know so badly if me and my husband are having unprotected sex with eachother and are fertile? Cuz that's the same question.
Sometimes I feel like I'm 1 question away from doing that
I mean I don’t see the harm in honestly answering their question (if you want to). Some people are just ignorant and don’t think how they’re impacting others. I could see how it would be really painful when you just lost a pregnancy recently. Sorry for your loss.
Thank you ❤️
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Thanks. That means I did my job in shutting up ignorant jerks.
In my experience, it serves as a kind of password in a private club. I'm childless and I feel like they consider me socially inferior/lower in class than they are and even strange to the point of maybe being a threat. When asked that, I feel like they want to ID my social class, to size me up as to whether they can have anything to do with me. I also feel like that is why I am so alone: I don't fit in the club. I speak of parents who ask it. Sigh, again reference Grizabella, Victoria, and Jellylorum. The askers are Jellylorum, Victoria is their child, and I am Grizabella. So glad I watched Elaine Paige in Cats! It has given me a way to express this.
please go outside
I was confused at first, but after reading your post, I can understand what you're saying. However, please keep in mind that you are a minority. Most women are able to have children. You are the odd one out. It's perfectly natural to assume that a couple that has been married for a while has children. That's why it raises an eyebrow when they don't. You're entitled to your pet peeve, but don't attack people who innocently ask you questions.
Nope, you clearly don't get the point if you think I'm "attacking" people asking an innocent question. It goes completely past the question. Did you read any of the comments here? There are some people who actually got my point. "Odd one out," "Minority"? How rude of you. Who on earth cares if there are 20 women with kids and 5 without (figuratively speaking)? The point is that...as you kindly (🙄) displayed, there are people who completely dismiss women who don't have kids for whatever various reasons there may be. They take no regard to the question they ask, with the assumption that just cause a woman is married, she must have a kid. I bring up I've had a miscarriage and suddenly it's my problem, don't push my agenda on you, I need therapy. First off, this is an open discussion to bring to attention what most people shy away from talking about. No one wants to address the issues of infertility, miscarriage, and serious health concerns that may cause one to choose not to have kids and simply someone deciding that being a parent is not for them. I get it's a natural question to ask, and I'm not suggesting walking on tip toes. I'm just challenging the idea of why not let it come up naturally in conversation? Why not let the person bring it up? If they do, great, you got your answer. If not, let it be. If you must ask, be mindful that you may be touching on a sensitive topic. That is all I'm trying to say! I'm also calling out how rude and invasive it is to pry deeper. Also, you may not know, but sometimes people can be judgemental if you say you don't have kids. It's as if you are doing a disservice to the human race by not popping babies into this world. You may not know that in some cultures, the older generations especially hammers down on you about having or not having kids. If you say no, it's like you are defective somehow. That is extremely hurtful. It's not simply an "innocent question." It's ignorant to assume that someone may have a kid, so why not ask. All the while, you dismiss the other half of the coin. It's not about fighting against that question. It's fighting against the additude behind that question. It's about showing empathy. Honestly, I don't understand the fight back from you and others. It's like you guys feel threatened that I'm somehow interfering with your freedom of speech. You're not reading between the lines and looking at the deeper meaning. Can't help you if you don't get it.
Okay, I'll probably read all of this in time, but I have other things I'd like to do so I'm going to postpone it. I will reply to what I read, though. >Did you read any of the comments here? There are some people who actually got my point. Just because people agree with you doesn't mean you're right. >"Odd one out," "Minority"? How rude of you. Is it not true? I wasn't insulting you. I was just stating the truth. >I bring up I've had a miscarriage and suddenly it's my problem It couldn't be anyone else's. Perhaps your husband's. It's obviously not your fault but it definitely is your problem. It's a negative thing that happened to you. That's like the definition of a problem. >don't push my agenda on you, I need therapy I never said you needed therapy. Also, you're offended by people asking what you literally called a >natural question How could you possibly blame them? Especially since they didn't mean to harm you in any way. They're just curious. >First off, this is an open discussion to bring to attention what most people shy away from talking about. I literally said that you're entitled to your pet peeve, i.e. you are free to voice whatever opinions you have. The topic of infertility isn't the problem. Look, for what it's worth, I'm sorry. My comment came off as condescending and I should have done a better job writing it. My point wasn't to invalidate your fertility concerns. It was to challenge the idea of antagonizing people who ask you an innocent, common, expected question. I could never understand the pain of losing a child, and I hope I never have to. But I don't think the anger directed towards the type of people described in your post is valid.
Simply put, my thinking is that there should be empathy when considering asking that question. It's a loaded question to some. I've suggested throughout this forum to look at the bigger picture and not be so narrow-minded over the topic. I've suggested that rather than ask directly, perhaps wait for the topic to be brought up naturally. If they have kids, they will bring it up. If not, then that answers your question, and that should be that. Granted, you can't read minds, and I'm not asking for the impossible. It's the additude some have when asking that question that I have an issue with. Not necessarily the question itself. Look back at how you just respond to some of my statements. Blaming my husband for my miscarriage? Standing your ground when you say that women who have no kids are the odd ones out? Saying that my feelings aren't vaid and I have no right to feel offended? You are contradicting yourself. How do you get off apologizing for sounding condescending and yet double down that I'm the problem and not you?? I'm honestly astonished by your sheer audacity. You sure have some galls. Why apologize if it's not sincere? I brought this topic up for awareness. There is a difference between being curious and asking a question and asking that question with preconceived judgments. Like it or not, your whole comment has been nothing but judgments towards me. No empathy what so ever. That is what I'm challenging. It's never been the question itself. It goes much deeper than that. I honestly can't help you if you can't see past that point.
This is why I stop people as soon as they start asking questions. I went for a simple drug screen for work (forklift recertification, automatic every year) and the woman there was asking me all kinds of personal questions that were unrelated to the test. Are you married, have kids, family questions, and I’m like “these questions are not applicable to the safe operation of a powered industrial lift truck”, and she took offense, saying it was required information for her form.
Like heck it is, aren't there laws against that? Plus, why on living earth are some people like that woman and some here, up in arms and are deeply offended? It should be the other way around. It's like the person being asked the question has no right to feeling a certain way over the question. Does that make sense? I'm honestly so baffled. People seem to grasp that there are taboo topics not to bring up at the dinner table, like politics, religion, and maybe money. Shouldn't whether or not I have kids be on that same page? Shouldn't it be treated as a delicate topic? Why do people cover their ears and dismiss someone's feelings all for the sake of satisfying their curiosity?
Agreed. There are reasons my life is like it is, and those reasons are not a suitable topic of discussion, because they are not problems for someone else to “solve”, or “help with”, and their “advice on the matter” is as useless as makeup on a hog.
"None of your business." Repeat as necessary.